What is an FN 5.7 handgun?
Animeniac
6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
What about it gets it called a cop killer?
JR
--------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
--------------------------------------------------------------
David R.Birch
# 6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
It's another metric designation for .224.
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
Body armor penetration, although the ammo loaded with the required
bullet that does this isn't sold commercially, AFAIK.
David
sta...@prolynx.com
# 6.35 is .25 cal. �A 5.7 is smaller yet.
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
# JR
#
This is FN's answer to body armor. The cartridge is basically a 10mm
necked to .22, the pistol is a blowback with a plastic("polymer")
frame and is light-weight and high-capacity. The "cop-killer" part
comes from the original ammo which is designed to penetrate body
armor, has a penetrator core in the bullet. US civilians can't get
that stuff, federal law prohibits sale, so the only thing available
from FN here is the practice ammo, basically lead-core FMJ. No "cop-
killer" there. Ballistically, it's about like a .22 WMR from a
rifle. As far as I know, FN is the only producer of ammo for it, it's
been running about 50-70 cents a round. It was originally chambered in
FN's "personal defense weapon", seen running around on the TV show
"Stargate" for many seasons. This can be had in a civilian legal form
for a couple of grand. It's been touted as THE answer to arming non-
combatant military personnel since they can hit with it at extended
ranges. Not sure what either of them is really good for with the FMJ
practice ammo, maybe squirrels, rabbits and close-in small varmints.
And shooting TV aliens, not the illegal sort.
MSM media coverage, what there's been of it, has been on a par with
the introduction of the Glock, plain hysteria. Unlike the Glock,
there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of interest from police
departments in replacing their current side arms and patrol rifles
with either offering or civilian interest either. So not a lot of
traction being gained from politicians railing against it.
In the civilian market, the Five-Seven pistol has been priced higher
than pistols in standard calibers, I've seen $700-900 tags on them,
you can get any number of guns in real defensive calibers for that.
The semi-auto PDW seems to hover around the 2 grand mark, again, you
can get several ARs, AKs or varmint bolt guns for that amount and have
ammo money left. They're more of a toy or curiosity in the civilian
market. Don't know of anyone being shot with one or how the civilian-
legal round would do for defense, cited ballistics aren't encouraging
for other than small game with the practice FMJ, they don't have body
armor.
Stan
DT
#6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
#
#I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
#What about it gets it called a cop killer?
It shoots a small diameter, high velocity, pointed bullet, more like a
small rifle cartridge. It has better penetration of body armor than
typical pistol bullets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven
--
Dennis
Natman
(Animeniac) wrote:
#
#6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
#
#I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
#What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
#JR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven
Because of its high velocity and small diameter bullet it can
penetrate protective vests.
Advocate54
"Animeniac" <otak...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:hd3qrc$l29$1...@news.albasani.net...
#
# 6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
I'm not familiar with 6.35 ammunition but 5.7 uses a .224" bullet.
Wayne
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
# JR
#
A good description is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven
To me it looks like a "223 short" round. Much like a 223 cartridge, but
shorter. A really nice gun...relatively quiet, low recoil, and flat
trajectory. Something about the ballistics gives it very good penetration.
Armor piercing rounds are available, but not to mere mortals.
My buddy let me shoot his, but not too much. About a year ago, the rounds
were about $1 each, and very hard to procure. Wouldn't be surprised if it
was about $2 per ride now.
--Wayne
Long Ranger
#
# 6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
Obviously it's not a "cop killer". After all, a cop just took several hits
from one and came out on top.
Wayne
"Long Ranger" <worp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hd49s1$dsc$1...@news.albasani.net...
#
#
# #
# # 6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
# #
# # I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
# #
# # What about it gets it called a cop killer?
# Obviously it's not a "cop killer". After all, a cop just took several hits
# from one and came out on top.
#
Heh heh...the Brady Bunch is going to HATE your logic.
--Wayne
clarkm...@gmail.com
# This is FN's answer to body armor. �The cartridge is basically a 10mm
#
# Stan
The 10mm case has a .425" diameter base.
The 10mm is necked down to 9mm in the 9x25mm.
The 10mm is necked down to .224 in the .224 Boz.
But the base of the 5.7x28mm cartridge I measure at 0.312" in
diameter.
That is smaller than a 10mm, 32acp, or a 30 carbine case, but bigger
than a 22 Hornet or a 25acp case.
For 135 years, we have mostly designed new cartridges from existing
cartridges, using the same case head, but the 5.7x28mm seems to be one
of those rare originals.
Tony W
# The 10mm case has a .425" diameter base.
# The 10mm is necked down to 9mm in the 9x25mm.
# The 10mm is necked down to .224 in the .224 Boz.
#
# But the base of the 5.7x28mm cartridge I measure at 0.312" in
# diameter.
# That is smaller than a 10mm, 32acp, or a 30 carbine case, but bigger
# than a 22 Hornet or a 25acp case.
# For 135 years, we have mostly designed new cartridges from existing
# cartridges, using the same case head, but the 5.7x28mm seems to be one
# of those rare originals.
Another reason why it will slip into obscurity after a few years. The
.224 Boz sounds interesting but the .221 fireball already fills that
niche quite well.
Tony
Louis Boyd
# 6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
The 5.7x28 shoots a .224 diameter bullet, the same diameter as a .223
Win but usually the bullets are lighter. 27 and 40 grain bullets are
common in the 5.7x28. The pistol is called the FN Five-seveN.
The benefits of the FN Five-seveN are fairly light weight though large,
has a useful range over 100 yards, a flat trajectory, low recoil, and
the cartridges can fit though the handgrip of a pistol which is not
practical with a 5.56x45 NATO pistol.
The downside is the gun and ammo are expensive and it's only available
as a double action which is no target pistol. The 5.7x28 is wimpy
compared to a 5.56x45.
http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF003&gid=FNG001
This is a 5.7x28 pistol too though it weighs over 7 lbs with a full 50
round magazine (on top) . It's an AR-57 upper and AR-15 pistol lower.
The lower "magazine" is a brass catcher. It's blowback, not gas
operated. The 10x scope and laser are just possible options. A dot
scope is more practical.
http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/ubvri/Ballistics/?action=view¤t=dsc08239.jpg
Any gun which is capable of killing a law enforcement officer could be
called a "Cop Killer" and that's about any gun made. There is one
cartridge made by FN specifically to defeat body armor which has a small
hardened core high velocity bullet. It's not sold to the public.
Still, it won't kill anyone any easier than a .223 pistol with steel
core ammo. which has over twice the energy of the 5.7x28.
It's just anti-gun rabble trying to blame guns instead of criminals as
usual.
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# the only thing available
# from FN here is the practice ammo, basically lead-core FMJ. �No "cop-
# killer" there. �Ballistically, it's about like a .22 WMR from a
# rifle. �As far as I know, FN is the only producer of ammo for it, it's
# been running about 50-70 cents a round.
Midway carries the ammo for $22 for 50. Loaded with Hornady V-Max
expanding bullets.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=428067
Michael Medley
> ...
...but is classed by far with rifles firing the same caliber slug....
Michael Medley
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
Any journalist too lazy to do proper research on the subject.
Jim Yanik
news:hd6h0o$56g$1...@news.albasani.net:
#
# # What about it gets it called a cop killer?
# #
#
# Any journalist too lazy to do proper research on the subject.
the reasoning that the 5.7x28 round can penetrate a police officer's soft
body armor,the bullet being of small diameter and high velocity.
Velocity is the key parameter.
the original military 5.7 bullet also had a carbide core for armor
penetration.
Those aren't for sale in the US,can't legally be imported,I believe.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Misifus
Given that it is alleged that the Fort Hood killer used two of these to
kill and injure more than forty people, I suspect interest in the weapon
will be revived. Twenty round magazines and the rumor of body armor
penetration will help, too.
-Raf
Jim Yanik
#
# Given that it is alleged that the Fort Hood killer used two of these to
# kill and injure more than forty people, I suspect interest in the weapon
# will be revived. Twenty round magazines and the rumor of body armor
# penetration will help, too.
#
# -Raf
I've read he had ONE FN5.7 and one .357Mag revolver.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
DockScience
#
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
#
# What about it gets it called a cop killer?
#
# JR
Other than the propaganda value to the anti's,
I believe the deal is the ammo....
SS192 armor piercing ammo is available to LEO only that makes this the
smallest gun able to penetrate class 2a body armor.
RBnDFW
Made me think about getting one, but the pistols seem to have gone from
$850 to over $1000 in the last year.
Misifus
# Misifus <rafse...@att.net> wrote in news:hd7mp0$183$1...@news.albasani.net:
#
# #
# # will be revived. Twenty round magazines and the rumor of body armor
# # penetration will help, too.
# #
# # -Raf
#
# I've read he had ONE FN5.7 and one .357Mag revolver.
#
What I read was two FiveseveNs and pockets full of magazines. I expect
it'll be a while before all the facts are straight.
I see the Army is already scrambling to protect their precious
diversity, lest someone malign the Moslems. That's a lot more important
than protecting US soldiers against Islamic fanatics.
-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com
RBnDFW
# On Nov 7, 10:13 am, sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
# # the only thing available
# # from FN here is the practice ammo, basically lead-core FMJ. No "cop-
# # killer" there. Ballistically, it's about like a .22 WMR from a
# # rifle. As far as I know, FN is the only producer of ammo for it, it's
# # been running about 50-70 cents a round.
#
# Midway carries the ammo for $22 for 50. Loaded with Hornady V-Max
# expanding bullets.
# http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=428067
Cheaper than .380!
Louis Boyd
# Misifus <rafse...@att.net> wrote in news:hd7mp0$183$1...@news.albasani.net:
#
# #
# # will be revived. Twenty round magazines and the rumor of body armor
# # penetration will help, too.
# #
# # -Raf
#
# I've read he had ONE FN5.7 and one .357Mag revolver.
#
The main thing the shooter had in has favor wasn't the FN Five-seveN.
It was the mostly unarmed audience. On most military bases only MPs can
carry. After all, it is a "Federal Government Facility" not unlike a
Post Office. It's another classic example of a "Gun Free" zone. That
means only those with criminal intent will be armed.
zxcvbob
# "Animeniac" <otak...@webtv.net> wrote in message
# news:hd3qrc$l29$1...@news.albasani.net...
# #
# # 6.35 is .25 cal. A 5.7 is smaller yet.
# #
# # I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
# #
# # What about it gets it called a cop killer?
# #
#
# Other than the propaganda value to the anti's,
# I believe the deal is the ammo....
# SS192 armor piercing ammo is available to LEO only that makes this the
# smallest gun able to penetrate class 2a body armor.
#
I thought 7.62 Tokarev with cheap FMJ ammo would defeat Level 2 body
armor (that's tougher than 2A)
Bob
Phil Burton
ammo pay thousands for one of these?
Louis Boyd
# Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour piercing
# ammo pay thousands for one of these?
To protect one's self and family.
To stop a criminal or dangerous animal.
To carry in combat as a backup while protecting one's country.
There are many reasons why people choose to own and use various
firearms. Even just as collectors items.
Any gun can be used for good or evil or just to be prepared.
It's not the gun or bullet design which determines morality, only how a
person chooses to use it.
The FN Five-seveN doesn't do anything that some other pistols can't do.
It just gives one set of trade offs of size, weight, number of shots,
energy, range, penetration, and accuracy in one package. You can get
more or less of any of those qualities in other handguns, maybe just not
all at once.
cavalier
#
# I see the Army is already scrambling to protect their precious
# diversity, lest someone malign the Moslems. �That's a lot more important
# than protecting US soldiers against Islamic fanatics.
#
# � � � � -Raf
When a Muslim kills Americans, people in this country rage against
Muslims. Then they attack Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and anyone
that looks South-Asian.
When a Christian kills Americans it's business as usual. Or, if they
kill an abortion doctor, are treated like a hero.
pyotr filipivich
Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:52:20 +0000 (UTC) did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.guns the following:
#Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour
#piercing ammo pay thousands for one of these?
Because he can. Because it looks cool. Because Mikey likes it.
Because he paid off the boat. He already has a holster for it. IT
was this or invest in the stock market. Because none of the other
guys have one. Because all the other guys have one. He got a bigger
than expected tax refund, bonus, stimulus check. He sold the house,
car, wife, kids. He considers it an essential element for expressing
his cultural heritage. Because he's not Czech, He already has one
in .270. Because it is Friday. Because it is Monday.
Because it gets Luddite lefty's panties in a twist.
tschus
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
Any entity big enough to meet your needs,
is big enough to decide what those needs should be.
Mark Crispin
# Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour piercing
# ammo pay thousands for one of these?
Why would someone other than a professional race car driver pay tens of
thousands for a Porsche that is capable of twice the highest speed limit?
Why would someone other than a scientist whose experiments need metals and
stones with those precise chemical properties pay thousands for jewelry?
Why would someone other than a person with extreme visual impairment pay
thousands for a big screen TV?
The "need" argument is one of the worst anti-gun arguments. Since when is
"need" an valid reason to deny rights?
Almost every personal possession you own is arguably something that you do
not "need" and is potentially dangerous if misused.
The US Secret Service and some police departments use the FN 5.7. This
fact is quite enough to create collector interest in the firearm and its
caliber. There is also considerable collector interest in the unusual or
bizarre; a fact explicitly recognized in US law. It is also of interest
to police officers who frequently wish to buy a personal sidearm with the
same caliber as their personal sidearm. Last but not least, competitive
shooters may be interested in it if their fellow club members/competitors
are police officers who use that firearm and its caliber.
All of these are very compelling reasons for some people to desire and buy
the FN 5.7. Other people consider the FN 5.7 to be an expensive toy whose
primary ammunition is not available in the civilian market, and thus do
not want to buy it.
There is no evidence that the Ft. Hood shooter's murderous rampage was in
any way augmented by his use of an FN 5.7. I can think of numerous other
handguns, more generally available and at much lower prices, which would
have better served the purpose of massacring a large number of unarmed and
unarmored individuals.
I can think of only three reasons why he would have chosen an FN 5.7:
[1] Availability; the FN 5.7 was purchased for one of the other legitimate
purposes above, and he saw no reason to purchase another handgun just for
the rampage.
[2] Ignorance. He thought that the FN 5.7 would augment his rampage, but
actually it didn't.
[3] Making a gigantic F**K YOU to the USA and to US gun owners by choosing
a weapon that had cosmetic symbolism that would inflame anti-gun radicals.
I think that reason [3] is the most likely.
-- Mark --
http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
Bob Holtzman
# On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Phil Burton posted:
# # Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour piercing
# # ammo pay thousands for one of these?
#
# Why would someone other than a professional race car driver pay tens of
# thousands for a Porsche that is capable of twice the highest speed limit?
#
# Why would someone other than a scientist whose experiments need metals and
# stones with those precise chemical properties pay thousands for jewelry?
#
# Why would someone other than a person with extreme visual impairment pay
# thousands for a big screen TV?
#
# The "need" argument is one of the worst anti-gun arguments. Since when is
# "need" an valid reason to deny rights?
#
# Almost every personal possession you own is arguably something that you do
# not "need" and is potentially dangerous if misused.
The only things you *need* are air, food,water, and shelter. Everything
else is a convenience/luxury.
.............snip.............
# I can think of only three reasons why he would have chosen an FN 5.7:
#
# [1] Availability; the FN 5.7 was purchased for one of the other legitimate
# purposes above, and he saw no reason to purchase another handgun just for
# the rampage.
#
# [2] Ignorance. He thought that the FN 5.7 would augment his rampage, but
# actually it didn't.
#
# [3] Making a gigantic F**K YOU to the USA and to US gun owners by choosing
# a weapon that had cosmetic symbolism that would inflame anti-gun radicals.
#
# I think that reason [3] is the most likely.
I doubt if gun owners and/or the 2nd amendment even crossed his mind. As
far as the finger to the US, that's probably more than possible.
--
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer"
Jim Yanik
How would anyone GET "access to armor-piercing ammo" for this gun?
ISTR that AP ammo is prohibited from importation,and I doubt US ammo makers
would make AP ammo for this gun,as there's no market for it.
Do any US LE agencies use this weapon or the FN-P90?
BTW,Wikipedia has a fine page on the 5.7x28 round.
It seems the "sporting ammo" for this cartridge are all loaded to lower
velocities than the mil-spec stuff.(and none of the sporting ammo is AP)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Jim Yanik
The 5.7 is a low-recoil round,perhaps that is another reason he chose it.
it also can use a 30 rnd magazine. (20rd plus extension??)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven
anyone know if Hasan actually used AP ammo(SS190)?
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Michael Medley
# Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour piercing
# ammo pay thousands for one of these?
So they can shoot the same ammo as their FN P-90. It's a niche gun.
DockScience
"zxcvbob" <zxc...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:hdagis$8b4$1...@news.albasani.net...
# # Other than the propaganda value to the anti's,
# # I believe the deal is the ammo....
# # SS192 armor piercing ammo is available to LEO only that makes this the
# # smallest gun able to penetrate class 2a body armor.
# #
#
#
# I thought 7.62 Tokarev with cheap FMJ ammo would defeat Level 2 body
# armor (that's tougher than 2A)
#
# Bob
Missed a word.... SMALLEST
DockScience
"Phil Burton" <pbu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:hdbk5k$s9c$1...@news.albasani.net...
# Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour piercing
# ammo pay thousands for one of these?
More dollars than sense?
Phil Burton
poor substitute for a Kimber or Glock large caliber for stopping power.
Does the US military use the FN and if so, could a officer obtain AP
ammo somehow?
edi...@netpath.net
# I have never heard of this gun or its caliber.
It's a VERY oversold caliber - about .22 Magnum or .22 Hornet
ballistically. Was dreamed up for a handgun cartridge that could
(with special ammo) penetrate body armor.
TimR
Hornet.
But I just looked it up, and it really matches .22 WMR more closely.
Compare that to .223. We just had a long thread where .223 was called
a POS. Yet the 5.7 has roughly 2/3 the velocity and mass, and about
1/4 the energy of the .223. Yet it seemed to perform on this
occasion.
Tony W
# It's a VERY oversold caliber - about .22 Magnum or .22 Hornet
# ballistically. Was dreamed up for a handgun cartridge that could
# (with special ammo) penetrate body armor.
With the right rifle, I think it would be a good replacement for the
Hornet... But then again we have the .221 fireball...
Tony
Wayne
"Tony W" <techn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hdi91a$lit$1...@news.albasani.net...
# edi...@netpath.net wrote:
# # It's a VERY oversold caliber - about .22 Magnum or .22 Hornet
# # ballistically. Was dreamed up for a handgun cartridge that could
# # (with special ammo) penetrate body armor.
#
# With the right rifle, I think it would be a good replacement for the
# Hornet... But then again we have the .221 fireball...
#
# Tony
#
I got to shoot about 25 rounds through one yesterday. Superb balance, good
ergonomics, low perceived recoil, smooth relatively light trigger, good
magazine loading and ejection from the gun, and a very accurate flat
trajectory.
This is a great gun that I would buy, if I had $ for the gun and ammo!
--Wayne
RBnDFW
I suspect sales will increase for this handgun after all the publicity.
I like the concept, but I think it looks cheap. too much plastic, and it
loks like it.
Animeniac
I looked up the P90 in Wiki. That is quite the submachine gun. 50
round magazine in that compact setup.
I'd buy the civilian version if I could afford it. To do what with?
Just to own and have people ask why.
There is an anime character that carries one.
http://blog.bloople.net/assets/1211031567_50254.jpg
JR
Anime arimasu ka? (Got Anime?)
Bob Holtzman
# Why would someone other than a criminal with access to armour piercing
# ammo pay thousands for one of these?
Because he wants to. Good enough for you?
--
Bob Holtzman
GPG key ID = 8D549279
If you think you're getting free lunch
check the price of the beer.
cco...@gmail.com
OK...I'll bite..."Because we want one". Whether you see a need for it or not
there are apparently enough people out there who want one that they are being
manufactured and sold pretty much as fast as time allows. JMHO
David
Gunner Asch
# Don't know of anyone being shot with one or how the civilian-
#legal round would do for defense, cited ballistics aren't encouraging
#for other than small game with the practice FMJ, they don't have body
#armor.
#
#Stan
Well..out of 43 people shot with it...only 13 died..so it cant be really
effective
Gunner
------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
Win an M1 Garand from Fulton Armory while helping the Cause!
Details of the MPFO rifle raffle are at http://myguns.org/
------------------------------------------------------------
TimR
> ...
I submit that there is not enough information to draw that conclusion.
We don't have details on the shootings. How many were multiple round
hits, how many were torso hits, etc.
Clearly it was a chaotic situation, with moving targets - not like a
hunting or sniper situation where the shooter would carefully place
his rounds.
The fact that he HIT 43 people needs to be considered, too. Perhaps
the light caliber contributed to that. Most of them were young males
in the peak of physical condition, you would want to allow for that in
figuring effectiveness. And medical care was immediate.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
#On Nov 27, 7:56�am, Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
# > ...
#
#I submit that there is not enough information to draw that conclusion.
#
#We don't have details on the shootings. How many were multiple round
#hits, how many were torso hits, etc.
We do have details..if you simply google them. The dead were victim of
multipe shots and head shots..again multiple. The wounded were also
often multiple hit victims. Some were hit with "pass throughs" as well
http://abesauer.com/2009/11/09/rare-first-person-tale-from-fort-hood-shooting/
A guy with a 9mm or a 45, would have left far fewer alive.
Of course..under normal circumstances..only 20% of gunshot victims die.
#
#Clearly it was a chaotic situation, with moving targets - not like a
#hunting or sniper situation where the shooter would carefully place
#his rounds.
#
#The fact that he HIT 43 people needs to be considered, too. Perhaps
#the light caliber contributed to that. Most of them were young males
#in the peak of physical condition, you would want to allow for that in
#figuring effectiveness. And medical care was immediate.
Indeed. Though any competent shooter with a pocket full of magazines
would have done as well, or even "better"..cringe.
If the cartridge was a real manstopper..it wouldnt be a freak in the
industry
Shrug
Gunner
TimR
# On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:17:37 +0000 (UTC), TimR <timothy...@aol.com>
# wrote:
# We do have details..if you simply google them. The dead were victim of
# multipe shots and head shots..again multiple. �The wounded were also
# often multiple hit victims. Some were hit with "pass throughs" as well
Thanks for the links, there was information I hadn't seen. However I
did follow all the links on your pages and didn't find quite what you
are talking about. I'd be interested, if you can post better links.
I did google without success.
# A guy with a 9mm or a 45, would have left far fewer alive.
#
Perhaps. Nothing manportable is as lethal as the movies would have us
believe, particularly a pistol.
# Of course..under normal circumstances..only 20% of gunshot victims die.
#
Yes. And in this case, where all the victims were fit young soldiers,
and where all the people nearby had combat lifesaver training and
responded immediately, 30% died.
#
# If the cartridge was a real manstopper..it wouldnt be a freak in the
# industry
#
# Shrug
Nobody would pick a .22 mag as a combat round, agreed. Still, did it
limit him much? It did let him carry lots of ammo and shoot
accurately under pressure. Multiple hits make a difference too. 5.7
is not that much smaller than #4 buck, at higher velocity and deeper
penetration. I'm impressed with the apparent reliability. The last .
22 mag pistol I owned had trouble getting through one magazine without
a stoppage. Of course, I didn't pay $1200 for it, either.