Franz Welser-Möst To Conduct Vienna NYD Concert -1-1-11
mark
What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That
shows a bit more commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who
basically did a drop-in/drive-by last year.
I'd have to think that FWM will be the youngest conductor ever invited
to lead this prestigious concert.
In the meanwhile, I'm looking forward to today's concert with Georges
Prêtre. He was fabulous in 2008. Unfortunately, the concert doesn't
air until 9pm here in SoCal, and only on the LA PBS station. Our OC
station isn't even bothering with the concert til after the holiday.
Back in NYC, there were always two showings, one at 2:30 and one at 8
or 9.
Happy New Year to all.
Norman Schwartz
> Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>
> What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
> native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
> Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That
> shows a bit more commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who
> basically did a drop-in/drive-by last year.
>
> I'd have to think that FWM will be the youngest conductor ever invited
> to lead this prestigious concert.
>
> In the meanwhile, I'm looking forward to today's concert with Georges
> air until 9pm here in SoCal, and only on the LA PBS station. Our OC
> station isn't even bothering with the concert til after the holiday.
> Back in NYC, there were always two showings, one at 2:30 and one at 8
> or 9.
>
> Happy New Year to all.
wqxr.org.
mark
> mark wrote:
> > Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>
> > What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
> > native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
> > Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That
> > shows a bit more commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who
> > basically did a drop-in/drive-by last year.
>
> > I'd have to think that FWM will be the youngest conductor ever invited
> > to lead this prestigious concert.
>
> > In the meanwhile, I'm looking forward to today's concert with Georges
> > air until 9pm here in SoCal, and only on the LA PBS station. Our OC
> > station isn't even bothering with the concert til after the holiday.
> > Back in NYC, there were always two showings, one at 2:30 and one at 8
> > or 9.
>
> > Happy New Year to all.
>
> You could be listening to it right now, live at that "all Copland" station,
> wqxr.org.
Thanks for the head's up. I'm listening now.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
be typed in news:0208f58a-5447-447f-be33-
6fa8aa...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
> Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>
> What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
> native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the Cleveland
> Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That shows a bit more
> commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who basically did a
> drop-in/drive-by last year.
I think it could indeed be a natural fit.
> Happy New Year to all.
Happy 2010! And next year, we won't have to see people wearing those absurd
glasses any more.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
operafan
> In the meanwhile, I'm looking forward to today's concert with Georges
> Prêtre.
I'm watching it now. He's emoting while pretending to conduct. Either
the orchestra is doing as they please, or the hard work got done in
rehearsal so Pretre could make faces for the TV. Whichever it is, the
music just doesn't flow naturally the way it did when someone like
Carlos Kleiber was steering things.
mark
I loved Pretre in the 2008 version. Truth be told, almost every
classical music performance these days is worked out ahead of time
with the show being just that, the show. Unless Kna or some other "I
don't rehearse" conductor shows up, that's how it is.
I'm a big C Kleiber fan, but to be honest, I felt his tempi were
generally too fast in the two NYD appearances he made in Vienna.
Exciting in the moment, yes, but a little bit surface level on repeat
hearings. His NYD efforts are concerts I almost never return to when
I'm loading the CD player.
I realize I am a minority of one in this respect.
Yesterday, I watched Kleiber's Die Fledermaus from Bavaria on DG DVD.
That's a fun performance in many respects, though it almost comes off
the rails at a few points due to Kleiber's demands (and Wächter is
well past his prime, and Fassbänder is too butch by half etc. Still a
decent version of the warhorse.).
Gerard
> Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>
> What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
> native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
> Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director.
He also made a recording for EMI (with the London Philharmonic) with
compositions by Johann Strauss jr.
Maybe I will give it a (re)listen one of these days.
There is also a DVD of the operetta Simplicius by Johann Strauss jr.,
see:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/May03/strauss_simplicius.htm
mark
> mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> - Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:22:09 -0800 (PST):
>
> > What do you think of the choice?
>
>
> EM
Thanks for reminding us of the handle FWM's critics attached to him,
what, 20 years ago?
The man has certainly proved those critics wrong in the intervening
years. Time to discard such worthless shorthands.
SG
Three (or so) things:
1. Georges Pretre seemed to be ever so slightly/marginally less
compelling than two years ago. Just a tad less "on the edge," not AS
deeply personalized as 2008. Still the living owner/guardian of the
repertoire, he is.
2. Don't be tricked by the apparent effortlessness. This is not lack
of control, only long-ago-achieved control sublimated in Zeus-like
cordiality. His technique is better than perfect. The fact that he
doesn't do anything blatantly unnecessary doesn't mean he doesn't do
what is needed and then some. When somebody like Pretre "lets things
happen," things don't just happen at random. Take my word for it... or
don't.
3. F W-M is a good 2011 choice I think, given the slim pickin' of the
younger generations. I've heard him in the Viennese style repertoire
already and liked his way of doing it. Warmth, good rubato, nice
phrasing. No Pretre (yet?...) but no chopped liver either. If he can
do it with his American orchestra he can do it with WP, too.
Happy New Year!
SG
PS Julie Andrews looks fantastic for her age, God bless her - an
epitome of elegance. Goodness, speak of aging well.
The fairy tale-like European pastry shown on TV as background for
Wiener Bonbons oscillated between enticing and sadistic. Make that
sadistic. Enjoy your cheesecake now.
Andrew Clarke
Watch Carlos Kleiber conduct the Fledermaus overture in the Bavarian
DVD recording mentioned elsewhere. Kleiber conductw when he feels he
needs to, otherwise he lets the orchestra - who knmow the work
backwards - get on with it.
Pretre seems to be of the same mind - sometimes he conducts, sometimes
he gestures, sometimes he emotes. For some pieces he uses a baton, for
others he doesn't. As for rehearsing, the interval film shows him
rehearsing the young man with the cuckoo pipe used in the Krappwalderl
Polka.
There were two delicious ironies in a program where a Frenchman
conducts a Viennese orchestra. The first was a French composer's
overture about the nymphs of the Rhine (Offenbach - Der Reinnixen) and
the second was a Viennese composer's tribute to a Frenchman's comic
opera (Eduard Strauss - Quadrilles on La belle Helene).
Did anyone else find a certain facial resemblence between Georges
pretre and the late Ibrahim Ferrer of Buena Vista Social Club fame?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Thornhill
> Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>
> What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
> native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
> Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That
> shows a bit more commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who
> basically did a drop-in/drive-by last year.
I'm not trying to be mean spirited, but does it really matter who is
conducting these concerts? I imagine that after all of these years the
VPO can play the music in their sleep. And we're talking about Strauss
waltzes and polkas, not Bruckner or Mahler symphonies.
wagnerfan
Oh some conductors do bring out something special - Carlos Kleiber was
one for sure
Wagner Fan
mark
Yes it does. Last year's concert under Barenboim was decidedly subpar,
IMO. I don't know anyone who liked it (cue the people who liked it).
Conducting Strauss waltzes - and Puccini operas, for that matter - is
a lot harder than conducting Bruckner of Mahler symphonies. It matters
not if the orchestra knows the pieces in their sleep, because a bad
conductor can give them nightmares when it comes to these things (cue
the tape from Barenboim's go around last year).
If you think the conductor is irrelevant in the Strauss waltzes and
polkas, do an A/B or A/B/C/D comparison of these pieces performed
under different maestri at these concerts. The interpretive variety is
glaring. Anyone who thinks the conductor is just following the
orchestra has if backwards.
a_a_a
> Yes it does. Last year's concert under Barenboim was decidedly subpar,
> IMO. I don't know anyone who liked it (cue the people who liked it).
I did. It was refreshing to hear a different style.
mark
I thought it was fussy and forced with Danny mugging way too much for
my taste. No, I didn't buy the DVD for that one.
TareeDawg
>
> Three (or so) things:
>
> 1. Georges Pretre seemed to be ever so slightly/marginally less
> compelling than two years ago. Just a tad less "on the edge," not AS
> deeply personalized as 2008. Still the living owner/guardian of the
> repertoire, he is.
I still maintain that Pretre's Harold in Italy is one of the best I have
heard. Reference for me. One of the most compelling Orgys I have ever
heard, and the Monk movement is actually quite funny ... they pause, and
then proceed ... pause, and then proceed ... quite uniquely done.
Ray Hall, Taree
M forever
> On Jan 1, 10:43 pm, Thornhill <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 1, 10:22 am, mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>
> > > What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
> > > native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
> > > Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That
> > > shows a bit more commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who
> > > basically did a drop-in/drive-by last year.
>
> > I'm not trying to be mean spirited, but does it really matter who is
> > conducting these concerts? I imagine that after all of these years the
> > VPO can play the music in their sleep. And we're talking about Strauss
> > waltzes and polkas, not Bruckner or Mahler symphonies.
>
> Yes it does. Last year's concert under Barenboim was decidedly subpar,
> IMO. I don't know anyone who liked it (cue the people who liked it).
>
> Conducting Strauss waltzes - and Puccini operas, for that matter - is
> a lot harder than conducting Bruckner of Mahler symphonies. It matters
> not if the orchestra knows the pieces in their sleep, because a bad
> conductor can give them nightmares when it comes to these things (cue
> the tape from Barenboim's go around last year).
Nonsense. And one of these stupid clichés people repeat over and over
again because they think it makes them appear like they have special
insights. I am disappointed to read that kind of BS from you, frankly,
next to all the fairly interesting posts you write. Many kinds of
music are equally difficult (or easy, depending on the point of view)
to play/conduct. And while the Strauss stuff can have lots of very
fine nuances, most of these do play themselves if the musicians are at
ease with the idiom.
The conductor can still make a noticeable difference with an orchestra
like the WP exactly because they play the music so easy and
effortlessly "in their sleep" because that allows them to react to any
nuance the conductor indicates (or not).
I agree, BTW, that the Barenboim concert was not a great event. He is
just too wooden and too serious (or let's say, too impressed by his
own seriousness) to do that kind of thing. But it wasn't such a big
"disaster" either.
Still, fine nuances matter in Bruckner and Mahler, too, and there are
many additional layers and a much bigger context, so it is total
nonsense to say that Strauss is much harder to conduct than these two,
or other "big" composers. It's just a silly cliché.
> If you think the conductor is irrelevant in the Strauss waltzes and
> polkas, do an A/B or A/B/C/D comparison of these pieces performed
> under different maestri at these concerts. The interpretive variety is
> glaring. Anyone who thinks the conductor is just following the
> orchestra has if backwards.
It's not really the exact opposite either. It's an interplay between
orchestra and conductor. That may be a little hard for people to
really understand though who haven't grown up in that kind of musical
culture, so there is no point in me trying to explain that.
It is true though that the variety of styles or stylistic nuances (and
in some cases, lack thereof) in the NYD concerts has been quite wide.
I think Pretre did a fairly nice job, although the constant senile
grinning got on my nerves. He did show some nice nuances, but not as
many as he acted. Not all his gestures and grimaces really transported
to the orchestra. His influence was more noticeable in he somewhat
exaggerated tempo fluctuations in some pieces.
In that respect, he is definitely nowhere near the fleetly flowing,
but infinitely more nuanced and naturally inflected style in which
Kleiber conducted (I know from your other posts that you didn't get
that, but maybe you will some day), the elegantly refined nostagically
golden glow of Karajan's concert, or the robust grooviness and
Viennese inflections of Harnoncourt's (I know you didn't get that
either, but maybe that will come some day, too).
jrsnfld
Just listened again to FWM/Cleveland in the Emperor Waltz. Not bad at
all; not wooden, not too heavy or fussy and shaped here and there to
remind us that nothing is automatic. I think he's a logical, and given
that this is his home territory (and he conducts a lot of Strauss et
al. in Cleveland too) it should be an excellent concert.
--Jeff
jrsnfld
>
> 3. F W-M is a good 2011 choice I think, given the slim pickin' of the
> younger generations.
Manfred Honeck would also be a natural choice. I wonder if Thielemann
does this stuff too--I'm not sure whether he'd be good at it or not,
my guess is that he'd be fine.
Mariss Jansons also does well with Viennese waltzes...has he ever done
the New Year's Concert? And what about Fabio Luisi?
--Jeff
Gerard
> mark <markst...@yahoo.com> - Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:48:55 -0800 (PST):
>
> > > Frankly worse than most? ;-)
>
> > what, 20 years ago?
>
>
Yes; a clich�.
Gerard
>
> The fairy tale-like European pastry shown on TV as background for
> Wiener Bonbons oscillated between enticing and sadistic. Make that
> sadistic.
It was nothing compared to Pennebaker's film "Kings of pastry" (which happened
to be broadcasted here last week).
jrsnfld
> EM wrote:
> > mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> - Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:48:55 -0800 (PST):
I'd call it a prejudice. I suspect at least two-thirds of the people
repeating this epithet in rmcr have not heard FWM conduct anything.
-Jeff
M forever
Jansons did the NYD concert once. I don't think Luisi or Honeck have
ever appeared with the the WP (Honeck has, but not as conductor), at
least not in the Musikverein (I looked that up on their website). The
point is not to find someone who maybe knows a few waltzes, but
someone who has a (more or less) long relationship with the orchestra
- and who can do waltzes nicely on top of that. As there are fewer and
fewer of both categories, it may get a little bit more difficult.
M forever
> mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> - Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:48:55 -0800 (PST):
>
> > what, 20 years ago?
>
>
Wherever "here" is, apparently it is a place where silly, stale puns
are more highly valued than serious music criticism, so frankly, who
gives a shit what you think and pun about?
td
Really? You think so? I am quite amazed.
TD
td
Yawn.
TD
td
The thing about cliches is that they usually turn out to be right on
the money!
TD
td
For support one could always cite the decade of reviews by the
Cleveland critic recently silenced by the CO and the owners of his
newspaper(who are also on the board of the CO).
TD
M forever
> M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> - Sat, 2 Jan 2010 01:31:20 -0800 (PST):
>
> > Wherever "here" is, apparently it is a place where silly, stale puns
> > are more highly valued than serious music criticism, so frankly, who
> > gives a shit what you think and pun about?
>
> but do you think? If yes, try to figure out the meaning of a ;-).
> Your shrink may be interested in your obsession with faeces. He may
> also like to know what else you [ try to] think. I do not.
> Have a good 2010.
>
> EM
Repeating an old and totally lame pun is your idea of "thinking"?
Seriously?
Can you get any lamer?
Yes, you can!
Silly "talk to your shrink" jokes...
Apparently you *think* that you are incredibly witty. Well, at least
you do think *something*, even though the brain activity is apparently
not very high.
M forever
Sorry to bore you. I can understand this bores you though. When people
talk about musical performing styles, that must go totally over your
head.
Of course, all of the above is beyond comprehension anyway for someone
who can't even tell the Wiener Philharmoniker apart from other
orchestras with equally characteristic playing styles.
In other words, you.
How then could you perceive and judge the finer nuances of what and
how they are playing? That is obviously way beyond your musical
understanding.
Well, you can't even tell two recordings "apart" when they are exactly
the same but you *think* you listen to two different recordings.
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
M forever
I can see that. You must be amazed that some people actually form
their own opinions, not just parrot whatever some critics say and
garnish that with some pseudo-witty blablabla.
Since you are such a big admirer of Réné Köhler, how would you compare
Köhler and Welser-Möst?
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
M forever
Only for people with as simplistic a world view as yours in general
and a lack of understanding for musical styles in particular. All
your..."opinions" are just recycled clichés. That is why it is so
immediately obvious that you are just a bullshitter.
td
Thank you for the apology. But I do not accept it, as it is less than
sincere. Just the same old blow-hard nonsense dished out in endless
unidiomatic English one has to wade through in order to discern your
thinking, if that indeed is what it is.
TD
td
> On Jan 2, 6:56 am, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 1, 7:48 pm, mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 1, 2:17 pm, EM <emmemmmemnmme...@gnail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> - Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:22:09 -0800 (PST):
>
> > > > > What do you think of the choice?
>
> > > > Frankly worse than most? ;-)
>
> > > > EM
>
> > > Thanks for reminding us of the handle FWM's critics attached to him,
> > > what, 20 years ago?
>
> > > The man has certainly proved those critics wrong in the intervening
> > > years. Time to discard such worthless shorthands.
>
> > Really? You think so? I am quite amazed.
>
> > TD
>
> I can see that. You must be amazed that some people actually form
> their own opinions, not just parrot whatever some critics say and
> garnish that with some pseudo-witty blablabla.
Not amazed, just appalled, as they form their own opinions based on
garbage facts and little intellectual activity. e.g. your charming
self.
TD
td
The thing about bullshit is that it prevails, packs a powerful impact
and is hard to get rid of. Some use it as fertilizer in my part of the
country and then spread it on the fields to make things grow better.
You can always tell when that happens.
It is different, of course, with piss, which is why your eblutions are
so useless in the end.
TD
Steve de Mena
> On Jan 2, 3:54 am, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> 3. F W-M is a good 2011 choice I think, given the slim pickin' of the
>>> younger generations.
>> Manfred Honeck would also be a natural choice. I wonder if Thielemann
>> does this stuff too--I'm not sure whether he'd be good at it or not,
>> my guess is that he'd be fine.
>>
>> Mariss Jansons also does well with Viennese waltzes...has he ever done
>> the New Year's Concert? And what about Fabio Luisi?
>
> Jansons did the NYD concert once. I don't think Luisi or Honeck have
> ever appeared with the the WP (Honeck has, but not as conductor), at
> least not in the Musikverein (I looked that up on their website). The
> point is not to find someone who maybe knows a few waltzes, but
> someone who has a (more or less) long relationship with the orchestra
I understand Pretre has conducted the Vienna Philharmonic for many
years (according to the VPO website) but has he made any recordings
with them, besides the NYD concerts? I thought he usually appeared
with the Vienna Symphony.
Steve
td
Enough of this, Steve. Where is your report on the London used CD
scene? I am waiting for it, certainly much more than arguments about
the worth of Frankly Worse than Most!
TD
Steve de Mena
> I'd have to think that FWM will be the youngest conductor ever invited
> to lead this prestigious concert.
Clemens Krauss was younger the first time he conducted (46, in 1939).
As was Josef Krips in 1946 (age 42). ... and Willi Boskovsky in
1955 (age 46).
Welser-M�st will be 50 in August.
Steve
Steve de Mena
I canceled my trip - my flight to the UK, which went through
Washington D.C. the day of the big snow storms, was canceled, and
there were no alternatives for 3 days. Weather seemed colder than
usual in London so figured it was best to go another time.
I think I have the Strauss waltz CD FWM made with the LPO... if I
recall I played it once and hated it. Must dig it up again and give
it a thorough listen.
Steve
jrsnfld
True. That's a good reason to think Honeck will be asked sooner rather
than later, and maybe Thielemann, too.
--Jeff
Bob Harper
> On Jan 1, 10:43 pm, Thornhill <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 1, 10:22 am, mark <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Saw the announcement at the VPO site.
>>> What do you think of the choice? I think it could be very good. He's a
>>> native Austrian who has been programming these bon-bons with the
>>> Cleveland Orchestra during his tenure as their music director. That
>>> shows a bit more commitment to the rep than a guy like Barenboim who
>>> basically did a drop-in/drive-by last year.
>> I'm not trying to be mean spirited, but does it really matter who is
>> conducting these concerts? I imagine that after all of these years the
>> VPO can play the music in their sleep. And we're talking about Strauss
>> waltzes and polkas, not Bruckner or Mahler symphonies.
>
> Yes it does. Last year's concert under Barenboim was decidedly subpar,
> IMO. I don't know anyone who liked it (cue the people who liked it).
>
> Conducting Strauss waltzes - and Puccini operas, for that matter - is
> a lot harder than conducting Bruckner of Mahler symphonies. It matters
> not if the orchestra knows the pieces in their sleep, because a bad
> conductor can give them nightmares when it comes to these things (cue
> the tape from Barenboim's go around last year).
>
> polkas, do an A/B or A/B/C/D comparison of these pieces performed
> under different maestri at these concerts. The interpretive variety is
> glaring. Anyone who thinks the conductor is just following the
> orchestra has if backwards.
Amen. There is as much difference between a good and bad performance of
a Strauss waltz as there is between a good and bad performance of the
Bruckner 8. And it's harder to hide in Strauss.
Bob Harper
M forever
Good insights. That may be the only insight your cultural background
has had to offer for you. And that's what I have been saying all
along. You did apparently figure out at some point that you can get
pretty far by just bullshitting your way through, and it seems to have
worked out OK for you. Great!
That still makes you a blowhard ignorant and it makes your
contributions about music here superfluous and only very, very mildly
entertaining. But not in the way you intend them to be. More in the
way of how you involuntarily end up with egg on your face every time
you try to say something with more substance.
M forever
Ah, that is your formula: garbage facts and little intellectual
activity. Yes, that makes sense. A little anecdotal knowledge. Some
superficial facts snapped up here and there. When it comes to history
and politics, just a few clichés and generalizations you picked up
from newspaper articles. Lame puns and pseudo-witty lines. No
substance which suggests you have any in-depth knowledge and
understanding of these things. Certainly not of music.
No original views either. Your views are just meant to be somehow non-
mainstream so you can chaste other opinions for being too
conventional. One of the oldest and lamest tricks in the book. But
apparently, you can't do any better.
td
The only substance you would recognize is what you excrete in the
smallest room in your house. What disturbs us is that you then fish it
out and recycle it here.
I have heard of people going green, but this is carrying things to a
stinking extreme.
Please cease and desist. Just cinch in your sphincter and hold it in
for as long as you can. The world doesn't really need any more of your
crap.
Alternatively, you could simply stop eating completely, thus avoiding
the trip to the small room at all, and leading to your early demise.
Choose your poison.
TD
M forever
Hey, we can always converse in my language, the language of most of
the great composers - oh wait, no, you don't understand German, so
that's not an option. That's pretty obvious from your complete lack of
understanding and first-hand insights into our culture and history.
Well, that world is too far from the bullshit-covered fields of your
provincial home area anyway.
I am happy to see that my post hit the mark fully though. Especially
when I asked you to to compare Köhler and Wesler-Möst, you could feel
all that egg on your face again.
It is easy to tell when a post really hits the mark with you. You are
very transparent. When you start your lame and feeble attempts to
insult and hurt people by making nasty nationalistic remarks or
commenting about their command of English or something similar. Of
course, this totally bounces off me since I am so vastly more
proficient in your language than you are in mine, and it makes you
look even more like an idiot that you try these put-downs over and
over again.
I used to think you were some fairly hollow, but still somewhat smart
bullshitter who knows what he is doing and saying but you come across
more and more as just lame, empty, and somewhat senile.
td
Wrong, in fact. But I won't belabour the point here. More signs of
your ignorance.
That's pretty obvious from your complete lack of
> understanding and first-hand insights into our culture and history.
Oh, you mean my refusal to accept Germany as the centre of Kultur?
HA HA HA HA HA
The master-race. I see. We are back at the Aryan nation again.
> I am happy to see that my post hit the mark fully though.
You couldn't hit a barn door if you were sitting on it.
Especially
> when I asked you to to compare Köhler and Wesler-Möst, you could feel
> all that egg on your face again.
Oh, I AM sorry. I must have missed that treatise. I usually just skip
to the bottom of your posts. The middle is pure German dumpling.
> It is easy to tell when a post really hits the mark with you.
Unless you're blind, of course, which in your case makes it very
tricky.
You are
> very transparent.
I certainly hope so. It's far better to be transparent than turgid.
When you start your lame and feeble attempts to
> insult and hurt people by making nasty nationalistic remarks or
> commenting about their command of English or something similar.
So sorry it offends you. But I have a natural proprietary interest in
my own language. I am sure you have the same feeling about yours.
Of
> course, this totally bounces off me since I am so vastly more
> proficient in your language than you are in mine,
This may well be. But of that you have no proof whatsoever. whereas,
in your case we have your endless turgid posts. The thought processes
of a German tank would be more subtle, if in the same tedious style.
and it makes you
> look even more like an idiot that you try these put-downs over and
> over again.
Put downs? Do you feel put-down? Oh, what a pity! Poor little boy.
> I used to think you were some fairly hollow, but still somewhat smart
> bullshitter who knows what he is doing and saying but you come across
> more and more as just lame, empty, and somewhat senile.
All that to insult someone? So many words? But why?
Asshole is so much easier.
TD
M forever
> > > Thank you for the apology. But I do not accept it, as it is less than
> > > sincere. Just the same old blow-hard nonsense dished out in endless
> > > unidiomatic English one has to wade through in order to discern your
> > > thinking, if that indeed is what it is.
>
> > Hey, we can always converse in my language, the language of most of
> > the great composers - oh wait, no, you don't understand German, so
> > that's not an option.
>
> Wrong, in fact. But I won't belabour the point here. More signs of
> your ignorance.
You don't have to "belabour" the point. You could just prove me wrong
by repeating in German which is better than my English.
Unfortunately, google translate doesn't work that well!
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> That's pretty obvious from your complete lack of
>
> > understanding and first-hand insights into our culture and history.
>
> Oh, you mean my refusal to accept Germany as the centre of Kultur?
No, that's not what I said at all. Do you have problem understanding
English, too?
> The master-race. I see. We are back at the Aryan nation again.
Ah, you have run out of other material, so you have to fall back on
that again.
> > I am happy to see that my post hit the mark fully though.
>
> You couldn't hit a barn door if you were sitting on it.
No, I hit the mark fully. Your desperate reversal to Nazi insults
shows this very clearly. You are hurt and out of material, so you
start throwing these insults around again. We have seen that behavior
many times before. I got you, old man, and you are shitting yourself
with rage.
> Especially
>
> > when I asked you to to compare Köhler and Wesler-Möst, you could feel
> > all that egg on your face again.
>
> Oh, I AM sorry. I must have missed that treatise. I usually just skip
> to the bottom of your posts. The middle is pure German dumpling.
German dumpling! Oh, how witty. How very, very witty!
Of course, you did not "miss" any part of my "treatise". That's not a
"treatise" anyway, it's a question.
And one to which you have no answer. And I am sure many here would be
interested in your expert analysis of the differences between Köhler
and Welser-Möst.
> > It is easy to tell when a post really hits the mark with you.
>
> Unless you're blind, of course, which in your case makes it very
> tricky.
>
> You are
>
> > very transparent.
>
> I certainly hope so. It's far better to be transparent than turgid.
>
> When you start your lame and feeble attempts to
>
> > insult and hurt people by making nasty nationalistic remarks or
> > commenting about their command of English or something similar.
>
> So sorry it offends you. But I have a natural proprietary interest in
> my own language. I am sure you have the same feeling about yours.
No. I think it's great when people form other countries try to learn
German. It's far more difficult than English, so very few foreigners
ever learn to speak it even reasonably well. But anybody who tries and
shows interest is welcome and I encourage them.
It would never occur to me to try to make fun of somebody who speaks
my own language proficiently, even if not perfectly. Especially if I
don't know his.
That is something that would only occur to a sorry lame duck like you.
> Of
>
> > course, this totally bounces off me since I am so vastly more
> > proficient in your language than you are in mine,
>
> This may well be. But of that you have no proof whatsoever. whereas,
> in your case we have your endless turgid posts. The thought processes
> of a German tank would be more subtle, if in the same tedious style.
So you think your brief pseudo-witty BS contributions are actually
examples for good, concentrated, eloquent English!
Wow, that is hilarious! Your puns and pseudo-witticisms are totally
lame and not even particularly good for a native speaker. The
Pakistani guy at the 24h store down at the corner comes up with more
original puns than you do.
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
And I didn't just type "HAHAHA"- I actually really laughed so hard
that my right eye almost popped.
> and it makes you
>
> > look even more like an idiot that you try these put-downs over and
> > over again.
>
> Put downs? Do you feel put-down? Oh, what a pity! Poor little boy.
Ah, yes, the "poor little boy" or "poor mongrel" material.
You do really seem to have some very fundamental problems with
English. For instance with hyphenation in the line just above mine.
And with basic understanding. I say your attempts at put-downs are
lame and you ask me if I actually feel put down. Seriously, I know you
guys don't have a language of your own, but I thought English, or some
form of English was your substitute for that. And you pride yourself
to be the master of witticisms - and then you don't even understand
some basic sentences like these?
> > I used to think you were some fairly hollow, but still somewhat smart
> > bullshitter who knows what he is doing and saying but you come across
> > more and more as just lame, empty, and somewhat senile.
>
> All that to insult someone? So many words? But why?
Because it's so much fun to deconstruct you piece by piece. Everything
you say is silly and hollow but so much fun to shoot down because you
actually think you are witty and original.
> Asshole is so much easier.
True - if you were *just* an asshole. But you are so much more
negative things, such a big inflated bag of shit that it would simply
not be appropriate to just call you an "asshole". It would also be
offensive to actual assholes. It is much more fun to take you apart
piece by piece.
M forever
Like in this case in which I just replied to you? So you actually call
your own material shit?
> I have heard of people going green, but this is carrying things to a
> stinking extreme.
That probably happens now and then in your environment, especially
when the nurses forget to change their diapers. Has that happened to
you, too? I bet it has. I guess that's when you write your crankiest
posts, when you sit there in your own shit, helpless, hating the
world.
> Please cease and desist. Just cinch in your sphincter and hold it in
> for as long as you can. The world doesn't really need any more of your
> crap.
Oh, great, I just learned a new word. "Sphincter". I didn't know that
word and had to look it up. You seem to be an expert on the retention
of fecal matter. I guess one has to be, at your age. so is that what
you have to do when the nurse forgets to change your diapers? That
sounds pretty awful. No wonder you are so miserable!
> Alternatively, you could simply stop eating completely, thus avoiding
> the trip to the small room at all, and leading to your early demise.
> Choose your poison.
I choose another option: I will just continue to make fun of you. You
are such a rewarding target. To think that somebody who claims to have
so much experience in the music business has so little to say about
the subject, exposes his ignorance all the time and is so easy to
reduce to a small, handy size is pretty astonishing.
td
Is that all?
Are you finished?
Have you reached the end of your personal insults?
Because we are still waiting for your musical insights, which have
been sorely lacking of late. Indeed, for ever.
TD
td
Soooooooo tedious.
Carry on. I feel sure you will have exhausted the patience of most
members of this forum a very long time ago.
TD
M forever
> On Jan 2, 4:24 pm, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 2, 3:53 pm, td <tomdedea...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > All that to insult someone? So many words? But why?
>
> > Because it's so much fun to deconstruct you piece by piece. Everything
> > you say is silly and hollow but so much fun to shoot down because you
> > actually think you are witty and original.
>
> > > Asshole is so much easier.
>
> > True - if you were *just* an asshole. But you are so much more
> > negative things, such a big inflated bag of shit that it would simply
> > not be appropriate to just call you an "asshole". It would also be
> > offensive to actual assholes. It is much more fun to take you apart
> > piece by piece
>
> Is that all?
>
> Are you finished?
>
> Have you reached the end of your personal insults?
I can see you are ready to give up and piss off with your tail between
your legs. For now, I think I have shredded you enough. I am sure you
will provide me with more material soon though. I don't think you can
help it.
> Because we are still waiting for your musical insights, which have
> been sorely lacking of late. Indeed, for ever.
Ahahahahaha, how witty. Ahahahahaha, how very, very witty! Wow!!
But, tell us, how would *you* know? If I posted under the pseudonym
"Réné Köhler", then you would think everything I say is really
brilliant!
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"