Grimaud & Abbado part

[graham]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/arts/music/helene-grimaud-and-claudio-abbado-part-ways.html?_r=1

[herman]

On 1 nov, 05:40, "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/arts/music/helene-grimaud-and-claud...

It sounds pretty awful, Abbado tricking Grimaud into recording the
Mozart cadenza.

[pianomaven]

Well, yes, I agree.

Abbado is used to getting his own way. So is Grimaud.

In the end Abbado looks petulant.

TD

[John Wiser]

"graham" <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:RKKrq.18579$tM2....@newsfe15.iad...
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/arts/music/helene-grimaud-and-claudio-abbado-part-ways.html?_r=1
I'm with wolfgirl. The Busoni cadenza is seriously entertaining
while Mozart's is not much more than perfunctory.
Abbado's pique strikes me as unmannerly;
he should have deferred to the lady.
I trust that her forthcoming DG recording will once again
demonstrate that conductors can be quite adequately replaced
on the podium by potted plants, or an equivalent volume of air.

JDW

[herman]

On 1 nov, 12:15, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:RKKrq.18579$tM2....@newsfe15.iad...>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/arts/music/helene-grimaud-and-claud...

>
> I'm with wolfgirl. The Busoni cadenza is seriously entertaining
> while Mozart's is not much more than perfunctory.
> Abbado's pique strikes me as unmannerly;
> he should have deferred to the lady.

It's nothing to do with being a gentleman; it's a prfoessional and
artistic issue. The cadenza is the pianist's territory.

And especially trying to trick Grimaud into recording the Mozart
cadenza is just awful.

[Tim Haricots]

Yes, indeed, why would a conductor care so much about a piano cadenza?

TH

[O]

In article
<0edc2306-390c-4120...@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Not only is wolfgirl taking the correct path, she's far, far better
looking than Abbado.

-Owen

[Dufus]

On Nov 1, 5:35 am, pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In the end Abbado looks petulant.
>

Indeed. And I'd suggest a conductor take care with pianists who have
wolves as friends !

Dufus

[J.Martin]

> > It sounds pretty awful, Abbado tricking Grimaud into recording the
> > Mozart cadenza.
>
> Yes, indeed, why would a conductor care so much about a piano cadenza?
>

Which is just one of the reasons we might take this account of their
"artistic differences" with a grain of salt. It seems odd that Abbado
would insist on the Mozart cadenza, and odder still that he would
trick Grimaud into recording it. Especially given that Abbado has
never been known as a tyrant. Especially since the whole fracas wound
up costing a lot of money for the Lucerne festival, by all accounts
Abbado's pet project. Then again, I don't see why the people quoted
in the article would have lied. A puzzling story.

[John Wiser]

"O" <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote in message
news:011120111138375424%ow...@denofinequityx.com...

Now, Owen, that's just our particular point of view.

JDW

[O]

In article <fMXrq.6839$jK1....@newsfe17.iad>, John Wiser

I'd bet even the wolves would agree with me. Especially the wolves in
this newsgroup.

-Owen, what big eyes you have!

[M forever]

Not if they agreed beforehand to do this concerto in a classicist
style. In that case, the Busoni cadenza would be a stylistic mismatch.

[M forever]

Abbado may not be "known as a tyrant", but it is well known in the
classical music "scene" that what Claudio wants, Claudio gets. He is
more known to be sneaky in order to get his will than to say outright
what he wants. When Karajan died, Solti jumped in an took over the
summer festival in Salzburg and then assumed artistic leadership.
Until Claudio had him gently pushed aside so he could take over
himself. And according to Solti's autobiography, Solti wasn't even
told until he found out from the papers that he wasn't going to
continue as artistic director. What Claudio wants, Claudio gets.

[Gerard]

Because of one example?

[Gerard]

If they agreed, it's not "what Claudio wants, Claudio gets".

[Ray Hall]

Yes, and nobody gets one over on the wolf girl. As neither should they.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Mark S]

On Nov 1, 4:15 am, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:RKKrq.18579$tM2....@newsfe15.iad...>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/arts/music/helene-grimaud-and-claud...

>
> I'm with wolfgirl. The Busoni cadenza is seriously entertaining
> while Mozart's is not much more than perfunctory.
> Abbado's pique strikes me as unmannerly;
> he should have deferred to the lady.
> I trust that her forthcoming DG recording will once again
> demonstrate that conductors can be quite adequately replaced
> on the podium by potted plants, or an equivalent volume of air.
>
> JDW

I guess no one considered releasing the CD with BOTH cadenzas,
allowing the listener to program whichever one they wanted to listen
to.

[John Wiser]

"Mark S" <markst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90456dd8-6219-48f0...@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 1, 4:15 am, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote: [total snippery]

> "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>

> I guess no one considered releasing the CD with BOTH cadenzas,
> allowing the listener to program whichever one they wanted to listen to.

I dunno how others feel,
but that kind of gimmickry
never much appealed to me.

As for stylistic purism, in this case
it's no more than a pretext
under which to air some snobbery.

JDW

[Mark Stratford]

When Abbado was princpal of LSO in 1980s, he famously upset pianist
Rafael Orozco . During a Mozart concerto rehearsal Abbado asked RO
to play the cadenza (which was some mildly controversial one, I forget
which) and somehow the orchestra burst out laughing. The story went
that Abbado had engineered or at least encouraged the laughter - and
the end result was that the humiliated Orozco quickly learned a new
cadenza for the perormance.

mark

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Mark Stratford <mark_str...@yahoo.co.uk> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:8ace7afd-7dcd-4680-83fd-83971ba92b71
@ht6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

Some violinist should even the score (so to speak) with Abbado, by playing
the Joachim, Kreisler, or Schneiderhan cadenza to the Beethoven concerto in
rehearsal, but the Schnittke in the concert.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
"I don’t think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable
than left-wing social engineering. I don’t think imposing radical
change from the right or the left is a very good way for a free
society to operate. I think we need a national conversation to get
to a better Medicare system with more choices for seniors." Former
Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich on "Meet the Press" 15 May 2011
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

[J.Martin]

> Abbado may not be "known as a tyrant", but it is well known in the
> classical music "scene" that what Claudio wants, Claudio gets. He is
> more known to be sneaky in order to get his will than to say outright
> what he wants. When Karajan died, Solti jumped in an took over the
> summer festival in Salzburg and then assumed artistic leadership.
> Until Claudio had him gently pushed aside so he could take over
> himself.

It seems understandable, if not admirable, if Abbado would gently push
somebody aside to get his way on something like artistic leadership at
Salzburg. I suspect such manipulations are not uncommon among major
conductors when a desired position is at stake. But would he be
equally manipulative over something like a cadenza? Apparently... but
it stills seems very odd.

[rkhalona]

On Nov 1, 12:51 pm, O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> > > Not only is wolfgirl taking the correct path, she's far, far better
> > > looking than Abbado.
>
> > Now, Owen, that's just our particular point of view.
>
> I'd bet even the wolves would agree with me.  Especially the wolves in
> this newsgroup.
>
> -Owen

Which ones? The ones in sheep's clothing?

RK

[Sol L. Siegel]

"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Xns9F915C2B5A3...@216.168.3.70:

> Some violinist should even the score (so to speak) with Abbado, by
> playing the Joachim, Kreisler, or Schneiderhan cadenza to the
> Beethoven concerto in rehearsal, but the Schnittke in the concert.

It wouldn't work. All Abbado would have to do was respectfully
decline to cue the tympani.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[Sol L. Siegel]

"John Wiser" <cee...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:Ez1sq.11998$Cr1....@newsfe03.iad:

>> I guess no one considered releasing the CD with BOTH cadenzas,
>> allowing the listener to program whichever one they wanted to listen
>> to.
>
> I dunno how others feel,
> but that kind of gimmickry
> never much appealed to me.

Some years ago, Lars Vogt recorded the Beethoven PC1 with Glenn
Gould's cadenzas, coupled with 2. On the original release, though,
there was a bonus disc of the entire concerto, with Beethoven's
cadenzas. IIRC, it was the same recording except for the cadenzas.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

"Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:Xns9F91D98AA4E...@130.133.4.11:

That issue was supposedly issued only in Europe, but one turned up here
used. IIRC, Vogt used the longest of Beethoven cadenzas when I saw him
perform it with Sir Simon Rattle at the Hollywood Bowl fourteen years ago.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!

Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion

[O]

In article
<019b8e5c-63f1-426e...@a12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,

No. Those are really sheep.

-Owen, Baa!

[Steve de Mena]

On 11/2/11 8:08 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

Hey just got an Adobe Flash Player update popup. We were discussing
that in another thread.

Steve

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:OvidnSBw-sKj1y_T...@giganews.com:

Why should that be a surprise? You know how frequent they are.

[laraine]

It does seem odd, particularly because only the
soloist plays during the cadenza, not the
orchestra.

C.