High-end audio maker Linn declares death of the CD player
Sol L. Siegel
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming-
cd-players
Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
--
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Steve Spartan
> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming-
> cd-players
>
> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>
It's a marketing ploy to draw attention to their own products before the
biggest shopping day in America.
Linn can declare whatever they want but the fact remains that there are
still MANY people out there like me who prefer CD for many various reasons.
MiNe 109
Steve Spartan <s_spar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sol L. Siegel wrote:
> > Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
> >
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming-
> > cd-players
> >
> > Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
> >
>
> It's a marketing ploy to draw attention to their own products before the
> biggest shopping day in America.
Yes, by sending press releases to UK newspapers.
> Linn can declare whatever they want but the fact remains that there are
> still MANY people out there like me who prefer CD for many various reasons.
Have you shopped for a stand-alone cd player recently? The choice is
pretty much high-end or multi-format.
Stephen
Dil
Norman Schwartz
"MiNe 109" <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:smcelroy2-3905A...@nntp.aioe.org...
> In article <tIKdndW8w4D9lJXW...@earthlink.com>,
> Steve Spartan <s_spar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Sol L. Siegel wrote:
>> > Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>> >
>> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming-
>> > cd-players
>> >
>> > Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings
>> > group.
>> >
>>
>> It's a marketing ploy to draw attention to their own products before the
>> biggest shopping day in America.
>
> Yes, by sending press releases to UK newspapers.
>
>> Linn can declare whatever they want but the fact remains that there are
>> still MANY people out there like me who prefer CD for many various
>> reasons.
>
cassette tape
> Have you shopped for a stand-alone cd player recently? The choice is
> pretty much high-end or multi-format.
>
I myself wouldn't shop for a new CD player as there are many inexpensive
and good DVD players which do that job just as well, if not better. Ime
high-end CD players had problems reading CD-R and CD-RW (perhaps things have
changed for the better in recent times).
> Stephen
William Sommerwerck
format" player.
For $900, you get a machine that plays almost everything except HD-DVD --
now with audiophile-quality sound!
MiNe 109
"Norman Schwartz" <nm...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "MiNe 109" <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:smcelroy2-3905A...@nntp.aioe.org...
> > In article <tIKdndW8w4D9lJXW...@earthlink.com>,
> > Steve Spartan <s_spar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sol L. Siegel wrote:
> >> > Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
> >> >
> >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streamin
> >> > g-
> >> > cd-players
> >> >
> >> > Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings
> >> > group.
> >> >
> >>
> >> It's a marketing ploy to draw attention to their own products before the
> >> biggest shopping day in America.
> >
> > Yes, by sending press releases to UK newspapers.
> >
> >> Linn can declare whatever they want but the fact remains that there are
> >> still MANY people out there like me who prefer CD for many various
> >> reasons.
> >
> Like when I want to play one of my own CD-Rs (made from a LP, O/R or
> cassette tape
Fortunately, Linn's decision won't affect your ability to do that.
> > Have you shopped for a stand-alone cd player recently? The choice is
> > pretty much high-end or multi-format.
> >
>
> I myself wouldn't shop for a new CD player as there are many inexpensive
> and good DVD players which do that job just as well, if not better. Ime
> high-end CD players had problems reading CD-R and CD-RW (perhaps things have
> changed for the better in recent times).
This is why the stand-alone cd player is all but dead outside of
high-end brands. The last two cd-capable players I bought were dvd
players under $50 chosen for HDMI and remote compatibility.
Stephen
Johannes Roehl
Johannes Roehl
But both of these apply to Linn's products. The tendency has been clear
before Linn declared it. And as they are still making record players, CD
players are bound to be around for some time.
Johannes
Gerard
I always wonder if that ("now with audiophile-quality sound!") is really
comparable to very good CD players.
In ads the sound quality is marvellous, of course. But how is the quality of the
sound when playing CDs on this kind of play-it-all machines in reality (compared
to very good stand alone machines)?
Randy Lane
Fearing the death they speak of, I jumped at the opportunity to get a
high-end Denon (see link below) for under $800 (in-store demo unti,
clean/spotless/little used - dealer going out-of-business) a year ago.
I bought a Sony 707ESD almost twenty years ago for 1/2 its original
price ($1,000 vs $2,000) and it has served me tremendously all these
years. Before that I was buying a new player every 2-3 years.
I can play virtually anything I want to on it, particularly SACD and
DVD-Audio. And get matchless sound.
I don't an OPPO could match it by any means. I tried an OPPO, and
found it pathetic.
Gerard
That's what I mean. Machines like this one have first class - or "flagship" -
parts, while < $300 machines only can contain very low end parts (if they
contain any).
I suppose the sound of this Denon machine is very satisfying to you (I hope it
is); well, "matchless sound" will do :)
Steve Spartan
I have a "play it all" machine [Pioneer DV-578A] and a 20 year old CD
only machine [Adcom GCD-575] and I can tell you the the Adcom blows away
the Pioneer every time for CD playback. The difference is not subtle
either. The Adcom has a sound that is more full and warm. I'm still a
firm believer in CD only players even though they have been hard to find
outside of the high end for years. They are in abundance used on ebay
and there are still some nice looking players in the $300 to $500 range
new at sites like audioadvisor.com
Me, I'm sticking with my trusty Adcom until it breaks.
Steve Spartan
> In article <tIKdndW8w4D9lJXW...@earthlink.com>,
> Steve Spartan <s_spar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Sol L. Siegel wrote:
>>> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming-
>>> cd-players
>>>
>>> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>>>
>> It's a marketing ploy to draw attention to their own products before the
>> biggest shopping day in America.
>
> Yes, by sending press releases to UK newspapers.
They have created a "buzz" which I assume was the intent.
>
>> Linn can declare whatever they want but the fact remains that there are
>> still MANY people out there like me who prefer CD for many various reasons.
>
> Have you shopped for a stand-alone cd player recently? The choice is
> pretty much high-end or multi-format.
This has been the case for years not only with CD players but with
turntables as well[where it's pretty much high end or nothing]. Come to
think of it, it's the same now for music servers too.
>
> Stephen
MiNe 109
Steve Spartan <s_spar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> MiNe 109 wrote:
> > In article <tIKdndW8w4D9lJXW...@earthlink.com>,
> > Steve Spartan <s_spar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sol L. Siegel wrote:
> >>> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming
> >>> -
> >>> cd-players
> >>>
> >>> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings
> >>> group.
> >>>
> >> It's a marketing ploy to draw attention to their own products before the
> >> biggest shopping day in America.
> >
> > Yes, by sending press releases to UK newspapers.
>
> They have created a "buzz" which I assume was the intent.
Google news only showed one US website had picked up the story. Linn is
of course trying to sell the new product. The connection to "Black
Friday" is not obvious.
> >> Linn can declare whatever they want but the fact remains that there are
> >> still MANY people out there like me who prefer CD for many various
> >> reasons.
> >
> > Have you shopped for a stand-alone cd player recently? The choice is
> > pretty much high-end or multi-format.
>
> This has been the case for years not only with CD players but with
> turntables as well[where it's pretty much high end or nothing]. Come to
> think of it, it's the same now for music servers too.
CD players compete with dvd players, etc, and music servers compete with
repurposed computers such as the Apple TV.
I'm of mixed feelings about this, as I have a high end cd player and
don't look forward to the prospect of transferring my collection into a
server (I've even bought bargain mp3s of cds I already own) and finding
an equally high quality DAC, but I have also heard good results from
hard drive playback . There could also be an advantage to ease of
locating stuff if the interface makes sense to me.
Stephen
mark
> cd-players
>
> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>
> --
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
The problem is that by the time most of us reach the age where we have
the disposable income to buy a high-end player our hearing has
deteriorated to the point where we're flushing $ down the audio
toilet. :(
Bob Lombard
Hmmph. When the truth is unpleasant, Mark, some consideration should
be given to the necessity of expressing it. :(
bl
William Sommerwerck
> comparable to very good CD players. In ads the sound quality is
> marvellous, of course. But how is the quality of the sound when playing
> CDs on this kind of play-it-all machines in reality (compared to very good
There is no such thing as a "stand-alone" CD (or DVD, or BD, or SACD)
player. They all play disks of the same diameter, with the same size center
hole. There's no reason, in principle, why a "combined' unit can't be as
good as "separates".
I don't have a definitive answer (if there is one). But several reviews have
said that the "plain" version of the OPPO 83 (which got a top recommendation
in CR as a BD player) has extremely good sound, though not quite up to the
best "premium" models.
OPPO developed its reputation by selling underpriced products that
overperformed. In a year or so I'll probably replace my Sony SACD and BD
players with the OPPO.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
to be typed in news:Xns9CCA64ED9BE...@130.133.1.4:
> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-streaming-
> cd-players
>
> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
HAW HAW HAW HAW! And how long ago was it that EMI declared the Pappano
"Tristan" would be the last studio opera recording ever? And then how long
did it take before they had the same conductor record "Madama Butterfly"?
Why doesn't Linn just hire a guy to put on a Spider-Man suit and climb up the
side of their building? It's an equally valid method of getting publicity.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
AN
replacement for a decent CD player.
The latest Denon and Sony receivers at the top end of their ranges do
much the same thing I understand, via an ethernet cable.
http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=417
AN
A reader poll in Stereophile magazine showed only 34% of those
participating still used CD players as their primary digital music
source. 36% used a computer-based server, 10% had dedicated servers
such as Sonos, 4% used iPods and 11% used a SACD or DVD-A disc player.
The poll didn’t ask for figures on vinyl playback.
Dave Cook
> I'm of mixed feelings about this, as I have a high end cd player and
> don't look forward to the prospect of transferring my collection into a
> server (I've even bought bargain mp3s of cds I already own) and finding
> an equally high quality DAC, but I have also heard good results from
> hard drive playback . There could also be an advantage to ease of
> locating stuff if the interface makes sense to me.
The main problem with that is that the metadata for classical music
files is a maddening jumble. You have to retag everything to avoid
complete chaos, and that can be very time consuming.
Dave Cook
William Sommerwerck
server with multiple TB hard drives. The CD "player", as such, will
disappear.
Assuming an average size of 500MB, you can get 2000 CDs, uncompressed, on a
one TB hard drive -- perhaps twice that with lossless compression. Once this
becomes relatively cheap to do (and that's not far off), and -- most
importantly -- the indexing process is automatic and painless, there will be
little point in playing CDs.
I just hope SACDs don't get abandoned in the process.
How you back up all this material is another matter...
Gerard
> > I always wonder if that ("now with audiophile-quality sound!") is
> > really comparable to very good CD players. In ads the sound quality
> > is marvellous, of course. But how is the quality of the sound when
> > playing CDs on this kind of play-it-all machines in reality
> > (compared to very good stand-alone machines)?
>
> There is no such thing as a "stand-alone" CD (or DVD, or BD, or SACD)
> player.
You may use the term you like. But probably it's clear what I meant.
>
> They all play disks of the same diameter, with the same size
> center hole. There's no reason, in principle, why a "combined' unit
> can't be as good as "separates".
I'm sure that my CD player does not play DVDs and SACDs (non-hybrid).
I was talking about rather cheap play-it-all machines compared to very good cd
players.
td
> "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> appears to have caused the following letters
>
> > Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>
> > cd-players
>
> > Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>
> HAW HAW HAW HAW! And how long ago was it that EMI declared the Pappano
> "Tristan" would be the last studio opera recording ever? And then how long
> did it take before they had the same conductor record "Madama Butterfly"?
>
> Why doesn't Linn just hire a guy to put on a Spider-Man suit and climb up the
> side of their building? It's an equally valid method of getting publicity.
Only Tepper would find a link between EMI's Tristan and Linn's
abandonment of the CD player.
Really, this guy is a certified boob!
TD
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:008425fa$0$12984$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
Indeed. I think that all of those people who insist on putting the
composer's name into the "artist" field (except when the composer is
actually performing) ought to have green slime dumped over his head on
national television.
number_six
> Dave Cook <davec...@nowhere.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed innews:008425fa$0$12984$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>
> > On 2009-11-21, MiNe 109 <smcelr...@POPaustin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm of mixed feelings about this, as I have a high end cd player and
> >> don't look forward to the prospect of transferring my collection into a
> >> server (I've even bought bargain mp3s of cds I already own) and finding
> >> an equally high quality DAC, but I have also heard good results from
> >> hard drive playback . There could also be an advantage to ease of
> >> locating stuff if the interface makes sense to me.
>
> > The main problem with that is that the metadata for classical music
> > files is a maddening jumble. You have to retag everything to avoid
> > complete chaos, and that can be very time consuming.
>
> Indeed. I think that all of those people who insist on putting the
> composer's name into the "artist" field (except when the composer is
> actually performing) ought to have green slime dumped over his head on
> national television.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> Read about "Proty" here:http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
What about the software vendor that didn't even have a "composer"
field?
They could have called it "songwriter"...
;-P
Steve Thompson
> The main problem with that is that the metadata for classical music
> files is a maddening jumble. You have to retag everything to avoid
> complete chaos, and that can be very time consuming.
Amen brother.
Ward Hardman is an asshole. Ward Hardman is an idiot. Ward Hardman is a psycho. Ward Hardman is a useless turd. Ward Hardman is a Group Destroyer. Ward Hardman is a Troll. Ward Hardman is a Spammer.
Anti-Troll-01
Thread-Mender
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:ea9179b3-db27-4629-b4ae-32cc26f88392
@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com:
> What about the software vendor that didn't even have a "composer" field?
>
> They could have called it "songwriter"...
Don't get me started on Apple's (which is to say, Steve Jobs') insistence
that each track be called a "song"? EWWW!
Andrew Rose
> There is no question that, ultimately, all software will be moved to a home
> server with multiple TB hard drives. The CD "player", as such, will
> disappear.
>
> Assuming an average size of 500MB, you can get 2000 CDs, uncompressed, on a
> one TB hard drive -- perhaps twice that with lossless compression. Once this
> becomes relatively cheap to do (and that's not far off), and -- most
> importantly -- the indexing process is automatic and painless, there will be
> little point in playing CDs.
This is where I'm now at. Two 2TB drives in a mirrored RAID server,
streamed wirelessly at up to 270Mbps to a quiet replay HMDI-enabled PC
in my living room with a high quality external audio interface.
>
> I just hope SACDs don't get abandoned in the process.
The software I'm using will replay high definition formats as easily as
it replays CD-quality audio (though SACDs are a particularly unusual
format, and I'm referring here to regular PCM digital audio - if I
wished to listen to the one SACD in my collection I would have to hook
up the Sony SACD player, the laser pick-up of which is getting
increasingly temperamental).
I chose not to go multi-channel but to stick to stereo. The streaming
and replay equipment and software will handle 192/24 as easily as it
handles 44.1/16. Both are straightforward and nowhere near as data
intensive as playing 1080p HD video, which is also on the system.
I took the CD player out a few weeks ago as it hadn't been used for a
long time. The CD racks will be leaving the living room in the next few
days when the room gets re-decorated.
>
> How you back up all this material is another matter...
>
I'm putting my faith in the RAID server drives, with the fall back that
these were copied from a nearly-full 1.5TB drive which is now "resting".
If one of the RAID drives fails a second can be dropped into its place -
the hardware will then do the rest and mirror the surviving drive. I'm
hoping that in this scenario I'd have some kind of advance warning - and
of course that they don't fail simultaneously.
The whole system is on a UPS to protect against momentary or short power
failures, mains spikes and brown-outs.
Of course, nothing is 100% secure - but then a fire could have melted
all my CDs, records and tapes and it hasn't yet.
Meanwhile, in the studio (and in the store-room office), I have all the
old equipment - disc players for 78s, LPs, CD, SACD, MiniDisc; tape
players for 1/4" stereo, 1/4" four-track, 8-track, cassette, DAT, VHS,
Betamax, PCM F1, Elcassette, Digital Compact Cassette, 2" open-reel
video (the format name escapes me right now) etc., etc.
So many formats, each one of them effectively now rendered obsolete...
--
Andrew Rose
Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
recordings..." (Gramophone)
Steve de Mena
> number_six <cybe...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:ea9179b3-db27-4629-b4ae-32cc26f88392
> @u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com:
>
>> What about the software vendor that didn't even have a "composer" field?
>>
>> They could have called it "songwriter"...
>
> Don't get me started on Apple's (which is to say, Steve Jobs') insistence
> that each track be called a "song"? EWWW!
"Song" seems the most logical thing to call them.
Steve
mandryka
wrote:
One problem is how you riip your Cds -- that must be a very time
consuming process even if most of the tagging is done correbtly and
automatically (which it may not be)
BTW has anyone had experience of the Logitech Sqeezebox?
http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/squeezebox-touch.html
herman
The most logical name for a track is "track".
td
Sounds like the average household to me, don't you think?
TD
td
Track is so bland and mechanical by comparison.
Perhaps Tepper would prefer movement, as he spends so much time on the
toilet having one.
TD
td
Too technical.
TD
William Sommerwerck
>> insistence that each track be called a "song"? EWWW!
> "Song" seems the most logical thing to call them.
Why not "selection"? Or "piece"? Or "work"?
"Song" is the worst-possible choice. It's yet another minor corruption of
English.
William Sommerwerck
> consuming process even if most of the tagging is done correctly
> and automatically (which it may not be).
Ripping isn't a problem, as you can be doing other things while the program
takes care of it.
Tagging is the problem, especially for classical music, as the Grace Notes
data aren't always complete or correct. Several years ago I started indexing
my collection, but stopped after about 200 disks, as it took several minutes
per disk to clean up and correct the data.
Steve de Mena
>>> Don't get me started on Apple's (which is to say, Steve Jobs')
>>> insistence that each track be called a "song"? EWWW!
>
>> "Song" seems the most logical thing to call them.
>
> Why not "selection"? Or "piece"? Or "work"?
Boring.
Remember, this has to work for every genre of music.
Steve
Steve de Mena
The last 6 months or so have switched to using dbPowerAmp's CD ripper.
It seems to behave like an enhanced EAC [Exact Audio Copy].
It touts "PerfectMeta� using 4 providers: AMG, GD3, MusicBrainz and
freedb simultaneously, including high resolution Album Art"
Still run across discs that are not in there or need a lot of
re-formatting. I use "Tag & Rename" to help with some of those operations.
I've ripped thousands of CDs so far...
Steve
Randy Lane
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
> >> One problem is how you rip your CDs -- that must be a very time
> >> consuming process even if most of the tagging is done correctly
> >> and automatically (which it may not be).
>
> > Ripping isn't a problem, as you can be doing other things while the program
> > takes care of it.
>
> > Tagging is the problem, especially for classical music, as the Grace Notes
> > data aren't always complete or correct. Several years ago I started indexing
> > my collection, but stopped after about 200 disks, as it took several minutes
> > per disk to clean up and correct the data.
>
> The last 6 months or so have switched to using dbPowerAmp's CD ripper.
> It seems to behave like an enhanced EAC [Exact Audio Copy].
>
> freedb simultaneously, including high resolution Album Art"
>
> Still run across discs that are not in there or need a lot of
> re-formatting. I use "Tag & Rename" to help with some of those operations.
>
> I've ripped thousands of CDs so far...
>
> Steve
I still use EAC as I can combine it with MAREO to produce both
lossless FLAC files and high quality MP3 files in one operation (rip
once, compress both formats).
mandryka
>
> - Show quoted text -
But how long does it take to rip a CD with EAC and compress it with
MAREO?
What I want is a machine which will rip a few hundred overnight as a
batch job.
Norman Schwartz
"Steve de Mena" <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
news:QvSdnTCNY_YHeJXW...@giganews.com...
> Steve
number_six
> "Steve de Mena" <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote in messagenews:QvSdnTCNY_YHeJXW...@giganews.com...> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> >> number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following
> >> letters to be typed in news:ea9179b3-db27-4629-b4ae-32cc26f88392
> >> @u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>> What about the software vendor that didn't even have a "composer" field?
>
> >>> They could have called it "songwriter"...
>
> >> Don't get me started on Apple's (which is to say, Steve Jobs') insistence
> >> that each track be called a "song"? EWWW!
>
> > "Song" seems the most logical thing to call them.
>
> For a long time I couldn't get away from calling them 'bands'.
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Now that would also confuse many a user -- they would think the bands
were the performers!
Randy Lane
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can't do that, no.
Still no substitute in my opinion for individually ripping each disk
and carefully standardizing tags.
Randy Lane
Regarding SACD and DVD-A, interesting tests can be found here:
William Sommerwerck
> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70893.0
The use of double-blind A/B/X testing automatically invalidates the results.
That's not how people actually listen to recordings.
Bob Lombard
Sure. You need the human element, exemplified by witness' descriptions
of a crime enactment.
bl
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:4b095ad7$0$5014$607e...@cv.net:
No, "band" is (for some people) the only acceptable, or even the only
possible, name for a performing ensemble. Or even individuals, as seen on
www.ubl.com. BLECCCH!
Matthew�B.�Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
It took me a year and a half to fill up my 80GB iPod, and the annoyance of
fixing tags was a significant contributor to my procrastination.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Of course, nothing is 100% secure - but then a fire could have melted
> all my CDs, records and tapes and it hasn't yet.
Do you have off-site storage?
Dave Cook
> BTW has anyone had experience of the Logitech Sqeezebox?
> http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/squeezebox-touch.html
I've been using a Duet for several months and like it very much,
though I do wish the controller had a bigger display.
Don't try to do to much before you've upgraded the firmware, though.
If you have a lot of high-res files (e.g. 96KHz sampling rate or
above), you probably want to wait for the Touch as current
Squeezeboxen only support up to 24 bit/48KHz. Everything else is
downsampled.
I feed the coaxial digital output of the receiver into my Cambridge
840C CD player (though the receiver does have analog outputs). I run
the server on an Ubuntu box, though it can run on microsoft, Mac OS X,
and one brand of NAS. Everything is networked wirelessly.
I rip everything to FLAC (which can be tagged any way you like) and
use Erland's CustomScan/CustomBrowse plugin for browsing my classical
collection by composer/work/(artist/conductor/band). Ripping and
tagging is done with my own custom scripts. It's still a time
consuming process.
One great thing about the Squeezebox is that all the server software
is done with open source tools (Perl, sox, flac, etc.) so that a
community of 3rd party developers has grown up around it.
Dave Cook
Dave Cook
> What I want is a machine which will rip a few hundred overnight as a
> batch job.
Using some kind of CD-ROM jukebox? Otherwise someone still needs to
feed the ripper.
Dave Cook
Dave Cook
> The use of double-blind A/B/X testing automatically invalidates the results.
Oh, what a good boy you are, protecting the high-end orthodoxy from
the infidels with this old line of bullshit.
Dave Cook
number_six
> "Norman Schwartz" <n...@optonline.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed innews:4b095ad7$0$5014$607e...@cv.net:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Steve de Mena" <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
> >news:QvSdnTCNY_YHeJXW...@giganews.com...
> >> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> >>> following letters to be typed in
> >>> news:ea9179b3-db27-4629-b4ae-32cc26f88392
> >>> @u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>>> What about the software vendor that didn't even have a "composer"
> >>>> field?
>
> >>>> They could have called it "songwriter"...
>
> >>> Don't get me started on Apple's (which is to say, Steve Jobs')
> >>> insistence that each track be called a "song"? EWWW!
>
> >> "Song" seems the most logical thing to call them.
>
> > For a long time I couldn't get away from calling them 'bands'.
>
> No, "band" is (for some people) the only acceptable, or even the only
> possible, name for a performing ensemble. Or even individuals, as seen on www.ubl.com. BLECCCH!
>
ubl.com?? I had no idea bin Laden was such a pop music fanboy!
Gerard
This gives a rather different perspective for your other posts about the
subject.
William Sommerwerck
William Sommerwerck
>> the results.
> Oh, what a good boy you are, protecting the high-end orthodoxy
> from the infidels with this old line of bullshit.
Not at all. There are ways of testing that eliminate subjective bias. It's
just that no one wants to go to the trouble to do them.
Dave Cook
> Not at all. There are ways of testing that eliminate subjective bias. It's
> just that no one wants to go to the trouble to do them.
Then I was being kneejerk in my reaction then. Though I hope you're
not taking your opinion of A/B/X testing from John Atkinson's
intellectually dishonest writings on the topic.
Dave Cook
William Sommerwerck
>> It's just that no one wants to go to the trouble to do them.
> Then I was being kneejerk in my reaction then. Though I hope you're
> not taking your opinion of A/B/X testing from John Atkinson's
> intellectually dishonest writings on the topic.
No need to apologize.
If I'd had a whole year to do such testing, I'd have set up the ADC/DAC in
multiple listening rooms, hidden, with a switch so that the listener could
choose between "straight-through" and "no conversion" at any time -- without
knowing which was which.
The listener would then have had as much time as he liked to decide if he
could tell the difference between the positions, and if so, how they would
be characterized.
This would be done in the relaxed context of normal listening -- not sitting
in a crowd of tense auditioners, trying to hear a difference.
Granted, the listener would know that there was a test going on. But it's a
closer to normal listening.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:hebv1n$dk1$1...@news.eternal-
september.org:
> "Track" makes the most sense, as it can apply to any kind of music.
Indeed, as I've been saying.
Andrew Rose
> Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:4b08e2ee$0$931$ba4a...@news.orange.fr:
>
>> Of course, nothing is 100% secure - but then a fire could have melted
>> all my CDs, records and tapes and it hasn't yet.
>
> Do you have off-site storage?
>
no, for my private collection I don't. For Pristine's masters then yes,
they exist in multiple locations.
Andrew Rose
I've found Tag Tuner to be a very helpful tool.
Simon Roberts
mandryka says...
>
>On Nov 22, 3:15=A0pm, Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 22, 5:04=A0am, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The last 6 months or so have switched to using dbPowerAmp's CD ripper.
>>
>> > It touts "PerfectMeta=99 using 4 providers: AMG, GD3, MusicBrainz and
>> > freedb simultaneously, including high resolution Album Art"
>>
>> > Still run across discs that are not in there or need a lot of
>ns.
>>
>> > I've ripped thousands of CDs so far...
>>
>> > Steve
>>
>> I still use EAC as I can combine it with MAREO to produce both
>> lossless FLAC files and high quality MP3 files in one operation (rip
>> once, compress both formats).- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>But how long does it take to rip a CD with EAC and compress it with
>MAREO?
It takes very little time to do that using dbPowerAmp - it rips to whatever
format you want.
>What I want is a machine which will rip a few hundred overnight as a
>batch job.
Plus an army of elves to label the resulting files correctly.
I wish the appropriate technology had been available from the time I started
buying CDs; rip-as-you-acquire would be relatively painless, and recordings
would be easier to find....
Simon
matka59
> all my CDs, records and tapes and it hasn't yet.
>
> old equipment - disc players for 78s, LPs, CD, SACD, MiniDisc; tape
> players for 1/4" stereo, 1/4" four-track, 8-track, cassette, DAT, VHS,
> Betamax, PCM F1, Elcassette, Digital Compact Cassette, 2" open-reel
> video (the format name escapes me right now) etc., etc.
>
> So many formats, each one of them effectively now rendered obsolete...
>
> Andrew Rose
>
> Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
> recordings..." (Gramophone)
>
> www.pristineclassical.com
Raid is not a substitute for a backup.
I believe you either use Raid 1 or 5 where at least 1 disc is
redundant, in this configuration you are only protecting your data
against a disc failure. You are not protected against motherboard or
raid controller failure, actually if any of the previously mentioned
fails, you are much worse off when not using raid at all. Controller
failure makes raid disks unreadable, on the other hand, you can
recover data from non stripped single discs.
I keep my music and video on Raid 5 array but do incremental backups
to 1TB usb drives every 4 hrs. They are cheap (I believe 2TB are
coming soon to the market) and easy to set up.
From your collection description, it is to valuable to loose.
George
JG
grizzle...@comcast.net says...
> There is no question that, ultimately, all software will be moved to a home
> server with multiple TB hard drives. The CD "player", as such, will
> disappear.
>
> Assuming an average size of 500MB, you can get 2000 CDs, uncompressed, on a
> one TB hard drive -- perhaps twice that with lossless compression. Once this
> becomes relatively cheap to do (and that's not far off), and -- most
> importantly -- the indexing process is automatic and painless, there will be
> little point in playing CDs.
>
>
>
>
>
another TB to back that up, another to back that up,... ad infiniutum.
The cat jumping off the window sill may knock over a large stack of CDs,
but they can still be played.
JG
and...@pristineaudio.com says...
> I'm putting my faith in the RAID server drives, with the fall back that
> these were copied from a nearly-full 1.5TB drive which is now "resting".
> If one of the RAID drives fails a second can be dropped into its place -
> the hardware will then do the rest and mirror the surviving drive. I'm
> hoping that in this scenario I'd have some kind of advance warning - and
> of course that they don't fail simultaneously.
>
> The whole system is on a UPS to protect against momentary or short power
> failures, mains spikes and brown-outs.
>
> Of course, nothing is 100% secure - but then a fire could have melted
> all my CDs, records and tapes and it hasn't yet.
How long did it take you to populate 1.5TB from CD in the first place?
Steve de Mena
I've populated about 3.25 TB in about 8 1/2 years.
Steve
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:4dudnY21RO9mFpLW...@giganews.com:
> JG wrote:
>>
>> How long did it take you to populate 1.5TB from CD in the first place?
>
> I've populated about 3.25 TB in about 8 1/2 years.
To fill up my 80GB iPod, bought a few years ago, took a year and a half.
By the way, I've been meaning to predict that, within a few years, we will
see another thread with a title beginning with the words "High-end audio
maker Linn declares" -- only the end of that phrase wlil be different.
William Sommerwerck
> another thread with a title beginning with the words "High-end audio
> maker Linn declares" -- only the end of that phrase wlil be different.
I don't think so. Linn has always known how to market its products.
Steve de Mena
> Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:4dudnY21RO9mFpLW...@giganews.com:
>
>> JG wrote:
>>> How long did it take you to populate 1.5TB from CD in the first place?
>> I've populated about 3.25 TB in about 8 1/2 years.
>
> To fill up my 80GB iPod, bought a few years ago, took a year and a half.
>
> By the way, I've been meaning to predict that, within a few years, we will
> see another thread with a title beginning with the words "High-end audio
> maker Linn declares" -- only the end of that phrase wlil be different.
"...declares bankruptcy"?
Steve
Matthew�B.�Tepper
>> audio maker Linn declares" -- only the end of that phrase will be
>> different.
>
> "...declares bankruptcy"?
That's the idea.
Nick Sun
> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-stre...
> cd-players
>
> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>
> --
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Now, here is a better updated music server for today's users, with
internet radio and wireless accress. Still, why only FLAC but no
lossless AAC? Aslo, for this price, I hope it can have at least a few
Giga Bytes of cache memory in it, so that the hard disc will be
totally shut down when playing the music. Regardless how quiet those
disc runs, it's always a good idea to rest it most of time for long
term reliability as long as the soft start and shut down been well
sorted out.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/11/19/olive-launches-the-4hd-hi-fi-music-server/
http://www.olive.us/products/olive4hd_features.html
Andrew Rose
> On Nov 21, 9:55 am, "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-stre...
>> cd-players
>>
>> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>>
>> --
>> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
>
> Now, here is a better updated music server for today's users, with
> internet radio and wireless accress. Still, why only FLAC but no
> lossless AAC?
Could well be licensing. Certainly you can't license lossless AAC from
Apple in order to sell downloads in that format, as Linn discovered from
Apple's lawyers some time ago.
> Aslo, for this price, I hope it can have at least a few
> Giga Bytes of cache memory in it, so that the hard disc will be
> totally shut down when playing the music. Regardless how quiet those
> disc runs, it's always a good idea to rest it most of time for long
> term reliability as long as the soft start and shut down been well
> sorted out.
I've not read the links, but assume the drives are internal. Why? Far
better surely to have a remote server linked by high speed (e.g. N+)
Wi-Fi to the living room player, as I've done, to cut down on noise...
Andrew Rose
Further to this, I'm about to replace the (very quiet) internal HDD of
the ASRock PC I'm using with a Kingston SSD drive.
Because all my content storage is on a remote server, the OS and
software requirements I currently have on the PC add up to less than
15GB of HDD storage. I can replace the internal 320GB drive with a 64GB
silent solid state drive for a little over �100. It'll generate less
heat and use less power than the existing drive, allowing the whole unit
to run quieter and cooler.
It seems fairly obvious that within a very few short years this will
become the norm for these kinds of systems - audio and video stored on
vast solid-state memory drives that costs pennies by comparison to
today's devices, run faster, last longer (Kingston offers a 3 year
warranty with 24/7 tech support and suggests a MTBF (Mean Time Before
Failure) of 1.0 million hours - or a little over 114 years), and operate
silently with minimal electrical requirements.
I look forward to seeing how I get on with the new drive - should be up
and running before the end of the week...
Andrew Rose
>
> http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/11/19/olive-launches-the-4hd-hi-fi-music-server/
> http://www.olive.us/products/olive4hd_features.html
Now I've had a look at these links I can only say this thing looks way
over-priced for what it is. Inside you've got a 2TB drive (from �125 to
buy singly here in France) and a 5 year-old Texas Instruments DAC which
has a suggested bulk retail of around $10.
I doubt if the CD drive is a proprietary design. Add in a few bits and
bobs found on some of the cheapest PC motherboards and throw it in a
box, add in some fancy PR, and there you have it.
What it doesn't solve is the well-known shortcomings of these systems:
1 - A system-in-a-box is stuck doing only what it was programmed to do.
If formats change it won't handle them. If there's a bug in the firmware
you're reliant on the company being bothered to fix it. I've been there
with another company's box and don't want to go back...
2 - Any mechanical hard drive can be relied upon to do two things:
Firstly, as it ages, it gets progressively noisier; Secondly, at some
point it'll start to fail. Not necessarily too much of a problem if it's
easily swappable and easily and regularly backed up or mirrored - but
far better if it's remote and connected by a good fast network. That's
going to require a lot of wiring with the inadequate Wi-Fi they've built
in (and I'm guessing you can't swap it for something faster as you might
on a PC).
3 - They've put on an HDMI port, but there's no video replay. Say what?
For $2k I want full HD video as well as 24/196 audio, and that CD player
should be handling DVD and Blu-Ray as well.
But ultimately I'm not going to buy a product which states as the lead
item on its website promotion of this, in reference to 24-bit audio
"With more than 250 times the resolution of CDs, you'll hear the HD
difference immediately." This is playing with numbers to make
meaningless claims designed to bamboozle the consumer. I regularly
listen to both 24-bit audio and 16-bit audio - and the latter is most
certainly not "250 times" better than the former!
Steve de Mena
> On Nov 21, 9:55 am, "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Yeah... if you can afford the tech.
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/20/linn-audio-stre...
>> cd-players
>>
>> Disclosure: I'm repeating this from the Google classical-recordings group.
>>
>> --
>> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
>
> Now, here is a better updated music server for today's users, with
> internet radio and wireless accress. Still, why only FLAC but no
> lossless AAC? Aslo, for this price, I hope it can have at least a few
> Giga Bytes of cache memory in it, so that the hard disc will be
> totally shut down when playing the music. Regardless how quiet those
> disc runs, it's always a good idea to rest it most of time for long
> term reliability as long as the soft start and shut down been well
> sorted out.
Who cares? If it dies during the hard drive's 3-5 warranty you get
another, otherwise $50 buys you another Terrabyte drive. (A lot
cheaper than gigabytes of cache memory which would probably go unused
as it can't predict what someone is going to listen to after the
current track).
Our hard drives at work run 24x7 and usually run for years.
Apple's proprietary lossless format is "ALAC". Lossy AAC (the default
used by iTunes/iPods) is not an Apple format.
Steve