Is Jewel a Christian?
Ptrianta31
calls herself or practices Christianity. I do know she was raised as a Mormon
until she was 8, and some of the lyrics to her songs sound spiritual, but I was
wondering if anyone could confirm her faith, if any. Interested in any
responses. Thanks!
Pete
Coyote Art
Many Jewel/Oscos became Lucky/Sav-Ons, recently, I believe the parent
company, Affiliated Foods, was bought by Albertson's, forming a huge
chain of supermarkets and drug stores.
Wasn't it great when the Blues Brothers drove through that Jewel
attached to the shopping mall?
"I am the Commander-In-Chief..." Bill Clinton April 15,1999
<www.angelfire.com/nm/COYOTEART/index.html>
JJMcClure
Doubt non-Midwesterners will get it, though.
Special Jewel Preferred Card sales this week, btw.
- Joliet Jim
"The new Oldsmobiles are out!"
"Yah!"
- The Blues Brothers
Mad Hatter (Shane)
Christianity. The pope is just a man, and Catholicism and Christianity are two VERY
different things.
Ptrianta31 wrote:
--
-Shane (http://www.primenet.com/~watsonaz)
"When you're not desperate, the world comes to you."
MSJanke
>
>I will never understand why people associate the pope (lowercase p) with
>Christianity. The pope is just a man, and Catholicism and Christianity are
>two VERY
>different things.
Uhh.. no they're not. Catholicism is a part of Christianity, just as the
protestant and orthodox churches are. I firmly believe that there are many,
many true believers in the Catholic church. We believe in the same core
doctrines. I would never be so arrogant as to say God doesn't view Catholics
as true Christians. Only he truely knows their hearts and would be able to
judge something like that. We can, however, look at their fruit. The Bible
says we'll be known by our fruit. And I know quite a few Catholics who I
totally embrace as fellow members of the body of Christ. I've seen their lives
and I know that Jesus is living in them. Who are some notable Christian
personalities you could look to.... how about Chuck Colson, Brennan Manning,
Margaret Becker. Rich Mullins had strong Catholic ties, if memory serves. I
think those are correct, and there are more.
You obviously have issues here. You wont even capitolize the word "Pope." I
hope and suggest that you really search your heart on this and pray that God
speaks to you here. There are practices in their church which I disagree with,
but blanket statements like you made above are very dangerous.
Michael Janke
Visit Cindy Morgan NET:
http://members.aol.com/MSJanke/cindy
=============================
My new nightly ritual:
The Late Late Show, With Craig Kilborn
Jerry B. Ray
Mad Hatter (Shane) <wats...@primenet.com> wrote:
>I will never understand why people associate the pope (lowercase p) with
>Christianity. The pope is just a man, and Catholicism and Christianity are two VERY
>different things.
Well, now, there's a flamewar we haven't had very often. Thanks!
JRjr
--
%%%%% vap...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Hope springs eternal once in awhile"
-- Mark Heard, "Another Day In Limbo" --
clive
>
> I will never understand why people associate the pope
> (lowercase p) with Christianity. The pope is just a
> man, and Catholicism and Christianity are two VERY
> different things.
woah.. spawn of ian paisley and jack t chick is now
reading this group....
> -Shane
clive
snail
>Mad Hatter (Shane) wrote:
>> man, and Catholicism and Christianity are two VERY
>> different things.
But, but they both start with the same letter...and if you cut
off the last three letters of both you have catholic and christian.
Numbers can be fun.
>woah.. spawn of ian paisley and jack t chick is now
>reading this group....
Not quite a coffee through nose experience but working up to it :)
--
snail | sn...@careless.net.au | http://www.careless.net.au/~snail/
I'm a man of my word. In the end, that's all there is. - Avon
---------- [radio: http://www.careless.net.au/~misfits] ----------
Jason Steiner
>
> I will never understand why people associate the pope (lowercase p)
I love it when people make this claim,. If it's true, that means
that Christianity didn't _exist_ for the approximately 1200 years
between the formation of the Church and the Reformation.
jason
r.m.c's first resident atheist
--
"Any time of the day is a good time for pie." - Fabienne, Pulp Fiction
ja...@gaydeceiver.com http://www.gaydeceiver.com
Inky
I'm not a midwesterner and I got it... But, my parents are from Iowa.
-- Inky
---------------
Peter Thomas Chattaway
: Mad Hatter (Shane) <wats...@primenet.com> wrote:
: > I will never understand why people associate the pope (lowercase p)
: > with Christianity. The pope is just a man, and Catholicism and
: > Christianity are two VERY different things.
:
: I love it when people make this claim,. If it's true, that means that
: Christianity didn't _exist_ for the approximately 1200 years between the
: formation of the Church and the Reformation.
That depends. The Roman Catholic Church, as an entity distinct from, say,
the Eastern Orthodox Church, didn't officially set up shop until the 11th
century. So, if this claim is true, as far as it goes and no further,
Christianity didn't exist *in western Europe* for about 450 years.
But if we apply the label "Roman Catholic" to everything post-Constantine
-- or if the Mad Hatter extends his comment and says that *Orthodoxy* and
Christianity are two VERY different things -- then yes, it would appear
Christianity as a whole fell into a deep coma for well over a millennium.
--
--- Peter T. Chattaway ------------------------ pet...@interchg.ubc.ca ---
No man is an Island, entire of it self... -- John Donne, Meditation XVII
I am a little world made cunningly... -- John Donne, Holy Sonnet V
snail
>On 18 Apr 1999 17:34:26 GMT, jjmc...@aol.com (JJMcClure) wrote:
>>Doubt non-Midwesterners will get it, though.
>I'm not a midwesterner and I got it... But, my parents are from Iowa.
We have Jewel in Oz as well, so I got it :)
stephen trachian
> Mad Hatter (Shane) <wats...@primenet.com> wrote:
> >
> > I will never understand why people associate the pope (lowercase p)
> > with Christianity. The pope is just a man, and Catholicism and
> > Christianity are two VERY different things.
>
> I love it when people make this claim,. If it's true, that means
> that Christianity didn't _exist_ for the approximately 1200 years
> between the formation of the Church and the Reformation.
Come on Jason. You should know your Baptist history better than that. :)
stephen
Mad Hatter (Shane)
don't believe in praying to other humans who are just as flawed as I am. Don't get
me wrong, Joseph, Mary, Peter, etc. are all very worthy of respect and admiration,
but they are NOT deities, and neither is the pope. The pope is simply a man, whom
many people mistakenly shower with the praise and worship that should be devoted to
the one true God.
MSJanke wrote:
> Uhh.. no they're not. Catholicism is a part of Christianity, just as the
> protestant and orthodox churches are. I firmly believe that there are many,
> many true believers in the Catholic church. We believe in the same core
> doctrines. I would never be so arrogant as to say God doesn't view Catholics
> as true Christians. Only he truely knows their hearts and would be able to
> judge something like that. We can, however, look at their fruit. The Bible
> says we'll be known by our fruit. And I know quite a few Catholics who I
> totally embrace as fellow members of the body of Christ. I've seen their lives
> and I know that Jesus is living in them. Who are some notable Christian
> personalities you could look to.... how about Chuck Colson, Brennan Manning,
> Margaret Becker. Rich Mullins had strong Catholic ties, if memory serves. I
> think those are correct, and there are more.
>
> You obviously have issues here. You wont even capitolize the word "Pope." I
> hope and suggest that you really search your heart on this and pray that God
> speaks to you here. There are practices in their church which I disagree with,
> but blanket statements like you made above are very dangerous.
>
> Michael Janke
> Visit Cindy Morgan NET:
> http://members.aol.com/MSJanke/cindy
> =============================
> My new nightly ritual:
> The Late Late Show, With Craig Kilborn
--
MSJanke
No Catholic that I know would do that.
>I don't believe in praying to other humans who are just as flawed as I am.
Again, not all Catholics do that.
>Don't get
>me wrong, Joseph, Mary, Peter, etc. are all very worthy of respect and
>admiration,
>but they are NOT deities, and neither is the pope. The pope is simply a man,
>whom
>many people mistakenly shower with the praise and worship that should be
>devoted to
>the one true God.
Of course the Pope is only a man. "Many" people may make the mistake that you
mention, but not all of them. Your mistake is to quanitify the entire Catholic
church with this extreme stereotype that you have. I know many firm
Bible-believing Catholics who do not do the things which you have just
mentioned. To them, the Pope is just a man who is the leader of their church,
like Protestant denominations also have. He's a spiritual leader, but no more
than that. And there's nothing wrong with respecting a man like that. I do the
same with a man like Billy Graham.
Again I say: be careful. God judges the heart, not you. The Catholic church
does have many problems in their theology and traditions, imo. I would never,
personally, become a Catholic. But nor would I ever say that Catholicism is
not a Christian faith. In spite of their problems we do serve the same God. I
KNOW that there are many Catholics who we'll see in heaven. I guarantee you
that will be true. You dont have to "embrace" Catholicism, but you do need to
realize that many of your personal biases against it are extreme and do not
typify everyone in their church. Catholicism has problems in its structure,
but many Protestant demoninations do as well. I daresay that there is no ONE
denomination that has perfectly worked out their theology and has the perfect
doctrines on every single issue out there. Some may be closer than others, but
that doesnt mean that those others are not part of the Body (as long as the
core doctrines are solid, and the Catholic church qualifies).
Jillian Marie Graves
catholics don't worship saints as dieties--they are venerated which is
different and acknowledges their humanity--i think it's always
problematic when protestants scapegoat catholics as somehow inferior or
deluded but i guess it's just the same old shit that some christians do
to everyone else who has a different belief system (people who think
that their little rock bands are more enlightened than Gandhi or the
Dalai Lama or something)
In <371E41CA...@primenet.com> "Mad Hatter (Shane)"
<wats...@primenet.com> writes:
>
>I will NEVER embrace a religion which puts HUMAN "saints" on par with
Jesus. I
>don't believe in praying to other humans who are just as flawed as I
am. Don't get
>me wrong, Joseph, Mary, Peter, etc. are all very worthy of respect and
admiration,
>but they are NOT deities, and neither is the pope. The pope is simply
a man, whom
>many people mistakenly shower with the praise and worship that should
be devoted to
>the one true God.
>
>
>> Michael Janke
>> Visit Cindy Morgan NET:
>> http://members.aol.com/MSJanke/cindy
>> =============================
>> My new nightly ritual:
>> The Late Late Show, With Craig Kilborn
>
>
>
saul_...@hotmail.com
jgra...@ix.netcom.com(Jillian Marie Graves) wrote:
> okay i'm not a devout catholic or anything but you know madhatter
> catholics don't worship saints as dieties--they are venerated which is
> different and acknowledges their humanity--i think it's always
> problematic when protestants scapegoat catholics as somehow inferior or
> deluded but i guess it's just the same old shit that some christians do
> to everyone else who has a different belief system (people who think
> that their little rock bands are more enlightened than Gandhi or the
> Dalai Lama or something)
Gandhi or Dalai Lama can't play like Adam Jones or Tom Morello, and
that's that.
For those of you who have no idea who I'm talking about, those would be
the guitarists of Tool and Rage Against the Machine, respectively.
Saul Sabia
saul_...@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~saul_sabia
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
roys...@my-dejanews.com
saul_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <7fm4vf$q...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
> jgra...@ix.netcom.com(Jillian Marie Graves) wrote:
> > that their little rock bands are more enlightened than Gandhi or the
> > Dalai Lama or something)
>
> Gandhi or Dalai Lama can't play like Adam Jones or Tom Morello, and
> that's that.
"Enlightened" = "Play" ? 8)
Roy
Mad Hatter (Shane)
MSJanke wrote:
> I
> KNOW that there are many Catholics who we'll see in heaven. I guarantee you
> that will be true. You dont have to "embrace" Catholicism, but you do need to
> realize that many of your personal biases against it are extreme and do not
> typify everyone in their church. Catholicism has problems in its structure,
> but many Protestant demoninations do as well. I daresay that there is no ONE
> denomination that has perfectly worked out their theology and has the perfect
> doctrines on every single issue out there. Some may be closer than others, but
> that doesnt mean that those others are not part of the Body (as long as the
> core doctrines are solid, and the Catholic church qualifies).
>
>
I never said at any point in any of my messages that no Catholics were going to
heaven. What I DID state was:
1. The pope is a human, nothing more, nothing less.
2. HUMAN saints are not to be worshipped and put on a level with Jesus
3. Christianity and Catholicism are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS
I don't believe in saying Hail Marys 20 times because the God I worship isn't hard
of hearing!
Mad Hatter (Shane)
Oh please. WHERE, at WHAT POINT did I say ANYTHING about Catholics being
INFERIOR? You are totally paranoid. I never said ANYTHING of the kind. I
said that Catholicism and Christianity are two DIFFERENT things. Sheesh. At
least bother to read my message carefully before you fly off the handle.
> okay i'm not a devout catholic or anything but you know madhatter
> catholics don't worship saints as dieties--they are venerated which is
> different and acknowledges their humanity--i think it's always
> problematic when protestants scapegoat catholics as somehow inferior or
> deluded but i guess it's just the same old shit that some christians do
> to everyone else who has a different belief system (people who think
> that their little rock bands are more enlightened than Gandhi or the
> Dalai Lama or something)
>
-Shane (http://www.primenet.com/~watsonaz)
Asha'man
>that Christianity didn't _exist_ for the approximately 1200 years
>between the formation of the Church and the Reformation.
Hehehe.....someone seems to have gotten some people all worked up. I am
curious though, what does the above statement mean?
As far as whoever had the bunchy undies over pope not being capitalized, so
what? Why should it be? He is a man. Maybe a good man, but a man
nontheless.
Christianity IS a very different thing than Catholocism. That is why they
have different names! I know it is a hard rough rule, but there it is. Red
isn't pink......round isn't oval......
Asha'man
(Someone altogether different than say....the pope)
CALHOUN07
buckawows!
RCBRAY
to do, does anyone know whether (the singer) Jewel (for the tragically unfunny) is
a Christian or not? My wife has asked me that question on more than one occasion.
James Stewart
<URL:mailto:Ash_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Christianity IS a very different thing than Catholocism. That is why they
> have different names! I know it is a hard rough rule, but there it is. Red
> isn't pink......round isn't oval......
So what are protestantism, evangelicalism, anglicanism, methodism etc?
James.
--
James Stewart - ja...@britlinks.co.uk | "Telecom ignored us and
The Britlinks - http://www.britlinks.co.uk | democracy has died."
Phantom Tollbooth - http://www.tollbooth.org | -- Fat And Frantic
MSJanke
>to
>heaven. What I DID state was:
>
>1. The pope is a human, nothing more, nothing less.
>2. HUMAN saints are not to be worshipped and put on a level with Jesus
>3. Christianity and Catholicism are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS
*Sigh*
Bjarni Fridberg
Shinndog
the song "hands" (They play it on the radio here ALL the time) the first five
lines are:
If I could tell the world just one thing it would be
That we are all ok
And not to worry
Cuz worrying is wasteful and useless
In times like these
As a "Christian" wouldn't she tell the world that we are NOT all ok. That we
are all sinners, and that's why Jesus died for us on the cross. (Yes, it
would be hard to fit all that into the first two lines.....) Without Christ
EVERYONE should worry, because they will stand before GOD in their own
righteousness! (righteousness like filthy rags according to the bible.)
In article <37217141...@earthlink.net>,
--
-Shinndog
saul_...@hotmail.com
roys...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <7fonfb$ppt$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> saul_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > In article <7fm4vf$q...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
> > jgra...@ix.netcom.com(Jillian Marie Graves) wrote:
> > > that their little rock bands are more enlightened than Gandhi or the
> > > Dalai Lama or something)
> >
> > that's that.
>
> "Enlightened" = "Play" ? 8)
Oooh, that's a good point.
Gandhi just can't write lyrics like James Maynard Keenan, or Zack de la
Rocha, either. (again, Tool and Rage Against the Machine, respectively)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
saul_...@hotmail.com
calh...@aol.com (CALHOUN07) wrote:
> I don't know if Jewel is a Christian or not but she has some awesome looking
> buckawows!
Buckawows... buckawows...
Is that kinda like ... 'Damn, I'd give a buck to see THOSE... Wow!'
=-)
Mad Hatter (Shane)
in saying that you jumped on my case WAY too quickly? Certainly looks like it. I
NEVER did say that NO Catholics are going to heaven, so what was wrong with that
three part list that I repeated for you? Absolutely nothing.
MSJanke wrote:
--
www.mp3-reviews.com
when I heard the song, I thought to myself. My hands are your hands - at
least I want them to be.
So I wrote a song in response this her song called "IWantToBe". One of the
versus starts with,
"I want my hands to be your hands".
Check it out at http://www.mp3.com/madelyniris. A CD is available too!
Mark
David Desroches
> Is that the best response you can muster due to the fact that you KNOW I am right
> in saying that you jumped on my case WAY too quickly? Certainly looks like it. I
> NEVER did say that NO Catholics are going to heaven, so what was wrong with that
> three part list that I repeated for you? Absolutely nothing.
>
> MSJanke wrote:
>
> > >From: "Mad Hatter (Shane)" <wats...@primenet.com>
> > >
> > >I never said at any point in any of my messages that no Catholics were going
> > >to
> > >heaven. What I DID state was:
> > >
> > >1. The pope is a human, nothing more, nothing less.
Absolutely correct. So is Billy Graham, so was Mother Teresa. Yet these people are
considered by many to be very holy and spiritual people.
What you are mistaking for worship, is no more than respect and awe for the holy way
some people are able to lead their lives here on earth.
> > >2. HUMAN saints are not to be worshipped and put on a level with Jesus
Catholics do not "worship" human saints. We do pray to them asking for their
intervention with Jesus Christ on our behalf. This is not the same as the worship
and adoration that we give to God and Jesus Christ, His son. Praying is no more than
holding a conversation with a saint or even Jesus Christ. It is what you say to that
person that distinguishes between worshipping and talking.
When I pray to Mary, I ask her to take my message to her son, Jesus, on my behalf.
Catholics believe that these saints are able to hear our prayers and able to bring
them to Jesus for us. We do not worship Mary, or Peter, or Joseph, or Francis of
Assisi, or any other of the multitude of saints.
> > >3. Christianity and Catholicism are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS
This is very interesting. What would you define as Christianity?
I think that even Martin Luther and other early advocates of Protestant faiths would
be in agreement that Catholics are Christians. Yes, there is disagreement on how we
approach our faith versus a Baptist, or Methodist, or Lutheran, or whatever other
Christian sect you may chose to name (and there are many, many others).
Catholics believe in the same God, the Father, and Jesus Christ, His Son. We believe
that Jesus was born, died for our sins, and rose to beat death that we might have
eternal life with Him in heaven. We believe that it is only through belief in Jesus
that we will be able to defeat our own earthly deaths. It is what we believe Jesus
told us to do in that worship and belief that we differ from other Christian faiths.
If you would like to go into more detail than this in a discussion/debate, I think it
would be more appropriate to take this off-line and bring this newsgroup back on
tract to "Christian" music, and not debates on which faith groups are Christian.
> >
> > *Sigh*
I think Mike answered this way because he felt frustration in your missing his
obvious (to me) points on why Catholics are also Christians.
--
David Desroches (da...@ma.ultranet.com)
Systems Analyst - Thermo Web Systems, Inc.
Voice: 508-791-8171 Fax: 508-757-1507
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est - "where charity and love resides, there God is"
Music2Die4
I am rather new here but this conversation really caught my attention. First
of all I would like to say that I beilieve there are Christians within the
Catholic church just as there are Christians within the Baptist, Methodist,
Presbyterian, Seventh Day Adventist, etc.. And there are non-Christians within
the Catholic church, just as there are non Christians in all of the above
mentioned protestant churches.
Having that said however, there are somethings in which I have to agree with
Mad Hatter.
For example, one person said that Catholics see the pope as just a man. That
is not the Catholic theology however. My family was Catholic (before my
parents married, actually my dad's family was), and I still have an aunt who is
a Mother Superior, so everything I am saying I know what I am talking about.
Did you know that the title of the pope is Vicarius Filius Dei? That means
Venerable Son of God. Vicarius in Latin is another word for Substitue. The
very title of the pope claims that he is a Substitute for the Son of God on
earth. If you do not believe me, check out your history books, and those who
are catholic check out your 1st communion books. Also, the pope is INFALLIBLE.
This is not a man who is simply a man (at least not in his mind). Only God is
INFALLIBLE, yet he takes up this name for himself!
Secondly, some here said that Catholics don't pray to saints, they just ask
them to intercede between them and Jesus. Well, the Bible tells us that Jesus
IS our intercessor. And Jesus himself, while on earth teaching men how to pray
said that we must pray to teh FATHER (our Father, which art in heaven), not to
anyone else! Also, the early Christian church up until the 3rd century DID NOT
pray to saints. This was established when Constantine "converted" to
Catholism. However, since Rome was still a pagan nation, they took the Gods
that that the Roman Pagans prayed to, and changed there names to the names of
the saints. The same was done with the Seventh Day Sabbath (Saturday) which
until the 3rd century was kept by all Christians. Since teh Pagan Romans
worshiped on the Day of the SUN, (Sunday), tehy changed the day of worship from
Saturday to Sunday. Again, check your history books.
And finally, someone mentioned that the only Christians between teh time of teh
church (this of course being the ROMAN Catholic Church, that is the church
AFTER teh influence of Constantine) and the Reformation were the Catholics.
Well, while I believe many Catholics WERE and ARE Christians, during this time
the Catholic Church killed over 60 million Christians(Protestants). The reason
I say Protestants (even though they didn't exist under this name until the
Reformation) is because they WERE AGAINST THE WORSHIP OF IDOLS, against the
position of the POPE as the Vicarius Son of God, and many of them (such as the
Waldenses, and others) were Sabbath keepers (Biblical 7thday Sabbath), and not
Sun-day keepers. Anyone not agreeing with the position of the Pope was killed.
This again can be checked out in history books.
Please I am NOT bashing Catholics. Jesus loves them, ashe loves us. We are
not better. But the institution and theology IS NOT Biblical.
Also, the Roman Catholic Church changed the 10 commandments in there Bible.
They removed the part that says Thou Shalt Not Make Any Graven Imagaes, not of
things on earth, nor in heaven nor in the seas. I guess they had to since they
GRAVEN images of Saints WERE of things on Earth. They also removed teh part in
the command about the Sabbath that says that it is the SEVENTH Day, and left it
only stating that one should observe Sabbaths. And so there would still be 10,
they devided the last verse (about coveting) into 2 verses. This was done by
the pope. So, he is obviously not "just a man" if he thinks that he has the
authority to change what is written in the VERY WORD OF GOD.
saul_...@hotmail.com
music...@aol.com (Music2Die4) wrote:
> Hello all,
> Please I am NOT bashing Catholics. Jesus loves them, ashe loves us. We are
> not better. But the institution and theology IS NOT Biblical.
>
> Also, the Roman Catholic Church changed the 10 commandments in there Bible.
> They removed the part that says Thou Shalt Not Make Any Graven Imagaes, not of
> things on earth, nor in heaven nor in the seas. I guess they had to since
they
> GRAVEN images of Saints WERE of things on Earth. They also removed teh part
in
> the command about the Sabbath that says that it is the SEVENTH Day, and left
it
> only stating that one should observe Sabbaths. And so there would still be
10,
> they devided the last verse (about coveting) into 2 verses. This was done by
> the pope. So, he is obviously not "just a man" if he thinks that he has the
> authority to change what is written in the VERY WORD OF GOD.
Anyone else not like people putting certain words in caps?
Bloody gets on my nerves...
This seems to be a big Christian habit, though...
Saul Sabia
*email down right now
snail
> music...@aol.com (Music2Die4) wrote:
>> authority to change what is written in the VERY WORD OF GOD.
>Anyone else not like people putting certain words in caps?
>Bloody gets on my nerves...
At least it's doing some good then :)
>This seems to be a big Christian habit, though...
I reckon the christians stole it from the commies myself. :)
NP Dakoda Motor Co. - Into the Son