Helsinki concom engages in anti-filk bullying

[Gary McGath]

The Helsinki concom has forced Dave Weingart out of his position as filk
head, and is smearing him to boot.

I had no plans to attend the con, but I'll refrain from giving that gang
of bullies any helpful publicity on my Twitter Filk News account. I
really hope every filker pulls out of the con.

https://mcgath.wordpress.com/2016/10/08/fandom-bullies/

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

[Keith F. Lynch]

Everyone is avoiding naming the accuser. I think that's a mistake.
His name is out there as the accused, so her name should be out there
as the accuser. Not so that anyone can harrass her about it. Just
the opposite. If she has a history of accusing multiple men of
stalking, men who don't want to also be accused should know to
avoid her.

If David is the only man she accused, I would hope that people would
reserve judgement. But if she has a history of such accusations,
I think people should be aware of that before they choose to have
anything to do with her.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

[Gary McGath]

On 10/8/16 3:58 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> Everyone is avoiding naming the accuser. I think that's a mistake.
> His name is out there as the accused, so her name should be out there
> as the accuser. Not so that anyone can harrass her about it. Just
> the opposite. If she has a history of accusing multiple men of
> stalking, men who don't want to also be accused should know to
> avoid her.
>
> If David is the only man she accused, I would hope that people would
> reserve judgement. But if she has a history of such accusations,
> I think people should be aware of that before they choose to have
> anything to do with her.

The only thing is that there's nothing anyone could take seriously as an
accusation. Dave is "accused" (with factual accuracy) of posting to a
chat which she also participated in. The post had nothing to do with
her. It's the people who treat such things as a punishable offense who
are the problem.

I'd expect that if she routinely makes such complaints, most would be
ignored, so there would be no history anyone could easily discover.

[Michael Benveniste]

On 10/8/2016 3:58 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> The Helsinki concom has forced Dave Weingart out of his position as
>> filk head, and is smearing him to boot.
>

> Everyone is avoiding naming the accuser. I think that's a mistake.
> His name is out there as the accused, so her name should be out there
> as the accuser.

Dave Weingart has explicitly requested that we leave the other
person's name out of it. I for one will honor that request.

However one wishes to characterize these actions, I don't see
them as anti-filk per se. While I can't say, "the same thing could
have happened to anyone else working for Helsinki," the mindset which
resulted in this isn't limited to, nor targeted at any particular area
or function of the con.

--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Lee Gold XP]

On 10/8/2016 4:03 PM, Michael Benveniste wrote:
> However one wishes to characterize these actions, I don't see
> them as anti-filk per se.

The Worldcon is accusing Weingart because of the actions of his
"followers," meaning (I think) people who read his Live Journal and
Facebook postings. I don't know if those would include a large %age of
filkers.

The Worldcon says it was easy to figure out from Weingart's postings who
the person who didn't want to hear from him was. I didn't try, and I
haven't heard.
Weingart said he doesn't want people to bother this person, and I
believed him.
I don't think I want to deal with this Worldcon concom.

--Lee

[Michael Benveniste]

On 10/8/2016 7:56 PM, Lee Gold XP wrote:

> The Worldcon is accusing Weingart because of the actions of his
> "followers," meaning (I think) people who read his Live Journal and
> Facebook postings. I don't know if those would include a large %age of
> filkers.

I think you've got the timeline backwards. The claimed offense took
place on the 3rd of September. They fired him on the 3rd of October.
His first post to LV and Facebook on the issue was on the 5th of
October. His "followers" started protesting after that.

http://filkerdave.livejournal.com/

> I don't think I want to deal with this Worldcon concom.

Even though I had a very pleasant lunch with one of the con chairs
when I was in Helsinki earlier this year, I can't blame anyone who
feels this way. I don't have a membership and my wife just sold
hers.

[Gary McGath]

On 10/8/16 7:56 PM, Lee Gold XP wrote:
> On 10/8/2016 4:03 PM, Michael Benveniste wrote:
>> However one wishes to characterize these actions, I don't see
>> them as anti-filk per se.
>
> The Worldcon is accusing Weingart because of the actions of his
> "followers," meaning (I think) people who read his Live Journal and
> Facebook postings. I don't know if those would include a large %age of
> filkers.

Quite a lot of the comments on his LiveJournal posts have been from
filkers. I briefly looked at the Filk group on Facebook and saw comments
supportive of him there as well, though I rarely get on Facebook.

I hadn't heard that the Helsinki clique had accused his "followers," but
if they mean that they're outraged that filkers wouldn't just shut up
and acquiesce, then they ain't seen nothing yet. We haven't even started
posting the songs. :)

[Rafe Culpin]

In article <ntbj54$1oo$1...@reader2.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch)
wrote:

> Everyone is avoiding naming the accuser. I think that's a mistake.
> His name is out there as the accused, so her name should be out there
> as the accuser.

Please read the following post from Dave Weingart BEFORE going any further with
this.

http://filkerdave.livejournal.com/1309983.html

Anyone else feeling like attacking her, READ WHAT DAVE SAID ABOUT IT.

--
To reply email rafe, at the address filk co uk
Information on filk in the UK: http://filk.co.uk/

[Gary McGath]

On 10/9/16 7:43 AM, Rafe Culpin wrote:

> Please read the following post from Dave Weingart BEFORE going any further with
> this.
>
> http://filkerdave.livejournal.com/1309983.html
>
> Anyone else feeling like attacking her, READ WHAT DAVE SAID ABOUT IT.
>

And keep in mind that if anyone harasses her, the concom will try to
blame Dave.

[Keith F. Lynch]

Lee Gold XP <lee....@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> Weingart said he doesn't want people to bother this person, and I
> believed him.

Again, I'm not suggesting that anyone bother her. I'm suggesting that
if she has accused multiple men of stalking rather than just Weingart,
that it would be good if men who are considering a relationship with
her could learn this by Googling her name.

And, symmetrically, if Weingart has been accused of stalking by
multiple women rather than just by this one woman, it would be good if
women who are considering a relationship with him could learn this by
Googling his name.

It's the asymmetry I object to. I've also written to the Washington
Post about this -- whenever a woman accuses a man of anything, they
print his name but not hers.

> I don't think I want to deal with this Worldcon concom.

Me neither. If I had a membership, I'd be seriously considering
getting rid of it. (I no longer fly, and I won't until airlines
resume treating their passengers as valued customers rather than
as criminal suspects.)

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote in
news:nte2l9$lm$1...@reader2.panix.com:

> Lee Gold XP <lee....@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> Weingart said he doesn't want people to bother this person, and
>> I believed him.
>
> Again, I'm not suggesting that anyone bother her.

You're suggesting something that cannot possibly end any other way.
And you're too stupid to know it, or just don't care.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Keith F. Lynch]

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> The only thing is that there's nothing anyone could take seriously
> as an accusation. Dave is "accused" (with factual accuracy) of
> posting to a chat which she also participated in. The post had
> nothing to do with her. It's the people who treat such things
> as a punishable offense who are the problem.

I was speaking of whatever she said that caused the concom to put
him on double secret probation in the first place.

> I'd expect that if she routinely makes such complaints, most would be
> ignored, so there would be no history anyone could easily discover.

If nobody who has heard one of her accusations has heard (or can find)
her other accusations against other people, how would they know not to
take the accusation seriously?

[Gary McGath]

Vox Day has discovered the issue. I'm sure his crowd would like nothing
better than to make trouble for everybody. I've disabled comments on my
blog post for that reason, after seeing a couple that probably came from
that direction.

[Leslie]

I've noticed that the last time a major convention made serious efforts to ban filk -- and filkers -- it wound up losing so much money that its continued survival was in grave doubt. I'm also annoyed by the Politically Correct crowd (not just in fandom!) using Liberal fashions for purposes of extortion. I'd like to know, did the Helsinki con-com intend to get rid of the whole filk track or did they want to replace Dave with somebody else? If so, who?

[Rafe Culpin]

Please also note the two following links before taking this any further.

http://filkerdave.livejournal.com/1311047.html

http://www.worldcon.fi/20161011_statement/

[Jeff Urs]

I wonder if the reason they stepped back was because they
finally realized that their delivery of a three-day ultimatum
on the first day of a two-day religious observance was far
clearer evidence of an intent to harass than was the accidental
adjacency of those two posts.

--
Jeff

[Gary McGath]

On 10/11/16 7:50 AM, Rafe Culpin wrote:
> Please also note the two following links before taking this any further.
>
> http://filkerdave.livejournal.com/1311047.html
>
> http://www.worldcon.fi/20161011_statement/
>

Referrers from Vox Day URLs accounted for a big proportion of the views
on my blog article, and I started getting nasty comments from Rabid
Puppies. I closed the post to comments, and then someone tried sneaking
in a comment on a different post. For the moment, my blog is on strict
moderation because of that crowd.