Rap vs. Industrial vs. Entropy in the music industry
Mark Pippins
I'm trying to get some sort of consensus on the likely convergence
of 'dance-industrial' and Hip-Hop. I'm own a Sony 100 Disc Changer,
and I keep it stocked with almost all industrial (Puppy and spinoffs,
Leatherstrip, XMarks, ClockDVA, Muslimgauze, FLA, Cabaret Voltaire,
Borghesia, Foetus, etc) and a bit of rap (Dre, Snoop, Mobb Deep, Nas,
Wu-Tang, BIG, etc.).
I must know about a ten people (some for almost a decade now) who
consider themselves or who I would consider as pretty hardcore
industrial enthusiasts, or who I know have a great deal of insight
into the so-called industrial scene. Not neccesarily industrial
purists, per se, just the type people who picked me up and dusted me
off at the last Ministry show I made it to - the one where Ogre took
the mike and dumped a bucket of blood on me and a tripping dozen;), or
what-his-name a couple of posts back giving dude what for behind lack
of knowledge - You know the type.
In any case, most of these guys (and gals) dislike rap a lot, and my
friends who listen to rap can't listen to any industrial music for
lack of exposure to anything else.
It seems though, that the remix of Snoop Doggy Dogg's (Skinny Black
Puppy?) 'Murder was the Case' is practically a cookie cut from Klaus
Larsen's (LeatherStrip) sequence/sound book. There are tons of
Hip-Hop references in SP's music (not just the stinking badges remix,
but the 'scratching' in Riverz End and some of the Hilt cuts). Also,
ahh, it seems that recently, rap artists have been applying some of
the techniques that we've been hearing from factory, wax trax, play it
again sam, et al. from way back. Most rap guys don't need vocal
processors to distort their vocals (see Busta Rhymes). You know where
I'm going with this.
Yeah I know. Consolidated, Disposable Heroes, etc. - but who's
really doing it right? I think there's something to this.
The reason this drives me up the wall is like I say, I listen to a
pretty staightforward mix of EBM and Hip-Hop, but no matter who stops
by, they gotta open their mouth at some point about what's playing -
the rap guys all think that Skinny Puppy opened for Led Zeppelin or
somebody, and the people in black cringe every time the word "nigger"
comes out of the mix (which is a lot, like 25 NPM on a Dre track) or
when a big fat (phat) funk riff winds its way through the mix.
What is the deal? Industrial is dead because it got absorbed into
everthing else as far as production values are concerned - I hear
people playing dice and arguing deep in the mix on Prince tracks these
days. I like triphop, but it's like candy, no message (you know, like
grunge is punk-politics) between the beats.
I'm wondering if there is some Rap/Industrial hybrid that I've missed.
And what do you think? Like Industrial and hate rap? Why? What
differences do you perceive? Be specific. Wait. Listen to Wu-Tang,
Mobb Deep and Biggy and then be specific.
Christopher M Moore
In <54ksuf$2...@park.interport.net> st...@interport.net (Mark Pippins)
writes:
>And what do you think? Like Industrial and hate rap? Why? What
>differences do you perceive?
the very first electronic music i listened to was rap. this was back in
the very early 80's, i was into all sorts of breakdance music and early
rap, like newkleus and the fat boys...i think herbie hancock's "rockit"
was my best musical memory of the time (anyone know what album that was
on?). er anyway i got sick of it at some point, got into contemporary
pop for a bit, then "goth" stuff like the cure, etc, then "industrial"
type stuff. for a long time i hated anything remotely rap-oriented. rap
these days seems so dull to me, a lot of it is just people rapping over
a beat or a dj, there's nothing there for me to listen to...i pretty
much dislike vocals in music anyway, and if there's nothing going on
behind the vocals then from my perspectve there's nothing to listen to.
but i do listen to some trip-hop/drum and bass/dub/etc. and some
hip-hop influenced stuff like scorn, these people i feel are taking the
cool elements of hip hop and making it interesting.
however, occasionally when i'm visiting someone who has mtv or someone
who listens to rap and i'll hear some newer rap that sounds pretty
decent, like there was a dr.dre track or something that had synths and
melodies and shit, and vocoded backing vox...and there was this song i
heard on the radio with a distorted 808 beat and some psycho hispanic
rapper girl that seemed pretty fucked up. some public enemy stuff i can
also listen to without cringing...
and the other person i know who listens to industrial is also into
cypress hill and dreck like that...
so there you go.
--
(6 7 5 3 2/
Here lies a youth who died of consumption:
you know why
Do not pray for him
(the secret fibres of consciousness/
Shaemus
I think the only industrial band (Well catagorized as industrial)
that mixed rap and industrial together the best:
CONSOLIDATED, although a few of their songs get annoying quick.
("White American Male" for instance)
khdr
st...@interport.net (Mark Pippins) wrote:
>I'm wondering if there is some Rap/Industrial hybrid that I've missed.
>And what do you think? Like Industrial and hate rap? Why? What
>differences do you perceive? Be specific. Wait. Listen to Wu-Tang,
>Mobb Deep and Biggy and then be specific.
try Anal Solvents "Wild 'n' Free"
also Vampire Rodents "Clockseed"
not really a rap/industrial hybrid, but sometimes close
--------------------------------
cut with the kitchen knife
http://www.rajha.com/dtm/dtm.htm
d...@minerva.net
Serendib
>I'm wondering if there is some Rap/Industrial hybrid that I've missed.
Didn't you know? All industrial has ever been is "white rap."
--Serendib
</sarcasm>
The sloth
m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) writes:
>> What is the deal? Industrial is dead
>You are a goofball. Or high at least. You obviously don't live in
>the right city.
He's absolutely right. Hell, most people will tolerate most
types of music, even country. You wanna clear a room, drop in a F242
disk... Unless it's a special kind of crowd. I actually got chewed out
by an audio instructor for commenting on the sonic qualities of a Front
Line Assembly CD (TNI) for a class... He didn't consider it music, he
called it "ear candy." The only thing I can think of that's deader is
death metal.
>>because it got absorbed into
>>everthing else as far as production values are concerned
>Turn off the radio. What bands are your refering to?
Cheap shot. Try harder.
>IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
>angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
>of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
Seconded.
<(*)>sloth<(*)>
E Loch
> What is the deal? Industrial is dead
You are a goofball. Or high at least. You obviously don't live in
the right city.
>because it got absorbed into
>everthing else as far as production values are concerned
Turn off the radio. What bands are your refering to?
>I'm wondering if there is some Rap/Industrial hybrid that I've missed.
Check out Operation Beatbox on Re-Constriction.
>And what do you think? Like Industrial and hate rap? Why? What
>differences do you perceive? Be specific.
IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>Wait. Listen to Wu-Tang,
>Mobb Deep and Biggy and then be specific.
I'll stick with Ice Cube and Senser (and don't say they aren't rap
because they're white and British).
Out,
E Loch
m...@chalkhead.com
Luxt 0+*
downfall
On 26 Oct 1996, The sloth wrote:
> He's absolutely right. Hell, most people will tolerate most
> types of music, even country. You wanna clear a room, drop in a F242
> disk... Unless it's a special kind of crowd.
nah. . .not scary enough. . .try coil. . .he he he. . .or puppy. . .
> I actually got chewed out by an audio instructor for commenting on the
> sonic qualities of a Front Line Assembly CD (TNI) for a class... He
> didn't consider it music, he called it "ear candy." The only thing I
> can think of that's deader is death metal.
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . .an audio instructor. . .he didn't see
the value in tni?. . .bwahahahahahahahahahaha (wiping tears from eyes)
you're kidding, right? at any rate, industrial isn't about music. .
.imho. . .it should be about sound, and the fascination with sound. . .and
using any means (be it technology, or the ole' banging pipes and sheet
metal) to obtain sound. . . it's not about notes, scales or traditions. .
to bad you didn't explain this to the moron. play him some puppy. . .ask
if it's ear candy. :-)
> >IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
> >angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
> >of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>
> Seconded.
geesh. . you guys must have the worst comparing skills on the face
of the earth. . ..that's like saying country music is basically a hilljack
version of black metal. . .both use guitars. . .both are played by humans.
. .you get the point. . .as for rap being "underground".. .bwahahahahahaha. . .
wiping tears from eyes.
-downfall
"the man has no sense of reality at all" - george dracoulias
VSVN ARAB
m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
>IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
maybe if you have a very narrow definition of industrial music. i
rarely think of white rap when i put in a Download, Main, or CLOCKDVA
cd. ;]
>angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
>of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
hrm, maybe in a lot of cases the process isn't that different, but the
end result certainly is.
VSVN ARAB
VSVN ARAB
tha...@ix.netcom.com(Christopher M Moore) wrote:
>In <54ksuf$2...@park.interport.net> st...@interport.net (Mark Pippins)
>writes:
>the very first electronic music i listened to was rap. this was back in
same here.
>the very early 80's, i was into all sorts of breakdance music and early
>rap, like newkleus and the fat boys...i think herbie hancock's "rockit"
don't forget M A N T R O N I X! 8]
isn't the guy from Mantronix the same guy who remixed Puppy's Stairs
and Flowers? Def Wish mix i believe. i don't know where i got that
info, but i remember seeing some kind of connection there somewhere.
anyway, i still think Mantronix was pretty far ahead of his time as
far as modern electronic music goes. he had some great effects and
techniques for manipulating his music. he would do "Megamixes" at the
end of the album where he would cut-up and splice material from all of
the songs at rearrange them again in some really interesting ways.
oh yeah, don't forget Whodini! "The Freaks Come out at Night!" heheh
one of my first times hearing a vocoder.
>was my best musical memory of the time (anyone know what album that was
>on?). er anyway i got sick of it at some point, got into contemporary
it's on Future Shock i believe.
>pop for a bit, then "goth" stuff like the cure, etc, then "industrial"
>type stuff. for a long time i hated anything remotely rap-oriented. rap
yep yep, same here...
>these days seems so dull to me, a lot of it is just people rapping over
>a beat or a dj, there's nothing there for me to listen to...i pretty
>much dislike vocals in music anyway, and if there's nothing going on
>behind the vocals then from my perspectve there's nothing to listen to.
>but i do listen to some trip-hop/drum and bass/dub/etc. and some
>hip-hop influenced stuff like scorn, these people i feel are taking the
>cool elements of hip hop and making it interesting.
a cousin of mine sampled some of my Scorn cd's for his hip hop group.
i thought that was pretty cool. it would be funny to turn on the radio
one day and hear some Scorn loops with some "Gangsta" type rapping
over it.
>however, occasionally when i'm visiting someone who has mtv or someone
>who listens to rap and i'll hear some newer rap that sounds pretty
>decent, like there was a dr.dre track or something that had synths and
>melodies and shit, and vocoded backing vox...and there was this song i
yeah, i think i know that one. it was pretty cool for your typical rap
song.
>heard on the radio with a distorted 808 beat and some psycho hispanic
>rapper girl that seemed pretty fucked up. some public enemy stuff i can
>also listen to without cringing...
yeah, i still like a lot of PE stuff. i'd really rather listen to PE
than a lot of so-called industrial actually.
>and the other person i know who listens to industrial is also into
>cypress hill and dreck like that...
>so there you go.
*sniff* thanks for the memories... *sniff*
VSVN ARAB
The sloth
downfall <ew20...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> writes, in entirely too much of an
amused fashion:
>> He's absolutely right. Hell, most people will tolerate most
>> types of music, even country. You wanna clear a room, drop in a F242
>> disk... Unless it's a special kind of crowd.
>nah. . .not scary enough. . .try coil. . .he he he. . .or puppy. . .
Well downfall, sometimes you don't _want_ to scare them off, but
you're sick TO DEATH of bloaty and the whofish... Ever noticed how
sorority fluff is cuter than chicks who actually _dig_ Skinny puppy?
Sometimes you don't wanna spook the herd...
>bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . .an audio instructor. . .he didn't see
>the value in tni?. . .
Not "value," "sonic qualities." TNI happens to be a pretty well
mastered CD, whatever you may think of FLA. I have
an engineer buddy who uses it to get himself a
baseline whenever he's in a new studio- it's a
reasonably demanding disk of audio systems (got all
sorts of stuff from 20-20K at all sorts of levels)
and he thinks it sounds cool. From an engineering
standpoint only, TNI is pretty good.
>you're kidding, right? at any rate, industrial isn't about music. .
>.imho. . .it should be about sound, and the fascination with sound. . .and
>using any means (be it technology, or the ole' banging pipes and sheet
>metal) to obtain sound. . . it's not about notes, scales or traditions. .
>to bad you didn't explain this to the moron.
...and that above is pretty much a textbook definition of "ear
candy." I don't necessarily disagree, either, just giving a viewpoint.
play him some puppy. . .ask
>if it's ear candy. :-)
erm... thing is, from a whitebread standpoint, most puppy albums
are _not_ mastered very well, especially when everybody else was bringing
in "yes" albums and such... They didn't spend enough cash, and SP has a
tendency (cool or annoying, depending on your tastes; I'm a diehard SP
fan) to leave aliasing and artifacts in for the effect. Bottom line: If
I turned in Mind: TPI for a final project, I wouldn't pass the class
("there's too much reverb on the chainsaw back there, and the vocals are
unclear. you've also got too much feedback on the drum delay. Try again
with less effects, and see if you can get the band in to do some
overdubs- most of this material is shit!" ;-) )
>IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
>> >angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
>> >of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>> Seconded.
>geesh. . you guys must have the worst comparing skills on the face
>of the earth. . ..that's like saying country music is basically a hilljack
>version of black metal. . .both use guitars. . .both are played by humans.
Now, now. Rap started out underground and has since caught on.
Industrial has been underground forever (MM and GK fans can just go away
right now, we don't wanna hear it) and seems to be perpetually on the
brink of breaking, but never quite does. The instruments used in both
genres are very similar- Drums are usually sampled, vocal processing
isn't uncommon, both genres (over)use samplers. Neither rap artists nor
industrial vocalists are known for their melodic crooning, more generally
for angry utterances. I think there's a few more similarities than you
have found.
Feeling civil today-
<(*)>sloth<(*)>
Matt
The sloth wrote:
>
> Ever noticed how
> sorority fluff is cuter than chicks who actually _dig_ Skinny puppy?
er...no....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mcar...@wam.umd.edu
http://www.geckoworld.com/pluto
http://www.geckoworld.com/fractals
disembodied gutteral noise
need not make sense
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Pippins
>m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
>>You are a goofball. Or high at least. You obviously don't live in
>>the right city.
High in NYC. Don't tell me you know of an industrial 'scene'.
>vsvn...@3-cities.com (VSVN ARAB) wrote:
>>maybe if you have a very narrow definition of industrial music. i
>>rarely think of white rap when i put in a Download, Main, or CLOCKDVA
Point taken-the metaphor only extends so far sonically. On the third
hand, though, I have always sort of considered 'industrial' in
ecxtremely large part to be a belated reporting on the ethics and
techniques employed by anglos as reported by anglos - This is why we
hate new bands, they've wasted the forum, pissing on our intellectual
round table without even mentioning Hitler or polyester. If I can get
the black guy to quit ClockDVA, this argument will grow some legs.
Now, take a breath - rap has always considered itself to be the 'Black
CNN'. Ever see a PE video? I left rap for industrial back in the wee
eighties, 'cause' people were talking about their shoes instead of
some "real black shit". The guilty views that industrial takes of
genocide and oppression is almost exactly the flip of the Hiphop take
on homicide and being oppressed - I know that a lot of rap seems to
glorify the 'gangsta' lifestyle, but some of the brothers are trying
to figure out what to make of LeatherStrip and assume that I also like
'Satanic Nazi' music.
I don't expect to be able to spin X-Marks the Pedwalk for X-Clan crew
anytime soon, but I can't help being fascinated at the deep
similarities and the reaction of other people to similar stimuli.
As a final similarity, the 'underground' similarites do still apply.
Here in New York, you can buy tapes on the street of hundreds of
different rap bands, none of whom you'll hear on the radio - some
people consider this to be the 'true' underground of rap - like if
it's on a CD, it's commercial - some industrial fanatics have opinions
that are just as arbitrary..............
12GaugePanda
Druid wrote:
>
> In article <3271683e.2887517@news>, m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
>
> > IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
> > angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
> > of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>
> has ::GASP:: melody (yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
> present it in. It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm (Hold onto
> the seat kiddies). Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
> involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
> entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed by the
> producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
> on. Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
> Druid
> "Same information, better through duplication" -Lassigue Bendthaus from _Cloned_
It was almost a decent reposte, until you used LB's "Cloned" as a sig. Come to think of
it, you were two samples short of a decent song during your entire rebuttal. First off, the
"melody" that appears in "industrial" music is generally delivered in the form of a
sequencer fill rather than from the mouth of an over-distorted Ogre emulator. In rap, the
same is also true...just listen to those melodic grooves in Dre's material.
Second point: while plenty of "industrial" exceeds 100 bpms, there's an equal abundance
that doesn't. I guess Morpheus is laughing now. Third point: rap musicians might rely
more on stolen grooves, but it is comparable in lack of innovation to the generic drum
machine beats pumped out by any of the Zoth Ommog clan. I think when you stated that
"people are getting stupider", it was a reference to either: (a) a guy who creates a word
like "stupider" or (b) a guy who shells out big bucks for the import version of Lassigue
Bendthaus' Cloned CD which features about nine different versions of the same song,
using most , if not all, the same sounds for each one.
Rap and "industrial" might not be twins on the surface, but intelligent deconstruction will
reveal ample similarities.
Next!
12GaugePanda
"Yo bitch, shut the fuck up" Eazy E.
Vijay Gill
In article <n9446600.846381035@statler> n944...@statler.cc.wwu.edu
(The sloth) writes:
From: n944...@statler.cc.wwu.edu (The sloth)
you're sick TO DEATH of bloaty and the whofish... Ever noticed how
sorority fluff is cuter than chicks who actually _dig_ Skinny puppy?
Sometimes you don't wanna spook the herd...
The rest of the post has been dealt with quite well by the other
people on the thread, so I'll just stick to this point.
Sorority fluff is _not_ cuter than chicks who actually dig SP. You
just can't generalize to whole groups of people like that. There are
some good looking sorority women and industrialites, it just depends
on which mindset you find yourself attracted to. There are some
amazingly good looking women at the capitol ballroom for example.
vijay "eye of the beholder" gill
--
Vijay Gill |The (paying) customer is always right.
wr...@cs.umbc.edu, vi...@umbc.edu | - Piercarlo Grandi
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~vijay | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get
These are my opinions only. | sucked into jet engines.
Druid
In article <3271683e.2887517@news>, m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
> IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
> angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
> of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial actually
has ::GASP:: melody(yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
present it in. It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm(Hold onto
the seat kiddies). Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed by the
producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
on.
Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
Druid
--
======================The Philadelphia Electro Society===============
Paul Santa Clara - Founder, President, and only member.
Submit an application today and be rudely rejected because you're not
electronically pure!
"Same information, better through duplication"
-Lassigue Bendthaus from _Cloned_
=====================================================================
The sloth
st96...@post.drexel.edu (Druid) writes:
>> IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
>> angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
>> of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial actually
>has ::GASP:: melody(yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
>present it in.
If there were no melody, En Vogue would be nowhere. I didn't say
_good_ melody, I said melody. The genres are physically the same
concerning melody, if not stylistically.
It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm(Hold onto
>the seat kiddies).
? What's your point?
Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
>involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
>entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed by the
>producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
>on.
Mix magazine did an article on Boyz II Men's (Junge Zwei
Menschen!! The new teutonic terrors!! ;-) )home studios. They pretty
much blow Bill Leeb's away. Among them, for example, are 3 K2000's and 2
ASR-10's. I think you'd be disappointed if you actually grabbed a few
Big Fish "industrial" sample CD's... You'd find many similar loops. And
Just because FLA is a soft spot: Remember "Millenium?"
>Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The official Druid Note of Authenticity...
<(*)>sloth<(*)>
UseMe01
>>Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
Druid, every time you open your mouth you make a bigger ass out of
yourself. Your critique of rap aisde from not being relevant (I believe
the poster was making the parallel between the fact that neither genre
gets much radio support - we're talking REAL rap, not MTV rap - and yet
has a strong base of support), isn't even accurate. Yes, a lot of rap
bands just loop samples, but guess what, so do a lot of electro bands.
And, a good number of rap artists intigrate live musicians into their mix
as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who is tired of your elitest
whining, so fer christ sakes, keep your shirt on...
Deftly-D
> tha...@ix.netcom.com(Christopher M Moore) wrote:
>
> >In <54ksuf$2...@park.interport.net> st...@interport.net (Mark Pippins)
> >writes:
>
> >the very first electronic music i listened to was rap. this was back in
> same here.
Well, the first music I fell in love with.
> don't forget M A N T R O N I X! 8]
Thank you.
> >was my best musical memory of the time (anyone know what album that was
> >on?). er anyway i got sick of it at some point, got into contemporary
> it's on Future Shock i believe.
Yup. It was also Bill Lazwell's start.
> >pop for a bit, then "goth" stuff like the cure, etc, then "industrial"
> >type stuff. for a long time i hated anything remotely rap-oriented. rap
> yep yep, same here...
My problem is that while before 1990, rap seemed to be diversifying (to
give an idea, PE's Nation of Millions, EpMD's Strickly Buisness, De La
Soul's 3 Ft High, Erick B + Rakim's Follow The Leader, BDP's Necessary and
Ice T's Power all came out in a little over a one year span and were all
increadibly unique. But by 1991 it seemed like everyone first became a
clone of EpMD, then of NWA, etc. etc. The Individuality seemed sucked
from the scene, and knowledge rap seems to this day nearly impossible to
find. Industrial appeals to me for similar reasons to why I loved rap,
but that trend of homoginization has slowly been appearing here too. How
many morons post shit about wanting to get the right keyboard to sound
like FLA. FLA (as well as the other ten or so projects everyone seems to
try to imitate) already exists, and imitators will only become trivial.
Why try to "fit" a catagory. The best industrial artists strive not to
fit.
OK (as I realize I'm on a big tangent that almost makes a Genesis
P-Orridge speach seem like it will have a conclusion (no insult
intended)). Before Front 242 or Skinny Puppy were using heavy beat driven
music, rap made the sound. The inovation of minimally using effects,
samples and performance art are as much a part of the root of rap as it is
the spirit of industrial (minimal not being constant in either). The
early Wax Trax sound early house music and old school Hip Hop were almost
without differentiation (and race had little or nothing to do with that
differentiation - even classical music has african roots, and even Bill
from interzone was scratching records decades before Bambatta so there's
little point exploring that argument right now).
Industrial has roots in every genera of music from classical to punk to
rap to new age to musique concreate. If you love the electronic dance
side, the use of sampled sound, pounding rhythms, anthems, non-melodic and
distorted vocas, rap is the root that you probably taste the most. The
root of techno, house, jungle, ebm, etc. No I'm not saying T.G. or
Kraftwerk were influenced by rap then, but now Coil vs. ElPh are using
samples of NWA Strait Outta Compton, FLA samples Eric B & Rakim to death
and Kraftwerk has remixed their matterial and are damn glad that Bambatta
shined a spotlight on them in the early days of rap music.
Now ignore everything I've said and make up your own mind. My point is to
eliminate homoginization - the killer of both generas.
pax
Deftly-D
"This is the depth of rap music from London to LA"
Jack D.
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Mark Pippins
st96...@post.drexel.edu (Druid) wrote:
>What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial actually
>has ::GASP:: melody(yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
I'm sitting here listening to one of my own mix tapes - I'll give a
sampling in a second, but lemme make my point -
Biggy Small's "One More Chance (puff-daddy remix)" just ended - you
know that track, everybody's using it these days (less a 'stolen'
melody, more of a scene in which some people simply produce backing
tracks and make them available to rappers and djs) with Mary J. Blige
singing on it. Now this track is nothing if not melodic, as evidenced
by the fact that the other artists I hear using this track are by and
large (sorry high) r&b types - that audience demands a 'melody'.
Now what's playing? I tend to go almost one industrial (or whatever)
track for every rap track, since I've been having a rap attack lately,
so I should expect to hear a really "melodic" type industrial track
next, right?
Well. It's, ah, Muslimgauze (live excerpt from Arrhythmia). Yah.
This guy shot and buried melody before he got to the studio on this
track - 'cause there ain't a bit. None. As Jesse Jackson would say:
"The point is moot!"
back to my mix tape:
Schnitt Acht - He Bought the Farm
Kali - Kill Dem All
Scraping Foetus Off The Wheel - Enter The Exterminator
Busta Rhymes - Still Shining
Coil - The Anal Staircase
Dementia Preacox - Foreign Object
Skinny Puppy - 200 Years
The Alkaholiks - No Hand Outs
DHH - Music and Politics
Mobb Deep - Just Step
Doubting Thomas - Clocks
Channel Live - Is It a Dream?
Controlled Bleeding - Words of the Dying
Prince - Annie Christian
LeatherStrip - Zyclon B
Bone Thugs -n- Harmony - Everyday Thang
CyberAktif - Discoarse Illusion
Method Man/Red Man - How High
Skinny Puppy - The Process
Tha Dogg Pound - Who's Got Some Gangsta Shit?
Mary J. Blige - Everyday It Rains
X Marks the Pedwalk - Cenotaph
Art Blakey - A Night in Tunisia
Thug Life - Running
Dolby & Sakamoto - Fieldworks
Cabaret Voltaire - Digital Rasta
Nas - Life's a Bitch
Non Aggression Pact - The Holy Babble
Wise Inteligent - Slang Spit
Revolting Cocks - In The Neck
Dead Kennedys - Government Flu
Cyrnai - The Oppresionist
Cypress Hill - Boom Biddy Bye Bye
Ministry - Always An Angel
Onyx - Evil Streets
Skinny Puppy - Brak Talk
The English Beat - I Confess 12/10
Consolidated - Friendly Fascism 70/5
Noise Unit - In Vain
BIG - One More Chance
Muslimgauze - Live Excerpt
FLA - Nine Times
Tupac - My Block
DOA - Fuck that shit.
Mandalay - This Life
Lost Boys - Legal Drug Money
Download - SideWinder
A Tribe Called Quest - Phony Rappers
Fishbone - Iration
Cibo Matto - Sugar Water
400 Blows - Fundamental Islam
Sublime - Ebin
Steel Pulse - Rollerskates
A Tribe Called Quest - Glamour & Glitz
Joy Division - Twenty Four Hours
Slick Rick - The Ruler's Back
Lost Boys - Is This the Part?
GZA - The G.O.D.
Tha Dogg Pound - Psycho Lic No
Druid? Can you imagine being pinned under your convertible for 6
hours with this mix blaring from your 800-watt but now uncontrollable
stereo? Wouldn't that suck for you, Druid? I guess it's unlikely
that you would have a hi-fi vcr deck in your ride, but more's the
pity. You've lost all critical perspective. No more boom cars. No
more idiotic comments. Turn it down my friend. Turn it down.
VSVN ARAB
def...@tiac.net (Deftly-D) wrote:
>Yup. It was also Bill Lazwell's start.
yeah, sheesh, that guys has been all over the place. people really
should take some lessons from him about composing music original
music.
>My problem is that while before 1990, rap seemed to be diversifying (to
>give an idea, PE's Nation of Millions, EpMD's Strickly Buisness, De La
>Soul's 3 Ft High, Erick B + Rakim's Follow The Leader, BDP's Necessary and
>Ice T's Power all came out in a little over a one year span and were all
>increadibly unique. But by 1991 it seemed like everyone first became a
>clone of EpMD, then of NWA, etc. etc. The Individuality seemed sucked
yes, exactly, everyone had a more unique sound.
>from the scene, and knowledge rap seems to this day nearly impossible to
just like it's happening to the industrial scene these days.
>find. Industrial appeals to me for similar reasons to why I loved rap,
>but that trend of homoginization has slowly been appearing here too. How
>many morons post shit about wanting to get the right keyboard to sound
>like FLA. FLA (as well as the other ten or so projects everyone seems to
>try to imitate) already exists, and imitators will only become trivial.
>Why try to "fit" a catagory. The best industrial artists strive not to
>fit.
exactly...
>OK (as I realize I'm on a big tangent that almost makes a Genesis
>P-Orridge speach seem like it will have a conclusion (no insult
>intended)). Before Front 242 or Skinny Puppy were using heavy beat driven
>music, rap made the sound. The inovation of minimally using effects,
>samples and performance art are as much a part of the root of rap as it is
>the spirit of industrial (minimal not being constant in either). The
>early Wax Trax sound early house music and old school Hip Hop were almost
>without differentiation (and race had little or nothing to do with that
>differentiation - even classical music has african roots, and even Bill
>from interzone was scratching records decades before Bambatta so there's
>little point exploring that argument right now).
>Industrial has roots in every genera of music from classical to punk to
>rap to new age to musique concreate. If you love the electronic dance
>side, the use of sampled sound, pounding rhythms, anthems, non-melodic and
>distorted vocas, rap is the root that you probably taste the most. The
>root of techno, house, jungle, ebm, etc. No I'm not saying T.G. or
>Kraftwerk were influenced by rap then, but now Coil vs. ElPh are using
>samples of NWA Strait Outta Compton, FLA samples Eric B & Rakim to death
yeah, i think they looped an NWA song on Protection. i almost couldn't
believe it, it's kinda funny.
Now ignore everything I've said and make up your own mind. My point
is to
>eliminate homoginization - the killer of both generas.
yes! i think some of those electro/ebm people could use some serious
schooling. i mean, how can anyone listen to a whole leatherstrip all
the way through without getting totally bored? it's like all the same
formula...
VSVN ARAB
VSVN ARAB
12GaugePanda <12gaug...@ttlnet.com> wrote:
>Druid wrote:
>>
>>
>> What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial actually
>> has ::GASP:: melody (yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
there's also more to life than a sequenced drum beat in 4/4 time.
>> present it in. It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm (Hold onto
>> the seat kiddies). Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
>> involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
>> entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed by the
>> producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
>> on. Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
>> Druid
>> "Same information, better through duplication" -Lassigue Bendthaus from _Cloned_
>It was almost a decent reposte, until you used LB's "Cloned" as a sig. Come to think of
>it, you were two samples short of a decent song during your entire rebuttal. First off, the
>"melody" that appears in "industrial" music is generally delivered in the form of a
>sequencer fill rather than from the mouth of an over-distorted Ogre emulator. In rap, the
>same is also true...just listen to those melodic grooves in Dre's material.
>Second point: while plenty of "industrial" exceeds 100 bpms, there's an equal abundance
>that doesn't. I guess Morpheus is laughing now. Third point: rap musicians might rely
as if exceeding 100 bpms makes music the music any better anyway.
that's about the most stupid thing i've seen so far.
who cares what bpm a song is if it's not got anything going for it.
yeah i can think of a lot of electro bands that exceed 100 bpm, and
most of it is the most lame and boring shit on the planet, deviod of
any originality.
>more on stolen grooves, but it is comparable in lack of innovation to the generic drum
>machine beats pumped out by any of the Zoth Ommog clan. I think when you stated that
yeah, really.
VSVN ARAB
toms...@aol.com
Well Druid, I have to agree with what most of the previous posters have
said on this matter, but I would add this.
You are critical of rap bands because they sample other bands and build
their songs on loops of other peoples work with little else. This is
ironic since you seem to idolize Bill Leeb who has done some of the most
OBVIOUS sampling of other bands (and even does the BIG no-no of sampling
bands within the same genre) I have ever heard. Aside from the pop
rappers, I sure can't identify where most of the rap stuff is sampled, and
at least most of it is from a different kind of music (jazz, old rock,
etc.)
Also, you critique rap because it 'never goes above 100 BPM'. I'm not
sure what that has to do with anything in terms of what is valid and what
isn't, but old school and Miami style rap is routinely quite fast. (Not
to mention that a lot of artists in both styles happen to love Kraftwerk
samples which gives them yet another common link to industrial...)
--Tom
Assemblage 23
-----------------------------------------------------------
See Assemblage 23 live this November at Arts Industria's Invasion Indy Fest, November 23rd at Golgotha in Indianapolis, IN. Live performances from Manhole Vortex & Black Dahlia, Signal to Noise, A23, and Sphere Lazza.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------
"You must be the pot and the kettle." - Goat Boy
===========================================================
Visit the Assemblage 23 Home Page:
http://members.aol.com/tomshear/private/tomshear1.html
Thin White Duke
In article <5566a1$o...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
tha...@ix.netcom.com(Christopher M Moore) wrote:
> around. and while i know puppy and 242 were influenced by rap, i think
NO! Say it ain't so, mommy.
> what? where? i've never heard the nwa album so i wouldn't know...
Now, I _never_ would've thought I'd see this on RMI. BTW, if NWA were an
industrial band, it would stand for Niggers With Angst.
--
"This is intended for the entertainment and instruction of broad-minded adults only and should not be played to or sold to minors under any circumstances whatsoever. Thank you."
This message has been brought to you by the number 23 and Thin White Duke.
E Loch
VSVN ARAB wrote:
>
> m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
>
> >IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
>
> rarely think of white rap when i put in a Download, Main, or CLOCKDVA
I was speaking of the structure behind it. The electronic elements are
closest to no other music besides rap. That was my point.
> >angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability. The process
> >of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>
> hrm, maybe in a lot of cases the process isn't that different, but the
> end result certainly is.
>
> VSVN ARAB
I couldn't agree more, and I'm very thankful for it. I don't listen to
much rap anymore, it's become more over run with ripoffs than industrial
ever has. Industrial is finally underground again. Ministry made sure
of that. But the fact remains that industrial definitely has it's feet
wet in rap, whether it knows it or not.
E Loch
12GaugePanda wrote:
>
> Druid wrote:
> >
> > In article <3271683e.2887517@news>, m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
> >
> > > IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
> > > of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
> >
> > has ::GASP:: melody (yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
Maybe 50% of it. I personally am trying to inject industrial with
melody through
the music I write, but give me a fucking break, most of it is just a
bunch of
musical amateurs who don't know what they're doing. That is actually
something
to be prized! When you don't know what you're doing, maybe you'll
actually come
up with something original! But the majority of industrial music is
based on
imitation and repitition. Such is life.
> > It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm (Hold onto
> > the seat kiddies).
So by your definition, if we sped rap up and hummed a tune to it, it
would
be industrial? Think about the structure behind it. Or maybe you've
never
programmed a song before? Or maybe you haven't been programming long
enough?
> > Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
(assumption)
> > involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
> > entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc
(assumption)
> > and is constructed by the
> > producer not the rapper,
(assumption)
> > as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
> > on.
(BIG assumption)
Well, that was a nice voice of your own opinion, but you're making a lot
of
assumptions, and in my original post, I was talking about how a certain
producer
did industrial and rap and comparing it to the structures of both, so
get it
right next time.
> > Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
Only in comparison to your ever strengthening brightness.
> > Druid
> > "Same information, better through duplication" -Lassigue Bendthaus from _Cloned_
"If you aren't now, you never were." - Me
E Loch
m...@chalkhead.com
Luxt 0+*
"Amplify the Cliche'"
Raistlin Majere
On 23 Oct 1996 22:51:42 GMT, tha...@ix.netcom.com(Christopher M Moore) hath
spoken thus:
>i think herbie hancock's "rockit"
>was my best musical memory of the time (anyone know what album that was
>on?).
"Rockit" was on the Herbie Hancock album "Future Shock".
HTH.
Raist
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/The_Tower|
|Industrial Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/7878|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Randomly selected Quote of the day: |
| |
|"I'm not afraid." |
| "You will be. You will be." |
| -- Luke Skywalker & Yoda|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
downfall
On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Hex wrote:
> Well, it's evident. I mean, hell, you only have to look at most bands in
> this genre to see 'it's not about notes, scales, or traditions'. It's about
> 4-on-the-floor and the one keyboard the band has, the k2000/2500.
hm. . .it's still about sound. . .though the approach has certainly
changed and is knowhere near as abrasive as it used to be. . .but still
it's about layers of sound. . .making sound. . .fascination with sound. .
.etc. . .don't confuse what a genre is about, with what they use to make
it.
> Get real, industrial music (as defined today) has become just as for-
> mulaic as anything else (with the exception of experimental). 16th
> notes, beeps/boops, samples, usually a white male who's pissed at
> the world (awww), distorted vox (something new), and guitars (well,
> not in all cases..).
there are some using a formula (as any genre) however there is still a lot
of really creative and non formula bands going (ie. download, foetus,
haujobb. . .)
> I echo your idealism, but unfortunately, 'it just ain't like that'.
it's like that. . .well. . .not in all cases. . .but what do you expect?
a world full of "unique" bands. . .
> >to bad you didn't explain this to the moron. play him some puppy. . .ask
> >if it's ear candy. :-)
>
> Compared to a Mozart, Stravinsky, Haydn, Beethoven, or basically any-
> thing classical, most music would sound like 'ear-candy' to me. (IMHO)..
> Depends on what you're looking for in the music, I guess.
erm. . .aparantly you didn't get the puppy point. . .ear candy is
something sweet. . .enjoyable. . .candy. . .puppy is harsh, although
beautiful at times. . .if you played it for most people, they would run in
terror, screaming, kicking, clawing. . .at any rate, this fellow was
talking about an *audio* class. . .which, to me, would seem to suggest
production, and the principles of sound. . .and, imho, tni definately
belongs in such a class.
> I too, agree, but would also note that I've always thought that the angst
> expressed in rap seemed to be more justified/real than the posing I see
> on the industrial side. Again, this isn't every band.
hm. . .again, perhaps i'm just ape, but what's the connection between,
say, grand master flash? and the throbbing gristles. . .or n.w.a and, say,
skinny puppy. . .or maybe haujobb and the fugees. . .how about snoop dog
and kmfdm. . .or coolio and nin? rap is a very thin, and non textured
form of music, wheras industrial is a very textured and thick type of
music. . .diametrically oposed. . .rap has been incorporated into the
industrial scene (this has been argued elsewhere on this thread) but, by
default, industrial and rap are breeds apart.
> >.. .you get the point. . .as for rap being "underground".. .bwahahahahahaha. .
>
> There is underground rap, popular rap. There is underground electronic,
> popular electronic. Etc. It's really not that difficult a concept to grasp.
rap is not an underground form of music. . .it's readily available. .
.mtved and zapped into the inner city home, with the superstars to boot. .
.it's easy to find (local malls, chain stores etc.) whereas industrial is
very hard to come by. . .no sections in major stores. . .malls. . .the
only thing industrial you can readily find only relates to columbia,
nothing. . .and, erm. . .american. . .capitol. . .after that. . .s.o.t,
baby.
Christopher M Moore
In <deftlyd-2910...@p2.ts1.lowel.ma.tiac.com> def...@tiac.net
(Deftly-D) writes:
Before Front 242 or Skinny Puppy were using heavy beat driven
>music, rap made the sound.
while mostly i agree with you, i'd like to point out that bands like
t.g. predated and probably influenced rap, as opposed to the other way
around. and while i know puppy and 242 were influenced by rap, i think
they were more interested in that cab voltaire/tg sort of sound.
but now Coil vs. ElPh are using
>samples of NWA Strait Outta Compton
what? where? i've never heard the nwa album so i wouldn't know...
BILLY HARRIGAN
In <st96e2wc-281...@kelly1-514.resnet.drexel.edu>
st96...@post.drexel.edu (Druid) writes:
>
>In article <3271683e.2887517@news>, m...@chalkhead.com (E Loch) wrote:
>
>> IMHO, industrial is white people's rap. It's underground, sampled,
>> angsty, and usually doesn't require much vocal ability.
HAHA HAH AH AH AH HA HA HA HA HAH H A HAH AH HAH AH AH
YAH THATS IT......
ппппп ппппп пп пп ппп ппп пппппп ппппп ппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пппп пппп пп пп пп пп пп
ппппп ппп пп пп пп ппп пп пппппп ппппппп ппп пппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп п пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
пппппп ппппп ппппп пп пп пппппп пп пп ппппп
OBVIOUSLY VOYER
NON PARTICIPANT
The process
>> of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
THIS IS TRUE
HOW DID YOU MANAGE IT
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL?
>
>What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial actually
>has ::GASP:: melody
SO IF MY INDUSTRIAL DOES NOT CONTAIN MELODY I AM EXCLUDED?
(yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
THERE IS?
>present it in. It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm(Hold onto
>the seat kiddies).
INDUSTRIAL THRASH
VERY INTO IT
I HAD A BAND "DESTROY ALL MONSTERS"
WE DID A LOT OF SPEED STUFF
Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
>involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
>entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed by the
>producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
>on.
YOU SOUND LIKE A BIGOT
DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BLACK MUSICIANS
YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS FUTILE
ALL MEN ARE BROTHERS
TAKE RESPONSIBILTY
BILLY
АБА АБВА
АБВБА АБллВБА
АБВлВБА АБВВБА
АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
АББл лллл лБА
лллл . лВВл . лллл
лАБл лВВл лБАл
АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
АБА АВА
nerv...@geocities.com
may...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/alley/5028
http://home.earthlink.net/~mazzystar
>
>Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
>
>Druid
>
Druid
> Compared to a Mozart, Stravinsky, Haydn, Beethoven, or basically any-
> thing classical, most music would sound like 'ear-candy' to me. (IMHO)..
Not if you are looking at it from an "Industrial" perspective. Classical
music although possessing incredibly complicated high ends suffers from
several weakness in my opinion(an opinion that is definitely from the
"Industrial" side of things i.e. my ideal music tends toward that which is
consistent with the principles found in Industry). For one thing, Baroque
Classical has a very weak low end: almost no percussion or bass lines.
As I am interested in dance music to some degree, I consider this a
"failing" of Classical. Additionally, it was common place in Classical to
substitute games in musical theory for actual innovation. That is, it was
not uncommon for composer xxxx to "do something different" simply by
composing in a whacked meter or scale. Perhaps there is something to
statement that too many piano lesson inhibits your creativity...
Druid
--
======================The Philadelphia Electro Society===============
Paul Santa Clara - Founder, President, and only member.
Submit an application today and be rudely rejected because you're not
electronically pure!
"Same information, better through duplication"
-Lassigue Bendthaus from _Cloned_
=====================================================================
[justin maxwell]
may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY HARRIGAN) wrote:
>OBVIOUSLY VOYER
>NON PARTICIPANT
hey you, yeah, the Caps Lock Kid, the word is "voyeur."
> The process
>>> of making both types of music aren't that far off from each other.
>THIS IS TRUE
>HOW DID YOU MANAGE IT
>ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL?
I AM SURE
THAT DRUID IS FAMILIAR
WITH THE TERM TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL.
>>What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial actually
>>has ::GASP:: melody
>SO IF MY INDUSTRIAL DOES NOT CONTAIN MELODY I AM EXCLUDED?
YES. YOU MUST LEAVE NOW.
>(yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
>THERE IS?
YES. PLEASE SEE ABOVE.
>>present it in. It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm(Hold onto
>>the seat kiddies).
>INDUSTRIAL THRASH
>VERY INTO IT
>I HAD A BAND "DESTROY ALL MONSTERS"
>WE DID A LOT OF SPEED STUFF
YOUR SUCCESS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
> Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
>>involved while what little music is actually present in rap consists
>>entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed by the
>>producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a sampler a
>>on.
>YOU SOUND LIKE A BIGOT
>DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BLACK MUSICIANS
>YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS FUTILE
>ALL MEN ARE BROTHERS
>TAKE RESPONSIBILTY
>BILLY
Okay, enough of you. He didn't say a word about color. He said
rappers are stupid. This includes my idol Vanilla Ice. Yes, I
believe Vanilla Ice is too stupid to turn on a sampler. Moreover, he
is not my brother. My brother's name is Steve, and he lives in
Massachusetts. I take full responsibility for this statement.
> АБА АБВА
> АБВБА АБллВБА
> АБВлВБА АБВВБА
> АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
> АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
> АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
> АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
> АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
> АББл лллл лБА
> лллл . лВВл . лллл
> лАБл лВВл лБАл
> АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
> АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
> ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
> АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
> АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
> АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
> АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
> АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
> АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
> АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
> АБА АВА
get rid of this pathetic ascii waste of bandwidth before you post in
here again.
justin
--
djcleverhans(justinkendrickmaxwell) techno director kspc887fm
http://pages.pomona.edu/~jmaxwell/ mechanotherapy:sats 12-2am
akai ax60.roland tr606.moog rogue.octave cat.sci multitrak.roland juno1
roland pg300.lexicon vortex.kawai xd-5.sci prophet2000.roland rs101
"In this case i think YOU are mr.stupid!" - Henning Kristiansen
Druid
In article <n9446600.846527414@statler>, n944...@statler.cc.wwu.edu (The
sloth) wrote:
> If there were no melody, En Vogue would be nowhere. I didn't say
> _good_ melody, I said melody. The genres are physically the same
> concerning melody, if not stylistically.
I was talking about the music. They sing with melody but what little
music is actually present in their jingles contains no melody at all.
> It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm(Hold onto
> >the seat kiddies).
>
> ? What's your point?
Dance music below 100bpm is a ridiculous concept. That's my point.
> Mix magazine did an article on Boyz II Men's (Junge Zwei
> Menschen!! The new teutonic terrors!! ;-) )home studios. They pretty
> much blow Bill Leeb's away. Among them, for example, are 3 K2000's and 2
> ASR-10's.
Wow, I guess if I sold a zillion records, and knew nothing about gear, I'd
waste a shitload of money on half a dozen workstations too.
>I think you'd be disappointed if you actually grabbed a few
> Big Fish "industrial" sample CD's... You'd find many similar loops. And
> Just because FLA is a soft spot: Remember "Millenium?"
I never said using sampling loops isn't a good idea. Hell, sample the
world! Just make sure you do it well and actually write additional music
to it. That is the difference between plagiarism and sampling.
BILLY HARRIGAN
Just another installment in the Billy Harrigan fiasco, folks.
This is the mentallity of RMI now? I surely hope not!
Billy's replies are the ones in all caps.
> >> IM GONNA JAM IT UP YER ASS IN DA GROUP
> >> YER ALL DONE FUCK FACE
> >> ENEMY MINE
> >
> >Really?
>
> YES REALLY
> I DIDNT REALLY FIND MUCH IN THERE WORTH READING
> BUT NOW THAT I HAVE A FOCUS FOR MY ANGER
> SUDDENLY IM INTERESTED IN DA INDUSTRIAL SCENE
>
> Everyone there will see right through your
> >petty, childish attitude.
>
> EXACTLY
> IM THE MOST IGNORANT FUCK YOU WILL EVER MEET
> BUT IM PC TO THE MAX
> SO YAH CANT WIN
> I WILL ONLY HUMILIATE YOU
> BILLY
Just thought you might be interested
I AM
MORE THAN YOU COULD IMAGINE
АБА АБВА
АБВБА АБллВБА
АБВлВБА АБВВБА
АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
АББл лллл лБА
лллл . лВВл . лллл
лАБл лВВл лБАл
АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
АБА АВА
nerv...@geocities.com
may...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/alley/5028
http://home.earthlink.net/~mazzystar
REMEMBER THE POTATO HOLOCAUST!
FUCK THE ENGLISH NAZI PIGZ - GOD BLESS GOV. PATAKI
пп ппппп пппппп ппппп ппппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
пп ппппппп пппппп ппп пппп ппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
ппппппп пп пп пп пп ппппп ппппппп
пппппп пп пп пп ппппппп ппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
пппппп пп пп пп ппппп ппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
пп пп ппппп ппппппп ппппппп пппппп
"WELCOME TO THE PAIN AMPLIFIER" FULL LENGTH INTERNET RELEASE
FORMAT = .WAV 22050 8 BIT MONO 4.5 MEG
RECORDED LIVE AT BOGIES IN ALBANY NY
http://www.geocities.com/susetstrip/alley/5028/PAINAMP.WAV
n <55b2em$r...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY
HARRIGAN) writes:
>
>In <55b1il$n...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY
>HARRIGAN) writes:
>>
>>In <55av1d$h...@epcot.pomona.edu> jmax...@pomona.edu ([justin
>maxwell])
>>writes:
>>>
>>>may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY HARRIGAN) wrote:
>>>>OBVIOUSLY VOYER
>>>>NON PARTICIPANT
>>>
>>>hey you, yeah, the Caps Lock Kid, the word is "voyeur."
>>
>>
>>SO YER A ENGLISH TEACHER WHO GIVES A FUCK
>>DID I SPELL FUCK RIGHT?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> The process
>>>>>> of making both types of music aren't that far off from each
>other.
>>>
>>>>THIS IS TRUE
>>>>HOW DID YOU MANAGE IT
>>>>ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL?
>>>
>>>I AM SURE
>>>THAT DRUID IS FAMILIAR
>>>WITH THE TERM TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>NICE USE OF CAPS LOCK
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>What the fuck are you talking about? For one thing Industrial
>>actually
>>>>>has ::GASP:: melody
>>>
>>>>SO IF MY INDUSTRIAL DOES NOT CONTAIN MELODY I AM EXCLUDED?
>>>
>>>YES. YOU MUST LEAVE NOW.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>NO MAX IM HERE TO MAKE YER LIFE MISERABLE AND TO EXPOSE YOU FOR THE
>>BIGGOTED ASSHOLE THAT YOU ARE
>>
>>
>>>>(yes, there is more to life than a looped drum beat)
>>>
>>>>THERE IS?
>>>
>>>YES. PLEASE SEE ABOVE.
>>>
>>
>>
>>YUPPY OFFSPRING PIECE OF SHIT!
>>GO BUY ANOTHER SYNTH AND SHOVE IT UP YER ASS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>present it in. It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed
>>100bpm(Hold onto
>>>>>the seat kiddies).
>>>
>>>>INDUSTRIAL THRASH
>>>>VERY INTO IT
>>>>I HAD A BAND "DESTROY ALL MONSTERS"
>>>>WE DID A LOT OF SPEED STUFF
>>>
>>>YOUR SUCCESS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
>>>
>>
>>
>>YES IT DOES
>>I AM RESPECTED ON MY OWN TURF
>>ALBANY NY
>>
>>>> Additionally, it is actually written by the artist
>>>>>involved while what little music is actually present in rap
>consists
>>>>>entirely of loops right off of a sampler disc and is constructed
by
>>the
>>>>>producer not the rapper, as the latter is too stupid to turn a
>>sampler a
>>>>>on.
>>>
>>>>YOU SOUND LIKE A BIGOT
>>>>DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BLACK MUSICIANS
>>>>YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS FUTILE
>>>>ALL MEN ARE BROTHERS
>>>>TAKE RESPONSIBILTY
>>>>BILLY
>>>
>>>Okay, enough of you. He didn't say a word about color.
>>
>>
>>I THINK THE REFERANCE WAS CLEAR
>>WHATS THIS DAMAGE CONTROL
>>I RECOGNISE YER POISON FOR WHAT ITS WORTH AND IT MAKES YOU NERVOUS?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> He said
>>>rappers are stupid.
>>
>>
>>
>>CMON BIGOT
>>JUST SAY IT
>>FUCKIN NIGGERS CANT TURN ON A MACHINE
>>AINT THAT WHAT YAH REALLY WANNA SAY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This includes my idol Vanilla Ice. Yes, I
>>>believe Vanilla Ice is too stupid to turn on a sampler.
>>
>>
>>SO YOU CHOOSE A WHITE RAPPER AS AN EXAMPLE
>>SOUNDS LIKE MORE DAMAGE CONTROL
>>TOO LATE ASSHOLE
>>CATS OUT OF THE BAG
>>YER A RACIST YUPPY OFFSPRING SCUMBAG
>>
>>
>>
>> Moreover, he
>>>is not my brother.
>>
>>
>>
>>NO MY BROTHER
>>YOU ARE WRONG
>>AND IM GONNA HELP YOU SEE THE LIGHT
>>WITH TIME I THINK WE CAN REPROGRAM YOU
>>DONT GIVE UP HOPE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My brother's name is Steve, and he lives in
>>>Massachusetts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I take full responsibility for this statement.
>>
>>
>>
>>HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AH AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
>>TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR THE HATE YOU BREED
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> АБА АБВА
>>>> АБВБА АБллВБА
>>>> АБВлВБА АБВВБА
>>>> АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
>>>> АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
>>>> АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
>>>> АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
>>>> АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
>>>> АББл лллл лБА
>>>> лллл . лВВл . лллл
>>>> лАБл лВВл лБАл
>>>> АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
>>>> АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
>>>> ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
>>>> АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
>>>> АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
>>>> АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
>>>> АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
>>>> АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
>>>> АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
>>>> АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
>>>> АБА АВА
>>>
>>>get rid of this pathetic ascii waste of bandwidth before you post in
>>>here again.
>>>
>>
>>AINT ASCII ASSHOLE
>>SAVE TO TEXT FILE AND VIEW FROM DOS PROMPT
>>THE ONLY WASTE OF BANDWIDTH IN THIS GROUP IS YER NONSENSE
>>MY PAGE PROMOTES RACIAL HARMONY AND TRIBAL PHILOSOPHY
>>STUFF YER ANGLO SUPREMACY SHIT UP YER ASS
>>THIS IS ONE INDIAN GONNA ROCK YER WORLD
>>
>>>justin
>>>--
>>>djcleverhans(justinkendrickmaxwell) techno director
>kspc887fm
>>
>>>http://pages.pomona.edu/~jmaxwell/ mechanotherapy:sats
>>12-2am
>>>akai ax60.roland tr606.moog rogue.octave cat.sci multitrak.roland
>>juno1
>>> roland pg300.lexicon vortex.kawai xd-5.sci prophet2000.roland
rs101
>>> "In this case i think YOU are mr.stupid!" - Henning Kristiansen
>>>
>>
> АБА АБВА
> АБВБА АБллВБА
> АБВлВБА АБВВБА
> АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
> АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
> АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
> АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
> АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
> АББл лллл лБА
> лллл . лВВл . лллл
> лАБл лВВл лБАл
> АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
> АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
> ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
> АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
> АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
> АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
> АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
> АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
> АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
> АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
> АБА АВА
>
> nerv...@geocities.com
> may...@ix.netcom.com
> http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
> http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/alley/5028
> http://home.earthlink.net/~mazzystar
>
> REMEMBER THE POTATO HOLOCAUST!
> FUCK THE ENGLISH NAZI PIGZ - GOD BLESS GOV. PATAKI
>
> пп ппппп пппппп ппппп ппппппп
> пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
> пп ппппппп пппппп ппп пппп ппппп
> пп пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
> ппппппп пп пп пп пп ппппп ппппппп
>
> пппппп пп пп пп ппппппп ппппп
> пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
> пппппп пп пп пп ппппп ппппп
> пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
> пп пп ппппп ппппппп ппппппп пппппп
>
> "WELCOME TO THE PAIN AMPLIFIER" FULL LENGTH INTERNET RELEASE
> FORMAT = .WAV 22050 8 BIT MONO 4.5 MEG
> RECORDED LIVE AT BOGIES IN ALBANY NY
> http://www.geocities.com/susetstrip/alley/5028/PAINAMP.WAV
>
>
>GOVERNOR PATAKI SIGNS LEGISLATION ON MASS
> STARVATION IN IRELAND
> October 9, 1996
>
>
>
>Governor George E. Pataki today signed into law legislation that
>requires the state Board of Regents to devote
>particular attention to the study of mass starvation in Ireland from
>1845 to 1850 when establishing mandatory courses
>of instruction in human rights issues.
>
>"History teaches us the Great Irish Hunger was not the result of a
>massive failure of the Irish potato crop but rather was
>the result of a deliberate campaign by the British to deny the Irish
>people the food they needed to survive," Governor
>Pataki said.
>
>"More than one million men, women and children died as a result of
this
>mass starvation, and millions more were
>forced to flee their native land to avoid certain death, while large
>quantities of grain and livestock were exported from
>Ireland to England," the Governor said. "This tragic event had
dramatic
>implications on the United States, where
>millions of Irish immigrants had significant impacts on every facet of
>American life and culture."
>
>The legislation adds the study of the mass starvation to existing law
>that requires the Board of Regents to prescribe
>courses of instruction in patriotism, citizenship and human rights
>issues, with particular attention to be devoted to the
>study of genocide, slavery and the Holocaust. The law takes effect
>immediately.
>
>"By making instruction on the mass starvation in Ireland a part of New
>York State curriculum, it is my sincere hope that
>our state's pupils will develop a respect and universal concern for
>human rights, the sanctity of human rights and a
>tolerance of other races, religions and points of view," Governor
>Pataki said. "To instill these moral and ethical values in
>New York State's youth, it is imperative they receive a full
>appreciation of the lessons of history, however troubling
>they may be."
>
>Senator Michael Hoblock, who sponsored the legislation, said, "I
>commend Governor Pataki for signing this important
>legislation into law. The intended purpose of this legislation is
raise
>public awareness of the factual causes of the mass
>starvation and an ongoing discussion of its lessons of humanity."
>-more- "Being from Ukrainian ancestral ties, I am
>keenly aware of the necessity to inform New York's children of the
>sacrifices and injustices suffered by many of New
>York's ethnic population," the Senator said. "We must ensure that our
>children are educated to learn from past wrongs
>so that people of different ethnic origins are treated with respect
and
>mutual understanding."
>
>Assemblyman Joseph Crowley, who sponsored the legislation in the
>Assembly, said, "I thank and commend the
>Governor for his action in signing this bill today. The enactment of
>this law is important for two reasons. First, it is
>important that our students be educated as to the factual causes of
one
>of the greatest calamities of humankind that
>occurred in Ireland 150 years ago. Secondly, this law will stand as a
>living memorial to all those who suffered and died
>during An Gorta Mor, or Ireland's Great Hunger."
>
>"This lesson in humanity still needs to be taught, for it still
>occurring today,"Assemblyman Crowley said. "Hunger is still
>used as a tool of subjugation, as a means of keeping people down, in
>places like Somalia, Ethiopia and China."
>
>
>
>
BILLY HARRIGAN
BILLY HARRIGAN
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02'4mSr6iYjMfdB0$The legislation adds the study of the mass starvation to existing law
Druid
In article <327576...@ttlnet.com>, 12GaugePanda
<12gaug...@ttlnet.com> wrote:
>First off, the
> "melody" that appears in "industrial" music is generally delivered in
the form >of a
> sequencer fill rather than from the mouth of an over-distorted Ogre emulator.
Apparently, we don't listen to the same bands...
In rap, the
> same is also true...just listen to those melodic grooves in Dre's material.
See above.
> Second point: while plenty of "industrial" exceeds 100 bpms, there's an
equal abundance
> that doesn't.
I guess Morpheus is laughing now. Third point: rap musicians might rely
> more on stolen grooves, but it is comparable in lack of innovation to
the generic drum
> machine beats pumped out by any of the Zoth Ommog clan.
Could you elaborate here? Are you complaining about the lack of
innovation in 1/3 snare patterns, techno beats, or both? You must
understand that dance percussion usually works much better when it is
minimalistic.
I think when you stated that
> "people are getting stupider", it was a reference to either: (a) a guy
who creates a word
> like "stupider" or
I'm not sure what dictionary you are using, but "stupider" seems to be
legitimate according AHED.
>(b) a guy who shells out big bucks for the import version of Lassigue
> Bendthaus' Cloned CD which features about nine different versions of the
same song,
> using most , if not all, the same sounds for each one.
I would love to explain the entire purpose of _Cloned_ to you but I don't
think the yield would be worth the time investment. Suffice to say, you
are of no practicle use if you do not appreciate Lassigue Bendthaus.
> "Yo bitch, shut the fuck up" Eazy E.
"Should have used a condom."
-Ogre in reference to Eazy E.
Mark Pippins
>> Mix magazine did an article on Boyz II Men's (Junge Zwei
>> Menschen!! The new teutonic terrors!! ;-) )home studios. They pretty
>> much blow Bill Leeb's away. Among them, for example, are 3 K2000's and 2
>> ASR-10's.
>Wow, I guess if I sold a zillion records, and knew nothing about gear, I'd
>waste a shitload of money on half a dozen workstations too.
>Wow, I guess if I sold a zillion records, and knew nothing about gear, I'd
>waste a shitload of money on half a dozen workstations too.
One thing that I think we will all agree on (even you aren't stupid
enough to refute this, Druid, you fuck) is that a very basic tenet of
industrial music/culture is to fuck with interplay between the
'product' and the 'market' - Skinny Puppy put us in their show, and
many bands played little side games with the industry itself, same
guys, different label, different name (Greater Than One and
Jourgenson, et al., are great examples of this, as were the Puppy
clan) just to get around the "music industry" and it's 'norms'. Since
the sound itself is so at focus in industrial music, there are very
few 'stars', the concept in itself being highly distasteful to fans
and bands alike. We take these things for granted as industrial fans,
but don't forget these are literally 'guerilla-marketing' techniques
that would raise eyebrows in the mainstream community. (Crosby,
Stills, Nash & Young notwithstanding)
The point? For those who don't know, a little history is neccesary:
New Edition (Bubblegum Pop) came out as the 80's version of the
Jackson and had some hits. As the crew grew up, some started solo
careers (Bobby Brown, Ralph Tresvant, Bobby Gill) while the rest
formed another group (Bel Biv Devoe). They all got back together this
year to 'put New edition back on the map'. In a recent interview
(Vibe Magazine) Mike Bivens says something like:
Vibe: 'So is the new New Edition video gonna be out soon?'
Mike Bivens: 'Yeah, but why just drop one? Since people perceive this
triumirvate already, why not drop three or four? If you saw a Bobby
Brown video on Monday, a New Edition video on Tuesday, and a Bel Biv
Devoe video on Wednesday, when the Johnny Gill shit came up on
Thursday, you would be thinking 'What the fuck are they doing?'
Boom - gotcha.'
Whether you believe in selling albums or not, this is just another
example of guerilla marketing - pretty deep for a bunch of niggers who
are to stupid to do anything but make millions of dollars year after
year producing not only their own albums, but creating new groups and
producing their work as well (Boys II Men, Another Bad Creation, etc.)
You know Druid, the more you say, the better I look. Are you trying
to make yourself look stupid or dumb? I know you've got your little
bitty industrial attitude - I bet you were the first guy to but NIN's
latest album in the free world, and I bow to your vast knowledge of
all things industrial, you god, but you might want to actually _use_ a
drum machine, or try to _record_ something or even _program_ a
keyboard. Hell, go mike a go-kart spinning out , flipping and rolling
and then maybe you can tell me something about studios, idiot.
Playing metallica riffs on top of loops doesn't count for shit,
The sloth
st96...@post.drexel.edu (Druid) writes:
>I was talking about the music. They sing with melody but what little
>music is actually present in their jingles contains no melody at all.
mmmm, subjective. I think "melody" is one of those things that
we could really get into for no particular reason: "is gravity kills
melodic? How 'bout White Zombie? What does 311 mean?" Enough, enough...
>> It also has been known to ::GASP:: exceed 100bpm(Hold onto
>> >the seat kiddies).
>>
>> ? What's your point?
>Dance music below 100bpm is a ridiculous concept. That's my point.
heh. Name me a 100.01 or greater BPM waltz, and I'll agree with you.
You can't really slowdance to EBM, ya know? and if there's no slow dancing,
you might as well be _line_ dancing...
>Wow, I guess if I sold a zillion records, and knew nothing about gear, I'd
>waste a shitload of money on half a dozen workstations too.
I know I would...;-) Now be fair. Them homies have produced
more albums than their own. Simply because you (or I) don't like their
music doesn't make them incompetent.
>I never said using sampling loops isn't a good idea. Hell, sample the
>world! Just make sure you do it well and actually write additional music
>to it. That is the difference between plagiarism and sampling.
And that, sir, is another fine line that I don't really want to
map out.
<(*)>sloth<(*)>
VSVN ARAB
st96...@post.drexel.edu (Druid) wrote:
>Dance music below 100bpm is a ridiculous concept. That's my point.
not really. it depends on how much swing that is present in the beat.
but being that you only relate to one type of music, then i can
understand how you wouldn't grasp this simple concept.
hell, at least your idol Lassigue grasps this idea. if you don't think
so, then check out some of Uwe's other more recent projects.
VSVN ARAB
Brian MacDonald
BTW, the new Chem Bros single is quite a treat. ("Setting Sun")
"Buzz Tracks" is a perfect soundtrack to this thread.
==================================================================
Brian MacDonald <bri...@kuci.uci.edu>, an internet/www guy for
KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County
"You must be the pot and the kettle" - THE RIPPER
==================================================================
Brian MacDonald
Hey... a cool thread for once! -- not counting the capslocked trolls.
I must admit if it weren't for Meat Beat's "Storm The Studio",
I wouldn't have gotten into Public Enemy or De La Soul or
Schooly D or even the UMCs.
[I'm entering top-of-the-head shovelling-it journalist mode right now.
You've been warned. ;)]
As was mentioned, many industrial groups (Meat Beat, older Penal
Colony, etc.) had openly embraced hip-hop, but not as much vice versa
as claimed.
Whereas part of industrial's mission (ok, I'm slightly out of my
bounds here) is sound experimentation, that's not necessarily the
case with hip-hop. Hip-hop never claimed to be a forum of
"sound experimentation" but more a search for certain "grooves"
and "jams". (Sorry for the quote ODs)... and with N.W.A. came the
whole "gangsta" theme.. and De La Soul's peace vibe. There's more
defined lyrical contexts with hip-hop than industrial, while at the
same time there's seemingly more embracing of other kinds of music
with the industrial moniker than hip-hop.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that hip-hop's mission, whatever that
is, is not the same as industrial's mission, whatever the hell *that*
is -- although they may use the same tools and techniques to further
each's exploration. And mutants like Meat Beat or Tackhead (see
below) will exist and blow minds.
Sure, the kickoff track on Public Enemy's "Apocalypse Strikes Black"
sounds very similar to Meat Beat Manifesto -- "Storm the Studio"
era... or vice versa. OK, so more Meat Beat fans became P.E. fans
and not so much the opposite. I don't think that means hip-hop
fans are not as open-minded.... It's just that fans of each appreciate
different things about their favorite genre.... and really fucked up
rhythm loops is something that's more appreciated in industrial than
hip-hop. Plus we're just talking about the fans here... I'm sure
Hank Shocklee has been well aware of revelations in hip-hop and
mutants thereof for quite a while... Hip-hop producers aren't given
as much credit as they sometimes deserve.
Don't forget that some of the roots of hip-hop have actually had
roots in industrial as well. Namely, Tackhead. Adrian Sherwood,
Keith LeBlanc, Doug Wimbish, Skip McDonald, and that whole bunch
have worked with everyone from Afrika Bambataa to Mick Jagger
(on that really embarrassing "Strange Things" album admittedly)
to Uncle Al to Depeche Mode.
To me, the whole unity between hip-hop and industrial comes with
the legalities of sampling. If a hip-hop act were to win a sampling
case against a complaining source artists, that would cause revelations
in both hip-hop and industrial worlds. Of course, hip-hop is far
more popular than industrial, so hip-hop would be better off carrying
that torch. (Admittedly, this is all stuff that Mark Hosler of
Negativland had discussed in an interview a year ago)
I guess that's enough from me already... but the whole hip-hop/noise/
industrial hybrid sound has always been a fetish of mine, and I wished
there were more groups trying more bizarre fucked angles on that
whole tip. Hip-hop has been pretty stagnant for me the past three or
so years. Someone please come up with 5/4 or 7/4 hip-hop or
*something*!
Michael Trice
Christopher M Moore wrote:
>
> In <deftlyd-2910...@p2.ts1.lowel.ma.tiac.com> def...@tiac.net
> (Deftly-D) writes:
> Before Front 242 or Skinny Puppy were using heavy beat driven
> >music, rap made the sound.
>
> while mostly i agree with you, i'd like to point out that bands like
> t.g. predated and probably influenced rap, as opposed to the other way
> around.
That's not true. I think the problem with this statement is that you're
likely comparing the start of throbbing gristle career with the
beginning of
rap music on the radio which isn't realistic. Rap music owes it's
heritage to
reggae, not industrial. If you really think about it, the concept of
intercity
youth getting musical ideals from a newborn british underground scene in
the mid-70's
is pretty far-fetched. In fact, it would appear that both movements
occured simutaneously
spawned by the electronic technology that was starting to be available
at the time.
and while i know puppy and 242 were influenced by rap, i think
> they were more interested in that cab voltaire/tg sort of sound.
This I would agree on especially when you listen to some of the early
SP.
M. Trice
mtr...@lucent.com
12GaugePanda
Druid wrote:
> Apparently, we don't listen to the same bands...
If we did, then you'd be able to constructively analyze hip hop. Believe it or not,
but hip hop surfaced long before Operation Beatbox.
>>rap musicians might rely more on stolen grooves, but it is comparable in lack of
>>innovation to the generic drum machine beats pumped out by any of the Zoth Ommog
>>clan.
>
> Could you elaborate here? You must
> understand that dance percussion usually works much better when it is
> minimalistic.
Bravo! You illustrated my point while simultaneously disproving your own, i.e.
both genres are known for having an over abundant amount of composers
relying on minimalistic beats, most of which come straight off the same drum machines.
In other words, hip hop and industrial are not as far removed as your initial post
attempted to perpetrate.
> I'm not sure what dictionary you are using, but "stupider" seems to be
> legitimate according AHED.
Random House and Webster disagree, but since you have the tattoo on your forehead,
I'll concede.
> I would love to explain the entire purpose of _Cloned_ to you but I don't
> think the yield would be worth the time investment. Suffice to say, you
> are of no practicle use if you do not appreciate Lassigue Bendthaus.
Damn, I was hoping for an intelligent diseration on the genius behind LB. Although LB
illustrated some innovative concepts on Cloned, they made the error of delivering them in
the form of boring bleeps and blips. At least Meat Beat Manifesto recycled their sound in
an enjoyable fashion.
Maybe you should kindly step aside and go take part in the KMFDM definition thread.
You're bound to find others who share your wisdom.
12GP
"It's not you, it's me...I no longer find you attractive."
downfall
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, 12GaugePanda wrote:
> Bravo! You illustrated my point while simultaneously disproving your own, i.e.
> both genres are known for having an over abundant amount of composers
> relying on minimalistic beats, most of which come straight off the same drum machines.
> In other words, hip hop and industrial are not as far removed as your initial post
> attempted to perpetrate.
damnit damnit sunovabeaotch! last time i say this. . .industrial is about
sound. . .layering sound. . .doing things with sound. . .interest with
sound. . .rap isn't about sound. . .it's about innercity, grooves. . .etc.
if we were to use your brand of logic we'd find that death metal and
country music aren't far removed at all. . .scary. . .get a grip. .
.genres aren't defined by what instruments they employ. . .but what they
go after. . .what they seek to achieve. . .rap wishes to deliver a
message, industrial is about sound. . .you couldn't get much farther
apart.
what mbm, fla. . .etc sample, listen to whatever doesn't matter. . .the
theme of the genres matter. the genesis of the genres matter. . .if you
really would like to trace each genre back to it's vanishing point on the
horizon of music you'll find that rap comes from regae and industrial (in
it's earliest, pre-tg form) can be found in the works of john cage. . .you
couldn't get much different than that.
downfall
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Mark Pippins wrote:
> New Edition (Bubblegum Pop) came out as the 80's version of the
> . . .They all got back together this year to 'put New edition back on
> the map'.
deep thoughts interview snipped. . .
> Whether you believe in selling albums or not, this is just another
> example of guerilla marketing - pretty deep for a bunch of niggers who
> are to stupid to do anything but make millions of dollars year after
> year producing not only their own albums, but creating new groups and
> producing their work as well (Boys II Men, Another Bad Creation, etc.)
unfortunately you left out the juicy parts. . .careers began to dry up. .
.things went bad. . .brown was known only as "whitney's husband". . . bell
biv devoe, abc. . .all died. . .nothing ape about it, babe. . .they needed
to pay for those houses. . .so old edition reunited. . .two smacks from
daddy for even comparing it to the camp jorgensen created in the
mid-eighties.
> You know Druid, the more you say, the better I look. Are you trying
> to make yourself look stupid or dumb?. . .I bet you were the first guy
> to but NIN's latest album in the free world. . .
you must be pretty new here. . .
> all things industrial, you god, but you might want to actually _use_ a
> drum machine, or try to _record_ something or even _program_ a
> keyboard.
just a quick corection. . .a lot of bands perfer samplers over drum
machines. . .see the "best drum machine thread" for further details. . .
but at any rate. . .i don't see how this pertains to the thread.
> Playing metallica riffs on top of loops doesn't count for shit,
sad. . .sad. . .sad. . .gorilla boy doesn't understand the genre. . .so
sad. . .you must've been raized by stabbing westward. . .sad. . .sad. .
.sad.
Stephen K. Prater
HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!
forgive me for sounding stupid, but i just can't help it.
there is good rap - coolio, mary j. blige
there is good industrial - f242, FLA
there is bad rap - dr. dre, snoop dogg shit
there is bad industrial - nitzerebb, drown
regardless of what genre you prefer, your music still either sucks or
doesn't - see?
BTW, rap & industrial -> funk and disco -> rock -> blues -> jazz ->
ragtime -> blah blah blah classical.
-dystopic
end of line.
downfall
On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, Mark Pippins wrote:
> Some complete and absolute fucking idiot (downfall) said:
thanks for the compliment. . .i know i'm sad. . .i know i'm an idiot. .
.tell me something i don't know.
> >sad. . .sad. . .sad. . .gorilla boy doesn't understand the genre. . .so
> >sad. . .you must've been raized by stabbing westward. . .sad. . .sad. .
> >.sad.
>
> WHO IS STABBING WESTWARD? WHAT DO THEY SOUND LIKE?
third rate industrial rawk. . .sad. . .not that great. . .pretty boring.
> I hadn't heard of them until now. As for being new here, you're
> right: I haven't been on RMI since around 1990 - where were you then?
high school. . .no net access then. . .but as the old phrase goes. . .what
have you done for me lately?
> Oh yeah, I know where you were at - you were hearing NIN for the first
> time over at Druids place. I'm the guy who was sick of NIN before
> pretty hate machine came out, so how new do you think I am, fool?
boy the insults become more and more original. . .nin insults. . .ooh i'm
hurt. . .proving you're hardcore by slamming nin? wow. . .colour me
impressed.
> Get me straight - I used to be the industrial purist asshole that I
> mention in my original post.
maybe you should go back. . .it's suits you better. . .not all
advancements are meant to take place.
> If you would get over your clingy selfhelpthroughbetterracism
> socialschism for a moment (Boris Mikulic gets props) you'd pick up the
> fact that nobody here is trying to say that rap and industrial are the
> same thing.
i know. . .i didn't think i implied that in my statement. . .the thesis
was that industrial and rap share the same breeding. . .that they are
essentially blood because they both sample. . .they both use beats etc. .
.my theory was that they are in no way the same (despite using the same
instruments) because their origins are different and what they seek to
achieve is different. . .that the genre is defined by what it goes after,
as opposed to what it uses (which most of the posts to this thread have
seemed to imply.)
> We're just trying to intelligently deconstruct two similar genres - why
> and how are they similar/dissimilar.
really? i thought it was about slamming druid. . .at least that's what
it's turned into. . .group fucking is not a part of deconstructing two
genres, which, to me, seem as far apart from each other as can be. . .
though you can always argue that they both sample. . .use drum machines.
but you can niether argue that they come from the same place. . .that the
siminal bands in each genre accomplished the same things.
> It's academic. This is in itself is a very typically 'industrial'
> behavior - the tendency to analyze and
> break down ideas to basic elements, discarding 'myths' and 'religious
> beliefs' in favor of 'hard evidence'.
hard evidence? hm. . .alright. . .compare puppy's vivisectvi and p.e's
fear of a black planet. . .tell me. . .aside from samples. . .and drum
machines do the achieve the same things? does t.g. and grand master
flash (?) do the same things musically?
> I really get the idea that you and your buddy Druid hang out together
> and try to make out like you guys are the ultimate industrialists.
me and druid? buddies? (whips head back, cackling) please. (wiping
tears from eyes). . .try again. . .you've got the wrong house. . .little
old me? being the ultimate industrialist? i'll leave that up to fran,
druid and the duke to fight over. . .
> Get over yourselves, really. It's pathetic. It will be your
> downfall.
i can't. . .it's just to much fun, loving myself. . .could someone pass
the k.y?
Mark Pippins
Some complete and absolute fucking idiot (downfall) said:
>sad. . .sad. . .sad. . .gorilla boy doesn't understand the genre. . .so
>sad. . .you must've been raized by stabbing westward. . .sad. . .sad. .
>.sad.
WHO IS STABBING WESTWARD? WHAT DO THEY SOUND LIKE?
I hadn't heard of them until now. As for being new here, you're
right: I haven't been on RMI since around 1990 - where were you then?
Oh yeah, I know where you were at - you were hearing NIN for the first
time over at Druids place. I'm the guy who was sick of NIN before
pretty hate machine came out, so how new do you think I am, fool?
Get me straight - I used to be the industrial purist asshole that I
mention in my original post. If you would get over your clingy
selfhelpthroughbetterracism socialschism for a moment (Boris Mikulic
gets props) you'd pick up the fact that nobody here is trying to say
that rap and industrial are the same thing. We're just trying to
intelligently deconstruct two similar genres - why and how are they
similar/dissimilar. It's academic. This is in itself is a very
typically 'industrial' behavior - the tendency to analyze and break
down ideas to basic elements, discarding 'myths' and 'religious
beliefs' in favor of 'hard evidence'.
I really get the idea that you and your buddy Druid hang out together
and try to make out like you guys are the ultimate industrialists.
The sloth
use...@aol.com (UseMe01) writes:
>>>Christ, you people are getting stupider every fucking day.
>Druid, every time you open your mouth you make a bigger ass out of
>yourself.
Actually I find him highly amusing. I wouldn't shut druid up for
all the tea in china (the capslock kid, on the other hand...)
<(*)>sloth<(*)>
David V Elman
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.industrial: 3-Nov-96 Re: Rap vs.
Industrial vs. .. by Stephen K. Prater@prodig
Have to disagree here. First off, I don't even consider drown industrial
or metal or whatever. They're in a genre-less league of their own.
Second, I was under the impression that nitzer ebb influenced a bunch of
people, so they really can't be that bad, can they? :) I know there's no
reasoning behind this, but hey - it's my opinion anyway ...
stash
===============================================
"And something leaned in, vastness unutterable,
from beyond the most distant edge of anything
he'd ever known or imagined, and touched him."
- William Gibson
===============================================
Mark Pippins
downfall pulled his head out his ass for a moment to say:
>hard evidence? hm. . .alright. . .compare puppy's vivisectvi and p.e's
>fear of a black planet. . .tell me. . .aside from samples. . .and drum
>machines do the achieve the same things? does t.g. and grand master
>flash (?) do the same things musically?
Well anybody can pick two bands that seem to have nothing common.
Even within the same genre. Step away from your stereo for a moment,
and re-read my original post - as for tg and grandmaster flash,
remember that in 1978-79 'scratching' was just as 'harsh' to the older
r&b-buying black public as 66sect6 was to my stoner roomate ('is it
supposed to sound like that?') in 1986.
Grandmaster Flash threw the street into the mix, discussing drugs,
crimes, racism and injustice (ok you purists, I know that Melle Mel
did vocals). I wonder how close that first album sounded to the very
street that they were hanging out on before they produced it.
VIVIsectVI covers some of the same ground (drug addiction) from a
different perspective, and it also showcases some fairly radical (for
those days) studio techniques (like using a turntable as an
instrument).
Now, I don't really like GP, but he claims that when tg finished their
first album, he didn't know if it was success or failure, because it
mirrored the sounds that he was hearing on the street in his daily
life.
By the way, thanx for the mix idea -
Grandmaster Flash - ' White Lines'
Skinny Puppy - 'Harsh Stone White'
Finally, I state again that I don't consider the two genres the same.
You want to find more similarities, compare rap and punk, or
industrial and real life. I pick on people like you and Druid,
because that bullshit holier-than-thou attitude didn't look good in
the mid-eighties and it's dead and stinking in the late nineties.
Sorry NIN fans for the anti-NIN sentiments (I didn't mean to hurt your
feelings, downfall) but that guy got on my last nerve in 1989.
Thin White Duke
< me and druid? buddies? (whips head back, cackling) please. (wiping
< tears from eyes). . .try again. . .you've got the wrong house. . .little
< old me? being the ultimate industrialist? i'll leave that up to fran,
< druid and the duke to fight over. . .
Wow! I made the triumverate! Who woulda thunk it?
--
"This is intended for the entertainment and instruction of broad-minded adults only and should not be played to or sold to minors under any circumstances whatsoever. Thank you."
This message has been brought to you by the number 23 and Thin White Duke.
The sloth
wr...@topdog.cs.umbc.edu (Vijay Gill) writes:
>The rest of the post has been dealt with quite well by the other
>people on the thread, so I'll just stick to this point.
>Sorority fluff is _not_ cuter than chicks who actually dig SP.
And _that_ is nothing but your own personal opinion, just as mine
is.
You
>just can't generalize to whole groups of people like that.
When describing a "group" of people, you can do nothing BUT
generalize! otherwise you have to describe each individually.
There are
>some good looking sorority women and industrialites, it just depends
>on which mindset you find yourself attracted to. There are some
>amazingly good looking women at the capitol ballroom for example.
And there are some truly amazing looking women who hang out at
the Fenix (hey, aggie! ;-) ). However, there are a hell of a lot more
of them at the technohaunts. My opinion vs. yours...
<(*)>sloth<(*)>
BILLY HARRIGAN
In <n9446600.847084338@statler> n944...@statler.cc.wwu.edu (The sloth)
writes:
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KINDA LEAVES YAH FEELIN IMPADENT DONT IT SLOTH!
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АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
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АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
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АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
АБА АВА
nerv...@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/alley/5028
WELCOME TO THE PAIN AMPLIFIER!
MARC42
In article <55mgmt$4...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY HARRIGAN) wrote:
> ككككككك كك كك ككككك كك كك
> كك كك كك كك كك كك كك
> ككككك كك كك ككك ككككك
> كك كك كك كك كك كك كك
> كك ككككك ككككك كك كك
>
>
> كك كك ككككك كك كك
> كك كك كك كك كك كك
> كككك ككك ككك كك كك
> كك كك كك كك كك
> كك ككككك ككككك
>
Sorry, I don't speak German.
>KINDA LEAVES YAH FEELIN IMPADENT DONT IT SLOTH!
Makes me want to take a nap is what it does.
;p
Marc
Visit Marc42's Underground Psiber City
(a wee humble corner of cyberspace)
Home of "id" World Domination Headquarters
and A Salute To Wallace & Ladmo
http://www.azaccess.com/~marc42
"You Must Be The Pot & The Kettle"- Goat Boy
"There are two kinds of people in this world,
..those that put people into two groups,
and those that don't"- Some guy's sig file that I ripped off
Destruct
>
> That's not true. I think the problem with this statement is that you're
> likely comparing the start of throbbing gristle career with the
> beginning of
> rap music on the radio which isn't realistic. Rap music owes it's
> heritage to
> reggae, not industrial. If you really think about it, the concept of
> intercity
> youth getting musical ideals from a newborn british underground scene in
> the mid-70's
> is pretty far-fetched. In fact, it would appear that both movements
> occured simutaneously
> spawned by the electronic technology that was starting to be available
> at the time.
This isn't entirely true... i've read a few books on the history of
rap/hip-hop
music, and a large number of early rappers were VERY heavily influenced
by the
early European electronic scene... many "old-school" rappers, site
Kraftwerk
as a big influence on their music.
--
Destruction (n) destroying or being destroyed; what destroys,
cause of ruin.
- Concise Oxford English Dictionary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DESTRUkT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
hom epag e: htt p:// ww w. netli nk.c o.nz/ ~ d estru ct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jessica Tibbits
Shaemus (Sha...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I think the only industrial band (Well catagorized as industrial)
: that mixed rap and industrial together the best:
: CONSOLIDATED, although a few of their songs get annoying quick.
: ("White American Male" for instance)
ever heard of MEAT BEAT MANIFESTO?
-b. echthros (from his GF's account, back fo' da nine six you
clue-impaired suckas)
Sunil Mishra
In article <Pine.OSF.3.93.961102...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> downfall <ew20...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> writes:
\\ damnit damnit sunovabeaotch! last time i say this. . .industrial is about
\\ sound. . .layering sound. . .doing things with sound. . .interest with
\\ sound. . .rap isn't about sound. . .it's about innercity, grooves. . .etc.
\\ if we were to use your brand of logic we'd find that death metal and
\\ country music aren't far removed at all. . .scary. . .get a grip. .
\\ .genres aren't defined by what instruments they employ. . .but what they
\\ go after. . .what they seek to achieve. . .rap wishes to deliver a
\\ message, industrial is about sound. . .you couldn't get much farther
\\ apart.
That use of sound is to get a point across. Read the TG interview in the
industrial culture handbook, by re/search. Also check out the interviews by
Cab Voltaire and SPK while you are at it. What you are describing is what
some modern industrial has become, which incidentally is not that far
removed from some pop where the sole aim appears to be the gratuitous
production of cool sounds.
\\ what mbm, fla. . .etc sample, listen to whatever doesn't matter. . .the
\\ theme of the genres matter. the genesis of the genres matter. . .if you
\\ really would like to trace each genre back to it's vanishing point on the
\\ horizon of music you'll find that rap comes from regae and industrial (in
\\ it's earliest, pre-tg form) can be found in the works of john cage. . .you
\\ couldn't get much different than that.
The term industrial was coined by TG & co. Anyone preceding them I would
describe as influences, call me stupid.
Sunil
James Cooney
>Shaemus (Sha...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: I think the only industrial band (Well catagorized as industrial)
>: that mixed rap and industrial together the best:
>: CONSOLIDATED, although a few of their songs get annoying quick.
>: ("White American Male" for instance)
Ever hear This is A collective? Pure rap/hip-hop.
Druid
In article <327AB1...@ttlnet.com>, 12GaugePanda
<12gaug...@ttlnet.com> wrote:
> Random House and Webster disagree, but since you have the tattoo on your
forehead,
> I'll concede.
Buddy, let me let you in on a little secret. You see, you are #31. That
is, you are the 31st asshole who has seen it fit to one day pop out of the
wood work and begin insult/psychoanalysing me as if we've known each
others our whole lifes, in some desperate attempt to justify your pitiful
opinions. Honestly, how long have you been on RMI? What one, two weeks?
A month if your lucky? Do you really think you're ready for this?
Why don't you just capitulate now before you have invested serious amounts
of time and effort into this little attempted coupe of yours? The hard
and steady fact of the matter is that I will be here instructing people on
the subject of Electro-Industrial music long after you are gone. Every
month or so, a new hot shot such as yourself who thinks they know what I'm
about pops up, but in the end, I always prevail. You simply can not hide
from the truth, and that is exactly what I'm about.
Just look at this inane argument of yours attempting to link Negroid dance
music with European electronic music. It's cute and all, and I hope for
your sake you've managed to use it successfully to justify your puerile,
undeveloped tastes in music, but no one of any intelligence is going to
buy it. It is, in fact, so insipid that I have consciously imposed a
limit on the amount of energy am I allowed to expend indulging your
fifteen minutes of fame.
Druid
downfall
On 5 Nov 1996, Sunil Mishra wrote:
> That use of sound is to get a point across. Read the TG interview in the
> industrial culture handbook, by re/search. Also check out the interviews by
> Cab Voltaire and SPK while you are at it. What you are describing is what
> some modern industrial has become, which incidentally is not that far
> removed from some pop where the sole aim appears to be the gratuitous
> production of cool sounds.
looking over my original post (it was pretty painful to do so) i left that
vital point out. . .however. . .it must be noted that pop, by nature, is
much more concearned with music, structure and melody, whereas industrial,
imho, shouldn't be concearned with that, but if it happens, in the course
of creating pieces of sound, that's fine.
> \\ what mbm, fla. . .etc sample, listen to whatever doesn't matter. . .the
> \\ theme of the genres matter. the genesis of the genres matter. . .if you
> \\ really would like to trace each genre back to it's vanishing point on the
> \\ horizon of music you'll find that rap comes from regae and industrial (in
> \\ it's earliest, pre-tg form) can be found in the works of john cage. . .you
> \\ couldn't get much different than that.
>
> The term industrial was coined by TG & co. Anyone preceding them I would
> describe as influences, call me stupid.
cage. . .imho. . .is pre-industrial. . . he is neither associated
with the industrial revolution or the industrial records label. . .but
to over look his work would be most unfortunate. he's one of the earliest
guys i can think of that was working with sound in interesting ways. . .he
was fascinated with noise. . .and silence. . .he was very industrial. .
of course, this is just mho and your milage may vary.
Brian MacDonald
Ur, Tackhead anyone?
(Wondering if my big post in this thread actually made it through)
Yes, the recent stuff is sulfurous, but you can't deny some of the
stuff of '86 and '87... Probably the only group to contain an
influential producer of "industrial" (Adrian Sherwood) and close
ties to the Sugarhill gang, one of the originators of rap/hip-hop.
BILLY HARRIGAN
In <55nrna$f...@nexp.crl.com> mar...@azaccess.com (MARC42) writes:
>
>In article <55mgmt$4...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>,
may...@ix.netcom.com(BILLY HARRIGAN) wrote:
>
>> пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
>> ппппп пп пп ппп ппппп
>> пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
>> пп ппппп ппппп пп пп
>>
>>
>> пп пп ппппп пп пп
>> пп пп пп пп пп пп
>> пппп ппп ппп пп пп
>> пп пп пп пп пп
>> пп ппппп ппппп
>>
>
>>KINDA LEAVES YAH FEELIN IMPADENT DONT IT SLOTH!
>
>Makes me want to take a nap is what it does.
>
>;p
>Marc
>
WELL DONT LET ME KEEP YAH UP......
АБА АБВА
АБВБА АБллВБА
АБВлВБА АБВВБА
АБВллллВА АБВллллллллллВББА АБВлллБА
АВА АВБА АБВллллллллллллллллВБА АВБА
АБ АБВллллллллллллллллллВБА АБ
АБВлллллллллллллллллллллВА
АББммммммммммВВмммммммммБА
АББл лллл лБА
лллл . лВВл . лллл
лАБл лВВл лБАл
АБппппппппппВВпппппппппБА
АБВВллллллВВВВВВлллллВББА
ААБВллллА ВВ АлллВБАА
АБВлллллллллллллллллВБА
АБВлллВлВВлВллВБА
АБ АБВлллллллллВБА АВ
АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
АБВллВБА м I I I I I м АБВА АБА
АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
АБВВлБА АБВлллВБА АБВВБА
АБА АВА
nerv...@geocities.com
may...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/alley/5028
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
TRIBAL INDUSTRIAL MUSIC AND ART!
Brian MacDonald
Too bad Mirsky has closed up Worst of the Web (as of Nov 1.) as
Billy's pages would have made excellent candidates. Ya gotta
love those geocities ad templates fronting such a "scary" home
page. (not too mention the seriously frightening low-depth
pixelation on the graphics)
"Huh huh huhuh... Hey Beavis... Crash Worship is cool. Huhhuh"
"Yeah! Yeah! Hehe hehe! I've been to one of their concerts..
FIRE! FIRE! Hehehe!"
BILLY HARRIGAN
In <55roqp$6...@news1.intelenet.net> Brian MacDonald
<bri...@kuci.uci.edu> writes:
>
>
>Too bad Mirsky has closed up Worst of the Web (as of Nov 1.) as
>Billy's pages would have made excellent candidates.
WELL TANKZ ALOT BRO......HA HAHAH H AH AH HA
Ya gotta
>love those geocities ad templates fronting such a "scary" home
>page.
HAH AHA HH AH A HAH AHAH AHAH AH H AHAH AH A HAH HA HA
THEY SENT ME A LETTER SAID I COULDNT PARTICIPATE IN THE HOME SITE OF DA
WEEK THANG BECAUSE MY FONTS WERE TO -
пп ппппп пппппп ппппп ппппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
пп ппппппп пппппп ппп пппп ппппп
пп пп пп пп пп пп пп пп
ппппппп пп пп пп пп ппппп ппппппп
HAHAHA HAH A A AHAH HA HA HAH AH AH AHHA HAH AH HA
I KILL MYSELF!
AHH AHAH AH A HAH HA HA
(not too mention the seriously frightening low-depth
>pixelation on the graphics)
I GOT THE GRAFIX JAMMED IN DERE
AND IT STILL ROCKS ON DA LOAD SPEED
AINT GOTTA WAIT ALL DAY FER ME PAGE TO LOAD N SHIT
BUT DA PIX ARE RIGHT IN YER FACE
HAH AHA HAH HA H AH AH AHAH AH AH H AH AHHA HA
SERIOUS FUCKIN PHREAK OUT ON DA CHEMICAL
HAH AHA HHA HAH A HAH AH A HHAH AH AHHA HAH AHHA HAH AH HA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
SORRY
I HAVE NO ARMS AND LEGS AND I TYPE WITH MY PENIS
IF I LAUGH TO HARD MY DICK BOBS AND I STUB IT TYPIN
>
>"Huh huh huhuh... Hey Beavis... Crash Worship is cool. Huhhuh"
CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH
>
>"Yeah! Yeah! Hehe hehe! I've been to one of their concerts..
> FIRE! FIRE! Hehehe!"
>
>
HAH AHAH AH HA HA HA H AHA H AH AHAH AH AHHA HA H AH AH H AH A
ANTI TECHNOLOGY
REVERSE EVOLUTION
HAHA HAH AH AH A HAH A HAH AH HAH AH AH
CHROMAGNON WEB PAGES
AHH AHAH AH AH AH AH A HAH AHAH A HAH AH AH AH H A
AND ALL THAT WONDERFUL NOISE!
NOISE NOISE NOISE!
WHITE NOISE
PINK NOISE
MORE NOISE
I MUST HAVE NOISE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
phoenix.hawk
In article <55j7t6$15...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, LHK...@prodigy.com
says...
>there is good rap - coolio, mary j. blige
>there is good industrial - f242, FLA
Your premise is fine. But why, out of all the people you could pick, would
you pick Coolio (a cool guy with a cool Stevie Wonder cover admittedly, and a
few other OK songs, but not that good) and mary j. blige (give me a break).
You need to branch out your rap just a teensy bit.
I don't listen to much rap, but if I were to name two albums they would be
Cypress Hill (yeah, I know it's trendy and Cypress Hill concerts are
basically unattendable because of the dickhead quotient of the crowd) and the
Genius from Wu-Tang. Maybe PE or Tribe Called Quest. And I have been told
Black Moon is fucking awesome and some of it is, I haven't heard enough to
say for sure.
>there is bad rap - dr. dre, snoop dogg shit
>there is bad industrial - nitzerebb, drown
>
>regardless of what genre you prefer, your music still either sucks or
>doesn't - see?
Once again...
nitzer ebb bad? It's incredibly minimalistic, but it isn't bad. Join in the
Chant has got to be the most easily described song in the world. "Four four
beat, catchy bassline, and a guy yelling 'guns' and 'fire'." It still beats
the pants of off tons of modern "complicated" EBM.
--
"And the one who was to be called Messiah said to him,
'An effort that is undertaken to achieve perfect
understanding cannot succeed.' To which he replied,
'But what is a perfect understanding? Is it
perfection itself, or is it what it claims to be,
merely an understanding of that perfection? And so,
if one achieves it, must one be aware of it?'"
phoenix.hawk
>>>INDUSTRIAL THRASH
>>>VERY INTO IT
>>>I HAD A BAND "DESTROY ALL MONSTERS"
>>>WE DID A LOT OF SPEED STUFF
>>
>>YOUR SUCCESS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
>>
>
>
>YES IT DOES
>I AM RESPECTED ON MY OWN TURF
>ALBANY NY
Aside from the fact that you are pretty much the stupidest person I have ever
seen post to RMI, I couldn't help laughing very, very hard at the image of
someone being "respected" in Albany.
For what? Tipping cows?
Mark Pippins
Sorry to post twice in a row, but Druid said:
>No. Industrial music is about music with an special emphasis on the
>sounds used to make it(be them keyboards or banging on oil drums). That's
>it. This is not punk rock. There is no message or political/social
>ideology attached to the music.
You know what? You're right. LeatherStrip bitches continously about
Hitler and the 'White Disgrace" because he thinks it's funny. Skinny
Puppy are really burger-loving litterbugs - that shit that they say
and do onstage is just a series of twisted jokes that I didn't get
until right now. Cabaret Voltaire just uses samples of police
shooting people 'cause the had that shit laying around.
I was so wrong - slap my hand!
Mark Pippins
>I'm not sure I follow your logic here. You claim to hate NIN before they
>released their first album? I must admit that you have beat in this area
>then.
Exactly - I was a DJ, and I had heard way too much of PHM at least 3
months before it was released - us cool guys know what sucks before it
hits the market - when it did hit the market, and people started
telling me that NIN was "more industrial" (people who don't own .02%
as many CDs or albums as me) than Controlled Bleeding, Merzbow,
Cyberaktif, etc.
Live with it.
Mark Pippins
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Mark Pippins
Here's a short Snoop Doggy Dogg sample that could be a ripoff off
Klaus Larsen - I know some of you hadn't heard this shit so I'll
upload this and maybe a couple more "industrial-sounding rap" samples.
Like I said, this sounds a lot like leatherStrip to me - any other
Klaus fans agree?
Mark Pippins
begin 644 snoopdog.wav
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Mark Pippins
I tried to upload a binary here and it got rejected. When I get back,
I'll upload it to alt.binaries.hiphop or whatever and post the
location.
Slap my hand
Mark Pippins
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LOgre2'3 (Killin' shrimp with a crowbar.. in a barbed wire canoe..)
Mark Pippins (st...@interport.net) wrote:
: Here's a short Snoop Doggy Dogg sample that could be a ripoff off
: Klaus Larsen - I know some of you hadn't heard this shit so I'll
: upload this and maybe a couple more "industrial-sounding rap" samples.
Repeat after me: This is not a binaries newsgroup.
12GaugePanda
>Druid wrote:
>Buddy, let me let you in on a little secret. You see, you are #31. That
>is, you are the 31st asshole who has seen it fit to one day pop out of the
>wood work and begin insult/psychoanalysing me as if we've known each
>others our whole lifes, in some desperate attempt to justify your pitiful
>opinions. Honestly, how long have you been on RMI? What one, two weeks?
>A month if your lucky? Do you really think you're ready for this?
Try about two years, but only a month or so under this new account. In regards to the
insults, taunts, and derision packed into my posts, they're primarily for entertainment
value, but if you look behind the sarcasm, you'll realize I speak the facts. I also
realize that by busting you in the kneecaps, I've left you no choice but to retaliate,
rather than to concede. I apologize for that.
>Why don't you just capitulate now before you have invested serious amounts
>of time and effort into this little attempted coupe of yours? The hard
>and steady fact of the matter is that I will be here instructing people on
>the subject of Electro-Industrial music long after you are gone. Every
>month or so, a new hot shot such as yourself who thinks they know what I'm
>about pops up, but in the end, I always prevail.
"It is better to be silent and considered a fool, then to open your mouth and remove
all doubt." I guess you're a lost cause.
>You simply can not hide
>from the truth, and that is exactly what I'm about.
Oddly enough, that's the reason why I decided to post a response. Being a lurker more
often than a poster, I find it much more relaxing to only take action when someone
makes a glaring error that might be misconstrued as truth.
>Just look at this inane argument of yours attempting to link Negroid dance
>music with European electronic music. It's cute and all, and I hope for
>your sake you've managed to use it successfully to justify your puerile,
>undeveloped tastes in music, but no one of any intelligence is going to
>buy it.
Hello! Anybody home? I know somebody must be living over there, because I keep
seeing your name. Let's take a walk back in time to your original post. You made
the allusion that hip hop music and industrial had nothing in common and that electro
music had melody while hip hop did not. I contended successfully that they both had
interlocking cornerstones, especially in '96. The similarities include a heavy reliance on
samples, drum machines (primarily James Borwn's Funky Drummer breakbeat),
electronics, AND an equal amount of melody. I did NOT say, that both genres sounded
identical, only that they shared immense structural similarities.
>It is, in fact, so insipid that I have consciously imposed a
>limit on the amount of energy am I allowed to expend indulging your
>fifteen minutes of fame.
Druid
If only you applied this time limit to all of your on-line activities.
12GP
"It's not you, it's me...I no longer love you."