Till There Was You chords
Ramie Tateishi
Here are the chords, as best as I can remember:
F D7 Gm Bm
There were bells on a hill, but I never heard them ringing
F Am G#m Gm C F Gm C
No, I never heard them at all till there was you.
F D7 Gm Bm
There were birds in the sky, but I never soar them winging
F Am G#m Gm C F F7
No, I never soar them at all till there was you.
Bb Bbm F D7
*Then there was music, and wonderful roses they'd tell me
Gm C C7
In sweet, fragrant meadows of dawn and dew
F D7 Gm Bm
There was love all around, but I never heard it singing
F Am G#m Gm C F
No, I never heard it at all till there was you.
(guitar solo)
*repeat
C C7 F C#7 F Fmaj7
Till there was you
Hope this helps.
-Ramie
Michael Weiss
>
> Here are the chords, as best as I can remember:
>
> F D7 Gm Bm
>There were bells on a hill, but I never heard them ringing
My only dispute is that I never noticed the D in the chord that you listed
as a D7. Sounds to me more like an F#dim (same chord sans D). Anyone
else want to put in some input as to that particular chord?
--
\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | /
- Michael Weiss we...@watson.seas.ucla.edu | School of Engineering and -
- izz...@oac.ucla.edu | Applied Science, UCLA -
/ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \
BFA...@auvm.auvm.edu
barry
Chuck Anderson
>
> Here are the chords, as best as I can remember:
>
> F D7 Gm Bm
>There were bells on a hill, but I never heard them ringing
As has been pointed out, this looks good except for the D7 which should be
a diminished chord.
Try playing this a half step lower; in the key of E. Then the diminished chord
becomes an Fdim (played on the 3rd and 4th frets). I find it easier this way.
I've never liked playing in the key of F anyway (almost as bad as Eb).
---> music theory trivia follows <--- ---> non beatle material <---
I seem to recall from the days when I actually tried to learn music theory
that a diminished chord could be named for all notes in it. In other words;
the Fdim chord contains the notes F B D and Ab. Therefore, the Fdim, Bdim,
Ddim, and Abdim chords are all interchangeable. No whuuta mean?
--
*************************************************************************
Chuck Anderson uucp : uunet!isis!cla
Boulder, Co. (303) 494-6278 internet: c...@isis.cs.du.edu
*************************************************************************
Matt Wright
[Stuff deleted]
=> ---> music theory trivia follows <--- ---> non beatle material <---
=>
=>I seem to recall from the days when I actually tried to learn music theory
=>that a diminished chord could be named for all notes in it. In other words;
=>the Fdim chord contains the notes F B D and Ab. Therefore, the Fdim, Bdim,
=>Ddim, and Abdim chords are all interchangeable. No whuuta mean?
=>
=>--
=> *************************************************************************
=> Chuck Anderson uucp : uunet!isis!cla
=> Boulder, Co. (303) 494-6278 internet: c...@isis.cs.du.edu
=> *************************************************************************
You're thinking of a dimished *seventh* chord, which has that extra note.
An F dimished chord (not seventh) is just F, Ab and Cb, with no Ebb. (Cb =
B natural and Ebb = D natural). So there's only one of them. But an F
diminished seventh chord also has the Ebb, so it contains the same notes as
Ab dim7, D dim7 and B dim7. (Although they'd be spelled differently.)
(Neat side note- this implies that there are only three distinct dimished
seventh chords, if you think about it...)
-Matt
Michael Herman
I believe D7 chords should be F#dim. I'm not sure (I'm
trying to "hear" it in my head), but I think so.
saki
>I believe D7 chords should be F#dim. I'm not sure (I'm
>trying to "hear" it in my head), but I think so.
I suppose someone has already thought of this, but has anyone trying
to figure out these chords looked in the sheet music for Meredith
Wilson's "The Music Man"? That's where it came from....
--
"Sorry about the shirts!"
---------------------------------------------------
saki (reachable by email at dmac...@agsm.ucla.edu)
---------------------------------------------------
Bruce Dumes
>In article <1991May20....@digi.lonestar.org> mhe...@digi.lonestar.org (Michael Herman) writes:
>>I believe D7 chords should be F#dim. I'm not sure (I'm
>>trying to "hear" it in my head), but I think so.
>
>I suppose someone has already thought of this, but has anyone trying
>to figure out these chords looked in the sheet music for Meredith
>Wilson's "The Music Man"? That's where it came from....
>
>--
Or, as John put it at the 22 Dec, 1963 Empire Liverpool performance, the
musical "The Muscle Man". :-)
By the way, you can't trust sheet music. Sheet music is transcribed by
people who have absolutely no interest in how it sounds when somebody
tries to play it. In fact, up through the 40's, a lot of sheet music had
introductions that were often not even written by the artist. The sheet
music publishers required them, and if a song didn't come with an intro,
the publishers tacked *something* onto the front.
When it comes down to brass tacks, you've got to trust your own ears to get
it right. The current guesses for TTWY have not been, to my ears, anywhere
near close. I just haven't had time in the last week or so to put my
ear to the grindstone and give the record a listen.
Bruce
--
Bruce Dumes | "You don't see many of *these* nowdays, |
b...@zen.cac.stratus.com | do you?" |
Chuck Anderson
---
> b...@pismo.sw.stratus.com (Bruce Dumes) writes:
>......... The current guesses for TTWY have not been, to my ears, anywhere
>near close. I just haven't had time in the last week or so to put my
>ear to the grindstone and give the record a listen.
Reminds me of the time that I, also before putting my ear to the grindstone,
claimed quite incorrectly that John was responsible for the Taxman count in.
The posted chords are quite close to the way that THE BEATLES play TTWY.
The basic chords are correct (sans some embellishment).
---
> dl...@quads.uchicago.edu (saki) writes:
>I suppose someone has already thought of this, but has anyone trying
>to figure out these chords looked in the sheet music for Meredith
>Wilson's "The Music Man"? That's where it came from....
I got the sheet music (for piano, vocal, and guitar) so I could play it at
weddings. The music helped ..."some." In the end I listened to the Beatles
version and then dropped it a half step.
Are you ready? (note the "user friendly" key):
Ebmaj7 Edim Fm7 Abm7
There were bells on the hill but I never heard them ringing.
Eb Ebmaj7 Dmaj7 Fm7 Bb7 Gm7 Gb7 Fm7 Bb7
No I never heard them at all 'til there was you.
|____3____|
Ebmaj7 Edim Fm7 Abm7
There were birds in the sky, but I never sore them winging.
Eb Ebmaj7 Dmaj7 Fm7 Bb7 Eb6 Abm6
No I never sore them at all, 'til there was you.
|____3____|
[here comes the fun part]
Slower
Ebmaj7 Gm7 Am7-5 Fm7 Emaj7 Ebmaj7 D7-9 Db7 Cm7 Dm7 Ebmaj9 Dm7 Db7 C7
And there was mu-sic and there were won-der-ful ro- ses, they tell me
|___3___|
B7 Bb7 Ab7 Gb7 F7 Bb9 Bb7+5
in sweet fra-grant meadows of dawn and dew.
There you have it. Can anybody actually play all of those chords in the middle
section? (The sheet music has tablature.)
--
*************************************************************************
Chuck Anderson uucp : uunet!isis!cla
Boulder, Co. (303) 494-6278 internet: c...@isis.cs.du.edu
*************************************************************************
Matt Wright
[Stuff deleted]
->weddings. The music helped ..."some." In the end I listened to the Beatles
->version and then dropped it a half step.
->
->Are you ready? (note the "user friendly" key):
[More deleted]
->[here comes the fun part]
->
-> Slower
->Ebmaj7 Gm7 Am7-5 Fm7 Emaj7 Ebmaj7 D7-9 Db7 Cm7 Dm7 Ebmaj9 Dm7 Db7 C7
->And there was mu-sic and there were won-der-ful ro- ses, they tell me
-> |___3___|
->
->B7 Bb7 Ab7 Gb7 F7 Bb9 Bb7+5
->in sweet fra-grant meadows of dawn and dew.
->
->
->There you have it. Can anybody actually play all of those chords in the middle
->section? (The sheet music has tablature.)
Pay no attention to tablature in sheet music for Piano/Vocal and Guitar.
After some guy figures out what all the chords are, *the* tablature symbol
for that chord gets written (probably by the typesetter). You'll notice
that every single piano/vocal/guitar songbook ever written has the exact
same tablature for any particular chord, like Eb major. They pay absolutely
no attention to how the chord is originally voiced on a guitar.
An exception to this is the Hal Leonard "Guitar Recorded Versions" series
which does a really good job at notating exactly what's being played on the
guitar, on which string, etc. It's especially useful for the likes of Jimi
Hendrix/Eric Clapton, etc. *Not* that I want to restart the "the Beatles
couldn't play guitar" thread again! :-)
->
->--
-> *************************************************************************
-> Chuck Anderson uucp : uunet!isis!cla
-> Boulder, Co. (303) 494-6278 internet: c...@isis.cs.du.edu
-> *************************************************************************
-Matt
Bruce Dumes
>> b...@pismo.sw.stratus.com (Bruce Dumes) writes:
>
>>......... The current guesses for TTWY have not been, to my ears, anywhere
>>near close. I just haven't had time in the last week or so to put my
>>ear to the grindstone and give the record a listen.
>
>weddings. The music helped ..."some." In the end I listened to the Beatles
>version and then dropped it a half step.
>
>There were bells on the hill but I never heard them ringing.
>
Actually Chuck, you corrected in your post the chord that jumped out at
me as incorrect without having to sit and play it. In the prior postings,
it was presented like this:
> F D7 Gm Bm
>There were bells on a hill, but I never heard them ringing
Note the "Bm" on ringing. There is no way that this is correct. It was
supposed to be a Bbm. Your version has it as an Abm7 which is correct in
that key. I can't see how anyone could have played a "Bm" here and not
realized immediately that something is most definately wrong. I didn't
really mean to condemn the entire thing.
Michael R. Kesti
>Pay no attention to tablature in sheet music for Piano/Vocal and Guitar.
>After some guy figures out what all the chords are, *the* tablature symbol
>for that chord gets written (probably by the typesetter).
This is tablature for a first position E major chord:
|-------0---
|-T-----0---
|-A-----1---
|-B-----2---
|-------2---
|-------0---
This is a chord diagram for the same chord:
o o o
===========
| | | o | |
-----------
| o o | | |
-----------
| | | | | |
-----------
I think you guys are talking about chord diagrams, not tablature.
--
============================================================================
Michael Kesti Grass Valley Group, Inc. | "And like, one and one don't make
m...@gvgspd.GVG.TEK.COM | two, one and one make one."
!tektronix!gvgpsa!gvgspd!mrk | - The Who, Bargain
saki
You *did* ask, remember....
"Till" is the more archaic form, a word unto itself, meaning the same
thing as "until" but derived from Middle English which borrowed it
from Old Norse. "Until", on the other hand, originated in Middle English
as a combination of the particle "un" with the preexisting "till".
The word spelled 'til is a contraction of until.
Obligatory Beatles reference: it wasn't that the Boys were fans of
"The Music Man" that caused them to include "Till There Was You"
in their repertoire. Paul was a fan of Peggy Lee's recording of
this song, and (sentimental old fluff that he was/is) decided to
incorporate it into their act.
In the early days of American Beatlemania, it was common for
girls to swoon most energetically over the quaint intrusive "r"
that Paul lets slip at the end of "saw-r". But I myself have
always loved George's gentle acoustic solo (even though I know
he must have practiced hundreds of times before he got it right)
and Ringo's understated bongo percussion.
Thomas Bowers
|>
|> > I suppose someone has already thought of this, but has
|> > anyone trying to figure out these chords looked in the
|> > sheet music for Meredith Wilson's "The Music Man"? That's
|> > where it came from....
Interesting... Did one of the Fabs ever claim to have learned
the song by reading some sheet music?
There's an old Peggy Lee album called LATIN A LA LEE (it's
pretty easy to find, at least I had no trouble). She
sings a version of "Till There Was You" that's amazingly
close to the Beatles' version (a LOT closer than the
version by Anita Bryant that charted)...
Matt Wright
[Deleted]
->I think you guys are talking about chord diagrams, not tablature.
->
->--
->============================================================================
->Michael Kesti Grass Valley Group, Inc. | "And like, one and one don't make
-> m...@gvgspd.GVG.TEK.COM | two, one and one make one."
-> !tektronix!gvgpsa!gvgspd!mrk | - The Who, Bargain
Indeed; I was being loose. You never see tablature on "easy arrangements";
it's always chord diagrams just thrown in at the last minute. But the Hal
Lenoard transcriptions I mentioned are really tablature, as you describe.
(A line for each string of the guitar, and letters to indicate where to put
your fingers, along with regular musical notation for the guitar part so you
can see what the notes and rhythms are.)
-Matt
saki
>|> > dl...@quads.uchicago.edu (saki) writes:
>|>
>|> > I suppose someone has already thought of this, but has
>|> > anyone trying to figure out these chords looked in the
>|> > sheet music for Meredith Wilson's "The Music Man"? That's
>|> > where it came from....
>
>Interesting... Did one of the Fabs ever claim to have learned
>the song by reading some sheet music?
Now Tom...really. Is that what I said? :-) I did not say the Fabs
learned the song from sheet music. I said the song came from "The
Music Man." If someone's trying to figure out the chords, the
logical place to look is *not* "With the Beatles." :-) Of
course, as has been pointed out, commercial sheet music may
not be exact; a copy of the professional score, as sold in
theatrical and musical bookstores, may be the better answer.
>
>There's an old Peggy Lee album called LATIN A LA LEE (it's
>pretty easy to find, at least I had no trouble). She
>sings a version of "Till There Was You" that's amazingly
>close to the Beatles' version (a LOT closer than the
>version by Anita Bryant that charted)...
Yes, so I said already. Paul had this indefatigable interest
in mainstream ballads, and "Till...." was not the only one
(viz., "Red Sails in the Sunset", "Besame Mucho", "The
Honeymoon Song/Bound By Love"). I'm not sure if he thought
that the Beatles would one day be Mainstream and they'd better
get cracking, or whether he thought it suited their style. It's
worth remembering that the Boys did "Till..." in their first
set on their first Ed Sullivan show---a conservative audience
if ever there was one.
It still strikes me as astonishing that the Beatles were such
prolific songwriters without having the ability to write down
their creative output in musical notation. The various lyric
sheets still in existence---some can be seen at the British
Museum, donated by Hunter Davies, some in the library at the
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor---show no trace of such
notation. I don't think the Boys were as ignorant of notes
as they claimed to be; clearly they had a limited vocabulary
at least for referring to guitar chords. But it's still
remarkable that, while they'd forget the lyrics now and
again, studio sessions suggest that they *thought* more
naturally in music than in words. Perhaps some of the
composers out there would like to comment? Was this more
the result of the Boys' innate talent, or the skills they
developed early on, as Quarrymen, covering songs that they
heard on record?
Michael Weiss
>I don't think the Boys were as ignorant of notes
>as they claimed to be; clearly they had a limited vocabulary
>at least for referring to guitar chords. But it's still
>remarkable that, while they'd forget the lyrics now and
>again, studio sessions suggest that they *thought* more
>naturally in music than in words. Perhaps some of the
>composers out there would like to comment? Was this more
>the result of the Boys' innate talent, or the skills they
>developed early on, as Quarrymen, covering songs that they
>heard on record?
Well, you've asked, remember. Anyway, I can only speak for myself. When
I write, I haven't the foggiest notion what the notes are that I'm hearing
in my head. In fact, I usually simply stop whatever I'm doing when I get
an idea, grab a piece of paper, and try to write down what I'm hearing.
It helps that I have perfect pitch, so I can usually identify what notes
I'm hearing, but here comes the funny part. While I can write on the usual
5-line staff, I don't when I need to get it down quickly. Rather, I have
developed my own "shorthand", which allows me to write it down quickly, and
fill in the particulars about the note (duration, for example) later.
Is it talent, or skills that are developed? It's both. The initial idea
is talent. You can't call it anything but, when it comes out of nowhere.
The development, and layering, comes from developed skills. You learn what
will give you a particular sound, and then apply it. Note, by the way,
that Paul had that particular talent, while John did not. John had no idea
what would give him the sound he wanted.
Harold Somers
Working only from memory now, but.....
1. yes, the D7 should be F#dim, but for beginners the difference is
insignificant.
2. I think I play Bb rather than Bm at the end of the first line
("ringiing", "winging", "singing").
3. There's some changes missing in the bridge, before "fragrant" and on
"meadows". I cant quite remember what they are is, but I think they
involve Bb or something. Maybe it's the standard Gm - Bb+ - Gm7 ???
4. The D7 on "tell me" should be D9
5. On the final line, I usually play C - B - C - C7
6. Second verse - it's "saw", not "soar", isnt it?
Michael Weiss
>>>There were birds in the sky, but I never soar them winging
Yes, but Macca pronounced it like "soar". Something about the Liverpudlian
dialect...
Paul Maclauchlan
> It still strikes me as astonishing that the Beatles were such
> prolific songwriters without having the ability to write down
> their creative output in musical notation.
> Was this more
> the result of the Boys' innate talent, or the skills they
> developed early on, as Quarrymen, covering songs that they
> heard on record?
In one of the press conferences during the FITD tour, Paul spoke about
how he and John approached song writing in the early days. He says
they would work out the tune and if it was too difficult to remember
they would disgard it. The magazine American Songwriter (Summer 1990)
contains this statement as well as more discussion about how they
wrote songs. I recommend it.
That would explain the lack of musical notation on the lyric sheets.
The fact that they rarely changed the arrangement of a song once it
was "set" supports this statement.
--
.../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
pa...@moore.com -or- {...!uunet,...!telly}!moore!paul
"...take a sad song and make it better."/JL&PMcC'68
Harold Somers
>In article <1991May24....@cns.umist.ac.uk> h...@cns.umist.ac.uk (Harold Somers) writes:
>>>>There were birds in the sky, but I never soar them winging
>> 6. Second verse - it's "saw", not "soar", isnt it?
>
>Yes, but Macca pronounced it like "soar". Something about the Liverpudlian
>dialect...
Sorry - I should have picked up on this quicker, me being a linguist and all
that. In most British dialects of English, "soar" and "saw" are pronounced
identically, viz. Like American "soar" without the "r". The only places in
the British Isles where they'd be pronounced differently (I think) are where there are 'rhotic' accents, ie accents which (like American) pronounce
preconsonantal and word-final Rs - eg Scottish, Irish, some Lancashire, and
most rural southern accents.
Someone mentioned "intrusive R" the other day, but this would not occur here
as the next word doesnt begin with a vowel.
saki
>Sorry - I should have picked up on this quicker, me being a linguist and all
>that. In most British dialects of English, "soar" and "saw" are pronounced
>identically, viz. Like American "soar" without the "r". The only places in
>the British Isles where they'd be pronounced differently (I think) are where there are 'rhotic' accents, ie accents which (like American) pronounce
>preconsonantal and word-final Rs - eg Scottish, Irish, some Lancashire, and
>most rural southern accents.
But in "Till There Was You" (there, Bob Clements---satisfied? :-) ,
Paul doesn't pronounce "saw" like "soar" without the final "R". The
final "R" is definitely there---and that makes sense if, as you say,
the Lancashire accent (of which Liverpudlian is a part) treats it
homophonically as "soar" *with* the final "R". If saw/soar is a
similar pair, then they'd both be affected by the appearance of a
phantom final "R" or a preconsonantal "R"---Paul seems to be treating
"saw" as part of a word-pair with the second word exhibiting an
initial consonant, "saw-r them". In interviews, I've also heard him
use the intrusive R, such as "saw-r it." But I've also heard Paul
and the other Fabs (less so George) use the word "saw" without a
final "R" sound. What would that indicate? Pretentions to a more
posh accent, even semi-unconsciously? Or is there a rule that governs
the inclusion of the "R" sound in rhotic accents?
There happens to be a heavy Irish influence in Liverpudlian
accents, isn't there? I'm thinking especially of inflection,
particularly in question-sentences. Interesting that, in the
film "A Hard Day's Night", Paul's "grandfather" (played by
Wilfred Brambell) sports an Irish accent (and political outlook!)
while Paul is more Scouse.
--
It'll be the usual rubbish but it won't cost much.