OT: How Chess Records Cheated Blues Artists
Johnny Asia
renegotiate his contract, the artist would be left alone with a bottle
of whiskey for an hour. "Is he drunk yet?" Chess would ask his
secretary, before going in to lay his proposition on the table
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/reviews/article302228.ece
The Record Men, by Rich Cohen (PROFILE £11.99 (220pp))
Looking at various aspects of economics, the "Atlas" series from
Profile includes Tim Parks on Medici Money; James Buchan's study of
Adam Smith will appear shortly. However, it seems a safe bet that few
entrepreneurs in the series will compare with Chicago-based record
boss Leonard Chess for lack of scruple. When one of the great bluesmen
on the Chess roster came in to renegotiate his contract, the artist
would be left alone with a bottle of whiskey for an hour. "Is he drunk
yet?" Chess would ask his secretary, before going in to lay his
proposition on the table: "We just can't come up with the scratch, but
how do you feel about a boss set of tyres?" Yet the result of this
unorthodox technique was, according to the Atlantic records boss Jerry
Wexler, "the finest blues repository in history", including Willie
Dixon, Little Walter and Howlin' Wolf. But the greatest Chess star was
Muddy Waters. Jimi Hendrix said that his music "scared me to death".
Even Muddy was scared of his own music when he happened to hear it in
his open convertible: "I thought I'd died." As this fine and stirring
book reveals, the apoplectic Leonard Chess was almost a caricature of
the vulgar record producer, but the music that emerged from his
legendary Chicago studio at 2120 South Michigan Avenue changed the
world
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg
"I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years." - Thelonious Monk
moma...@gmu.edu
Chess. For an alternative to the standard "Chess ripped blues artists
off" narrative, see Nadine Cohodas, "spinning blues into gold." Her
book is extremely careful and well researched, and she has numerous
accounts of Chess carrying artists who would come in whenever they
needed money and demand an advance on royalties, then complain when
they didn't get the royalties again. There's a famous story, told by
Keith Richards, that when the Rolling Stones came to Chess to record
they found Muddy Waters painting the studio walls to make extra money.
Cohodas looks at that story and finds really good evidence that it's
all bullshit made up by Keith Richards--Muddy would not have done it,
didn't need the money, and Leonard Chess and Muddy were quite close.
Anyway, not saying Chess did'nt rip people off, only that there's lots
of evidence for a more complicated picture
Five Guys Named Mo
along comes another fruitcake.
Leave the world alone, will ya?
mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)
>
> Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
> http://johnnyasia.info
Johnny,
Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
mark
Willie K. Yee, MD
Check out his web page. Decide for yourself.
Johnny Asia
>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
>>Johnny,
>>
>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>
+
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Ignorance is an evil weed, which dictators may cultivate among their
dupes, but which no democracy can afford among its citizens."
- William H. Beveridge, 1944
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
Want to know what's really going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
always been authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material
available to advance understanding of political, human rights, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues. I
believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright
Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
Johnny Asia
>>Johnny,
>>
>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>
>>mark
>
Mark,
Is is just me, or do you have your head up your ass about
what's going on in the world around you?
Johnny Asia
MD) wrote:
>>
>>Johnny,
>>
>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>
>>mark
>
>Check out his web page. Decide for yourself.
better yet, read this letter of recommendation from a retired
CIA offical:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/letter.html
As far as I know, I'm the only Hippie who ever received such
a letter! Here's who wrote it:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/ralph.html
Johnny Asia
>>>
>>>Johnny,
>>>
>>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>>
>>>mark
>
Oh yeah, I forgot, go fuck yourself, Mark.
Pete Kerezman
MD) wrote:
Upon perusal thereof I can deduce only that Johnny A. spends far too
much time in front of the mirror.
Texas Pete
Johnny Asia
MD) wrote:
Check out some of the visitors to my web pages, decide for yourself:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/screenshot.html
I get .gov and .mil visitors every single day.
Johnny Asia
wrote:
>
> Upon perusal thereof I can deduce only that Johnny A. spends far too
>much time in front of the mirror.
>
>Texas Pete
Hey Pete, fuck you. You have insulted me before, and I'm going to
insist that the next time you do it, do it to my face, asshole.
Johnny Asia
MD) wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
>>> http://johnnyasia.info
>>
>>Johnny,
>>
>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>
>>mark
>
What the hell does a book review about a record company cheating
artists have to do with any kind of conspiracy?
Are you saying that cheating blues and jazz artists didn't exist in
the music business??
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
Johnny Asia
>Check out some of the visitors to my web pages, decide for yourself:
>http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/screenshot.html
>
>I get .gov and .mil visitors every single day.
>+
4 August 09:04 Cornell University, Ithaca, United States
Hi Tom!
Little Brother
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
Johnny Asia
>
>better yet, read this letter of recommendation from a retired
>CIA offical:
>http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/letter.html
>
>As far as I know, I'm the only Hippie who ever received such
>a letter! Here's who wrote it:
>http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/ralph.html
>+
4 August 08:47 Czech Republic (sorry.cz)
visited both pages.
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
Tom Walls
<poki_pongo at yahoo.com> says...
>
> >Check out some of the visitors to my web pages, decide for yourself:
> >http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/screenshot.html
> >
> >I get .gov and .mil visitors every single day.
> >+
>
>
> 4 August 09:04 Cornell University, Ithaca, United States
>
> Hi Tom!
>
>
> Little Brother
>
Yo! Jeez, I feel like I'm being monitored. And -- as it happens -- at
this very moment the bomb squad is investigating the auditorium across
the hall where apparently someone spotted an unattended backpack. Tell
me that you're not in cahoots with these guys, Johnny! :)
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
Johnny Asia
>Yo! Jeez, I feel like I'm being monitored. >>
Just think what THEY can do!
I keep track of the interesting visitors to my political pages.
Here's a repeat visitor to my Iraq page:
3 August 16:05 U.S. Senate, United States
some other interesting visitors lately:
2 August 06:39 Warszawski Informator Internetowy, Poland
2 August 11:40 Marine Corps Central Design & Prog. Activity, United
States
2 August 16:12 Disney Worldwide Services, United States
3 August 02:07 Tribune Company, Chicago, United States
Johnny Asia
>>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
>><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>Johnny,
>>>
>>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>>
>
(Never mind the WMD's)
Silly me, I though it was about the oil!
Herbert Hoover, later to become President of the United States did a
study that showed that one of the world's largest oil fields ran along
the coast of the South China Sea right off French Indo-China, now
known as Vietnam. - Denny, Ludwell, We Fight of Oil, Alfred A. Knopf,
New York, 1928.
Download the book:
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/denny/denny.arj
This quote is on the cover:
"It is even probable that the supremacy of nations may be determined
by the possession of available petroleum and its products." -
President Coolidge
Vietnam was about oil too:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/vietnam.html
Capt. Spaulding
news:3l34f1h2ruq3tsk1c...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 07:23:11 -0500, Pete Kerezman <pete...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Upon perusal thereof I can deduce only that Johnny A. spends far too
>>much time in front of the mirror.
>>
>>Texas Pete
>
> Hey Pete, fuck you. You have insulted me before, and I'm going to
> insist that the next time you do it, do it to my face, asshole.
> +
>
What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
would agree with Pete. Oh, I forgot...we're not supposed to insult you
unless it's to your face...Ok, how about you don't annoy people
long-distance with your bullshit, and save it for when you can do it in
person? Fair, right? Now, GFY.
Johnny Asia
<cspau...@africanexplorer.com> wrote:
>What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
>narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
>would agree with Pete.
You're a bunch of pissants. Why don't you work on building your
own self-esteem, and stop worrying about mine?
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/bring_it_on2.jpg
PRS GEEK
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:09:04 -0500, "Capt. Spaulding"
> <cspau...@africanexplorer.com> wrote:
>
>
> >What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
> >narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
> >would agree with Pete.
>
> You're a bunch of pissants. Why don't you work on building your
> own self-esteem, and stop worrying about mine?
LOL... You are something Mr. Asia, I'll give you that. Why don't you just
try and get better at hippy guitar instead of arguing on newsgroups? You
could use some practice anyway. even if you did something I actually liked I
wouldn't "buy" your stuff. You haven't learned how to command respect from
your peers. I mean, as long as you're posting here and elsewhere, we are
your peers.
Please don't send all the stuff with all the quotes on great your are from
other already established musicians. Dude, they're just trying to make you
feel good.
Go practice Johnny Asia...
--
Jeff
Capt. Spaulding
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:09:04 -0500, "Capt. Spaulding"
> <cspau...@africanexplorer.com> wrote:
>
>
>>What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
>>narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
>>would agree with Pete.
>
> You're a bunch of pissants. Why don't you work on building your
> own self-esteem, and stop worrying about mine?
>
narcissism and 'self-esteem' is very telling, indeed. I do so wish your
'career' was going better, but it doesn't take a guitar virtuoso to realize
that you're a hack, so it's no surprise, really. There're guys 1000 times
more talented than you (or me, to be fair) that are sacking groceries for
health insurance. You suck. Get over it.
Johnny Asia
Woodstock Quantum Ensemble
Colony Cafe, Woodstock, NY
Sunday, August 14 8-10PM
Dom Minasi, Johnny Asia, and Joe Finn, guitars
Special guest vocalist Carol Mennie
"Johnny Asia is a supernova of a player, spinning cosmic melodies at
the speed of light. This trio, with avant-traditionalist Minasi and
the groundbreaking Finn - is as mindful a "jazz" line-up as the
Kingston scene has ever heard."
- Nov. 4, 2004 Chronogram, Mid-Hudson Magazine of Events & Ideas -
"Nightlife Highlights"
Johnny Asia " the mans' fusion of classic-flamenco-cosmological
remains eternally memorable.....a cosmonaut to infinity... the music
is a beatific mind-blow.....Kitty Montgomery, Kingston Daily Freeman
http://johnnyasia.info
"Imagine a composite of guitarist Johnny Smith and saxophonist Eric
Dolphy and you've got a good idea where Dom is coming from...."- Bill
Milkowski .."One of New Yorks' best kept secrets is finally 'getting
out.' Hooray!" - Jim Hall http://domminasi.com/
"Finn reveals a smooth tone and immaculate technique, reminiscent of
such players as Barney Kessel and Herb Ellis." - Dave Nathan All
Music Guide http://www.joefinn.net/
Carol Mennie: "a wonderful and adventurous first outing by the New
York vocalist. It is a sexy, sultry, playful, and sometimes humorous
collection of eleven tunes that not only features the considerable
vocal talents of Carol Mennie but also features the outstanding
composing, arranging, and playing skills of jazz guitarist Dom
Minasi." - JazzGuitarLife.com
"If you want to know what the future of music sounds like..
listen to Johnny Asia, then you'll know!" - Dom Minasi
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
Johnny Asia
wrote:
>Please don't send all the stuff with all the quotes on great your are from
>other already established musicians. Dude, they're just trying to make you
>feel good.
>
Jeff, you're an idiot.
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
PRS GEEK
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 14:25:04 GMT, "PRS GEEK" <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Please don't send all the stuff with all the quotes on great your are
from
> >other already established musicians. Dude, they're just trying to make
you
> >feel good.
> >
>
>
> Jeff, you're an idiot.
I love you too, you hippie guitarist!
--
Jeff
Pete Kerezman
yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>Johnny,
>>>>
>>>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>>>
>>>>mark
>>
>
>Oh yeah, I forgot, go fuck yourself, Mark.
>+
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:49:37 -0400, Johnny Asia <poki_pongo at
yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Upon perusal thereof I can deduce only that Johnny A. spends far too
>>much time in front of the mirror.
>>
>>Texas Pete
>
>Hey Pete, fuck you. You have insulted me before, and I'm going to
>insist that the next time you do it, do it to my face, asshole.
>+
On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:15:08 -0400, Johnny Asia <poki_pongo at
yahoo.com> wrote:
>>What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
>>narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
>>would agree with Pete.
>
>You're a bunch of pissants. Why don't you work on building your
>own self-esteem, and stop worrying about mine?
>+
Johnny, I'm not seein' any peace, love and happiness here. Are you
sure you're a hippie?
Texas Pete
Johnny Asia
wrot
>
> Johnny, I'm not seein' any peace, love and happiness here. Are you
>sure you're a hippie?
>
>Texas Pete
Right now, I'm a pissed off Hippie.
I posted a review of a new book about Chess Records cheating blues
artists, mostly guitarists. The topic comes up from time to time,
about how the music industry cheated blues and jazz greats.
And somehow, some people felt like it was some kind of signal to vent
their spleen, and unload their resentment towards me, about all kinds
of things. Jeez.
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
Pete Kerezman
yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:17:47 GMT, wk...@bestweb.net (Willie K. Yee,
>MD) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
>><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
>>>> http://johnnyasia.info
>>>
>>>Johnny,
>>>
>>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
>>>
>>>mark
>>
>
>What the hell does a book review about a record company cheating
>artists have to do with any kind of conspiracy?
>
>Are you saying that cheating blues and jazz artists didn't exist in
>the music business??
>+
I'm shocked, absolutely flabbergasted to learn that only jazz and
blues artists have been cheated by the music business. Those genres
are such small potatoes. Man, if I'd had a record company I'd have
been cheatin' the crap out of the realy big sellers, like Pat Boone
and Mario Lanza.
Texas Pete
Johnny Asia
wrote:
Man, if I'd had a record company I'd have
>been cheatin' the crap out of the realy big sellers, like Pat Boone>>
He wasn't an alchoholic, so they couldn't get him drunk before he
signed the contract. (Like the book asserts Chess did to blues men.)
>and Mario Lanza.>>
The Mafia would kill you.
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
kitekrazy
>>
>
> What the hell does a book review about a record company cheating
> artists have to do with any kind of conspiracy?
>
> Are you saying that cheating blues and jazz artists didn't exist in
> the music business??
> +
>
Artists not getting their fair share is nothing new. It still exists.
Some of them have started their own label.
Lee Waun
Time to make space for you in my killfile.
"Johnny Asia" <poki_pongo at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1374f1lkpjmnoamf3...@4ax.com...
kitekrazy
> Wow you sure are deluded.
>
> Time to make space for you in my killfile.
>
The multiple cross posts are always a good clue.
glen
I love that little quote from Monk. It's haunted me since I first read
it on one of your posts a few months ago. I love that you put it in my
face all the time. We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams,
and we need to see some stuff like this from the manifesto every day.
I also appreciate the time and energy you take to spread the word about
the situation in the wider world. I'm an Irishman in the UK,
subscribe to the Guardian, private eye, BBC, I get a pretty balanced
view of the world compared to some of your benighted compatriots.
That link to Commonsense does exactly what it says on the tin.
It probably doesn't matter whether you're a conspiracy theorist or not
(though I think not- just an observer of the shit out there), fact is
most of the stuff reported in the worlds most respected media outlets
is much scarier these days than anything one could make up.
and I kinda dig your crazy guitar playing.
Thanks
Glen
Pete Kerezman
yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:30:18 GMT, pete...@aol.com (Pete Kerezman)
>wrote:
>>
>> Man, if I'd had a record company I'd have
>>been cheatin' the crap out of the realy big sellers, like Pat Boone
>
> He wasn't an alchoholic, so they couldn't get him drunk before he
>signed the contract. (Like the book asserts Chess did to blues men.)
Are you claiming that Pat Boone had no weaknesses whatsoever that
might have been used to "leverage" him? (I love that term:
"leverage." Today's bizspeak for muscle in.)
>>and Mario Lanza.
>
>The Mafia would kill you.
>
>+
I used to could always tell a mob bar by the jukebox, which would be
loaded up with Sinatra, Caruso, Lanza, Tonys Martin and Bennett, Four
Seasons... the jukebox and the dress code were a dead giveaway. Never
had a problem tipping a glass in one though, despite the long hair and
the bell-bottoms. I think they thought I was Irish. The low-level
wiseguys were a riot to watch too, think "Mean Streets" but with less
charm.
Texas Pete
Johnny Asia
>
>I also appreciate the time and energy you take to spread the word about
>the situation in the wider world. >>
Thanks, Glen. I get comments like yours often, but mostly
from people who don't live in the US. Most Americans don't care,
as long as they can step on the gas in their SUV's
on their way to Disneyland, and watch the Superbowl in air-conditioned
comfort.
I'm an Irishman in the UK,
>subscribe to the Guardian, private eye, BBC, I get a pretty balanced
>view of the world compared to some of your benighted compatriots.
Benighted, befuddled and bewildered, they are!
Not to mention besotted and bedazzled!
Johnny Thunders Jr.
PRS GEEK
"Johnny Asia" <poki_pongo at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sae4f152rsv24i53h...@4ax.com...
> >and Mario Lanza.>>
>
> The Mafia would kill you.
Naw, my people will leave Tejas Pete alone, but they're looking for YOU.
Look out yer window!
Jeff (The Italian Stallion)...
Pete Kerezman
wrote:
>
Shhh!
Texas, uh, Texas Irving
glen
8-}
g
m...@nospam.com
On 4-Aug-2005, Johnny Asia <poki_pongo at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:10:44 GMT, pete...@aol.com (Pete Kerezman)
> wrot
>
> >
> > Johnny, I'm not seein' any peace, love and happiness here. Are you
> >sure you're a hippie?
> >
> >Texas Pete
>
>
> Right now, I'm a pissed off Hippie.
>
> I posted a review of a new book about Chess Records cheating blues
> artists, mostly guitarists. The topic comes up from time to time,
> about how the music industry cheated blues and jazz greats.
>
> And somehow, some people felt like it was some kind of signal to vent
> their spleen, and unload their resentment towards me, about all kinds
> of things. Jeez.
>
>
>
> +
>
> Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
> http://johnnyasia.info
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg
>
FWIW, I dig your attitude, your posts, your webpages. I'm on dial-up so I
haven't downloaded your music yet, but I will... The thing about bluesmen
being cheated is old news to me, but it is definitely true. I too am amazed
at the response. Some of the respondents evidently can't effectively string
thoughts together or express themselves coherently. (Logic? We don' need no
steenking LOGIC...) Some people lack the capacity for critical thinking and
they just go off.
As for the claims that you are only promoting yourself, heh, where is the
music of those making the claim? Let them fill our universe with their
musical genius so we may properly acknowledge them. If they can't, it's just
so much sour grapes.
Keep up the good work, Jonnny Asia.
The Old Guitar Player (also an old hippie...hell...I even lived in the
Haight in the sixties)
Les Cargill
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:09:04 -0500, "Capt. Spaulding"
> <cspau...@africanexplorer.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
>>narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
>>would agree with Pete.
>
>
> You're a bunch of pissants. Why don't you work on building your
> own self-esteem, and stop worrying about mine?
>
Why don't you stop corssposting this hors d'fecation across so
gol-dang many newsgroups. You'd be KOTM material if they still did
that.
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:10:44 GMT, pete...@aol.com (Pete Kerezman)
> wrot
>
>
>> Johnny, I'm not seein' any peace, love and happiness here. Are you
>>sure you're a hippie?
>>
>>Texas Pete
>
>
>
> Right now, I'm a pissed off Hippie.
>
> I posted a review of a new book about Chess Records cheating blues
> artists, mostly guitarists. The topic comes up from time to time,
> about how the music industry cheated blues and jazz greats.
>
If that were the case, the descendants of the Chess Brothers
would be proper slumlords now, instead of still slugging it
out in the Moosick Bidness.
People said Berry Gordy cheated people ( and Berry Gordy
produced better, and more commercial, material ) but that
just doesn't hold up in serious analysis.
> And somehow, some people felt like it was some kind of signal to vent
> their spleen, and unload their resentment towards me, about all kinds
> of things. Jeez.
>
Yes. It's all about you.
<snip>
--
Les Cargill
glen
produced better, and more commercial, material ) but that
just doesn't hold up in serious analysis.
Oh come on. Check out what the guys who played on all those Motown
records have to say. See who's feelin cheated.
Have you seen Standin in the Shadows of Motown or read the Dr Licks
James Jamerson Book. Check it out Man.
Gordy didn't just adopt the production methods of the huge car
manufacturing plants- he copped the economics too. And when the labour
became too expensive for the Caliguan operation costs he just shipped
out like the car firms did.
At the bottom of all empires are the guys who actually did the graft.
Layed the blocks in that pyramid, built that conquering Armada, I mean,
don't even start me on Sherpas....
In the music business these dupes tend to be the artists.
Any instances of Clive Davis making a shitty business decision because
the other guy got him pissed. Or Peter Grant?
Chess Bros, Berry Gordy etc are businessmen to whom artists are stock.
Toast
>
> "Johnny Asia is an unknown player, spinning comic melodies at
> the speed of soup.
>
> Johnny Asia " the mans' fusion of gas-and-urine
> remains eternally memorable.....a cosmonaut to plumbing... the music
> is a horrific mind-blow.....>
>
>
>
>
> "If you want to know what a toilet sounds like..
> listen to Johnny Asia, then you'll know!"
>
>
>
>
>
Toast
> And somehow, some people felt like it was some kind of signal to vent
> their spleen, and unload their resentment towards me, about all kinds
> of things. Jeez.
So shut the fuck up and put the newsreader down ya bag o' shite.
glen
business so fuck the staff we're gone
unknowngu...@comcast.net
I understand what you're saying, but the Funk Brothers aren't a great
example of the kind of exploitation that's being discussed here (in
between the flame fest). No one in the Standing in the Shadows of
Motown movie, or in Allan Slutsky's book had anything the least bit
negative to say about Berry Gordy. The Funk Brothers were sidemen and
were paid well for it in the 60's (that's all in Slutsky's book).
Now if you ask artists like Martha Reeves or Mary Wilson, you'll hear a
very different story, and not a pretty one. But the Funks themselves
have said many times that Gordy was a smart guy with big ears who
treated them well (at least, until he moved Motown out of Detroit).
Les Cargill
> People said Berry Gordy cheated people ( and Berry Gordy
> produced better, and more commercial, material ) but that
> just doesn't hold up in serious analysis.
>
>
>
> Oh come on. Check out what the guys who played on all those Motown
> records have to say. See who's feelin cheated.
>
> Have you seen Standin in the Shadows of Motown or read the Dr Licks
> James Jamerson Book. Check it out Man.
>
That's one of my main sources. You gotta read between the lines,
and have some experience with emergent business sucess stories.
That thing got *BIG*, fast on them guys, and that kinda makes
people a little crazy.
> Gordy didn't just adopt the production methods of the huge car
> manufacturing plants- he copped the economics too.
AbsoLUTEly. That is what is miraculous about the whole shebang.
It was the Industrial Revolution applied to art,
really great art in most cases. Yet it was production art.
When they dig up Roman sites, they get a few hundred artifacts.
If you dug up Motown...
> And when the labour
> became too expensive for the Caliguan operation costs he just shipped
> out like the car firms did.
>
Up until singles gave way to albums, Motown was a lot
closer to hand-to-mouth than you realize. Look here:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/tapeop/olmo/olmo.php
It was all done in Berry Gordy's *house*. How indy is that?
They made this up as they went along.
> At the bottom of all empires are the guys who actually did the graft.
> Layed the blocks in that pyramid, built that conquering Armada, I mean,
> don't even start me on Sherpas....
>
Those are the real guys, the guys who did it. The Pharoahs are
just easier to write down. It's like stemming the tide
with a teacup.
> In the music business these dupes tend to be the artists.
>
It just looks that way. The dupes that weren't the artists ...
vanished. We don't know about 'em. The artists could climb back on,
the other people couldn't.
Time is a river, you know.
> Any instances of Clive Davis making a shitty business decision because
> the other guy got him pissed.
Hell yeah. I can't think of the example right now, but
shit, he's out there 40 years. By pure force of
sampling, he's gonna make a few.
> Or Peter Grant?
>
I can't think of one. He quit Zep because he was wore out - died
not long after. Given his temperament, I
can only imagine.
> Chess Bros, Berry Gordy etc are businessmen to whom artists are stock.
>
Stock implies a commodity item. Tell me James Jamerson was a
commodity. You can use my time machine...
Take away any one element, and it all falls apart. But there are
more James Jamerson level players than Berry Gordy level "players".
It's so easy, you go do it. :) All I am
saying is that I have a deep and abiding repsect
for all those folks. Anybody who did Motown was
making history.
Artists get screwed. This is not news.
You did *that*, *THAT*!, that should almost be enough.
--
Les Cargill
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> When one of the great bluesmen on the Chess roster came in to
> renegotiate his contract, the artist would be left alone with a bottle
> of whiskey for an hour. "Is he drunk yet?" Chess would ask his
> secretary, before going in to lay his proposition on the table
>
> http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/reviews/article302228.ece
>
> The Record Men, by Rich Cohen (PROFILE £11.99 (220pp))
>
> Looking at various aspects of economics, the "Atlas" series from
> Profile includes Tim Parks on Medici Money; James Buchan's study of
> Adam Smith will appear shortly. However, it seems a safe bet that few
> entrepreneurs in the series will compare with Chicago-based record
> boss Leonard Chess for lack of scruple. When one of the great bluesmen
> on the Chess roster came in to renegotiate his contract, the artist
> would be left alone with a bottle of whiskey for an hour. "Is he drunk
> yet?" Chess would ask his secretary, before going in to lay his
> proposition on the table: "We just can't come up with the scratch, but
> how do you feel about a boss set of tyres?" Yet the result of this
> unorthodox technique was, according to the Atlantic records boss Jerry
> Wexler, "the finest blues repository in history", including Willie
> Dixon, Little Walter and Howlin' Wolf. But the greatest Chess star was
> Muddy Waters. Jimi Hendrix said that his music "scared me to death".
> Even Muddy was scared of his own music when he happened to hear it in
> his open convertible: "I thought I'd died." As this fine and stirring
> book reveals, the apoplectic Leonard Chess was almost a caricature of
> the vulgar record producer, but the music that emerged from his
> legendary Chicago studio at 2120 South Michigan Avenue changed the
> world
>
> +
>
> Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
> http://johnnyasia.info
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg
>
>
> you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
> them fifteen, twenty years." - Thelonious Monk
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> >On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
> ><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>Johnny,
> >>
> >>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
> >>
>
> +
>
> "As democracy is perfected, the office of president
> represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
> of the people. On some great and glorious day the
> plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
> desire at last and the White House will be adorned
> by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
>
> "Ignorance is an evil weed, which dictators may cultivate among their
> dupes, but which no democracy can afford among its citizens."
> - William H. Beveridge, 1944
>
>
> "The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
> by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
>
> Want to know what's really going on in Iraq?
> http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
>
> The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
> The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
> http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
>
>
>
>
>
> NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
> always been authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material
> available to advance understanding of political, human rights, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues. I
> believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of such copyrighted material as
> provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright
> Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> >>On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
> >><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>>Johnny,
> >>>
> >>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
> >>>
> >
>
> (Never mind the WMD's)
>
> Silly me, I though it was about the oil!
>
>
> study that showed that one of the world's largest oil fields ran along
> the coast of the South China Sea right off French Indo-China, now
> known as Vietnam. - Denny, Ludwell, We Fight of Oil, Alfred A. Knopf,
> New York, 1928.
>
> Download the book:
> http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/denny/denny.arj
>
> This quote is on the cover:
>
> "It is even probable that the supremacy of nations may be determined
> by the possession of available petroleum and its products." -
> President Coolidge
>
>
> Vietnam was about oil too:
> http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/vietnam.html
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> >>Johnny,
> >>
> >>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
> >>
> >
>
>
> Mark,
>
> Is is just me, or do you have your head up your ass about
> what's going on in the world around you?
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:17:47 GMT, wk...@bestweb.net (Willie K. Yee,
> MD) wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Johnny,
> >>
> >>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
> >>
> >>mark
> >
>
> better yet, read this letter of recommendation from a retired
> CIA offical:
> http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/letter.html
>
> As far as I know, I'm the only Hippie who ever received such
> a letter! Here's who wrote it:
> http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/ralph.html
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Johnny,
> >>>
> >>>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
> >>>
> >>>mark
> >
>
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:10:44 GMT, pete...@aol.com (Pete Kerezman)
> wrot
>
> >
> > Johnny, I'm not seein' any peace, love and happiness here. Are you
> >sure you're a hippie?
> >
> >Texas Pete
>
>
> Right now, I'm a pissed off Hippie.
>
> I posted a review of a new book about Chess Records cheating blues
> artists, mostly guitarists. The topic comes up from time to time,
> about how the music industry cheated blues and jazz greats.
>
> their spleen, and unload their resentment towards me, about all kinds
> of things. Jeez.
>
>
>
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 07:23:11 -0500, Pete Kerezman <pete...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Upon perusal thereof I can deduce only that Johnny A. spends far too
> >much time in front of the mirror.
> >
> >Texas Pete
>
> Hey Pete, fuck you. You have insulted me before, and I'm going to
> insist that the next time you do it, do it to my face, asshole.
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:09:04 -0500, "Capt. Spaulding"
> <cspau...@africanexplorer.com> wrote:
>
>
> >What insult? If you're talking about the implication that you're a
> >narcissistic asshole, well, there're *several* people (including me) that
> >would agree with Pete.
>
> You're a bunch of pissants. Why don't you work on building your
> own self-esteem, and stop worrying about mine?
>
Karl
> >been cheatin' the crap out of the realy big sellers, like Pat Boone>>
>
> He wasn't an alchoholic, so they couldn't get him drunk before he
> signed the contract. (Like the book asserts Chess did to blues men.)
>
>
> The Mafia would kill you.
>
Karl
>
> >On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 03:58:26 GMT, "mark (sixstringtheoryDOTcom)"
> ><mark2741@no_chance_spammers_verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Is it just me or do you seem to find a conspiracy in everything?
> >>
> >>mark
> >
>
> artists have to do with any kind of conspiracy?
>
> Are you saying that cheating blues and jazz artists didn't exist in
> the music business??
Karl
Johnny Asia wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:20:23 -0400, Tom Walls <tw...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>
> >Yo! Jeez, I feel like I'm being monitored. >>
>
> Just think what THEY can do!
>
> I keep track of the interesting visitors to my political pages.
>
> Here's a repeat visitor to my Iraq page:
>
> 3 August 16:05 U.S. Senate, United States
>
>
> some other interesting visitors lately:
>
> 2 August 06:39 Warszawski Informator Internetowy, Poland
> 2 August 11:40 Marine Corps Central Design & Prog. Activity, United
> States
> 2 August 16:12 Disney Worldwide Services, United States
> 3 August 02:07 Tribune Company, Chicago, United States
Bazooka-Joe
KARL! One must not abuse "Goosfraba". It's powers must be used for
good and never evil. It's like Ritalin. Too much of it, and it will
backfire. You're gonna put an eye out pointing that thing everywhere
like that.
:)
:Bazooka-Joe
Karl
Bazooka-Joe wrote:
> Karl wrote:
> > Goosfraba.
> KARL! One must not abuse "Goosfraba". It's powers must be used for
> good and never evil. It's like Ritalin. Too much of it, and it will
> backfire. You're gonna put an eye out pointing that thing everywhere
> like that.
> :)
> :Bazooka-Joe
Sorry, Joe. It's my first day of Goosfrabing. The Goosfrabinge is over.
Johnny Asia
wrote:
> You
>could use some practice anyway. even if you did something I actually liked I
>wouldn't "buy" your stuff. You haven't learned how to command respect from
>your peers. I mean, as long as you're posting here and elsewhere, we are
>your peers.
>
>Please don't send all the stuff with all the quotes on great your are from
>other already established musicians. Dude, they're just trying to make you
>feel good.
>
Jeff L.,
You mean that why this guy plays with me????? He's part of some kind
of conspiracy to make me feel good???
Listen:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=78840&songID=2721724
"Finn reveals a smooth tone and immaculate technique, reminiscent of
such players as Barney Kessel and Herb Ellis."
- Dave Nathan All Music Guide
+
Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
http://johnnyasia.info
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/bring_it_on2.jpg
Johnny Asia
<cspau...@africanexplorer.com> wrote:
> I do so wish your 'career' was going better, but it doesn't take a guitar virtuoso to realize
>that you're a hack, so it's no surprise, really. There're guys 1000 times
>more talented than you (or me, to be fair) that are sacking groceries for
>health insurance. You suck. Get over it.
>
Listen to me hacking away with Joe Finn:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=78840&songID=2721724
"Finn reveals a smooth tone and immaculate technique, reminiscent of
such players as Barney Kessel and Herb Ellis."
- Dave Nathan All Music Guide