Tunes to discard from Real Book
PWatrous
with tunes that have been written in the last 25 years that are worthy of being
replayed. Might change the complexion of the jam session.
p
Jeremey Poparad
Stolen Moments, Dolphin Dance, ESP, and especially Blues for Alice.
But I do agree with you, there are a lot of overlooked or subpar songs in
the book.
I've played Windows a lot as well as Tones for Jones Bones, they work
suprisingly well on guitar. Haven't heard too many pianists around here
play them, but Windows is a popular one.
And come on, you seriously want to ditch "Hotel Vamp"??? That's got one of
the catchiest melodies.... lol
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:241020031807171005%222...@adelphia.net.invalid...
> These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
> are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
>
> Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
>
> But clearly tastes very. Are there any below that you'd be
> dissapointed not to be able to find in the one book you tote around?
> Something you call that others carp about?
>
> Some pianists might really have a problem ditching the Corea and
> Hancock, but U never hear pianists play them anyway.
>
> Any feedback welcome. I'm pondering my own fakebook that suits my
> personal needs, but continues to leverage the tunes that people will
> always want to play. I'm concluding none on the list below really
> qualify.
>
>
> 12-4 2-4/Duplicities Stock, Jack
> 502 Blues Rowles, Jimmy
> African Flower Ellington, Duke
> Afro Blue Santamaria, Mongo
> And Now, The Queen Bley, Carla
> And On the Third Day Gibbs, Michael
> April Joy Metheny, Pat
> Arise, Her Eyes Swallow, Steve
> Armageddon Shorter, Wayne
> Around Again Bley, Carla
> As Time Goes By Hupfeld, Herman
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Ay, Arriba! Balcomb, Stu
> Ballet Gibbs, Michael
> Batterie Bley, Carla
> Beauty and the Beast Shorter, Wayne
> Beneath It All Anderson, Gary
> Bessie's Blues Coltrane, John
> Big Nick Coltrane, John
> Bitter Suite in the Ozone Moses, Bob
> Black Diamond Kirk, Roland
> Black Narcissus Henderson, Joe
> Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
> Blessed Relief Zappa, Frank
> Blue Comedy Gibbs, Michael
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
> Boston Marathon Burton, Gary
> Brainville Ra, Sun
> Broadway Blues Coleman, Ornette
> Brownout Burton, Gary
> Call for All Demons, A Ra, Sun
> Canyon Song Towner, Ralph
> Captain Marvel Corea, Chick
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
> Chelsea Bells Swallow, Steve
> Chicken Feathers Kuhn, Steve
> Children's Song Corea, Chick
> Chippie Coleman, Ornette
> Colors of Chloe Weber, Eberhard
> Como En Vietnam Swallow, Steve
> Conception Shearing, George
> Conference of the Birds Holland, Dave
> Coral Jarrett, Keith
> Country Roads Burton, Gary
> Crescent Coltrane, John
> Day Waves Corea, Chick
> Days and Nights Waiting Jarrett, Keith
> De Pois De Amor O'vazio Shorter, Wayne
> Delores Shorter, Wayne
> Deluge Shorter, Wayne
> Desert Air Corea, Chick
> Doin' the Pig Swallow, Steve
> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
> Domino Biscuit Swallow, Steve
> E.S.P. Shorter, Wayne
> Ecclusiastics Mingus, Charles
> Eiderdown Swallow, Steve
> Eighty One Carter, Ron
> Empathy Niles, Richard
> Equinox Coltrane, John
> Equipoise Cowell, Stanley
> Fables of Faubus Mingus, Charles
> Family Joy, A Gibbs, Michael
> Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum Shorter, Wayne
> Feelings and Things Gibbs, Michael
> Fields We Know, The Jarrett, Keith
> Flags Bley, Carla
> Follow Your Heart McLaughlin, John
> For Heavens Sake Meyer
> Fortune Smiles Jarrett, Keith
> Four Winds Holland, Dave
> Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
> Gary's Waltz McFarland, Gary
> Gemini Heath, Jimmy
> General Mojo's Well Laid Plan Swallow, Steve
> Good Evening Mr and Mrs America Guerin, John
> Green Mountains Swallow, Steve
> Grow Your Own Jarrett, Keith
> Hassan's Dream Golson, Benny
> Henninger Flats Prichard, David
> Herzog Hutcherson, Bobby
> Hold Out Your Hand Kuhn, Steve
> Hotel Hello Swallow, Steve
> Hotel Overture Swallow, Steve
> Hotel Vamp Swallow, Steve
> Hullo, Bolinas Swallow, Steve
> I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
> Icarus Towner, Ralph
> Ictus Bley, Carla
> Ida Lupino Bley, Carla
> Indian Lady Ellis, Don
> Inner Urge Henderson, Joe
> Inside in Gibbs, Michael
> Interplay Evans, Bill
> Intrepid Fox Hubbard, Freddie
> Iris Shorter, Wayne
> Isotope Henderson, Joe
> It's a Raggy Waltz Brubeck, Dave
> Jelly Roll Mingus, Charles
> Jinrikisha Henderson, Joe
> Jump Monk Mingus, Charles
> June 15th, 1967 Gibbs, Michael
> La Fiesta Corea, Chick
> Las Vegas Tango Evans, Gil
> Leroy the Magician Burton, Gary
> Lie Awake Coodley, Mitch
> Litha Corea, Chick
> Little B's Poem Hutcherson, Bobby
> Little Niles Hubbard, Freddie
> Little Waltz Carter, Ron
> Liturgy Gibbs, Michael
> Long As You Know You're Living Yours Jarrett, Keith
> Lonnie's Lament Coltrane, John
> Look to the Sky Jobim, Antonio Carlos
> Looking Back Niles, Richard
> Lucky Southern Jarrett, Keith
> Magician in You, The Jarrett, Keith
> Mallet Man Beck, Gordon
> May Dance Holland, Dave
> Memories of Tomorrow Jarrett, Keith
> Memphis Underground Mann, Herbie
> Mevlevia Goodrick, Mick
> Midwestern Nights Dream Metheny, Pat
> Missouri Uncompromised Metheny, Pat
> Molten Glass Farrell, Joe
> Montage Balcomb, Stu
> Moon Germs Farrell, Joe
> Moonchild Hudson, Will
> Mother of the Dead Man Bley, Carla
> Mysterious Traveler Shorter, Wayne
> Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Nimbus McClure, Ron
> Nonsequence Gibbs, Michael
> Nostalgia in Times Square Mingus, Charles
> Olhos De Gato Bley, Carla
> One Finger Snap Hancock, Herbie
> Open Your Eyes, You Can Fly Corea, Chick
> Orbits Shorter, Wayne
> Passion Dance Tyner, McCoy
> Peace Silver, Horace
> Peaches En Regalia Zappa, Frank
> Pearlies Swine Kuhn, Steve
> Pee Wee Williams, Tony
> Peggy's Blue Skylight Mingus, Charles
> Pensativa Fischer, Clare
> Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
> Pithycanthropus Erectus Mingus, Charles
> Played Twice Monk, Thelonious
> Portsmouth Figurations Swallow, Steve
> Prince of Darkness Shorter, Wayne
> Pussy Cat Dues Mingus, Charles
> Quiet Now Zeitlin, Denny
> Raven, The Jarrett, Keith
> Real Guitarist, The Kuhn, Steve
> Recordame Henderson, Joe
> Reflections Monk, Thelonious
> Reincarnation of a Lovebird Mingus, Charles
> Resolution McLaughlin, John
> Road Song Montgomery, Wes
> Saga of Harrison Crabfeathers Kuhn, Steve
> Semblence Jarrett, Keith
> Senor Mouse Corea, Chick
> Shades of Light Laws, Hubert
> Shame Shame Hutcherson, Bobby
> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
> Sing Me Softly of the Blues Bley, Carla
> Slowly Gone, Bygone Samuels, Dave
> Some Skunk Funk Brecker, Randy
> Son of Mr. Green Genes Zappa, Frank
> Song Balcomb, Stu
> Sorcerer, The Hancock, Herbie
> Space Circus Part 1 Corea, Chick
> Space Circus Part 2 Corea, Chick
> Spiral Dance Jarrett, Keith
> Steps Corea, Chick
> Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver
> Stuff Davis, Miles
> Sweeping Up Swallow, Steve
> Sweet Georgia Bright Lloyd, Charles
> Sweet Henry Swallow, Steve
> Sweet Rain Gibbs, Michael
> Tame Thy Pen Niles, Richard
> Tell Me a Bedtime Story Hancock, Herbie
> Think On Me Cables, George
> Three Flowers Tyner, McCoy
> Tones for Joan's Bones Corea, Chick
> Tough Talk Sample, Joe
> Train Samba McFarland, Gary
> Trance Kuhn, Steve
> Unity Village Metheny, Pat
> Unquity Road Metheny, Pat
> Untitled Gibbs, Michael
> Upper Manhattan Medical Groui Strayhorn, Billy
> Vashkar Bley, Carla
> Walter L. Burton, Gary
> Waltz Metheny, Pat
> Waltz for a Lovely Wife Woods, Phil
> Waltzin' Brasil, Victor
> What Was Corea, Chick
> Where Are You? McHugh, Jimmy
> Wildflower Shorter, Wayne
> Windows Corea, Chick
> Wings of Karma McLaughlin, John
>
> -- End List --
>
> --
> ///--- Vote for the richest Republican. He understand the common man.
Mark Guest
news:20031024215052...@mb-m17.aol.com...
Good point. But I can't see tossing out Dolphin Dance or ESP. Recordame &
Stolen Moments get regular rotation in my set lists (but I'm an old fart).
--
Mark Guest
Mark at MarkGuest.net
www.MarkGuest.net
Pan
<222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote:
>These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
>are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
>halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
>
>Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
>like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
>can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
>Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
>
>But clearly tastes very. Are there any below that you'd be
>dissapointed not to be able to find in the one book you tote around?
>Something you call that others carp about?
>
>Some pianists might really have a problem ditching the Corea and
>Hancock, but U never hear pianists play them anyway.
>
>Any feedback welcome. I'm pondering my own fakebook that suits my
>personal needs, but continues to leverage the tunes that people will
>always want to play. I'm concluding none on the list below really
>qualify.
[snip]
I'm not inclined to go through the entire list, but I think your list
is too long. Afro Blues, to take one example, shouldn't be excised. I
mean, Geez, you want to take away I Remember Clifford, a great ballad?
Ceora goes? Wow.
Michael
If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.
Pan
<jjp14(at)uakron.edu> wrote:
>Some of those tunes get play around my area:
>
>Stolen Moments, Dolphin Dance, ESP, and especially Blues for Alice.
I play with a bassist who loves Dolphin Dance, and it gets called at
an open jam I go to sometimes, because she calls it and other people
know and like it. Blues for Alice is not an unknown tune, either.
>But I do agree with you, there are a lot of overlooked or subpar songs in
>the book.
I agree too, but I think some of those Wayne Shorter tunes like
Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum are excellent.
>I've played Windows a lot as well as Tones for Jones Bones, they work
>suprisingly well on guitar. Haven't heard too many pianists around here
>play them, but Windows is a popular one.
Flutist here. I like both of those tunes. I don't have the memory
memorized but have used the RB to play them in jam sessions.
Denise and Al
plenty....i too would agree i remember clifford and ceora 2 of my favorites
should be attempted more frequently.
"Pan" <panNO...@musician.org> wrote in message
news:80njpvgva8b8hc68n...@4ax.com...
Jack A. Zucker
even has a couple of my tunes in it.
"PWatrous" <pwat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031024215052...@mb-m17.aol.com...
Adam Bravo
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:241020031807171005%222...@adelphia.net.invalid...
> are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
>
> Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
You mean Chelsea Bells, right?
> But clearly tastes very. Are there any below that you'd be
> dissapointed not to be able to find in the one book you tote around?
> Something you call that others carp about?
>
> Some pianists might really have a problem ditching the Corea and
> Hancock, but U never hear pianists play them anyway.
>
> Any feedback welcome. I'm pondering my own fakebook that suits my
> personal needs, but continues to leverage the tunes that people will
> always want to play. I'm concluding none on the list below really
> qualify.
Here's the ones I'd keep as from your list, based on tunes people I know
play (leaving out many very cool tunes of course):
> Afro Blue Santamaria, Mongo
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Bessie's Blues Coltrane, John
> Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
> Eighty One Carter, Ron
> Equinox Coltrane, John
> Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
> Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne (you'd be surprised at
how many people I play with)
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Passion Dance Tyner, McCoy
> Peaches En Regalia Zappa, Frank (nobody plays it, but I
like this tune too much)
> Recordame Henderson, Joe
> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
> Some Skunk Funk Brecker, Randy (again, you'd be
surprised)
> Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver (maybe on this one)
Stan Gosnell
news:241020031807171005%222...@adelphia.net.invalid:
> These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
> are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
You want to ditch Country Roads??? :-D
You're right, there are some decent tunes there, but most of them just
aren't current, or worth inclusion anywhere. I wouldn't argue about any of
them, really, but then I don't own the Real Book anyway. I do have more
than I can carry of legal ones, though. Most of the people I've played
with don't use a book anyway, and have looked slightly askance at me when I
needed one.
--
Regards,
Stan
Rbsoul
occasionally.
Ken Willinger
Hear my clips at:
http://www.soundclick.com/kenwillinger
Myth
"Adam Bravo" <mra...@cox.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:k7nmb.84569$Ms2.83286@fed1read03...
>
> "Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:241020031807171005%222...@adelphia.net.invalid...
> > These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
> > are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> > halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
> >
> > Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> > like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> > can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> > Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
>
> You mean Chelsea Bells, right?
>
hard time understanding why anyone would throw out Strayhorn beautiful
"Chelsea Bridge".
Take care,
Tom
Kevin Van Sant
<222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
<241020031807171005%222...@adelphia.net.invalid> :
>Any feedback welcome. I'm pondering my own fakebook that suits my
>personal needs, but continues to leverage the tunes that people will
>always want to play. I'm concluding none on the list below really
>qualify.
>African Flower Ellington, Duke
>Afro Blue Santamaria, Mongo
>As Time Goes By Hupfeld, Herman
>Au Privave Parker, Charlie
>Bessie's Blues Coltrane, John
>Big Nick Coltrane, John
>Black Narcissus Henderson, Joe
>Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
>Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
>Ceora Morgan, Lee
>Conception Shearing, George
>Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
>E.S.P. Shorter, Wayne
>Equinox Coltrane, John
>Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum Shorter, Wayne
>For Heavens Sake Meyer
>Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
>I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
>Inner Urge Henderson, Joe
>Interplay Evans, Bill
>Isotope Henderson, Joe
>Jinrikisha Henderson, Joe
>La Fiesta Corea, Chick
>Little Waltz Carter, Ron
>Lonnie's Lament Coltrane, John
>Look to the Sky Jobim, Antonio Carlos
>Lucky Southern Jarrett, Keith
>Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
>Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
>Nostalgia in Times Square Mingus, Charles
>Passion Dance Tyner, McCoy
>Peace Silver, Horace
>Pee Wee Williams, Tony
>Peggy's Blue Skylight Mingus, Charles
>Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
>Recordame Henderson, Joe
>Reflections Monk, Thelonious
>Road Song Montgomery, Wes
>Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
>Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver
>Tell Me a Bedtime Story Hancock, Herbie
>Tones for Joan's Bones Corea, Chick
>Upper Manhattan Medical Groui Strayhorn, Billy
>Where Are You? McHugh, Jimmy
I made my own book a few years ago which is the only book I carry
around. It's got about 500 tunes compiled from about 8 different
sources, plus a few charts I transcribed myself. I also went through
and edited the changes to a bunch that I considered off. All of
these tunes above from your discard list are still in my book. One
thing about making your own book, you don't only want to include songs
you know you'll want to play, but also include songs that you think
you *might* want to play later, and just as importantly, songs you
think someone else might call on a gig sometime. Otherwise you'll be
back to lugging around six books in no time.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
Patrick Hanrahan
they don't get called at your local jam sessions doesn't mean that they
shouldn't be. Some time you have to 'champion' a tune. Explain it, write a
better arrangement, bring a recording, write out all the parts for the
rhythm section, anything you have to make the song work. Don't let someone
else's 'unhipness' stop you from playing these tunes.
Usually you stop bringing fake book's around with when you get a bunch of
tunes under your belt. Say 50 or so. And I mean really know them. Be able
to play them in any key, even transposing it the middle of the song. Play
it in any style Swing, Bossa, Waltz, ect... Know the Intro's, Coda's and
Interludes. Own copies of the most popular recordings, at the very least
have heard a few versions. At that point the Book's are just kind of there
for reference, and who wants a reference book with less information. Case
in point, who needs a chart for "Blue Bossa', or 'Impression's. If some one
said, " Hey lets try Impression in G" could you do it? You want to make
your fake book liter/smaller? Take out the tunes you already know!
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
> These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
> are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
>
> Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
>
> dissapointed not to be able to find in the one book you tote around?
> Something you call that others carp about?
>
> Some pianists might really have a problem ditching the Corea and
> Hancock, but U never hear pianists play them anyway.
>
> personal needs, but continues to leverage the tunes that people will
> always want to play. I'm concluding none on the list below really
> qualify.
>
>
> 502 Blues Rowles, Jimmy
> Afro Blue Santamaria, Mongo
> And On the Third Day Gibbs, Michael
> April Joy Metheny, Pat
> Arise, Her Eyes Swallow, Steve
> Armageddon Shorter, Wayne
> Around Again Bley, Carla
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Ballet Gibbs, Michael
> Batterie Bley, Carla
> Beauty and the Beast Shorter, Wayne
> Beneath It All Anderson, Gary
> Big Nick Coltrane, John
> Black Diamond Kirk, Roland
> Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
> Blue Comedy Gibbs, Michael
> Gemini Heath, Jimmy
> General Mojo's Well Laid Plan Swallow, Steve
> Good Evening Mr and Mrs America Guerin, John
> Green Mountains Swallow, Steve
> Grow Your Own Jarrett, Keith
> Hassan's Dream Golson, Benny
> Henninger Flats Prichard, David
> Herzog Hutcherson, Bobby
> Hold Out Your Hand Kuhn, Steve
> Hotel Hello Swallow, Steve
> Hotel Overture Swallow, Steve
> Hotel Vamp Swallow, Steve
> Hullo, Bolinas Swallow, Steve
> Look to the Sky Jobim, Antonio Carlos
> Lucky Southern Jarrett, Keith
> Magician in You, The Jarrett, Keith
> Mallet Man Beck, Gordon
> May Dance Holland, Dave
> Memories of Tomorrow Jarrett, Keith
> Memphis Underground Mann, Herbie
> Mevlevia Goodrick, Mick
> Midwestern Nights Dream Metheny, Pat
> Missouri Uncompromised Metheny, Pat
> Molten Glass Farrell, Joe
> Montage Balcomb, Stu
> Moon Germs Farrell, Joe
> Moonchild Hudson, Will
> Mother of the Dead Man Bley, Carla
> Mysterious Traveler Shorter, Wayne
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Nonsequence Gibbs, Michael
> One Finger Snap Hancock, Herbie
> Open Your Eyes, You Can Fly Corea, Chick
> Orbits Shorter, Wayne
> Peace Silver, Horace
> Pee Wee Williams, Tony
> Peggy's Blue Skylight Mingus, Charles
> Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
> Pithycanthropus Erectus Mingus, Charles
> Played Twice Monk, Thelonious
> Portsmouth Figurations Swallow, Steve
> Prince of Darkness Shorter, Wayne
> Pussy Cat Dues Mingus, Charles
> Quiet Now Zeitlin, Denny
> Raven, The Jarrett, Keith
> Real Guitarist, The Kuhn, Steve
> Reflections Monk, Thelonious
> Resolution McLaughlin, John
> Road Song Montgomery, Wes
> Saga of Harrison Crabfeathers Kuhn, Steve
> Semblence Jarrett, Keith
> Senor Mouse Corea, Chick
> Shades of Light Laws, Hubert
> Shame Shame Hutcherson, Bobby
> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
> Sing Me Softly of the Blues Bley, Carla
> Slowly Gone, Bygone Samuels, Dave
> Song Balcomb, Stu
> Sorcerer, The Hancock, Herbie
> Space Circus Part 1 Corea, Chick
> Space Circus Part 2 Corea, Chick
> Spiral Dance Jarrett, Keith
> Steps Corea, Chick
> Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver
> Stuff Davis, Miles
> Sweeping Up Swallow, Steve
> Sweet Georgia Bright Lloyd, Charles
> Sweet Henry Swallow, Steve
> Sweet Rain Gibbs, Michael
> Tame Thy Pen Niles, Richard
> Three Flowers Tyner, McCoy
> Train Samba McFarland, Gary
> Trance Kuhn, Steve
> Unity Village Metheny, Pat
> Unquity Road Metheny, Pat
> Untitled Gibbs, Michael
> Walter L. Burton, Gary
> Waltz Metheny, Pat
> Waltz for a Lovely Wife Woods, Phil
> Waltzin' Brasil, Victor
> What Was Corea, Chick
Gerry
<pwat...@aol.com> wrote:
> More to the point,
I think you mean, "another related discussion"...
> I wonder why no one has put together a modern fake book, with tunes
> that have been written in the last 25 years that are worthy of being
> replayed. Might change the complexion of the jam session.
"Modern" can be a vague word. I would think of all the Burton and Bley
and such in the Real Book as modern. But it's true that it's over 25
years old. I'm not sure the roster of names and tunes could so easily
be cobbled together representing the last 25 as the previous 25.
Nevertheless, Sher's newest: All Jazz Fakebook, seems to cover this
exactly, as does their first; "The World's Greatest Fakebook". Though
it just barely makes the 25 year cut-off.
Between the combined 400 tunes present there are some there's still a
few Parker and Ellington, but generally they're within this time frame.
More importantly, stylistically these are predominantly "modern".
steve
On 24-Oct-2003, Gerry <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote:
> Tame Thy Pen Niles, Richard
This tune jumped out at me because I stumbled on it a few months ago and had
a lot of fun with it. Properly named, too, given the wild interval (maj 7
jumps all over the place).
steve
--
"A man was severely injured today in the Knutsford area."
Benny Hill
Jurupari
do it>> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
oughta have my ass kicked for not doin it
>> Black Narcissus Henderson, Joe
did it with a group, but not now.
>> Captain Marvel Corea, Chick
That's a biggie for me I've always loved the song and its in the regular
rotation
>> Conception Shearing, George
another oughta do
>> De Pois De Amor O'vazio Shorter, Wayne
used to do that. Does Bertoncini do it? He recorded it with Shorter a long
time ago.
>> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
that's a standard for me - every gig just about.
> I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
another major big deal to me. Love that song.
>> La Fiesta Corea, Chick
I do this solo segued with Senor Mouse. I'm just now getting the thing so I can
play it out, it's pretty challenging on guitar.
I changed the key to F# phryg but love the sound of the Debussey part.
>> Leroy the Magician Burton, Gary
Always loved it. Still play it solo once in awhile
>> Litha Corea, Chick
Another biggie for me. Just now getting pretty fluent with it. I started
doing it about a year ago. It used to be a jam tune for the dudes in Raleigh.
I'm soloing over the whole form.
>> Memories of Tomorrow Jarrett, Keith
I'm revisiting that one solo too. Great movement and sounds fine just blowing
the head. I'll never get tired of that kind of playing. I've been permanently
disfigured by overexposure to Keith and Gary at an early age.
Gerry
<kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
Jeez, from your list you do a pretty modern gig. Very cool. I've done
most of the tunes you've listed, but don't really expect to encounter
many again--when something else wouldn't do. Gotta move on sometime,
no?
By the way, some deleted were accidental. I just noted "As Time Goes
By". That's not going anywhere! I figure it's one of the top 10
audience requests.
> One thing about making your own book, you don't only want to include
> songs you know you'll want to play, but also include songs that you
> think you *might* want to play later, and just as importantly, songs
> you think someone else might call on a gig sometime.
I had all of that in mind when I heartlessly trimmed 200. I know
that there are at least that number I'd want to cull from other sources
to replace them with. I didn't even touch a lot of the Broadway tunes,
though I've never cared for "I Love You" called, for instance.
There's always the additional factor: I don't know anything about tune
X, but when I bump into somebody transfixed by it, it becomes a
favorite. That's cool. I'd hope THEY would shlep it around in their
own book. :-)
> Otherwise you'll be back to lugging around six books in no time.
That's the quest--a single book of feasible material.
Jurupari
Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
I love doing that song. It's one where I can blow on form rather than changes
and pull it off
> Nostalgia in Times Square Mingus, Charles
nother solo piece
>> Pensativa Fischer, Clare
Gotta have it! only song I do in F#
>> Prince of Darkness
Again, love it and won't discard it.
>> Senor Mouse Corea, Chick
I take the A and B sections and butt it up against La Fiesta - quite a workout.
I only commented on a few. Some I've always wanted to do, like most of the
Shorter stuff, and some, quite a few, actually, I've done in years past,
mainly the fusion and Burton-Jarrett tunes.
They're getting old, but not as old as the other stuff I play, and a lot of
them are very challenging for me to play, and even to play on. And pure fun
solo fingerstyle. Well, not pure, a lot of frustration and work but worth it
to me.
Clif Kuplen
Gerry
<mra...@cox.net> wrote:
> > Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> > like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> > can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> > Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
>
> You mean Chelsea Bells, right?
No. Despite the fact that folks won't play Chelsea Bridge, I'm keeping
it in *my* book anyway.
> Here's the ones I'd keep as from your list, based on tunes people I know
> play (leaving out many very cool tunes of course):
That's assumed. If I was Carla Bley, I'd have a problem with the
excise list myself.
[snip]
> > Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne (you'd be surprised at
> how many people I play with)
Hey, I use to be in rehearsal bands too--I'm not surprised that you
might well play many of these tunes a few times more. :-)
> > Peaches En Regalia Zappa, Frank (nobody plays it, but I
> like this tune too much)
In the larger picture, do you (who started me thinking about the
"update" process anyway), think this should be in the Real Book 2000?
Bear in mind I snipped a number of tunes I like and have played
occasionally. But then how much Shorter, Ellington and Parker do I
really need to lug around in life? Especially when others won't/can't
do them? If I've only got around 400 tunes, I can't imagine it should
be 5% Parker. I figure 3-5 heads are enough.
Jurupari
...meant chopin - my bad
clif
Myth
>
> > > Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne (you'd be
surprised at
> > how many people I play with)
>
> Hey, I use to be in rehearsal bands too--I'm not surprised that you
> might well play many of these tunes a few times more. :-)
>
> > > Peaches En Regalia Zappa, Frank (nobody plays it,
but I
> > like this tune too much)
Oh yeah.
> In the larger picture, do you (who started me thinking about the
> "update" process anyway), think this should be in the Real Book 2000?
> Bear in mind I snipped a number of tunes I like and have played
> occasionally. But then how much Shorter, Ellington and Parker do I
> really need to lug around in life?
I don't mean to sound arrogant, but it depends on what kind of player you
want to be. I just love it when people show up with a big fat book, so you
also get to hear and/or do not so often done tunes, and will be able to play
requests. Compared to the amount of other gears you get to lug around, I
think of books as a minor problem, pun not intended ;-)
Gerry
Hanrahan <pth...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Why on earth would you want to exclude any of these tunes?
1) I only want to carry one book
2) I want to play non-Real Book tunes in my life
3) I don't play them, and others don't either
4) I don't like them.
Clearly not every tune falls into all these categories.
> Just because they don't get called at your local jam sessions doesn't
> mean that they shouldn't be.
True enough. Conversely, just because a tune isn't in the Real Book
doesn't mean it shouldn't get called. But unless I get it in there it
will never be a "standard". And in order to get it in there,
something's gotta go. Or everybody's gotta carry 6 books.
> Don't let someone else's 'unhipness' stop you from playing these
> tunes.
Hip wasn't a criterion. Most of the tunes I struck, I don't
like to play. I Remember Clifford I like. But I don't like *playing*
it. Many do. Good to know. That's why I asked.
I really like I Remember Bill, but since it's not in the Real Book,
nobody does it--nor will they ever.
> Usually you stop bringing fake book's around with when you get a
> bunch of tunes under your belt. Say 50 or so. And I mean really know
> them. Be able to play them in any key, even transposing it the middle
> of the song. Play it in any style Swing, Bossa, Waltz, ect... Know
> the Intro's, Coda's and Interludes. Own copies of the most popular
> recordings, at the very least have heard a few versions. At that
> point the Book's are just kind of there for reference, and who wants
> a reference book with less information.
Provided you're a solo, yes. If you're going to play with other
players that don't have the same 50 tunes etched in their brain, then
you gotta have chart. It would be nice if nobody ever needed a book to
communicate with their brethren and sistren. But we do and that's the
main reason the RB will never die.
> Case in point, who needs a chart for "Blue Bossa', or 'Impression's.
> If some one said, " Hey lets try Impression in G" could you do it?
> You want to make your fake book liter/smaller? Take out the tunes
> you already know!
Again others don't know some of the tunes I do. That's why having a
resource like the Real Book is such a boon. Unfortunately it hasn't
evolved with us over time. As some have posited, the RB is not going
away. Period. If you want any new material you'll have to put it in
the Real Book to wake anybody up.
True there are good tunes I culled. Hey--they had their 30 years in the
spotlight. At least a FEW of them could step aside, no?
Gerry
<juru...@aol.com> wrote:
> I only commented on a few. Some I've always wanted to do, like most of the
> Shorter stuff, and some, quite a few, actually, I've done in years past,
> mainly the fusion and Burton-Jarrett tunes.
>
> They're getting old, but not as old as the other stuff I play, and a lot of
> them are very challenging for me to play, and even to play on. And pure fun
> solo fingerstyle. Well, not pure, a lot of frustration and work but worth it
> to me.
Thanks very much for your time and comments, Clif. More than anything
else it makes me want to hear your solo act!
Gerry
Recordame
Stolen Moments
Dolphin Dance
ESP
Afro Blue
I Remember Clifford
Ceora
Nicas Dream
Nefertiti
Litha
Thanks very much for your consideration and comments, guys!
Jurupari
>else it makes me want to hear your solo act!
>
Well, you'd hear mistakes too - I'm never spotless.
I usually get pretty inspired playing for an audience that includes some
guitarists who play their instrument well, even though it's kind of scary.
They're a tough bunch but they're also likely to appreciate the work you put
into yer stuff, even if they woulda done it better. :o)
Clif
Alan Young
<222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote:
> These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
> are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
Well, I've ditched the whole book--in fact, I never owned one. I get
all my tunes from Sher books and/or HLeonard fake books. There's maybe
half-a-dozen photocopies I've copped from Real Book and Aebersold.
So I have *my own* compilation.
That said, here's what I'd keep from your list.
> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
> I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Reflections Monk, Thelonious
> Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver
You can't be serious. I play these *every day*. They are among the
great tunes of the century.
> As Time Goes By Hupfeld, Herman
On restaurant and private gigs I get lots of requests for this. It's
still a necessity.
> Black Narcissus Henderson, Joe
> Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
> Peace Silver, Horace
> Peggy's Blue Skylight Mingus, Charles
> Pensativa Fischer, Clare
> Wildflower Shorter, Wayne
> Windows Corea, Chick
These are keepers. I'm working on Black Nile with my band now.
> E.S.P. Shorter, Wayne
> Equinox Coltrane, John
> Fables of Faubus Mingus, Charles
> Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
Way too important historically to omit.
> Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
Not my thing, but horn players like it.
> La Fiesta Corea, Chick
> Passion Dance Tyner, McCoy
> Upper Manhattan Medical Group Strayhorn, Billy
I'd like to play these. Every book should have a few tunes that are
admired, even if most people can't play them, to give us something to
strive for. My trio is working on UMMG now.
I had no idea that there was so much padding in the RB. But you are
being *too* austere, I think.
--
Alan
http://www.hummingbear.net/~aayoung/Jazz/jazz.html
"The whole point of performance is that at the end of the night you have
found something that you didn't know at the beginning of the night."
--Paul Bley
Adam Bravo
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
> In article <k7nmb.84569$Ms2.83286@fed1read03>, Adam Bravo
> <mra...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> > > like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> > > can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> > > Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
> >
> > You mean Chelsea Bells, right?
>
> No. Despite the fact that folks won't play Chelsea Bridge, I'm keeping
> it in *my* book anyway.
I was confused because I hear quite a few people play Chelsea Bridge.
> > Here's the ones I'd keep as from your list, based on tunes people I know
> > play (leaving out many very cool tunes of course):
>
> That's assumed. If I was Carla Bley, I'd have a problem with the
> excise list myself.
>
> [snip]
>
> > > Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne (you'd be
surprised at
> > how many people I play with)
>
> Hey, I use to be in rehearsal bands too--I'm not surprised that you
> might well play many of these tunes a few times more. :-)
I don't think I've ever played this tune in anything that might qualify as a
"rehearsal band."
> > > Peaches En Regalia Zappa, Frank (nobody plays it,
but I
> > like this tune too much)
>
> In the larger picture, do you (who started me thinking about the
> "update" process anyway), think this should be in the Real Book 2000?
> Bear in mind I snipped a number of tunes I like and have played
> occasionally. But then how much Shorter, Ellington and Parker do I
> really need to lug around in life? Especially when others won't/can't
> do them? If I've only got around 400 tunes, I can't imagine it should
> be 5% Parker. I figure 3-5 heads are enough.
No, I put Peaches en Regalia in there facetiously. Nobody ever plays it, but
I like it. I think so many of Parker's tunes are standards that the 5%
figure is not too far off. I think many of them are similar, true, but I was
going by commonly played songs, not my own taste.
Marc Sabatella
Seems there is an awful lot of agreement as to which of your deletions
should be kept.
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote:
> Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
I like this type of discussion, if for no other reason than to see what
pieces others are doing. "Beauty And The Beast" was a ubiquitous jam
session piece when I lived in the Bay Area, but I never hear anyone else
do it. Chelsea Bridge is indeed one of the less-often played tunes in
my experience, but I'm glad for the few times it is called. I've
mentioned "Falling Grace" in the past as probably the best tune in the
RB that hardly anyone knows. Tunes like that are always worth keeping
just to allow for *some* individuality from session to session. If it's
a good tune with a good chart, I would not mind having it available,
although obviously you would want to prioritize. I'm putting in my
votes for the ones I personally enjoy hearing or playing and would miss
if they were gone. But of course, like you say, I can (and do) always
bring my own book with my own favorites.
The tunes that really bother me are the ones where the chart just
doesn't do the tune justice - either because it is so error-ridden that
it is practically a different composition ("Blue Trane", "Round
Midnight", "Waltz For Debby", and "Well, You Needn't", for example), or
because there just isn't enough information in the chart to allow
someone who doesn't already know the tune to play it - many of the
Mingus and more modern tunes (Bley. McLaughlin, Metheny) tunes fall into
that category. And there are some charts that are just train wrecks
waiting to happen - Dear Old Stockholm, My Favorite Things - either
because the chart just doesn't reflect how people seem to expect the
tunes to go or because they are inherently confusing or complex charts.
So actually, there are a number of tunes *not* on your list that I'd
trash - like all the ones mentioned in this paragraph.
> Some pianists might really have a problem ditching the Corea and
> Hancock, but U never hear pianists play them anyway.
Some yes, some no. I've marked the ones I'd keep.
Here goes - my votes for tunes to keep (some I've mentioned simply to
register my agreement that they should go):
> African Flower Ellington, Duke
> Afro Blue Santamaria, Mongo
I'd want both of these; the second seems practically indispensible, but
I play in Latin jazz groups a lot.
> Around Again Bley, Carla
> As Time Goes By Hupfeld, Herman
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
"Around Again" for me is probably like "Chelsea Bridge" for you, but
it's also one where having heard the original helps, and of course, you
have to like this sort of piece in the first place. The other tunes I
don't know why you'd want to eliminate. [ OK, "As Time Goes By" was a
mistake, you said, and you just want want too much Bird. Not sure why
not - keeps you form playing the same handful of his tunes over and
over. ]
> Beauty and the Beast Shorter, Wayne
Keep it and just insist folks learn it :-)
> Bessie's Blues Coltrane, John
Keep. Even though it isn't called that often, it's easy enough and fun.
> Black Narcissus Henderson, Joe
> Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
These two are done pretty often in my experience, and the charts work
pretty well even though they aren't perfect.
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
Again, can't imagine why you'd delete this.
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
Another one that I'd consider practically indispensible.
> Deluge Shorter, Wayne
Good tune, good chart.
> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
Absolutely indispensible.
> E.S.P. Shorter, Wayne
In the borderline train wreck category.
> Eighty One Carter, Ron
Good tune, semi-decent chart.
> Fables of Faubus Mingus, Charles
In the potential train wreck category, but worth keeping for similar
reasons as Beauty And The Beast.
> Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum Shorter, Wayne
Another good tune with a decent chart.
> Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
Mixed feelings. The tune is played reasonably often, although the chart
is pretty far off.
> Hassan's Dream Golson, Benny
One guy I knew would call this one often. It is a nice tune. Lump this
in with Chelsea Bridge.
> I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
Great tune, decent chart.
> Icarus Towner, Ralph
Give this one a shot if you haven't. Interesting song.
> Inner Urge Henderson, Joe
This gets called reasonably often, but this leans is a contender for the
"Speak No Evil" award for tunes that don't tend to work well in jam
sessions.
> Interplay Evans, Bill
I like this one too, but it's tough to pull off in most situations.
> Isotope Henderson, Joe
Nice blues head. keep it.
> Jinrikisha Henderson, Joe
See "Inner Urge".
> La Fiesta Corea, Chick
Got to have this for the benefit of those with the balls to try to pull
it off. not something you can expect to just have work on a pickup gig,
but with the right musicians, it's great.
> Litha Corea, Chick
See above. OK, this one almost requires rehearsal.
> Little B's Poem Hutcherson, Bobby
Nice tune, rarely called.
> Lonnie's Lament Coltrane, John
Seems to be played reasonably often, and the chart works well.
> Lucky Southern Jarrett, Keith
I've actually never heard the original, but I've heard it played at gigs
often enough. Chart works well enough.
> Memories of Tomorrow Jarrett, Keith
This works great for solo piano, although I rarely hear it performed in
any other context, so I suppose it can go.
> Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
Nice tune, chart is off but still works, but of course, no one knows
what to do with it.
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
This gets called a lot. Too bad about the chart...
> Nostalgia in Times Square Mingus, Charles
This gets called quite a bit too, it seems to me. Aside from being in
the wrong key, the chart works fine, too. Keep.
> Passion Dance Tyner, McCoy
> Peace Silver, Horace
Both great tunes in their own way, and while the chart on Passion Dance
is off a bit on the bridge, it still works.
> Peggy's Blue Skylight Mingus, Charles
See "Fables".
> Pensativa Fischer, Clare
Beautiful tune.
> Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
Gets called; not one of my personal favorites, though.
> Raven, The Jarrett, Keith
To my knowlegde, I've never heard anyone but me play this tune, but it
rocks.
> Recordame Henderson, Joe
A jam session standard, and doens't usually fare as poorly as "Speak No
Evil". No reason not to keep, just because the intro doesn't work.
> Reflections Monk, Thelonious
Wonderful tune, decent chart.
> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
Jam session disaster, usually. But here, I might keep it just because
you *know* it is going to get called, and you might as well give it a
fighting chance.
> Sorcerer, The Hancock, Herbie
Train wreck city.
> Spiral Dance Jarrett, Keith
I like this tune a lot too, but the chart doesn't work well enough.
> Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver
Well, it's been played to death, to be sure - is that also why you're
striking the Bird tunes?
> Sweet Georgia Bright Lloyd, Charles
I have a soft spot for this as I think it is the first tune I ever
played out of this book on a gig, almost 20 years ago. Nice tune, chart
works. Keep.
> Tell Me a Bedtime Story Hancock, Herbie
Beautiful tune, chart is only a little off (mostly in that it just have
enough of the original nuances), but those 5/4 bars make it hard to pull
off. I'd personally keep it.
> Tones for Joan's Bones Corea, Chick
Chart is further off than I'd like, but it still works well enough that
I don't mind hearing it played.
> Upper Manhattan Medical Groui Strayhorn, Billy
My vote for the best tune that I've never heard anyone play from the RB.
> What Was Corea, Chick
I love this tune, and the chart is surprisingly good. This falls into
the "Falling Grace" category of tunes that I like to have around just to
give a break to the chestnuts.
> Wildflower Shorter, Wayne
Nothing wrong with this tune, but since it doesn't get played, I have no
problem removing it - although I'm sure it is someone else's "Falling
Grace".
> Windows Corea, Chick
Wrong key, but is probably easier for most people that way. A few other
slight problems in the chart, but again, it works well enough I don't
mind playing from it.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Marc Sabatella
> "Modern" can be a vague word. I would think of all the Burton and
Bley
> and such in the Real Book as modern. But it's true that it's over 25
> years old. I'm not sure the roster of names and tunes could so easily
> be cobbled together representing the last 25 as the previous 25.
>
> Nevertheless, Sher's newest: All Jazz Fakebook, seems to cover this
> exactly, as does their first; "The World's Greatest Fakebook". Though
> it just barely makes the 25 year cut-off.
Haven't seen "All Jazz". I suppose there goes another $40. As for
"World's Greatest",
while the book is only 25 or so, most of the the tunes in it are still
somewhat older, and of the ones that are in that ballpark, Chuck didn't
seem to do a great job of predicting or influencing what the new
standards would be.
This is a recurring question - what newer tunes seem to be attaining
Standard status. In my experience, this really ends up being, what
recent tunes does any given person happen to like and play; I honestly
don't see any real consensus happening on many tunes. Tom Harrell's
"Sail Away" is probably the closest thing; to a lesser exent, Don
Grolnick's "Nothing Personal". Ones I always put in my personal vote
for are Tony Williams' "Sister Cheryl", Dave Holland's "Homecoming", and
Charlie Haden's "First Song", although admittedly the latter two don't
actually get played by folks other than the composer that much (but
they've each recorded them three or more times).
Jurupari
>
>To my knowlegde, I've never heard anyone but me play this tune, but it
>rocks.
I used to play it with Chip Crawford when the album first came out. You're
right, it rocks bigtime. We used to do Grow Your Own and Fortune Smiles from
the same album too. They were all a lotta fun.
The real book charts aren't complete for either I dont think. We got em off
the record.
Clif Kuplen
Bob Agnew
only things I play or are tunes I want to learn:
Au Privave Parker, Charlie
Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
Ceora Morgan, Lee
Equinox Coltrane, John
Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
Road Song Montgomery, Wes
Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
but on the other hand, I can't find anyone to play them with so I guess it
really doesn't matter. In addition, the changes in the Real Book leave a
lot to be desired.
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:241020031807171005%222...@adelphia.net.invalid...
> These are the tunes I'd ditch as not critical to the Real Book. Some
> are really great tunes that nobody ever calls or plays except some
> halting rehearsal band-run through before eventual disregard.
>
> Some are clearly drek. Others, like Beauty and the Beast, I really
> like, but nobody will play with me and a lot of rhythm sections just
> can't get with the groove. Others, that they also won't play, like
> Chelsea Bridge, I inexplcably want there.
>
> But clearly tastes very. Are there any below that you'd be
> dissapointed not to be able to find in the one book you tote around?
> Something you call that others carp about?
>
> Some pianists might really have a problem ditching the Corea and
> Hancock, but U never hear pianists play them anyway.
>
> Any feedback welcome. I'm pondering my own fakebook that suits my
> personal needs, but continues to leverage the tunes that people will
> always want to play. I'm concluding none on the list below really
> qualify.
>
>
> 12-4 2-4/Duplicities Stock, Jack
> 502 Blues Rowles, Jimmy
> African Flower Ellington, Duke
> Afro Blue Santamaria, Mongo
> And Now, The Queen Bley, Carla
> And On the Third Day Gibbs, Michael
> April Joy Metheny, Pat
> Arise, Her Eyes Swallow, Steve
> Armageddon Shorter, Wayne
> Around Again Bley, Carla
> As Time Goes By Hupfeld, Herman
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Ay, Arriba! Balcomb, Stu
> Ballet Gibbs, Michael
> Batterie Bley, Carla
> Beauty and the Beast Shorter, Wayne
> Beneath It All Anderson, Gary
> Bessie's Blues Coltrane, John
> Big Nick Coltrane, John
> Bitter Suite in the Ozone Moses, Bob
> Black Diamond Kirk, Roland
> Black Narcissus Henderson, Joe
> Black Nile Shorter, Wayne
> Blessed Relief Zappa, Frank
> Blue Comedy Gibbs, Michael
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
> Boston Marathon Burton, Gary
> Brainville Ra, Sun
> Broadway Blues Coleman, Ornette
> Brownout Burton, Gary
> Call for All Demons, A Ra, Sun
> Canyon Song Towner, Ralph
> Captain Marvel Corea, Chick
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
> Chelsea Bells Swallow, Steve
> Chicken Feathers Kuhn, Steve
> Children's Song Corea, Chick
> Chippie Coleman, Ornette
> Colors of Chloe Weber, Eberhard
> Como En Vietnam Swallow, Steve
> Conception Shearing, George
> Conference of the Birds Holland, Dave
> Coral Jarrett, Keith
> Country Roads Burton, Gary
> Crescent Coltrane, John
> Day Waves Corea, Chick
> Days and Nights Waiting Jarrett, Keith
> De Pois De Amor O'vazio Shorter, Wayne
> Delores Shorter, Wayne
> Deluge Shorter, Wayne
> Desert Air Corea, Chick
> Doin' the Pig Swallow, Steve
> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
> Domino Biscuit Swallow, Steve
> E.S.P. Shorter, Wayne
> Ecclusiastics Mingus, Charles
> Eiderdown Swallow, Steve
> Eighty One Carter, Ron
> Empathy Niles, Richard
> Equinox Coltrane, John
> Equipoise Cowell, Stanley
> Fables of Faubus Mingus, Charles
> Family Joy, A Gibbs, Michael
> Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum Shorter, Wayne
> Feelings and Things Gibbs, Michael
> Fields We Know, The Jarrett, Keith
> Flags Bley, Carla
> Follow Your Heart McLaughlin, John
> For Heavens Sake Meyer
> Fortune Smiles Jarrett, Keith
> Four Winds Holland, Dave
> Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
> Gary's Waltz McFarland, Gary
> Gemini Heath, Jimmy
> General Mojo's Well Laid Plan Swallow, Steve
> Good Evening Mr and Mrs America Guerin, John
> Green Mountains Swallow, Steve
> Grow Your Own Jarrett, Keith
> Hassan's Dream Golson, Benny
> Henninger Flats Prichard, David
> Herzog Hutcherson, Bobby
> Hold Out Your Hand Kuhn, Steve
> Hotel Hello Swallow, Steve
> Hotel Overture Swallow, Steve
> Hotel Vamp Swallow, Steve
> Hullo, Bolinas Swallow, Steve
> I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
> Icarus Towner, Ralph
> Ictus Bley, Carla
> Ida Lupino Bley, Carla
> Indian Lady Ellis, Don
> Inner Urge Henderson, Joe
> Inside in Gibbs, Michael
> Interplay Evans, Bill
> Intrepid Fox Hubbard, Freddie
> Iris Shorter, Wayne
> Isotope Henderson, Joe
> It's a Raggy Waltz Brubeck, Dave
> Jelly Roll Mingus, Charles
> Jinrikisha Henderson, Joe
> Jump Monk Mingus, Charles
> June 15th, 1967 Gibbs, Michael
> La Fiesta Corea, Chick
> Las Vegas Tango Evans, Gil
> Leroy the Magician Burton, Gary
> Lie Awake Coodley, Mitch
> Litha Corea, Chick
> Little B's Poem Hutcherson, Bobby
> Little Niles Hubbard, Freddie
> Little Waltz Carter, Ron
> Liturgy Gibbs, Michael
> Long As You Know You're Living Yours Jarrett, Keith
> Lonnie's Lament Coltrane, John
> Look to the Sky Jobim, Antonio Carlos
> Looking Back Niles, Richard
> Lucky Southern Jarrett, Keith
> Magician in You, The Jarrett, Keith
> Mallet Man Beck, Gordon
> May Dance Holland, Dave
> Memories of Tomorrow Jarrett, Keith
> Memphis Underground Mann, Herbie
> Mevlevia Goodrick, Mick
> Midwestern Nights Dream Metheny, Pat
> Missouri Uncompromised Metheny, Pat
> Molten Glass Farrell, Joe
> Montage Balcomb, Stu
> Moon Germs Farrell, Joe
> Moonchild Hudson, Will
> Mother of the Dead Man Bley, Carla
> Mysterious Traveler Shorter, Wayne
> Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Nimbus McClure, Ron
> Nonsequence Gibbs, Michael
> Nostalgia in Times Square Mingus, Charles
> Olhos De Gato Bley, Carla
> One Finger Snap Hancock, Herbie
> Open Your Eyes, You Can Fly Corea, Chick
> Orbits Shorter, Wayne
> Passion Dance Tyner, McCoy
> Peace Silver, Horace
> Peaches En Regalia Zappa, Frank
> Pearlies Swine Kuhn, Steve
> Pee Wee Williams, Tony
> Peggy's Blue Skylight Mingus, Charles
> Sweet Georgia Bright Lloyd, Charles
> Sweet Henry Swallow, Steve
> Sweet Rain Gibbs, Michael
> Tame Thy Pen Niles, Richard
> Tell Me a Bedtime Story Hancock, Herbie
> Think On Me Cables, George
> Three Flowers Tyner, McCoy
> Tones for Joan's Bones Corea, Chick
> Tough Talk Sample, Joe
> Train Samba McFarland, Gary
> Trance Kuhn, Steve
> Unity Village Metheny, Pat
> Unquity Road Metheny, Pat
> Untitled Gibbs, Michael
> Upper Manhattan Medical Groui Strayhorn, Billy
> Vashkar Bley, Carla
> Walter L. Burton, Gary
> Waltz Metheny, Pat
> Waltz for a Lovely Wife Woods, Phil
> Waltzin' Brasil, Victor
> What Was Corea, Chick
> Where Are You? McHugh, Jimmy
> Wildflower Shorter, Wayne
> Windows Corea, Chick
> Wings of Karma McLaughlin, John
>
> -- End List --
>
Gerry
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
[snipped liberally wherever necessary. I also removed a number of
passages to which I responded "me too".]
> BTW, I wrote up my response below before reading any of the others.
> Seems there is an awful lot of agreement as to which of your
> deletions should be kept.
Yeah, that's kind of heartening to think that so many are on the same
(figurative) page.
> I've mentioned "Falling Grace" in the past as probably the best tune
> in the RB that hardly anyone knows.
Note, I didn't pull that one. You're right, it never gets called but
it stays in my book for the odd chance. It's a gem.
> Tunes like that are always worth keeping
> The tunes that really bother me are the ones where the chart just
> doesn't do the tune justice - either because it is so error-ridden
> that it is practically a different composition ("Blue Trane", "Round
> Midnight", "Waltz For Debby", and "Well, You Needn't", for example),
> or because there just isn't enough information in the chart to allow
> someone who doesn't already know the tune to play it - many of the
> Mingus and more modern tunes (Bley. McLaughlin, Metheny) tunes fall
> into that category. And there are some charts that are just train
> wrecks waiting to happen - Dear Old Stockholm, My Favorite Things -
> either because the chart just doesn't reflect how people seem to
> expect the tunes to go or because they are inherently confusing or
> complex charts. So actually, there are a number of tunes *not* on
> your list that I'd trash - like all the ones mentioned in this
> paragraph.
An excellent point. And admittedly, the PC ball-and-chain demanded that
I not state a number of tunes I would pull; one should pick the brawls
they care about. Well You Needn't and Favorite Things certainly qualify
for omission in a thoughful and reasoned editing job rather than a
ham-handed hatchet job, which is what I did.
> ...and you just [don't] want want too much Bird. Not sure why not -
> keeps you form playing the same handful of his tunes over and over.
It's probably fodder for another topic: A Bird head goes by in a
flash. It's fun to play. Then you get the same old bop changes for
the next 8 minutes. Mostly, doing bop tunes is about the
changes, there's rarely much of a composition, per se. Same with the
blues of course. Does anybody really care which head is glued to the
front end of a blues?
So any gig/session that covers 15-20 Bird tunes a night is not the kind
of gig I really want. One a set at best and which ones they are hardly
matter. That's me. I could put any Parker head back in, or take it
out, I don't care--except on Confirmation and Donna Lee and a couple of
others that I put enough work into to maintain--I damn sure better do
them!
> > Deluge Shorter, Wayne
>
> Good tune, good chart.
Just for reference, if people really played them, there's hardly a tune
I'd pull by Shorter. Much like the load Parker is asked to pull--too
much. I kept sixteen of them anyway.
> > E.S.P. Shorter, Wayne
>
> In the borderline train wreck category.
That's my take too, but everybody seems to agree it needs to be there.
> > Freedom Jazz Dance Harris, Eddie
>
> Mixed feelings. The tune is played reasonably often, although the
> chart is pretty far off.
Me--I've just never liked it. It's funny how the editing process
demands you clip tunes you like (but others won't play), and keep ones
you don't like (but others demand)...
While on the topic of putting in tunes one doesn't like; I think it's
noteworthy that some tunes in the book are simply learning experiences.
One of the *vastly* important aspects of Sher's stamp is the degree to
which he gives you snatchs (frequently more) of what the bass line is.
On some of the tunes, they hardly make sense without them. It's an
excellent aspect for guitarists, keyboardists and of course bassists.
> > Icarus Towner, Ralph
>
> Give this one a shot if you haven't. Interesting song.
I had to play it--I'm a guitarist! In this case I can only handle so
much modal stuff and I find it too vague in that respect. I weary of it.
> > La Fiesta Corea, Chick
>
> Got to have this for the benefit of those with the balls to try to
> pull it off. not something you can expect to just have work on a
> pickup gig, but with the right musicians, it's great.
>
> > Litha Corea, Chick
>
> See above. OK, this one almost requires rehearsal.
These last two bring in a whole different mindset to the tune. Should
"inability to play without rehearsal" qualify as a deal-breaker? If so
there are noteworthy swaths of material, full scores in some cases,
that would exit the New Real Book series.
> > Nefertiti Shorter, Wayne
>
> Nice tune, chart is off but still works, but of course, no one knows
> what to do with it.
Bingo. True of much of the Davis stuff from the 60's.
> > Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
>
> This gets called a lot. Too bad about the chart...
A great tune. Simply being told it's supposed to be Latin would have
helped me 20 years ago. See NRB2 for a good chart.
> > Pensativa Fischer, Clare
>
> Beautiful tune.
Not unlike a lot of tunes in the same groove. A reason to jettison it
is that too many years reading flats make most reader's incapable of
navigating the thing. It always seems to go to hell.
> > Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
>
> Gets called; not one of my personal favorites, though.
Though Rollins was an early and steadfast favorite of mine, I
personally loath Oleo, Airegin and St. Thomas, while we're at it. But
you gotta be a communitarian in some matters.
> > Upper Manhattan Medical Groui Strayhorn, Billy
>
> My vote for the best tune that I've never heard anyone play from the
> RB.
And the best writer that never gets called too, while we're at it...
> > Wildflower Shorter, Wayne
>
> Nothing wrong with this tune, but since it doesn't get played, I have
> no problem removing it - although I'm sure it is someone else's
> "Falling Grace".
An apt view: many of these tunes BECAME someone's darling because of
their inclusion in this book. At a some level, I'm trying to find more
space to put more seeds.
That's for the time and energy thrown at this analysis, Marc. It's
greatly appreciated.
Gerry
<rag...@cox.net> wrote:
> I be really pissed if any of these got deleted, since they are some of the
> only things I play or are tunes I want to learn:
>
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
> Equinox Coltrane, John
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Road Song Montgomery, Wes
> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
>
> but on the other hand, I can't find anyone to play them with so I guess it
> really doesn't matter. In addition, the changes in the Real Book leave a
> lot to be desired.
Damn, Bob; remind me to avoid having you plead my death-penalty case to
the jury!
All but a couple are already back. Okay--you have one more generation
to learn them, and not one lifetime more!
Joe Finn
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:_Mlmb.127276$qj6.8...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> They have. There's a realbook Vol III that's been out for a few years. It
> even has a couple of my tunes in it.
Jack: I like the tunes that you wrote for volume III. Maybe sometime you'll
tell the group a little about writing the tunes and how they came to be
included in the real book collection. ......joe
--
Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Tasman
Material! A lot of the corea stuff goes down well.....if done right!
> Walter L. Burton, Gary
> Waltz Metheny, Pat
> Waltz for a Lovely Wife Woods, Phil
> Waltzin' Brasil, Victor
> What Was Corea, Chick
> Where Are You? McHugh, Jimmy
> Wildflower Shorter, Wayne
> Windows Corea, Chick
> Wings of Karma McLaughlin, John
>
> -- End List --
>
m b nelms
great tunes, and I've been on plenty of bandstands where they get called.
As far as the Real Book goes, Clark Terry calls it "the Wrong Book" because
it has so many errors in it. I haven't seen a recent edition of the Real
Book so corrections could have been made that I'm unaware of.
> As Time Goes By Hupfeld, Herman
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
> Conception Shearing, George
> Dolphin Dance Hancock, Herbie
> For Heavens Sake Meyer
> I Remember Clifford Golson, Benny
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
Doesn't have that great intro / send off
> Pensativa Fischer, Clare
Great song, but this version has errors.
> Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
> Played Twice Monk, Thelonious
> Recordame Henderson, Joe
> Reflections Monk, Thelonious
> Stolen Moments Nelson, Oliver
> Upper Manhattan Medical Group Strayhorn, Billy
Mark Guest
news:iaxmb.31496$gA1.10...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
(Snip)
>You want to make
>your fake book liter/smaller? Take out the tunes you already know!
Good advice!
--
Mark Guest
Mark at MarkGuest.net
www.MarkGuest.net
Patrick Hanrahan
But what I'm saying is that, eventually your going to leave the RB home.
Even the one your making now.
You say, you don't like a tune, that's cool. Don't play it. You want to
play tunes not in the real book, hey no problem here. I'm all for that. I
love learning new tunes at jam sessions. That how I learned 'Mack the
knife' Sax player called it, I said," Sorry, don't know it". He said,"no
sweat, It's really easy". He sat down at the piano, played a choruses,
Said," Got it", counted the tune off. I 'scuffed' bye the 1st couple of
chouses, but by the time we were done, I knew the tune.
Now granted it a really easy tune. And there a real art to putting together
arrangements on the fly, but it's much better then, "Can we all please turn
to page 87 in RB II for the playing of ....." Of course I would have been
at a complete lose if it had been a tune like, " Giant steps" or something
with a tricky form like" Dear old Stockholm" That when your 'hoping/
praying that there's a chart so you least have a fighting chance
My point is, you'd be surprised how many people know the same tunes. Any if
they don't, you'll be surprised how fast you can learn stuff. Jam session's
should be about learning new tunes, learning to play with people, learning
to use your ears. Not just reading out of a real book.
"Gerry" <222...@adelphia.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:251020031028155617%222...@adelphia.net.invalid...
Adam Bravo
> (snip)
This has made me go through and play a lot of these tunes, interestingly
enough. I didn't have the RB for a couple years, and I just bought another
copy about 3 months ago. I've been taking it to practically every gig I
play, but I don't think I've had to use it more than 2 or so times. Some
very interesting stuff.
OldJazzBass
LOL
I'd probably fall over laughing if some poindexter actually said this on stage.
DBrophy479
>> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
>
>Jam session disaster, usually. But here, I might keep it just because
>you *know* it is going to get called, and you might as well give it a
>fighting chance.
Just curious.Does it usually fall apart because rhythm section players don't
know the groove,or...?
I love that groove.
Gerry
Hanrahan <pth...@optonline.net> wrote:
> You make some good points. Yes there a lot of dead weight in any
> real book. But what I'm saying is that, eventually your going to
> leave the RB home.
When you get to the session it's on the stands. The players are
calling tunes from it. If you leave it at home it just means you'll
get a neck-ache reading over a bass-players shoulder.
> Even the one your making now.
Certainly at a personal level all things change. I can only imagine
what strange and curious tunes I might have encountered over the years,
at gigs and sessions, if the Real Book had grown, been replaced or
discarded along the line.
> You say, you don't like a tune, that's cool. Don't play it. You
> want to play tunes not in the real book, hey no problem here. I'm
> all for that. I love learning new tunes at jam sessions. That how I
> learned 'Mack the knife' Sax player called it, I said," Sorry, don't
> know it". He said,"no sweat, It's really easy". He sat down at the
> piano, played a choruses, Said," Got it", counted the tune off. I
> 'scuffed' bye the 1st couple of chouses, but by the time we were
> done, I knew the tune.
The Real Book has made a real dent in the process. The description you
give is not as frequent as it was pre-Real Book. At some point it is
only the tunes that can't easily be learned this way that are the most
rewarding, curious tunes with an odd trick or two.
> Now granted it a really easy tune. And there a real art to putting
> together arrangements on the fly, but it's much better then, "Can we
> all please turn to page 87 in RB II for the playing of ....."
I'm not sure what you man by better. Calling a page number isn't a
painful process to me if I get to play a tune that's more substantial
than, bop, blues and the quick-and-dirtiy. It would be great if every
session everybody brought 4 of their own charts. Of course it would be
good if they had a good copyist skills and the right change...
> Of course I would have been at a complete lose if it had been a tune
> like, " Giant steps" or something with a tricky form like" Dear old
> Stockholm"
Well, that's a compelling bonus of not having the Real Book--no more
Giant Steps. Maybe I'll have to rethink this again.... :-)
> That when your 'hoping/ praying that there's a chart so you least
> have a fighting chance
>
> My point is, you'd be surprised how many people know the same tunes.
I most certainly would not. And I know where they learned them; the
Real Book.
> Any if they don't, you'll be surprised how fast you can learn stuff.
> Jam session's should be about learning new tunes, learning to play
> with people, learning to use your ears. Not just reading out of a
> real book.
Learning new tunes isn't explicitly about not-reading. The Real Book
is just another clot of tunes. My problem is it won't go grow or go
away. I'd prefer the later; but at this point I'm addressing the
former.
That said, I sense it's time to begin pointing out that this is not
about me. Everybody is free to do or not do anything they like with
these or any other tunes, on paper or by ear. Consider any unnamed
option viable.
Bob Agnew
didn't know it either. Not a good idea.
"DBrophy479" <dbrop...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20031026122018...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> Marc wrote:
>
> >> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
> >
Murray Roberts
Great song, but other than the song arrangement, count the chords used
in it.
I think we'll discard that...
Mur
Gerry
<hinemur...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> From New Real Book 1, Chain of Fools as sung by Aretha Franklin.
>
> Great song, but other than the song arrangement, count the chords used
> in it.
Count the changes in Impressions...
> I think we'll discard that...
Do it, bro. Me, I LOVE playing this tune. If the band gets the groove
right it just lopes along in this really relaxed bluesy stride.
On the other hand if the players don't know it, it's just a total joke.
I think my two phrases above can cover a lot of great/hideous material.
MBR
> I be really pissed if any of these got deleted, since they are some of the
> only things I play or are tunes I want to learn:
>
> Au Privave Parker, Charlie
> Blues for Alice Parker, Charlie
> Ceora Morgan, Lee
> Equinox Coltrane, John
> Nica's Dream Silver, Horace
> Road Song Montgomery, Wes
> Sidewinder Morgan, Lee
>
> but on the other hand, I can't find anyone to play them with so I guess it
> really doesn't matter. In addition, the changes in the Real Book leave a
> lot to be desired.
>
I do some playing with a B3 player who likes to play Road Song. He
wants me to play the melody in octaves like Wes which kinda bugs me
cause I feel I'm doing some sort of a Wes revival thing. But it is a
very cool sound indeed! Anyway, I'm glad I learned the tune correctly
some years ago from a non-Real book source. The first few times we
played it we kept getting messed up on the B section. When I checked
his Real Book version, I found there were only seven measures in the B
section...it's missing the B-7 E7 chord change. geezzzz....that's one
of the coolest changes in the whole darn tune.
-Mark R.
Gerry
<jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I do some playing with a B3 player who likes to play Road Song. He
> wants me to play the melody in octaves like Wes which kinda bugs me
> cause I feel I'm doing some sort of a Wes revival thing.
I think it's a bummer that one can't play octaves without us concluding
with "pat. pending Wes Montgomery, Inc.". I loved his agility with
these, but when Iuse octaves it has nothing to do with him. Still,
someone has to comment on it.
One of the things Iike about octaves is the degree to which it limits
your physical scope and speed. It makes you reallyl concentrate on the
line.
> But it is a
> very cool sound indeed! Anyway, I'm glad I learned the tune correctly
> some years ago from a non-Real book source. The first few times we
> played it we kept getting messed up on the B section. When I checked
> his Real Book version, I found there were only seven measures in the B
> section...it's missing the B-7 E7 chord change. geezzzz....that's one
> of the coolest changes in the whole darn tune.
Another charming "feature" of the RB.
bob r
222...@adelphia.net.invalid wrote on 10/27/03 10:58 AM:
> I think it's a bummer that one can't play octaves without us concluding
> with "pat. pending Wes Montgomery, Inc.". I loved his agility with
> these, but when Iuse octaves it has nothing to do with him. Still,
> someone has to comment on it.
Yeah, that riles me too. Every damn time I play octaves in a solo, some
"hip-sta" will sidle up and say (with a knowing look), "I can tell who
YOU've listened to..."
I always say, "Yeah, I love Django Reinhardt..." :-)
--
Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD available: http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
MBR
>
> flash. It's fun to play. Then you get the same old bop changes for
> the next 8 minutes. Mostly, doing bop tunes is about the
> changes, there's rarely much of a composition, per se. Same with the
> blues of course. Does anybody really care which head is glued to the
> front end of a blues?
>
> So any gig/session that covers 15-20 Bird tunes a night is not the kind
> of gig I really want. One a set at best and which ones they are hardly
> matter. That's me. I could put any Parker head back in, or take it
> out, I don't care--except on Confirmation and Donna Lee and a couple of
> others that I put enough work into to maintain--I damn sure better do
> them!
On most club and restaurant gigs I play, the other musicians are
usually not really that excited about playing bop tunes. With a few
notable exceptions, I think of most of the famous Parker tunes as
demonstrations of bop technique rather than as great vehicles for
improv. I'm sure many will disagree, but I try to play off the melody,
so it's more interesting to play off a melodic tune like Miss Jones
than it is to run rhythm changes, or to play a head like Barbados or
Billies Bounce and then just play blues for the next ten or 15
minutes.
-Mark R.
Jonathan Byrd
> "Patrick Hanrahan" <pth...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:iaxmb.31496$gA1.10...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> (Snip)
> >You want to make
> >your fake book liter/smaller? Take out the tunes you already know!
>
> Good advice!
Maybe someday that obviously sound principle will be applied to
abridged dictionaries. I cannot understand why they omit the words
that most people would need to look up, and keep words that everyone
knows, like "run" and "go."
Jurupari
>"hip-sta" will sidle up and say (with a knowing look), "I can tell who
>YOU've listened to..."
>
>I always say, "Yeah, I love Django Reinhardt..." :-)
>--
Ha!....but I listened twice!
I started putting that extra interval in the middle of them awhile back and
using tremelo, but that just shifts the identity.
Alan Young
> Anyway, I'm glad I learned the tune correctly
> some years ago from a non-Real book source. The first few times we
> played it we kept getting messed up on the B section. When I checked
> his Real Book version, I found there were only seven measures in the B
> section...
Yeah, that (and a few dozen other examples like it) is why I've avoided
the RB for all these years. I've had to invest in more books to get
accurate charts, and more CDs to learn tunes from good performances,
but at least when I play a tune I know where it's going.
--
Alan
http://www.hummingbear.net/~aayoung/Jazz/jazz.html
"Pray every day to every god."
-- Kurt Elling, "Resolution"
MBR
> In article <b04a13f9.03102...@posting.google.com>, MBR
> <jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I do some playing with a B3 player who likes to play Road Song. He
> > wants me to play the melody in octaves like Wes which kinda bugs me
> > cause I feel I'm doing some sort of a Wes revival thing.
>
> I think it's a bummer that one can't play octaves without us concluding
> with "pat. pending Wes Montgomery, Inc.". I loved his agility with
> these, but when Iuse octaves it has nothing to do with him. Still,
> someone has to comment on it.
>
> One of the things Iike about octaves is the degree to which it limits
> your physical scope and speed. It makes you reallyl concentrate on the
> line.
I often use octaves to play heads of tunes, but in this case it's a
Wes tune so I'm concious of being "overly imitative." ....but it's
fun to play and people seem to enjoy hearing it.
Gerry
> > I think it's a bummer that one can't play octaves without us concluding
> > with "pat. pending Wes Montgomery, Inc.". I loved his agility with
> > these, but when Iuse octaves it has nothing to do with him. Still,
> > someone has to comment on it.
>
> Yeah, that riles me too. Every damn time I play octaves in a solo, some
> "hip-sta" will sidle up and say (with a knowing look), "I can tell who
> YOU've listened to..."
>
> I always say, "Yeah, I love Django Reinhardt..." :-)
Speaking of which: I've started periodically doing one of those
shuffle-pick glisses that move 5-6 frets to a high note. This is a
*trademark" Django lick. I know if I do that there's no way in hell
someone's not gonna typify me as a "old-schoool" player. No matter,
the next phrase is all fourths....
Gerry
> > So any gig/session that covers 15-20 Bird tunes a night is not the kind
> > of gig I really want. One a set at best and which ones they are hardly
> > matter. That's me. I could put any Parker head back in, or take it
> > out, I don't care--except on Confirmation and Donna Lee and a couple of
> > others that I put enough work into to maintain--I damn sure better do
> > them!
> ======================
> On most club and restaurant gigs I play, the other musicians are
> usually not really that excited about playing bop tunes. With a few
> notable exceptions, I think of most of the famous Parker tunes as
> demonstrations of bop technique rather than as great vehicles for
> improv. I'm sure many will disagree, but I try to play off the melody,
> so it's more interesting to play off a melodic tune like Miss Jones
> than it is to run rhythm changes, or to play a head like Barbados or
> Billies Bounce and then just play blues for the next ten or 15
> minutes.
You get a total "ditto" out of me in all respects. That said, I gotta
admit I like ripping through a too-fast bop tune (If still within my
speed range). It's exhilirating. But I recognize it's a wank-fest.
On the other hand I say more in 8 bars of most any "How Long Has This
Been Going On" than I do in eight choruses of a bop head.
Both are fun though...
sgordon
: On most club and restaurant gigs I play, the other musicians are
: usually not really that excited about playing bop tunes. With a few
: notable exceptions, I think of most of the famous Parker tunes as
: demonstrations of bop technique rather than as great vehicles for
: improv. I'm sure many will disagree, but I try to play off the melody,
Not all of Parker's tunes were based on existing changes.
Confirmation, for example.
Scott
Marc Sabatella
> It's probably fodder for another topic: A Bird head goes by in a
> flash. It's fun to play. Then you get the same old bop changes for
> the next 8 minutes. Mostly, doing bop tunes is about the
> changes, there's rarely much of a composition, per se. Same with the
> blues of course. Does anybody really care which head is glued to the
> front end of a blues?
I do in the long run - given that I *know* every gig is going to involve
playing at least one blues and at least one bop tune, and often more
(like one per set), I'd prefer having enough to choose from that I don't
get tired of playing the same 3 Bird tunes and same 3 blues heads night
after night.
BTW, although we're talking about customizing a book for our own
purposes, there are two different ways of looking at this that would
affect choices. Namely, is this a book I bring so I can give to someone
*else* on the bandstand when I call a tune they don't know, or a book I
bring for my own benefit so I can handle it when they call a tune *I*
don't know? The latter would be a much different - and smaller - book
for me than what I think we are actually discussing. "Chelsea Bridge"
would be a definite keeper, simply because I don't know it well enough
to play from memory but don't want to have to shake off the sign (sorry,
someone mentioned the World Series in another thread :-). But then, all
the tunes I asked you to add back could be deleted again, because I
don't need the charts to play them. I think I've been sort of
conflating both of these ideas in my head, including tunes if they fit
*either* criteria (ones I might need charts for, or ones I want everyone
else to have charts for).
> > > Deluge Shorter, Wayne
> >
> > Good tune, good chart.
>
> Just for reference, if people really played them, there's hardly a
tune
> I'd pull by Shorter.
FWIW, this tune was called on a gig I was on Thursday night. But I
probably don't get asked to play it more than once a year at most.
> One of the *vastly* important aspects of Sher's stamp is the degree to
> which he gives you snatchs (frequently more) of what the bass line is.
> On some of the tunes, they hardly make sense without them.
That's one of things I alluded to in saying that some of the RB charts
are next to useless if you don't already know the tune.
> These last two bring in a whole different mindset to the tune. Should
> "inability to play without rehearsal" qualify as a deal-breaker?
Seems like it if we are trying to create the one generic fakebook worth
carrying around to gigs.
> If so
> there are noteworthy swaths of material, full scores in some cases,
> that would exit the New Real Book series.
Well, that's probably one reason why these books aren't quite as popular
as they could be. Chuck may have started out with the goal of replacing
the RB, but he ended up creating something rather different. They're
fantastic books to use with a regular group where you can work up the
arrangements and get something much better sounding that typical jam
session or pickup gig fare. But those same qualities make them
correspondingly less than ideal for typical jam sessions or pickup gigs.
Which is probably the best argument one could make for the point htta
one fakebook can never be enough. At the very least, you want one to
get you through gigs where someone else is calling tunes and you want to
be prepared to handle the most likely calls, and another to give you
stuff to work on that goes beyond the least common denominator.
> > > Pensativa Fischer, Clare
> >
> > Beautiful tune.
>
> Not unlike a lot of tunes in the same groove. A reason to jettison it
> is that too many years reading flats make most reader's incapable of
> navigating the thing. It always seems to go to hell.
I guess I haven't heard it called enough to have heard these kinds of
problems - and when it is called, it isn't by beginners who are likely
to screw it up. Again, though, by some odd coincidence, this was called
on a gig I was on Friday night.
> > > Pent-Up House Rollins, Sonny
> >
> > Gets called; not one of my personal favorites, though.
>
> Though Rollins was an early and steadfast favorite of mine, I
> personally loath Oleo, Airegin and St. Thomas, while we're at it. But
> you gotta be a communitarian in some matters.
Good point. I'd keep Airegin as the token Rollins tune, then, as the
one I most enjoy playing. But if we're trying to make a book useful to
others as well, I suppose St. Thomas would be the pick.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Marc Sabatella
> > My point is, you'd be surprised how many people know the same tunes.
>
> I most certainly would not. And I know where they learned them; the
> Real Book.
True enough, but what I find interesting to consider is which tunes
*not* in the RB seem as ubiquitous, and how they got that way. I don't
have a cop of the RB handy, but if I recall, Caravan and St. Thomas are
two of the most often-played tunes at sessions that aren't there.
> That said, I sense it's time to begin pointing out that this is not
> about me. Everybody is free to do or not do anything they like with
> these or any other tunes, on paper or by ear. Consider any unnamed
> option viable.
What I generally do is bring no fakebooks to gigs any more, because I
know most the tunes likely to be called. Not just the RB stuff, but
tons of standards. If something gets called on a gig that I don't know,
and it isn't something I can easily learn right there on the bandstand,
then I make it a point to learn the tune when I get home. My motto:
never have to say "sorry, I don't know that one" more than once for any
given tune. What I am most lacking in right now are the hard bop tunes
*not* the RB, and this burns me when occasionally - I play in the house
band at one of the major clubs in Denver and we periodically back guest
players. Last weekend was Wessell Anderson and Marcus Printup, and for
whatever reason, I didn't have any problems with the tunes they wanted
to play, but when Javon Jackson is in town, he generally manages to
stump me at leats once a night on tunes I *should* know ("Along Came
Betty" comes to mind as one I had better learn soon).
Marc Sabatella
I have seen this happen a couple of times, but more often, it's a
combination of other factors. A lot of folks find the 24 bar blues
awkward and get a little lost. Horn players struggle to find the right
notes to hit if they are playing the background parts during the head or
solos. The break at the end of the tune gets butchered. I'm not saying
it's actually difficult, especially with a good chart in front of you,
but too often, things go wrong.
Gerry
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
> BTW, although we're talking about customizing a book for our own
> purposes, there are two different ways of looking at this that would
> affect choices. Namely, is this a book I bring so I can give to someone
> *else* on the bandstand when I call a tune they don't know, or a book I
> bring for my own benefit so I can handle it when they call a tune *I*
> don't know?
The former. As my thoughts evolve I think about adding a new mini-RB
with my own preferred tunes, and would thus need charts for others.
While we're at it, here's the tunes that I want to play from the RB as
it stands, which I would bringing for them as well. Though I certainly
know many of these tunes, the reality is that since I no longer work as
a professional very often I barely remember some old chestnuts until
the middle the the third chorus.
> > If so
> > there are noteworthy swaths of material, full scores in some cases,
> > that would exit the New Real Book series.
>
> Well, that's probably one reason why these books aren't quite as popular
> as they could be. Chuck may have started out with the goal of replacing
> the RB, but he ended up creating something rather different.
He did indeed. It also functions as something of a learning tool in
this newly added respect.
> They're
> fantastic books to use with a regular group where you can work up the
> arrangements and get something much better sounding that typical jam
> session or pickup gig fare. But those same qualities make them
> correspondingly less than ideal for typical jam sessions or pickup gigs.
Best to say "some" of the tunes aren't really multi-purpose. Likewise,
some are.
> Which is probably the best argument one could make for the point htta
> one fakebook can never be enough. At the very least, you want one to
> get you through gigs where someone else is calling tunes and you want to
> be prepared to handle the most likely calls, and another to give you
> stuff to work on that goes beyond the least common denominator.
Well that's the two books really: one is a "slam-book" of sorts with
tunes coming and going that mostly gets used as the Real Book generally
is, but has more (and less) in it.
Then there is the real "my book" item. This you use to rehearse players
to play your gig.
I'm nowhere near that second one and would like to be. This is all
probably part of that process: devise the first; the second is a subset
of it.
Gerry
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
> ...what I find interesting to consider is which tunes
> *not* in the RB seem as ubiquitous, and how they got that way. I don't
> have a cop of the RB handy, but if I recall, Caravan and St. Thomas are
> two of the most often-played tunes at sessions that aren't there.
I'm surprised St. Thomas isn't there. I guess I visualize it in the
preceeding Spaces volumes...
I think "Summertime" has to be number one. The Leon Russell tune
"Masquerade", has to be up there.
> > Everybody is free to do or not do anything they like with
> > these or any other tunes, on paper or by ear. Consider any unnamed
> > option viable.
>
> What I generally do is bring no fakebooks to gigs any more, because I
> know most the tunes likely to be called. Not just the RB stuff, but
> tons of standards. If something gets called on a gig that I don't know,
> and it isn't something I can easily learn right there on the bandstand,
> then I make it a point to learn the tune when I get home. My motto:
> never have to say "sorry, I don't know that one" more than once for any
> given tune.
Great philosophy, and while I feel like I no damn near all of them, the
reality is that I certainly don't *really* know them, to be able to
cover changes and melody on my own.
> What I am most lacking in right now are the hard bop tunes
> *not* the RB, and this burns me when occasionally - I play in the house
> band at one of the major clubs in Denver and we periodically back guest
> players. Last weekend was Wessell Anderson and Marcus Printup, and for
> whatever reason, I didn't have any problems with the tunes they wanted
> to play, but when Javon Jackson is in town, he generally manages to
> stump me at leats once a night on tunes I *should* know ("Along Came
> Betty" comes to mind as one I had better learn soon).
--
Alan Young
I'm now looking at at least *three* different books that would ideally
replace the old RB:
(1) A collection of easy jam tunes for students, amateurs and fun
sessions, like St. Thomas, Song For My Father, and Stolen Moments.
(2) A book of "standards", meaning what recording artists are still
producing and what people expect to hear when they are a paying
audience. It would be worthwhile to do a survey to see what tunes have
been most often covered by jazz artists in the last 10-15 years. This
would be the book that would be most valuable for most gigs. Then we
can argue over what the correct changes are for 'Round Midnight (Monk
played several versions), and what key to play Autumn Leaves in, before
it becomes a proper "standard."
Of course, there are some easy jam tunes that are also standards,
but if they are that easy, pros will already know them and won't have
to carry that book to the gig.
(3) A book of "advanced studies" for people who want to go deeper into
the music, for rehearsal bands. Here's where you'd put stuff like
E.S.P., UMMG, and the Wayne Shorter and Chick Corea tunes that are too
technical or just too obscure to call with a pickup group, not "in
demand" by audiences, but still great classics worth learning.
Bob Agnew
block chords, but then the guy who showed me how to play it did it that way
too ;-))
"MBR" <jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b04a13f9.03102...@posting.google.com...
SomeGuyOnTheInternet
>> Kevin Van Sant <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> I made my own book a few years ago which is the only book I carry
>> around. It's got about 500 tunes compiled from about 8 different
>> sources, plus a few charts I transcribed myself. I also went through
>> and edited the changes to a bunch that I considered off. All of
>> these tunes above from your discard list are still in my book. One
>> thing about making your own book, you don't only want to include songs
>> you know you'll want to play, but also include songs that you think
>> you *might* want to play later, and just as importantly, songs you
>> think someone else might call on a gig sometime. Otherwise you'll be
>> back to lugging around six books in no time.
>> _________________________________________
>> Kevin Van Sant
>> jazz guitar
I also have my own book, which is a work in progress.
What format is your book? Right now, mine's in a three-ring binder,
because that's the only way I can think of where I can easily add or remove
pages. The problem with the three-ring binder approach is that it's not
space-efficient the way a fake book is. For one thing, in fakebooks,
they're usually printed double-sided. I suppose I could that too, but it's
not easily done. So far, everything in my book is printed single-sided.
Another thing is, the fakebooks usually have that binding, I don't know
what it's called, that plastic thing with about 50 'teeth', or sometimes
it's a wire coil.
*******************************************************************
** The only good velocity-switch is an inaudible velocity-switch **
*******************************************************************
Kevin Van Sant
(SomeGuyOnTheInternet) wrote in message
<PKaob.4352$G1.2...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> :
I decided I wanted to have a half size book for portability. I
actually scanned in about 500 tunes from various sources into
photoshop, edited any changes or what not where necessary, cropped
them and cleaned them up. (like discarding any page space beyond the
actual chart) Then I created a macro which resized each page/file to
the new dimensions. Then I ran a file renaming macro to put page #'s
in front of the file name. Then I ran one macro for all the odd #
pages, and one for all the even # pages which set up the margins for a
spiral bound printing. Whew... then I imported all the tiff (image)
files into a single PDF file which I took down to kinkos to have
printed and bound. It really was a huge pain in the ass but it was
worth it. It's the only book I ever need to carry around. The
book's not even really for me...It's not often someone calls a tune I
don't know, but it's great to have it to give to the bass player or
pianist when they say they don't know a tune that I call. That's the
main reason I made it.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
Alan Young
<kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
> I decided I wanted to have a half size book for portability. I
> actually scanned in about 500 tunes from various sources into
> photoshop, edited any changes or what not where necessary, cropped
> them and cleaned them up. (like discarding any page space beyond the
> actual chart) Then I created a macro which resized each page/file to
> the new dimensions. Then I ran a file renaming macro to put page #'s
> in front of the file name. Then I ran one macro for all the odd #
> pages, and one for all the even # pages which set up the margins for a
> spiral bound printing. Whew... then I imported all the tiff (image)
> files into a single PDF file which I took down to kinkos to have
> printed and bound.
"Whew!" is right. Maybe in a few more years, when I'm sure my choice of
500 most-preferred songs is not going to evolve much further, I may do
something like that.... but does anyone have a shorter way to
accomplish it?
> It really was a huge pain in the ass but it was
> worth it. It's the only book I ever need to carry around. The
> book's not even really for me...It's not often someone calls a tune I
> don't know, but it's great to have it to give to the bass player or
> pianist when they say they don't know a tune that I call. That's the
> main reason I made it.
--
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <301020030958147656%aay...@sonic.net> :
>"Whew!" is right. Maybe in a few more years, when I'm sure my choice of
>500 most-preferred songs is not going to evolve much further, I may do
>something like that.... but does anyone have a shorter way to
>accomplish it?
well, before that I just maintained a three ring binder full of tunes.
That works fine too, but it's bulkier and pages get torn out kind of
easily. ..unless you use plastic sleeves but then it becomes even
more bulky.
Myth
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:psk2qv8i7tvgahajr...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:58:20 GMT, Alan Young <aay...@sonic.net>
> wrote in message <301020030958147656%aay...@sonic.net> :
>
> >"Whew!" is right. Maybe in a few more years, when I'm sure my choice of
> >500 most-preferred songs is not going to evolve much further, I may do
> >something like that.... but does anyone have a shorter way to
> >accomplish it?
>
>
> well, before that I just maintained a three ring binder full of tunes.
> That works fine too, but it's bulkier and pages get torn out kind of
> easily. ..unless you use plastic sleeves but then it becomes even
> more bulky.
I use three ring binders as well, with plastic sleeves. Bulky yes, but then
you can have two sheets in one which reduces the volume, and you have full
interchangeability.
Take care,
Tom