2013 Aix Elektra dir. by Chereau

[Willem Orange]

Patrice Chereau always has interesting things to show us about relationships and his new Elektra at Aix is no exception. He has assembled a wonderful cast of singing actors =- when you have Waltraud Meier singing Klytemnestra you know you won't be bored - also Herlitzius is Elektra and there are some old timers - Franz Mazura and Donald McIntyre along with Roberta Alexander all wonderful to see. It can be seen until July 27 at

http://we.tl/vfPVaoRfFk
http://we.tl/FRsDrH0bPS
and also has been uploaded to a number of sites. Worth seeing. Wagner fan

[Lionel Tacchini]

I understand about half of what the shouters produce. Very frustrating.

--
Lionel Tacchini
"Ach, Du lieber Augustin, alles ist hin ..."

[Willem Orange]

Familiarizing yourself with the text beforehand could possibly help. Wagner fan

[Christopher Webber]

On 22/07/2013 20:48, Willem Orange wrote:
> Familiarizing yourself with the text beforehand could possibly help.

You need to do that with 'Elektra', but not it seems 'Rigoletto'? I'm
curious as to why you apparently place Piave/Verdi below
Hofmannsthal/Strauss?

[Willem Orange]

Christopher - really. I value your many opinions but I think we are so far apart on the issue of opera direction that, as I already, stated I have neither the energy nor the inclination to persue it further. Just mark it up to economy of effort since experience shows neither party changes their minds and it becomes an exercise in frustration - so lets just agree to let it go???? best Wagner Fan

[Lionel Tacchini]

Yes, of course, but I always regret the lack of intelligibility inherent
to that kind of singing and know by experience that being there in the
front row doesn't even solve the problem.

At least we had subtitles this time. Thanks for sharing, it was an
impressive one.

[Willem Orange]

I wonder if the lack of intelligibility in the repertory is a modern problem or do you think it was better back closer to Strauss own time. I know I have a recording of Schluter singing Elektra from the 40s - the voice could be ugly but I don't recall if the words came through clearly. Or is just that the roles are so diffcult technically that the words sometimes hit the skids in an effort just to get the tone out.
As for Chereau I find him always fascinating. I saw his Ring at Bayreuth three times and it was incredibly moving and illuminating. He had a great cast working with him at that time also. best Wagner fan

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 22.07.2013 22:23, Willem Orange wrote:
> On Monday, July 22, 2013 4:12:41 PM UTC-4, Lionel Tacchini wrote:
>> On 22.07.2013 21:48, Willem Orange wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, July 22, 2013 1:20:58 PM UTC-4, Lionel Tacchini wrote:
>>
>>>> On 21.07.2013 21:58, Willem Orange wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Patrice Chereau always has interesting things to show us about relationships and his new Elektra at Aix is no exception. He has assembled a wonderful cast of singing actors =- when you have Waltraud Meier singing Klytemnestra you know you won't be bored - also Herlitzius is Elektra and there are some old timers - Franz Mazura and Donald McIntyre along with Roberta Alexander all wonderful to see. It can be seen until July 27 at
>>
>>
>>>>> http://we.tl/vfPVaoRfFk
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> http://we.tl/FRsDrH0bPS
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> and also has been uploaded to a number of sites. Worth seeing. Wagner fan

>>

>>> Familiarizing yourself with the text beforehand could possibly help. Wagner fan
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, of course, but I always regret the lack of intelligibility inherent
>>
>> to that kind of singing and know by experience that being there in the
>>
>> front row doesn't even solve the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> At least we had subtitles this time. Thanks for sharing, it was an
>>
>> impressive one.
>>

> I wonder if the lack of intelligibility in the repertory is a modern problem or do you think it was better back closer to Strauss own time.

I suppose it is first a problem of acoustics. In the present case,
nearly all women are hard to understand except in the quiet passages.
Orest, on the other hand, is perfectly clear.

> I know I have a recording of Schluter singing Elektra from the 40s - the voice could be ugly but I don't recall if the words came through clearly.

They do.

> Or is just that the roles are so diffcult technically that the words
sometimes hit the skids in an effort just to get the tone out.
> As for Chereau I find him always fascinating.

This was excellent. When seeing such acting, I cannot think of just
listening to the work.

[Christopher Webber]

On 22/07/2013 21:08, Willem Orange wrote:
> Christopher - really. I value your many opinions but I think we are so far apart on the issue of opera direction that, as I already, stated I have neither the energy nor the inclination to persue it further. Just mark it up to economy of effort since experience shows neither party changes their minds and it becomes an exercise in frustration - so lets just agree to let it go???? best Wagner Fan

Indeed you are right: frustration is the word, and there's nought to be
gained by further debate. The war is over, anyway.

But putting opera direction to one side, I would like to think there is
*something* to be gained by pursuing the question of what sort of opera
'Rigoletto' is.

Consider that comic-opera first scene (which Auber couldn't have done
better), the chorus "Zitti, zitti" with its jaunty cross-rhythms - and
in fact everything involving the male chorus, not least their narrative
description of Gilda's abduction to amuse the Duke ... what's wonderful
about all these is the fine line between light comedy (for the nobility)
and tragic implications (for Gilda, and her father, ironically the
jester-orchestrator of the light comedy).

The Quartet is surely the summation of this double aim. What makes it
one of the most moving things in all opera is the counterpoint between
the light operetta-flirtation going on *inside* the inn, with the
tragic, broken innocence and steely revenge going on *outside*.
Simultaneously. Only music theatre can really do this.

Precise (the pin-point accuracy and swift �lan of these counterpoints),
piquant (the wonderful wit of the comedy melodies) and amusing - who
could fail to smile at the flippant cross-rhythms of "Zitti, zitti"?
while at the same time being horrified by what these jolly courtiers are
doing. There's no finer music drama than this.

**************

My favourite recording by the way, to bring this tangentially back on
topic, is the 1959 Philips set with Capecchi, d'Angelo and Tucker under
Molinari Pradelli. Not the "best", mark you, as it's cut about and
rather coarsely played. But it remains the most red-blooded, vivid and
thoroughly theatrical I know. It is available in a surprisingly good
transfer on Walhall too, masquerading as a "live" performance but
nothing of the kind.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdi-Rigoletto-Richard-Tucker/dp/B004RGHVX2/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1374532560&sr=1-1&keywords=rigoletto+capecchi

Listen to this, and I think anyone will appreciate the remarkable
tragi-comic duality of the opera.

[Willem Orange]

Whats amazing to me is the quantum leap between the earlier works and Rigoletto - there are certainly wonderful dramatic moments in the earlier Verdi (for me Macbeth has it hands down) but nothing on the order of Rigoletto which has not a wasted note and is dramatically fascinating. I hope I am not the only one who finds Gilda's self-sacrifice at the end absolutely believable considering what has happened before. And Rigoletto himself is for me the first of the Verdi baritone roles to come out of Verdi's imagination and unforgettably into ours. I think I have a copy of that old Philips set somewhere - I'll have to look for it although it will have to be something else from Capecchi to match my favorite of all - Stracciari on the old Columbia set. best Wagner fan

[Christopher Webber]

On 23/07/2013 00:16, Willem Orange wrote:
> I think I have a copy of that old Philips set somewhere - I'll have to look for it

There was an earlier, very poor transfer - but the Walhall sounds
excellent (better indeed than my old LP incarnation on Fontana,
Philips's old bargain label).

[Willem Orange]

I just heard the Vendetta duet in rather poor sound on You Tube which however sounds hair raising enough for me to want to get the whole thing. Will pick up the Walhall - thx much for the recommendation. Wagner Fan

[jeffc]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:45:07 AM UTC+2, Christopher Webber wrote

> But putting opera direction to one side, I would like to think there is
> *something* to be gained by pursuing the question of what sort of opera
> 'Rigoletto' is.

You mean when not conceived as "Planet of the Apes"

http://intermezzo.typepad.com/intermezzo/2007/07/rigoletto-in-mu.html

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Dana John Hill]

Rigoletto is ever in my ears, and while I can see how, to some degree,
there is humor here and there, as I watch or listen I seldom find much
to chuckle about. I think this is because the outcome is so terrible. By
the time Monterone casts his curse, and Rigoletto is clearly affected by
it, this story is not going to end well. Granted, I always find myself
fantasizing that Gilda will wise up for once and not sacrifice herself
for the Duke, but I'm never so lucky.

I understand that this story is supposedly about how "the king amuses
himself", but even in the first scene you mention, when we see the
courtiers and the Duke, and Rigoletto himself laughing in the presence
of a girl who's been the victim of sexual assault, I find few laughs.
Monterone's entrance and curse makes clear that the actions of the Duke
and his minions have consequences. Rather than smile, I think the
juxtaposition of giddy music and tragic drama make me feel quite
uncomfortable.

I agree with you completely that Verdi does amazing things in Rigoletto.

Dana John Hill
Gainesville, Florida

[Christopher Webber]

On 23/07/2013 12:15, Dana John Hill wrote:
> Rather than smile, I think the juxtaposition of giddy music and tragic
> drama make me feel quite uncomfortable.
>

Quite. I think that its power to unsettle us is a remarkable facet to
this opera: "giddy music" is just the right phrase for it. It's a little
bit like Shakespeare's 'Othello' (though not Verdi's so much) which for
most of its course runs like one of his comedies (such as 'Twelfth
Night', as much in tone as situation) before going horribly wrong.

If 'Rigoletto' *had* been an operetta, The Duke would have realised how
appallingly his courtiers had let him down, let Gilda go back home
without raping her, and everyone would have conspired to make him see
the error of his wicked ways in Act 4, which would have ended with
general reconciliation and a marriage (and maybe a pig's carcass in the
sack instead of Gilda!)

But you are right. How much we *want* Gilda to be saved - and it hurts
us the more, because given the light tone of so much of the score happy
end somehow doesn't feel completely out of the question. Instead we get
something terrible and brutal, in counterpoint with the Duke going
blithely off down the road singing his hit song about the fickleness of
women.

> I agree with you completely that Verdi does amazing things in Rigoletto.

Of that there is "no possible doubt whatever"! As I've said, it remains
for me his - and Piave's - most towering achievement.

[Willem Orange]

And to think a couple months before that he composed Stiffelio - its like going from ginger-ale to champagne. BTW I really enjoyed the recent Aix Rigoletto and you might as well. There is a circus motif around the whole thing, all the acting is extremely good (though there is the seemingly requisite bit of nudity - the Duke heading off to Gilda in Act Two to do his thing)and I found it consistently interesting to watch. If you saw it - what did you think of the current MET version????

[Christopher Webber]

>BTW I really enjoyed the recent Aix Rigoletto and you might as well. There is a circus motif around the whole thing, all the acting is extremely good (though there is the seemingly requisite bit of nudity - the Duke heading off to Gilda in Act Two to do his thing)and I found it consistently interesting to watch. If you saw it - what did you think of the current MET version????

I don't go out of my way to watch productions of 'Rigoletto', having
directed it myself a good number of years ago - that's usually the way,
of course, when you've been close to an opera professionally. Nobody
else's version gets it right!

Mine (still I think one of the best things I've done) had a mediaeval,
French tarot-pack theme; and thanks to great stage and costume designers
it looked really beautiful. I was lucky with my cast, too. What a
privilege to have engaged with such a work...

[Dana John Hill]

On 7/23/2013 7:31 AM, Christopher Webber wrote:
>
> Of that there is "no possible doubt whatever"! As I've said, it remains
> for me his - and Piave's - most towering achievement.

I pulled a Rigoletto recording off the shelf yesterday intending to
listen to a few excerpts, but ended up playing the whole thing. It was
the Sinopoli version on Philips with Bruson, Schicoff, and Gruberova. I
hadn't listened to this set in years, and even then I am sure I only
heard it once. I was pleased. Each of those singers does a fine job.
Interestingly, the score is presented with few interpolations. Rigoletto
gets no high A-Flat at the end of the Act II duet. There's not even a
high B in "La donna è mobile".