531 -> db97531
Adam Rowney
531 -> db97531
I have a big interest in these kind of tricks.
But who first juggled them?
I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
know when they were first done.
Also do these tricks have a group name?
Adam
ps, im really good at 31
--
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Erik Jernqvist
> But who first juggled them?
> I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
> 531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
> know when they were first done.
531 should have been invented by tons of people throughout the history,
even I did. 7531 and 97531 are slightly less likely to have been invented
before siteswap, and if they were b97531 and db9731 should have been
thought, even though they were not juggled by anyone.
fakoriginal
>
>
> 531 -> db97531
>
> I have a big interest in these kind of tricks.
>
> But who first juggled them?
> I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
> 531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
> know when they were first done.
>
> Also do these tricks have a group name?
>
> Adam
>
> ps, im really good at 31
>
Do you want to know who juggled the patterns first or who juggled them by
their siteswap names? Siteswap is just a notation system, there must have
been plenty of jugglers through history who just thought "If I lob this
one up high I've got time to do this stuff before it comes back down
again".
fak
Brian Craven
>
>
> 531 -> db97531
>
> I have a big interest in these kind of tricks.
>
> But who first juggled them?
> I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
> 531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
> know when they were first done.
>
> Also do these tricks have a group name?
>
> Adam
>
> ps, im really good at 31
>
I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
Brian
fredo
> I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
> wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
No, you're right.
Mutton
> Brian Craven wrote:
>
>>I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
>>wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
>
>
> No, you're right.
>
No, you're wrong.
--
Andrew Gradisher
Towers is a common name for 633, go figure.
Ricky.Blackman
>
> fredo wrote:
> > Brian Craven wrote:
> >
> >>I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
> >>wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
> >
> >
> > No, you're right.
> >
>
> No, you're wrong.
>
I had a feeling that 12345, 1234567, 123456789,etc were the tower family?
Just a feeling, not based on anything but a hunch.
Adam Rowney
> Do you want to know who juggled the patterns first or who juggled them by
> their siteswap names? Siteswap is just a notation system, there must have
> been plenty of jugglers through history who just thought "If I lob this
> one up high I've got time to do this stuff before it comes back down
> again".
Well both i guess, like, who did 97531 first. Perhaps someone came up with
this in there head, but i doubt anyone just "did" b97531, and i especially
doubt anyone just "doing" db97531
Anyone got any ideas?
Adam Rowney
>
> Mutton wrote:
> >
> > fredo wrote:
> > > Brian Craven wrote:
> > >
> > >>I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because
the
> > >>wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
> > >
> > >
> > > No, you're right.
> > >
> >
> > No, you're wrong.
> >
>
> I had a feeling that 12345, 1234567, 123456789,etc were the tower family?
> Just a feeling, not based on anything but a hunch.
I thought both 633 (663 and all the others etc etc)
and 12345, 1234567, 123456789 and all the others etc etc
were both tower patterns.
Brian Craven
>
> fredo wrote:
> > Brian Craven wrote:
> >
> >>I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
> >>wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
> >
> >
> > No, you're right.
> >
>
> No, you're wrong.
>
I did say tower patterns as opposed to towers. ;)
Brian
Being pedantic today (and most other days :))
jugglingeek
>
>
> 531 -> db97531
>
> I have a big interest in these kind of tricks.
>
> But who first juggled them?
> I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
> 531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
> know when they were first done.
>
> Also do these tricks have a group name?
>
> Adam
>
> ps, im really good at 31
>
The big craze for these patterns came shortly after Thomas Dietz released
his series of ten juggling videos. The final shot of video #6 is of Dietz
doing one round of db97531. Although he was not the first person do do
this (reports are that Ben Bever had done this before) he was the first
person to film it and make it available on the web. Since db97531 is
astronomically hard people started learning the five ball version 97531. I
first remember hearing of this pattern at the BJC in Derby, since then it
had become a reliable part of the repetoir of any siteswap juggler worth
their salt.
Jason Quinn
> astronomically hard people started learning the five ball version 97531. I
> first remember hearing of this pattern at the BJC in Derby, since then it
> had become a reliable part of the repetoir of any siteswap juggler worth
> their salt.
I don't really remember where I learned 97531 but it was well-known
earlier than 2004. It was one of the tricks in Orr's list for Jugglemaster
for instance. I agree that it was Thomas' video that made people go ga-ga
over db97531. I've never quite understood why people treat db so
specially.
Jason
_daniel_
>
> Well both i guess, like, who did 97531 first. Perhaps someone came up with
> this in there head, but i doubt anyone just "did" b97531, and i especially
> doubt anyone just "doing" db97531
>
> Anyone got any ideas?
>
Perhaps Boppo? (Bruce Tiemann)
considering he was the co-inventor of siteswap he certainly knew about
97531, b97531 and db97531 in the mid 80's.
I recall seeing a video of him running 97531 and it appeared to be a
pretty old video...
~Daniel
Adam Rowney
> The big craze for these patterns came shortly after Thomas Dietz released
> his series of ten juggling videos. The final shot of video #6 is of Dietz
> doing one round of db97531. Although he was not the first person do do
> this (reports are that Ben Bever had done this before) he was the first
> person to film it and make it available on the web. Since db97531 is
> astronomically hard people started learning the five ball version 97531. I
> first remember hearing of this pattern at the BJC in Derby, since then it
> had become a reliable part of the repetoir of any siteswap juggler worth
> their salt.
One day, i hope to be able to pull off db97531 but until then, im working
on getting 97531 more reliable, and with longer runs. I can see myself
doing b97531 within my yearly goals list (birthday to birthday, something
i started recently).
Adam Rowney
Do you or anyone else know how I could contact him. Or perhaps someone who
knows him can do so on my behalf.
If you can forward me an email address, i would appreciate it, although
probably best to email me it, otherwise he might get some un-wanted mail
from others using his email address...
**wonders if siteswap history questions would count as un-wanted**
Le_lemGo
Try and get your 31 solid first (cf. your first post), then move on...
lemGo
Adam Rowney
> Try and get your 31 solid first (cf. your first post), then move on...
> lemGo
Oh, im trying so hard, but i find it so difficult, can anyone please give
me some tips. 31 just seem beyond me...
*sighs*
what am i to do...
**looks up oprah/springer/dr.phil**
Le_lemGo
>
> Le_lemGo wrote:
> > Try and get your 31 solid first (cf. your first post), then move on...
> > lemGo
>
> Oh, im trying so hard, but i find it so difficult, can anyone please give
> me some tips. 31 just seem beyond me...
>
> *sighs*
>
> what am i to do...
>
> **looks up oprah/springer/dr.phil**
>
To begin with, you ought to work thouroughly on your 1... That would be my
best advice ;)
lemGo
Adam Rowney
>
> Brian Craven wrote:
> > I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
> > wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
>
> No, you're right.
>
So,
97531 is called a 5 ball tower (not towers)?
It certainly seems like a good name.
Or not...
ultimatewannabe
To learn 31, I would suggest a brain surgery to remove your juggling
knowledge and then try to learn. It seems to come naturally to those who
have never tried. :) Maybe talk to Carey about that, he mentioned
wanting to become a brain surgeon once, he could help you a lot with 31.
Who knows, by the time he gets done it may be your only trick.
UW
tiff
i call db97531 'the trick' ive been able to do it for 2 years now and it
hasnt got a whole lot easier, the problems have just changed, at the start
it was the heights now, it is the 31, ive also never done a variation with
it, ive done behind the back, neck and 2 cycles to a gather but never
managed those precious 14 catches afterwards
its special in the same way 12 balls is special, it is unbelievably
outragiously difficult, ben has only ever managed it 15 to 20 times he
told me a while, and he was the first one to do it. i can now do it ever
time i practice, but it still takes me ages sometimes.
it has to be pretty much perfect to work.
do it and youll understand why its so special
tiff
xx
The Void
> 531 -> db97531
> Also do these tricks have a group name?
Freezeframes.
The Void
................
Icepop.
Adam Rowney
> i call db97531 'the trick' ive been able to do it for 2 years now and it
> hasnt got a whole lot easier, the problems have just changed, at the start
> it was the heights now, it is the 31, ive also never done a variation with
> it, ive done behind the back, neck and 2 cycles to a gather but never
> managed those precious 14 catches afterwards
Has anyone else managed more than 2 cycles?
Love the name "the trick", i think it suits it...
> its special in the same way 12 balls is special, it is unbelievably
> outragiously difficult, ben has only ever managed it 15 to 20 times he
> told me a while, and he was the first one to do it. i can now do it ever
> time i practice, but it still takes me ages sometimes.
I take it you mean Ben Beaver?
Adam Rowney
>
> Adam Rowney wrote:
>
> > 531 -> db97531
> > Also do these tricks have a group name?
>
> Freezeframes.
>
> The Void
> ................
> Icepop.
Do you know if tower is used as well, like 97531 being named a 5 ball
tower,
or is it just 5 ball freezeframe to you...
Thanks in advance :D
Adam
Jason Quinn
> it has to be pretty much perfect to work.
> do it and youll understand why its so special
> tiff
How would you compare db97531 to b97531? It it a piece of cake?
Jason
tiff
im aware, dietz might have, and of course hes done it twice in the same
run of 7.
first day in slovenia he tried it first time to gather to c if he had the
height, he then did it another 5 times in a row perfectly, my jaw hit the
floor, later of course i requested db97522 and norbi asked him for it, he
did it first time.....
having never tried it before.....
tiff
i could perform it first time, ive also managed it 5 cycles to gather and
3 cycles then back to 6,both me and peter, and probably more have done 2
cycles of b975316 then back to pattern.
ive also done it with the 1 behind the head and neck, but not both
(db9751111), that would be cool!
tiff
xx
Adam Rowney
>
>
> 531 -> db97531
>
>
> But who first juggled them?
> I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
> 531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
> know when they were first done.
>
>
>
> ps, im really good at 31
Thanks a lot for everyone's reply's. Your reply's have all been very
helpful to me.
Ben Beaver was the first to do the db97531
These patterns it seem are sometimes called "tower" and "freezeframe"
patterns.
Example: 97531 = 5 ball tower/freezeframe
(I personnally like tower better)
Thanks to everyone.
Adam
Dreamjuggler
> > But who first juggled them?
> > I know siteswap came about in 1985, but does anyone lay claim to juggling
> > 531 first, or 7531 and onwards to the legendary db97531 and does anyone
> > know when they were first done.
Bruce G. Tiemann wrote back in 1994:
18 Aug. 1994, 19:48
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Von: b...@cco.caltech.edu (Bruce G. Tiemann)
Datum: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 17:36:33 GMT
Lokal: Do 18 Aug. 1994 19:36
Betreff: high throws...
Jim Llyod wrote:
Boppo, if you're attempting 13 11 9 7 5 3 1 (a 7 ball trick), does that
mean you can do the 6 ball analog 11 9 7 5 3 1? If so, do you run it
continuously, or just a single cycle?
I've managed to get 11 9 7 5 3 1 just once, just barely.
11 6 6 6 6 1 and 9 7 5 3 1 are both quite possible to do, both ways,
but I don't practice running them. I'm not even attempting 13 11 9 7 5 3
1
yet, as I haven't done 13 7 7 7 7 7 1 clean yet. I've either flashed
it and gotten everything, or tried to keep going and wiped out promptly,
both from "stable" cascades. (I'll do this trick ...just...as...soon...
as...I...get...this...pattern...under...control...whoops...)
The only siteswaps I've managed to qualify by running
continuously,
in seven balls, are (8x,6x), 8 6, 8 8 8 8 8 8 1, 9 6 6, and 9 9 9 1, and
also (8x,6) (8,6x). Note that they all have only _two_ different
throw heights; this makes them much eaiser for me, at least, to run.
Oh yeah, and the good ol' 13 1. Special case.
-boppo
491 patterns for the solo juggler, written back in 1990:
"probably unplayable, but interesting in that the balls are thrown from
both hands to every level from 1 to 5"
HTH
DJ
Adam Rowney
History lessons are great, thanks :D
jugglingeek
I'd like to point out that Dietz did db97522 with a pirouette durring the
22. Tiff didn't mention that so I thought I should. That was without doubt
the best thing I've ever seen a juggler do. Not because of the trick but
because of the playful way he did it. I think even Thomas will agree that
he was on fire that afternoon yet his personna was that of a lesser
juggler just dicking around. I havn't seen Thomas practice since then but
I hope he hasn't lost that fun-loving "happy juggler" vibe that he had
with him in Slovinia.
Jugglingeek
OT: just watched Harry And Kumar Get The Munchies tonight on DVD. It comes
highly recomended as possibly the only _satirical_ stoner comedy.
Dreamjuggler
Luke Wilson
>
> The Void wrote:
> >
> > Adam Rowney wrote:
> >
> > > 531 -> db97531
> > > Also do these tricks have a group name?
> >
> > Freezeframes.
> >
> > The Void
> > ................
> > Icepop.
>
> Do you know if tower is used as well, like 97531 being named a 5 ball
> tower
Tower is the old school name for 633.
Regards,
(Old School) Luke
Adam Rowney
>
> Adam Rowney wrote:
> >
> > The Void wrote:
> > >
> > > Adam Rowney wrote:
> > >
> > > > 531 -> db97531
> > > > Also do these tricks have a group name?
> > >
> > > Freezeframes.
> > >
> > > The Void
> > > ................
> > > Icepop.
> >
> > Do you know if tower is used as well, like 97531 being named a 5 ball
> > tower
>
> Tower is the old school name for 633.
That would be "towers" as there are two of them going up and down on
either side...
http://www.jugglingdb.com/records/record.php?trick=30
and also for 1234567 ...
http://www.jugglingdb.com/records/record.php?trick=126
Brian Craven mentioned:
I was of the impression that they were called 'tower' patterns because the
wall all the balls line up in the air but I could be wrong...
The void had heard of another name for it, (freezeframe)
Adam