BJJ McDojo - it finally happened...?
kirks...@operamail.com
Kirk Lawson
"kirks...@operamail.com" wrote:
>
> I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
>
> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
Based on recommendations and the remarkably low price, I bought the BJJ Masters
Text. In the intro he complains about the McDojoing of grappling.
Funny, I predicted this some time ago but the grapplers, Gi, etc., told me it
could never happen 'cause grappling "tests" itself againts each other. :P
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge
of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial artists
gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
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Mark Goldberg
>Based on recommendations and the remarkably low price, I bought the BJJ Masters
>Text. In the intro he complains about the McDojoing of grappling.
>
>Funny, I predicted this some time ago but the grapplers, Gi, etc., told me it
>could never happen 'cause grappling "tests" itself againts each other. :P
>
>
>
Well... sure there would be people who would claim to take it from 10
yrs to 4.
That's wishful thinking, I'd imagine.
The body has to take it's bloody good time learning, getting hurt,
healing, learning learning
and you can't do this without the time to make it all happen.
A real black belt in bjj means something.
No doubt there will be less than real black belts- they just won't get
near the real ones, but they may get the prices down
which would be nice for people who want to learn bjj.
mark
Robert Low
Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote:
>Funny, I predicted this some time ago but the grapplers, Gi, etc., told me it
>could never happen 'cause grappling "tests" itself againts each other. :P
I remember arguing the same thing. With the same response.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Eddie
quick. I dont think it hurt taht he was a competitve judoka , sambo guy for
years. As for an average joe like me being able to do it? I think not.
<kirks...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:1750de8c.03070...@posting.google.com...
'Vejita' S. Cousin
kirks...@operamail.com <kirks...@operamail.com> wrote:
>I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
>
>http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
I've trained at and with Lloyd Irvin and I serious doubt this is a
legit post from his group. First the url is wrong, and there's no contact
info; just an email sign up and hype. I'm forwarding this to Lloyd and
I'll let the group know what he has to say about it.
DMT2012
"'Vejita' S. Cousin" <sco...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bdvntb$kga$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
Its been bought up at MMA.tv , and it does seem that its him.
Dmt
Tomas Drgon
> I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
>
> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
He's trying to make a quick buck, yes. But far from BJJ McDojo.
This is him: http://www.lloydirvin.com
Having said that, the flyer is ridiculous.
Tomas
'Vejita' S. Cousin
>> In article <1750de8c.03070...@posting.google.com>,
>> kirks...@operamail.com <kirks...@operamail.com> wrote:
>> >I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
>> >
>> >http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
>>
>> I've trained at and with Lloyd Irvin and I serious doubt this is a
>> legit post from his group. First the url is wrong, and there's no contact
>> info; just an email sign up and hype. I'm forwarding this to Lloyd and
>> I'll let the group know what he has to say about it.
>
>Its been bought up at MMA.tv , and it does seem that its him.
Ouch, my bad then.
GreenDistantStar
>
> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
The first good brown belt that comes along will clean your dial. Really good
purples are going to bitch-slap you.
A real Bjj bb will laugh at you.
On the mat, where it counts, you'd know you're not a bb. So would everyone
you roll with.
You'd not even be kidding yourself.
He says he's the only guy to have a judo bb, bjj bb and high sambo ranking?
Bullshit. I can think of several right off the top of my head - Roy Harris,
John Donehue, Royler. Gokor by default.
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Don Geddis
> I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
Obviously there's a lot of marketing hype in the ad. But Lloyd Irvin is
a real BJJ black belt, as is his instructor Leo Dalla.
It's not yet a McDojo system until you find some new black belt, granted under
the system, who sucks as a grappler.
If they take money from suckers, but don't promote them to high belts ranks,
then it's a shame...but not a McDojo issue.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Don Geddis webm...@bjj.org http://bjj.org/
BillMahoney68
> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
>
>Based on recommendations and the remarkably low price, I bought the BJJ
>Masters
>Text. In the intro he complains about the McDojoing of grappling.
>
>Funny, I predicted this some time ago but the grapplers, Gi, etc., told me it
>could never happen 'cause grappling "tests" itself againts each other. :P
You are oversimplifying.
Grappling frauds are exposed.Though they can pop up now and again.
BillMahoney68
>
>He says he's the only guy to have a judo bb, bjj bb and high sambo ranking?
>
>Bullshit. I can think of several right off the top of my head - Roy Harris,
>John Donehue, Royler. Gokor by default.
I never heard Harris was a JUDO BLACK.
I dont think he ever competed in sambo.He just studied leglocks with baturin.
Royler never did sambo.
Gokor has no rank in BJJ.
BillMahoney68
>
>"kirks...@operamail.com" wrote:
>>
>> I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
>>
>> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
>
>Based on recommendations and the remarkably low price, I bought the BJJ
>Masters
>Text. In the intro he complains about the McDojoing of grappling.
>
>Funny, I predicted this some time ago but the grapplers, Gi, etc., told me it
>could never happen 'cause grappling "tests" itself againts each other. :P
First off this isnt a "mcdojo" because it isnt a dojo.
It is some guy selling training tips.
So?
Lloyd Irvin is no joke.
I rolled with a guy that was his training partnet for years.This guy was tight,
and he said Lloyd was better.
He did indeed get his BJJ BB very fast as he was a Judo and american sombo
blackbelt going in.And he had his own school, so access to mats, time to train
and partners.And Irvin is very strong.
Also Rhadhi Ferguson is quoted.He's a national Judo champ, and olympic
alternate.Both are very well thought of grapplers that have done alot in
competition.
Im still waiting on the mcdojo...
GreenDistantStar
"BillMahoney68" <billma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030702231733...@mb-m22.aol.com...
> I never heard Harris was a JUDO BLACK.
IIRC. Does he not state on his 101 Tape that he has a judo bb? I stand to be
corrected of course..
> I dont think he ever competed in sambo.He just studied leglocks with
baturin.
There being no black belt......
> Royler never did sambo.
Has some exposure to it.
> Gokor has no rank in BJJ.
Quite true, but would you say that he'd probably get it if he wanted it?
BillMahoney68
>
>> I never heard Harris was a JUDO BLACK.
>
>IIRC. Does he not state on his 101 Tape that he has a judo bb? I stand to be
>corrected of course..
I never actually really sat down and watched it.
>
>> I dont think he ever competed in sambo.He just studied leglocks with
>baturin.
>
>There being no black belt......
There is in SOMBO.And the site sez "sombo" not sambo.
>
>> Royler never did sambo.
>
>Has some exposure to it.
Sure.So do I.Im not a sambo blackbelt, or master of sport.
>
>> Gokor has no rank in BJJ.
>
>Quite true, but would you say that he'd probably get it if he wanted it?
In time.Not right away.
Grappler240
>
>Quite true, but would you say that he'd probably get it if he wanted it?
>
>
only by doing like the rest of us.
green berets can't cross-certify as SEALS....Golor can't just "get" a bjj black
belt....
doesn't work that way.
However, two of my coaches have worked extensively with him and say that he is
extrememly good on the mats and with submisions. All the leg locks I know come
from Gokor through my coaches.
G240
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke
Kirk Lawson
Robert Low wrote:
>
> Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote:
> >Funny, I predicted this some time ago but the grapplers, Gi, etc., told me it
> >could never happen 'cause grappling "tests" itself againts each other. :P
>
> I remember arguing the same thing. With the same response.
Yup. I recall you doing so too.
GreenDistantStar
>
> >> I never heard Harris was a JUDO BLACK.
> >
> >IIRC. Does he not state on his 101 Tape that he has a judo bb? I stand to
be
> >corrected of course..
>
> I never actually really sat down and watched it.
I just got sent a copy of 101... seeing Roy for the first time is
interesting. I'm sure that what he says.
> >> I dont think he ever competed in sambo.He just studied leglocks with
> >baturin.
> >
> >There being no black belt......
>
> There is in SOMBO.
There is? Well knock me down and call me shorty.
>And the site sez "sombo" not sambo.
That's a dance, isn't it?
> >> Royler never did sambo.
> >
> >Has some exposure to it.
>
> Sure.So do I.Im not a sambo blackbelt, or master of sport.
You're right.
But funny how sambo/sombo guys have never really made a mark
in mma. Taktarov? Yeah maybe. I wonder why?
> >> Gokor has no rank in BJJ.
> >
> >Quite true, but would you say that he'd probably get it if he wanted it?
>
> In time.Not right away.
Like the time it takes to post it?
Kirk Lawson
GreenDistantStar wrote:
>
> <kirks...@operamail.com> wrote in message
> news:1750de8c.03070...@posting.google.com...
> > I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
> >
> > http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
>
> The first good brown belt that comes along will clean your dial. Really good
> purples are going to bitch-slap you.
>
> A real Bjj bb will laugh at you.
>
> On the mat, where it counts, you'd know you're not a bb. So would everyone
> you roll with.
That's irrelevant. Let's project that grappling continues it's popularity trend
and HUNDREDS of these grappling McDojos spring up who give out black belts to
people who learn to properly give a warm hug. Suddenly you've got THOUSANDS
upon THOUSANDS of "Grappling Black Belts" wandering around out there. The
public eventually comes to believe that these grappling black belts don't have
any more skills then a teenage girl and there are so few "real" black belts that
they become mythic beings which the rest of the martial arts community doesn't
believe really exists. Prop up the system by instituting extremely limited rule
sets for competition.
Get the picture?
> You'd not even be kidding yourself.
Sure you could.
kirks...@operamail.com
> First off this isnt a "mcdojo" because it isnt a >dojo.
True. But is sure seems likea bad omen. BJJ black in 3.5yrs? Yeah, if
you train 6 day a week maybe.
Of coure, you all put me in my place about Lloyd Irvin et al. I had
now idea who he was. Ferguson rang a bell tho, but I assumed that was
another Bas Rutten / krav maga deal.
Tell me it don't read like a Furey ad.
> Im still waiting on the mcdojo...
I got a TKD teaching BJJ. But no URL.
(I suppose you'll have to take that on the same basis as big foot and
yellow bamboo. GreenDistant seems to know him)
Kirk Lawson
BillMahoney68 wrote:
> Im still waiting on the mcdojo...
Go ask Gene Simco. He's complaining about them.
Badger South
Grappler240 <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote:
>>> Gokor has no rank in BJJ.
>>
>>Quite true, but would you say that he'd probably get it if he wanted it?
>>
>>
>
>only by doing like the rest of us.
>
>green berets can't cross-certify as SEALS....Golor can't just "get" a bjj black
>belt....
>
>doesn't work that way.
>
>However, two of my coaches have worked extensively with him and say that he is
>extrememly good on the mats and with submisions. All the leg locks I know come
>from Gokor through my coaches.
>
>G240
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -Gichoke
Besides, doesn't he still have to learn the katas?
<g,d&r>
-B
Lt. Tyrone Slothrop
(He is not giving out black belts)
The following two messages from Lloyd are not private correspondence,
but taken from a public Internet forum today:
http://www.jiujitsugear.com/forum/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=17591;view=all
http://www.jiujitsugear.com/forum/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=17655;view=all
(IF THE ABOVE LINKS ARE BROKEN FOR YOU, be sure to paste both parts
into your URL address of your Internet browser - each link address
starts with "http://" and ends with ";view=all")
=====================================================================
L Irvin
Re:BJJ Blackbelt in 3 and 1/2 years....
« Reply #35 on: Today at 12:32:25am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: Today at 11:54:01am by L Irvin »
Ok I came over because I was told that I have been quoted saying that
I got my BB in 7 years and I said this on the intheguard forum.
Well first of all I need Joe's address so I can pay him a visit for
calling me a bold faced liar.
Just kidding.
Yeah the math doesn't add up with the time frames you have. You are
correct I think about me being a purple belt in 1998. I got my brown
belt in 1999 and my black in 2000. I've been a black belt for about 3
years now.
I'm not sure about the specifics but I've only been doing BJJ for
about 7 years now. So I know for a fact that I never told anyone that
I was a 7-year BB.
Sooner I don't want to hurt my rep. People have been asking me to do
instructional videos for years now but I just wasn't interested.
Plus I don't like doing what everyone else is doing. I've always
liked to make a big splash. That's why I went for a flying triangle
at the Pro-Am and knocked myself out. My first competition after
sitting out an entire year with a neck injury.
When it comes out, the people who get it are going to be very happy.
But what they do with the information is up to them.
For example. There is an investment/savings formula that uses the
power of compounded interest. If you start saving X amount of dollars
at age 20 for 40 years you will be a millionaire by age 60. It's not
a lot of money either. But with the stats at 95% of Americans retire
broke. Not too many people are following the system.
Why? Because it takes discipline, dedication and a steadfast
adherence to basic/simple system.
It means maybe never having a really nice car even though you have a
good enough to get a nice car.
It means maybe only taking a vacation once every five years. And a
bunch of other stuff most people don't have the discipline to do.
I'm going to put out a complete system and it is up to each individual
to decide what they're going to do with it.
It isn't a blue pill.
For those that know me. I will die for BJJ it's my love, but I know
for a fact that it doesn't take a person with a sound plan 10 years to
get to black belt level. Now if their instructor promotes them or not
that's a different situation.
If I had been at certain schools no matter how good I was, I may have
been held back. I remember when I was a blue belt, David Camarillo
and I fought in Virginia together. He was Bad A. back then, then we
were both fighting in Brazil as brown belts, then he sat at brown for
a while. He was kicking ass in Brazil at brown then sat another 2-3
years at brown. That's his instructor's choice. I don't have an
opinion on it. Each instructor is different.
Your only goal should be to get as good as you can get.
By the way anyone that is offended by Direct Response advertising.
The people on the grappling forums that are offended by it, mostly
associate it with Matt Furey. The fact is that this type of
advertising has been around way longer than Matt Furey has been alive.
The people that get turned off by it and chose not to get it fine with
me. I've had some near death and life changing experiences that made
me decide to put this course out.
My position is either your interested or your not.
People are getting into the headline too much. The product is going
to sell itself. Then once people start using the course, at the
6-12-18 month mark people that are following the program will start to
talk about their results. That's when it will really take off.
Real quick about Rhadi. Although he is gifted, that will only take
you so far. Rhadi is the most dedicated and disciplined person I have
ever met. Everything he has accomplished has been from hard
consistent work. I mean I've seen him for the last 5 years stick with
training like you wouldn't believe. At the same time completing a
Master Degree and he working on his PH.D. I could write an entire
book on him that would be inspirational to everyone. He's amazing.
But just like normal people blow it off and talk about how athletic he
is etc. They did the same to me as I was coming up, but no one saw me
drilling my moves like I do. I used to be a drilling fool.
Let me give you a tip that will help those that have the discipline.
This is no easy task but it will benefit those who completely
understand what I'm trying to say.
OK Imagine if someone pushed you down a flight of stairs. The first
thing that happens is your reflexes will take over and try to break
your fall.
Or imagine you're outside during the winter and you slip on a piece of
ice. What happens? Your reflexes take over. Or some people will
simply freeze up and just hit the ground.
What would you do? I assume if you were doing some form of grappling
you would break fall, roll or something. That's if you've been
practicing it. My Grappling schools do break falls before each
practice.
The untrained persons reflex is to reach out with their hand and post.
This usually results in a broken arm, elbow or shoulder depending on
how they land.
In Judo posting is an absolute NO NO.
What's my point? Simply this.
If you were to drill a particular move, transition or training
sequence to the point where it became a reflex what do you think would
happen when you were put into that situation?
You would react accordingly.
One problem is that most people don't practice enough to make the
moves a reflex; I mean it just happens naturally. So what happens is
that over a period of years and years and more years. A person has
been tapped out so much or has been beaten so much from a particular
situation that it finally becomes a reflex because your just tired of
it happening and you now after years have the ability do the move.
If you had the discipline to make yourself trains positions to the
point that it is a reflex you would be much better off. But to
practice a move continuously until it is a reflex is some BORING
stuff. There are special ways to practice that can increase your
body's ability to change mechanical movement from a thought to a
reflex. Once it becomes a reflex it has to be practiced for it to
remain a reflex. I have many moves especially my leg locks that are
no longer a reflex for me. I would have to train on them to make it a
reflex again. I could still catch the average person in them but on
the elite level if things aren't a reflex it's really hard to pull
them off. Plus when your conditioning fails your reflexes fail but
that's a different subject.
So anyway think of how many positions you have that are pure reflex.
If all of them are, then the only thing you have to do is keep them
fresh and maintain your conditioning.
If you're like me these days and see a move, then think to yourself
that you should've done a particular move. You better practice. On
my journey to BB I was completely obsessed, even caused problems in my
relationships but I had one goal and nothing was going to get in my
way. Become a BJJ Black Belt.
Over the last six or so years I've been training myself for all
practical purposes. I was running a school as a blue belt with no
instructor to guide me. All I had was my plan and if my plan wasn't
good then I wouldn't be where I am today.
Now I'll be sharing my system with those interested. Those that are
not interested no need inquire. I'm only concerned with those that
are.
I don't promise that you'll get your BB in 3 ½ years. I promise that
you'll have the system that allowed me to do it. The people that have
a problem with the ad. That's to bad. This program WILL change a lot
of peoples grappling for the better. There will be plenty of people
that will look at the bigger picture. I hope I've answered some of
your questions. I'm getting married this Saturday and I'll be away on
my honeymoon for a week or so.
Oh Yeah. Rock that was a funny story. Joe I'm coming for you.
Sorry this is so long and if it doesn't make complete since it's
because I lost my train of thought a few times because the phone was
ringing. Thanks For Your Time.
One more thing DanielD has a good system. From his list I did 3,4,6,8
and 10.
Number 9 is a NO WAY. I had 4 surgeries during my run for BB 3 knee
and one elbow. It was a total bummer.
Lloyd Irvin
=====================================================================
L Irvin
Re:An Open question for Lloyd Irvin
« Reply #1 on: Today at 01:11:03pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely understand. My answer is going to rattle some feathers
but it's ok.
Let me start off by saying that lack of full time training partners is
just a roadblock that can be overcome. I had it and over came it.
I'll tell you my biggest roadblock, it was not having an instructor
teaching me every day. But it ended up ok, as I'll explain shortly.
Yes curriculum is a problem. I've never seen Mike Jens products but I
hear that they are really good. From what I've read about him he
definitely knows what he's talking about.
In my system I've taken an approach that is completely different than
anything that is in our market. It will be light years better than
the way I did it because of experience.
Let me say this you hit it on the head about how classes are run. You
come in warm up, stretch, show 3-4 moves, people practice it 3-4
times, maybe do some drills then spar. This is not going to get you
anywhere quickly. But this is how people want it. I even teach my
classes like this. The problem is that if an instructor taught the
classes in a format that would really benefit the students the best in
the long run. The students would be bored to death. They would quit
and join another school. I know this for a fact. I used to run my
classes back in the early days like the blueprint. Students stopped
coming to class, showed up later to get in the sparring etc.
You see everybody wants to learn the next new move, every one wants to
do the move they just saw Shaolin do on a video tape, everyone wants
to learn the flying this and the flying that. Now let me be the first
to say that all of that stuff is cool but at some point in their
training 2-4 years in. They will hit a dead end, they will look at
their training an tell themselves wow I've been doing this for 3 years
and I don't feel like I'm improving any more, or "I'm having problems
doing this or that"
Let me tell you about a funny dynamic that happens in BJJ. Once a
student gets to a good blue belt lever or purple belt level, they
think that they know what they need to be working on and tend not to
listen to the person that they're paying to guide their path. So they
end up years down the road stumped. Now realizing their coach was
telling them certain things for a reason they had no clue about.
You see a good blue belt or purple belt that is giving a hard time to
black belts and brown belts start to get a air of confidence, when
this happens they often believe that they have the knowledge of a BB
when in fact they don't know SH*T about the art.
I know this from my own personal experience. When I was a blue belt I
could tap brown belts some time, when I was a purple belt I gave
everyone hell. I fought and trained with big name BB when I was a
purple belt and gave them hell. Back in the day at a seminar I was a
purple belt and I sparred a really big name BB and we fought for like
15-20 to a draw. It was on video and people were talking about it on
the intheguardforum. Well at that time in 1998 you couldn't convince
me I wasn't at the Black Belt level. But knowing what I know now I
didn't know anything. I was good, I was training all of the time back
then but I didn't really know. But at the time all I could think
about is how he's been a black belt longer that I've been doing BJJ
and he couldn't tap me. How many times have you heard that? It's a
dynamic that has people really confused. There may be a blue belt
that could give me a hard time; I have one at my school named Mfowler.
But it doesn't mean anything in the BIG PITCURE. I'm sorry I left
the topic, I'm very passionate about certain things and people are
damaging their own progress with these myths they have in their head.
For some reason it's very difficult to do the hard but necessary thing
and easier to do the easy and unimportant things.
Have you ever heard of the 80/20 rule?
80% of your results will come from 20% of your efforts.
The problem is the 20% that you need to do is the tedious, time
consuming, boring, difficult things.
The other 80% is the easy things. Ie. Sparring, trying to learn any
random move you see on a tape, practicing a new move a few times. You
feel like your doing a lot but your not. And this 80% will contribute
to only 20%. It is much more detail than this but I hope you
understand.
Everyone don't get mad at me here.
The problem is people come to class train and go home, maybe watch
videos, roll with their friends outside of class etc. They are
basically in a cycle that is proven for long-term results. If you
train in BJJ for 5-7-10 years no matter what belt you are you will be
good because you've been doing it for a while. If you practice one
arm bar 15 times a day, 7 days a week for 10 years, you practiced that
one arm bar 54,750 times, if you practiced the same arm bal twice a
week 200 times each day all year for 4 years you would've practiced it
83,200 times. This is a small example but hopefully it makes sense
to you. How many people do you know that practice one move 15 times a
day, 7days a week? Well if they did you see where they would be in 10
years, that sucks. Practicing a move 200 times a day twice a week is
VERY EASY if you understand what will happen in the long run. It may
be boring for some but I'll tell you what I hated worse than anything
in the world when I was working towards my BJJ BB. LOSING I hated it,
I hated it so much I didn't have any option besides doing the things
that it took to put me in the best position for that not to happen.
That was one of my burning reasons WHY. I had others but that's one
of them. Everyone has to have his or her own
Now my goals have change and I don't train anywhere as hard or as
often as I used to. As a matter of fact I haven't rolled in the last
7-8 days just to make sure I don't get injured before my wedding.
I'll share one reason I was able to do what I did.
In my early blue belt days my instructor Leo Dalla had to move back to
Brazil. I was basically forced to come up with a system for me to
follow or I would probably still be a blue or purple belt. For those
that know me I am a very disciplined person when it comes to setting
goals, making sound plans, reviewing, renewing those plans and
following through with them. At least for the things I'm really
interested in. When Dalla left I really felt like my life was over, I
thought about moving to another state to train under someone but I had
to many ties and things going on in Maryland. So I was either going
to die a blue belt or suck it up and develop a system and go with it.
Now sometimes people can be following a bad system/plan but lucky for
me mine worked. Now having gained more experience I'm making it even
better than the one I followed. You see I was a lonely ole blue belt
when I put my plan together, I always renewed the plan as I went along
but now I'm going to make the plan I followed look like basic
addition.
Yes the plan is one of the keys, how to do it, what to do and the
reasons why you must stick to the plan. Most time people do whatever
they want with no plan and do very well. Imagine what a person could
do with a sound plan and they had the discipline to follow it. The
truth is that most people won't have the discipline to follow it.
Even my own students I try to put on the correct path but you know how
it is once a person gets to a good blue belt or purple belt level they
think they know what they need to work on for themselves. And just
like a kid if you try to force them they will rebel. I've only had 2
people follow the system to any degree worthwhile, Rhadi and Mfowler.
They both are doing great. It's hard work, but I know there are a lot
of people that will have their own burning desire and use this system
to it's fullest.
As far as the time period in the ad. Like I said before people are
getting into to it too much. But it's fine. I have my own goals with
the program. I've been contacted my some really big names and there
are going to be some really big things happening with this. I didn't
know there that many people out there that were interested in
improving their game.
I don't have any control over how long it will take for a person to
get promoted but I do know for a fact that there are people out there
that if they apply the system, stay focused and have an instructor
that wouldn't hold their ranking back it could be done. Will everyone
be able to do it? NO Will everyone be able to benefit from it? YES
You wouldn't believe the names of some of the people through out the
country and the UK that have contacted me wanting to get involved with
this system.
All I can say is that when the system comes out, a person will have a
100% sound plan of action, no guesswork. Either they'll follow it or
they won't. It will not interfere with their training; they can still
go to class and do everything they have been doing.
"In business the first 40 hours a week you work is for survival,
everything after that is for success."
The same applies for BJJ. Think of your BJJ training when you come to
class as the 40-hour workweek. It's for survival.
What you do outside of that is for success. Peace
Lloyd Irvin
PS. I know I got off tract but I may not be able to get back on the
computer before my wedding.
Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote in message news:<3F0426A7...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX>...
'Vejita' S. Cousin
GreenDistantStar <GreenDis...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
><kirks...@operamail.com> wrote in message
>news:1750de8c.03070...@posting.google.com...
>> I got this ad in my inbox. Thought you all might get a kick out of it.
>>
>> http://www.thegrapplingblueprint.com/PPC.htm
>
>The first good brown belt that comes along will clean your dial. Really good
>purples are going to bitch-slap you.
>
>A real Bjj bb will laugh at you.
>
>On the mat, where it counts, you'd know you're not a bb. So would everyone
>you roll with.
Llyod is the real deal thou, and he did earn his BB in about 3.5yrs.
Then again so did BJ Penn (who can also kick ass). It has been done
before and will be done again. But both BJ and Llyod trained full time
(ie. no real day job) often 2x/day 6days/wk.
The comparison at mma.tv was made between someone that scores 1600 on
the SAT and then sets up a tutoring service to help others. The info he
shows you is legit, but that doesn't mean you can repeat what he did.
However, the nature of the ad is very much 'in question' IMHO, as it
seems to imply you can be 'just like Lloyd' if you follow the system, and
that's clearly false. Further, while I believe in paying my instructors
for their time and passing along their experience, if he's main concern
was just 'getting the info/system out to the public' why charge for it?
Given that this is actually being pushed by Lloyd I'm sure that all the
info is legit and the training methods are legit. But I doubt the
'average 2-3x/wk student' will be able to repeat what Lloyd did and get
their BJJ BB in <4yrs. Again think of PJ Penn.
Grappler240
your momma.
g240
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Vejita' S. Cousin
Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote:
>> A real Bjj bb will laugh at you.
>>
>> On the mat, where it counts, you'd know you're not a bb. So would everyone
>> you roll with.
>
>That's irrelevant. Let's project that grappling continues it's popularity trend
>and HUNDREDS of these grappling McDojos spring up who give out black belts to
>people who learn to properly give a warm hug. Suddenly you've got THOUSANDS
>upon THOUSANDS of "Grappling Black Belts" wandering around out there. The
>public eventually comes to believe that these grappling black belts don't have
>any more skills then a teenage girl and there are so few "real" black belts that
>they become mythic beings which the rest of the martial arts community doesn't
>believe really exists. Prop up the system by instituting extremely limited rule
>sets for competition.
>
>Get the picture?
Hmm, you mean just like judo or boxing. Or HS wrestling. I open a
school, claim I can box. And the fact that my students always lose, well
that's life.
BJJ, boxing, MT, wrestling, savate, etc. are a little different than
most other MA. The focus is on randori, sparring, and tournaments.
Anyone can open a McDojo in any of these arts (in fact several have been
opened in the past and most likely will be again in the future). However,
their students all suck. And when they face 'non McDojo schools' they
lose.
If you look back at judo, in the 1950's it was far more popular than
BJJ is now. Several judo 'McDojos' opened. All of them sucked at shiai
vs. the real deal. Same with boxing.
Now if your saying that the way around this is they simply change the
rules, or water down the rules. Fair enough, that's what people claim
happened to karate/TKD in the US. Again thou I point towards judo (which
is a fair comparison). Why didn't this happen in judo?
Well it sort of did. But shiai levels the palying field. If you have
a boxing school that never competes, or when it rarely does alwyas loses,
the school will not stay open long. Yes, for people that just what to
'box-erise' these plays are a god send (and they are fairly common too,
check the local suburbs). But boxing is still a hard art.
As BJJ spreads there are going to be schools that focus more on the
art, or more on fitness, or more on self defense, or more on tournaments,
or more on MMA, etc. etc. But ALL of them need to be able to defend
themselves from other schools. Like judo that's the base standard.
Could BJJ turn into a huge McDojo art like TKD? Sure anything could
happen, it might rain toads tomorrow. But it's not likely to happen given
the nature of the art.
kirks...@operamail.com
Lt. Tyrone Slothrop
> But both BJ and Llyod trained full time
> (ie. no real day job) often 2x/day 6days/wk.
Lloyd claims not to done classes 6x per week; however he says he did
drill techniques, studied tapes, worked on his cardio, and mentally
visualized techniques. (see:
http://www.jiujitsugear.com/forum/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=17591;view=all)
BillMahoney68
>
>But funny how sambo/sombo guys have never really made a mark
>in mma.
Fedor?
BillMahoney68
>
>> On the mat, where it counts, you'd know you're not a bb. So would everyone
>> you roll with.
>
>That's irrelevant. Let's project that grappling continues it's popularity
>trend
>and HUNDREDS of these grappling McDojos spring up who give out black belts to
>people who learn to properly give a warm hug. Suddenly you've got THOUSANDS
>upon THOUSANDS of "Grappling Black Belts" wandering around out there.
Lets not suppose.
You "supposed" years back.
And I still await the evidence.
BillMahoney68
>
>BillMahoney68 wrote:
>
>> Im still waiting on the mcdojo...
>
>Go ask Gene Simco. He's complaining about them.
Good for him.
Hes wrong.
GreenDistantStar
> >But funny how sambo/sombo guys have never really made a mark
> >in mma.
>
> Fedor?
Yes, Fedor is the exception, and exceptions disprove rules.
And btw, Roy Harris doesn't have a bb...I was thinking of his coach, Joe
Moreira.
Damn I'm batting .001 at the moment :(
Lt. Tyrone Slothrop
> (ie. no real day job) often 2x/day 6days/wk.
Sorry. I misspoke. It seems that Lloyd did not take classes
fulltime, but he did "train" fulltime. I had missed the distinction
between taking classes with an instructor vs. training with a partner.
Here is some more stuff Lloyd posted publicly to mma.tv's Atama BJJ
forum (http://www.mma.tv/TUF/DisplayMessages.cfm?TID=244688&P=67&FID=11&c=1)
addressing the naysayers:
--------------------------------------------------
From: Lloyd Irvin
Date: 01-Jul-03 09:31 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
26 Total Posts
Edited:01-Jul-03 12:54 PM, Edited:01-Jul-03 12:52 PM,
Edited:01-Jul-03 10:1
Ridgeback I'm not sure what your intentions are but let me clarify
some things for you. That way you can only investigate what is coming
directly from my mouth.
"I wonder why he has to resort to Matt Furey adds to sell a product."
This is not Matt Furey ads. It is called Direct Response Advertising.
It has been around for before any of us were born. It is the absolute
best way to get a message across when you don't have the ability to
explain yourself. It basically gives a consumer all of the information
so they can make a decision whether they want to buy or not. Either
your interested or you're not. If a person is not interested there no
way on earth they will sit and read those long letters. But the people
that are interested will.
"The tape set I have in which he is a blue belt has a 1996 copyright.
If he got his black belt in 2000 that would still be 4 years plus
however long it took him to get his blue belt. "
I got my blue belt in less than 30 days. Your theory about still being
4 years plus. Is wrong but I'll let you calculate it. It would all
depend on when in 1996 the tape was made "it was the winter of 1996"
and when in 2000 July. It may work out to be 3 years 7 or 8 months if
you want to be specific. That why in the body of website I put all
under 4 years, just for people like you.
"Also, If Lloyd only trained full time then it isn't even relevant for
most people since training all day for 3 years without a full-time job
is like training 10 years for an average guy."
Yes I trained full time.
"Like I said, though, getting a black belt in 4 years if all you do is
train all day every day is not that great of an accomplishment. How
fast do you think you would progress if you only had to train
everyday, you had access to good training partners and instruction,
and you had no financial concerns? I am not saying this was Lloyd's
situation, but I am under the impression it was B.J. Penn's."
I'm not sure of B.J's situation. Here is mine so you can do your own
research. I didn't have good training partners at all during my run.
My instructor Leo Dalla had to move back to Brazil 6 months after I
started training with him. So I only had an instructor watching me
everyday for 6 months. Everything else I did was basically by myself,
ie self trained using my system. Although I went to Brazil and brought
Leo back to the states when I could. During this early time I was
trying to run my own school but it wasn't going to well because I was
more concerned with training.
When Dalla left I had a guy named Jeff Ruth who is still my student.
That was my only training partner at first. Since I was just a blue
belt and no one at that time wanted to train under a blue belt. During
my first couple of years I had only white and blue belts to train
with. I also had 4 knee surgeries and one elbow surgery during this
perios which kept me sidelined quite a bit.
"I want to hear from the guy who held down a full-time job and had a
wife and kids and still got his black belt in bjj in 4 years. Now that
would be quite an accomplisment! "
I understand you want to hear from this type of guy and I agree with
you, that would be quite an accomplishment.
Let me tell you who I want to hear from.
I want to hear from people that are interested in learning what I did
that allowed me to get where I am today. Whether you believe it or not
no one else has a system like I do and if they do they sure aren't
making it available to the general public.
If your not interested in it fine. If you are fine.
Let me also say this. Most people already understand this. If you got
to the Black belt level in 2 years some instructors still wouldn't
promote you for 10 years. I know that, You know that. This program is
what I used and it will be for people that are interested in how I did
it.
It's clear to me that people are interested in what it is because
since the website has gone online Saturday over 1000 have joined the
e-mail list to get more information.
Hopefully I have answered most of your concerns Ridgeback. If you have
anymore questions please feel free to e-mail me at
in...@lloydirvin.com. Thanks
Lloyd Irvin
If anyone else has a specific questioon please e-mail me.
==========================================================
From: Lloyd Irvin
Date: 01-Jul-03 11:30 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
28 Total Posts
Edited:01-Jul-03 11:34 AM
Phil I hope this can answer your question.
In 1999 I went to Brazil as a purple belt and got promoted to Brown
Belt. Three days after being promoted to brown belt I fought in the
Brazilian Team Championships where I beat Jose Mario Esfiha(sp) from
Alliance, he was a Black Belt and I was a 3 day old brown belt.
That same year 1999 in the mudials brown belt I won my first 2 matches
in my weight division before losing my next match on points to a guy
from gracie barra.
In the brown belt open division of the mudials I won my first 3
matches before losing my fourth match to margarida by choke.
So YES someone could hang in the Brown Belt Division of the Mudials
that is promoted to Black in under 4 years. Also remember I did that
and hadn't been in for a full 3 years yet.
As a Black Belt being promoted in under four years I also did really
well in the Black Belt Mudial divisions. Although my first year as a
Black belt I lost in my weight division first round 2*0 but I really
thought I had a guard pass that I didn't get points for and I had a
really good picture in the magazine that showed me having the guy in a
full blown kimura but he got out. Damn flexibility. But the picture
looks good. haha
Here's a link to the Gracie Magazine article they did on me in 1999
when I beat a Black Belt when I was only a brown belt. You can see the
photo of me and Esfiha. Let me also say that me and Esfiha have become
good friends, I was just using this as an example to answer your
question.
www.lloydirvin.com/thaijitsu/graciemag.pdf
Lloyd Irvin
==========================================================
From: Lloyd Irvin
Date: 01-Jul-03 11:46 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
29 Total Posts
No problem Ridgeback. I figured sooner or later I would have to answer
some questions from people that didn't really know me. I don't have a
problem with that.
Everybody that knows me knows my integrity. I'm 100% loyal to the
hardcore BJJ way.
I'm not selling belts, or anything like that. My headline is just what
I've accomplished, I'm not saying everyone else will be able to
accoplish it also. It will take discipline and dedication. But it will
allow ANYONE to get better, give them a clear an consise step by step
plan on how to do it, it is different process than has ever been
introduced before. Everyone at all belt levels with be able to benefit
from this system. Like I said if you have any questions at all feel
free to e-mail me.
Thanks for joining my list.
==========================================================
From: Lloyd Irvin
Date: 02-Jul-03 05:28 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
30 Total Posts
I'm going to try to answer everyone's questions. If I miss you please
forgive me.
Chris Cowboy
I'm glad your back to training. That's great about you competing
again. I made my debut back at the NAGA PRO am, I missed a flying
triangle and knocked myself out. I woke up with the medic holding my
neck telling me not to move, the ambulance is on its way. I was like
not again. Haha I looked at my hands and feet to see if I could move
them but I was ok. I had a terrible headache for a few days though.
Glad your back on the mat.
Gubbs
I don't have a release date yet.
Hitman
It's going to be a bunch of things but I don't want to say right now.
Sorry about that. It will not be what anyone is used to.
MG
Everyone listen to what he is saying. He is totally correct on his
position. I'll leave it at that. MG you have excellent wisdom.
Stewedowl
It will be all of the above and more.
PA Outlaw
I can't remember quite when the NYC challenge was. Around 4 years.
When injured I had special visualization training I did for at least
2-3 hours a day along with watching a lot of tapes. I was a complete
tape head. Tournament tapes that is.
Ridgeback
No problem
Cruze
Thanks
KingA
I haven't even thought about price yet.
OV1
Thanks
Angelo
I can't tell you when you can expect your black. That will be for your
instructor to decide. How long you take to get to the highest possible
level for your own personal limitations and capabilities is up to you.
Gooch
No I didn't start doing judo until I hooked up with rhadi and he
started throwing me on my head on a regular basis. I was one of those
guys that had no respect for judo at first. I used to take my guys to
local judo tournaments and we used to beat judo black belts all of the
time. I thought they sucked. I was only a blue belt in BJJ and I was
tapping Judo Black Belts. I'm sure that sounds familiar. Anyway Rhadi
showed me the true power of Judo, and then I learned to respect it.
But at the time I still didn't want to learn it because I was a gung
ho Bjj blue belt and I didn't feel that I needed to learn it. If the
guy was that good standing I would just pull guard. Luckily as I
became more mature in this sport, I changed my mind and decided to
learn judo.
As far as sombo is concerned I didn't start that until later also.
Sombo hurt my BJJ game at first because I stopped trying to learn how
to pass for a while; my mindset was more that people needed to learn
how to defend legs. My sombo instructor hates BJJ and my BJJ
instructor didn't really care for sombo at the time. So it made for
some funny stories.
I hope I responded to everyone. Also thanks for the e-mails your
sending me.
I've very busy. I'm getting married in 3 days, then leaving the
country for my honeymoon. This week has been crazy.
Peace
Also I wanted to thank everyone else for the kind words.
Andre it's good to see you're still out there. Fabio sent me an e-mail
last month. I'm glad he found somewhere to teach.
'Vejita' S. Cousin
But I didn't say class, I said train. That's al part of the game. I
know some guys that come to class 5x/wk but do ZERO training outside of
class. They're good, but they don't work their cardio, conditioning,
review techinques, etc. etc. All of which is necesssary to progress.
Personally during the summer I'm going to Judo M/W/F and BJJ
M/Tu/W/Th/Sa. That's a lot of class time. But it's only 2hrs/day. I
also workout in the morning Su-F (~1:15), watch tapes, review my notes,
eat right, etc. etc.
You've got to work the entire game if you want to move to the top.
Bottomline not everyone can follow 'the plan/path' that BJ took.
GreenDistantStar
"Kirk Lawson" <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote in message
news:3F0426A7...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX...
> That's irrelevant.
It's reality, Kirk...at least today's reality...and easily verifiable.
Let's project that grappling continues it's popularity trend
> and HUNDREDS of these grappling McDojos spring up who give out black belts
to
> people who learn to properly give a warm hug. Suddenly you've got
THOUSANDS
> upon THOUSANDS of "Grappling Black Belts" wandering around out there. The
> public eventually comes to believe that these grappling black belts don't
have
> any more skills then a teenage girl and there are so few "real" black
belts that
> they become mythic beings which the rest of the martial arts community
doesn't
> believe really exists. Prop up the system by instituting extremely
limited rule
> sets for competition.
>
> Get the picture?
Yes, I get the picture, but it's merely one of many possible scenarios. How
about BJJ/mma etc spreads like wildfire throughout the McDojo's of the
world, converting millions away from their sham arts?
> > You'd not even be kidding yourself.
>
> Sure you could.
I suppose you could... hey, there's a guy here who thinks Columbine was a
staged event, so there's probably no limit to the delusions some will
believe...even self-delusions.
BJJ McDojo's? Yeah it's a possibility, but crikey it's a hard art in which
to fake mastery. Resisting opponents with skills tend to shatter illusions.
Olaf
"kirks...@operamail.com" wrote:
> billma...@aol.com (BillMahoney68) wrote in message
>
> > First off this isnt a "mcdojo" because it isnt a >dojo.
>
> True. But is sure seems likea bad omen. BJJ black in 3.5yrs? Yeah, if
> you train 6 day a week maybe.
>
If the one fellow was an alternative on the olympic judo team 6 days
a week would have been relaxing; olympic athletes generally work
out every day for 4 to 8 hours a day. He also would have come
into it in better shape than 99% of the population. And his grappling
instincts would have been pretty sharp...
-Olaf
kirks...@operamail.com
>If the one fellow was an alternative on the olympic >judo team 6 days
a week would have been relaxing; >olympic athletes generally work out
every day for 4 to >8 hours a day.
Which exactly proves my point abt the "100% guarantee, 3.5 yrs to BB".
Anyhow, I've signed up for the free email coaching notes. I'm 100000%
happy to be proven wrong in my original impression. We shall see.
Harvey Hensley
I am training at a school affiliated with Lloyd's. Our training
methods seem to be very much in line with what others are doing in
BJJ, so I will also be interested in this new system. I can say that
the standards for getting belts is also in line with what other BJJ
schools do. Blue belt is a beginners belt - most people who train
diligently (2-3 times/week) for a year get there. Purple belts go to
people who are competitive at the advanced level in NAGA tournaments,
and who are also quite skilled. Could be 3-5 years or more after
getting blue. My teacher, Jared Weiner is currently competing at an
international level, has been training 7 years (I think), and wears a
brown belt. So Lloyd is definitely NOT handing out just handing out
belts, and is maintaining standards all down the line. FWIW
Harvey
GreenDistantStar
Know who, Bob?
Bigfoot? sure.... he lives in my backyard, along with the leprechauns and
the faeries.
Or a TKD BB teaching Bjj? Yeah...he's in there too somewhere.
Actually, one of our evil little machines (Mikey) has a TKB bb..
But we don't remind him about it....he gets all funny when you mention it :)
Peter
Kirk Lawson
"'Vejita' S. Cousin" wrote:
> Hmm, you mean just like judo or boxing. Or HS wrestling. I open a
> school, claim I can box. And the fact that my students always lose, well
> that's life.
When's the last time you heard an Old Timer complain about the state of
Wrestling in the U.S.? For that matter, read some of the history on Wrestling
in America and compare what they did in 1790 to what they do now.
As for Boxing, you *are* aware of the history of Boxing, aren't you? Boxing
*IS* wattered down from what it used to be.
Should we do a comparison of the rule changes for Judo Shiai now as contrasted
against the same rules circa 1900?
> BJJ, boxing, MT, wrestling, savate, etc. are a little different than
> most other MA. The focus is on randori, sparring, and tournaments.
> Anyone can open a McDojo in any of these arts (in fact several have been
> opened in the past and most likely will be again in the future). However,
> their students all suck. And when they face 'non McDojo schools' they
> lose.
TKD has a lot of sparring too.
> Now if your saying that the way around this is they simply change the
> rules, or water down the rules. Fair enough, that's what people claim
> happened to karate/TKD in the US. Again thou I point towards judo (which
> is a fair comparison). Why didn't this happen in judo?
Strange that you should mention changing the rules. I've got a MA 'zine from
this year that has an interview with one of the Gracies where he's explaining
that the new rule changes he instituted aren't *really* wattering down the art
they're to make the competition better and safer.
> Could BJJ turn into a huge McDojo art like TKD? Sure anything could
> happen, it might rain toads tomorrow. But it's not likely to happen given
> the nature of the art.
Well, I doubt it'll turn into TKD either, but BJJ in specific and Grappling in
general will likely continue a trend towards being "less" than what it once
was. Same as happened in Boxing, Wrestling, and Judo.
Kirk Lawson
Compare and contrast the current BJJ tournament rules to those 50 years ago then
get back with me.
Kirk Lawson
GreenDistantStar wrote:
>
> "Kirk Lawson" <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote in message
> news:3F0426A7...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX...
>
> > That's irrelevant.
>
> It's reality, Kirk...at least today's reality...and easily verifiable.
But not relevant to the point, really.
> Yes, I get the picture, but it's merely one of many possible scenarios. How
> about BJJ/mma etc spreads like wildfire throughout the McDojo's of the
> world, converting millions away from their sham arts?
Sure. That's the way it always happens in the beginning. When Karate and Judo
came over Boxing and Wrestling were the ones that suffered. When TKD came over,
Karate & Judo were the ones that suffered (more Karate I'd think but
anyway...). Now that BJJ has come over TKD is the one that's suffering.
My prediction: BJJ will start down the inevitable "watering" path (some evidence
that it already has) and there will be a resurgence of "the old style" Boxing
and Wrestling. BJJ will suffer and the cycle will begin anew.
> > > You'd not even be kidding yourself.
> >
> > Sure you could.
>
> I suppose you could... hey, there's a guy here who thinks Columbine was a
> staged event, so there's probably no limit to the delusions some will
> believe...even self-delusions.
>
> BJJ McDojo's? Yeah it's a possibility, but crikey it's a hard art in which
> to fake mastery. Resisting opponents with skills tend to shatter illusions.
It's a pretty easy process, if a bit longish. Usually two to four generations.
The rules keep getting changed to make competition safer and more and more "I
teach the same skills just under a different name" schools spring up. Fewer and
fewer of guys with "real skills" exist. Until one day people look around and
go, "Jim's a BJJ/Grappling 10th Dan extra stripe exalted Black Belt and some kid
from the tennis team beat him up!"
kirks...@operamail.com
> Know who, Bob?
>
> Bigfoot? sure.... he lives in my backyard, along with > the leprechauns and the faeries.
.....
....nah...too easy a set up....
> Or a TKD BB teaching Bjj? Yeah...he's in there too > somewhere.
Oh come, you and fraiser said you the guy. Runs the ads on TV.
Burradge I think.
Speaking of which, were in northbridge now. You *gotta* see this place
- underground garage. Just got back from training - we worked so hard
everyone's head was steaming and all the windows fogged up ;-)
Oh and PS: met Piotr. Man sure likes his leg locks ;-)
Olaf
Kirk Lawson wrote:
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
> GreenDistantStar wrote:
> >
> > "Kirk Lawson" <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> wrote in message
> > news:3F0426A7...@heapy.com_SPAMSUX...
> >
> > > That's irrelevant.
> >
> > It's reality, Kirk...at least today's reality...and easily verifiable.
>
> But not relevant to the point, really.
>
> > Yes, I get the picture, but it's merely one of many possible scenarios. How
> > about BJJ/mma etc spreads like wildfire throughout the McDojo's of the
> > world, converting millions away from their sham arts?
>
> Sure. That's the way it always happens in the beginning. When Karate and Judo
> came over Boxing and Wrestling were the ones that suffered. When TKD came over,
> Karate & Judo were the ones that suffered (more Karate I'd think but
> anyway...). Now that BJJ has come over TKD is the one that's suffering.
>
> My prediction: BJJ will start down the inevitable "watering" path (some evidence
> that it already has) and there will be a resurgence of "the old style" Boxing
> and Wrestling. BJJ will suffer and the cycle will begin anew.
>
Interesting enough its a lot like pathogen evolution. When a new virus or
bacteria enters the human population its usually very deadly, but after
a while mutates into something that doesn't kill its host simply because
this is for the virus or bacteria the best survival strategy (can't feed
off a dead host...if you do it really well you become symbiotic like
some ecoli bacteria).
The same thing probably happens with martial
arts; the more effective you are for real fighting the harder and more
painful the training is (to be effective you really have to sparr under
conditions that are close to real fighting, hard on the body) and the
less long term adherrents you get. Initially you'll get a few because
its new, but most will leave with middle age, painful injuries etc.
The dojo owners seeing their cash flow dropping below the minimum
they need to keep running will offer less rigerous classes more likely
to attract people who have jobs, families etc outside of training,
and soon find that there's alot more interest in the less rigorous
classes.
-Olaf
and drain deez nuts
>then
>get back with me.
>
>Peace favor your sword (IH)
In sport BJJ? They havent' changed much.
Trav
Grappler240
>then
>get back with me.
the bjj tourneys didn't even start until the mid 70s.
G240
Fraser Johnston
Burridge is the dudes name. Has a TKD school in Canning Vale. I really
doubt he is a BB in BJJ. It appears to be a real belt factory but I could
be wrong. I think it is because how many decent MA instructors do you know
who drive 5 year old Lotus Esprits.
Fraser
BillMahoney68
>
>Know who, Bob?
>
>Bigfoot? sure.... he lives in my backyard, along with the leprechauns and
>the faeries.
I got 50 that sez my yeti could pimp your bigfoot.
BillMahoney68
>
>> >: Kirk Lawson
>>
>> >
>> >> On the mat, where it counts, you'd know you're not a bb. So would
>everyone
>> >> you roll with.
>> >
>> >That's irrelevant. Let's project that grappling continues it's popularity
>> >trend
>> >and HUNDREDS of these grappling McDojos spring up who give out black belts
>to
>> >people who learn to properly give a warm hug. Suddenly you've got
>THOUSANDS
>> >upon THOUSANDS of "Grappling Black Belts" wandering around out there.
>>
>> Lets not suppose.
>> You "supposed" years back.
>> And I still await the evidence.
>
>Compare and contrast the current BJJ tournament rules to those 50 years ago
>then
>get back with me.
Sport BJJ was invented in the 1970's.
So I got no clue what you are babbling about.
BillMahoney68
>
>My prediction: BJJ will start down the inevitable "watering" path
you predicted this awhile back.
Back when RMA kept calling bjj a "fad".
>some evidence
>that it already has) a
yiur saying this alot dont make it true.
>. BJJ will suffer and the cycle will begin anew.
your mothers cycle will begin anew.
GreenDistantStar
> Oh come, you and fraiser said you the guy. Runs the ads on TV.
> Burradge I think.
Oh OK...at cross purposes here....
>
> Speaking of which, were in northbridge now. You *gotta* see this place
> - underground garage. Just got back from training - we worked so hard
> everyone's head was steaming and all the windows fogged up ;-)
>
> Oh and PS: met Piotr. Man sure likes his leg locks ;-)
Say G'day for me. Piotr is a nice guy...really helpful and a helluva
grappler....strong as buggery too.
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GreenDistantStar
I got a Yowie that eats Yetis. Your 50 is gone Mahoney...gone, gone, gone!
;)
http://www.theaustralianyowieresearchcenter.com/
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GreenDistantStar
> your mothers cycle will begin anew.
LOFL!!! So help me God I almost lost a lung on that one.
You missed your calling, Bill.
Kirk Lawson
>
> >Compare and contrast the current BJJ tournament rules to those 50 years ago
> >then
> >get back with me.
>
> the bjj tourneys didn't even start until the mid 70s.
>
> G240
I distinctly remember reading of competitions and challenge matches in the early
Gracie dojos.
Did they not have Randori back then?
Grappler240
>early
>Gracie dojos.
>
not in tourneys you didn't. and in the early matches it was either a: a
challenge match with no rules and no referee, no time limit, etc. or b: just a
sub match to the finish, usually no time limit there either. No tourneys until
Rolls invented them inthe mid 70s.
>Did they not have Randori back then?
not in tourneys....just in class and challenges, and maybe the occasional
school vs. school thing. the major difference is the scoring system used today
that was invented by Rolls.
we pretty much still do that same stuff from 50 years ago....except that our
technique is MUCH better.
I think we improve more with each decade that passes.
g240
BillMahoney68
>
>> >Compare and contrast the current BJJ tournament rules to those 50 years
>ago
>> >then
>> >get back with me.
>>
>> the bjj tourneys didn't even start until the mid 70s.
>>
>> G240
>
>I distinctly remember reading of competitions and challenge matches in the
>early
>Gracie dojos.
Youre wrong dude.Trust me.
BJJ sport started in 1973.It was unique.Prior to it there was nothing similar.
There were a few no time limit grapple til a sub match but this is VERY
different from sport BJJ which is a simulation of a vale tudo fight.
>
>Did they not have Randori back then?
Sure.Of course they did.
So?
Gi