Highest Opus Number?
Richard Schultz
A lot of prolific composers didn't use opus numbers for most (Schubert)
or all (Bach) of their compositions. I was wondering, of those composers
who did use opus numbers, who made it to the highest number? The highest
I can think of is Czerny, who got up to Op. 861. Of people I can
think of immediately, Milhaud (Op. 441) comes in a distant second,
although I think that there are other Czerny-esque composers (of
exercises and such) who also got into big numbers. Does anyone out
there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
And when I found the door was shut,
I tried to turn the handle, but --
TROMBAEDU
> Does anyone out
>there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
I dont know, but you might want to check out Alan Hovhaness. I know he is very
prolific
Jordan
louis...@internetmci.com
Dear Richard,
Regarding toweringly high opus numbers, I don;t think anyone can beat your
noted Czerny. HAve you checked into that baroque musical geiser of
composition, G.P. Teleman? Of modern composers, Alan Hovhaness comes to
mind as an overly prolific opus-number piler. One also might check (or
Czech, as the pun goes) one of the most prolific composers of our time,
Bohuslav Martinu, for a stratospheric opus stack.
As Teleman, Czerny, Martinu and Hovhaness have amply demostrated, high
levels of prolificness often lead to correspondingly high levels of
self-borrowing, creative dilution and redundancy.
Louis Blois, New York
In article <6jucjh$gvo$1...@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, correct address in .sigfile wrote:
> A lot of prolific composers didn't use opus numbers for most (Schubert)
> or all (Bach) of their compositions. I was wondering, of those composers
> who did use opus numbers, who made it to the highest number? The highest
> I can think of is Czerny, who got up to Op. 861. Of people I can
> think of immediately, Milhaud (Op. 441) comes in a distant second,
> although I think that there are other Czerny-esque composers (of
> exercises and such) who also got into big numbers. Does anyone out
> there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
>
Richard Schultz
louis...@internetmci.com wrote:
: Dear Richard,
: HAve you checked into that baroque musical geiser of
: composition, G.P. Teleman?
Did Telemann use opus numbers? I specifically excluded non-opus
numbering composers like Bach and Schubert from my question.
: Of modern composers, Alan Hovhaness comes to
: mind as an overly prolific opus-number piler. One also might check (or
: Czech, as the pun goes) one of the most prolific composers of our time,
: Bohuslav Martinu, for a stratospheric opus stack.
Does either of them match Milhaud, who made it up to Opus 441?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
jeffk...@worldnet.att.net
In article <199805202229...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
trom...@aol.com (TROMBAEDU) wrote:
>
> > Does anyone out
> >there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
>
very
> prolific
>
> Jordan
I think Hovhaness is up to about Op. 400 and has written nearly 60 symphonies.
Although Telemann's works are not catalogued by opus number, he is surely
among the most prolific composers. If memory serves, Telemann wrote over 1000
cantatas, set the Passion almost 50 times, and wrote many other religious
works. And that's just the beginning. His orchestral and chamber music
output is equally vast.
Jeff
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john fodi
a Francois Pierre, op. 919, (fl, 2cl, trp) written in 1997.
Carl Czerny with at least op. 861.
Serafino Alassio at least op. 739.
john
Richard Schultz
john fodi (john...@utoronto.ca) wrote:
: Have you tried the Dutch composer Jan van Dijk (1918- )? Quatuor: Hommage
: a Francois Pierre, op. 919, (fl, 2cl, trp) written in 1997.
Looks like we have a new consensus #1 on the leader board here.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
rkha...@adnc.com
In article <199805202229...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
trom...@aol.com (TROMBAEDU) wrote:
>
> > Does anyone out
> >there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
>
> I dont know, but you might want to check out Alan Hovhaness. I know he is
very
> prolific
>
> Jordan
>
Surely Bach, Haydn and Schubert have very high opus numbers. What is the
highest BWV number in Bach's catalog? (Certainly past 1000)
Ramon Khalona
Carlsbad, California
Mario Taboada
Ramon:
<<Surely Bach, Haydn and Schubert have very high opus numbers. What is
the
highest BWV number in Bach's catalog? (Certainly past 1000)>>
I believe Telemann wrote even more than these guys. He was a composing
machine. On the other hand, I don't think that the publication of
Haydn's works is finished, so he may come out on top yet. For example,
the excellent Teldec CD set of Haydn's Wind Divertimenti says in the
notes that many of these works were played from manuscript - and some
had been found fairly recently.
Regards,
Mario Taboada
Mike Painter
> In article <199805202229...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> trom...@aol.com (TROMBAEDU) wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone out
> > >there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
> >
> > I dont know, but you might want to check out Alan Hovhaness. I know he is
> very
> > prolific
> >
> > Jordan
> >
>
> Surely Bach, Haydn and Schubert have very high opus numbers. What is the
> highest BWV number in Bach's catalog? (Certainly past 1000)
Schubert doesn't have very high opus numbers (the highest I've come across
is 142 for the second set of Impromptus), in spite of the phenomenal
number of individual works he composed (over 1000). This is because only a
small proportion of his works were published during his lifetime, and
generally, opus numbers refer to published works. (Works published after
death are op.posth. and often don't have numbers.)
In the case of Schubert, Otto Erich Deutsch set about arranging all
Schubert's works in chronological order and assigned numbers to them
(D.935 in the case of the Impromptus), and that is most often how his
works are referred to now, even if they have opus numbers.
Mike
To respond via e-mail, remove * from address.
Suzanne Sarlette/Gerald Pearson
Iian Neill wrote:
>
> I am told that P.D.Q. Bach clocked in around about Op. 32,000.
>
> Regards,
>
> Iian Neill.
Hey, that's Schickele number:). I believe that the original poster was
specifically talking about only Opus numbers.
Sue Sarlette
Iian Neill
Matthias Schneider
Composers of light music (e.g., waltzes) usually bring it to
high numbers:
Carl Michael Ziehrer (1843-1922) has a "Faecher Polonaise" Op. 525,
Johann Strauss son a "Deutschmeister Jubilaeumsmarsch" Op. 470.
Matthias Schneider
Frank Eggleston
To add in another thread, I think that PDQB is also the author of "the
longest theme", which is the subject of a fugue in "The Seasonings", an
oratorio. The theme is so long that the fugue is discontinued on
account of darkness.
Frank Eggleston
----------------
Methos (to Dawson): We actually make a reeeely good team,
like Scully and Mulder, Sipowicz and Simone,
Caligula and Incitatus ..(Well, maybe not Incitatus,
because he was a >horse<)...
Joe Dawson: WILL YOU SHUT UP?
Jon Bell
In article <35654B...@erols.com>,
Frank Eggleston <eggl...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>To add in another thread, I think that PDQB is also the author of "the
>longest theme", which is the subject of a fugue in "The Seasonings", an
>oratorio. The theme is so long that the fugue is discontinued on
>account of darkness.
That sounds like it would be more appropriate for Schickele's "New
Horizons in Musical Appreciation" (Beethoven's Fifth on one stereo
channel, and a running baseball-style commentary on the other
channel).
--
Jon Bell <jtb...@presby.edu>
rkha...@adnc.com
In article <EtD7w...@presby.edu>,
Quotes of Beethoven's Fifth are legion, but two that are memorable to me are
Alberto Cortez's magnificent setting to music of one of Almafuerte's poems,
"Los Incurables". The other is towards the middle and again at the very end
of the popular tango "Taquito Militar". Tango and Beethoven, there you have
it.
Christian Ohn
Jon Bell <jtb...@presby.edu> wrote:
: That sounds like it would be more appropriate for Schickele's "New
: channel, and a running baseball-style commentary on the other
: channel).
Why not replace baseball by football? Then you can include
"POM POM POM POOOOM"-girls.
--
Christian Ohn
In my email address, first remove the existing at and dots, then replace Z
by at and every X by a dot.
Alexander N. Andreyev
>Surely Bach, Haydn and Schubert have very high opus numbers. What is the
>highest BWV number in Bach's catalog? (Certainly past 1000)
Yes, Brandenburg concerti are numbered past BWV 1000.
However, I think that if Mozart lived some ten years longer, he'd be the
composer dicussed in this thread.
About Schubert - I have a record of his beautiful piano sonata in B flat,
numbered D. 960. My question is - what does this D. stand for?
Best wishes to all true lovers of classical music,
Alexander N. Andreyev (alex...@vvv.srcc.msu.su)
Mike Davis
D. stands for Deutsch
richard hihn
Alexander N. Andreyev (alex...@vvv.srcc.msu.su) wrote:
: About Schubert - I have a record of his beautiful piano sonata in B flat,
: numbered D. 960. My question is - what does this D. stand for?
D. stands for Otto Deutsch;, the musicologist who specialized in the
music of Schubert and who catalogued Schubert's works.
Dick Hihn
Mike Painter
In article <6k61do$f3a$1...@ns.mtu.ru>, "Alexander N. Andreyev"
<alex...@vvv.srcc.msu.su> wrote:
> >Surely Bach, Haydn and Schubert have very high opus numbers. What is the
> >highest BWV number in Bach's catalog? (Certainly past 1000)
>
>
> Yes, Brandenburg concerti are numbered past BWV 1000.
> However, I think that if Mozart lived some ten years longer, he'd be the
> composer dicussed in this thread.
>
> About Schubert - I have a record of his beautiful piano sonata in B flat,
> numbered D. 960. My question is - what does this D. stand for?
>
> Best wishes to all true lovers of classical music,
> Alexander N. Andreyev (alex...@vvv.srcc.msu.su)
The answer to your question was further along in the original thread:
> In the case of Schubert, Otto Erich Deutsch set about arranging all
> Schubert's works in chronological order and assigned numbers to them
> (D.935 in the case of the Impromptus), and that is most often how his
> works are referred to now, even if they have opus numbers.
You should listen to D.958 and D.959 as well -- the Piano Sonatas in C
minor and A major. They are also wonderful.
Richard Schultz
rkha...@adnc.com wrote:
: Surely Bach, Haydn and Schubert have very high opus numbers. What is the
: highest BWV number in Bach's catalog? (Certainly past 1000)
Bach did not use opus numbers. Haydn and Schubert did not assign
Opus numbers to everything they wrote, so the highest opus number
does not reflect the totality of their output. (e.g. with Schubert,
the Deutsch catalog gets up to nearly 1000, but I don't think he made
it even as far as 200 with opus numbers.) My original question was not
"who is the most prolific composer," but *specifically* what is the
highest *opus number* given to a published piece?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
There's something I must tell you, there's something I must say:
The only really perfect love is one that gets away.
David Samuel Barr
Frank Eggleston wrote:
>
> Iian Neill wrote:
> >
> > I am told that P.D.Q. Bach clocked in around about Op. 32,000.
>
PDQ didn't use opus numbers. What his pieces are known by are the
Schickele catalogue numbers, which are rather more descriptive than
tabulatory. The actual number of works discovered so far is only
about 100.
> To add in another thread, I think that PDQB is also the author of "the
> longest theme", which is the subject of a fugue in "The Seasonings",
> an oratorio. The theme is so long that the fugue is discontinued on
> account of darkness.
Actually, the fugue, which occurs in the middle of the oratorio is
called off right after the first violins state the 18-bar theme on
account of the union overtime charges that would be occurred if it were
to be played in full.
Rob Barnett
Milhaud Villa-Lobos had opus numbers well over 200 I believe.
The US/Armenian composer Alan Hvhaness has opus numbers above 400 - I
think - a phenomenally prolific composer!
His 1984 symphony No 50 Mt St Helens is Opus 360! and that was 14 years ago!
Rob
Johannes Roehl
I think that Johann Strauss II has opus numbers up to at least 400, maybe
up to 500...
Johannes
--
Johannes Roehl Books! 'tis a dull and endless strife:
Physik Come, hear the woodland linnet,
Uni Giessen How sweet his music! on my life,
johanne...@physik.uni-giessen.de There's more of wisdom in it.
-W.Wordsworth
Kurt Hansen
On Sun, 24 May 1998 09:35:13 +0100, Rob Barnett wrote:
>Milhaud Villa-Lobos had opus numbers well over 200 I believe.
>
>The US/Armenian composer Alan Hvhaness has opus numbers above 400 - I
>think - a phenomenally prolific composer!
The danish composer Niels Viggo Bentzon (still living, 89 years old)
has more than 600 opus numbers.
Kind regards
Kurt Hansen
Eric Schissel
And woefully few recorded... (for myself I still have only heard the
Pezzi Sinfonici, in their LP recording not the new Classico one.)
-Eric Schissel
--
schi...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/schissel ICQ#7279016
standard disclaimer
Matt
Hans Sachs is credited with over 6000 songs.
--
Matt Fields, DMA http://listen.to/mattaj TwelveToneToyBox http://start.at/tttb
619-469-0564 web...@SOLUSOFT.NET lsto...@EAGLE1.EAGLENET.COM
Be sure to send them all the spam mail you send to me!
Jose Oscar Marques
On Sun, 24 May 1998 09:35:13 +0100 Rob Barnett <bar...@zetnet.co.uk>
wrote in article <199805240...@zetnet.co.uk>:
>Milhaud Villa-Lobos had opus numbers well over 200 I believe.
I heard he had as much opus numbers as Heitor Villa-Lobos and Darius
Milhaud put together. Truly amazing!
--
Jose Oscar Marques
(to reply by e-mail remove the "X" from my address)
Jose Oscar Marques
On Mon, 25 May 1998 18:49:08 GMT k-ha...@post4.fjerndette.tele.dk (Kurt
Hansen) wrote in article <3569bc4e...@news.inet.tele.dk>:
>The danish composer Niels Viggo Bentzon (still living, 89 years old)
>has more than 600 opus numbers.
Last time I checked he was in his 20th Symphony. I have some of these
symphonies in bootleg tapes, including no. 16 from 1990. I know that
some of them reached the CD; can you inform me about the general
commercial availability of his symphonic output in Danish labels? Or of
his many concertos and string quartets?
Kurt Hansen
On Tue, 26 May 1998 00:45:38 GMT, Jose Oscar Marques wrote:
>>The danish composer Niels Viggo Bentzon (still living, 89 years old)
>>has more than 600 opus numbers.
>
>Last time I checked he was in his 20th Symphony. I have some of these
>symphonies in bootleg tapes, including no. 16 from 1990. I know that
>some of them reached the CD; can you inform me about the general
>commercial availability of his symphonic output in Danish labels? Or of
>his many concertos and string quartets?
I am pushing the nordic record companies to make some more recordings
with his music. I am informed that 3 cd's with some of his early piano
sonatas is to be released 1998-99.
For the moment I am seaching all information I can get to make a
complete discography. Any help would be most appreciated.
My personal interest in NVB's music is rather new, and I am working to
collect information about CD releases. I am the lucky owner of the
following cd's, which are all available:
Symphonies no. 3 & 4 (Dacapo/Marco Polo DCCD 9102)
Feature on René Descartes, op. 357 - BIS-79 (together with works by
two other danish composers)
16 Etudes, op. 464 for violoncello solo - Danacord DACOCD 478
(together with Alfredo Piatti: 12 caprices)
Two pieces for oboe and piano, op. 41 - Dacapo/Marco Polo 8.224043
(together with oboe works by other danish composers)
Seven Small Pieces for piano, op. 3 - Danacord DACOCD 434-35 (a
double-cd: Danish Piano Miniatures, which includes many wonderful
pieces by "the cream" of danish composers).
Concerto no. 2 for violin and orchestra, op. 136 (Danacord DACOCD
461-79 (a 10 cd-box with 26 danish violin concertos).
I'll turn back when I have some more material :-)
Kind regards
Kurt Hansen
Rob Ainsley
When I edited Classic CD magazine a while back this question was asked.
The highest opus number we could find was by someone called Charles
Grobe, who wrote lots of educational pieces. The number was something
like 1,990; perhaps someone can verify the exact figure.
Rob Ainsley
Kevin Sutton
dhmac wrote:
Yes, but - unless I'm wrong - aren't about half of JS Bach's works
lost?
About half of the Cantatas are lost, but I'm not sure that the same applies to other genres.
Kevin Sutton
>
HOWARD HELLER
-=> Quoting Kevin Sutton to All <=-
KS> @FROM :maes...@gte.net
KS> N @SUBJECT:Re: Schubert - what is D. ? [Re: Highest Opus Number?]
KS> N @UMSGID :<6mfehg$m7v$4...@news-1.news>
KS> N @UNEWSGR:01rec.music.classical
KS> N dhmac wrote:
KS> Yes, but - unless I'm wrong - aren't about half of JS Bach's works
KS> lost? About half of the Cantatas are lost, but I'm not sure that the
KS> same applies to other genres.
From what I've heard, and this is purely anecdotal, a full two-thirds of
J.S. Bach's entire output is missing and unaccounted for at this point.
Considering the BWV catalogue of his known works extends past the number
1200, the very idea is staggering.
Regards,
Howard Heller
***************************************************
* Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations *
***************************************************
.. Advertising that uses superlatives isn't.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
Hanns KREHBIEL
HOWARD HELLER wrote:
>
> From what I've heard, and this is purely anecdotal, a full two-thirds of
> J.S. Bach's entire output is missing and unaccounted for at this point.
>
> Considering the BWV catalogue of his known works extends past the number
> 1200, the very idea is staggering.
>
First of all: The BWV catalogue is organized systematically, and did not try
a one-by-one numbering as the K"ochel or Deutsch catalogues. In BWV the
works of a certain type start at some round number or so, e.g. the cantatas
run from 1 to 200-odd independent of the date of their composition.
That means: The numbers are not all used. My estimate: less than half of them.
Of the lost works: At most 1/3, because only one of the sons (W. Fr.) squandered
his inherited manuskripts. Shall we try a crude estimate how many of Bach's
works survived? I take the numbers from memory. Scholarly corrections accepted.
Cantatas including W.O. 220,
Large choral works plus small masses: 10
Motets: 8
Concertos for soloists/orch. incl. Brandenbg. 20
Suites for orchestra: 4
Chamber music for 1/2 melody instr. plus
continuo or obbligato harpsichord: 24
Pieces for a solo instrument except keyboard: 14
Suites, partitas, concti. for harpsichordsolo 22
The WTP, prelude and fugue counted as one: 24
The Art of Fugue: 20
Early harpsichord works, toccate, sonates, 20
Arrangements after Vivaldi and others: 20
How do they count the Goldberg Variations: 1
Something and fugue for organ: 20
Chorale-bound organ works: 100
Isolated chorales and religious songs: 80
Let's add this up after corrections were made.
lexa...@gmail.com
On http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Charles_Grobe I found an Opus 1998:
Op.1998 - Sweet Spirit, Hear my Prayer (1879)
Lex Abels
lexa...@gmail.com
> Richard Schultz wrote:
> >
> > louis...@internetmci.com wrote:
> > : Dear Richard,
> >
> > : HAve you checked into that baroque musical geiser of
> > : composition, G.P. Teleman?
> >
> > Did Telemann use opus numbers? I specifically excluded non-opus
> > numbering composers like Bach and Schubert from my question.
> >
> > : Of modern composers, Alan Hovhaness comes to
> > : mind as an overly prolific opus-number piler. One also might check (or
> > : Czech, as the pun goes) one of the most prolific composers of our time,
> > : Bohuslav Martinu, for a stratospheric opus stack.
> >
> > Does either of them match Milhaud, who made it up to Opus 441?
> > -----
> > Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
> > Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
> > Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
> > -----
> > -- Wanda LandowskaHave you tried the Dutch composer Jan van Dijk (1918- )? Quatuor: Hommage
> a Francois Pierre, op. 919, (fl, 2cl, trp) written in 1997.
> Carl Czerny with at least op. 861.
> Serafino Alassio at least op. 739.
>
> john
In 2015 Jan van Dijk (at that time 97 years old!) wrote his Opus 1233 (Two duets for two violins), and still counting!
Lex Abels
isaacs...@gmail.com
Sissel Ng
> A lot of prolific composers didn't use opus numbers for most (Schubert)
> or all (Bach) of their compositions. I was wondering, of those composers
> who did use opus numbers, who made it to the highest number? The highest
> I can think of is Czerny, who got up to Op. 861. Of people I can
> think of immediately, Milhaud (Op. 441) comes in a distant second,
> although I think that there are other Czerny-esque composers (of
> exercises and such) who also got into big numbers. Does anyone out
> there know of any composers who got to an opus number bigger than 861?
> Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
> Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
> Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
> -----
> I tried to turn the handle, but --
For now, excluding contemporary composers (Like Stephen W. Beatty with his Op.3169 currently) and joke/comedy (Like the PDQ Bach as mentioned below.)
Charles Grobe seems to have one of the highest opus numbers in his piano work The Old Oaken Bucket. (Op.1990)