Kissin / Beethoven

[Tony]

Has anyone heard Kissin's latest release with the Beethoven Sonatas? I've listened to the Moonlight a few times and it's great, really intense and gripping. I underestimated him, didn't expect such a fabulous performance. Be warned that it--and I think one other recording in the set--was recorded from the audience. Still sounds pretty good though.

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Saturday, October 7, 2017 at 4:17:48 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
> Has anyone heard Kissin's latest release with the Beethoven Sonatas? I've listened to the Moonlight a few times and it's great, really intense and gripping. I underestimated him, didn't expect such a fabulous performance. Be warned that it--and I think one other recording in the set--was recorded from the audience. Still sounds pretty good though.

"... recorded from the audience."? You mean bootleg? Or an official release that was recorded from the audience? I'm confused. Sorry to be dense.

MIFrost

[Tony]

No it's me I didn't explain it clearly. It (the Moonlight and I think one other work) was recorded from the audience, approved and authorised by Kissin, and released by DG. Yes, it's a bootleg. DG now releases bootlegs.

[operafan]

On Saturday, October 7, 2017 at 4:29:44 PM UTC-4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

> "... recorded from the audience."? You mean bootleg? Or an official release that was recorded from the audience? I'm confused. Sorry to be dense.

This recording is issued by DG. "Live from the audience" means the sonatas were recorded in concert with an audience, not in an empty studio.

[Tony]

On Sunday, 8 October 2017 00:10:34 UTC+3, operafan wrote:
>
> This recording is issued by DG. "Live from the audience" means the sonatas were recorded in concert with an audience, not in an empty studio.

No, it means that it's a bootleg. Professional recordings are not 'from the audience'. The mics are on the stage.

[mo...@cloud9.net]

Where can I read it in the original German, which might clear up the matter?

Mort Linder

[RiRiIII]

Here is a picture of the section from the booklet:

https://s1.postimg.org/8i4ygl9opb/KISSIN_1.jpg

The NY and Amsterdam recordings are referred to as "private recordings", while the remaining ones are or seem professional recordings. Funny, DG to accept bootlegers to make CDs.

[Herman]

Odd that in the case of the Amsterdam recording the organiser of the concert and the piano tuner are credited. Obviously the Carnegie Hall concert was organised by an impresario too, and somebody checked the piano. This almost seems to imply Riaskoff (the Amsterdam impresario) was involved in this "private taping" in some way.

[Tony]

On Monday, 9 October 2017 10:48:46 UTC+3, Herman wrote:
> Odd that in the case of the Amsterdam recording the organiser of the concert and the piano tuner are credited. Obviously the Carnegie Hall concert was organised by an impresario too, and somebody checked the piano. This almost seems to imply Riaskoff (the Amsterdam impresario) was involved in this "private taping" in some way.

Well I'm sure there are some people online who could answer these questions. The network of bootleggers--from my outside experience--appears quite tight and is pretty deep (as in number of recordings).

I think there's no question that the number of great bootlegged recordings far far far exceeds the number of great commercial / studio releases, though I couldn't' put numbers on them.

I mentioned this kind of in passing as the Kissin performance is wonderful regardless of how it was captured.

Nonetheless I won't fail to use it as more evidence of DG's abysmal decline in quality. We need the Bitcoin equivalent of capture and online distribution to rid the world of this faux-aristocratic company.

[Frank Lekens]

Tony schreef op 9-10-2017 15:13:

I don't see anything in the posted picture from the booklet to indicate
they're actually bootleg recordings in the sense of someone sitting in
the audience with a recording device. It's possible, but it's equally
possible that a concert hall like Concertgebouw has equipment installed
to potentially record everything -- mikes not (immediately) visible.
That way, those performers that want to can record their recitals for
their own purposes (or explicitly forbid the hall to do anything of the
sort, as I'm sure Zimerman would :-).

As this URL (and the annual financial report, also available online)
also suggests, equipment for this is constantly present:
https://www.concertgebouw.nl/zakelijk/feest/techniek

I'd assume all you have to do is switch it on to get at least a
tolerable recording.
Maybe it produces recordings of lower quality than when the tv or radio
broadcasters come in to record a specific concert. Then again, the
difference (between high end professional equipment and smaller scale
equipment) is probably smaller than it was 40 years ago.

I suspect Riaskoff records everything (unless told not to) -- also to
produce those cd's they now routinely send to subscribers to the whole
series, containing a selected recital from the previous year.

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

[Tony]

I haven't listened to the Amsterdam recording, but I can tell you that IMO the NY one is clearly a bootleg made from the audience. It has that slightly distant quality and occasional ruffle / rumble which isn't like what you get from the professional mics on stage. The equipment that you linked to and mentioned at the Concertgebouw -- if they were to use that, it would be professional quality. The NY one is not professional quality. I have heard some audience bootlegs which are amazing and seem like they're even better than professional mics on stage, but the NY recording isn't one of them.

[Tony]

On Monday, 9 October 2017 16:28:32 UTC+3, Frank Lekens wrote:
>

> I suspect Riaskoff records everything (unless told not to) -- also to
> produce those cd's they now routinely send to subscribers to the whole
> series, containing a selected recital from the previous year.

That's very interesting. Have you got any gems from those?

[Tony]

On Monday, 9 October 2017 16:28:32 UTC+3, Frank Lekens wrote:
>

> I don't see anything in the posted picture from the booklet to indicate
> they're actually bootleg recordings in the sense of someone sitting in
> the audience with a recording device.

Well it's not like they're going to actually admit that they're using an audience bootleg.

[Frank Berger]

Tony, it would help if you would clarify your comments. In
your initial post, you were speculating about one or two
item being recorded from the audience. Your second post
sounded like you knew that to be the case from some official
source or something. Now you are back to speculation
(drawing a conclusion based on the sound). The apparent
inconsistency is confusing people.

[Tony]

On Monday, 9 October 2017 17:36:35 UTC+3, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Tony, it would help if you would clarify your comments. In
> your initial post, you were speculating about one or two
> item being recorded from the audience. Your second post
> sounded like you knew that to be the case from some official
> source or something. Now you are back to speculation
> (drawing a conclusion based on the sound). The apparent
> inconsistency is confusing people.

Apologies for that. Yes I heard from someone who tends to know these things that they are from the audience. I also feel I could detect it myself (Moonlight). I don't think that's speculation -- I think I could tell if I hadn't already heard about it, but I'll never know that for sure because I already knew beforehand.

Listen to the Moonlight -- that is not a professional recording. It's a wonderful performance, very deep and grinding and emotional if you ask me. That's the kind of stuff we want regardless of how it was captured. DG of course would never admit to using audience bootlegs and then charging people to hear them.

[Bozo]

Interesting, Sony released on 9/1/17 some of Kissin's apparently 1998 RCA/BMG Beethoven recordings, including " Moonlight" you can hear here , free, entire cd , apparently posted to YouTube by Sony :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ou8kmAJmu8&list=PLvcGu_Lqbw5zq7CJtUygkvMGL3wwqgNrN

[RiRiIII]

Agreed. Moonlight's ***audio**** quality is below any acceptable standards of any label. Period. Now,charging for it is beyond belief. Unethical. Why not record professionally such great artists in concert? We know the answer. They minimize their risks and we pay the price. They could offer it as download to the purchasers, since it really is such a wonderful performance. This is not a good sign for the future of the recordings industry in terms of quality for sure. Pity for Kissin also who obviously does not give a damn.

[Tony]

On Monday, 9 October 2017 20:04:43 UTC+3, RiRiIII wrote:
>
> Agreed. Moonlight's ***audio**** quality is below any acceptable standards of any label.

Yes. Notice how DG try to absolve themselves by saying that the recordings were handpicked / selected by the artist himself. As if that's ever not the case.

This is why I was so annoyed that Sokolov joined these white-collared cowboys. An already successful musician--who for all intents and purposes does not fit into convention with his resolute programming and insistence on live recordings--he was unlikely to benefit artistically by merging into a racket which, understandably, puts the buck first. I feel there was a hard-to-forget missed opportunity to combine his unique and rather outsider style with an independent, forward-looking platform.

[mo...@cloud9.net]

Hi,

Thanks so much for your post. I have heard that in New York City there are many private recordists that do a commendable job of in-house recording for their own private pleasure. That is important, inasmuch as copies of official hall recordings in N.Y.C. are almost impossible to come by. Many of Svetik's (Sviatoslav Richter's) recordings are sourced privately as well.

Good listening,

Mort

[Frank Lekens]

Tony schreef op 9-10-2017 16:30:

I did, I think I passed them on to a friend.