Shafties & Wheelies
Frank Leake
*why* a shaftie *cant* wheelie. I would have thought it was simple a
question of torque. Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
--
"Now calm down, Barbara...We haven't looked every where yet, and an
elephant can't hide forever."
TXRider
Frank Leake wrote in message <362F536D...@sced.esoc.esa.de>...
>Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
I'm not one to call names but.... SHAFTIES CANNOT WHEELIE PERIOD.
Winderrs95
tell ya.....
sa...@yahoo.com
It is. My 85 Honda Sabre V65 (1099cc) will wheelie - no problem. She's got a
shaft and 126 horses... :)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Chris Stumpf
bikes may be more difficult to wheelie than others, but not impossible. An
example that I can think of is a CB750F versus a CB750S, the first is chain
drive and the second is shaft. Both have the same engine, just a different
drive train. A chain uses less power to transfer power to the rear wheel
than a shaft, so there is more power available for burnouts and wheelies. I
had an 83 V65 Magna (1100cc) that would power wheelie any time I wanted just
by rolling the throttle and it was shaft drive. Actually that bike had a
reputation as being a wheelie monster. The whole myth about shaft drive
bikes not being able to wheelie is like the story about about how a scientist
proved that a bumble bee could not fly because it didn't have enough "wing
area" for its weight. We all have seen bumble bees fly!
On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:46:53 +0100, Frank Leake wrote:
:>For the really pig ignorant ones among us will some explain exactly
:>*why* a shaftie *cant* wheelie. I would have thought it was simple a
:>question of torque. Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
:>
:>--
:>"Now calm down, Barbara...We haven't looked every where yet, and an
:>elephant can't hide forever."
Chris Stumpf
'97 VFR 750
'83 V65 Magna (for sale)
cst...@monmouth.com
Tim J. Clevenger
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main1.html
Regards,
Tim Clevenger
98 PC800
TXRider wrote:
>
> Frank Leake wrote in message <362F536D...@sced.esoc.esa.de>...
> >Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
>
Cully
Frank Leake wrote:
> For the really pig ignorant ones among us will some explain exactly
> *why* a shaftie *cant* wheelie. I would have thought it was simple a
> question of torque. Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
>
> --
> "Now calm down, Barbara...We haven't looked every where yet, and an
> elephant can't hide forever."
Frank, they are going to tell you all kinds of lies, but a shaftie
cannot wheelie. Don't believe a word of it or the photographic evidence,
either.
Winderrs95
but a shaftie
cannot wheelie. Don't believe a word of it or the photographic evidence,
either.
>>>
you sure your name isnt Scully? LOL
MBarham105
>*why* a shaftie *cant* wheelie. I would have thought it was simple a
>question of torque. Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
No, you are not being stupid. In fact, you are quite correct. Wheelies
fundamentally boil down to torque, traction and momentum.
The weight of a bike can be thought of as concentrated at one point, the
'center of gravity'. This is the point on which the bike could theoretically be
balanced, without beginning to tip one way or the other. This point exists
somewhere about midway betweent the front and rear wheels, very roughly
speaking.
Now, imagine if you will (read this in Rod Serling's voice) that the bike was
frozen in a wheelstand position; i.e. balanced on the rear wheel, with the
front wheel off the road. Obviously, the bike's natural inclination is drop
the front wheel down hard, unless something in holding it up there. That
something, is torgue. Torque being applied to the rear wheel. But just how
much torque is holding the bike off the ground you ask? Well, measure the
distance along the ground from the centerline of the rear wheel axle, to the
center of gravity of the bike. Take this measurement in feet, say 2.5 ft. for
example, and multiply it by the weight of the bike in pounds, say, 590 lbs.
The result is the amount of torque in Foot*Pounds, abbreviated as ft*lbs,
that is holding the front wheel off the ground. 1,475 ft*lbs in this example.
Can this example bike apply that much torque? Well, if the engine can develop
say, 70 ft*lbs of torque at the crankshaft (that's peak torque, @ maybe 7,000
rpm) and then this torque is mulitiplied by a ratio of 2.9 (1st gear reduction)
and a ratio of 2.4 (chain sprocket 'secondary' reduction), the torque delivered
to the rear wheel, ignoring friction and other losses, is 70 x 2.9 x 2.4 . This
multiplies out to about 490 ft*lbs of torque. But in our estimate (see above)
of torque required to hold the bike in 'wheelie' stance, we needed 1,475 ft*lbs
of torque. Well, this typical big displacement machine example confirms what
we already know; When we're screaming down main street in first gear at 7,000
rpm, we probably aren't doing a wheelie. And most of the time, we're probably
happy about that, since taking a corner is so much easier with both wheels on
the road.
Now here's where things get much trickier. You say you've 'heard' that
riders do wheelies, so, what's going on? Well, the fact is, that when all the
(not really so light weight) parts inside the engine are spinning around at
frantic speeds, the cranckshaft, connecting rods, pistions, camshafts, clutch,
etc have stored up a tremendous amount of kinetic energy. So when a rider
'dumps the clutch', the decleleration of the engine transfers energy that had
accumulated in the revving engine parts as torque that is applied to the rear
wheel, IN ADDITION to the torgue delivered as a product of internal combustion
in the engine. On top of this, if the rider stores energy in the fork springs
by compressing them, this energy is returned as the springs rebound and
accelerate the whole bike in the direction necessary to do a wheelie, actually
reducing the torque needed at the rear wheel to get the front wheel off the
ground (only very temporarily).
There is one other possibility though. If the combination of the rear tire and
the road surface can not support the torgue being applied to the rear wheel, a
smoking rear tire results, instead of a rapid acceleration or a wheelie.
So to make a long story even longer, no matter HOW the torque is delivered to
the rear wheel, whether by chain, shaft, or direct drive turbine, if the torque
applied exceeds the torgue created by the bike's weight, AND as long as the
tire doesn't start smoking, a wheelie is bound to wake somebody up.
Oh, one other thing. Remember how the torque required to keep the front wheel
hovering off the ground is calculated by multiplying the bike's weight by the
DISTANCE ALONG THE GROUND from the rear axle to the center of gravity?
Well, what happens if the front wheel keeps raising further off the ground?
That distance ALONG THE GROUND gets smaller and smaller and smaller, right? so
the weight of the bike multiplied by a smaller and smaller distance is a
smaller and smaller torque required to keep the front wheel off the ground.
Eventually, about the time the front wheel is directly over the front axle, and
assuming the rider is still holding on, and can see only blue sky, NO torgue is
required any more to maintain a wheelie, beacause the distance along the ground
is now zero. A loop has sucessfully been performed. The cool thing is, just
before going over the top, if the rider hits the rear brake, a torque is
applied to the rear wheel in the OPPOSITE direction as the torque the engine
applies when it's being given some throttle.(letting go of the throttle does
this too, although less dramatically) This means the bike's front wheel can
actually be ACCELERATED back toward the spot it lifted off from in the first
place. In other words, quick reflexes are worth something in this unenviable
situation.
Next Time : Using gyroscopic forces to navigate during
exasperating wheelie postures.
Dave Green
Chris Stumpf wrote:
>
> drive and the second is shaft. Both have the same engine, just a different
> drive train. A chain uses less power to transfer power to the rear wheel
> than a shaft, so there is more power available for burnouts and wheelies. I
Also there is a thing to be said about the back end of chain vs shaft bikes.
With a chain, the back end ALWAYS sinks under acceleration. With shaft drive
the back end has a tendency to stay up as the shaft "climbs" the rear bevel
gear. So maybe on certain bikes that are kind of on the edge of being powerful
enough to wheelie, a chain driven version may be able to, where a shaftie may
lose just enough in the bevels and not have enough balls left to overcome
the climbing back end. <shrug>
-Dave
Cully
Winderrs95 wrote:
Positive, dammit. I tellya, they won't wheelie...the truth is out there....
-Cully, who's actually blond - and a guy....although he does think Gillian
Anderson is pretty hot in a domineering-chick-with-a-gun-kind-of-way.
Cully
<gigantor-snip>
you could have summed all that up just by saying that shafties couldn't wheelie.
Jack
>If I recall correctly, the ST1100 is a shaft drive, so...
>
>http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main1.html
>
A blatant forgery. The picture was obviously made with the bike at
rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
--
Road Dog
Just *do* it.
Jack
> My 85 Honda Sabre V65 (1099cc) will wheelie - no problem. She's got a
>shaft and 126 horses
^^^^^^^^^^
Bullshift. Do you have dyno figures to back that up? Careful how you
answer, I do have the figures.
Tim J. Clevenger
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main3.html
If this were true, why would Motorcycle Online come out and forge
something like that?
Regards,
Tim Clevenger
98 PC800 ("Sweet 16")
Jack
>http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main3.html
Same thing, the front tire isn't even turning.
>If this were true, why would Motorcycle Online come out and forge
>something like that?
It's a conspiracy, I tell you...
TXRider
Tim J. Clevenger wrote in message <362FB687...@clevenger.org>...
>something like that?
>
They're getting a kickback from bike manufacturers. Like the media has
NEVER published false information before. Yeah right... And Mr. Clinton is
100% truthful.
Brian McLaughlin
>
> This is one of those "old wives tales" that goes around.
Windy, have you been telling those stories again?
--
Brian McLaughlin AP #1
TZ250E (1993-95) (retired?) 2 strokes smoke,
R1100RTA (1997) 4 strokes choke!
EX250 Ninja (1998)
Bruce Bowman
of limited.
BUT I rode my old '73 CB750 with some Goldwing buddies to the
Wing-Ding in Arizona back in 1978 (or was it 79?) I remember watching a
fellow with a SUPERCHARGED GL1000 pull wheelstands in the parking lot of
the hotel...
Heck, maybe that hot Arizona sun was making me hallucinate. What are
they called? "Mirage"?
But I will admit that my 900 lb '85 GL1200 SLE wont pull a wheelie.
Bruce
Michael & Michele Fadling
you'll see it, it keeps going, and going, and going...
***** wrote in message ...
>I have owned a V65 Magna that was shaft driven and I can attest to the fact
>that you CAN wheelie a shaft driven bike.
>
>Peter.
>1986 Kawaski ZX1000R Ninja.
>
Richard J. McGurk
Jack <Roa...@usit.net> wrote in article
<3634af61....@news.usit.net>...
> "Tim J. Clevenger" <t...@clevenger.org> said:
>
> >If I recall correctly, the ST1100 is a shaft drive, so...
> >
> >http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main1.html
> >
>
> A blatant forgery. The picture was obviously made with the bike at
> rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
>
The rear wheel isn't turniing either! How were they able to balance the
bike to snap the picture?
>
> --
> Road Dog
> Just *do* it.
>
McGurk
DoD#762
etz...@banet.net
love to borrow someones ST1100 so that I can try!
> A blatant forgery. The picture was obviously made with the bike at
> rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
Just cause the front wheel doesnt "look" like it's turning doenst mean
it isnt. Photography can have that effect ya know. .Flipping through
some moto magazines, I find plent of pix where someone is obviously
moving (dragging a knee for example) and there is an apparent stoppage
of the wheels (the 3 spokes or a cast wheel are clearly visible).
Naturally, the faster the rider, the more blurring in the picture.
Since this guy on the ST had probably just lifted the wheel, he probably
wasnt going too fast yet. I figure the camera's hi-speed shutter could
easily freeze the tire tread on a relatively slow moving bike.
One guy's opinion on one of the most ridiculous threads imaginable.
*****
that you CAN wheelie a shaft driven bike.
Peter.
1986 Kawaski ZX1000R Ninja.
Frank Leake wrote in message <362F536D...@sced.esoc.esa.de>...
>For the really pig ignorant ones among us will some explain exactly
>*why* a shaftie *cant* wheelie. I would have thought it was simple a
>question of torque. Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
>
Evilchile
>rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
Of course the front wheel is not turning! Barring the use of certain drugs,
stills (photographs) do not move; those are called movies. Let us recap (for
those of you so pathetic you see fit to use a sneaker ad campain as a sigature
file): photo=still; movie=moves.
For the slightly more intelligent, I am sure you are aware that the film used
was high speed with a fast shutter speed - the reason there is minmal blur on
the bike, namely the front wheel.
Back to wheelies, some shafties can't, and on a similar note, some chain drives
can't. It may or may not be that shaft drives are not as suited for wheelies
as chain drives, but that is not the issue (I don't have enough personal
expirience with a vast assortment of bikes to come to a conclusion). The
statement is that shafties (every single one) can not wheelie, and that my
friend, is FALSE.
Seth M LaForge
Bruce Bowman <Med...@webtv.net> wrote:
> But I will admit that my 900 lb '85 GL1200 SLE wont pull a wheelie.
Sure it will. Just get a trials rider to wheelie on your trailer (you
DO have a trailer, right?) and start riding...
Seth
Seth M LaForge
>The statement is that shafties (every single one) can not wheelie,
>and that my friend, is FALSE.
This is a load of utter bull crap! Every single shafty (and multi
shafties too, for that matter) can not wheelie. I have not wheelied
a shafty many times.
Say, how do you spell the gerundive of wheelie?
Seth
Michael Timberwoof Roeder
dgr...@removethis-sstech.on.ca wrote:
Since the shaft's pinion bearing and the wheel's ring-gear bearing are
held in the same casing, there's no way for the pinion to "climb up" the
ring gear ... unless you mean that the whole bike is going to turn
upwards along with the pinion gear. My GS did that a few weeks ago. Sure
felt like a wheelie to me.
--
Michael Timberwoof Roeder; mroeder at best dot com; http://www.best.com/~mroeder
Ice Hockey QA Engineer (Goalie), 1998 BMW R1100GS rider,
and not your ordinary noncomformist.
Spam Reading Offer: http://www.best.com/~mroeder/spamoff.html
cin...@imaxx.net
< I am just a Pharmacist and my understanding of torque and power is sort
< of limited.
Pharmacist (UK: chemist), you say?
< BUT I rode my old '73 CB750 with some Goldwing buddies to the
< Wing-Ding in Arizona back in 1978 (or was it 79?) I remember watching a
< fellow with a SUPERCHARGED GL1000 pull wheelstands in the parking lot of
< the hotel...
< Heck, maybe that hot Arizona sun was making me hallucinate. What are
< they called? "Mirage"?
Or dipping into your stock, more likely.
< But I will admit that my 900 lb '85 GL1200 SLE wont pull a wheelie.
Get a trailer hitch for the wing, and trailer your wheelie. The wing
should be able to pull it just fine.
--
Cindi Knox http://www.suba.com/~cindik/ cindik@my isp
Windy
McLaughlin <tzr...@execpc.com> wrote:
>Chris Stumpf wrote:
>>
>> This is one of those "old wives tales" that goes around.
>
>Windy, have you been telling those stories again?
If I had, half of this NG would have been locked
up by now. ;o)
--
~*~*~*~* " W I N D Y" *~*~*~*~
To Love Life You Have To Live It!
NGG #13 - The Iron(ic) Maiden[tm]
Zephyr1100 (Mr Al), Z550 (Kevin)
http://www.windfalls.u-net.com
http://www.ziplink.net/~holm/ngg/ngg.html
Lauren
> This is a load of utter bull crap! Every single shafty (and multi
> shafties too, for that matter) can not wheelie. I have not wheelied
> a shafty many times.
>
> Say, how do you spell the gerundive of wheelie?
>
Seth,
Keep reeling them in - this is very entertaining ;-)
FWIW,
LCB
'91 BMW R100GS - Geist der Freiheit
'94 Suzuki DR350ES
Lauren
>
> Since the shaft's pinion bearing and the wheel's ring-gear bearing are
> held in the same casing, there's no way for the pinion to "climb up" the
> ring gear ... unless you mean that the whole bike is going to turn
> upwards along with the pinion gear. My GS did that a few weeks ago. Sure
> felt like a wheelie to me.
>
It can and it will unless something restrains it. Your bike doesn't do
it because the BMW Paralever restrains it - but believe me, bikes (and
cars) without this kind of restraint will cause the pinion gear to
"climb" the ring gear if you accelerate hard enough. Bikes because they
have a higher torque per weight ratio will be more apparent.
I can't believe you guys are able to sucker people into this argument
every time - is this some kind of newbie initiation or something?
Frank Leake
> I can't believe you guys are able to sucker people into this argument
> every time - is this some kind of newbie initiation or something?
Honest, it was an innocent question. I didn't know half the bloody NG
was going to apeshit over it. Can I take it you *can* wheelie a shaft
drive - replies by E-mail this time.
Dan Nitschke
>
> And Mr. Clinton is
> 100% truthful.
Of course he is... by his definition of truthful.
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke |@| peDA...@best.com |@| nits...@redbrick.com
-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>-=>
Just another loser, like a cat in the rain; just another day
in the path of a speeding train. - Rush, "You Bet Your Life"
Dan Nitschke
>
> Check out http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/hell.html
>
> The first picture on the page is definately
Too bad it's indefinite.
> a shaft driven bike
> pulling a wheelie - Honda ST1100.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Pictures,
especially those on the web, prove *zip*. Photo-
shop can create terrific fakes.
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke -/~_ peDA...@best.com _~\- nits...@redbrick.com
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Through the passing strange I fell, to the wide-eyed opposite.
My agenda was hidden well; now I don't know where I left it.
- Steve Taylor, "Escher's World"
Erik Astrup
>One guy's opinion on one of the most ridiculous threads imaginable.
You don't know the half of it!
--
-------------------------------------------------
Erik Astrup
1995 Triumph Tiger - 1993 TDM850
Keeper of Tigger's Triumph Tiger Page
http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/tiger/
-------------------------------------------------
Chris Calvert
<t...@clevenger.org> wrote:
>And this one too?
>
>http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main3.html
>
>If this were true, why would Motorcycle Online come out and forge
>something like that?
Spectacular stories and pictures sell, even when (almost) everybody
knows they are untrue.
Chris.
--
Chris Calvert - ccal...@dod.no - http://home.sol.no/~ccalvert
Naf MC Oslo #702 - DoD #1935. Trashed '87 Honda VF1000FII
Chris Calvert
Bowman) wrote:
>I am just a Pharmacist and my understanding of torque and power is sort
>of limited.
> BUT I rode my old '73 CB750 with some Goldwing buddies to the
>Wing-Ding in Arizona back in 1978 (or was it 79?) I remember watching a
>fellow with a SUPERCHARGED GL1000 pull wheelstands in the parking lot of
>the hotel...
> Heck, maybe that hot Arizona sun was making me hallucinate. What are
>they called? "Mirage"?
He *could* of course have put on a Spagthorpe Gyro adapter. this is a
device with a small but heavy weight shaft that rotates at high speed
in the opposite direction of your normal shaft. This motion somewhat
neutralizes the Gyro force from youre shaft and can enable you to do
wheelies with a shaftie. I say "somewhat" and "can enable" as they are
are rather sensitive to engine rpm and shaft rotation speed - you have
to practice a *lot* to be able to do proper wheelies without beeing
thrown off the bike.
The adapter was developed by Lord Julian Spagthorpe. I don't think
that they ever made a model for any of the GoldWing's, but if he could
supercharge a GL1000 he may have been able to modify one made for a
different model bike.
Lord Julian also created several bikes. You can read about one of the
more famous ones at http://www.ariel.com.au/bikes/spagthorpe.html
> But I will admit that my 900 lb '85 GL1200 SLE wont pull a wheelie.
Exactly...
JT
Bruce Bowman wrote in message
<1312-36...@newsd-221.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
I am just a Pharmacist and my understanding of torque and power is sort
of limited.
Thats cause wheelies are for motorcycles, and GL's have had nothing to do
with motorcycling since 1980.
JTM
JT
Frank Leake wrote in message <3630AD87...@sced.esoc.esa.de>...
>Lauren wrote:
>
>> I can't believe you guys are able to sucker people into this argument
>> every time - is this some kind of newbie initiation or something?
>
>Honest, it was an innocent question. I didn't know half the bloody NG
>was going to apeshit over it. Can I take it you *can* wheelie a shaft
>drive - replies by E-mail this time.
>--
JT
Seth M LaForge wrote in message ...
>On 23 Oct 1998 04:29:11 GMT, Evilchile <evil...@aol.com> wrote:
>>The statement is that shafties (every single one) can not wheelie,
>>and that my friend, is FALSE.
>
>shafties too, for that matter) can not wheelie. I have not wheelied
>a shafty many times.
>
>Say, how do you spell the gerundive of wheelie?
>
>Seth
Its not because shafties can't wheelie but because you can't ride Seth.
JTM
andy the pugh
> I am just a Pharmacist and my understanding of torque and power is sort
> of limited.
> BUT I rode my old '73 CB750 with some Goldwing buddies to the
> Wing-Ding in Arizona back in 1978 (or was it 79?) I remember watching a
> fellow with a SUPERCHARGED GL1000 pull wheelstands in the parking lot of
> the hotel...
Well, a contra-rotating supercharger placed carefully could negate the
effect of the shaft. You would have to get the crank:supercharger
gearing ratio spot on though (which is why it would never work with a
turbo)
--
ap
Chris Stumpf
an impressive sight. The rider did it to put a stupid sqid on a GSXR 600 to
shame!
On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:49:20 -0600, JT wrote:
:>
:>Bruce Bowman wrote in message
:><1312-36...@newsd-221.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
:>I am just a Pharmacist and my understanding of torque and power is sort
:>of limited.
:> But I will admit that my 900 lb '85 GL1200 SLE wont pull a wheelie.
:> Bruce
:>
:>Thats cause wheelies are for motorcycles, and GL's have had nothing to do
:>with motorcycling since 1980.
:>
:>JTM
:>
:>
:>
Chris Stumpf
'97 VFR 750
'83 V65 Magna (for sale)
cst...@monmouth.com
Dan Gambel
wheel of the Gold Wing off the ground for distances of up to 50-60
feet. I will admit that it is not a vertical as the sport bike, but it
is much scarier.
IBTW The wing is a shaft drive; and, the wife does not like it when she
is aboard and it happens.
Dan GL1500
Chris Stumpf wrote:
>
> This is one of those "old wives tales" that goes around. Some shaft drive
> bikes may be more difficult to wheelie than others, but not impossible. An
> example that I can think of is a CB750F versus a CB750S, the first is chain
> drive and the second is shaft. Both have the same engine, just a different
> drive train. A chain uses less power to transfer power to the rear wheel
> than a shaft, so there is more power available for burnouts and wheelies. I
> had an 83 V65 Magna (1100cc) that would power wheelie any time I wanted just
> by rolling the throttle and it was shaft drive. Actually that bike had a
> reputation as being a wheelie monster. The whole myth about shaft drive
> bikes not being able to wheelie is like the story about about how a scientist
> proved that a bumble bee could not fly because it didn't have enough "wing
> area" for its weight. We all have seen bumble bees fly!
>
> On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:46:53 +0100, Frank Leake wrote:
>
> :>For the really pig ignorant ones among us will some explain exactly
> :>*why* a shaftie *cant* wheelie. I would have thought it was simple a
> :>question of torque. Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
> :>
> :>--
> :>"Now calm down, Barbara...We haven't looked every where yet, and an
> :>elephant can't hide forever."
>
Evilchile
>>and that my friend, is FALSE.
>
>This is a load of utter bull crap! Every single shafty (and multi
>shafties too, for that matter) can not wheelie. I have not wheelied
>a shafty many times.
>
>Say, how do you spell the gerundive of wheelie?
>
>Seth
>
>
>
>
>
>
Seth,
You worry me. Not because you have a different opinion than me, but because
you are blind to the truth. You are ignorant of the facts; every one is at
some point. I hope you can evolve from being an utter squid.
Good luck.
-e
Glenn Springer
>
> Jack <Roa...@usit.net> wrote
> > "Tim J. Clevenger" <t...@clevenger.org> said:
> >
> > >If I recall correctly, the ST1100 is a shaft drive, so...
> > >
> > >http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/98sporttour/main1.html
> >
> > rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
> >
> bike to snap the picture?
>
Photoshop 4.0 is a marvellous program. I've even seen a picture in
which a shaftie seems to be countersteering!
--
Glenn Springer
DOD #2076 * YOW #159 * SDWL #3 * 81 CB750C
-----
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aSiaN frEk
other graphics app that can run on a HOME pc or mac, i might have a few jobs
for you that can pay pretty hefty sums. fact is, you can't forge something
like that image of a wheelie. it just can't happen, the pixel edges are too
fine... plenty of reasons that can pointed out my a forensic analyst. the
truth comes out? hehe...
JeffYNee wrote in message <19981026001650...@ng22.aol.com>...
>>>A blatant forgery. The picture was obviously made with the bike at
>>>rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
>
>>The rear wheel isn't turniing either! How were they able to balance the
>>bike to snap the picture?
>
>>Photoshop 4.0 is a marvellous program. I've even seen a picture in
>>which a shaftie seems to be countersteering!
>
>sorry, i'm a photoshop professional and i can almost 100% guarantee that
the
>photo in question is not a forgery. the reflection and
displacement/distortion
>of the background through the windshield of the bike would be incredibly
>difficult to create. even if you could, it would take so long as to wonder
why
>anyone would bother. plus the gammas and shadows are completely perfect. if
>this is a forgery, then it was done by the best photoshop person i've ever
>worked with (even on dedicated retouching systems)
>
>jeff
>‘83 honda magna v45
JeffYNee
Michael Timberwoof Roeder
countersteer aren't interested in scientific rebuttal. They will say
anything to confuse the issue. Never mind supposedly Photoshopped
pictures; I've seen two shaft-drive motorcycles wheelie and I've
countersteered a bunch of them.
I might even challenge these trolls to go out to their BMW dealers and
test-ride some shafties, but here's what will happen. Perhaps they will
not even go. If they do go, perhaps they don't know how to countersteer or
wheelie a bike in the first place, and won't recognize when they're doing
it on a shaftie. Or they know how, they do it on a shaftie, and then lie
about it some more.
See, the point isn't even whether shafties can wheelie or countersteer.
The point is to see how off-topic they can get the conversation to go by
bringing up the subject.
In article <7113ta$6oj$1...@la-mail4.digilink.net>, "aSiaN frEk"
<asia...@geocities.com> wrote:
> i second the thought. if someone has that kind of skill in photoshop or any
> other graphics app that can run on a HOME pc or mac, i might have a few jobs
> for you that can pay pretty hefty sums. fact is, you can't forge something
> like that image of a wheelie. it just can't happen, the pixel edges are too
> fine... plenty of reasons that can pointed out my a forensic analyst. the
> truth comes out? hehe...
>
> JeffYNee wrote in message <19981026001650...@ng22.aol.com>...
--
Andy Woodward
|With a chain, the back end ALWAYS sinks under acceleration. With shaft drive
|the back end has a tendency to stay up as the shaft "climbs" the rear bevel
|gear. So maybe on certain bikes that are kind of on the edge of being powerful
|enough to wheelie, a chain driven version may be able to, where a shaftie may
|lose just enough in the bevels and not have enough balls left to overcome
|the climbing back end. <shrug>
Very powerful shafties like the V-Max cant wheelie because both wheels come
off the ground and they lose traction.
Chris Stumpf
On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:23:04 UNDEFINED, Andy Woodward wrote:
:>
:>Very powerful shafties like the V-Max cant wheelie because both wheels come
:>off the ground and they lose traction.
:>
:>
Andy C.
Dan Gambel wrote:
> As an additional item. While not intentional, I have had the front
> wheel of the Gold Wing off the ground for distances of up to 50-60
> feet.
A unintentional 50-60 foot wheelie - yeah right.
--
Andy C. "as always, the contents above come with a smiley !"
http://www.york.microvitec.co.uk/~asc
e-mail: use the reply field
Dave Green
Michael Timberwoof Roeder wrote:
> See, the point isn't even whether shafties can wheelie or countersteer.
> The point is to see how off-topic they can get the conversation to go by
> bringing up the subject.
Yep. Last time I checked, the only thing that chain bikes can do that
shafties can't, is use a chain. ;-P
-Dave
Glenn Springer
>
> The "truth" is that the trolls who say that shafties can't wheelie or
> countersteer aren't interested in scientific rebuttal. They will say
> anything to confuse the issue. Never mind supposedly Photoshopped
> pictures; I've seen two shaft-drive motorcycles wheelie and I've
> countersteered a bunch of them.
>
> I might even challenge these trolls to go out to their BMW dealers and
> test-ride some shafties, but here's what will happen. Perhaps they will
> not even go. If they do go, perhaps they don't know how to countersteer or
> wheelie a bike in the first place, and won't recognize when they're doing
> it on a shaftie. Or they know how, they do it on a shaftie, and then lie
> about it some more.
>
> The point is to see how off-topic they can get the conversation to go by
> bringing up the subject.
>
> <asia...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> > i second the thought. if someone has that kind of skill in photoshop or any
> > other graphics app that can run on a HOME pc or mac, i might have a few jobs
> > for you that can pay pretty hefty sums. fact is, you can't forge something
> > like that image of a wheelie. it just can't happen, the pixel edges are too
> > fine... plenty of reasons that can pointed out my a forensic analyst. the
> > truth comes out? hehe...
> >
> > JeffYNee wrote in message <19981026001650...@ng22.aol.com>...
> > >>>A blatant forgery. The picture was obviously made with the bike at
> > >>>rest. The front wheel isn't even turning.
> > >
> > >>The rear wheel isn't turniing either! How were they able to balance the
> > >>bike to snap the picture?
> > >
> > >>Photoshop 4.0 is a marvellous program. I've even seen a picture in
> > >>which a shaftie seems to be countersteering!
> > >
> > >sorry, i'm a photoshop professional and i can almost 100% guarantee that
> > >the photo in question is not a forgery. the reflection and
> > >displacement/distortion of the background through the windshield of the
> > >bike would be incredibly difficult to create. even if you could, it would
> > >take so long as to wonder why anyone would bother. plus the gammas and
> > >shadows are completely perfect. if this is a forgery, then it was done by
> > >the best photoshop person i've ever worked with (even on dedicated
> > >retouching systems)
> > >
WhadiddIwin? Huh? Huh? I obviously won the tournament. How about a
Ford Explorer with a Bass Tracker on a trailer? That's the going top
prize for a fishing tournament around here. Course I would only sell
it and buy a bike. That's almost enough to buy a Harley ('course I
would still need the trailer) but then again, I'd still need the truck
to tow the trailer when I have to pick up the bike every time it
breaks down...
Evilchile
>off the ground and they lose traction.
so these machines can't wheelie, they can only fly???
Stephen Pratel
wheelies are possible on shaft driven bikes.
Andy C. wrote in message <36358AB0...@madge.com>...
TXRider
damned world to see! Now everyone with a shaftie will be doing wheelies.
PRICK! ;-)
Stephen Pratel wrote in message <7192d9$ggu$1...@news01.li.net>...
Michael Timberwoof Roeder
Sideways V-4 engine with clutch at the front like on Saab cars,
transmission shafts underneath, and dual counterrotating driveshafts to
the rear wheel, one on each side, with the entire thing balanced to
neutralize totating mass. Then make the V-4 strong enough to lift up all
that weight... It'll wheelie. ;_)
Nik Synytskyy
>Very powerful shafties like the V-Max cant wheelie because both wheels come
>off the ground and they lose traction.
*both* wheels come off the ground? Come on now, it is a bike, after all,
and not an airplane!
dolt
I've gotten both wheels off the ground many times. Of course, it's not
good for the bike: all that grinding on the pavement and crashing into
trees, ditches, etc. And it hasn't been all that good for me either!
sam mayberry
>
> >Very powerful shafties like the V-Max cant wheelie because both wheels come
> >off the ground and they lose traction.
>
> *both* wheels come off the ground? Come on now, it is a bike, after all,
> and not an airplane!
off the ground. this was in their story of the, then new, max. mine
wheelies but i can't get the back wheel to come off the ground, at least
not for long. sam
Chris Stumpf
snapping the throttle open and closed, you could get the bike to jump
vertically taking both tires off the ground. This is a behavior peculiar to
shaftdrive motorcycles. It has to do with the jacking action of the shaft.
On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:33:49 -0500, sam mayberry wrote:
Chris Stumpf
Stephen Pratel
P.S> such maneuvers require replacement of muffler bearings, so be sure to
have a few handy.
sam mayberry wrote in message <363BC8...@sgi.net>...
Stephen Shoihet
>
>Frank Leake wrote in message <362F536D...@sced.esoc.esa.de>...
>>Is this naive, am I being stupid, HELP !
>
>
>
>I'm not one to call names but.... SHAFTIES CANNOT WHEELIE PERIOD.
If cars can wheelie so can shaft drive bikes.
-Steve
Kelowna, B.C., Canada
riverman
>
> >Very powerful shafties like the V-Max cant wheelie because both wheels come
> >off the ground and they lose traction.
>
> *both* wheels come off the ground? Come on now, it is a bike, after all,
> and not an airplane!
Well, DUH. If it were an airplane, he would have said 'all 9 wheels
come off the ground'.
--
=========================================================
myron buck (riverman): DoD #9250
O O_
/\ ACGWB #2 1995 VN750 _____</_____
( )>( ) BWOB #4 1970 Bluehole 17A \___ /_____/
""""""""""""""""""""""""""~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~
Paul Campanale
6 years ago. They did a comparo on a V-Max and a Ducati Monster, If your
eyes are anywhere near as good as mine, both the Duck and Max's front tires
were airborne! Its there is clear color. I own a Max and the problem with
getting the front wheel off is its length and unfortunately the 578lbs of
bike under your ass.
sam mayberry
usuallu will spin and it surprised me. on the right surface it wheelies.
there is a serious problem with the v-max ( and cbx) that if you wheelie
too high, too long, the oil sloshes toward the rear and causes
starvation in the oil pump pickup. sam
Paul Campanale
Dave Green
I've done wheelies, but what's a shaftie, and how do I perform one?
(couldn't resist...)
-Dave
John Moran
dgr...@removethis-sstech.on.ca wrote:
> I've done wheelies, but what's a shaftie, and how do I perform one?
>
> (couldn't resist...)
>
> -Dave
A "wheelie" is getting your front wheel up in the air.
A "shaftie" is getting your front............
well, you get the idea. :D
regards
jm
'72 R75/5 Toaster
--
John Moran / Digital Services Recording Studios
my real email is : digisrvs@riter<dot>computize<dot>com
48 Trk SSL Studio / 24 bit Sonic Solutions Mastering / Remote Truck / SoundStage in Houston, TX
"Loose with the truth now baby, it's your fire,
Baby, I hope you don't get burned."
Althea - The Grateful Dead
Andy Woodward
You need to get a girlfreind.