Re: LOTR LE: Interesting email from Jack
PinTrain
w0w. That does suck.
Taylor-VA
> w0w. That does suck.
Well Mr. Smelter, I guess your order has been canceled; and your
profile.
Very convenient.
bwah, bwah, bwah, bwah
badbilly27
> Anyone else think this stinks????
>
> Greetings:
>
> Next week we expect Stern to start shipping our LOTR LE games.
>
> Due to a price increase way beyond our control we need to get $5399.00
> for each game plus shipping.
>
> I cannot absorb the increase and I understand that this has been a
> long time in the order-build process. We have already advanced money
> to Stern so they had money to build these games. If you are still in
> and want the game....e mail me back and you will get your game after
> payment of your balance in full.
>
> If you want out, we will refund your money. If you post this on RGP
> your order will be cancelled and your money will be refunded as this
> is between us and not the whole world.
>
> Either way, this has been too long, too much time and effort for
> absolutely no money to our company. This really turned into a big
> favor that I'm happy to do to bring the game to our customers. Our
> competitors made plenty of money off of our backs on this title. I
> hope you enjoy the game if you decide to stay in, but this is not
> something that I will do again with Stern.
>
> I need to know by this Sunday Night at 8 PM Eastern Time either way.
> please e mail me at j...@pinballsales.com or pinballsa...@aol.com. If
> you are in, let me know how you will pay the $400 difference. If you
> are out, Katie will contact you about your refund.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jack Guarnieri
>
> www.Pinballsales.com.
Well, I guess you don't want your LE LOTR as you posted. LOL. I
respect that Jack is trying to be as honest with his customers and
communicate directly - "sorry but I'll let you out of the deal as I
know it stinks the price went up." Not sure he should get slammed for
that. It's business - what else do you want him to do eat the increase
in costs? He's offering to refund your money. It stinks - but seems
like he's being straight up.
Now on the "if you post this to the newsgroup" that is just BS.
Everyone is so worried about their rep - so lets censor bad news and
just make sure everyone only posts "I'm a terrific reseller". BS. If
you have to blackmail someone not to post on newsgroup - shame on
you. I give you a thumbs up for being honest in communication to your
customers and a thumbs down for being an ass on the newsgroup
attempted cover-up.
Stu
here –
it was anyway....damn, the integrity, and here I thought pinheads had
some....
Stu
Lloyd Olson
lot of money tied up in it. Stern ups the price. Jack can't absorb the
increase. Yet offers a full refund. Even though he was left hanging and
other companies got a free ride.
Are you saying Stern stinks ? LTG :)
"J Smelter" <smel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5da8e586-5dee-407f...@u8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Anyone else think this stinks????
>
> Greetings:
>
> Next week we expect Stern to start shipping our LOTR LE games.
>
> Due to a price increase way beyond our control we need to get $5399.00
> for each game plus shipping.
>
> I cannot absorb the increase and I understand that this has been a
> long time in the order-build process. We have already advanced money
> to Stern so they had money to build these games. If you are still in
> and want the game....e mail me back and you will get your game after
> payment of your balance in full.
>
> If you want out, we will refund your money. If you post this on RGP
> your order will be cancelled and your money will be refunded as this
> is between us and not the whole world.
>
> Either way, this has been too long, too much time and effort for
> absolutely no money to our company. This really turned into a big
> favor that I'm happy to do to bring the game to our customers. Our
> competitors made plenty of money off of our backs on this title. I
> hope you enjoy the game if you decide to stay in, but this is not
> something that I will do again with Stern.
>
> I need to know by this Sunday Night at 8 PM Eastern Time either way.
> please e mail me at ja...@pinballsales.com or pinbal...@aol.com. If
Jason Cross
Well it should be posted here. Sounds like shitty customer service
with an attitude I might add. I would tell them to ram it up their
ass as far as it would go. Hell you would have pretty much 6K in it
after shipping. Having 6K in a Stern makes me cringe just thinking
about it.
DugFreez
seems kinda strange that he is being a saint and doing everyone a big
favor...yet he still wants to keep this news quiet. It also seems
strange threatening people that he will cancel their orders if they
post about it. I would think since a deposit was taken, he would be
bound to honor the price...or at least have to deliver the pin if the
buyer paid the "New LE" asking price.
If the shoe was on the other foot and the buyer said "Hey Jack, I've
come on to hard times and I don't think I can pay the entire $5,000
that was agreed. You know, I was doing you a big favor by buying this
pin from you...so just ship it to me for $ 4,600. By the way...don't
tell anyone about this." I don't think that would work for the seller.
If the price HAS to come up, I would think you would just say the
price has risen. If you want it, you can get it, if not, your deposit
will be refunded. It doesn't seem right to ask a higher price that was
agreed and then act like you are doing a favor to everyone for taking
$400 from them. Does everyone thing all of the dealers will be asking
the extra $400? It seems that the pre-orders sold on e-bay would be
locked in at the original price.
I also don't believe that he HAS to raise the price. I find it hard
to believe he isn't just padding his profit margin here. If everyone
canceled their orders...I'm sure the price would go back to the
original $5000 pretty quickly.
frenchy
> know it stinks the price went up." Not sure he should get slammed for
> that.>>
I wasn't sure that the post WAS slamming him for that. There's just a
post of Jack saying the price will go up and the comment that it
stinks. For all I know he is just saying the need for the price
increase is bad news... or perhaps he's even mad at Stern for raising
prices. Need clarification please...
PinballSales Jack
Everybody, just chill.......
This is my very last episode with doing anything special with Stern.
Have a nice day,
Jack
Lloyd Olson
crap that gets piled on that just ain't true. Jack isn't padding anything.
He's doing his best to not hurt Stern here, for a lot of reasons, including
their Christmas sales. Even if it makes him look bad. Lloyd
"DugFreez" <dugf...@live.com> wrote in message
news:9c357bcd-7890-4625...@19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
Stu
DugFreez
> What stinks ? Jack was the driving force to get them done. Jack has had a
> lot of money tied up in it. Stern ups the price. Jack can't absorb the
> increase. Yet offers a full refund. Even though he was left hanging and
> other companies got a free ride.
>
> Are you saying Stern stinks ? LTG :)
>
I didn't understand the part about "Our competitors made plenty of
money off of our backs on this title.". What's that all about? What
was the free ride the others got? Did Stern just up the price on Jack
and let the other slide with the original price?
If so...Jack should put a boot in Stern's behind.
Lloyd Olson
idea and "working" with Gary Stern to get them done. Other companies didn't.
And now getting crap here, others selling them for way more than Pinball
Sales are missing out on the crap.
Jack is too nice a man, and wouldn't give Stern the boot, even if they
deserve it.
That clear it up for you ?
Not to mention this was an email, and emails shouldn't be posted unless both
parties agree. That used to be a big internet no no. Lloyd
"DugFreez" <dugf...@live.com> wrote in message
news:952d2792-8ce8-42e1...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
PinballSales Jack
> Jack has money in the project. Other comapnies selling them didn't. Jack's
> idea and "working" with Gary Stern to get them done. Other companies didn't.
> And now getting crap here, others selling them for way more than Pinball
> Sales are missing out on the crap.
>
> Jack is too nice a man, and wouldn't give Stern the boot, even if they
> deserve it.
>
> That clear it up for you ?
>
> Not to mention this was an email, and emails shouldn't be posted unless both
> parties agree. That used to be a big internet no no. Lloyd
>
>
> news:952d2792-8ce8-42e1...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 5, 4:37 pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
>
> � I didn't understand the part about "Our competitors made plenty of
> money off of our backs on this title.". What's that all about? What
> was the free ride the others got? Did Stern just up the price on Jack
> and let the other slide with the original price?
>
> � If so...Jack should put a boot in Stern's behind.
The problem was on our end in understanding the pricing and
availability and NOT on Stern's part. I should have looked closer and
not assumed, my mistake.
JonC
So, your cost per machine is the same and you were trying to pad your
profit?
Jon
Rich R
> The problem was on our end in understanding the pricing and
> availability and NOT on Stern's part. I should have looked closer and
>
Perfect example of karma
Rich
Taylor-VA
Prices went up on Stern's end and PBS had obviously stated a price
that changed with the project.
Seems they are going to honor that original price quote and I think
they should be commended for that.
I don't think PBS would have sent out an email asking for more $$
unless they
absolutely had to. I am sure that this is not something they wanted
to do.
Posting an email anonymously is pretty weak imho.
If so pissed you should just step up without a pseudonym. I guess that
means
you were willing to step up and pay the extra cash.
DugFreez
> This is probably why Jack didn't want anything posted here. Because of the
> crap that gets piled on that just ain't true. Jack isn't padding anything.
>
> He's doing his best to not hurt Stern here, for a lot of reasons, including
> their Christmas sales. Even if it makes him look bad. Lloyd
>
It sounds like the person that posted this just saved everyone that
had pre-orders from Jack $400 since Jack now says he sticking with the
original price. That leads me to think more than before that he was
just trying to pad his profit margin. Evidently he didn't HAVE to
increase the price after all.
I'm not saying I don't understand the increase. He is trying to make
a living and it sounds like someone at Stern messed up the figures.
What would have rubbed me the wrong way (if I had a pre-order) was him
trying to make it sound like he was doing you a favor for selling it
to you. He is making money and I'm sure he is not taking a personal
hit of $400 each machine for this screw up. If he is honoring the
original price now...then he didn't NEED to ask for the $400 extra. As
another poster said..it would have come off better if he would have
said Stern miscalculated the figures. I'm sorry but the price is
raised to $5400. I will honor all pre orders and I will refund any
deposits if anyone wants to cancel.
The don't post this or "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" is what the real BS is
about. It's completely understandable if Jack wouldn't want to do
anymore special dealing with Stern if they are burning him on this. It
might not be a bad thing for Stern to step up and apologize for this
situation...but then again the distributor is the middle man and is
getting paid to be the buffer in this type of situation.
PinballSales Jack
> On Dec 5, 4:47�pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
>
> > This is probably why Jack didn't want anything posted here. Because of the
> > crap that gets piled on that just ain't true. Jack isn't padding anything.
>
> > He's doing his best to not hurt Stern here, for a lot of reasons, including
> > their Christmas sales. Even if it makes him look bad. �Lloyd
>
I'll probably just buy what I need from Costco in the future - LOL
metallik
> > > their Christmas sales. Even if it makes him look bad. Lloyd
>
> I'll probably just buy what I need from Costco in the future - LOL
Why all the secrecy.. why can't someone just explain why it now costs
$5400/unit to make this machine?
Most of the costs should have been (and still should be) pretty fixed
and predictable - wiring, playfield, cabinet, plastics, mechanical
assemblies. Seems that the the wildcards here would be:
- Screened backglasses - did someone accidentally drop a crate of
these recently (*Smash*), resulting in the overrun? :)
- Playfield coatings - is Stern following Gene's example and re-
clearcoating playfields he does not deem acceptable for the project?
- Licensing - was the decimal point one position off when negotiating
per-unit fees with New Line?
- Signatures - is Gary now pulling a Pete Rose and charging for each
John Hancock? :)
- Profit - someone feels the NEED for G-R-E-E-E-E-D (apologies to Raul
Julia)...? :)
Remember, we're already saving money on R&D, not to mention the $20/
game or so saved from lack of Playalong's toys. C'mon, what's up..
spill it... enquiring minds want to know! This could be bigger than
the Tiger Woods scandal! :D
PapaJohn
Just because Stern is the only company making pinballs should it and
its machines be held up as great machines-you need to buy them because
they are the only manufactures left? I say NO to both questions.
There are plenty of older machines that in my opinion are far more
'classy' and fun to buy, play and work on.......45 years worth of
them. If Stern needs a certain amount of money to produce machines
then buyers must accept that as a business that needs to show a profit
but I don't believe I would spend the money to buy their product when
so many other great machines are available. Besides Retro Pinball is
on the move now. John
bucketman
mine after the first increase and after learning the machines were
going to have a signature on them. I don't care who you are, I don't
want your signature on any of my stuff. Nobody is that "special".
Also to the people here saying this should not have been posted, it
was a private email blah blah blah. Gimme a break. IT'S THE INTERNET.
There are no rules and your an idiot if you think something can be
private on the internet.
my_spacies
Thanks for standing by you price Jack
mr tobias
> Anyone else think this stinks????
>
> Greetings:
>
> Next week we expect Stern to start shipping our LOTR LE games.
>
> Due to a price increase way beyond our control we need to get $5399.00
> for each game plus shipping.
>
> I cannot absorb the increase and I understand that this has been a
> long time in the order-build process. We have already advanced money
> to Stern so they had money to build these games. If you are still in
> and want the game....e mail me back and you will get your game after
> payment of your balance in full.
>
> your order will be cancelled and your money will be refunded as this
> is between us and not the whole world.
>
> absolutely no money to our company. This really turned into a big
> favor that I'm happy to do to bring the game to our customers. Our
> competitors made plenty of money off of our backs on this title. I
> hope you enjoy the game if you decide to stay in, but this is not
> something that I will do again with Stern.
>
> I need to know by this Sunday Night at 8 PM Eastern Time either way.
> you are in, let me know how you will pay the $400 difference. If you
> are out, Katie will contact you about your refund.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jack Guarnieri
>
> www.Pinballsales.com.
It seems this project was more trouble than it was worth for Pinball
Sales, and $5399 is a lot of money. Pity it has panned out like this
as it leaves a nasty taste.
flippinpins
Does this mean Stern is going to raise the price on all machines in
the future?
mr tobias
If yet another price hike is the effect the new partnership is going
to have then it could be finished before it starts, unless of course
the product improves to the extent that buyers get more for their
bucks.
mallci...@sbcglobal.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hows the MM Comming along from Wayne??? LOL
alienpoker
thread ties up with what Jack said on another "If Stern made an
LOTR..would you buy one" thread.
I quote:
"By the way....DO NOT pay more than $5000.00 for the game or for
Pirates or any other Stern NIB game. Costco has them almost cheaper
than I can buy them from direct from Stern.
$5,000 for a LOTR LE gives enough profit for anyone to make on this,
and ask for a 3 year extended warranty too.
If you boycott they will lower their prices, especially after
Christmas when they will all be cash choked. "
So if $5K is "enough profit for anyone" according to Jack, then why
did he turn around and ask for the extra $400 ? What changed?
To my mind, that question remains unanswered.
Taylor-VA
Stern had to have increased the cost to distributors.
Or at least that would seem the most probable reason imho.
jar155
> Stern had to have increased the cost to distributors.
> Or at least that would seem the most probable reason imho.
People piling on Jack are just wrong. He probably asked for this not
to be posted here as to not further damage his relationship with
Stern. To me that shows that Jack is a classy guy as he's giving
everybody the option to back out of their sale with a full refund, but
he's not about to throw Stern under the bus directly.
I had one of these preordered and backed out and Jack refunded me
within minutes of asking to cancel the order. Anybody implying that
he's doing anything shady needs to remember who they're talking about
here.
freeman
e-mail sent.
kevinb
each other. I had had hopes that the news of an outside investor and
some elements of marketing were forging the way for a brighter
future. This is hopefully just a misunderstanding and not another
dagger.
KRB
(LOTR, TSPP, and soon SM and CV)
chuck
wow, that's all I've got to say.
pincorrect
> Why all the secrecy.. why can't someone just explain why it now costs
> $5400/unit to make this machine?
>
> Most of the costs should have been (and still should be) pretty fixed
> and predictable
I'm guessing Gary's health insurance premiums went up.
KY-pin
him pretty well, and has always been straight up person. whatever the
reason for the increase, or/and trying to keep it hush hush, i would
trust he had good reason, and not just to pad his pocket.
i wonder if stern with the new investors, are changing the way they
market pinball. before they only sold to amusement industry and
totally neglected home buyers.
maybe now stern will market pinball as a high end amusement device to
home buyers (people buy $4000 to $5000 pool tables everyday) and do
away with distributors and just sell through costco etc.
just a thought.
Lloyd Olson
once. Not every model, every year. And if for home buyers, the very limited
numbers will be well above $4000 to $5000. Forget costco, in over 2 1/2
years they've sold 14 ? , and they aren't on their website yet again.
"KY-pin" <mega...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ccb9903-f053-4df9...@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Detroitboy
is it not? Therefore, I would have expected some kind of changes to
make the company profitable.
Second...this price increase sucks...but thats the way it is.
Third...this could have some hilarious consequences. IF Wayne ever
produces MM and holds true to his contracts for the price of $5000
games for the pre-order customers he could end up being the good guy
in the whole scenario!
Holy Schnikes Batman!!!! Who woulda thunk it?????
Some people out here could end up eating turd sandwiches....OMG!!!!!
metallik
> > game or so saved from lack of Playalong's toys. C'mon, what's up..
> > spill it... enquiring minds want to know! This could be bigger than
> > the Tiger Woods scandal! :D
>
> wow, that's all I've got to say.
I'm joking for the most part, although I am curious why so much to
make the games... they really shouldn't cost that much to build. I
didn't buy one though so won't comment anymore.
DugFreez
> $5400/unit to make this machine?
>
> Most of the costs should have been (and still should be) pretty fixed
> and predictable - wiring, playfield, cabinet, plastics, mechanical
> assemblies. Seems that the the wildcards here would be:
>
> - Screened backglasses - did someone accidentally drop a crate of
> these recently (*Smash*), resulting in the overrun? :)
>
> - Playfield coatings - is Stern following Gene's example and re-
> clearcoating playfields he does not deem acceptable for the project?
>
> - Licensing - was the decimal point one position off when negotiating
> per-unit fees with New Line?
>
> - Signatures - is Gary now pulling a Pete Rose and charging for each
> John Hancock? :)
>
> - Profit - someone feels the NEED for G-R-E-E-E-E-D (apologies to Raul
> Julia)...? :)
>
> Remember, we're already saving money on R&D, not to mention the $20/
> game or so saved from lack of Playalong's toys. C'mon, what's up..
> spill it... enquiring minds want to know! This could be bigger than
> the Tiger Woods scandal! :D
^These are the kind of questions I'm curious about.^
In the original e-mail it says "Due to a price increase way beyond
our control" yet Jack later says "The problem was on our end in
understanding the pricing and availability and NOT on Stern's part. I
should have looked closer and not assumed, my mistake." That was big
of Jack to admit it was their mistake (along with honoring the
original price)...but why the original "beyond our control" excuse? If
it was your mistake...it wasn't beyond your control.
The original e-mail also said "I cannot absorb the increase" yet now
he CAN absorb the increase. Did he recrunch the numbers and see it was
now possible?
The original e-mail also said "Either way, this has been too long,
too much time and effort for absolutely no money to our company." WOW!
Absolutely no money to our company!!!??? Not a dime? NO
PROFIT!? ...and I'm assuming that was taking the $400 increase into
the equation since that is what the e-mail was about. So that means he
is actually going to LOSE $400 on each machine sold now since he is
honoring the original price? That just doesn't sound believable to me.
Jack might be super all-right great guy in a lot of peoples books.
He sure has a lot of defenders here and I'm sure he's made a lot of
great sales to people. I still can't understand that people would
believe that he is giving these games away to people out of the
kindness of his heart. Great guy or not...I'm guessing he was just
wanting more since he saw others were getting higher prices. I'm sure
it was a lot of work and planning for him to get this LOTR ball
rolling, and after all of his work it probably hurts a little to see
other dealers selling these on ebay for $5600. Someone even mention
that he said on another thread not to pay over $5000 for one of these
from another seller. My guess is that it just didn't seem right for
other sellers to be getting bigger pieces of the pie that he was when
he was the one doing the planning. I don't consider what the other
sellers are doing as wrong. If they can find a buyer at the price they
are asking...more power to them. Maybe Jack should have worked out an
exclusive agreement with Stern if that would have been possible.
A person needs to make a living, and if the original price did NEED
to be increased because of things beyond his control that's
unfortunate but understandable. He was willing to refund anyone's
deposit that was wanting to duck out. He also stepped up and agreed to
settle for the original price...which was even better.
The main questions are: What were these increases?...Were there
really any increases?....Why was the increase retracted?.....Why was
top secret priority a must?....Why were per-order customers threatened
to get there orders pulled if they talked?....Does anyone actually
believe he is making $0 from selling all of these machines?
badbilly27
crucify Stern or Jack for trying accomplishing that goal. Second, when
a salesman tells you he's doing something special just for you put
your hand on your wallet. It's not for me to question Jack's love of
the hobby - I'm certain he does - but read the first and second rule
again. Again, neither Stern or Jack are monsters - look in the
mirror. Mods for $150 (which I like)??? Doing something special for
me - read the first two rules. Everyone is trying to make a buck AND
support the hobby.
With that out to the way, no one knows the deal Jack struck with
Stern. Maybe it played out - Jack came up with idea for LE, Jack
validated demand with customers, offered to prove to Stern money
making opportunity by getting deposits and possibly fronted some
orders for inventory, when Stern agreed Jack was hoping exclusive -
Stern came back later and said all distributors, Jack stuck fronting
order and hours invested to negotiate to get the deal done but now no
special treatment he was hoping to distinguish his company from others
for the effort, competition sets price, Jack can't make as much as he
wanted per time he put in, hoping to up the price to recoup his man
hours invested to front the deal tries to quietly pass on to his
"loyal customers cause he did them a favor for the hobby", once
confronted falls back to same margin as competitors realizing cat is
out of the bag and other distributors will pick up the deserters. If
that scenario played out - yeah Jack feels he got screwed not having
any preferential treatment on the deal he championed with Stern and
while he's still getting a margin, not as much as he was hoping for
all the hours/time put in to cut the deal. New investors in Stern
likely had nothing to do with this specific deal.
Does this stink for Jack? Yes. Should he have gotten some special
treatment - probably. Should he have included in his note threatening
customers not to post on newsgroup - doh! that's gonna leave a mark
and you did it to yourself. It's cool Jack supports the hobby and
comes on here to share his .02 - but please keep in mind business rule
#1 and #2. It's always about business if you own one. Not saying Jack
is a bad guy - but exclusive/LE deals are a marketing tactic to sell
product, build brand loyalty and make money. Period. Nothing wrong
with that - just don't BS and say otherwise because you
unintentionally offend those of us who swim with the sharks in
business every day.
JonC
>
> The main questions are: What were these increases?...Were there
> really any increases?....Why was the increase retracted?.....Why was
> top secret priority a must?....Why were per-order customers threatened
> to get there orders pulled if they talked?....Does anyone actually
> believe he is making $0 from selling all of these machines?
I'd like to know the answer to these questions as well. Was the price
increase just because others are selling LOTR LE for more? If it's
not Stern's fault I doubt the cost went up.
Jon
azpinlawyer
Post of the year.
MrBally
>
> Post of the year.
I'll challenge you on that. This one is pretty good:
PinballSales Jack View profile
More options Jul 1, 6:27 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: PinballSales Jack <J...@pinballsales.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:27:35 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jul 1 2009 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: IF Stern built LOTR again - would you buy one??
Hi All - I just spoke with Gary and we will have a Limited Edition
Lord of the Rings!!
The license fee is very high - production will be very low - like 300
games!
The game will have a real back glass with a gold mirror treatment
(99%
sure on that) and that will cost some bucks to make happen.
Games will have a Limited Edition Plaque and a Signed
Certificate....pricing - expect $4999.00
All my pre-orders have hung in there, we have received deposits as
recently as today!!
If you want to get onboard go to www.pinballsales.com and scrool all
the way to the bottom of the page for the $100 refundable pre-order
deposit.
Probably looking at production in 8 weeks or so - ALL GAMES from
PinballSales.com will have a special surprise included at no
additional cost, figure it's along the lines of what I did on Black
Spider-Man. Think of this game just like a Black Spider-Man as it
will
never be produced again after this and it will only appreciate. Limit
2 games per person pre-order.
Thanks, Jack
BUY...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Costco sell nothing if they can,t make aleast 20% they sure as hell
don,t need gary stern If you sent a deposit you ARE due intrest on
your money back , these guys are still making a grand on a new
pinball and they make money on the shipping and sales tax they
pocket,Everyone one should ask for their money back gary will have
to drop prices
Merry xmas from stern and lakewood nj
MrBally
> Post of the year.- Hide quoted text -
Thread of the year:
Mr. 68
I bought the game and Jack is standing by his price.
Pretty much everything is good in Kim’s world.
Kim - CARGPB #36
www.WrongCrowdProductions.com
DMD Glare Guards
DugFreez
got whacked!?! ...the plot thickens.
chuck
> Now the original post with the email is missing. Maybe Mr. Smelter
> got whacked!?! ...the plot thickens.
fuggetaboudit!
chuck
Jack admitted himself in an earlier post that there was no price
increase from stern.
JonC
What's the price increase he referenced then? Quote:
"Due to a price increase way beyond our control we need to get
$5399.00 for each game plus shipping."
Jon
JonC
So assuming Jack sold 100 games (he probably has sold more) and got an
additional $400 per game, hello $40,000 and Merry Christmas suckers.
Jon
multiham
sell! Just like Sam's and BJ's, they make their money two ways.
First, it is the membership fee. Second, it is on sheer volume of
transactions. The highest percent they make is around 15%. Just
google how they just discontinued Coke products because Coke was
offering similar deals to other non-club retailers. Hard to justify a
fee based membership model when you can get the same deals without
paying the membership fee.
pincorrect
> First of all....Stern is under new management with the "new investor"
> is it not? Therefore, I would have expected some kind of changes to
> make the company profitable.
Yea, pissing off the one remaining group that still patronizes you is
a great step towards becoming profitable.
ScottinSGFNY
I'll second that - all good here also....
erickit
All the parts are already made in China and the quality shows. I guess
the next step is to move the factory over there.
Investors don't care about American jobs, profit is the bottom line
and if they have to go where the slave labor is that is what they will
do.
Of course once the economy crashes because of lack of jobs the last
thing people are going to buy is a Chinese made pinball.
Eric
ScottinSGFNY
That video really sums up todays economy.......
erickit
>
> - Show quoted text -
The American people wanted cheap and that's what they got, cheap crap
at Wally Martinez and cheap labor on the corner.
Now we will all pay the price.
They just loaded all the tooling for Vise Grips on a boat to be made
in China, 800 more jobs gone.
Enjoy your new use once throw away Vise Grips.
:(
Eric
cody chunn
Everything is in the hands of the big cheese.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4
[Note: Following any advice given in this message
may result in property damage, minor injury, serious injury or death.
Follow advice at your own peril.]
"erickit" <erick...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:263093d6-0a11-41a2...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
cody chunn
>:0(
--
-cody
--CARGPB4
[Note: Following any advice given in this message
may result in property damage, minor injury, serious injury or death.
Follow advice at your own peril.]
"erickit" <erick...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ae489152-2094-4f6b...@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
MrBally
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have four pair of Vise Grip pliers. Fortunately, they will last me
though the end of my life. The parent company of the Vise Grip is
Newell Rubbermaid, Inc. I hope the executives who made the decision to
move the production to China burn in hell.
JonC
> On Dec 5, 3:59 pm, PinballSales Jack <J...@pinballsales.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 5, 4:54 pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
>
> > > Jack has money in the project. Other comapnies selling them didn't. Jack's
> > > idea and "working" with Gary Stern to get them done. Other companies didn't.
> > > And now getting crap here, others selling them for way more than Pinball
> > > Sales are missing out on the crap.
>
> > > Jack is too nice a man, and wouldn't give Stern the boot, even if they
> > > deserve it.
>
> > > That clear it up for you ?
>
> > > Not to mention this was an email, and emails shouldn't be posted unless both
> > > parties agree. That used to be a big internet no no. Lloyd
>
> > > "DugFreez" <dugfr...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:952d2792-8ce8-42e1...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Dec 5, 4:37 pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
>
> > > I didn't understand the part about "Our competitors made plenty of
> > > money off of our backs on this title.". What's that all about? What
> > > was the free ride the others got? Did Stern just up the price on Jack
> > > and let the other slide with the original price?
>
> > > If so...Jack should put a boot in Stern's behind.
>
> > The problem was on our end in understanding the pricing and
> > availability and NOT on Stern's part. I should have looked closer and
> > not assumed, my mistake.
>
> profit?
>
> Jon
Wow, the silence is deafening.
Jon
my_spacies
Jack has honored his price.
Thats all we need to know
Stephen
...but what about the vice grips? I thought that was the important
issue here.
DugFreez
I honestly don't NEED to know anything. I don't have a LOTR LE
preordered or plan on EVER buying a game from Jack. I just don't
understand why all the hush hush and shady behavior from the greatest
pinball seller in the world. I also don't understand why all the Jack
supports are saying "Just drop it!". Doesn't anyone else think it's
incredibly shady to NEED $400 to cover his cost, threaten to pull
orders if they post about it and claim to make "absolutely no money"
on the sale of these machines? Then as soon as the cat is out of the
bag it's "OK..original price" Shhhhhhhhhhhh don't talk about it.
Everything is cool. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. *wave hand in front of face*
"Jack is a great seller."
The issue may be resolved for you and anyone that knows that he
decided to honor the original price. Isn't it possible that someone
with a pre-order, that received the "$400 price hike e-mail" and
hasn't been on RGP might get stuck with the $5400 price tag? Can
anyone confirm that other e-mails were sent out that retracted the
price hike? Are you so sure that everyone is paying the same price?
As I've said before, I'm sure Jack has handled many good sales. That
is good for the buyer AND him. He makes a living at what he does and
needs to make money. I just can't understand this shady behavior and
everyone blindly saying it's OK because it's Jack.
goatdan
Damn the vice grips! Thanks to that, I'll no longer be buying a Vice
Grips LE!
pincorrect
Blame Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart did a number on Rubbermaid and almost ruined
them. Check out the documentary, "The High Cost of Low Price" and
learn more.
And don't think for a second that the conservative republicans did
anything to stop this - they were the driving force behind
deregulating everything necessary for these companies to outsource and
destroy the american manufacturing base.
The best part of all this is nowhere will you find more cars with
"support our troops" bumper stickers and american flags, than in a Wal-
Mart parking lot.
Michael O'Brien
This post makes the most sense in this bizarre mess of an issue. Weird
indeed. Seemed to be a big enough issue for Jack to send out a bunch
of emails, with the implied threat of not posting it to rgp (which
would almost guarantee it to be posted). I do not have a LE coming, am
happy for those who do, but to even be asked for almost an additional
10% payment right at the end, then to have it quickly retracted is
very poor form. I mean, it's still $400! That's not a small amount of
money..
Michael
Michael O'Brien
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ok, I meant this post below (from DugFreez):
wor...@aol.com
happened out of his control as he does NOT let
customers down. Does he need to make money - absolutely - don't
begrudge the guy if something occurred out of his control
to alter the equation. Would you go to work if you didn't get paid ?
Would you drive there, wear clothes you don't like wearing,
converse with people you probably wouldn't hang out with after work,
and do something you might not enjoy otherwise ? No you
wouldn't.
Anyway - I'm sure Jack got screwed here somewhere and offered refund -
what else do you want ? That's all he can do.
For me personally I've bought about a dozen games from jack - pins and
others stuff and he never fails on the service end. I had bought
a few (3) stern games that had damaged cabinets due to packing
deficiencies early on by Stern, no fault of his own. I would get
'discounts' on future games from Jack. HIS POCKET, not Stern's I'm
sure. Just to make it right for me.
One game was bad enough (again, not his fault here - shitty quality
control on stern's part) that he met me halfway and had a NEW
one given to me - we exchanged games and I got another. So he ended
up with shitty cabinet used game to sell and I got another NEW one.
Again, out of HIS POCKET.
Finally, I bought a Benchmark Basketball game (repro) and it was a
piece of garbage (same as thier Ten Strike Classic bowling game) and
Jack tried and tried to resolve the issues I was having with the
company and finally told me to just get it to him at Allentown and
he'd credit me
for a new pin purchase an amount I recall was pretty damn close to
what I paid. He was left with a heap of shit which I think he was
going to
ship (at his cost) back to Benchmark for some sort of credit for
himself. Again, out of HIS POCKET.
I didn't have to twist arms, nag him publically here on the newsgroup,
or threaten to sue him or anything close, he did it / offered things
as a
way to make it right for me, the customer. That's why he gets alot of
high praise here.
FYI - if not for him you wouldn't have Shrek, maybe the black
Spiderman versions, the new LOTR version etc... He gets some stuff
done for us
in the hobby that stern doesn't do. He helps Stern along the way and
i'm sure has hand in them still being around at this time due to
excitment
he generates for new pins. Any other dealers doing that for the hobby
or are they only concerned about making a buck (which they all have a
right
to do) ?
So... put down your sabres. Realize it was a unfortunate situation and
i'm sure Jack did his best. Sometimes it doesn't work out. The guy is
a
good guy to deal with - always has always will. See the big picture.
Joe Newhart
PinballSales Jack
post of the year when I tell the truth of what happened....
Jack
>
> Post of the year.
toyboy6
> I'm saving the Post of The Year for January 2010 - that will be the
> post of the year when I tell the truth of what happened....
>
> Jack
>
>
Oh man, can't Santa come out and deliver the scoop early!!!!