Top ten accordions
sid
I've been checking out piano accordions on eBay lately and I'm getting
overwhelmed. The list of brands reads like an Italian phone book.
The pictures might look good and the description might say "like new",
or "excellent tone", or "functions perfectly", but other than that, I
have little to tell a Hohner from a Rosetti.
What would be your list of the top ten best brands (any country of
origin)? I'm looking mostly at used instruments, so include historic
names.
A list of the bottom ten brands (junk) might be helpful too!
Thanks for any help.
sid
David Kastrup
Hohner is at both ends of the range. For quite a few brands that still
exist, the best instruments are likely from the seventies or even
earlier. Unfortunately, when they are put on Ebay, quite often those
older instruments have not been kept in good shape.
It is probably a good idea to buy an instrument from somebody who has
previously been playing it seriously. Or buy it at a price where you
can't go wrong. Problem is that you might get attached to the
instrument and then pay wagonloads of money to get it into good shape
again.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
whatsanike
"sid" <sylve...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8f9e8dd7-fb41-4b56...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Making such a list would not be helpful, since buying online an accordion
especially on ebay will likely be a frustrating experience and waste of time
and money. The new ones are probably Chinese and the used ones are mostly
being sold because they have a problem. Instead only buy what you can try
out in person first.
sid
Mafia? :-)
sid
Iam
Or buy from someone on Ebay that has a sterling reputation. I got an
excellent deal (under $500) on a Galizi & Sordoni that required
minimal spot tuning and maintenance from Guenady Lazarov. I wouldn't
hesitate to buy another one from him.
marino.michael
Will compile what I know, though buying online is a craps shoot. You
can get quality and you can get crap. What side of the Atlantic are
you on so that I can eliminate those models that only where on one
side. I have had to fix more than one "great deal" that a client
bought on e-bay or the like and ended up needing alot of work. Also
when you get into the higher quality older models they retain their
value and so you are going to pay. Also know whether you want musette
or straight tuned and be sure of what you are getting that way. You
don't want to pay to have one changed to the other as it is very
expensive to do it and get it completely right and playing properly. A
partial list is as follows:
Gola by Hohner
Morino also by Hohner
Victoria Brand from Italy
Most of the Castelfidardo Region Models under their House name and not
what they sell under other names (they won't be bad in quality
normally, but the family name always gets the best)
One that sticks out of those is the Paolo Soprano line which is very
good quality.
It is really hard to give a top ten list as there are a huge amount of
very high quality accordions that aren't made any more. Also some of
the names have been reused on junk horrible evil junk that the makers
of them should be publicly beaten for using a name that had been known
for high quality and making junk under the name just because they can
(reminds me of what is happening in the watch world these days).
Pick what type you want and at what level you want to start as you can
grow into most models though it is also possible to grow out of a more
limiting model as well.
Just my two pence worth,
Michael
Il Pasticciere
I can second lam's recommendation of Guenday Lazarov. I bought my
Scandalli Super VI from him directly via his website and couldn't have
been happier with every aspect - including the accordion! When I
decided to take up the accordion, I didn't have a clue and what I
found particularly refreshing is that Guenady was patient enough to
listen to what I thought I wanted, offered unbiased advice and
provided honest answers to my questions that were not biased toward
trying to unload something in his inventory onto me. I checked out a
number of online retailers of new and used acordions, and I really
have to say that Guenady was the only one that listened to what I
wanted. Others either completely ingnored what I said I wanted and
tried to push me into something I specifically said I did not want,
simply because they were trying to unload it, or they gave me the
strong impression they were not interested in my business because I
was not interested in buying a new Instrument of the brand they
represented.
Buying on eBay, unless you are dealing with a known accordion dealer
who also sells there, is a total crap shoot. 98% of the sellers on
eBay who are selling accordiong have no clue about what they are
selling, as evidenced alone by the "disclaimer" so many make ' I don't
know anything about accordions but ....." Yes you can get deals, but
you really are taking your chances.
The actual Top 10 brands is entirely subjective - a more interesting
question would be to ask for opinions on the top 10 models (though no
less subjective). Many "top" brands produce a range of models varying
in quaility. Then you can talk about the Scandalli Super VI or
Soprani Super VI, Giulietti Classic 127, Hohner Gola, Titano Emporor,
etc. etc.
If you aren't in a hurry, buying your first accordion can be
overwhelming, but fun at the same time - at least it was for me,
becasue I was lucky enough to find the right dealer.
Ventura
Brands don't mean much of Squat anymore - the industry is in
such a state of flux - there is not a single specific accordion
manufacturer left in Europe that can manufacture a complete
and entire accordion from raw elements on premesis
Ventura
> Also some of
> the names have been reused on junk horrible evil junk that the makers
> of them should be publicly beaten for using a name that had been known
> for high quality and making junk under the name just because they can
yeah... like Paolo Soprani for example
talk about a name that's been raped every which way but Sunday
for the last 40 years, but that had built such a huge reputation
that people still fall for it today
and (duh) is there ANYTHING about a new Super 6 that is the same
as a vintage unit from the 60's except for the Grillework?
and why would you anyone want a Victoria when you could buy
a real Titano? (the accordion they wished they were... check
out the lawsuit they lost for more details)
David Kastrup
> On Oct 18, 11:11 am, Iam <jtb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 9:15 am, sid <sylveste...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Wow. No one will guess the top ten brands? Are you afraid of the
>> > Mafia? :-)
>>
>> > sid
>>
>> Or buy from someone on Ebay that has a sterling reputation. I got an
>> excellent deal (under $500) on a Galizi & Sordoni that required
>> minimal spot tuning and maintenance from Guenady Lazarov. I wouldn't
>> hesitate to buy another one from him.
>
> I can second lam's recommendation of Guenday Lazarov. I bought my
> Scandalli Super VI from him directly via his website and couldn't have
> been happier with every aspect - including the accordion! When I
> decided to take up the accordion, I didn't have a clue and what I
> found particularly refreshing is that Guenady was patient enough to
> listen to what I thought I wanted, offered unbiased advice and
> provided honest answers to my questions that were not biased toward
> trying to unload something in his inventory onto me.
Uh, you decided to take up the accordion, and didn't have a clue, and he
sold you a Super VI?
That's sort of like going to a used car dealer without a driving license
and without a fixed idea, and leaving with a Rolls Royce.
I mean, either its state was bad, or he did not have a clue of its
price, or you are not married (or not bothered about domestic quarrel).
You probably got good value for your money, but the amount of money
would not be typical for what a beginning player would blow on a
prospective hobby right away. That's normally left for later stages.
Anyway, I just spent a ridiculously low amount of value on a
ridiculously custom-made Morino Artiste. It doesn't even have a model
name: it's just labelled "Morino". The treble side is only somewhat
weird: 4-row C system, 3 levers for directly accessing the normal and
musette sliders, and the bassoon declassement coupler (a special trick
of old Morinos).
But the bass side is the weirdest things ever. 185 buttons or something
like that (3 rows of baritone button), and weird sliders for putting in
double bass and other additional bass couplings. The weirdest sliders
of all are one sliding switch which can activate a second slider.
Depending on the position of this second slider, 12 levers of a block of
something like 40 or so are depressed (when the activating slider is in
the other position, all are depressed).
Something's wrong in this case, obviously, since the mechanism has not
been used enough and then many notes stick. I have _no_ clue what this
mechanism that selects 12 levers of a set that is normally completely
depressed is supposed to do.
My guess would be that it possibly would remove the multiplicity from
the normal bass buttons, and you can select just where in the actual
bass notes the normal bass buttons have their break. Something like
that. But the mechanism apparently has been unused for so long that it
does no longer work properly, so I can't verify my theory.
Now this thing has on the bass side actually reed plates screwed on
leather (ordinary wax in the treble, possibly not the original
equipment).
Obviously one of a kind.
Which brings us back to the original question: the problem is that when
you are talking about the top ten accordion brands, you have to be aware
that the very best ones might be custom-made, by some small shop nobody
has ever heard of because its output has been too small.
Hohner's high end instruments have for most of the time been made in
small shops in Italy. Find and pay the best artists yourself, and you
have an equally good instrument, without the brand.
David Kastrup
> On Oct 18, 3:15 pm, sid <sylveste...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Wow. No one will guess the top ten brands? Are you afraid of the
>> Mafia? :-)
>
> Will compile what I know, though buying online is a craps shoot. You
> can get quality and you can get crap. What side of the Atlantic are
> you on so that I can eliminate those models that only where on one
> side. I have had to fix more than one "great deal" that a client
> bought on e-bay or the like and ended up needing alot of work. Also
> when you get into the higher quality older models they retain their
> value and so you are going to pay. Also know whether you want musette
> or straight tuned and be sure of what you are getting that way. You
> don't want to pay to have one changed to the other as it is very
> expensive to do it and get it completely right and playing properly.
Wrong. A complete retuning is nothing you can get "completely right".
It is always a damage to the reeds. Better tuners will do less damage,
but it is not possible to do it without damage. So retuning carries a
higher price than "just" the (admittedly impressive) price tag.
> A partial list is as follows:
>
> Gola by Hohner
> Morino also by Hohner
Well, if you ask about what to buy on Ebay, Gola is pretty much no-go.
You don't buy Rolls-Royces on Ebay, do you? For oh so many reasons.
Morinos are also problematic. The older ones you get will be typically
in deteriorated state, the new ones are not well done from the start:
you have to hear my accordion maker sneer at them. He just had one
there last time I was there, and the new Morinos have lots of small
changes for the worse (for example, the grill, previously made of bent
and hammered aluminium or steel and covered with celluloid is nowadays a
piece of plastic, certainly not the same with regard to acoustics, but
still with grill decorations and stuff), and shoddy workmanship too. He
said he had several instruments of that line brought to him in the first
few years (when there actually was supposed to be factory warranty)
because people needed them fixed fast.
> Most of the Castelfidardo Region Models under their House name and not
> what they sell under other names (they won't be bad in quality
> normally, but the family name always gets the best) One that sticks
> out of those is the Paolo Soprano line which is very good quality.
Hm? It was, but the brand has been resold so many times that you can't
really rely all too much on it.
That's a problem with quite a few brand and even model names: once they
got recognized as being excellent, the brand name survived and the
quality didn't.
David Kastrup
> nah... it's just way more complicated than that
>
> Brands don't mean much of Squat anymore - the industry is in
> such a state of flux - there is not a single specific accordion
> manufacturer left in Europe that can manufacture a complete
> and entire accordion from raw elements on premesis
Depends on what you call raw elements. Reed manufacturers are usually
separate, and it is not like this had been much different at any time.
Apart from that, it would be my guess that Mengascini (which has
consolidated at least half a dozen different brands into one company)
should be able to do so more or less. Similar for Harmona. There is
one Czech company that is in a similar state I think, and of course
there are Russian producers with, uh, "consistent" quality that could
not survive if they had to buy a significant number of parts in Western
currency.
--
David Kastrup
Il Pasticciere
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi David,
It might be better to say that I bought a Scandalli Super VI, not that
he sold me one (though he did) - and share the rest of the story. At
the point that I finally made my purchase I was much better informed
and I knew exactly what I wanted - the best that I could afford. When
I began my search for an accordion, where Guenady came to the
forefront of anyone else that I had contacted, was that he took the
time to answer all my questions and fill in the gaps and put together
all the bits and pieces I had harvested off of reading on the
internet. He would answer my questions and give me information on
comparisons between different instruments and models - not based on
what was in his inventory, but from his own knowledge, experience and
general word on the street. After our initial discussion - he advised
me to continue to check around and research and not be hasty in making
a decision AND to feel free to contact him anytime with any more
questions that I might have. After talking to Guenady, I felt I had
made a friend that was far more interested in introducing me to the
world of the accordion and not just trying to meet some sort of sales
quota. At the time, he did not have the instrument I ended up
purchasing, but he did have some nice instruments that could have done
nicely. It was not until after periodically checking his inventory
that the Scandalli was listed, and it was one of the three brands/
models that I was considering, so I approached Guenady again. I agree
that for a complete, unaware novice, a Super VI is perhaps overkill
and my own "path" is not the typical or recommended one, but my own
logic was that just because I was only a beginner did not mean I had
to settle for a Yugo if I could afford better (I like your analogy to
a Rolls Royce and yes, I am single). I have a degree in music with a
minor in Piano and Organ, so I am not new to music, keyboard
instruments or "wind blown" instruments. I wanted an instrument I was
not going to grow out of and have to trade up and felt the greater
financial investment (keyword, investment - not price) would, if
nothing else, guilt me into sticking with learning to play. And I
wager that anyone on this list would agree that it is much more
encouraging and inspiring to play on a good instrument than a "make
do" instrument of lessor quality and condition. Of course it is my
instrument so I am biased, but it is a dream to play, is in near
pristine condition, and was sold to me for a price I really couldn't
pass up. It truly was a once in a lifetime opportunity and knowing
the type of person that I am, I would never have been content to
settle for anything other than what I had set my mind on. It has only
been nine months, but each day, I am even more enthusiastic and
inspired than when I first started and this instrument has to be a
significant reason.
Ventura
and then invest in having your Tech spend the time to renew
the sliders system, it'll still be a bargain <investment 2 value>
there was a trick Clockmakers used, i believe, to keep mechanism's
lubricated gently in medium sized clocks (like a mantle clock)
which was to place a small cap or jar lid with a bit of Linseed
in the chamber with just a bit of piece of rag sort of loose in
the center to wick up and present more surface area
i believe the volatile elements of fresh linseed oil made this
possible... of course you would renew it every so often and be
careful with the bit of rag
now i am thinking, if there are periods of a week or so at a time
when you do not pick up the Morino to play, would it be possible
to make a place for it on a table, with a big wood cover or something,
so you could leave the bass-works cover off and position a cap
of oil in this manner to "fume up" the bass mechanism? If
you have the room to try this maybe after a couple months
the cumulative slow effect would do the trick... you can still
play it from time to time, just store it on the table instread
of in the case
just an idea... you should be able to get a better opinion
of the Linseed oil trick from an old German clock technician!
David Kastrup wrote:
> Depends on what you call raw elements.
being able to fully craft the main shells from raw wood
having the right woods in stock and ability to kiln and age them
being able to make your own buttons and keytops from raw plastic
being able to engineer and make your own actions and action parts
having your own system of shifts and plates
being able to router your own reedblocks for high end models
building your own bellows from cardboard, cloth, and leather
and thereby
knowing what glues and stuff really do work best
having true control over the quality of the components
> Reed manufacturers are usually
> separate, and it is not like this had been much different at any time.
except for Excelsior during most of their independant existence
> Apart from that, it would be my guess that
well, not a bad guess, but the room they had in that
Dungeon of a building up on the back hill is severly
limited, so i doubt much more than the names were ported
and which one of the "M"'s was the first to bring in
those Korean Bodies, slap cheap Italian reeds in them
and try to pass them off as Italian Made accordions?
Was that the one who handled the E. Soprani's of the
"72 hour warranty" fame? or was it someone else...
i just can't remember for sure now...
Ciao
Ventura
Ventura
obviously digs his Super VI
... if you ever make the pilgimage to Castlefidardo Italy,
visit the Accordion Museum... the "keeper of the castle"
has his personal Super VI on the last pedestal as you work
your way around the museum, and if you are cool with him
and chat him up a bit he usually invites you to play it
it is one of the best i've ever squeezed, and i'd swap
my Gola to him for it and feel like a thief doing it (lol)
_________________________________________________________
regarding Mr. G. L.
i've heard good things about him too, from some
people i think are intelligent even, but i have to
tell you one thing catches me... i've just never been
able to trust someone who talks about an accordion
having a double tone chamber when it's just in fact a
single tone chamber with 2 sets of reeds in it
it's just something that puts me off immediately...
(i've seen and played a true double TC Philharmonic...
2 actual chambers, 2 sets in one chamber 3 in the other...
sounded in-freakin-credible tonally, but had Zip for guts
or dynamics or volume... i'll stick with my 960...)
i dunno... seems like, especially with high end stuff, why
gild the lily? isn't the simple awesome truth enough already
without embellishment?
or am i so hoplessly mired in the past?
is it just that everyone has to spout this "double TC"
crap because everyone else is doing it?
anyhow, he's probably a good guy and i wish him luck
with his cywa and figli stuff and it was nice he fixed
you up with a solid box
i hope you get to compare yours with the one in Italy
someday
Ciao
Ventura
snavoyosky
(snip)
_________________________________________________________
>
> regarding Mr. G. L.
>
> i've heard good things about him too, from some
> people i think are intelligent even, but i have to
> tell you one thing catches me... i've just never been
> able to trust someone who talks about an accordion
> having a double tone chamber when it's just in fact a
> single tone chamber with 2 sets of reeds in it
>
> it's just something that puts me off immediately...
> >
The terminology "double tone chamber" comes from the fact of two reed
lines in an offset chamber. There are also "single tone chambers"
whereas only one reed line is contained in the offset chamber. Until
the time of the 'single' reed line chamber, only the teminology "tone
chamber" was used.
The terminology "tone chamber" is a misnomer for the absense of the
offset 'tone' chamber is still a chamber. The term is a marketing one.
Navoyosky
David Kastrup
> well even if you end up falling in love with that artiste Morino, and
> then invest in having your Tech spend the time to renew the sliders
> system, it'll still be a bargain <investment 2 value>
From googling around and looking at the plentiful markings inside, it
would seem plausible that this accordion is one of two custom-built by
Morino for Marcel Thöni, and was later in the possession of Walter
Müller aka Walt Miller.
It's pretty well in tune right now (I think the seller said that it was
"revised" more than 10 years ago and then was sitting on the shelf in
good storage conditions without being sold). Apart from the sticky
mechanism for moving the bass button range/wraparound, the treble side
bearings seem to be a bit off-kilter, making for a somewhat noisier
movement (a hint scrapy) and possibly a bit heavier action. There might
be some split in the keyboard board, at least it seems possible when
peeking below the cover.
The treble reed slider operators can be seen in
<URL:http://home.arcor.de/david.kastrup/treble.jpg> (from left to right,
main reed, musette reeds, bassoon reed). The bass sliders in
<URL:http://home.arcor.de/david.kastrup/bass.jpg>. The upper left
slider (with two operating notches, the second one is off-picture to the
left) switches the bass division relocator mechanism. If it is on, the
bottom slider moves the bass division. In the position on the picture,
it is at its lowest setting. The slider above (4 operating notches)
puts in the alto reed. Above that are two sliders, one with its 5
notches inside of the other. You can move both at once, or just the
outer one. The outer one engages the contrabass octave, the inner one
the side bass.
> there was a trick Clockmakers used, i believe, to keep mechanism's
> lubricated gently in medium sized clocks (like a mantle clock) which
> was to place a small cap or jar lid with a bit of Linseed in the
> chamber with just a bit of piece of rag sort of loose in the center to
> wick up and present more surface area
No oil in accordions. The viscosity slows down the action, in
particular when the oil draws dust from the outside and from aluminium
wearoff.
> i believe the volatile elements of fresh linseed oil made this
> possible... of course you would renew it every so often and be careful
> with the bit of rag
Linseed would likely be the worst idea of all, since it coagulates (for
lack of the proper term).
I have an excellent accordion maker around and I'll be visiting him
tomorrow with this instrument. I hope to baffle him with the bass range
selector (I have corroborated my theory about it), though he has seen a
_lot_ of weird accordions and mechanisms.
eromlignod
Well, I don't claim to be any expert on accordion quality, but I
conducted a little informal survey to get some answers. I'm not
afraid of the Mafia. I googled up as many pictures of professional
accordion players as I could find (or until I got bored) and wrote
down what model they were playing. I focused on piano accordions (not
button boxes) that had legible logos on them.
Here is what I found after looking at about fifty of them (starting
with the most common):
Excelsior 6
Titano 5
Giulietti 4
Scandalli 4
Hohner 4
Petosa 3
Gabbanelli 2
Bellini 2
Dallapé 2
After that I include "honorable mention", since they only occured in a
picture once, but were, after all, chosen by a professional (not in
any particular order):
Paolo Soprani
Weltmeister
Brandoni
Tondesch
Verini
Lucchini
Bugari
Elka
Karpek
Tonaveri
Victoria
Marinucci
Borgna
Sonola
Don
Kansas City
tassiekate
No Pigini?
David Kastrup
> On Oct 22, 12:58 pm, eromlignod <eromlig...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Here is what I found after looking at about fifty of them (starting
>> with the most common):
>>
>> Excelsior 6
>> Titano 5
>> Giulietti 4
>> Scandalli 4
>> Hohner 4
>> Petosa 3
>> Gabbanelli 2
>> Bellini 2
>> Dallapé 2
>>
>
> No Pigini?
That's Excelsior IIRC.
--
David Kastrup
Ventura
Pigini is a family owned and operated Accordion maker
in the flatlands down the hill from Castleridardo on
the Adriatic side. They have been growing and improving
over the years as far as i can tell, and are one of the
more complete builders at this time. Several years ago
they apparently bought out CEMEX/Excelsior, moved some
of their people, machines, stock etc. to the Pigini plant
and subsequently sold the old Excelsior factory off
(to Bompezzo, i think... not sure... havn't been there
in awhile)
Pigini also builds accordions for other private label
companies like Monarch, and the Ernest Deffner company
has close ties with them for Pan and Titano i believe.
Ciao
Ventura
PS: how far are you from Fullerton in the South?
my MIDI tech buddy Lino lives down there
and Don... Elka never made Accordions themselves,
just the electronics, and the company is long
out of business... even at their best they would
never have been considered a top 10 Accordion
for the acoustic part, and would only have been
top ten organ/accordion because most of the time
there were less than 10 OrgAcc Manufacturers total (lol)
David Kastrup
> and Don... Elka never made Accordions themselves,
> just the electronics, and the company is long
> out of business... even at their best they would
> never have been considered a top 10 Accordion
> for the acoustic part, and would only have been
> top ten organ/accordion because most of the time
> there were less than 10 OrgAcc Manufacturers total (lol)
When googling around some time ago, I hit upon some Folk CDs being sold
with some artist and something like "the unique sound of his ELKA xxx".
Maybe he found the same site. So basically, it may be more about an
artist-specific electronic sound choice rather than it being produced by
something in the form factor of an accordion.
--
David Kastrup
eromlignod
http://www.sonsofitalywv.com/festival/Image17.jpg
Don
Kansas City
David Kastrup
> Here's the picture:
>
> http://www.sonsofitalywv.com/festival/Image17.jpg
Hard to figure from that whether the electronic part of the accordion is
relevant for the artist's choice or not.
--
David Kastrup
Ventura
27 pounds or so no wonder the dude is sitting
roflmao
sid
> Hard to figure from that whether the electronic part of the accordion is
> relevant for the artist's choice or not.
> --
> David Kastrup
I think Elka makes an accordion, though it may be entirely MIDI. Take
a look at the fourth item down, on this page:
http://www.petosa.com/acc/preowned/
sid
David Kastrup
Quite obvious from specs and the register switches that it contains a
4-reed acoustical.
--
David Kastrup
tassiekate
> hey Kate
>
> Pigini is a family owned and operated Accordion maker
> in the flatlands down the hill from Castleridardo on
> the Adriatic side. They have been growing and improving
> over the years as far as i can tell, and are one of the
> more complete builders at this time. Several years ago
> they apparently bought out CEMEX/Excelsior, moved some
> of their people, machines, stock etc. to the Pigini plant
> and subsequently sold the old Excelsior factory off
> (to Bompezzo, i think... not sure... havn't been there
> in awhile)
>
> Pigini also builds accordions for other private label
> companies like Monarch, and the Ernest Deffner company
> has close ties with them for Pan and Titano i believe.
>
> Ciao
>
> Ventura
>
I have a small 5 row chromatic Pigini I (coincidently) bought second
hand off ebay and it's a sweety. I didn't realise they were
synonymous with Excelsior.
Kate
Alan Moore
Nor Crucianelli -- as played by Frankie Yankovic and his sideman...
I don't know how far back his picture collection went. There are a
couple of Scandalli players whose sound I like, but the instruments
are, alas, no longer available in the quality they once were. The same
applies to some (if not most) of the other makers on the list.
Alan Moore
David Kastrup
> well even if you end up falling in love with that artiste Morino,
> and then invest in having your Tech spend the time to renew
> the sliders system, it'll still be a bargain <investment 2 value>
Been at the accordion maker. The wax on the treble side is quite in
need of replacement (you can look right through at a number of plates)
and other stuff needs to be done. Probably due to the wax, the
accordion was losing quite a bit of air, and somebody considered it a
good idea to try fixing this by gluing the bass side into the bellows.
Well, the accordion maker got that out without damage again.
Worse is that somebody considered greasing the bass mechanism a good
idea. With acidic grease, so some aluminum salts have blossomed out.
On the treble side, this is pretty much a stock 5-octave, 4-row
C-system, 4-reed musette-tuned 1960 Morino (no combination register
switches, instead one operates the 3 reed sliders through thumb levers).
The bass side, however... No problem with wax there. Reed plates
mounted on leather, partly handmade (rather than handfinished as the
rest) reeds. The mechanism
<URL:http://home.arcor.de/david.kastrup/thoeni.jpg> is apparently
custom-made to specs from Maurice Thöni. According to his 83-year old
daughter in Zurich (who was delighted to hear about the instrument again
of which she lost track when a former pupil of Thöni, Ruedi Ruchti, died
with the instrument in his possession), this has been constructed and
built by Morino himself. Since Morino reportedly retired at Hohner in
1956 (and died in 1961), and the serial number according to Hohner
indicates a 1960 instrument, I have written to her with a plea for some
more information. One earlier instrument of Thöni (exhibited in a
museum) shows a similar mechanism, so maybe the instrument was merely
built from Morino's earlier blueprints. It is quite definitely the last
instrument Thöni (a Swiss folk music artist, composer and arranger of
some renown) himself played.
Actually, it would have been a bargain even for a stock Morino. I
consider it likely that nobody wanted it because of the inscrutable
controls and/or sticky basses.
The accordion maker will take an eternity for a complete overhaul (in
the course of which he will refit the treble side with leather rather
than wax, necessitating some hardwood reinforcements in the lower octave
reedblock where the reed chamber separators are too slim, so that the
screws will have proper hold and do no damage), including valves, reed
polishing and preservation, retuning, pallet felts, readjustment and
cleansing, a complete case job and so on. I can expect to have it back
by the end of April... A serious try of my patience.
But then I can boast a rather unique 190 bass Morino of unusual bass
versatility and rather impressive sound. And a history of its own.
With regard to playability it is just a 4-row, and in the MII, the
diminuished chords are offset by one row (meaning you can get a full
seventh chord by depressing the usual fifth-less seventh chord together
with the immediately adjacent fifth-less diminuished chord from the
dominant).
My accordion maker told me considering my current skills and the history
of the instrument, that it would make more sense for me to adapt to the
instrument rather than the other way round.
I can see his point. So no scheduled changes in the controls.
--
David Kastrup
whatsanike
"tassiekate" <kate...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:085131e4-76ff-456c...@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
(IM) Nothing is synonymous with Excelsior. Excelsior doesn't exist any more
Pigini bought the name and makes a look-alike. Excelsior itself went through
mostly bad changes since its founding.
hvdveen
Their website, though, does ...
http://www.excelsior-accordions.it
More accordion brands can be found on: http://accordeon.startpagina.nl
Regards.
Hillebrand
"whatsanike" <accord...@mindspring.com> schreef in bericht
news:QIudnU2Agq3AqYHU...@earthlink.com...
eromlignod
> Too bad Excelsior doesn't exist anymore.
>
> Their website, though, does ...
>
> http://www.excelsior-accordions.it
>
> Regards.
>
> Hillebrand
That's a Pigini. As whatsanike said, they bought the Excelsior
*name*, not the factory.
Don
Kansas City
hvdveen
One thing I DO know. I do hope the Pigini's will go on and make Excelsior
accordions. The reason is simple. I have played on the concert instruments
of both brands. And I do prefer the sound and feel of the Excelsior. Of
course: realted to the music I like to play (baroque). Which is of course a
matter of opinion.
Regards.
Hillebrand
"eromlignod" <eroml...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:e68e080e-b1f7-46d4...@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
whatsanike
"hvdveen" <H.J....@net.HCC.nl> wrote in message
news:491dd9a6$0$16743$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...
> Might be.
>
> One thing I DO know. I do hope the Pigini's will go on and make Excelsior
> accordions. The reason is simple. I have played on the concert instruments
> of both brands. And I do prefer the sound and feel of the Excelsior. Of
> course: realted to the music I like to play (baroque). Which is of course
> a matter of opinion.
>
> Regards.
>
> Hillebrand
>
Len Killick
> "hvdveen" <H.J.V...@net.HCC.nl> wrote in message
As far as I understand it, so far the Excelsior instruments and
business is still run separately - that is Pigini did not just buy the
name they bought the complete business - all of the Excelsior models
are still available and there are different personel in italy
responsible for each brand. Outside of italy you will probably find
only one contact point in each country for the two brands and the two
are marketed together for distribution.
whatsanike
"Len Killick" <l...@killick.de> wrote in message
news:d1414c8c-d336-4986...@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Interesting point. By the time Pigini took it over, it was already sort of
garbage-like. They seem to have made some improvements, but it is a shadow
of its former self, from what I have seen. People bring me every sort of
accordion, but I am sure I have not seen every example of Excelsior. I have
formed these opinions on the basis of the 20 or so I have seen, produced
over about 80 years at various periods.
Seamus McDermottaugh
> Hi
>
> I've been checking out piano accordions on eBay lately and I'm getting
> overwhelmed. The list of brands reads like an Italian phone book. The
> pictures might look good and the description might say "like new", or
> "excellent tone", or "functions perfectly", but other than that, I have
> little to tell a Hohner from a Rosetti.
>
> What would be your list of the top ten best brands (any country of
> origin)? I'm looking mostly at used instruments, so include historic
> names.
>
> A list of the bottom ten brands (junk) might be helpful too!
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> sid
On Ebay, you never really know what you're getting, unless you can find
one nearby and go and play it. I can tell you the brands I look for and
the ones I avoid.
When I'm looking, I'm expecting that the box will need a complete
overhaul, mainly because in my price range, the boxes need a complete
overhaul. :-)
I like the following brands:
Maugein (french button and piano accordions)
Dallape (older ones. Quality is really remarkable).
Paolo Soprani (B/C diatonic boxes, or any half step config).
Beltuna
Pigini
Philharmonic (some were Dallapes branded as Philharmonic)
Scandalli
Alfred Arnold or Ernst Arnold (bandoneons)
Any of the San Francisco accordions (Colombo, Galleatze & Sons, Guerrini
SF only models).
PierMaria (not to be confused with Sofi Maria, which is Chinese, I think).
I look, but I've never really made any purchases on Ebay. Always some
funny business at the last second of the auction. I just don't trust
thier process, not to mention the fact that you can't examine the box
until you've purchased it. And the shipping charges kill ya.
I buy locally, mostly through word of mouth, from other musicians, estate
sales, craigslist, thrift shops, goodwill. You'd be surprised to see
where accordions crop up. Police auctions. STORAGE LOCKER sales. Note
that that is capitalized. Storage locker sales (rent-a-locker abandoned
or past due rent sales have been a real bonanza) worth checking out.
Found four Galleazi & Sons accordions in pristine condition in such a
sale. Four of them.
I think that 90% of the accordions you see out there are junk. Old,
basement moldy key-chipped wax-hardened, leather curled, yogurt
containing rust buckets suitable only for parts. But there are those
gems.
I guess I'm hooked.
Seamus
Mike
<fbf27774-cdc7-4d17...@u40g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
eromlignod <eroml...@aol.com> wrote:
Don't forget CROWN Accordions which were made in Chicago up into the
70's I think. They were great boxes with a wonderful musette. They
wren't fetherweights either so a BS was easy.
--
Mike
Ventura
> 70's I think. They were great boxes with a wonderful musette. They
> wren't fetherweights either so a BS was easy.
Crown did spec high quality reeds in their
contracting orders, even on student models,
as well as higher end woods... a used Crown
is a better bet than many other names
but they also were just a nameplate, the
accordions ordered from Italy with the CROWN name
Ciao
Ventura
mads...@gmail.com
> sales, craigslist, thrift shops, goodwill. You'd be surprised to see
> where accordions crop up. Police auctions. STORAGE LOCKER sales. Note
> that that is capitalized. Storage locker sales (rent-a-locker abandoned
> or past due rent sales have been a real bonanza) worth checking out.
> Found four Galleazi & Sons accordions in pristine condition in such a
> sale. Four of them.
http://www.cwsmarketing.com/la/la-county-online-auction-june29-july1-2015.html
ike milligan
Iam
Excelsior960
> >
> Fantastic collection. Wonder whose it was?
when you were on the west coast? He had an eclectic
service and sale shop in his (gated, walled) Mansion
up in the Hollywood Hills.
Art Van D sold off his "Spare" accordions through him
well i recall the mix and level of boxes he had in
stock the time i visited him, and this collection
sounds just like the kind of grouping he kept around
dunno how long ago he died, but maybe it was just
his estate finally getting liquidated, or siezed
after decades of tax issues and sold for the Govt.
just guessin' but i don't know of anyone else around there
with that kind of stash
ciao
Ventura
ike milligan
capt.ac...@gmail.com
I'll point out too another way of coming unstuck on a sight unseen purchase. Most Italian makers have made 'ladies' piano accordions, some with stupidly narrow keys. This is very hard to pick from a photo, but it's always possible to ask the seller. 20mm is the standard full sized white key width. 18mm is probably ok, but any less is getting very narrow. Peter Anderson (Melbourne Australia).
Ike Milligan
models."
The Excelsior company changed hands more than once, and during that
period some rather bad accordions were made under that brand name. In
the 1920's from New York. their accordions were very good, and their
reputation was based on reliable quality and components. They produced a
large number of above average instruments, at affordable prices. only
the ones that were custom made, were of top quality. If they had tried
to make everything top quality with the cream of the crop reeds, they
would not have been able to saturate the market and would not have
earned the trust of thousands of players, due to the daunting logistical
task they would have faced. The apex was reached in the 1940's with the
4 rocker switch models, and the earlier of those are better than the
later ones.
Then the popular multi-switch design was adopted (made in Italy) and
aggressively marketed, and they could produce more above-average
accordions than absolutely top-notch ones. During that time they started
like so many manufacturers, using the foam-backed key valve pads, which
disintegrated after a decade or so.
The company seems to have changed hands after that, and the mechanical
parts were badly made, but whoever was making them seems to have been
using the old stock of pretty good reeds.
Quality went down further when the brand was bought by a large Italian
company, I think Pigini who started improving on the mechanics again,
but put essentially garbage reeds in it, I do not not if the reeds being
used in them have improved since the last one I saw, but it is just an
accordion shaped like an Excelsior. There is no Excelsior now; please
correct me if I am wrong.
"Most Italian makers have made 'ladies' piano accordions, some with
stupidly narrow keys. This is
very hard to pick from a photo, but it's always possible to ask the
seller. 20mm is the standard full sized white key width."
17" to just under 19 inches from the outer edge of the F key to the
other extremity of the A key. I would not confuse the seller by asking
about the width of individual keys. Many thousands of children's 120
bass accordions were made which are much smaller than lady's size and
all these have 2 sets of treble reeds tuned an octave apart, and 4 sets
of bass reeds. Seeing a photo of one of those I could tell you instantly
that is what it is.
Then there were Hohner accordions with 34 and 37 full-size keys which
had two sets tuned musette with often a lower octave set, and usually 5
sets of bass reeds.
Then there were also accordions with 4 sets of treble reeds and a lot of
switches, which had smaller than 18" keyboards made for small people.
Ike Milligan
2. Lady's size is 41 keys, 18 inch, however, 18-1\2" -- I have in mind a
Lakeside re-branded Hohner which I own with a palm switch, LMM 3/5 sets
of reeds.
Also about a 17-1/2" Rivoli LMM with 5 treble switches and a bass switch.
Lo Duca fostered a 4/5 "Petit Grand" with several bass switches and
about 10 treble switches that was smaller than lady's size.
IMHO there are no absolutes.
The annoying 2/4 children's 120 bass could have as small as 14" 41 keys.
These have a distinctive depressing look, although the makers tried to
make them look different.
trfu...@yahoo.com
Ike Milligan
> One of the top professional accordions made in New York City up until the mid-1950's was the ACE accordion. Unmatched in quality and sound
>
factory as Giulietti.
colinho...@gmail.com
colinho...@gmail.com
Bugari Armando Beltrami Fratelli Crosio. The Fratelli Crosio is the best.
Ike Milligan
from a knowledgeable expert and not just go out and buy from a store or
an online listing. Brand names are only useful to experts as indications
of what to avoid. An accordion from a good brand could turn out to be
garbage.
Ike Milligan
kinds. Self-deluded or crooks. If you have never played a topnotch
accordion, you would not know the difference, anyway.