[LH] holy frackin heck
Love Hounds
NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Know
=end quoted
Surely this is a sign of a new work by Kate being released on the horizon?
d~
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Don Williams
2010/12/4 Mikael Lännqvist <trill...@bredband.net>:
> With all the anti-vax bullshit Huffington Post has put out,
> it's amazing that reasonable people would quote them on anything.
gaffa
LoveHounds
got excited by their interpretation.
Not as world shaking, but still goes a long way towards convincing
scientists that they should revisit their thinking regarding where
life may or may not be able to exist.
Sent from my iPhone
Don Williams
Mikael Lännqvist
>Not as world shaking, but still goes a long way towards convincing
>scientists that they should revisit their thinking regarding where
>life may or may not be able to exist.
Exactly.
Bryan Dongray
But what does Don know about politics to judge them?
Bryan
On 12/04/2010 09:18 AM, Don Williams wrote:
> Protip: HuffPo knows as much about politics as it does about science.
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:35 AM, LoveHounds <kate...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> My bad. HuffPo had a leak in advance of the press conference and I got
>> excited by their interpretation.
>>
>> http://nyti.ms/fxcWfN
>>
>> Not as world shaking, but still goes a long way towards convincing
>> scientists that they should revisit their thinking regarding where life may
>> or may not be able to exist.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> They don't, Mikael.
>>>
>>> 2010/12/4 Mikael Lännqvist <trill...@bredband.net>:
>>>>
>>>> With all the anti-vax bullshit Huffington Post has put out,
>>>> it's amazing that reasonable people would quote them on anything.
>>>
>>> gaffa
>>>
Bryan Dongray
Have you actually seen any evidence it works?
Unfortunately there is a growing mountain of evidence it doesn't.
What does work with it, is it's a great money maker for those who
make the chemicals, and the government propaganda pushed out that
you should have it which keeps the sheeple thinking they're safe!
Bryan
On 12/04/2010 01:27 AM, Mikael Lännqvist wrote:
> d~ wrote:
>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/02/nasa-new-life-arsenic-bacteria_n_791094.html
>>
>>
>>
>> NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To
>> What We Know
>>
>>
>> =end quoted
>>
>> Surely this is a sign of a new work by Kate being released on the
>> horizon?
>
> As usual, reporters know jack shit about what they are reporting.
>
> With all the anti-vax bullshit Huffington Post has put out,
> it's amazing that reasonable people would quote them on anything.
>
>
> (To bypass spam filter include wine or gaffa in message body)
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Music is like vintage wine. It keeps getting better over the years,
> if those who made it knew how to make it right...
> __________________________________________________Mikael_Lännqvist_
yellowmatter
On 2010-12-04, at 12:18 PM, Don Williams wrote:
> Protip: HuffPo knows as much about politics as it does about science.
Arianna Huffington is a very loveable person, but her journalistic endeavours are not.
yellowmatter
On 2010-12-04, at 3:08 PM, Bryan Dongray wrote:
> Why do you believe the vax myth?
> Have you actually seen any evidence it works?
> Unfortunately there is a growing mountain of evidence it doesn't.
>
> What does work with it, is it's a great money maker for those who
> make the chemicals, and the government propaganda pushed out that
> you should have it which keeps the sheeple thinking they're safe!
>
> Bryan
Wake up sheeple! Your babies are getting autism from bad vaccinations.
F'ing big pharma. Always in it for the money.
Don Williams
Don Williams
polio, chicken pox, diptheria and measles.
Dumb sheeple don't know how good they had it when their children could
contract all those diseases.
Shepherd Bryan, please lead us to the promised land!
Mikael Lännqvist
>On 2010-12-04, at 3:08 PM, Bryan Dongray wrote:
>
> > Why do you believe the vax myth?
> > Have you actually seen any evidence it works?
> > Unfortunately there is a growing mountain of evidence it doesn't.
> >
> > What does work with it, is it's a great money maker for those who
> > make the chemicals, and the government propaganda pushed out that
> > you should have it which keeps the sheeple thinking they're safe!
> >
> > Bryan
>
>Wake up sheeple! Your babies are getting autism from bad vaccinations.
>F'ing big pharma. Always in it for the money.
LMFAO, you guys are hilarious!
Gimmie more...
_____________________________________________________________________________
"The next time Micro$oft makes a product that doesn't suck,
it'll be a vacuum-cleaner." (Source: random USEnet signature)
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bryan Dongray
feel bad for their gullibility and just making it worse for themselves
and worse for their children.
Feel free to go and check, and you'll see that diseases were in decline
before the vaccinations came along, this is attributed with healthier
living, better diets, and simple hygiene. Surprisingly some of the
vaccines caused an INCREASE of what was trying to be cured!
Also search how many people STILL get the disease they are injected against,
or have serious problems with "side effects".
A couple of quotes from Dr. J. Anthony Morris
(formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin)
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children
does more harm than good."
"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is
effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.
The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless,
but they go on selling them anyway."
As from: http://vaclib.org/basic/quotes.htm
which has quotes from many sources (many medical sources and scientific
research) about the real effects of vaccinations.
[warning to those who wish to believe in vaccinations, don't go there]
While I do not know if autism and vaccinations are related, it's worth
noting that comparing children who get vaccinations vs those who do not
and counting those with autism, it was shown to occur 6,000% more in
vaccinated children. But the government and/or big pharma tell us it's
nothing to worry about and it's unrelated.
How about the New Zealand Immunisation Awareness Society who decided to
survey their members, and when comparing vaccinated vs non-vaccinated
children, found:
Asthma: 15% vs 3.3%
Allergies: 32% vs 13%
Ear infections: 20% vs 6.6%
Near-miss cot deaths: 6.8% vs 1.7%
Hyperactivity: 7.5% vs 0.8%
but I guess these increases to a child when vaccinated are acceptable
side effects to them?
Actually, I am wrong. Parents have no idea about this (or other)
studies so just don't know this, they are just not informed when
they let vaccinations get given.
But everyone can feel free to believe government (who get paid by Big Pharma)
telling you what to believe and what to do. I prefer the studies on the
results of the actual numbers SINCE the times that we've been giving people
injections (and not from the scientists paid for by big pharma and governments).
As I heard: consulting a butcher on the value of vegetarianism is akin to
consulting a doctor on the value of vaccination!
On 12/04/2010 02:10 PM, Don Williams wrote:
> We all miss the days of mumps, whooping cough, smallpox, rubella
> polio, chicken pox, diptheria and measles.
>
> Dumb sheeple don't know how good they had it when their children could
> contract all those diseases.
>
> Shepherd Bryan, please lead us to the promised land!
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:19 PM, yellowmatter <yellow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Wake up sheeple! Your babies are getting autism from bad vaccinations.
>> F'ing big pharma. Always in it for the money.
Also I saw...
On 12/04/2010 02:04 PM, Don Williams wrote:
> It's a Zionist plot, isn't it, Bryan?
Sounds like you're being racist again Don. Please don't.
Bryan.
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
Douglas Alan
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lunatic.
>
My feelings exactly! Just like those guys who deny global warming.
|>ouglas
Don Williams
have wet your pants at the latest anti-Jew belch Helen Thomas.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
> On 12/04/2010 02:04 PM, Don Williams wrote:
>> It's a Zionist plot, isn't it, Bryan?
>
> Sounds like you're being racist again Don. Please don't.
--
Don Williams
Vaccinations were based on scientific observation and repeatable
experiments, not computer simulations that no one is allowed to check
for programming errors.
When global warming gets the same sort of rigorous scientific
treatment that vaccines have rightfully gotten, get back to me.
Don
Douglas Alan
> Vaccinations were based on scientific observation and repeatable
> experiments,
>
Hardly. Vaccination evidence is based mostly on theory and statistics, not
on repeatable experiments. Reputable scientists don't infect people with
smallpox or even the measles, just to see if their treatment works.
When global warming gets the same sort of rigorous scientific treatment that
> vaccines have rightfully gotten, get back to me.
Get back to me when the scientific community agrees with you. In the
meantime, perhaps you can gather up a few spare Earths and experiment with
the lives of the billions of people living on them. Once you've proved that
with experimentation that none of them died due to climate change over a
several hundred year period of industrialization, I'll wholeheartedly
endorse a position of less caution.
Don Williams
Regarding vaccinnes, they do zillions of experiments. Here's just one
I quickly found:
http://www.nytimes.com/1986/12/17/us/aids-immunization-tested-on-humans.html
And another:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722110850.htm
Doug, please don't blow your credibility. I need it when fighting
doofuses like Bryan.
Don
Bryan Dongray
And your response is to name call.
You use the tired old "Ad Hominem" method of argument, which usually
means you've no logical basis for your thoughts, you believe what you
believe because you've been told to believe it. Even if it's a lie,
you'll name call because that proves you're right.
That's why I say "sheeple".
Even though I quoted ACTUAL people who've worked and some are the heads in
the field of Big Pharma and/or Government or were at the leading medical
institutions, doctors themselves, who've come out and say it's actually a
crock, a scam, and is more harmful, you still do not want to believe it.
You want to believe the people who make money from telling you vaccines
work, and name call as that proves it's true.
You call me a lunatic, sorry but it takes intelligence to look beyond your
own TV and just question what they've been telling you:
Simply "Why do you believe what you believe?"
OK, maybe "ostrich" would be better?
Bryan
PS On global warming. It is happening. I don't think anyone denies that?
OK some do, but they need to look further than how it was a cold winter.
The cause of it is the question. So with astronomers (who see many planets
currently warming, just as the Earth is, and know about the Suns long cycle
of warming and cooling) and with historians citing how the past thousand years
has shown temperature increases and decreases by tens of degrees, and also
the Southern hemisphere folks totally disagree with any warming statistics.
BUT they are disagreeing with weathermen who look to numbers recorded only
a little over 100 years old, instead of what people who about over the
centuries wrote. Actually that's unfair, as hundreds of climatologists
also are finally managing to get their message out saying the government
is distorting their findings - to its own ends.
LOL - reminds me of Bush lying about what the IAEA said, and going to war
over his imaginary WMD, but people believed him. Not me, but you claim I'm
the lunatic, yet I'm the one who's shown right (because I'm not narrowminded
and I look further than my TV screen).
So you guys listen to your governments who come up with a new way to tax you,
which simply goes to big businesses.
Again... I see people unwilling to just ask why they believe what they
believe or have an open mind. But no... they'd rather be ostriches or
sheep. Believing what you believe because you're told what is truth
in the mainstream media.
However, the idea of scaring people (and taxing them) is an EXCELLENT way
to get the sheeple to change their ways, so I approve of fooling them with
believing that human behavior is making a significant difference to the
climate. We all should know oil and gas supplies will run out (and there's
a debate about when, but it's still WHEN), so scaring people into wanting
to convert to forms of renewable energies is great, and getting people to
seriously believe in the ability of electricity to drive our cars, as
electricity can be created from many renewable sources. As well as being a
sensible way forward, it's also nice to not have to breathe pollution.
On 12/06/2010 05:17 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Re vaccination denial:
>
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com
> <mailto:donwi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Lunatic.
>
>
> My feelings exactly! Just like those guys who deny global warming.
>
> |>ouglas
--
Bryan Dongray
I thought we already proved you were the racist!
Again.. you don't like the truth.
On 12/06/2010 05:43 PM, Don Williams wrote:
> LOL...coming from Bryan, who claims the Jews run the media. You must
> have wet your pants at the latest anti-Jew belch Helen Thomas.
>
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
>> On 12/04/2010 02:04 PM, Don Williams wrote:
>>> It's a Zionist plot, isn't it, Bryan?
>>
>> Sounds like you're being racist again Don. Please don't.
--
Douglas Alan
> They sky is falling, claims Chicken Little.
>
First you claim that scientists know what they are doing, and then you claim
that they don't. Make up your mind before you cross the street.
On the other hand, my position is clear.
> Regarding vaccinnes, they do zillions of experiments. Here's just one
> I quickly found:
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/1986/12/17/us/aids-immunization-tested-on-humans.html
This experiment only aims to show that the drug in question stimulates the
body's immune system to produce white blood cells. That in no way can prove
that it prevents AIDS.
And another:
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722110850.htm
This is a mouse experiment. That in no way can prove that it will prevent
malaria in humans. Or even be safe in humans.
Doug, please don't blow your credibility.
You don't really understand credibility, Don.
Btw, there are plenty of experiments that *prove *that CO2 traps infrared
light. That's much stronger evidence than merely increasing the number of
white cells would be in their respective cases.
Don Williams
Bryan Dongray
> Dec 6, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com
> <mailto:donwi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Vaccinations were based on scientific observation and repeatable
> experiments,
>
>
> Hardly. Vaccination evidence is based mostly on theory and statistics,
> not on repeatable experiments. Reputable scientists don't infect people
> with smallpox or even the measles, just to see if their treatment works.
Actually they have done, they did it to African Americans in the military,
and did it on people in Guatemala.
Their results found the vaccines didn't work, and these people died
horrible deaths.
As I said in my previous posting, the real scientific review are showing
that vaccines cause more risk than benefit, often being the cause of the
disease. The economic facts are that vaccines make money for the doctors
and the pharmaceutical companies, so they'll continue to promote them,
except many doctors refuse to vaccinate their own children.
Interesting, eh?
> When global warming gets the same sort of rigorous
> scientific treatment that vaccines have rightfully gotten, get back
> to me.
>
> Get back to me when the scientific community agrees with you.
The scientific community does not agree with itself, there are serious
arguments about all this, and theories that get disproved all the time.
So much so that MORE and more climatologists are switching to the idea
that global warming isn't due to industrialization, and Al Gore is being
an idiot (more than he was as a politician).
> Once you've
> proved that with experimentation that none of them died due to climate
> change over a several hundred year period of industrialization, I'll
> wholeheartedly endorse a position of less caution.
Look to a longer timescale, just because a few weathermen are narrowminded
but also paid by the government to distort the figures, doesn't make it true.
Bryan
Douglas Alan
> MORE and more climatologists are switching to the idea
> that global warming isn't due to industrialization, and Al Gore is being
> an idiot (more than he was as a politician).
>
Well, there you go--you and Don both agree on *something*, even if it's
nonsensical, so you two can now kiss and make up!
|>ouglas
Don Williams
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dec 6, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
>>
>> MORE and more climatologists are switching to the idea
>> that global warming isn't due to industrialization, and Al Gore is being
>> an idiot (more than he was as a politician).
>
> Well, there you go--you and Don both agree on something, even if it's
Don Williams
you're talking about is not some difficult task.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dec 6, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
>>
>> MORE and more climatologists are switching to the idea
>> that global warming isn't due to industrialization, and Al Gore is being
>> an idiot (more than he was as a politician).
>
> Well, there you go--you and Don both agree on something, even if it's
Bry
Lunatic.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 12/04/2010 02:04 PM, Don Williams wrote:
>> It's a Zionist plot, isn't it, Bryan?
>
> Sounds like you're being racist again Don. Please don't.
>
> Bryan.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this group or for more info about it, see
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Mikael Lännqvist
>On 12/04/2010 02:04 PM, Don Williams wrote:
> > It's a Zionist plot, isn't it, Bryan?
>
>Sounds like you're being racist again Don.
To me it sounds like Don's making fun of conspiracy theorists,
rather than being racist.
(To bypass spam filter include wine or gaffa in message body)
___________________________________________________________________
Music is like vintage wine. It keeps getting better over the years,
if those who made it knew how to make it right...
__________________________________________________Mikael_Lännqvist_
Don Williams
Jews run the media.
2010/12/7 Mikael Lännqvist <trill...@bredband.net>:
Douglas Alan
> Actually, Mikael, I'm making fun of Bryan who claimed to me that the
> Jews run the media.
>
Well, I sure hope they do. Jews are much smarter than other people.
|>ouglas
Don Williams
Mikael Lännqvist
>Actually, Mikael, I'm making fun of Bryan who claimed to me that the
>Jews run the media.
Yeah, but if it's a Zionist Plot, then it's a conspiracy, isn't it?
I mean, regardless if the Jews run the media or not...
(though it would be easier if they did run the media, I suppose)
Just because Bryan found a doctor(?) who thinks that vaccines
do more harm than good, doesn't make it so.
Dissenting opinions among scientists could be found in _any_
dicipline if you look long and far enough.
There's a PhD in biochemistry convinced that life on earth
was Intelligently Designed, and not evolved. On the other hand,
he also also stated on record that he thinks astrology qualifies
as science...
_____________________________________________________________________
The idea that (technology) takes away mystery or awe or wonder in
nature is wrong. It's quite the opposite. It's much more wonderful to
know what something's really like than to sit there and just simply,
in ignorance, say, 'Oooh, isn't it wonderful?'
- Richard Feynman
Douglas Alan
|>ouglas
Bryan Dongray
government departments, people who used to work in pharmaceutical companies,
and people who actually do the research. Not your doctor who gets paid to
give you injections and makes money off you being sick, nor the PR department
of Big Pharma, and not the government.
Maybe you'd believe it, if it came via Wikileaks, but they seem to specialize
in bring the hidden truths of war (which I think is stupid, war is not nice,
don't we know this already).
It's quite sad you fight for something you've never been shown is true,
yet there is plenty of evidence it's a scam, and the risks outweigh
the benefits.
Just because Mikael continues to not look into the truth behind vaccines,
doesn't make them work any better, and not have deadly side effects!
Here's one of those doctors on the topic of vaccines and risk:
"This forced me to look into the question of vaccination further,
and the further I looked the more shocked I became. I found that the whole
vaccine business was indeed a gigantic hoax. Most doctors are convinced
that they are useful, but if you look at the proper statistics and study
the instances of these diseases you will realise that this is not so. ...
My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business [medicine]
is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organisation and the
unofficial policy of the 'Save the Children's Fund' and ... [other vaccine
promoting] organisations is one of murder and genocide. . . . I cannot see
any other possible explanation. . . . You cannot immunise sick children,
malnourished children, and expect to get away with it. You'll kill far
more children than would have died from natural infection." --Dr Kalokerinos MD
and another on vaccinations NOT being the cause of reduce in diseases:
"Even the WHO (World Health Organisation) has admitted, disease and mortality
rates in Third World countries have no direct correlation with immunisation
procedures or medical treatment, but they are closely related to the standard
of hygiene and diet. A 1973 issue of Scientific American revealed the same
finding : that 'over 90% of all contagious disease was eliminated by vastly
improved water systems, sanitation, living conditions and transportation of food.'
Mass vaccinations did not appear on the scene until a century after the decline
in infectious diseases started (1850-1940), but inoculations were, and still
are given full credit." --Susan DeSimone
On 12/07/2010 10:40 AM, Mikael Lännqvist wrote:
> Don Williams wrote:
>> Actually, Mikael, I'm making fun of Bryan who claimed to me that the
>> Jews run the media.
>
> Yeah, but if it's a Zionist Plot, then it's a conspiracy, isn't it?
> I mean, regardless if the Jews run the media or not...
> (though it would be easier if they did run the media, I suppose)
>
> Just because Bryan found a doctor(?) who thinks that vaccines
> do more harm than good, doesn't make it so.
> Dissenting opinions among scientists could be found in _any_
> dicipline if you look long and far enough.
> There's a PhD in biochemistry convinced that life on earth
> was Intelligently Designed, and not evolved. On the other hand,
> he also also stated on record that he thinks astrology qualifies
> as science...
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> The idea that (technology) takes away mystery or awe or wonder in nature
> is wrong. It's quite the opposite. It's much more wonderful to know what
> something's really like than to sit there and just simply, in ignorance,
> say, 'Oooh, isn't it wonderful?'
>
> - Richard Feynman
>
>
--
Don Williams
are always perpetuating terrorist attacks against Americans.
I hate that!
pDale
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0208/opinions-vaccine-flu-h1n1-health-on-my-mind.html
Because of [the deniers'] efforts, rubella, whooping cough, measles and
meningitis are all on the rise in a country that spends 16% of its GDP on
health care. In 2004 there were 26,000 reported cases of whooping cough in
the U.S., up from only 1,000 in 1976.
Discussion of your "reduced rates before vaccines":
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6222439
--
pDale Campbell
Don Williams
pDale
Greed<http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/724-no-vaccine-against-greed.html>
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/724-no-vaccine-against-greed.html
...He also claims that there are no studies proving that vaccinated kids are
healthier than non-vaccinated kids. Oh really? Two things, first: Google is
your friend<http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=vaccination+study+efficacy&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1B5_____enUS338US338&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart>
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=vaccination+study+efficacy&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1B5_____enUS338US338&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart
Second:
herd immunity is keeping your kids safe from diseases like small pox and
polio. That's right Dr. Rohlfsen: the fact that other people do the
responsible thing and vaccinate their kids is keeping your kids safe.
Ironically, Rohlfsen tosses out a bit about the use of ear tubes in children
not being recommended by the "American Pediatric guidelines." Perhaps his
referring to this article about the overuse of ear
tubes<http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/702400> in
kids. Do you know what else "American Pediatric guidleines" say? VACCINATE
YOUR KIDS.
Interesting description of a college course on distinguishing science from
pseudoscience:
http://casa.colorado.edu/~dduncan/pseudoscience/
<http://casa.colorado.edu/~dduncan/pseudoscience/>
yellowmatter
On 2010-12-07, at 10:06 PM, pDale wrote:
> Get Vaccinated http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0208/opinions-vaccine-flu-h1n1-health-on-my-mind.html
> Because of [the deniers'] efforts, rubella, whooping cough, measles and meningitis are all on the rise in a country that spends 16% of its GDP on health care. In 2004 there were 26,000 reported cases of whooping cough in the U.S., up from only 1,000 in 1976.
The same thing is happening in Canada, Great Britain, and Australia.
...Jim
Douglas Alan
> That's true. Jews (and their computer-hacking Amish co-conspirators)
> are always perpetuating terrorist attacks against Americans.
>
Yeah, not to mention that *all* of those billion Muslims are also plotting
terrorist attacks against us. There's a Final Solution for that!
Don Williams
million people--nothing to worry about.
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dec 7, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's true. Jews (and their computer-hacking Amish co-conspirators)
>> are always perpetuating terrorist attacks against Americans.
>
> Yeah, not to mention that all of those billion Muslims are also plotting
Douglas Alan
> Not just ONE doctor, but MANY, includes heads of medicines, heads of
> government departments, people who used to work in pharmaceutical
> companies,
> and people who actually do the research.
>
What's even more interesting that many heads of medicines, heads of
government departments, and people who use to work in pharmaceutical
companies beat their wives. This is clear evidence that it's time for *
everyone* to start beating their wives!
|>ouglas
Douglas Alan
> Only about 10% of Muslims support terrorism. That's only about 100
> million people--nothing to worry about.
>
I reject your claim that 90% of Muslims are peace-loving individuals! They
are all terrorist swine. Catholics too. Those Catholic bastards have killed
*even* more people in Northern Ireland than Muslims killed in the US!
Don Williams
picker of statistics!
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Those Catholic bastards have killed even more people in Northern Ireland
> than Muslims killed in the US!
--
Douglas Alan
Northern Ireland, those @#$!ing Catholics are far worse!
Don Williams
that God was instructing them to kill on his behalf. It was just a
convenient way to choose up sides to fight.
Bryan Dongray
"... even though the risk from vaccines is a millionfold less than the
risk from the diseases they prevent."
A millionfold - LOL - what was the source for that statistic?
His ass no doubt.
Also notice the author gets his income from biotech companies, that
should raise a flag when someone is giving their opinion about vaccines.
But on his "millionfold" statistic, studies show the risks from vaccines
is much much higher than 1 in 1,000,000.
For example:
One study (with RRV-TV vaccine) Kaiser Permanente (a Californian based
medical organization) found the risk was 314 per 100,000 (or 1 in 318) that
patients had an adverse reaction with intussusception (bowel obstruction).
Minnesota state found it was 292 per 100,000 (or 1 in 342).
So we should have confidence that as these two places agree, it's a little
less than 1 in 300.
ie nowhere near "a millionfold".
What *is* interesting is that the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System
a USA vaccine safety surveillance program co-sponsored by the CDC and FDA)
claimed the RRV-TV vaccine had a risk of 0.6 per 100,000.
ie their claim is that it's 500 times less risky.
Discrepancies like that should be a cause for doubt, and should raise a flag.
FYI: the risk of catching the illness RRT-TV supposedly prevents (ie diarrhea
caused by rotavirusis) changes from country to country, but it is 1 in 600
in poor countries, up to 1 in 2200 in richer developed countries.
So compared with a risk of 1 in 300 of blocked bowel (which has a high chance
of death, especially in poorer countries where access to medical facilities
is more difficult), it is obvious that this vaccine is more risky!
But also... what are the other side effects of this vaccine?
That needs to be added into the risk of the vaccine too!
On another vaccine:
The USA Association of American Physicians and Surgeons said that children
younger than 14 are three times more likely to be killed or seriously injured
by Hepatitis 'B' vaccine than to catch the disease.
Or this observation about the rise in polio:
"It is officially admitted that all cases of polio in the US, since
the introduction of the vaccine, are caused by the vaccine.
The same has been seen in Australia and other countries like England.
So the occurrence of the same phenomenon all around the world would
be asking too much of coincidence." -- Dr Viera Scheibner.
So after reading that quote about polio, I'd like to hear the correlation
of the numbers of those with the diseases (rubella, whooping cough, measles
and meningitis) to those who had vaccinations to supposedly prevent them from
these diseases. I hear it's quite high, ie we're GIVING the children the
disease FROM the vaccine!
But that's ok... as doctors make money from treating sick people, and more
pharmaceuticals need to be administered to cure the adverse effects, so
making yet more money for Big Pharma!
But again, what OTHER issues did the children who had the vaccines get
vs those who didn't get vaccinated (eg as I previously posted with the
New Zealand study).
It's becoming obvious that vaccines are causing more problems (including
the disease itself) than they're curing, and the drop in various diseases
is simply from our improvement in diet, cleaner water, and better hygiene.
"The decline in infectious diseases in developed countries had nothing to
do with vaccinations, but with the decline in poverty and hunger." --Dr. Buchwald, M.D.
Lastly, I see this author in Forbes is ranting about H1N1 last January, prior
to the discovery that the severity of the H1N1 outbreak was deliberately
exaggerated by pharmaceutical companies (that stood to make billions
of dollars from a worldwide scare).
And it's not me saying this but (top of my Google search) the Chairman
of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe Health Committee.
Maybe you folks missed that news, that the H1N1 scare was a scam?
But it seems you folks are fighting to go along with the vaccination scam,
instead of reading actual studies on the effects of vaccines, or reading
testimonies and quotes from people who know more than you or I, that it
is a scam, and you go along with what they tell you!
Bryan
On 12/07/2010 07:35 PM, yellowmatter wrote:
> On 2010-12-07, at 10:06 PM, pDale wrote:
>> Get
>> Vaccinated http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0208/opinions-vaccine-flu-h1n1-health-on-my-mind.html
>>
>> Because of [the deniers'] efforts, rubella, whooping cough, measles
>> and meningitis are all on the rise in a country that spends 16% of its
>> GDP on health care. In 2004 there were 26,000 reported cases of
>> whooping cough in the U.S., up from only 1,000 in 1976.
>
> The same thing is happening in Canada, Great Britain, and Australia.
> ...Jim
--
Douglas Alan
> But it seems you folks are fighting to go along with the vaccination scam,
> instead of reading actual studies on the effects of vaccines, or reading
> testimonies and quotes from people who know more than you or I, that it
> is a scam, and you go along with what they tell you!
>
Boy, Bryan, you sound just like Don on the issue of global warming, and
other people I know who deny evolution or who are sure that the government
is covering up alien abduction anal probing.
The fact of the matter, as you state, is that neither you nor I are expects
on the matter. Nor is Don. The *VAST *majority of the experts on the
subject, however, disagree with you and the people you cite. If one wants to
decide rationally by actually listening and reading the opinions of
scientists, as you say should be done, one is not going to conclude that
vaccinations are a scam. In fact, quite to the contrary. Instead, one will
be quite happy that they were given a life where they don't have to worry
about dying of smallpox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Child_with_Smallpox_Bangladesh.jpg
Not only that, but your argument is absurd on the face of it. When I was a
kid, *everybody had chickenpox sometime during their childhood. Now, hardly
anyone who has been vaccinated gets it.*
*
*
*Or here's the chart of measles cases in the US over time:*
*Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png 796×500
pixels<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png>
*
*
*
*You don't need fancy scientists to tell you what you can see just by
opening your eyes.*
|>ouglas
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
> But it seems you folks are fighting to go along with the vaccination scam,
> instead of reading actual studies on the effects of vaccines, or reading
> testimonies and quotes from people who know more than you or I, that it
> is a scam, and you go along with what they tell you!
>
> Bryan
>
> On 12/07/2010 07:35 PM, yellowmatter wrote:
>> On 2010-12-07, at 10:06 PM, pDale wrote:
>>> Get
>>> Vaccinated http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0208/opinions-vaccine-flu-h1n1-health-on-my-mind.html
>>>
>>> Because of [the deniers'] efforts, rubella, whooping cough, measles
>>> and meningitis are all on the rise in a country that spends 16% of its
>>> GDP on health care. In 2004 there were 26,000 reported cases of
>>> whooping cough in the U.S., up from only 1,000 in 1976.
>>
>> The same thing is happening in Canada, Great Britain, and Australia.
>> ...Jim
>
Douglas Alan
> tl;dr
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Don, U R 1 1337 h4x0r!
|>ouglas
Douglas Alan
> Doug, while it was the Catholics vs. the Protestants, neither claimed
> that God was instructing them to kill on his behalf. It was just a
> convenient way to choose up sides to fight.
>
I see. It's really just the drunken Irish swine who are more terrorist,
pound-for-pound, than the Muslims.
I'm still not buying, however, that Catholics in general get a
get-out-of-jail-free card. I bet that at least 10% of them are Irish
sympathizers.
|>ouglas
Don Williams
Bryan Dongray
On Smallpox: http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm
(scroll down to see the graph, the drop after the spike
was because people en masse refused to take vaccine)
Then notice how the death rate continues to drop once people
again stop having the vaccine!
On other vaccines: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQK_qhOdUcI
But doctors (or experts as you would call them) claim
vaccines do not cause problems. Yeah right... they say that
because they're making money from it, and to speak out would
get them kicked out of their profession.
As you can easily find, there are MANY stories like that video.
But you might say "that's just a small problem"?
The stats (as I posted previously) show it's not a just small
problem. But the government and medical industry play down
and try very hard to hide the risks, including distorting
(ie lying about) the numbers (see my previous post paragraphs
about RRT-TV) by (in that case) a factor of 500!
Trouble is... these "VAST majority of experts" you talk about
are in the system that pays them to keep the status quo.
Trusting an expert who has financial incentive with how many
people believe his story, is very narrowminded, and gullible.
It's like trusting the salesmen of snakeoil.
As I said, doctors frequently do not vaccination their children,
they might not open their mouths to say there's something wrong
and they might give vaccines to their patients, they may even
say vaccines are wonderful, but their actions speak volumes.
But many experts write things like:
"I was working in one of the oldest lung illness treatment
centres in Germany, and just by chance, I looked at the files
of those people who had fallen ill during the first German
epidemic of smallpox, in 1947...We had always been told that
the smallpox vaccination would protect against smallpox.
And now I could verify, thanks to the files and papers,
that all of those who had fallen ill had been vaccinated."
"The vaccinations are not working, and they are dangerous.
We should be working with nature." --- Lendon H.Smith, M.D.
"For a paediatrician to attack what has become the 'bread and butter'
of paediatric practice is equivalent to a priest denying the
infallibility of the pope." - Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
"The Philippines experienced their worst smallpox epidemic
ever after 8 million people received vaccine doses; the
death rate quadrupled as a result." -- Physician William Howard Hay
"It is pathetic and ludicrous to say we ever vanquished
smallpox with vaccines, when only 10% of the population
was ever vaccinated." - Dr. Glen Dettman.
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation
of children does more harm than good." - Dr. J. Anthony Morris
(formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer of the FDA)
So *I*m the one denying things?
I could list hundreds of quotes from hundreds of "experts"
who all say the same thing.
But you're happy to believe the people who are paid by the very
thing they are promoted... Oh well, apparently I'm the lunatic!
Bryan
On 12/08/2010 07:29 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com
> <mailto:b...@dongrays.com>> wrote:
>
> But it seems you folks are fighting to go along with the vaccination
> scam,
> instead of reading actual studies on the effects of vaccines, or reading
> testimonies and quotes from people who know more than you or I, that it
> is a scam, and you go along with what they tell you!
>
>
> Boy, Bryan, you sound just like Don on the issue of global warming, and
> other people I know who deny evolution or who are sure that the
> government is covering up alien abduction anal probing.
>
> The fact of the matter, as you state, is that neither you nor I are
> expects on the matter. Nor is Don. The *VAST/ /*majority of the experts
> on the subject, however, disagree with you and the people you cite. If
> one wants to decide rationally by actually listening and reading the
> opinions of scientists, as you say should be done, one is not going to
> conclude that vaccinations are a scam. In fact, quite to the contrary.
> Instead, one will be quite happy that they were given a life where they
> don't have to worry about dying of smallpox.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Child_with_Smallpox_Bangladesh.jpg
>
>
> Not only that, but your argument is absurd on the face of it. When I was
> a kid, */everybody had chickenpox sometime during their childhood. Now,
> hardly anyone who has been vaccinated gets it./*
> */
> /*
> */Or here's the chart of measles cases in the US over time:/*
>
> */Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png 796×500 pixels
> <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png>/*
> */
> /*
>
> */You don't need fancy scientists to tell you what you can see just by
> opening your eyes./*
Don Williams
Douglas Alan
> |>ouglas,
>
> On Smallpox: http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm
> (scroll down to see the graph, the drop after the spike
> was because people en masse refused to take vaccine)
> Then notice how the death rate continues to drop once people
> again stop having the vaccine!
>
Bryan, everything you are writing on this topic is wholly without merit, and
in fact highly dangerous. 300 million people died in the 20th century alone
due to smallpox. That's 50 Haulocausts, and yet if you had your way, you
would re-create this.
Your claims and the claims that you post are not only wrong, they are *
absurd. The people you cite are quacks. Anyone who doesn't want to buy into
quackery can see this from their very own experience. E.g., when I was a
kid, everyone was vaccinated for smallpox and yet no one caught it. If the
smallpox vaccine caused smallpox, clearly that would not be the case. When I
was a kid, no one was vaccinated for chickenpox and everyone caught it. Now
most kids are vaccinated for chicken pox and none of them catch it.*
*
*
*You can argue that everyone would know that 2 + 2 really equals 5, if only
the mathematicians didn't have a vested interest in helping to keep the
corporate tax rate artificially low all you want, but anyone who can count
can see that that's not the case.*
Richard
Hugs
Chloe
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Alan
To: love-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [LH] holy frackin heck
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
|>ouglas,
On Smallpox: http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm
(scroll down to see the graph, the drop after the spike
was because people en masse refused to take vaccine)
Then notice how the death rate continues to drop once people
again stop having the vaccine!
Bryan, everything you are writing on this topic is wholly without merit, and in fact highly dangerous. 300 million people died in the 20th century alone due to smallpox. That's 50 Haulocausts, and yet if you had your way, you would re-create this.
Your claims and the claims that you post are not only wrong, they are absurd. The people you cite are quacks. Anyone who doesn't want to buy into quackery can see this from their very own experience. E.g., when I was a kid, everyone was vaccinated for smallpox and yet no one caught it. If the smallpox vaccine caused smallpox, clearly that would not be the case. When I was a kid, no one was vaccinated for chickenpox and everyone caught it. Now most kids are vaccinated for chicken pox and none of them catch it.
You can argue that everyone would know that 2 + 2 really equals 5, if only the mathematicians didn't have a vested interest in helping to keep the corporate tax rate artificially low all you want, but anyone who can count can see that that's not the case.
Yellowmatter
Don Williams
Bryan uses no less of a reference site that London77Truth.com. It
feeds into his anti-Jew viewpoint, so he believes anything they tell
him.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
>>
>> |>ouglas,
>>
>> On Smallpox: http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm
>> (scroll down to see the graph, the drop after the spike
>> was because people en masse refused to take vaccine)
>> Then notice how the death rate continues to drop once people
>> again stop having the vaccine!
>
> Bryan, everything you are writing on this topic is wholly without merit, and
> in fact highly dangerous. 300 million people died in the 20th century alone
> due to smallpox. That's 50 Haulocausts, and yet if you had your way, you
> would re-create this.
> Your claims and the claims that you post are not only wrong, they are
> absurd. The people you cite are quacks. Anyone who doesn't want to buy into
> quackery can see this from their very own experience. E.g., when I was a
> kid, everyone was vaccinated for smallpox and yet no one caught it. If the
> smallpox vaccine caused smallpox, clearly that would not be the case. When I
> was a kid, no one was vaccinated for chickenpox and everyone caught it. Now
> most kids are vaccinated for chicken pox and none of them catch it.
> You can argue that everyone would know that 2 + 2 really equals 5, if only
> the mathematicians didn't have a vested interest in helping to keep the
> corporate tax rate artificially low all you want, but anyone who can count
> can see that that's not the case.
Bryan Dongray
If you want to hate on the Jews Don, that's your own business, you don't have
to say it here, or try to claim others do that.
You'd have to be stupid to think that any pro-vaccine site would honestly
advertise that graph, so of course it's found on a site that is anti-vaccine.
But simply read up on how the smallpox death rate quadrupled in the Philippines
on the introduction of the vaccine.
I find it amusing that |>oug said 2+2=5 since it's the vaccine story that
does NOT add up (ie 2+2=3), anyone who can count can see that that's the
case (to use your words).
The danger (as you mentioned that word) is not with me reporting what I
have found out from medical studies, but with vaccines (a documented fact).
If you actually read my posts, you can see it is well known and studied by
reputable places that the risks are real and are played down by the
government (see my posting abotu RRT-TV) and by people who make money off
keeping the public ignorant of these risks.
Why does the government lie?
My guess in this case is it's because they are paid off by Big Pharma, and
people who leave those systems and now not trapped by them, are reporting
that it's a scam.
|>oug, I wonder why you make up the statistic "none of them catch chickenpox"?
Have you done a scientific study on the people who have negative reactions
to the Varicella vaccine? And found the risks are zero?
No you have not.
But medical institutions have done similar studies and found that there are
negative reactions to this vaccine, the argument is how risky is each vaccine,
and time after time the official statement from the government or Big Pharma
is FAR LOWER than the studies done in the real world.
eg 500x more risky in the case of RRT-TV (see previous post).
I looked up the risks of Varicella and found:
"Anyone who has had chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine as a child is at
risk for developing shingles later in life, and up to 20% do."
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/chicken_pox.html
So you have the vaccine and that gives you a 1 in 5 chance of getting shingles!
But wait... there's a vaccine for that too - wow - they get double income!
First they give you a shot that has risks, and then you need to have you
another shot (again with risks) later in life to prevent a possibility of
a problem with what they injected you with!
Reviewing another pro-Varicella vaccine site:
http://xnet.kp.org/newscenter/pressreleases/nat/2010/010410vaccinerefuser.html
They claim that it is 9 times (actually the medical study says 8.6, but that's
close to 9) more likely to catch chickenpox if the child does not have the vaccine.
That page also says prior to the vaccine, 4 million cases happened annually,
hospitalizing 10,000 (of which 100 died). ie a real problem for 1 in 400.
BUT vaccinated children will get chickenpox 9 times less, so they expect
there to be 450,000 cases annually (in vaccinated children), and 1100
hospitalizations. Yes this is better, but |>oug, your "none" is not a
very accurate statement.
The CDC lists various mild and serious issues with Varicella, but do not
list a percentage of getting such issues, just that's it's "rare".
But the CDC are already known to lie about how rare something is.
Maybe 1 in 400 is rare? If so, the risk of serious problem (such as seizures
which they classify as a moderate problem) is as great a problem as getting
the disease and being the unlucky 1 in 400 who gets hospitalized!
However, I am not really surprised people believe what they tell you, it's
a pretty convincing story, I believed it too, until I thought about why do I
believe what I believe and came across a mountain of evidence that effectively
said they were lying, ironically with proof from pro-vaccination studies!
I believe you are intelligent people, you have the ability to do that too.
Think about: Why do you believe what you're told?
Consider: Why do many respectable people have evidence to the contrary?
Consider: What do either side have to gain by lying?
You don't have to believe what I believe, but to call respectable doctors
quacks without evidence is a weak argument. Maybe you are echo'ing others
who calls these doctors quacks? Who are they? Oh... the ones who make money
off convincing you they're quacks. Right.....
But you have the right to believe lies. Maybe it makes you happier.
Bryan
Don Williams
thinks no one notices.
What a silly boy you are.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
> You can pull that graph from many sites, this one had a scale on both axes.
> If you want to hate on the Jews Don, that's your own business, you don't have
> to say it here, or try to claim others do that.
--
Douglas Alan
> "Anyone who has had chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine as a child is at
risk for developing shingles later in life, and up to 20% do."
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/chicken_pox.htm<http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/chicken_pox.html>
> So you have the vaccine and that gives you a 1 in 5 chance of getting
> shingles!
Bryan, all I can see is that you live on a completely different planet than
I do. On the planet that I live on, as a kid, *everyone* I ever knew,
including me, got chicken pox. Now, I don't know a single person who has
been vaccinated who has gotten chicken pox. (Not that it *never *happens,
but it's just relatively rare.)
It would indeed be a real tragedy if the chicken pox vaccine made one more
prone to shingles later in life. Except for *one* thing: it's *chicken
pox*that makes one prone to shingles because if you ever had chicken
pox (and
nearly everyone did) the chicken pox virus lives in your body forever,
waiting to come out again when you are old are grey.
Now it's true that the chicken pox vaccine may or may not have the same
effect re causing shingles later in live, since it is made from a weakened
form of the chicken pox virus, but we have no way of know if it does, since
the vaccine hasn't been around long enough for children to have been
vaccinated with it and then grown up to be old and grey. Hence your citation
is completely bogus since it is claiming something that is currently
unknown.
In any case, at *worst* one's choice is between (1) getting chicken pox and
being at risk for shingles and (2) *not *getting chicken pox and being at
risk for shingles. Which one would you pick? Well, if you're a masochist, I
suppose #1, but personally I'd chose #2.
And this is assuming the worst: I.e., that the chicken pox vaccine doesn't
also provide protection against shingles.
Really, Bryan, on this issue, you are just talking out of your butt,
spouting the worst sort of ludditism as "fact" and helping to spread and
dangerous and malicious meme. Why don't you leave that kind of things for
the Don's of the world. One of him is enough!
|>ouglas
P.S. Your chart that claims to prove the smallpox vaccine caused smallpox in
the Philipines is utterly ludicrous. We know as certainly as we know that
evolution is true and that gravity holds us on to the Earth that the
smallpox vaccine does not cause smallpox. THERE IS NO SMALLPOX IN A SMALLPOX
VACCINE.
(There was in the kind they used in ancient China, but it hasn't been that
way for more than 200 years. Apparently your expert quacks didn't get the
memo.)
P.P.S. If you want a health cause to bang the drum about, why not start a
campaign against something really dangerous, like peanut butter. The
naturally occurring mold-produced aflatoxin, turns out to be exceedingly
carcinogenic. Cancer is continuously increasing due to environment toxins.
That's where a rational person would be devoting their efforts.
Don Williams
falling in his world, and it's a sick, sad world he lives in.
I'm consistent. Vaccinations are fine. Don't worry about them. Global
Warming™ is a scam. Don't worry about it.
Bryan agrees with the frightened part of you...something to consider.
Don
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Really, Bryan, on this issue, you are just talking out of your butt,
> spouting the worst sort of ludditism as "fact" and helping to spread and
> dangerous and malicious meme. Why don't you leave that kind of things for
> the Don's of the world. One of him is enough!
--
LoveHounds
it?
Sent from my iPhone
LoveHounds
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Anyone who has had chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine as a child
> is at
> risk for developing shingles later in life, and up to 20% do."
> http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/chicken_pox.htm
>
> So you have the vaccine and that gives you a 1 in 5 chance of
> getting shingles!
>
> Bryan, all I can see is that you live on a completely different
> planet than I do. On the planet that I live on, as a kid, everyone I
> ever knew, including me, got chicken pox. Now, I don't know a single
> person who has been vaccinated who has gotten chicken pox. (Not that
> it never happens, but it's just relatively rare.)
>
> It would indeed be a real tragedy if the chicken pox vaccine made
> one more prone to shingles later in life. Except for one thing: it's
> chicken pox that makes one prone to shingles because if you ever had
> chicken pox (and nearly everyone did) the chicken pox virus lives in
> your body forever, waiting to come out again when you are old are
> grey.
>
> Now it's true that the chicken pox vaccine may or may not have the
> same effect re causing shingles later in live, since it is made from
> a weakened form of the chicken pox virus, but we have no way of know
> if it does, since the vaccine hasn't been around long enough for
> children to have been vaccinated with it and then grown up to be old
> and grey. Hence your citation is completely bogus since it is
> claiming something that is currently unknown.
>
> In any case, at worst one's choice is between (1) getting chicken
> pox and being at risk for shingles and (2) not getting chicken pox
> and being at risk for shingles. Which one would you pick? Well, if
> you're a masochist, I suppose #1, but personally I'd chose #2.
>
> And this is assuming the worst: I.e., that the chicken pox vaccine
> doesn't also provide protection against shingles.
>
> Really, Bryan, on this issue, you are just talking out of your butt,
> spouting the worst sort of ludditism as "fact" and helping to spread
> and dangerous and malicious meme. Why don't you leave that kind of
> things for the Don's of the world. One of him is enough!
>
> |>ouglas
>
> P.S. Your chart that claims to prove the smallpox vaccine caused
> smallpox in the Philipines is utterly ludicrous. We know as
> certainly as we know that evolution is true and that gravity holds
> us on to the Earth that the smallpox vaccine does not cause
> smallpox. THERE IS NO SMALLPOX IN A SMALLPOX VACCINE.
>
> (There was in the kind they used in ancient China, but it hasn't
> been that way for more than 200 years. Apparently your expert quacks
> didn't get the memo.)
>
> P.P.S. If you want a health cause to bang the drum about, why not
> start a campaign against something really dangerous, like peanut
> butter. The naturally occurring mold-produced aflatoxin, turns out
> to be exceedingly carcinogenic. Cancer is continuously increasing
> due to environment toxins. That's where a rational person would be
> devoting their efforts.
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2010, at 5:31 AM, LoveHounds <kate...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Oh crap. This isn't going to start a spinoff of Haulocaust denial, is it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
>> |>ouglas,
>>
>> On Smallpox: http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm
>> (scroll down to see the graph, the drop after the spike
>> was because people en masse refused to take vaccine)
>> Then notice how the death rate continues to drop once people
>> again stop having the vaccine!
>>
>> Bryan, everything you are writing on this topic is wholly without merit, and in fact highly dangerous. 300 million people died in the 20th century alone due to smallpox. That's 50 Haulocausts, and yet if you had your way, you would re-create this.
>>
>> Your claims and the claims that you post are not only wrong, they are absurd. The people you cite are quacks. Anyone who doesn't want to buy into quackery can see this from their very own experience. E.g., when I was a kid, everyone was vaccinated for smallpox and yet no one caught it. If the smallpox vaccine caused smallpox, clearly that would not be the case. When I was a kid, no one was vaccinated for chickenpox and everyone caught it. Now most kids are vaccinated for chicken pox and none of them catch it.
>>
>> You can argue that everyone would know that 2 + 2 really equals 5, if only the mathematicians didn't have a vested interest in helping to keep the corporate tax rate artificially low all you want, but anyone who can count can see that that's not the case.
>>
>> |>ouglas
>>
Douglas Alan
> Peanut butter is killing me?!?!?!
Don't worry, *everything* is killing you! Especially life.
|>ouglas
Douglas Alan
> I'm consistent. Vaccinations are fine. Don't worry about them. Global
> Warming™ is a scam. Don't worry about it.
>
No, you're not, Don. You chose to believe what you* want *to believe. I'm
consistent: I believe what science tells us.
|>ouglas
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2010, at 7:15 AM, Douglas Alan <do...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm consistent. Vaccinations are fine. Don't worry about them. Global
> Warming™ is a scam. Don't worry about it.
>
> No, you're not, Don. You chose to believe what you want to believe. I'm consistent: I believe what science tells us.
Douglas Alan
> Religious fanatics tend to not think for themselves.
Idiots tend to believe that they are smarter than the entire scientific
community.
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
Douglas Alan
> Skeptics are ridiculed...initially. And rarely thanked when proven right
> later. Such is life.
Bryan will be happy, no doubt, to hear that you will be thanking him later.
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
Douglas Alan
> LOL...Doug, skeptics challenge the unproven bought into by the gullible.
> Bryan denies reality.
That's what folks like you and Bryan always say.
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
pDale
--
--
pDale Campbell
Bry
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Alan
To: love-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [LH] holy frackin heck
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm consistent. Vaccinations are fine. Don't worry about them. Global
Warming™ is a scam. Don't worry about it.
No, you're not, Don. You chose to believe what you want to believe. I'm consistent: I believe what science tells us.
|>ouglas
--
To unsubscribe from this group or for more info about it, see
http://groups.google.com/group/love-hounds/web/faq
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Douglas Alan
> you must be jokeing, i look after 40 clients that hav had there lifes
> ruined with vaccinations given to them as babies or young children,
And what's your evidence that this damage was caused by a vaccination,
rather than by a genetic disorder, or being dropped on the head, or by a
high fever that might have been prevented by a vaccination, or by eating too
much carcinogenic peanut butter?
Bry
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Alan
To: love-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [LH] holy frackin heck
|>ouglas
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Douglas Alan
> *i hav plenty of evidence,its called paperwork on each client i
> hav,writtern by doctors of all degrees,*
>
Oh, a doctor said so. It *must* be true, then. My bad.
Mikael Lännqvist
>...read the facts of my child......bry
Ok, I think we found the springing point here.
Bryan Dongray
Bryan
On 12/10/2010 07:34 AM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Dec 10, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com <mailto:donwi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Skeptics are ridiculed...initially. And rarely thanked when proven right later. Such is life.
>
>
> Bryan will be happy, no doubt, to hear that you will be thanking him later.
>
> |>ouglas
--
Bryan Dongray
Another example of |>oug telling a lie (or promoting ones
put out by someone else).
Bryan
On 12/10/2010 09:35 AM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Dec 10, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com <mailto:donwi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> LOL...Doug, skeptics challenge the unproven bought into by the gullible. Bryan denies reality.
>
>
> That's what folks like you and Bryan always say.
>
Bryan Dongray
it was the best of my Google search, due to having axes.
Don, you must think Google is anti-semitic because they showed the site.
Is that why you use them?
Bryan
On 12/09/2010 06:45 PM, Don Williams wrote:
> LOL...Bryan links to an anti-Semitic site to prove his argument and
> thinks no one notices.
>
> What a silly boy you are.
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com> wrote:
>> You can pull that graph from many sites, this one had a scale on both axes.
>> If you want to hate on the Jews Don, that's your own business, you don't have
>> to say it here, or try to claim others do that.
--
Bryan Dongray
Bryan
On 12/10/2010 04:08 AM, Don Williams wrote:
> Bryan will either say it's exaggerated by the Jews or he won't say anything.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2010, at 5:31 AM, LoveHounds <kate...@comcast.net <mailto:kate...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>> Oh crap. This isn't going to start a spinoff of Haulocaust denial, is it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Douglas Alan <<mailto:darkw...@gmail.com>darkw...@gmail.com <mailto:darkw...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Bryan Dongray <<mailto:b...@dongrays.com><mailto:b...@dongrays.com>b...@dongrays.com <mailto:b...@dongrays.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> |>ouglas,
>>>
>>> On Smallpox: <http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm><http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm>http://www.london77truth.com/BAVA/Smallpox.htm
>>> (scroll down to see the graph, the drop after the spike
>>> was because people en masse refused to take vaccine)
>>> Then notice how the death rate continues to drop once people
>>> again stop having the vaccine!
>>>
>>>
>>> Bryan, everything you are writing on this topic is wholly without merit, and in fact highly dangerous. 300 million people died in the 20th century alone due to smallpox. That's 50 Haulocausts, and yet if you had your way, you would re-create this.
>>>
>>> Your claims and the claims that you post are not only wrong, they are */absurd. The people you cite are quacks. Anyone who doesn't want to buy into quackery can see this from their very own experience. E.g., when I was a kid, *everyone *was vaccinated for smallpox and yet */no one /caught it. If the smallpox vaccine caused smallpox, clearly that would not be the case. When I was a kid, no one was vaccinated for chickenpox and everyone caught it. Now most kids are vaccinated for chicken pox and none of them catch it.*/*
>>> */*
>>> */*
>>> */*You can argue that everyone would know that 2 + 2 really equals 5, if only the mathematicians didn't have a vested interest in helping to keep the corporate tax rate artificially low all you want, but anyone who can count can see that that's not the case.*/*
>>>
>>> |>ouglas
Bryan Dongray
Just like many religious people you pick and choose which of your pro-vaccine
studies to believe.
Indeed we live on different planets, you are in a dream world where the government
tells you 100% truth, and paid off scientists in Big Pharma and their PR departments
tell you truth too.
I live on the Earth, where studies (even by your pro-vaccine institutions) have
discovered these people to be lying, and making profit from it (ie their motive).
I'd go for (3) taking a chance of getting chicken pox, but in the case I didn't,
not being injected guaruntees I would NOT get shingles 100%.
It seems you prefer paying Big Pharma for the injections as a child
AND (because the same logic would apply to someone older being at risk
for shingles, and at 1 in 5 is a far more compelling case than 1 in 400
with chickenpox issues) you pay Big Pharma for an injection as a adult too.
I'll warn you to not sign up for Nigerian rich people who send you email
about helping them transfer money and you'll get a cut. That's a scam too.
I think it interesting you use "Luddites" as an insult, since it seems you support
the theory that industrialization is going to be the downfall of the planet.
Surely... if you believe the human attributed global warming theory, then..
weren't the Luddites ultimately right?
Bryan
PS I knew there had to have been a reason I've always HATED peanut butter.
It's one of the most disgusting tasing and smelling food products I know.
On 12/09/2010 09:22 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> "Anyone who has had chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine as a child is at
>
> risk for developing shingles later in life, and up to 20% do."
>
> http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/chicken_pox.htm
>
> So you have the vaccine and that gives you a 1 in 5 chance of getting shingles!
>
> Bryan, all I can see is that you live on a completely different planet than I do.
> On the planet that I live on, as a kid, */everyone/* I ever knew, including me,
> got chicken pox. Now, I don't know a single person who has been vaccinated who
> has gotten chicken pox. (Not that it /never /happens, but it's just relatively rare.)
>
> It would indeed be a real tragedy if the chicken pox vaccine made one more prone
> to shingles later in life. Except for */one/* thing: it's */chicken pox/* that
> makes one prone to shingles because if you ever had chicken pox (and nearly
> everyone did) the chicken pox virus lives in your body forever, waiting to come
> out again when you are old are grey.
>
> Now it's true that the chicken pox vaccine may or may not have the same effect
> re causing shingles later in live, since it is made from a weakened form of the
> chicken pox virus, but we have no way of know if it does, since the vaccine hasn't
> been around long enough for children to have been vaccinated with it and then
> grown up to be old and grey. Hence your citation is completely bogus since it is
> claiming something that is currently unknown.
>
> In any case, at */worst/* one's choice is between
> (1) getting chicken pox and being at risk for shingles
> (2) */not /*getting chicken pox and being at risk for shingles.
> Which one would you pick? Well, if you're a masochist, I suppose #1,
> but personally I'd chose #2.
>
> And this is assuming the worst: I.e., that the chicken pox vaccine doesn't also
> provide protection against shingles.
>
> Really, Bryan, on this issue, you are just talking out of your butt, spouting
> the worst sort of ludditism as "fact" and helping to spread and dangerous and
> malicious meme. Why don't you leave that kind of things for the Don's of the
> world. One of him is enough!
>
> |>ouglas
>
> P.S. Your chart that claims to prove the smallpox vaccine caused smallpox in the Philipines is utterly ludicrous. We know as certainly as we know that evolution is true and that gravity holds us on to the Earth that the smallpox vaccine does not cause smallpox. THERE IS NO SMALLPOX IN A SMALLPOX VACCINE.
>
> (There was in the kind they used in ancient China, but it hasn't been that way for more than 200 years. Apparently your expert quacks didn't get the memo.)
>
> P.P.S. If you want a health cause to bang the drum about, why not start a campaign against something really dangerous, like peanut butter. The naturally occurring mold-produced aflatoxin, turns out to be exceedingly carcinogenic. Cancer is continuously increasing due to environment toxins. That's where a rational person would be devoting their efforts.
--
Bryan Dongray
I believe you, and believe the thousands of other cases that have been
reported, including those where vaccines were PROVEN to have killed children.
I think people buy into the vaccinations are ok since they want to
believe as their small circle of friends were ok, it must have been ok.
I wonder how many of their friends were affected by some level of the
known "side effects" (such as those listed by the New Zealand study I
recently posted). Probably many, but "no" they won't believe evidence,
and claim scientists are quacks because they have evidence which shows
the paid-off scientists, doctors, government officials are distorting
the risks (or outright hiding them).
But to say "maybe they got dropped on their head" shows how compassionate
some people are (ie not at all). I know someone who probably was dropped on
their head, to not believe reality, my bet is because they are uncomfortable
with what that actually means - the government and big business lies.
I bet if they lived in the 1600's they'd be shouting loud and demanding
Gallelio get burned at the stake! Because their argument is because their
perceived respectable sources state (and that the majority of people also
believe) the world is flat and the Earth is the center of the universe!
The more this is discussed the more "Sheeple" is quite appropriate term
for these gullible ostriches.
But as I said, they can believe whatever they want to believe, my guess is
if/when one of their friends or family dies or is crippled by a vaccine
maybe their tune will change, as many people cannot look beyond their own
small narrowminded viewpoint.
Bryan
PS |>oug you only cherrypick the scientist you want to believe.
You don't believe astronomers, historians, and some of the climatologists
who have evidence to the contrary (or report that their findings were
altered by their management/institution PR/government), nor do you believe
scientists (including pro-vaccine ones) who report their real world
findings of the effects of vaccines when they do not agree with the
CDC and FDA stated risks of vaccines.
You call them "quacks" when these are the same people who state that
vaccines are good.
On 12/10/2010 11:40 AM, Bry wrote:
> *vaccinations are fine ???? you must be jokeing, i look after 40 clients
> that hav had there lifes ruined with vaccinations given to them as babies
> or young children,they cant walk,talk or do basic things that we take for
> granted in one way or another,all because they had vaccinations of one
> sort or another for sumthing..... how dare you say dont worry about it,
> or better yet tell them ,come and work with me for a day and then tell
> me and my clients dont worry about it as you clean them up,change there
> mollis (nappies)give them meds to stop them having fits or just to give
> them a life ,and then theres the parents that hav had their lifes ruined
> because of the child that cant live without 24 hours a day without care
> or funding from the goverment if they get any at all,vaccinations hav
> risks.stick your head back in the sand........bry*
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Douglas Alan <mailto:do...@alum.mit.edu>
> *To:* love-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:love-...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 11, 2010 2:15 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [LH] holy frackin heck
>
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Don Williams <donwi...@gmail.com <mailto:donwi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm consistent. Vaccinations are fine. Don't worry about them. Global
> Warming™ is a scam. Don't worry about it.
>
>
> No, you're not, Don. You chose to believe what you*/want /*to believe.
> I'm consistent: I believe what science tells us.
>
> |>ouglas
--
Bryan Dongray
so maybe you can understand their point of view.
If you had a child, perfectly fine, and you take them to have a
vaccine, because you believe the doctor says it'll be fine.
THEN... the child gets worse and worse and worse, mentally challenged,
or muscles waste away, or maybe even dies.
Even the doctor says it was caused by an adverse reaction to the vaccine.
So you're saying you wouldn't then believe them?
And you'd say it was because they maybe got dropped on their head,
even if they didn't.
Or are you saying you'd drop your child on their head on purpose
so you could continue to believe the lie that vaccines are ok?
Yes... your bad.
Bryan
On 12/10/2010 12:51 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Dec 10, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Bry <b...@slingshot.co.nz <mailto:b...@slingshot.co.nz>> wrote:
>
> *ihav plenty of evidence,its called paperwork on each client i hav,writtern by doctors of all degrees,*
>
>
> Oh, a doctor said so. It */must/* be true, then. My bad.
Douglas Alan
> I believe you, and believe the thousands of other cases that have been
> reported, including those where vaccines were PROVEN to have killed
> children.
>
Aspirin has also been proven to have killed people. It's also helped a lot
more people than it has hurt.
You can find so-called experts who will support any ridiculous claim: maybe
there are microscopic aliens living in your butt. I'm sure that you could
find a quack with definitive proof of that. Or one who will give you fancy
charts to prove that the smallpox vaccine caused smallpox. Something that it
couldn't *possibly* do, but why let simple logic get in the way of what you
want to believe.
There's only *one* way to defend against quackery: science. (Take science to
include math and logic here.) It has been proven time and time again over
history to be the only way. Abandon it, and abandon all hope of living a
life that is not ruled by superstition.
I grow weary of arguing with true-believer types like you and Don.
Don Williams
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:51 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dec 10, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Bry <b...@slingshot.co.nz> wrote:
> i hav plenty of evidence,its called paperwork on each client i hav,writtern by doctors of all degrees,
>
> Oh, a doctor said so. It must be true, then. My bad.
Douglas Alan
> my bet is because they are uncomfortable
> with what that actually means - the government and big business lies.
>
Btw, this is a completely absurd claim. For instance, I went to Stump Trivia
on Wednesday, and out of all the people there, I was the *only* person who
knew the answer to this trivia question: The democratically elected
government of what country was over-thrown in 1954 by a US and CIA-supported
coup at the urging of the United Fruit Company and with the approval of
President Eisenhower?
Yeah, sure, "sheeple" just happen to know stuff like this.
Douglas Alan
> That's like a scientist telling Doug something!
Clearly you are not so clear on the difference between "a scientist" and
"the scientific community". Also, I never claimed that the scientific
community is always right, as you well know. It's just a hell lot more
likely to be right than either you or Bryan.
Bryan Dongray
and logic for the truth, that vaccinations are not as safe as
they are claimed to be. They do not work as well as you've been
told. They cause problems more often than you know.
Open your eyes and actually pay attention to what scientists
ARE saying and stop discounting them as "quacks" because they
don't agree with what you were told in elementary school or
disagree statements of traditional beliefs that are being shown
time and time again, more and more to be plain and simply: wrong.
Can't you see we have an industry who makes profits on these
beliefs, so why can't you get it in your head that these people
have motive to lie?
Why can't you believe they do!
Bryan
On 12/10/2010 01:36 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> There's only */one/* way to defend against quackery: science.
> (Take science to include math and logic here.) It has been proven
> time and time again over history to be the only way.
> Abandon it, and abandon all hope of living a life that is
> not ruled by superstition.
>
Mikael Lännqvist
>Nobody thanked me when I was right about WMD in Iraq being a lie.
Bryan... Seriously!
Just about _everyone_ in the civilised world besides Americans knew
there were no WMD in Iraq.
LoveHounds
Cool!!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Douglas Alan <darkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> there are microscopic aliens living in your butt
--
Douglas Alan
> I agree, but it's YOU need to start doing that, look to science
> and logic for the truth, that vaccinations are not as safe as
> they are claimed to be.
>
Claimed by whom? No one claims that they are 100% safe. The only claim that
scientists make is that they are far better than the alternative. E.g., 300
million dead from smallpox. Heck, even Penn & Teller don't claim that they
they are perfectly safe.
They do not work as well as you've been told.
>
Says who? How do you know what I've been told?
> Open your eyes and actually pay attention to what scientists
> ARE saying
>
I *know* what scientists are saying. I went to MIT. I've worked with
scientists my entire adult life. I currently work at the Broad Institute,
the world's foremost genomics research lab.
> and stop discounting them as "quacks" because they don't agree with what
> you were told in elementary school
>
You're arguments like this are ridiculous. I work with biologists. If I told
them I believed your theories about the terrible dangers of the smallpox
vaccine, for instance, they'd start walking back very slowly, and they'd
never take me seriously again. Nor should they. Scientists work on
peer-review. Show me your PEER-REVIEWED evidence that the smallpox vaccine
ever caused a SINGLE case of smallpox. You can't, because it didn't.
Work that is not peer-reviewed is worth less than the paper that it's
printed on as far as scientific credibility goes.
or disagree statements of traditional beliefs that are being shown
> time and time again, more and more to be plain and simply: wrong.
>
Yes, I understand. According to Joe's Random Website.
> Can't you see we have an industry who makes profits on these beliefs, so
> why can't you get it in your head that these people have motive to lie?
>
Everyone always has a motive to lie. The people you cite have motive to lie.
They might be trying to sell their books through fear and sensationalism.
They might enjoy self-aggrandizement. Or maybe they are just hoping to get
laid. There are no shortage of reasons for people to lie, and big business
is just one of them. On the other hand, Science keeps the knowledge honest.
Why can't you believe they do!
>
I want to believe.
Douglas Alan
> Just about _everyone_ in the civilised world besides Americans knew there
> were no WMD in Iraq.
Us Americans knew too. Except for Don, that is.
|>ouglas
Bryan Dongray
> Bryan Dongray wrote:
>> Nobody thanked me when I was right about WMD in Iraq being a lie.
>
> Bryan... Seriously!
>
Just ask everyone in my old neighborhood (in the USA)!
I just noticed that just like Don and |>oug say here,
my neighbors thought I was a "lunatic" for claiming Iraq
didn't have WMD. The government and "experts" had told
them, so it must be true.
(ok they didn't say "lunatic", but it was a similar thought)
I see the same is happening here, people are believing the government
and experts, even though there are thousands of people and experts
with real world examples, where vaccines are shown to be dangerous
and some don't even work when they study the outcome.
But everyone has a right to believe anything they want, but I believe
people should not insult others, me or respected scientists because
they have found lies in the vaccine industry.
Insults aimed at these people is extremely lame.
Now if they were to dispute their findings through other evidence,
that'd be something. But they don't dispute the evidence, just throw
insults at the people who discovered it. Lame, lame, lame.
Bryan
Bryan Dongray
of the USA training terrorists to act in other countries because they didn't
agree that the people of other countries should be allowed to farm otherwise
discarded land by big corporations. So I looked into that in some more detail.
Did you know that the head of the CIA (Allen Dullus) was (along with his brother)
a shareholder of United Fruit Company, who would have lost out to these new
policies of Guatemala?
I did not know that.
I find it interesting that in 1945 (which led to the re-election) that 2% of the
elite owned 70% of the land in Guatemala, and we see a similar thing happening
in the USA. So when the people voted against this, and something to be done
through a democratic process, the head of the CIA (who would lose out financially)
uses his power to train people for terrorism, to get rid of who the people voted.
I wonder if a big power in the world will train terrorists to come to the USA
and uprise against a future elected US government that wants to give the power
and freedom back to the people?
What if I ask my original question this way:
Do you think members of the government lie?
Bryan
On 12/10/2010 01:43 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Dec 10, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Bryan Dongray <b...@dongrays.com <mailto:b...@dongrays.com>> wrote:
>
> my bet is because they are uncomfortable
> with what that actually means - the government and big business lies.
>
> Btw, this is a completely absurd claim.
> For instance, I went to Stump Trivia on Wednesday, and out of all the people there,
> I was the */only/* person who knew the answer to this trivia question:
> The democratically elected government of what country was over-thrown in 1954
> by a US and CIA-supported coup at the urging of the United Fruit Company and
> with the approval of President Eisenhower?
>
> Yeah, sure, "sheeple" just happen to know stuff like this.
>
> |>ouglas
--