OT:Obama's Disastarous 'Summer of Recovery'
doug
we're now well over half way through what the White House called "the
summer of recovery." And what a recovery it's been.
Earlier this month, first-time claims for unemployment hit a nine-
month high. The unemployment rate remains at 9.5% and 18.4% of workers
are out of a job, can only get part-time work, or have given up
looking for a job altogether. Sales of existing homes dropped 27% from
June to July, hitting the lowest point since data were first collected
in 1999. The Conference Board's Consumer Confidence Index fell to 50.4
in July, continuing a slide that started in February. And the stock
market is down 11% from its peak in April.
All of this has helped shatter public confidence in the president. In
early May, Mr. Obama's approval on the economy in the YouGov/
Polimetrix poll was 42%. By mid-August, it was 35%—a frightening
number for Democrats less than 70 days from a midterm election.
According to this week's Reuters poll, 72% are "very" worried about
jobs and 67% "very concerned" about government spending.
Mr. Obama's credibility is crumbling, and for good reason: He and his
people are saying things people don't believe. At the start of his
summer of recovery road show, the president flatly asserted that last
year's massive stimulus package had "worked." Vice President Joe
Biden, not to be outdone, promised monthly job gains of up to 500,000
and insisted that the recovery's pace "continues to increase, not
decrease" as stimulus spending was "moving into its highest gear."
It's slightly surreal. "Who are you going to believe," as Groucho Marx
once said, "me or your own eyes?"
edspyhill01
dofrenzy
> Any recommendations for rechargeable LED Music Stand Light?
We should send a bunch to doug for review. He's an excellent writer.
Lutemann
Not say that you are a effing moron, but you are an effing moron. I
believe the overwhelming majority of economists said the recession
would last at least five years. We didn't go into a depression
because of the Bush/Obama bailouts which is where the teabaggers would
have taken us. There are economist who disagree with the Obama
approach, but who knows who is right. The economy is a chaotic system
that no one has anything like a complete understanding. If we are
not completely out of the recession by 2013, we will know that Obama
was wrong.
John LaCroix
What I find amazing is that if the teabaggers had their way we would,
as you say, be now in the
middle of a depression. And guess what segment of the population would
terribly affected? Not the rich of
course but the teabaggers. They should be careful what they wish for.
John L.
doug
I may be an effing moron, but like I have told you in the past you are
a fucking moron.
If you so strongly believe the overwhelming majority of economists
said the recession would last at least five years, supply me with at
least 3 reports by a known economist. I know of no recession that has
lasted five years, please name one period in time that happened. And
don't say the 40's, that was a depression where the only way Roosevelt
could get us out of it was a war. Reagan got us out of carters
recession in a year, then went on to one of the greatest growths in
the history of this country. I know, I know, liberals don't like to
credit Reagan with anything. It must hurt to see what failure the
demon's have been compared to the reps.
You are great at making up shit but seldom if ever back up anything
that you say. Now here is your chance.
wollybird
>
> - Show quoted text -
You forget Reagan ran a hell of a deficit, cut taxes and increased
spending, to accomplish that. I think the problem today probably has
to do with not enough federal spending, not too much, if you just use
Keynes GDP formula.
I'm usually not in favor of such things, but you don't ordinarily
take
a shot of adrenalin to the heart when you are feeling fine. I am
surprised with a super majority, Obama can't do everything he wants
dofrenzy
>
> I may be an effing moron, but like I have told you in the past you are
> a fucking moron.
>
I'm going to have to give this one to doug. A fucking moron is much
more direct than just an effing moron. Saying "effing" leaves it open
to interpretation. Is he a finagling moron? A farting moron? A
fluting, flouting, or floating moron? To much wiggle room there.
"Fucking" moron wins this round.
Round 2. Keep your hands up and come out effing! DING-DING!
dofrenzy
>
> supply me with at least 3 reports by a known economist.
>
For clarification, can it be any known economist or should they only
be the really, really famous ones?
Douglas Seth
>
> - Show quoted text -
If the economy and unemployment isn't better, Obama will be an ex-
president by 2013, but that is a pretty sweet gig anyways. It doesn't
matter what happens at this point, it is this simple-if the economy
rebounds with new jobs and growthby Sept. 2012 , Obama is reelected.
If unemployment isn't better and the economy is still sputtering,
there will most certainly be a new president. It's the economy-
stupid!
Douglas Seth
>
> - Show quoted text -
Reagan made Americans proud to be Americans again. We need that as
much as anything right now. I was just a kid in the Reagan years and
remember voting for him in school elections! I don't understand why
people don't like paying less taxes. Why anyone wants a tax hike is
beyond me? We are going to send the wealthy, who already pay tons for
taxes, right out of this country at this point. We need an efficient
government that uses taxpayer money wisely, not more taxes.
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Making Americans proud to be Americans is VERY expensive and usually
involves war and the associated war spending. What is it about our
American culture that somebody has to die in order for Americans proud
to be Americans. It started with Reagan. Senile Reagan was
ducktapped to the president's chair and the country was run by the neo-
cons. We have been subjected to supply-side, neo-conservative
economics since Reagan and we are the worse for it. George H.W. said
it was voodoo economics and it was and still is.
The Tea Potters are the republican shock troops sent out to soften up
Americans so they accept the dissolution of S.S., Medicare, Medicaid,
Unemployment funds and all other social welfare programs, yet accept
constant war, constant occupation of foreign countries, an ever-
increasing defense funding bills, no taxes for corporations and the
rich. Welcome to the 17th century.
catpandaddy
"Douglas Seth" <dougla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ebd5633b-c6f5-44ab...@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
And people will continue to believe that a market-driven economy is somehow
under the complete control of either the president or of Congress. Try to
explain to them that it simply does not work that way, and they won't
listen, because such people never change their minds.
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why are the "wealthy" so immature that they get angry and want to
leave America when we tax them the same as everybody else? How many
are actually involved in job creation? Most are Corporate managers
with no hiring responsibilities.
Small business creates the most jobs and they are far below the
"wealthy" $10 Million income level of taxes that go back to the level
they paid 10 years ago - from 35% back to 39%. And this is only on
income OVER $10 million, not ALL their income.
Why do you accept the "wealthy" behaving in such an immature way yet
the 95% of the rest of us are expected to happily pay our taxes on
income earned?
Plus, these Bush tax cuts were passed under reconciliation and were
not "paid" for. In order to get the tax cuts passed they had to
aggree on them expiring after 10 years. They expire Dec 31, 2010.
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
We outsourced most of our jobs. In other words, there are not enough
jobs out there in America. There are very few middle-class jobs out
there, mostly minimum wage. We got Engineering people with advanced
degrees sitting next to high school kids filling out job applications
for McDonalds.
Neo-con economics caused this by giving tax subsidies to American
corporations for outsourcing jobs, most of the manufacturing sectors
and now the service sectors.
wollybird
> "Douglas Seth" <douglasse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Wouldn't be market driven if it was. The Gov't can do a lot
to influence it though. It is 30% of the economy after all, and makes
and enforces (or not) the rules. The Fed also contolls short term
interest rates.
catpandaddy
"edspyhill01" <edspy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d76daddf-813f-48ee...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Jobs are created by entrepreneurship. Notice that there are some occasions
where legal immigration will actually result in increased employment,
because many who come here want to start their own businesses. And when
they do, they hire locally, and as many do so across racial lines as not.
wollybird
>
> - Show quoted text -
Regan had one of the most peaceful terms in office in the 20th
century- and there still was a cold war, which was more like WWIII
fought by proxy. Gorbachev certainly didn't think he was senile (nor
did anyone else who actually worked with him that I know of).
GW referred to the Laffer curve as voodoo economics- the
relationship
between tax rates and total government receipts wasn't Laffer's idea,
it was Keynes, and it was the Kennedy (JK Galbreath that great
liberal
thinker and adviser to JFK was a supporter, btw) administration that
first used it as a tool for fiscal policy. I worked under both
administrations
dsi...@hawaiiantel.net
Doug's simple request is disingenuous on several levels. For one he
doesn't know any known economist. Another thing is that he's using
redirection as a stalling tactic. Another thing is that he wouldn't
understand any report by known or unknown economists. Another thing is
that economists cannot foretell the future - they just want you to
believe that they can. Another thing is that he doesn't really care
about the economy - mostly, Obama rubs him the wrong way. How about a
nice game of chess?
catpandaddy
"ds...@usenet-news.net" <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:jeAdo.75359$1F6....@newsfe01.iad...
> On 8/26/2010 7:38 AM, dofrenzy wrote:
>> On Aug 26, 12:21 pm, doug<hogrid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> supply me with at least 3 reports by a known economist.
>>>
>>
>> For clarification, can it be any known economist or should they only
>> be the really, really famous ones?
>
> Doug's simple request is disingenuous on several levels. For one he
> doesn't know any known economist. Another thing is that he's using
> redirection as a stalling tactic. Another thing is that he wouldn't
> understand any report by known or unknown economists. Another thing is
> that economists cannot foretell the future - they just want you to believe
> that they can.
One caveat to the last sentence: The worthwhile economists know that they
are not fortune-tellers, and they come clean about it.
Steven Bornfeld
Hey--pick your favorite country!
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_com_of_tax_per_inc_tax-taxation-components-personal-income-tax
Steve
dsi...@hawaiiantel.net
You're right. I have a classmate that holds a prominent position as
chief economist at our local bank. He's a pretty humble guy that gives
prudently worded forecasts whenever he's on the telly. He always
presents this as a best guess forecast and will always explain why he
thinks this will occur. I suppose that's the most we should expect from
economists.
I like to use my wife as a bellwether of the mood of the people. Her
fears and perceptions of the economy appear to mirror most of the
country. It's remarkable!
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dude! You forgot the Iran-Contra debacle, and the Reagan admin's
paternalistic approach to South American. You know, the steps that
preceed, prepare andcause wars are just as deadly and just as
egregious. We armed Iran and helped increase the cocaine production
and trade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
How about Star Wars? A complete waste of money and meant only to
provoke Russian and China. I worked for GE at the time and we had a
few of those contracts. People came to work and slept because it was
a complete boondoggle.
Like I said, Americans love war, as long as somebody else fights it,
fights it on foreign soil, we get access to natural resources, and a
bunch of other people die.
You bring up JFK: I think he was about to shut down the Vietnam war
and maybe even the CIA, so he was assassinated. People like JFK who
experienced war first hand don't have the stomach for wars of
adventure, wars for profit.
edspyhill01
wrote:
I'd like to see him read and digest anything from the Cato Institute.
edspyhill01
I can see him sitting surrounded by a bunch of the lights talking in
tongues.
dsi...@hawaiiantel.net
I used to listen to NPR and I'd always think of the Green Hornet
whenever they said "Cato Institute" which I heard as Kato Institute.
I'll check it out the web site although I might be risking getting a
brain hemorrhage and croaking. :-)
Lutemann
Yes Reagan made us proud of being stupid. BTW, high tax country,
Germany, is back to full employment again; they are out of the
recession. Nothing like high taxes, high wages and regulating the
criminal class.
wollybird
>
> - Show quoted text -
no they're not. They are at 7.6% unemployment. Their taxes are higher
than ours (45% vs 35% top bracket), but you need to include state,
sales and property taxes to get apples and apples- it ain't that
different
Lutemann
wrote:
People don't like Obama because he's black and yet superior to any
white male Republican. Obama is the first president in my lifetime
who isn't a goof-ball.
dsi...@hawaiiantel.net
Ha ha, you said "goof-ball." Doug would probably like to make Obama
disappear, but not because he's black or anything:
http://www.theonion.com/video/man-attempts-to-assassinate-obama-but-not-because,17220/
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
It is a Neo-Conservative think tank. When I was a practicing Neo-Con
it was one of my touchstones.
wollybird
>
> - Show quoted text -
libertarian, not neocon
here is the neocon site:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
doug
do you realize how fucking stupid this makes you sound.
William D Clinger
> Yes Reagan made us proud of being stupid.
Where I come from, we've always been proud.
Will
dsi1
It's depressing to think that the Neo-cons these days present themselves
as ignorant redneck hicks. I miss the days of the old staunch
republicans but these are the times we're in.
dsi1
I think you're right about this - after all it's NPR we're talking
about. :-)
Slogoin
Where I come from, we're proud to have proved that the difference
between actors and politicians is language inaction.
Douglas Seth
>
> - Show quoted text -
This really isn't a fair statement. I mean W was a bit of a goof
ball, Clinton was Rhodes scholar I believe, H W was a pretty smart
guy and was very prepared for the job of president. I am an
independent at this point. Reagan is a top 15 president and in the
very good to near great catagory. Liberals don't like it, but you
can't change history. There are plenty of GOPs on Obama's
intellectual level. I agree, I don't think he is a goof ball, but I
don't agree with everything he has done either. I don't like high
taxes and government intruding into my life anymore than necessary, if
that makes me conservative, then so be it.
Douglas Seth
>
> - Show quoted text -
Most people in this country don't need a president's help in acting
stupid. Germany is basically a socialist country, no thanks.
doug
yes, but that is what luteman wants. higher taxes more government
control, our lives being run and regulated by big brother. What else
would you expect from someone who has lived in a isolated
environment with his every paycheck from taxpayer money.
Slogoin
> Reagan is a top 15 president and in the
> very good to near great catagory.
So you think he was a better president than actor, eh?
> Liberals don't like it, but you
> can't change history.
Unless you're on the Texas School Board.
Slogoin
Kent is really Glenn Beck??????
catpandaddy
"doug" <hogr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c0c0820-dc01-4aa2...@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Why so angry all the time. Definitely something you should talk out, unless
cussing at people is what actually makes you happy in life.
catpandaddy
"Douglas Seth" <dougla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:644fa739-aa31-492a...@l6g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
And yet their cars are pretty sweet.
daveA
> In what will rank as one of the all-time presidential P.R. disasters,
The problem is that the worst policies are the ones that both
Republicans and Democrats cling to in common, but
Republicans cling to them more tightly. Obama
has rebuilt the house of cards, which is exactly what you
wanted done. No one is calling for restoration of basic
industries with tarriff protection for keeping wages up and
bringing our standard of living back up. It's been lower
than Italy's for quite a while.
China has *by far* the largest GNP in the world. Most of
the US GNP is nothing but 'value added' from marking
up Chinese made goods. IOW the gummint
lies about out pathetic GNP.
There's no recovery because there's no *basis* for one.
Republicans advocate the exact opposite of what should
be done, and rest assured they will do nothing positive,
ever.
Regards, daveA
Andrew Schulman
> ...Most of
> the US GNP is nothing but 'value added' from marking
> up Chinese made goods. IOW the gummint
> lies about out pathetic GNP.
>
>
Andrew
Slogoin
>
> The problem is that the worst policies are the ones that both
> Republicans and Democrats cling to in common, but
> Republicans cling to them more tightly. Obama
> has rebuilt the house of cards, which is exactly what you
> wanted done. No one is calling for restoration of basic
> industries with tarriff protection for keeping wages up and
> bringing our standard of living back up. It's been lower
> than Italy's for quite a while.
>
> China has *by far* the largest GNP in the world. Most of
> the US GNP is nothing but 'value added' from marking
> up Chinese made goods. IOW the gummint
> lies about out pathetic GNP.
>
> There's no recovery because there's no *basis* for one.
> Republicans advocate the exact opposite of what should
> be done, and rest assured they will do nothing positive,
> ever.
> Regards, daveA
Hey, not bad, Dave. :-)
daveA
> "edspyhill01" <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d76daddf-813f-48ee...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 26, 2:03 pm, Douglas Seth <douglasse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jobs are created by entrepreneurship.
Reestablishing basic industries requires an unholy alliance of
investors and govt. The reality is that small business feeds
on the scraps that big businesses leave, and what we need now is big
businesses, American owned, manufacturing in this country
for buyers here, not for export.
We should be willing to employ *any* means to get it done,
but Republicrats are unwilling to even consider doing anything
but messing with their financiers who do nothing but push paper
around.
The old wheeze about small business generating all the jobs
has worn out. That well has gone dry. The few jobs thus generated
are below the poverty level because the small businesses
are under pressure too. Regards, daveA
wollybird
You really should read this
http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/06/15/krugman-on-trade-and-inequality/
Protectionism would just make the vast majoriity of us a lot poorer.
edspyhill01
You say that but do you know how the healthcare system works in
Germany? Give your understanding of how it works.
edspyhill01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Maybe they are rednecks.
Miguel de Maria
Does that have to do with the Hofstadter?
Miguel de Maria
Wow, Dave, that was a good one out of left field there.
Just so everyone remembers, there was a candidate who had a different
stand on the issues:
http://www.votenader.org/issues/
daveA
> Protectionism would just make the vast majoriity of us a lot poorer.
When we had it, we had a much better life. The article lies. It
has to be done right though, and it never has been.
There is no choice. It's either protectionism or continuing the
race to the bottom. Regards, daveA
ktaylor
> On Aug 26, 11:21 am, doug <hogrid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 26, 8:46 am, Lutemann <lutem...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > In what will rank as one of the all-time presidential P.R. disasters,
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> spending, to accomplish that. I think the problem today probably has
> to do with not enough federal spending, not too much, if you just use
> Keynes GDP formula.
> I'm usually not in favor of such things, but you don't ordinarily
> take
> a shot of adrenalin to the heart when you are feeling fine. I am
> surprised with a super majority, Obama can't do everything he wants- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Even with the heavy spending, wasn't the percentage take of the GDP
from Govt. slightly less when Reagan left office due to the expansion
of the economy due to tax cuts?
Kevin T.
daveA
That "expansion" was all for the financiers and all paper. Our
manufacturing base shrank. Our *real* economy shriveled.
And the presidents who followed, all of them, stuck to the
same insane policies. Regards, daveA
wollybird
>
> - Show quoted text -
It would look as if it dropped a bit in the 90's
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
Richard Yates
>> You forget Reagan ran a hell of a deficit, cut taxes and increased
>> spending, to accomplish that. I think the problem today probably has
>> to do with not enough federal spending, not too much, if you just use
>> Keynes GDP formula.
>> I'm usually not in favor of such things, but you don't ordinarily
>> take
>> a shot of adrenalin to the heart when you are feeling fine. I am
>> surprised with a super majority, Obama can't do everything he wants- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Even with the heavy spending, wasn't the percentage take of the GDP
>from Govt. slightly less when Reagan left office due to the expansion
>of the economy due to tax cuts?
>Kevin T.
Lots of great interactive charts here:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_deficit
Richard