Sterns Hit or Miss list...
JohnKinKokomo
The Rolling Stones - Miss
Avatar - Miss
Iron Man - Hit
Big Buck Hunter Pro - Miss
NBA - Miss
24 - Miss
CSI: Crime Scene Investion -Miss
Batman - Hit
Indiana Jones - Miss
Shrek - Hit? F/G remake...
Wheel Of Fortune - Miss
Spider-Man - Hit
Family Guy - Hit
Pirates of the Caribbean - Hit
World Poker Tour - Miss
Nascar / Grand Prix - Miss
The Sopranos - Hit
Elvis - Hit
Ripley's Believe It Or Not! - Hit (recently getting more and more
love)
Lord Of The Rings - Hit
Terminator 3 - Miss
The Simpsons Pinball Party - Hit
RollerCoaster Tycoon - Miss
Playboy - Miss
Monopoly - Miss
Austin Powers - Miss, most people say. My friend has one and he/I like
it.
High Roller Casino - Miss
Sharkey's Shootout - Miss
Striker Xtreme -Miss
28 games in around 10 years. I left Shrek out as it is essentially a
remake. From my general reading on RGP on opinions of these Stern
games (I have not played all of them, and have owned a few), it looks
like:
10 Hits and 18 Misses. I'm sure many opinions will vary. Mine even
does. I do think this is a general consensus (right or wrong) on most
of these titles.
Looks to me like it's a miracle that Stren is still in business. I
hope they start getting more hits, especially when you take into
account that their prices just keep rising.
Destruk
EZ E
vidgameseller
The Rolling Stones - Miss i havent played to judge this one
Avatar - Miss disagree, i know alot that like this game, just many
are more pissed about not knowing the LE part coming out, so thats the
main complaint that i know about
Iron Man - Hit
Big Buck Hunter Pro - Miss
NBA - Miss
24 - Miss
limited production, most havent even tried one to judge it
Batman - Hit
Indiana Jones - Miss
Shrek - Hit? F/G remake...
agree now that its a very good game
Spider-Man - Hit
Family Guy - Hit
Pirates of the Caribbean - Hit
people, besides artwork complaints, many like the gameplay
apimo...@yahoo.com
LOTR
TSPP
BSM
FG (& Shrek) honorable mention
POTC honorable mention
Guilty pleasures-
IM
AP
NBA
bluehens
list from Monopoly on. Sales dictate hits and misses, but here is the
games I differ on from the general opinions.
I really don't care for SM, TSPP, BMDK, or IJ. I enjoy the originals
of every one of those themes over the new Sterns. Give me DE Simpsons
or WMS IJ any day.
Underappreicated Sterns: Monopoly, T3 (great ramps, much better than
T2 IMHO)
My least favorite Stern: Nascar by a mile.
Most favorite Stern: POTC, LOTR, Monopoly, IM,
Most surprising Stern: WOF (shots are so different, I like some of
the throwback sounds.) And WPT (Awful theme, but good shots, and the
LCD in the playfield is so much easier to see. I wish another game
would try that.)
But as always, what really counts is what you enjoy playing. There is
room for every one of these games in someones rec room.
-Vic
CEllison
percentage of the machines on this list that I have played were POORLY
maintained and played like complete and utter ass. Not fair to judge a
game like that.
Now how sad is that?
-=Chris=-
phishrace
> I do think this is a general consensus (right or wrong) on most
> of these titles.
It may be the general consensus here, but that doesn't equal sales
numbers. Many games you listed as misses sold very well to ops. I
still see Mono, RCT and others on location. Just found a SE a couple
of weeks ago. I'd bet that Mono sold more than IM, yet you've listed
Mono as a miss and IM as a hit. I think your list is a miss.
Ranking anything other than maybe mods on RGP opinion is a terrible
idea. Go out and look what's still on location in your area if you
want to see which were hits and which were misses.
-phish
Les Manley
I have played the vast majority of them on well maintained games on
route and in personal collections. Some are bigger hits than others,
and many have some redeeming qualities. There are few absolutely
awful games on the list, most are very playable and enjoyable to some
degree. Now if you were talking about hits and misses as to whether I
would buy one NIB, to me, basically the whole list is a miss, but
that's just me...
Tron- Looks good so far
The Rolling Stones - Miss (I didn't think it was that bad)
Avatar - Miss (I didn't think it was that bad)
Iron Man - Hit (I don't think this game is nearly as good as many, it
is absolutely nothing special in my eyes)
Big Buck Hunter Pro - Miss (This one grew old VERY fast)
NBA - Miss (Horrible)
24 - Miss (I didn't think it was that bad and I never watched 24)
CSI: Crime Scene Investion - Miss (I didn't think it was that bad and
I never watch CSI, varied shot layout and 3 flippers)
Batman - Hit (After the code revision yes, before, no)
Indiana Jones - Miss (Horrible)
Shrek - Hit? F/G remake...
Wheel Of Fortune - Miss (Sad, a great unique idea left incomplete and
wasted)
Spider-Man - Hit
Family Guy - Hit
Pirates of the Caribbean - Hit
World Poker Tour - Miss (This game is much better after you get some
plays on it and really figure out it, to a casual player I can see why
they wouldn't like it)
Nascar / Grand Prix - Miss (The theme sucks, but the game is decent to
play when it works right)
The Sopranos - Hit (I don't think Sopranos is anything special, unless
you like F-bombs constantly)
Elvis - Hit
Ripley's Believe It Or Not! - Hit (Theme is great for me and the game
is hard as hell, a real sleeper)
Lord Of The Rings - Hit
Terminator 3 - Miss (I think this is a very underrated game, much
better than many Sterns out there)
The Simpsons Pinball Party - Hit
RollerCoaster Tycoon - Miss (Great shot variation, but the theme
stinks and I hate how everything scores 10,000 points)
Playboy - Miss (Very shallow, but nice to look at)
Monopoly - Miss (Great shot variation again, but I hate how everything
scores 10,000 points)
Austin Powers - Miss (Fun game to play on route once in a while, good
theme, I think it is underrated)
cody chunn
"wrong", he said it was "general consensus" which equates to "popular
opinion". Obviously this does not take into account sales figures. You are
coming off like proper dicks.
Argue the validity of his popular opinion claims if you like, but countering
his statement with a totally different set of parameters is ignorant.
-cody
"phishrace" wrote in message
news:a98e3b44-30e4-4feb...@s41g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
cody chunn
-cody
"JohnKinKokomo" wrote in message
news:8ac039bb-ae3c-40e6...@e21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
phishrace
> Dude(s), before you start jabbing him with sticks and saying his list is
> "wrong", he said it was "general consensus" which equates to "popular
> opinion". Obviously this does not take into account sales figures. You are
> coming off like proper dicks.
He's obviously trying to equate his list to sales. Did you not read
this part of his post?
"Looks to me like it's a miracle that Stren is still in business"
Don't be a dick and only read half a post before hitting the reply
button.
-phish
cody chunn
A summation based on his "data". He plainly stated the qualifiers for his
list as "RGP opinions" and "general consensus", then added the business
comment as an afterthought.
You guys made the business part the focus when it clearly wasn't.
i.e. dicks.
Drive through!
-cody
"phishrace" wrote in message
news:9952ecce-47ce-48de...@17g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
James Greene
I'd rate several of the misses should be 'okay' ratings since I'd play
them on location but wouldn't consider them for a home purchase
(Avatar, Ripleys and Big Buck fall into this class for me).
Rob T
Since you are basing the above on your reading of opinions here at RGP,
I will say that I agree with the vast majority of your "hits" and
"misses", with the following exceptions: I think WoF could be
considered a "hit" as the design and gameplay is considered very good,
but the "miss" part would be with regard to the unfinished code.
I think it is still a bit early to conclude that Avatar is a miss since
opinions do change around here.
--
Rob T
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
railbender
I think that Avatar is just in the trough of disappointment which is
the time period that immediatley follows the peak of hype. I remember
POTC, SM, and BDK were there big time. I think POTC climbed out
without any major code updates if I remember correctly but I had a
chance to buy a couple HUO for $3K or less in its early years.
Iron Man is the only pin I can think of that everyone appears to have
liked right out of the box. IJ is the only one panned right out of the
box. 24 and WOF could be hit with more code. Don't know about CSI and
NBA.
Are Avatar and IM pretty complete on code complete? If not, they may
jump up to hero status with an update.
I think that WPT might end up being a hit. I know we didn't think much
of it because of the eternal mutliball issue on location. Actually a
lot of location pins have this problem.
Monopoly isn't a miss in my opinion.
Feel free to throw tomatoes.
Kenny
goatdan
> The Rolling Stones - Miss
I think you need to wait a little to decide this one way or the
other. It seems not that many people have played one yet, but the
majority of people that have that I know who are pinball collectors
like it. I feel like a game almost needs a year to 'fester' to figure
out if it is awesome or not. Rarely is the first impression on a game
right.
> Avatar - Miss
With the exception of a few vocal people on here, the consensus that
I've heard is that this is a very solid title. I tend to agree with
that. I think you'll have to judge this one in a year or two, after
the whole LE debate has died out (and the LEs are impossible to find
and commanding a big premium, probably).
> Big Buck Hunter Pro - Miss
Barely anyone seems to own one, but it's a game again that I have
heard more love for than hate.
> NBA - Miss
> 24 - Miss
> CSI: Crime Scene Investion -Miss
I'd more or less put 'the jury is out' on these three. So few people
have played them, and the opinions never seem to synch up. For my
part, I really like NBA and CSI, but I don't care at all for 24. I
know a number of people who like 24 a lot though. With so few of all
of these out there, I'm guessing they will hold their value, but will
also be hard to gather a consensus on. For those that haven't played
them, they tend to automatically equate that with not liking the
games, and that isn't really fair.
> Wheel Of Fortune - Miss
Gameplay-wise, WoF gets a lot of love. The only thing people seem to
not like about it, aside of the theme, is the fact that it is
unfinished. But, it seems like a lot of people don't care as the game
is deep enough and tough enough that mortal humans can't get to the
unfinished stuff anyway. I know a few people that had one and they
never got there.
> World Poker Tour - Miss
Seems to get a lot of love when it is brought up, just not the art and
stuff.
> Terminator 3 - Miss
Rarely seems to be talked about, but seems to hold it's value decently
which says something to me.
> Monopoly - Miss
This is another rarely talked about game, but it seems to hold a
decent value.
> Austin Powers - Miss, most people say. My friend has one and he/I like
> it.
It's my second favorite Stern, but yeah -- most don't like it.
> Looks to me like it's a miracle that Stren is still in business. I
> hope they start getting more hits, especially when you take into
> account that their prices just keep rising.
Well, using the general consensus on hits versus misses from RGP to
judge how a company is doing doesn't exactly work. A lot of gamers
don't like the Wii. That doesn't mean Nintendo is doing something
wrong. A lot of the games that seem to be disliked by the general RGP
consensus (IJ4 on your list) earns great. And, if route operators
like it but don't post, that seems like a success to me!
snyper2099
update WPT to the latest rom revision, it plays much better.
JohnKinKokomo
> I actually agree with all titles on your list except WPT. If you
> update WPT to the latest rom revision, it plays much better.
Yeah I have actually owned WPT, and I liked it. However, when the game
designer doesn't care for the theme, and the art is that bad, I guess
it's a miss, maybe not...
goatdan
If you're going off total package, yeah -- dud. But then again, if
you're going off the gameplay alone like you had originally stated, it
gets more love for the gameplay than a lot of games do.
JohnKinKokomo
> If you're going off total package, yeah -- dud. But then again, if
> you're going off the gameplay alone like you had originally stated, it
> gets more love for the gameplay than a lot of games do.
Dan,
Trying to figure out where I said gameplay alone. My thoughts on games
are I have three criteria: Looks (Art), Theme, and Gameplay. For "ME"
it needs to have two of the three and gameplay MUST be one of the two.
An example for me would be IJ Williams. I love the gameplay, and I
love the theme. The art is just ok to me. So it has two of my three
and gameplay is one so I like it.
goatdan
Oh, sorry -- you're right. I read that into it as gameplay is the
thing most often talked about. Then take my comments about some
(perhaps even many) of the above items out, as there is definitely
some debate over hit / miss with themes. But then again, that's
always the case.
When it comes to gameplay, I think they have done WAY better on
average than the B/W/DE/Gottlieb/Sega days.
Mike Flanagan
A miracle? Really....
Let's look at Bally/Williams from 1992 to 1995. Sure, it was a
different era, but how many of those games were hits or misses?
Party Zone - Miss
Getaway - Miss
Black Rose - Miss
Fish Tales - Hit
Dr. Who - Miss
WhiteWater - Hit
Creature Black Lagoon - Hit
Dracula - Miss
Twilight Zone - Hit
Addams Family - Hit
Indiana Jones - Hit
Judge Dredd - Miss
Star Trek Next Generation - Hit
Popeye - Miss
Demolition Man - Miss
Jackbot - Miss
Who Dunnit - Miss
World Cup Soccer - Hit
Flintstones - Miss
Corvette - Miss
RoadShow - Miss
The Shadow - Hit
Dirty Harry - Miss
Theatre of Magic - Hit
No Fear - Miss
Indianapolis 500 - Miss
Johnny Mnemonic - Miss
Looks like 10 out of 27 hits. Furthermore, I think I was being
generous with the Shadow (appreciated now but hated then) and Fish
Tales. While I personally like quite a few more of the games in
there, I wouldn't describe them as hits (maybe HS2). And I personally
liked quite a few of those Sterns as well that weren't hits...
FWIW-
Mike
jackofdiamonds
Only 3 hits for me LOTR,SM and IM.
YenningComity
The problem with your logic is that williams failures still sold more
than sterns. HS2 sold over 13k units DW sold over 7.5k. These days
stern cannot manage what doctor who did with LOTR or TSPP let alone
their turds. A large part of that is comparing the industry during
better years, but even williams decided to move on to greener
pastures.
goatdan
I wouldn't say that is a problem with the logic. The market is
different, clearly, but I think his point was that if Williams was
turning out one great game for every three back then and still selling
like crazy, Stern must be doing something right to turn out so many
good games.
Mike -- the one thing I wonder is were you comparing what RGP thought
of the games back then or what they think of them now? If it is back
then, I don't know if TZ was considered a hit back then -- ops didn't
leave it out long because it was constantly breaking down and wasn't
ever a great earner. I don't know if players had discovered it back
then or not.
On the flip side, both Getaway and Demo Man, especially back then, did
a pretty good job earning and sticking around (Both still have some
games on route around here!) I don't know if they were ever truly
appreciated by players or not, but just something to think about.
azpinlawyer
> Avatar - HIT
> Iron Man - MISS
> Big Buck Hunter Pro - HIT
> NBA - Miss
> 24 - Miss
> CSI: Crime Scene Investion -Miss
> Indiana Jones - Miss
> Shrek - Hit? F/G remake...
> Spider-Man - Hit
> Family Guy - Hit
> Pirates of the Caribbean - Hit
> Nascar / Grand Prix - Miss
> The Sopranos - Hit
> Elvis - Hit
Mike Flanagan
Sure, but that goes back to the definition of a hit, and comparing
different eras. Take the music business. In 2010, the best selling
album of the year was Eminem, with ~6 million units sold worldwide.
Its a hit for this day and age. Compare that to 1991 (Party Zone,
anyone), when Garth Brooks sold 19 million albums worldwide. Both
hits, just different eras and different metrics.
> I wouldn't say that is a problem with the logic. The market is
> different, clearly, but I think his point was that if Williams was
> turning out one great game for every three back then and still selling
> like crazy, Stern must be doing something right to turn out so many
> good games.
>
> Mike -- the one thing I wonder is were you comparing what RGP thought
> of the games back then or what they think of them now? If it is back
> then, I don't know if TZ was considered a hit back then -- ops didn't
> leave it out long because it was constantly breaking down and wasn't
> ever a great earner. I don't know if players had discovered it back
> then or not.
Which is always a problem. I honestly wasn't collecting in 1992, nor
were most of us. Lloyd probably has a good idea of what ops thought
of the games, but the triumph back then (and now) was the money in the
cash box vs. the playability. If you can get both, so be it, but from
a home owner's perspective, I could care less what a game earned (CV,
TZ). But I still think they sold a boatload of TZs (though not as
many as TAF, obviously).
> On the flip side, both Getaway and Demo Man, especially back then, did
> a pretty good job earning and sticking around (Both still have some
> games on route around here!) I don't know if they were ever truly
> appreciated by players or not, but just something to think about.
I agree with Getaway, but don't personally think the game was/is a hit
playability wise. I included WCS as a hit since I like the game and
see the damn thing everywhere, especially when travelling abroad,
which made me think it might have been a hit for Williams
internationally. That logic may be faulty.
Your mileage may vary.
goatdan
> > Mike -- the one thing I wonder is were you comparing what RGP thought
> > of the games back then or what they think of them now? If it is back
> > then, I don't know if TZ was considered a hit back then -- ops didn't
> > leave it out long because it was constantly breaking down and wasn't
> > ever a great earner. I don't know if players had discovered it back
> > then or not.
>
> Which is always a problem. I honestly wasn't collecting in 1992, nor
> were most of us. Lloyd probably has a good idea of what ops thought
> of the games, but the triumph back then (and now) was the money in the
> cash box vs. the playability. If you can get both, so be it, but from
> a home owner's perspective, I could care less what a game earned (CV,
> TZ). But I still think they sold a boatload of TZs (though not as
> many as TAF, obviously).
Well, and that is a totally different measuring stick than what you
used for Stern if you look at just what ops like. From what I've
heard, Ops have found both BBH and IJ4 to be very solid earners, but
you put them in the miss category. I know that I didn't find TZ at
all interesting back in the day, as it was way too complex for my
tastes, but the RGP opinion from back then would have been formed
mostly by players and I don't know if I felt that way because I was
very new to the game, or if most people did and TZ got popular later
perhaps coinciding with the decline of in-game toys (which personally,
I'm a fan of less toys and more action, but I know that isn't
everyone).
I think the point shouldn't be lost though, which is that percentage-
wise no matter which way you cut it, it seems that more Stern machines
are appreciated than B/W games are. There are *some* B/W games that
seem to be "the most" appreciated and talked about, but at the end of
the day they definitely weren't perfect.
> > On the flip side, both Getaway and Demo Man, especially back then, did
> > a pretty good job earning and sticking around (Both still have some
> > games on route around here!) I don't know if they were ever truly
> > appreciated by players or not, but just something to think about.
>
> I agree with Getaway, but don't personally think the game was/is a hit
> playability wise. I included WCS as a hit since I like the game and
> see the damn thing everywhere, especially when travelling abroad,
> which made me think it might have been a hit for Williams
> internationally. That logic may be faulty.
I guess it depends. Seeing as how there are Getaways, Demo Mans and
WCSs that are still on route in multiple places, it seems like they
are appreciated at least by the general public decently. DM I would
be surprised if it didn't start out as hated by players that would
have posted online, as the original code for it was absolutely abysmal
(you think some of those Sterns that were released partially
incomplete were bad? I'll loan you the ROMs that came in my DM when I
picked it up and you can see BAD), but seems to have grown into a
lukewarm position, so I can see calling it a miss still. Whitewater
is another I wonder what initial impressions of it were -- that was a
game that like TZ, not too long ago (~10 years, wow -- I'm not that
old so that should be a long time for me...) you could score for $1000
or less very easily. It seems to have grown in popularity now, but it
might need to be considered a 'miss' for the time.
And Fish Tales is pretty polarizing, it could go both ways too. It
earned okay, although not great (at the place where I worked, T2, the
Getaway and VND outdrew it, but it outperformed Gottlieb's Strikes and
Spares). Not sure if that means anything again in the great scheme of
things, but again the initial point of percentage of hits versus
misses is definitely correct.
John Bigbooty
That's one highly subject list. Not too many people are going to label
Sopranos or Elvis a "Hit".
goatdan
<BOGUSevileye0702BO...@bellsouth.netBOGUS> wrote:
> That's one highly subject list. Not too many people are going to label
> Sopranos or Elvis a "Hit".
Completely seriously here -- why do you never see either of these
titles for sale? And don't say because they didn't sell any, at least
with Elvis I know there was even a (*gasp*) Limited Edition run of 500
that they made. I've seen one at auction in the past maybe three or
four years, and I know someone who owns one and there is one on route
around here... I also know my friend who has one has told me he'd
never sell it...
What happened to them all? I know of even less Sopranos pins, but
those that have them, keep them.
JohnKinKokomo
the games are talked about or viewed on RGP. From what I've seen, SOP
and Elvis hold their value pretty well. Does that make them a hit? I'm
not sure.
Everything is subjective. Did we actually go to the moon? Who knows
for sure...
Dan Q very much
>
> Everything is subjective. Did we actually go to the moon? Who knows
> for sure...
I know for sure. We did.
"Everything is subjective" is self-contradictory hogwash.
Not that that has anything to do with pinball... So, is the statement "Pinball involves shiny metal balls" subjective? They might actually be green cubes of jello?
I feel sorry for people that see everything in black and white.
machine.slave
Date Name Me Review
2000-09 Sharkey's Shootout 7.7 Hit <-- EBD with a
DMD and a toy.. how can you go wrong?
2003-02 The Simpsons Pinball Party 9.0 Hit <-- this thing is a
timeless art piece, IMO.
2003-06 Terminator 3 7.3 Miss <-- I agree with this
one
2003-12 The Lord of the Rings 7.9 Hit <-- I just can't get into
this myself.. I've tried.
2005-02 The Sopranos 7.6 Hit <-- this game is
hilarious with the swears on
2005-08 NASCAR 8.0 Hit <-- great fun, I don't
care what anyone says
2006-02 World Poker Tour 7.0 Miss <-- need to play it
more, but so far I don't care for it
2006-07 Pirates of the Caribbean 8.1 Hit <-- GREAT game..
it's stop and go, and I'll never play it against Adam again.. but it's
great in a large collection
2007 Family Guy 7.9 Hit
2007-06 Spider-Man 8.8 Hit <-- one of SR's greatest, and a
timeless theme
2007 Black Spider-Man 7.7 Hit <-- .. uhh.. I don't
get why this score is lower
2007-10 Wheel Of Fortune 7.7 Hit <-- good humor, great
artwork.. would be good in a larger collection. Wish they'd finish
the code though..
2008 Shrek 7.8 Hit <-- slight edge to FGY
for the theme, but they're the same game. Love the green trim though.
2008-04 Indiana Jones 6.8 Miss <-- absolute mess...
Ark multiball is the only redeeming quality.
2008-07 Batman 7.9 Hit <-- have yet to try it with
the new code, but I love it all the same
2008-11 CSI 7.5 Hit / Miss <-- on the fence
with this one..
2009-02 24 7.3 Miss <-- yeah, I don't like
it.. sorry.
2009 NBA 7.8 Hit <-- great game, love
the dunk shot!
2010-01 Big Buck Hunter Pro 7.4 Miss <-- not as bad as
people say.. theme kills it, but at least it's funny.
2010 Iron Man 8.1 Hit <-- this is like
playing a classic SS with a ramp and DMD. WINNING!
2010-08 Avatar 7.5 Miss <-- ehhh I don't like it.
The sound is great though.
2011-01 Rolling Stones 7.8 Hit <-- this is a pretty fun
game, but pretty easy as well. I could hit those ramp shots all day
long.. and that says a lot about the difficulty for me, 'cause I'm a
lousy player. lol! Not a Stones fan though
What Gary Stern said at MPE made absolute sense to me and really put
things in perspective. Yes, there have been some cost-cutting
measures, yes they were struggling.. but the change in design
philosophy was done to get people interested in playing pins again,
not to cheap, shitty pinball. He mentioned that for the longest time,
pinball design was about challenging the pros and pushing their skills
even further. By the time they released TSPP, they realized that the
designers had outdone themselves.. suddenly the casual player was no
longer interested because the games were just too confusing. It was
time to pull things back to basics. I agree, and that makes perfect
sense to me (and it should to you as well). Think about every pin
party you've ever been to. What games get played the most? The
classic solid-states. Why? Because they're quick and easy fun. It's
like going back to the 3-minute Rock single with music. Last party I
was at, we did a dollar throwdown with Adam (Vengeance) on TSPP just
for the heck of it. Adam's an amazing, top-ranked player, and I'll
never do that again.. I can't wait 20 mins for my turn, and neither
can people on location. You need to squeeze in a quick game before
the movie at the theater, or a few balls while waiting for that round
at the pub. That's it, that's all... and that's what draws the ops
in. They don't want you playing 30 mins on 50 cents. They want these
things eating quarters, and although Stern appreciates the collectors
out there (hence the LE models), their #1 goal is to keep the ops
happy.
That said, Gary also said that since switching to this philosophy
their sales are up 50% world-wide.. and this is great news for
pinball. With that kind of profit, we'll see better improvements in
gameplay again (ie. hiring back Lyman and Steve).
You may not like their games, but they're the only ones out there that
still make the games we love.. and for that I'm thankful.
stevenp
Sensible perspective here. What the "in-the-know" rgp'ers either don't
realize or fail to acknowledge in their hubris is that the primary
market for new pins is the ops who use them in their businesses, and
*not* the fussy home collectors here. That's the market that Stern has
to keep happy, and where their profits will come from.
Location players tend to like *any* well-maintained pin. Including
older ones. Sure, I love my LotR and it's a great home game. But I'll
play any clean game on location. Case in point, just stopped by the NYC
Pinball League on Tuesday. Was surprised to see the line-up shifted to
all SS games (Cyclone, Bobby Orr, Bally Start Trek). All 3 games played
well and were a lot of fun! (Kudos, Max) They were also well-suited for
a competitive league. (Sometimes I prefer games that rely on pure skills
and basic strategies instead of the games where knowing all the arcane
rules gives a decided edge.) ANd I can see how even these older games
can be just as appealing to casual players as modern games, and less
intimidating.
Remember EMs and early SS games, where all of the 'rules' were painted
on the pf for all to see?
--
stevenp