Value of a Conn organ
Dwain Lee
I don't know about Conn organs, but I don't think you're going to like the
responses you'll probably get. My mother has what, for its time, was an
absolute top-of-the line, state of the art Gulbransen organ of similar
vintage sitting in her living room that she'd kill to get $100 for. She'd
probably consider $50, just so she didn't have to dust it any more.
Dwain Lee
Richard H. Flickinger
condition. Approx. age 20+ years, but still working order?
Thanks,
Rich Flickinger
rflic...@mac.com
pianoguy
> What would be the fair market value of a Conn Artist
> 720 organ in good condition. Approx. age 20+ years,
> but still working order?
Old electronic organs with the exception of Hammond B3s are much like old TV
sets...they're worth what ever someone will pay but I would be surprised if you even
find a buyer. Since you say it's in working condition possibly you could do a good
deed by donating it to a local church or nursing home.
--
pianoguy
return email disabled
Al
> condition. Approx. age 20+ years, but still working order?
I can't help but feel that the clue to the reason for this post is included
in the title... I could be wrong, and if so will ahppily rescind the
insinuation.......
Al
no offence intended
imagin...@my-deja.com
"Richard H. Flickinger" <rflic...@mac.com> wrote:
> What would be the fair market value of a Conn Artist 720 organ in good
> condition. Approx. age 20+ years, but still working order?
I love these old "Shopping Mall" electronic organs (they used to be
sold in Mall music stores), and I know a few people who collect them.
However, they're worth between $0 and $100, unless you happen to have
some of the rarer conn acceessories: the chimes, or the "pipe" speaker
resonators. A Conn collector may give you a couple of hundred for these.
You'd have trouble donating it to a school or church! (We used to get
folks trying to doante them to our community center all the time).
I'd put an ad in the paper asking $50, but you should take any offer
that comes along! At least let it go into the hands of someone who
appreciates it.
Also take a look at the classifieds at http://www.theatreorgans.com/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
dn...@racc2000.com
practice!!!!!!!!
Someone sold a slew of those up here in NW Michigan to the churches and
I have had to play on my share of them..........EEEEEEYYYYYYYYEEEEWWWWWW
Larry
>sold in Mall music stores), and I know a few people who collect them.
If I remeber correctly, the Conn 720 was a 25 pedal console organ (two full 66
note manuals) - a theater style organ. Still, it isn't worth much. Conn used
independent oscillators, and each note had to be tuned periodically. It was a
nightmare even in the 70's. Also some parts are no longer available.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Http://www.pianosinc.net
Richard Huggins
Given how much you know about all sorts of musical stuff, I've decided you
are 116 years old or so. Thought you'd want to know. If I've missed it by a
few years either direction, oh well...
As for Conns, "back when" they were considered fairly decent organs, in the
sense that anything that moved us out of Hammonds was thought to be decent.
I remember a time when a tube exploded inside one just after I finished
playing it..what an experience! But tone-wise they generally are not very
appealing, that's for sure.
To the one who asked its value, I agree with the others: if you can get
someone to take it and move it out for you, you've gotten pretty good value.
(Please don't donate to a nursing home or a church. In the first place, some
nursing homes have good musicians in them who would hate to have to play it;
in the second place, no self-respecting church should agree to accept it)
Richard
pianoguy
"Richard Huggins" wrote:
> Larry,
>
> Given how much you know about all sorts of musical stuff, I've decided you
> are 116 years old or so. Thought you'd want to know. If I've missed it by a
> few years either direction, oh well...
==========================================================
Why are you picking on Larry? I know for a fact that he's not a day over 74.
Larry
>
>Given how much you know about all sorts of musical stuff, I've decided you
>are 116 years old or so.
Did I get it wrong about the Conn? I could have sworn the 720 was a console.
Rick Clark
>I love these old "Shopping Mall" electronic organs (they used to be
>sold in Mall music stores), and I know a few people who collect them.
Yes, and one day some creative young pop musician will find a way to
make them cool, and we will have a little revival.
I believe Leonard Cohen has done a record or two using a programmed
Baldwin Fun Machine or somesuch for the backing tracks. One of this
century's great pop songwriters, but probably "too good" for
mass-market taste. Like the man said: "I'm just like Leonard Cohen: no
one ever listens to me."
Now where's that Cha-Cha button......
Rick Clark
Don
wrote:
>>I love these old "Shopping Mall" electronic organs (they used to be
>>sold in Mall music stores), and I know a few people who collect them.
>
>
>If I remeber correctly, the Conn 720 was a 25 pedal console organ (two full 66
>note manuals) - a theater style organ. Still, it isn't worth much. Conn used
>independent oscillators, and each note had to be tuned periodically. It was a
>nightmare even in the 70's. Also some parts are no longer available.
I used to work with a local Conn dealer, teaching, demos and stuff.
Conn organs were not a "nightmare." Most never needed tuning, even
after 20 years. Any local TV or radio repairman can work on one.
They were great for the "theatre organ" sound. Even George Wright was
a Conn fan.
The problem is with any old electronic item, technology bypasses it.
However, like LPs, some older "analog" instruments simply SOUND
better/warmer than newer digital instruments. The first twenty-years
of Allen digital organs drive me NUTS!!! I had to play one last
weekend for a wedding. It was big, expensive and sounded
HORRIBLE...that digital noise grates on my nerves and always has!
D*
Remembering Shadow 3-Years Later
http://www.calldon.com/shadow.htm
Don
organs:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:41:24 -0600, Richard Huggins
<hugg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>As for Conns, "back when" they were considered fairly decent organs, in the
>sense that anything that moved us out of Hammonds was thought to be decent.
>I remember a time when a tube exploded inside one just after I finished
>playing it..what an experience!
I began playing Conn organs around 1968. I taught for the dealer and
demo-ed the organs. I currently own a three-manual Conn which was
originally sold to a local church 30 years ago. I know of several
church installations still used regularly. I have NEVER heard of a
tube exploding inside of one.
Even if a tube DID explode inside of an organ, the problem would not
be with the organ but rather with the manufacturer of the tube.
Relating the two is like saying, "I had a tire blow on my Chevy which
proves that Chevys are bad automobiles."
Sorry, there is no relation there.
>But tone-wise they generally are not very
>appealing, that's for sure.
Right...I guess that is why George Wright, Don Baker and other THEATRE
organ stars recorded multiple LPs on various Conn organs. That was
because of their superior "theatre organ" sounds...as opposed to the
all-flute-Hammond.
>(Please don't donate to a nursing home or a church. In the first place, some
>nursing homes have good musicians in them who would hate to have to play it;
>in the second place, no self-respecting church should agree to accept it)
Gosh Richard...were you born with this condescending attitude or did
you acquire it along with your virtually-useless organ-performance
degree???
I think your halo is on too tight.
Jon Parker
> The first twenty-years
> of Allen digital organs drive me NUTS
That's too bad. I happen to like them. A few years ago I did the
Saint-Saens "Organ" symphony on an Allen digital. Granted, I would have
prefered pipes, but I guess I gotta get what I can take, and I'd rather play
an Allen organ then an old upright peice of piano junk.
--
Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist
Denver Colorado USA
--
Richard Huggins
ME on this newsgroup like they do others! Do I qualify for the RMMP decoder
ring now? Huh? Huh???
> From: Don <calldo...@earthlink.net>
>
> Gosh Richard...were you born with this condescending attitude or did
> you acquire it along with your virtually-useless organ-performance
> degree???
Don,
I will disclaim this much: I could have/should have made a distinction
between Conns having theater organ sounds or features and those that did
not. I did not play any Conn theater-type organs, to my recollection. Of the
Conns I played, every word I said I still hold to.I wouldn't want any of
those donated to a njursing home, but by all means--if Conn made a good
theater organ, heck, truck it on down there. (But no, no churches need 'em.)
Other than that, Bubba, you never heard me infer any superiority of
Hammond's flute sounds. You goofus, I said just the opposite. I also never
said it was Conn's fault that the tube exploded. It just happened to be a
Conn I was playing when it happened; I have no idea where the fault was. The
anecdote was shared only because talk of Conns made me think of it.
As for my useless organ performance degree, if I had one (I don't) you would
have no idea, now would you, how worthless it was. But by way of info to you
and bragging to anyone else, I was classically trained in the organ, by
three superb teachers, including Wilma Jensen, concert organist; Gale Enger,
Princeton Choir College; and a wonderful teacher named Dubert Dennis. I play
many styles of music, from classical to pop-theaterical, and I play them
very well. I am supremely confident and flexible, a superb organ accompanist
and improvisationalist. I have written organ arrangements for publication.
And it should be clear by these statements that my Bombarde is MUCH bigger
than yours!!!
Richard
Rick Clark
>As for my useless organ performance degree, if I had one (I don't) you would
>have no idea, now would you, how worthless it was. But by way of info to you
>and bragging to anyone else, I was classically trained in the organ, by
>three superb teachers, including Wilma Jensen, concert organist; Gale Enger,
>Princeton Choir College; and a wonderful teacher named Dubert Dennis. I play
>many styles of music, from classical to pop-theaterical, and I play them
>very well. I am supremely confident and flexible, a superb organ accompanist
>and improvisationalist. I have written organ arrangements for publication.
>And it should be clear by these statements that my Bombarde is MUCH bigger
>than yours!!!
I mean, REALLY!
But personally, I just thank God no one has thought to insult
*accordian* yet....
Rick Clark
Don
<hugg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>And to think that just yesterday I was feeling low, that no one would insult
>ME on this newsgroup like they do others! Do I qualify for the RMMP decoder
>ring now? Huh? Huh???
>
>> From: Don <calldo...@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Gosh Richard...were you born with this condescending attitude or did
>> you acquire it along with your virtually-useless organ-performance
>> degree???
>
>Don,
>
>I will disclaim this much: I could have/should have made a distinction
>between Conns having theater organ sounds or features and those that did
>not.
FYI...there was little, if any, distinction in the sound, only slight
variations in voicings of the two styles of instruments, and the
addition of the vox.
>I did not play any Conn theater-type organs, to my recollection. Of the
>Conns I played, every word I said I still hold to.
So you just DON'T LIKE the sound of a Conn organ.
>I wouldn't want any of
>those donated to a njursing home,
Well...I received a call from a friend who has sold pianos/organs in
Dallas for over 30 years. She had sold a Wurlitzer electronic organ
to a lady back around 15 years ago. That lady now lives in a nice,
very upscale retirement community and had donated her Wurlitzer to the
place where she lived.
My friend wanted ME to play a dedication concert on it. I went down
to practice and familiarize myself with it. Needless to say (brag,
brag) the audience LOVED ME...THEY REALLY LOVED ME!!! Since then, I
have performed at least 10-15 times on that organ. They always fill
the house and request that I play an additional 15 minutes.
Retirement communities/Nursing homes/Senior citizen centers LOVE to be
entertained by outsiders. Many have resident musicians, as you
pointed out, who also play the instruments. Don't limit anyone who
has a gift...just because that gift doesn't fit your personal tastes.
>but by all means--if Conn made a good
>theater organ, heck, truck it on down there. (But no, no churches need 'em.)
Why not? Not all churches embrace the same style of music! Many
churches have moved to use broader styles of music yet find themselves
stuck with an expensive, very limited instrument...which they uses
much less often than in the past.
>Other than that, Bubba, you never heard me infer any superiority of
>Hammond's flute sounds. You goofus, I said just the opposite.
I did not imply that you inferred any such thing. I simply made a
comment on the Hammond flute sound.
>I also never
>said it was Conn's fault that the tube exploded. It just happened to be a
>Conn I was playing when it happened; I have no idea where the fault was. The
>anecdote was shared only because talk of Conns made me think of it.
However...the way it was stated made it sound that way!
>As for my useless organ performance degree, if I had one (I don't) you would
>have no idea, now would you, how worthless it was.
ALL organ degrees are WORTHLESS!!! I always wonder what a music major
would do with two specific degrees..."Theory" and "Organ."
Ya can't get a job with either. (I'm ducking now.)
> But by way of info to you
>and bragging to anyone else, I was classically trained in the organ, by
>three superb teachers, including Wilma Jensen, concert organist; Gale Enger,
>Princeton Choir College; and a wonderful teacher named Dubert Dennis.
Good for you!!! You probably use BOTH feet on the pedals. But do you
know where the "auto-chord" button is?
>I play
>many styles of music, from classical to pop-theaterical, and I play them
>very well.
BOTH styles WELL??? That is rare.
> I am supremely confident and flexible, a superb organ accompanist
>and improvisationalist.
AMEN. If you can read "charts" I can get you some work.
>I have written organ arrangements for publication.
So have most of us here...but, AMEN anyway.
>And it should be clear by these statements that my Bombarde is MUCH bigger
>than yours!!!
Now THEM'S fightin' words, Mister! PROVE IT!!!
(HA HA HA HA HA HA)
Check out www.northtexaschapter.com
You might get a kick out of it.
Don
wrote:
QUESTION: What's the definition of an OPTIMIST???
ANSWER: An accordion player with a beeper.
Larry
>>than yours!!!
>
>
Don't you guys *dare* start pulling your Bombardes out. We don't want to have
to listen to the screams should one of you only find a piccolo......
Rick Clark
>>
>>But personally, I just thank God no one has thought to insult
>>*accordian* yet....
>QUESTION: What's the definition of an OPTIMIST???
>
>
>
>
>ANSWER: An accordion player with a beeper.
Oh, well, at least *bagpipe* is well-liked...
But as to the above, by my definition:
Optimist: expects the best but is usually wrong
Pessimist: expects the worst but is usually wrong
Cynic: expects the worst but is usually right (synonomous with
"realist")
Rick Clark
Trey Behan
>I always wonder what a music major
>would do with two specific degrees..."Theory" and "Organ."
>
>Ya can't get a job with either. (I'm ducking now.)
Then I'll aim lower:) . My Bachelor's and Graduate work was in Theory, and I
wouldn't change this decision if I could. In the pop/jazz/session work I did, I
was always the guy who could write the section charts, come up with the
arrangement, identify the chord changes and inversions, and improvise
believable solos based on elements of the work at hand.
Theory training also enabled me to play five instruments, thus enhancing my
ability to "get a job."
When working with classical players as a conductor, I was able to assist with
interpretation based on form, and help them with a "road map" of what they were
initially playing as stenography.
I agree that a music degree called "Music Theory" sounds as silly as mine does
in abbreviation (B.M.). And I wish sometimes I had concentrated more on
performance training. But I can honestly say that my choice has never held me
back in terms of employment or usefulness.
As for organs, Organ Majors, Conns, etc...well...I just thank heaven for the
B-3 to redeem the lot:) (I'M ducking now)!
Trey Behan
Richard Huggins
artist...oops, sorry...a CONN artist to come play it, so much the better!
Or, in this particular case, a DON artist!
CONN's are not fine for churches. These lips say they never will be. There
are affordable options from the two leading church organ companies--Allen
and Rogers, with Allen being my personal preference--for almost any size
church. They make, for example, self-contained organs (speakers in the
cabinet, jacks for external speakers if needed) that are great for small
situations.
(Furthermore, most Allen and Rogers organs accomodate MIDI---playable using
the organ's own keyboard and sounding through the organ's [usually superior]
audio system but able to draw MIDI sounds from any external tone generator
or from a built-in one that both companies offer, or both--meaning that
there are no true limitations to them.)
But if a church has zero budget for an organ, but has someone who could
figure out/play a CONN if one were there, and someone wants to donate a CONN
in good condition to the church, and if Mars and Venus are in a certain
alignment, then it might be okay. (:>)
Richard
P.S. to Don:
1. Yes, I know where the auto-chord button is, or at least I know what to do
with it when I find it. You deposit a quarter and it vibrates the bench for
15 minutes. Oh wait, that's the auto-massage button, a feature found on the
lounge models only....sorry.
2. I can read charts. This "work" you can get for me, does it have anything
to do with french fries?
Don
<hugg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Okay....CONN's are fine for nursing homes. And if you can get a con
>artist...oops, sorry...a CONN artist to come play it, so much the better!
>Or, in this particular case, a DON artist!
>
>CONN's are not fine for churches. These lips say they never will be.
Well...CONN organs have not been manufactured for over 15 years.
Technology is completely different now.
I give a few lessons to a "senior" lady who owned a Hammond X-77 or
something like that. She lives at a nice Presbyterian community where
they have an older Conn organ. The organ is in excellent shape and
sounds like a Conn...as it should.
Her main complaint is that it doesn't "sound like" her Hammond...so
she doesn't like it. I think it sounds great, just like a good Conn
organ. I guess Hammonds sound great for Hammonds...but they don't
sound like Conns.
Allens also have a certain sound. If you like an Allen sound then you
probably don't like Conn sounds or Hammond sounds or Baldwin sounds.
For 25 years, my home church in Tennessee had a huge three-manual Conn
theatre organ with four huge speaker cabinets installed. Put that
Leslie on slow and that thing sounded great, for a Conn. It didn't
sound like a digital Allen of the same era...thank God! But it DID
have a broad, majestic, full sound...when played correctly, as most
organs do.
The organist loved it. However, when I would go home and play for a
service, they said that the organ sounded "different." They said it
was because men play differently from women...which is true in most
cases. YES...a CONN can sound fine is the RIGHT PERSON (me) is
playing it!!!
>There
>are affordable options from the two leading church organ companies--Allen
>and Rogers, with Allen being my personal preference--
ALLEN??? Talk about professional CON-artists? Talk about overly
aggressive? Talk about condescending? How many of the company sales
guys do you know???
>(Furthermore, most Allen and Rogers organs accomodate MIDI---
Also a technology not available 15-20 years ago.
They still sound so DIGITAL!!! (But better than the first
generations of the lines.)
>P.S. to Don:
>1. Yes, I know where the auto-chord button is, or at least I know what to do
>with it when I find it. You deposit a quarter and it vibrates the bench for
>15 minutes. Oh wait, that's the auto-massage button, a feature found on the
>lounge models only....sorry.
If it is a lounge model, it is probably a B-3.
>2. I can read charts. This "work" you can get for me, does it have anything
>to do with french fries?
Heck...you know the company already. <gr>
D*
You say: "There are persons who have no money," and you turn to the law. But the law is not a breast that fills itself with milk.
Nothing can enter the public treasury for the benefit of one citizen or one class unless other citizens and other classes have been forced to send it in.
The law can be an instrument of equalization only as it takes from some persons and gives to other persons. When the law does this, it is an instrument of plunder.
- - - Frederic Bastiat
With this in mind, examine the...subsidies...guaranteed jobs...relief and welfare schemes.... You will find that they are always based on legal plunder, organized injustice.
Richard Huggins
> ALLEN??? Talk about professional CON-artists? Talk about overly
> aggressive? Talk about condescending? How many of the company sales
> guys do you know???
I was going to let this off-topic thread die, but....Don, oh Don.....you
challenged me.
I know the Texas guys VERY well, and they are legit and two very nice guys,
as well. You couldn't find two lower-key guys amidst the Allen corps of
dealers. They are very knowledgable and professional. Their installations
are magnificent. I can suggest a small baroque installation in a Lutheran
church north of Dallas that will permanently irradicate your notion of a
dry, digital sound. If you want the reference, let me know.
As for the rest of your message...it's surprising how different the same
organ can sound from player to player. Creative and judicious use of
registration is the biggest difference; the better organists do that sort of
thing better. I say this about pianos as well as organs: find out what that
particular instrument does BEST and stick with that. For example, no point
using mixtures if they are unduly harsh, no matter how much you might wish
you could.
I suspect that some of the time you utilize your theatrical techniques and
even some of the chord spellings to "enhance" the church harmonies. I
confess that I do (just give me a whiff of "Heaven Came Down and Glory
Filled My Soul" and it's off to the roller rink...). Used judiciously they
can be effective, and particularly in combination with an organ that has
tonal characteristics that can support such a style.
In the same way, I'll utilize classical concert techniques when appropriate
to devise some exciting hymn intros and such. These things lift the average
organ contribution to something more extraordinary, and it's a little
surprising how much the otherwise untrained congregant recognizes and
appreciates the contribution.
Anyway, speaking again to the organ sounding "different" when you play it,
here's a thought to make you gasp: What if they said it sounded the SAME!!
Ouch--how cruel!!!
Richard
Don
<hugg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From: Don <calldo...@earthlink.net>
>
>> ALLEN??? Talk about professional CON-artists? Talk about overly
>> aggressive? Talk about condescending? How many of the company sales
>> guys do you know???
>
>I was going to let this off-topic thread die, but....Don, oh Don.....you
>challenged me.
>
>I know the Texas guys VERY well, and they are legit and two very nice guys,
>as well. You couldn't find two lower-key guys amidst the Allen corps of
>dealers. They are very knowledgable and professional. Their installations
>are magnificent. I can suggest a small baroque installation in a Lutheran
>church north of Dallas that will permanently irradicate your notion of a
>dry, digital sound. If you want the reference, let me know.
Nationally, they do not always fit your mold, as the Dallas guys.
Some of them really annoy some church people around the country.
And the organ sound varies from installation to installation...but you
already know that.
However, those '70s, first generation digitals SUCKED!!! (pardon my
expressive language.) I played them and even demo'ed for a dealer.
>As for the rest of your message...it's surprising how different the same
>organ can sound from player to player. Creative and judicious use of
>registration is the biggest difference; the better organists do that sort of
>thing better.
Thank you...er...AMEN!
>I suspect that some of the time you utilize your theatrical techniques and
>even some of the chord spellings to "enhance" the church harmonies.
Yep...that always throws them into smiles...or confusion.
> I
>confess that I do (just give me a whiff of "Heaven Came Down and Glory
>Filled My Soul" and it's off to the roller rink...).
AMEN...Then there are the "donkey songs," "When We All Get To Heaven,"
"He Keeps Me Singing," etc.
I did utilize the percussion on that Conn occasionally with the BATTLE
HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC!!! They ate it up. Of course, Fanny Crosby is
high-church there.
>In the same way, I'll utilize classical concert techniques when appropriate
>to devise some exciting hymn intros and such. These things lift the average
>organ contribution to something more extraordinary, and it's a little
>surprising how much the otherwise untrained congregant recognizes and
>appreciates the contribution.
My idea of classy yet warm music is a cross between the Billy Graham
music and the Crystal Cathedral. Nothing is "straight" in any of
those services...yet it is not as much show business as many local
churches. You need to visit Prestonwood to experience the TONIGHT
SHOW style of worship.
>Anyway, speaking again to the organ sounding "different" when you play it,
>here's a thought to make you gasp: What if they said it sounded the SAME!!
>Ouch--how cruel!!!
LORD...that's when those pop/jazz harmonies and classical techniques
work can save your reputation.
<hee hee>
D*
You say: "There are persons who have no money," and you turn to the law.
But the law is not a breast that fills itself with milk.
Nothing can enter the public treasury for the benefit of one citizen or one class
unless other citizens and other classes have been forced to send it in.
The law can be an instrument of equalization only as it takes from some persons and gives to other persons.
When the law does this, it is an instrument of plunder.
bainmc...@yahoo.com
> Rich,
>
> I don't know about Conn organs, but I don't think you're going to like the
> responses you'll probably get. My mother has what, for its time, was an
> absolute top-of-the line, state of the art Gulbransen organ of similar
> vintage sitting in her living room that she'd kill to get $100 for. She'd
> probably consider $50, just so she didn't have to dust it any more.
>
> Dwain Lee
Well I just picked up a similar organ today. it was free and i only took it for parts for my guitar amp and a speaker. the speaker saved me $50 from having to buy them. so with any luck at all you may not have to pay someone to come pick the thing up if you post it on craigslist/buy sell for free. i had the organ for 3 hours and its already completely stripped down to just a wooden frame (smashed) and ready to burn. so your best be would to pull all the metals out that have any value and take the speaker out and sell that for $20-$30. so sad to see good quality stuff be traded in for the newer style crap
elizabet...@gmail.com
transc...@gmail.com
transc...@gmail.com
can i sell the tubes
jerry
cra...@gmail.com
> Rich,
>
> I don't know about Conn organs, but I don't think you're going to like the
> responses you'll probably get. My mother has what, for its time, was an
> absolute top-of-the line, state of the art Gulbransen organ of similar
> vintage sitting in her living room that she'd kill to get $100 for. She'd
> probably consider $50, just so she didn't have to dust it any more.
>
> Dwain Lee
