Is a $1500-$2000 Jose Ramirez worth it?
Vortex Rikers
I want to get a high quality student classical guitar and have been looking at
the Jose Ramirez R and E line. The R3 (or the 2E) is a fine guitar (I think)
but at 1500 to 2000 bucks I'm wondering if it would be better to go with a
top-of-the-line guitar from say Yamaha or Alvarez. I admit I'm swayed by the
Ramirez reputation. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Thanks,
Vortx
Jim String
I'm of the opinion that you ought to buy the guitar that sounds best to
you. Play them all, then choose. Sometimes you might be better served by
choosing a lesser, cheaper guitar that will do well enough for the next
year or two, saving the extra money toward the purchase of a much finer
guitar.
Every guitar has its virtues.
It also depends a bit on the circles in which you are travelling. A
lot of times, especially in competitive circles, crap like the kind
of car you drive can make a difference in the social circle. Yeah, it's
primitive and stupid but you might be served better careerwise with
a pretentious label. CGers are often a pretentious and vain lot.
Best,
Jim
Fourpieces
>at
>the Jose Ramirez R and E line. The R3 (or the 2E) is a fine guitar (I think)
>
>but at 1500 to 2000 bucks I'm wondering if it would be better to go with a
>top-of-the-line guitar from say Yamaha or Alvarez. I admit I'm swayed by the
>
>Ramirez reputation. I'd like to hear your opinions.
>
>
I think you should be swayed by the Ramirez name. There is nothing wrong with
that, they make some very good guitars. But like when purchasing anything, if
you do not think the guitar is worth the money... then you should not spend it.
I have a Ramirez R4 & IMHO it is a very fine student model guitar. To me
it's worth every cent I paid for it.
The main question you must ask yourself is if you feel any student model you
purchase is worth what you spend on it. Moreover, are the qualities of the
guitar, worth the money spent? -- How are the basses? the trebles? Is there a
balance in the sound? What is the quality of the sound? How does it feel in
your hands? What type of wood is it made of? Is it cedar or spruce? Do you
truly like the instrument?
Later on, after some of these issues are decided you may think on these lines
- If you later decide to re-sell the instrument will it retain a good portion
of its value? Has the instrument increased in price over the years or
decreased?
To some these are questions to be raised when 'investing' in a good quality
guitar. The decision is not an easy one, so I believe your right to question
name recognition. But again the bottom line is -- are you willing to spend X
amount of dollars for that particulr instrument.
Best,
Matthew
hogr...@my-dejanews.com
One thing to think of when buying a Ramirez guitar is the R1 through R4 is
not made by Ramirez. It is made for them and has their name on them. This is
not to say that they are not good student guitars, but for the money there
are better ones out there if you shop around. Also make sure you don't pay
full list price on any guitar, the profit margin is large and they will deal.
Also the R1 - R3 has laminated wood in parts of its guitar and there are
some for the same price with solid wood. name recognition means nothing
compared to how good it sounds and plays for you. doug
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six_st...@my-dejanews.com
> One thing to think of when buying a Ramirez guitar is the R1 through R4 is
> not made by Ramirez. It is made for them and has their name on them. This is
> not to say that they are not good student guitars, but for the money there
> are better ones out there if you shop around. Also make sure you don't pay
> full list price on any guitar, the profit margin is large and they will deal.
> Also the R1 - R3 has laminated wood in parts of its guitar and there are
> some for the same price with solid wood. name recognition means nothing
> compared to how good it sounds and plays for you. doug
I used to own one of the R series guitar. I sounds very decent for student
guitar. However, the only reason that make me want to buy that particular
guitar because it has Ramirez label. Now when I look back at it, I think i
made a wrong decision. The reason is that it cost a lot more than other
decent student guitars such as Aria, or Asturias. But the Aria has almost the
same or superior tonal quality than my Ramirez. I learned my lesson that I
should go fo r tone rather than brand name recognition. Doug brought up
another good point that you should not in any case pay full price to the
guitar dealer for a student guitar.
Bobby B
Adam Brown
construction.
Like you, I went for a Ramirez R1 based solely on the name and who plays and
had played them. Within one day, I had returned the guitar and picked up
another. The Ramirez sounded "tinny".
You could purchase a Spanish, hand-made (for the most part) guitar comprised
of solid cedar, Indian Rosewood and ebony, not laminated wood, for about
$1000 US
Try an Esteve; that's what I traded the Ramirez in for.
Use the saved money for lessons :)
Good Luck,
Adam
Vortex Rikers wrote in message <6pjhnc$ih5$1...@usenet36.supernews.com>...
>Hi,
>
>I want to get a high quality student classical guitar and have been looking
at
>the Jose Ramirez R and E line. The R3 (or the 2E) is a fine guitar (I
think)
>but at 1500 to 2000 bucks I'm wondering if it would be better to go with a
>top-of-the-line guitar from say Yamaha or Alvarez. I admit I'm swayed by
the
>Ramirez reputation. I'd like to hear your opinions.
>
>Thanks,
>Vortx
guit...@afn.org
Friend, I have seen (and played) very fine Ramirez and very poor
ones. The student guitars made by Ramirez are not the guitars that gave
Ramirez Company its reputation. My advice is, if you like the sound of
the guitar then get it. For $1500 you can get a good Takamine Herade or
a good Alvarez Yairi (make sure is not just an Alvarez) I have seen
Takamines 132S that sound great (the old ones) and they go for $500.
I have a Ramirez 1A that sounds great, these guitars are worth as
much as $7000. I have a guitar that sounds as good as my Ramirez and does
not even have a tag! I guided myself by the sound of it when I realize it
was a great guitar. Later, I found that this guitar was made by a Japanese
aprentice of Ramirez, no wonder!
Trust your ears and try several guitars to find which feels right
to you.
R. Lohengrin
six_st...@my-dejanews.com
guitar, please go to this site. It is very interesting.
http://www.pjguitar.com/cgint/dealer_prices.htm
Steve Roberts
love the s*&t out of it. My instructor is always grabbing it
from me to "demonstrate". A terrific value for the money.
It's not as finished as Japanese guitars, but the
sound........
Steve Roberts
Vortex Rikers
>>at
>>the Jose Ramirez R and E line. The R3 (or the 2E) is a fine guitar (I think)
>>
>>but at 1500 to 2000 bucks I'm wondering if it would be better to go with a
>>top-of-the-line guitar from say Yamaha or Alvarez. I admit I'm swayed by the
>>
>>Ramirez reputation. I'd like to hear your opinions.
>>
>>
>
>that, they make some very good guitars. But like when purchasing anything, if
>you do not think the guitar is worth the money... then you should not spend it.
>
> I have a Ramirez R4 & IMHO it is a very fine student model guitar. To me
>it's worth every cent I paid for it.
> The main question you must ask yourself is if you feel any student model you
>purchase is worth what you spend on it. Moreover, are the qualities of the
>guitar, worth the money spent? -- How are the basses? the trebles? Is there a
>balance in the sound? What is the quality of the sound? How does it feel in
>your hands? What type of wood is it made of? Is it cedar or spruce? Do you
>truly like the instrument?
> Later on, after some of these issues are decided you may think on these lines
>- If you later decide to re-sell the instrument will it retain a good portion
>of its value? Has the instrument increased in price over the years or
>decreased?
> To some these are questions to be raised when 'investing' in a good quality
>guitar. The decision is not an easy one, so I believe your right to question
>name recognition. But again the bottom line is -- are you willing to spend X
>amount of dollars for that particulr instrument.
Thanks for replying!
The Ramirez R3 is spruce topped but has a laminated rosewood back (solid
rosewood sides). Since you have an R4, how would you compare yours to a top
model Japanese guitar? Do you feel your Ramirez "student" guitar is better
built or has a better sound? I'm confident that any Ramirez guitar is of high
quality. I suppose I'm just wondering if a top model Yamaha or Takamini or
Alvarez Yairi is in the same league, or if Ramirez' makes guitars that are a
"cut above" these brands. I admit that as a student I'm not yet qualified to
make such a judgment...that's why I wanted to get some feedback here. With
$1500-2000 I'm going to end up with a bottom end Ramirez or a top-end Japanese
(or other model) guitar...any more opinions from you guys would be
appreciated!!! (BTW I'm VERY aware that a good guitar doesn't make a good
player...).
Vortx
Jim String
>appreciated!!! (BTW I'm VERY aware that a good guitar doesn't make a good
>player...).
Yeah, but it's hard to be a good player without a good guitar.
Best,
Jim
Henrik Ståhl
Jim String (pla...@not.replyable.com) wrote:
I agree. I was once on the verge on giving up the guitar altogether.
The reason was that my old guitar was difficult to tune well and
had a neck so worn that I often slipped off the neck when playing on
the first string. By chance, I stopped by a guitar store and played
some of their $1000+ models and all of a sudden "el testament D'Amelia" (?)
sounded great. A few days later, I bought a $1500 Hirade H-7 (everything's
expensive in Sweden...) for loaned money which I struggled hard to
pay back the following month, but it was definitely worth it.
/Henrik
hogr...@inreach.com
> player...).
>
>
The Ramirez guitars R1 though R4 are all cedar topped. To get a spruce top
in a Ramirez line you would have to go to the A1 or elite. Get the GSI
catalog and they show all the Ramirez guitars plus other makes. It is free
and can be ordered over the web. The prices shown are full retail which
should not be paid. Again the R1-R4 Ramirez are not made by Ramirez, they are
made for them to their specs and have their name in them. There are other
spanish guitars that are a better buy for the money. Look around and try
many. doug.
Vortex Rikers
>In article <6po80m$eo6$1...@usenet41.supernews.com>, Vortex Rikers wrote:
>>player...).
>
Hi Jim,
Oops. That's was the kind of answer I was afraid of. Do you have any
insights on the actual question? Low-end Ramirez or high-end production
guitar, which is a better choice?
Thanks a bunch in advance,
Vortx
cwh...@altaira.com
I tried to e-mail you with a personal reply to your query but it bounced
twice. I think you would be interested in what I have to say so please e-mail
me at
Chris Wheal
Vortex Rikers
>Dear Vortx,
>
>I tried to e-mail you with a personal reply to your query but it bounced
>twice. I think you would be interested in what I have to say so please e-mail
>me at
Hiya,
The spam load is too high to use a real email...sorry. I emailed you
separately, but feel free to post here where everyone can benefit from your
comments. I'm looking at Cordoba, Contreras and Sanchis too. This is a tough
decision....
Vortx
Fourpieces
Vortx,
>The Ramirez R3 is spruce topped but has a laminated rosewood back (solid
>rosewood sides). Since you have an R4, how would you compare yours to a top
>model Japanese guitar?
Well when I was looking for a good student model a few years back, I really
did not care for much of the guitars out there. I was searching in NYC at the
time & had not had much luck. What I've found is that the $1500 - 2000, price
range is a tricky area. Whereas,
there are a lot of guitars in that range that to me are simply not worth the
money. I did not really care for any of the high end Japanese models. To me
they were simply not worth the price tag.
> Do you feel your Ramirez "student" guitar is better
>built or has a better sound?
Well to me, my R4 is a cut above many of R4'S that are sold . I have yet
to find another that even comes close to what mine sounds like. Moreover, I've
had a good deal of people impressed by the particular R4 I own.
Here's what sold me on the my R4:
1) I felt the sound was excellent & I thought it would get even better once it
opened up.
2) The equalness of the basses & trebles was very good.
3) I liked the neck & it felt good in my hands.
4) The price was right (they've gone up a good deal since I purchased mine).
5) The name. To me if I wanted to re-sell the instrument, it would retain a
good portion of its value due to the Ramirez name.
>I'm confident that any Ramirez guitar is of high
>quality.
Well, like any guitar, they all may be built the same, but for some strange
reason some may sound better than others. They all may be consisitanly of "good
or hight quality", but certain guitars might have that extra something.
> I suppose I'm just wondering if a top model Yamaha or Takamini or
>Alvarez Yairi is in the same league, or if Ramirez' makes guitars that are a
>"cut above" these brands.
To me, the Ramirez's are better quality instruments. But I think the prices
these days are getting a bit over the top. When you start getting to the $3000
range as I have seen, you may be able to find a better instrument. But ask
someone else & you could get a different answer. I liked the Hiradi guitars
(top of the line Takamini?) when I was shopping for student models. But the guy
selling it wouldn't deal, so I fell for this particular Ramirez.
> I admit that as a student I'm not yet qualified to
>make such a judgment...that's why I wanted to get some feedback here.
Don't rush to judgement here. You know what you like in the sound & feel of a
guitar better than anyone else. So you may actually be the best judge. But
don't buy the first thing you see, be picky, use your ears & ask for feedback
like your doing. I've had friends whom are 'qualified' to pick instruments for
themselves are 'snuckered' by certain qualities of guitars. Later, they found
the guitars weren't worth the money, or the guitar did not perform as they
thought it might.
>(BTW I'm VERY aware that a good guitar doesn't make a good
>player...).
True, but a good guitar does help make a player sound a bit better.
BTW, I'm curious as to were you have been looking at some guitars. Let me know.
Happy hunting.
Best,
Matthew
hsalce...@gmail.com
Steven Bornfeld
> Cipres #7887 Jose Ramirez guitar
Model number, date and condition would help a bit.
Steve Freides
> I have a Cipres #7887 Jose Ramirez guitar. I am moving out of the
> country and I would like to sell it. It comes with a nice case $1,000
state and city, even.
-S-
edua...@hotmail.com
I love both the Japanese guitars and Ramirez. Although they are quite different.
I have a Yamaha Grand Concert ( GC42C ), and it is smaller ( but still 665 mm ) and has less tension in the strings than the guitars made in Spain. It is really comfortable and has an extremely sweet sound. I have the impression that to play with this guitar is easier, I find sooner the solutions to all the problems.
My Ramirez 1A is bigger ( 660 mm ), more heavy, and I prefer to play it with medium tension strings ( as Segovia ) because hard tension makes this big instrument too hard, unconfortable and with little sustain. The sound is more robust and virile, very noble and beautiful, but less easy for both hands.
It would be better if you try both instruments before buying. Finally it is a very personal decision.
And last but not least: most classical guitars are revalued and go up in price over time. If you buy something now and decide to sell it later, probably you will earn some money ( as I made with both student and concert guitars ).
Hope it helps,
Eduard V. Agulló