No Nails (Hector Garcia)
David Raleigh Arnold
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:27:33 -0800, Tommy Grand wrote:
> Friends,
>
> I stumbled upon this site http://billbakerontheguitar.com/
>
> This guy recorded a Pujol CD, but also has another very interesting
> product: a live recording of Hector Garcia playing Giuliani's concerto,
> Op 30.
>
> Enjoy,
> TG
I heard Hector Garcia play a concerto with orchestra (40+?) years ago.
I think it was Carulli, but it might have been Giuliani. He played
without nails, and he confirmed my strong negative opinion about playing
without nails because his fingers were sweaty so that sometimes they would
slip on the string and produce a weak tone and other times they would
grab and pull the string away from the top and give a bad snap. For
the most part he played well but there was this problem.
I no longer deprecate playing without nails so much, but I still see
sweaty fingertips as a problem when not using nails. I know that
playing more on the side of the finger helps somewhat by presenting the
fingerprint ridges at a greater angle, and I think
practicing tech for work on strokes especially at loud levels helps also,
by promoting better control of starting friction.
I no longer consider meeting the string in such a way that travel on
the end of the finger is restricted to travel along the nail, because
you cannot get full potential power that way, so I find that playing with
nails helps greatly but does not completely solve the stated problems of
playing without.
Comments?
Regards, daveA
BTW, I understand Sr. Garcia was in combat at the Bay of Pigs.
--
For beginners: very easy guitar music, solos, duets, exercises. Early
intermediate guitar solos. One best scale set for all guitarists.
http://www.openguitar.com/scalescomparison.html ::: plus new and
better chord and arpeggio exercises. http://www.openguitar.com
Robert Crim
<d...@openguitar.com> wrote:
>I no longer consider meeting the string in such a way that travel on
>the end of the finger is restricted to travel along the nail, because
>you cannot get full potential power that way, so I find that playing with
>nails helps greatly but does not completely solve the stated problems of
>playing without.
>
>Comments?
No nails playing requires a different stroke and strings with some
"tooth." Modern nylon strings are too smooth and lead to the problems
you described......especially with sweaty fingertips. Also some
players allow their tips to get firm and/calloused which makes things
worse. Many/most gut players in the lute world use a product to keep
their tips soft (this is getting to sound too sexy) such as "Pretty
Feet and Hands."
The nylgut strings seem to work well without the hassle of gut.
Robertus
Tommy Grand
> This is definitely a change of topic, so, new thread:
>
> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:27:33 -0800, Tommy Grand wrote:
> > Friends,
>
>
> > This guy recorded a Pujol CD, but also has another very interesting
> > product: a live recording of Hector Garcia playing Giuliani's concerto,
> > Op 30.
>
> > Enjoy,
> > TG
>
> I heard Hector Garcia play a concerto with orchestra (40+?) years ago.
> I think it was Carulli, but it might have been Giuliani. He played
> without nails, and he confirmed my strong negative opinion about playing
> without nails because his fingers were sweaty so that sometimes they would
> slip on the string and produce a weak tone and other times they would
> grab and pull the string away from the top and give a bad snap. For
> the most part he played well but there was this problem.
>
> I no longer deprecate playing without nails so much, but I still see
> sweaty fingertips as a problem when not using nails. I know that
> playing more on the side of the finger helps somewhat by presenting the
> fingerprint ridges at a greater angle, and I think
> practicing tech for work on strokes especially at loud levels helps also,
> by promoting better control of starting friction.
>
> I no longer consider meeting the string in such a way that travel on
> the end of the finger is restricted to travel along the nail, because
> you cannot get full potential power that way, so I find that playing with
> nails helps greatly but does not completely solve the stated problems of
> playing without.
>
> Comments?
>
Well I bought the disc daveA, once I've heard it I will report back.
Maybe post a 60 second clip to YouTube or something.
David Raleigh Arnold
Unfortunately, Segovia for example used both flesh and nail. In reality,
it's not either/or in many/most cases. Ruling out nylon does not break
my heart, because it sucks. I have no stats. Does anyone?
Regards, daveA
David Raleigh Arnold
Not comments about Hector Garcia, about no nails vs. nails. Regards, daveA
ktaylor
>
> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:27:33 -0800, Tommy Grand wrote:
> > Friends,
>
> better chord and arpeggio exercises. http://www.openguitar.com
Juan Mercadal played without nails for a long period and recorded an
album without nails. The album was not prized by Juan, I understand,
and the tone was very uneven (I have heard it).
Hector Garcia introduced Mario Abril to the guitar in prison. Mario
always used nails and is noted for his extraordinary tone.
Kevin T.
thomas
What were they incarcerated for?
ktaylor
> > > better chord and arpeggio exercises. http://www.openguitar.com
>
> > Juan Mercadal played without nails for a long period and recorded an
> > album without nails. The album was not prized by Juan, I understand,
> > and the tone was very uneven (I have heard it).
>
> > Hector Garcia introduced Mario Abril to the guitar in prison. Mario
> > always used nails and is noted for his extraordinary tone.
>
> What were they incarcerated for?
They were in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Traded for tractors by Kennedy
and performed in their prison band on the Ed Sullivan show.
Kevin T.
Tashi
And who says politics and music don't mix?
JonLorPro
On Dec 2, 7:05 pm, David Raleigh Arnold <d...@openguitar.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:27:33 -0800, Tommy Grand wrote:
> >> > Friends,
>
> >> > I stumbled upon this sitehttp://billbakerontheguitar.com/
>
> >> > This guy recorded a Pujol CD, but also has another very interesting
> >> > product: a live recording of Hector Garcia playing Giuliani's
> >> > concerto, Op 30.
> Not comments about Hector Garcia, about no nails vs. nails.
In listening to the clips on the bill baker site, it sounded to me as
though both his and Garcia's articulation occasionally sounded a bit
bogged down in a manner that seemed connected to the no nails techique
they were using. Other times it seemed due to other factors.
Perhaps then this is a comment which goes to the issue of "no nails
vs. nails", but alternatively, at some time within the last year or
year and half, someone posted a link to a decades ago recording by a
female guitarist as an example of what no nails playing can be like
(was it Anido? Sao Marcos? Anybody remember? I don't recall). What I
do remember is that the playing was sparkling, and did not seem in the
least impeded by the difference in friction. So, then the observation
becomes a comparitve comment on Garcia (and Baker).
I also was once privileged to spend an enjoyable afternoon with Juan
Mercadal at his home in the early '80's- his nails were so short that
his technique was nail-less, or nearly so, and his tone did not seem
uneven as a result. I don't know how that may collate with factors
affecting the recording that ktaylor mentioned, which Juan himself
reportedly did nor care for.
Then of course there is the familiar slew of contemporary lute players
who use no nails who sound great- but use a different right hand
approach, which opens up a whole new can of worms to consider.
In a post of mine a while ago which dealt in part with nails or no
nails, I made reference to articles by the following two guys- neither
of them thought to touch on the issue of string material which Robert
Crim raised, but they are interesting nonetheless for those looking
into this issue.
They are both notable as reversals of points of view one might
anticipate- the following being by a lutenist who plays _with_ nails:
http://g.rebours.free.fr/6E/6.With_or_without_nails.html
And the following is by a guitarist who makes the case for playing
guitar with_out_ nails.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Guitar-Lesson:-Can-You-Play-Classical-Guitar-Without-Nails?&id=138819
This same guitarist wrote a longer version with a different
enumeration of points in an article to which I now don't seem able to
find a link. That version appears below, and is the article I
researched when writing the post I mentioned. One thing that amused me
at the time was his point number 3.
"Is it possible to play classical guitar without nails? I guess so as
I often do it myself. Many guitarists today and in the past have also
done the same. Let me tell you the advantages of no nails playing and
give you some tips!
Sharon Isbin in her Classical Guitar Answer Book wrote...
"Classical guitarists can play without nails, but they should be aware
that in doing so they are sacrificing certain possibilities of tone
color and projection - all of which affect interpretation and musical
presentation."
I have played classical guitar and also improvisational jazz and blues
guitar for many years and have been teaching others professionally. I
have played with long nails, shorter nails and no nails at all.
I have seen guitar students struggling with their tone on the guitar.
Guitarists with problem nails, guitarists not taking care of their
nails and subsequently with a terrible tone and some guitarists with
perfect nails and still not a good tone because of faltering
technique.
I have also met guitarists that were playing without nails and I have
seen electric guitarists finger playing without nails like Mark
Knopfler and others.
As with nearly everything there are pros and cons with the different
approaches. I like playing without nails for these reasons:
1. It's a challenge to find the tone and get the most out of the
guitar playing without nails. You have to play with more force to find
the upper harmonics and you have to work even more with the guitar
technique. No sloppiness is allowed!
2. I like the sweet sound of my fingers touching the strings. The
sound created is mellow but the volume will still be satisfying if you
play with force and with calousses developed by practising.
3. There is a special feeling involved in letting living flesh touch
the strings on a guitar. You will come nearer the instrument somehow.
4. Of course you'll have the advantage of not risking to have your
nails broken as you don't depend on them anymore.
5. You will be able to play piano with correct finger posture.
6. You can play electric guitar with your fingers without risking to
destroy your nails.
I will now give you some of my own advice and experiences from playing
without nails.
You might find some more information on the net as there are many
other classical guitarists and lute players who want to play without
nails. Here are my personal hints:
1. It will take a week or so to build callouses on your fingertips
after having filed down your nails. This will improve your guitar
playing and tone but until then you have to be careful not to play so
intensely as to get blisters.
2. A way to build callouses is to play finger picking on electric
guitar or steel string guitar. I have experienced that my blues guitar
playing is much more musical and more dynamic as I play with my
fingers instead of with a pick on my electric guitar. Sometimes I use
to alternate between my thumb and index finger when playing scales and
licks and other times my index finger and middle finger or in another
classical guitar playing way.
3. You will get a softer and in many ways a more beautiful tone if you
cultivate your playing without nails. However you might miss some of
the higher frequencies. To compensate for this you can see to it that
you always play with fresh new strings and if you are a rich man you
might purchase a classical guitar with more treble and less bass.
4. When you use your nail sharpener (you should instead of just
clipping the nails off!) to keep your nails short you might as well
give your fingertips some grooming with the nail sharpener. This will
improve your tone and stimulate your finger tips to become harder.
5. As you practice exercises on your guitar you need to play slowly
and with a little more force to get a good tone. It is important that
you don't build tensions as you play. All musicians benefit from
learning relaxation techniques and stretching to prevent injuries.
6. Practice especially playing apoyando (support strokes) with all
your fingers and listen to the tone and try to improve it as part of
your playing.
If you feel that playing completely without nails is to hard for you,
you might after this test period let them grow but you can keep them a
lot shorter as your technique has improved. They will then work as the
claws of a cat. Mostly not used but still affecting your tone and
supporting your playing. As with long nails you will have to polish
them and take care of them.
There are many more things to say about playing guitar without nails
but personally this technique gives me a tone I like and an exciting
and rewarding challenge.
Peter Edvinsson is a musician, composer and music teacher. Visit his
site Capotasto Music and download your free printable sheet music and
guitar tablature at http://www.capotastomusic.com/.
Tommy Grand
> On Dec 2, 7:05 pm, David Raleigh Arnold <d...@openguitar.com> wrote:
>
> > >> On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:27:33 -0800, Tommy Grand wrote:
> > >> > Friends,
>
> > >> > I stumbled upon this sitehttp://billbakerontheguitar.com/
>
> > >> > This guy recorded a Pujol CD, but also has another very interesting
> > >> > product: a live recording of Hector Garcia playing Giuliani's
> > >> > concerto, Op 30.
> > Not comments about Hector Garcia, about no nails vs. nails.
>
> In listening to the clips on the bill baker site, it sounded to me as
> though both his and Garcia's articulation
Good call Jon, I didn't realize Garcia clips were available on the
Bill Baker site. No need for me to post anything then. To hear it
for youreslf go here: http://billbakerontheguitar.com/giuliani_concerto.htm
ktaylor
> Mercadal at his home in the early '80's- his nails were so short that
> his technique was nail-less, or nearly so, and his tone did not seem
> uneven as a result. I don't know how that may collate with factors
> affecting the recording that ktaylor mentioned, which Juan himself
> reportedly did nor care for.
>
The story that I heard, was that Juan had just returned from a month
without playing and was paid to do the recording by an admirer and
thus was just rusty. You can hear his excellent musicality on the
recording but the sound is pretty rough and uneven. I think it is the
only recording he ever made. I also heard he played concerti without
nails. He was from the Pujol tradition. Used the Sagreras books in his
teaching. I never studied with him or met him, but knew a number of
students of his and have heard his album. Matanya also has the
recording.
Kevin Taylor
RobMac
question of callouses. I've been playing without nails for twenty
years and have not developed callouses at all. My fingertips are soft
and smooth, and I do my best to maintain that by applying moisturiser.
I make no effort to make my flesh playing sound like nail playing - I
enjoy the difference between the two and do not try to minimise the
difference. Yes, there is some repertoire I avoid, but there is more
than enough to keep me busy for the rest of my life. Of course, you
may not like my tone, and that doesn't bother me at all, as I learned
the First Rule of performance a LONG time ago - you can only please
some of the people some of the time. I am pleased that you are
promoting flesh playing, but your advocacy of developing callouses is
not one I can go along with.
Rob MacKillop
JonLorPro
Dear Rob,
I fear you misapprehend my position- which is understandable if you
gave my post a cursory scan. But for that you would have discerned
that the promotion of flesh playing and the advocacy of developing
callouses are not mine, but are the views of someone else (Peter
Edvinsson), of whose writings on the general topic I was aware, and
thought them likely to be of interest to readers of this thread. I
should have done more visually to set the article as a quotation off
from my own comments, with some double lines or something; the reason
it was included as an entirety in my post at all is because though I
had saved it a while ago, I was not able again to find a link to the
article, as I did with another one by the same guy and for one by
someone else- whose recommendations are the opposite- and which links
I did put in my post.
However, as such it was a succesful posting as it was of sufficient
interest to stimulate your writing of your experience and observations
on the matter, which seem of the sort that DaveA called for at the top
of the thread. I have no such expertise in that niche; for myself I
am a confirmed nails player, and recommend using nails to my students-
but I would not discourage them from trying out flesh playing if they
wanted to. In fact I have one student now is is so young that I have
thought it best not to bother him with nail details as yet and have
allowed him to develop some rapport with the instrument before
broaching the subject. He is doing quite well.
As a listener, I am broadly accepting, results oriented and non-
partisan. On that note, as far as your tone and whether I like it,
having listened to you on YouTube, I do like it very much. I enjoyed
your recent posting of "Dowlands Dream", and admired your clear
articulation of the contrapuntal lines.
Your comments on callouses confirms what would be my speculations.
You seem very practical in having formulated your approach and
methods, but both historically and contemporaneously, some advocacy of
flesh playing seems predicated on a near mysticism as to an
impartation of spirit through the living touch, a vitality that would
yet be defeated by the unbreachable intervention of a nail. Edvinsson
seems near to suggesting such at one point in his article, but then
recommends the development of an insulating callous on the
fingertip?? Well- different strokes. I have no idea what his playing
is like but if he's happy, and he seems to be, I'm glad for him. I do
have an idea of what your playing is like, and I'm glad for you, too.
RobMac
Cheers,
Rob
David Raleigh Arnold
Thank you for this interesting post. I commend you for your
not taking a negative attitude with students who want to
try no-nail playing. I have recently come to advocate practicing both at
once. How can a person play at absolute max possible forte without
hurting himself but not give up the advantages of using nails? Only by
playing on the side of the finger without removing the nail, in a
way similar to the way bass players do. That stroke is only for
max forte and possibly whisper pianissimo.
Everything, so far, tends to convince me that calluses are good
for no-nails playing. One who practices the side-of-finger
technique that I have suggested for max forte playing will
develop calluses will he nill he on the sides of the fingers,
and that must have an effect on the ends.
Stretching builds strength, but relaxation techniques leave the
person who uses them ever more liable to injury.
thomas
>
> Good call Jon, I didn't realize Garcia clips were available on the
> Bill Baker site. No need for me to post anything then. To hear it
> for youreslf go here:http://billbakerontheguitar.com/giuliani_concerto.htm
God, what a terrible piece that is! It sounds like a Monty Python
parody of bad classical era music.