Where is WOZ!!!???????

[Big12bus]

I heard at TPF that this game was shipping last year, then issues came up. Then it slipped into early spring, then issues came up....Then now we are in the fall. Jack said when "I PUT OUT A DATE...I PLAN TO HOLD TOO IT; NOT LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going on ????

Bill

[seymour.shabow]

Big12bus wrote:
> I heard at TPF that this game was shipping last year, then issues came up. Then it slipped into early spring, then issues came up....Then now we are in the fall. Jack said when "I PUT OUT A DATE...I PLAN TO HOLD TOO IT; NOT LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going on ????
>
> Bill

I'm guessing they had some more delays. The rumor I heard is that
software is holding it up along with some supplier issues. (something
about the quality not being up to par, no one wants to see post after
release that says "got my WOZ and the XXXX broke already")

It'll get where it's going when it gets there.... don't even know if
anyone around me ordered one for opening box party....

[Pinball Dave]

LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going
on ????
>
> Bill

Bill, I loved you in RCT. I don't know why people thought you talked
too much.

[sjma...@flash.net]

On Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:57:09 PM UTC-5, Big12bus wrote:
> I heard at TPF that this game was shipping last year, then issues came up. Then it slipped into early spring, then issues came up....Then now we are in the fall. Jack said when "I PUT OUT A DATE...I PLAN TO HOLD TOO IT; NOT LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going on ???? Bill

Buckwheat come home

[spidey]

ROFL, that's JJP #2.

[BUY...@aol.com]

saving it for spring 2013 show at allentown

[mr tobias]

This is one of the problems with the pay now, buy later approach:
people get restless when slippage occurs.

Personally I'd sooner problems be resolved and the software get
substantially completed BEFORE the machines leave the factory. If that
means waiting a few extra months, well I can live with it.

[Pinaholic (NYC)]

I agree, but hope to see an update later today!
Allen

[Ron - NYP]

which number machine are you getting ?
Ron

--
Pinball Flyer Database
www.nypinball.com/brochures.php


"Big12bus" <big1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ef82a60-3697-45ed...@googlegroups.com...

[EZ E]

What a train wreck! JJP is the poster child of how NOT to start a
business. First mistake was telling people they'd have a game ~Jan 2012
and not having a clue what he's doing!! most of you guys forgot about
that date. 2nd mistake was thumbing Stern's nose. Stern's knocking games
out, JJP is looking for parts in an empty "Wherehouse" and claiming his
problems are from suppliers. Who's fault is that? The lack of business
sense should concern anyone with a position!! It's mid Aug and again NO
REAL pinball machine. Best part is he's got guys actually believing the
BS after all these months. Anyone want to bet he produces one machine
and calls it quit?


--
EZ E
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Pappy Boyington]

On Aug 16, 9:57 pm, Big12bus <big12...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I heard at TPF that this game was shipping last year, then issues came up.  Then it slipped into early spring, then issues came up....Then now we are in the fall.  Jack said when "I PUT OUT A DATE...I PLAN TO HOLD TOO IT;  NOT LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going on ????
>
> Bill

Word on the WOZ group is that the vendors are holding things up. Parts
will arrive when they are all back from vacation. Yup that's right,
they don't seem to be motivated enough to get Jack his parts.

My guess is from seeing the state of the game at the E3 show in June,
the game is WAY behind on the software side.

Word is that Jack will have a game on test sometime this month and
then he hopes to ship within the next 90 days.

Sit back and relax is what I keep hearing. Sit back and relax, it will
arrive when it arrives.

Pappy

[EZ E]

With no Operating System you think a "Test" game is going out? Again
this could be a big mistake, dropping a "Test" machine on the market?
That test game is a long ways off! JJP claimed 50 machines this month,
those aren't coming but the test game is??? Get off the Cool-Aid!

[James Lewis]

It will be here and when it is it will be a great game not some rehashed
fan layout game with the same shit just stired around and rethemed. Ill
bet the motors wont break the first game and the pf wont have vertical
lines in it. If your retailing games Sterns your best bet but if your
wanting to buy a NIB I'll put my money on Jack and I did. I would also
bet that you and Jack had a falling out so now your bad mouthing him
every chance you get.


--
James Lewis

[Pappy Boyington]

Lassie?

Relax WOZers just having fun.

Pappy

[Pinboy-Archive]

Jack is EXTREMELY lucky to have such a loyal following. I hope he does
something nice for everyone who continues to believe in him and his
team.


--
Pinboy-Archive

[Joe Grenuk]

I would also
> bet that you and Jack had a falling out so now your bad mouthing him
> every chance you get.

James, come on. Why would Jack have a falling out with such a nice,
intelligent, kind, friendly, warm, and helpful guy?

[american...@hotmail.com]

On Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:52:34 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> On Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:57:09 PM UTC-5, Big12bus wrote: > I heard at TPF that this game was shipping last year, then issues came up. Then it slipped into early spring, then issues came up....Then now we are in the fall. Jack said when "I PUT OUT A DATE...I PLAN TO HOLD TOO IT; NOT LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going on ???? Bill Buckwheat come home

It's Buh-Wheat; Horay!

This post is not affected by the gag order.

[James Lewis]

I'm not a puppy blindly following Jack. Im somewhat pissed that the game
is late and there really is no sign that its coming soon but it will be
here. I have met and talked with Jack and he is genuine. He will make
this game as good a game as it looks. Gary Stern won't give you the time
of day and in my opinion his games are worth nowhere near what he is
asking. They are just more of the same.


--
James Lewis

[James Lewis]

LOL, its that or GS cuts him a deal to bad mouth Jack to try to ruin his
credibility.

[David Bing]

You are the little man who cried for a refund almost a year ago and now you stand up on your box and claim your support!! Your previous actions show that you don't' have a clue about any of this and yet you try to convince everyone that this is going to be the greatest pin ever. what a joke!!! http://rgparchive.com/rgpforum/showthread.php?t=368661&highlight=james+lewis+woz

[american...@hotmail.com]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[James Lewis]

You are the little man who cried for a refund almost a year ago and now
you stand up on your box and claim your support!! Your previous actions
show that you don't' have a clue about any of this and yet you try to
convince everyone that this is going to be the greatest pin ever. what a

joke!!! http://tinyurl.com/chnkwdk



Correct you are. I won't deny it. People make mistakes and I did. I
thought the whitewood looked horrible and I jumped the gun. I am certainly
glad I didn't take my money back when Jack offered it to me. I'm sure he
would still give it back if I asked.

I never said it would be the greatest game ever. I said it will be a great
game. I'm basing this on what Jack has shown us. It sure looks a lot
better than the stuff coming out of Sterns door.

[pismo...@gmail.com]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 9:39:24 AM UTC-7, James Lewis wrote:
> I'm not a puppy blindly following Jack. Im somewhat pissed that the game
>
> is late and there really is no sign that its coming soon but it will be
>
> here. I have met and talked with Jack and he is genuine. He will make
>
> this game as good a game as it looks. Gary Stern won't give you the time
>
> of day and in my opinion his games are worth nowhere near what he is
>
> asking. They are just more of the same.
>

"Gary Stern won't give you the time of day??" I've met him on a couple of occasions and find him to be warm and friendly.

...and you're seriously making a blanket statement about all Stern games being lousy? Sounds to me like someone who's getting a little nervous about sinking his $ into a flailing start up company of arrogant clowns.

[James Lewis]

Whatever dude. I guess we will see when the game comes out. Im not going
to get my panties all in a bunch over what someone else thinks.

[Pappy Boyington]

On Aug 17, 11:39 am, James Lewis <zr11...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have met and talked with Jack and he is genuine. He will make
> this game as good a game as it looks.

Yes he is, I've met him too and he's really a nice guy.

Gary Stern won't give you the time
> of day

All you have to do is call him. I've pulled him aside at the TPF twice
now and both times he was very receptive to what I had to say. He also
has given many personal tours of his factory. Quite opposite as the
picture you are trying to paint. But hey he probably knows a schmuck
when he sees you coming so maybe he didn't give YOU the time of day:-)

and in my opinion his games are worth nowhere near what he is
> asking. They are just more of the same

The record is still broke, you might want to get that fixed;-)

Pappy

[EZ E]

First for the record I got out thank god! Why because JJP was FULL OF
SHIT 9 months ago!! Second it's not about me! It's about where is the
GAME! You should ask where is the game?


--
EZ E

[pismo...@gmail.com]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 11:08:25 AM UTC-7, James Lewis wrote:
> Whatever dude. I guess we will see if the game comes out. Im not going

>
> to get my panties all in a bunch over what someone else thinks.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> James Lewis
>
> This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

Fixed it for you...

[James Lewis]

Papy Boyington;1985057 Wrote:
> On Aug 17, 11:39*am, James Lewis <zr11... (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>

First off Pappy, I didn't say a word about GS except that he might be
cutting E a deal to bad mouth Jack. I was somewhat joking about it but I
wouldn't put it past him as he has told people that he wouldn't sell to
them if they were buying from Jack. Only after other peoples reply did I
give my opinion of him and his games. Second of all what I think of him
and his games is my opinion. If you like them knock yourself out. My
gameroom is full except for the slot that says WOZ on it. When the next
JJP game comes out Ill sell my SM to make room for it if its a good
game. And, since I don't see us being BFFls, holding hands and playing
pinball together I don't think it matters what either one of us likes or
buys. Oh Im not totally anti Stern. I do think X-Men looks like a pretty
good game.

[metallik]

> My guess is from seeing the state of the game at the E3 show in June,
> the game is WAY behind on the software side.

That software was a simple demo to make the game flip. They weren't
going to run real code when half the lights weren't installed yet. I
doubt that demo code is even in the actual program. Look at the
various LCD sequences Jack's released if you want a gist of the actual
ruleset. If you think that all Keith's gotten done so far is
mechanics and a looping display video, you underestimate him a bit :)

As for the game.. it's summer. Who cares if it's late? Just try to
get it done before the weather goes to crap.

[pins4fun]

+1.

Also, as to what James Lewis is saying ("my gameroom is full except
for the slot that says WOZ on it; when the next JJP game comes out Ill
sell my SM to make room for it if its a good game") , I've already
sold off all of my newer Stern games so I don't have to worry about
anything like that anymore. I'm not a puppy blindly following Jack
either, but I believe Jack is genuine and will 'overdeliver' soon.
Now, this is a very carefully considered opinion of mine, it's no way
anti Stern or anti anybodyelse, it is what I think. I also agree with
you James that Jack will make this game (WOZ) as good a game as it
looks before he delivers it to his customers.

[pins4fun]

I almost forgot, my WOZEC LE is going right next to my Scared Stiff
(another Dennis Nordman/Greg Freres/Mark Weyna game, for those who may
not readily know) when it comes in, at least until JJP #2 is
released. Then all JJP pins will have their own section, an exciting
thought indeed :)

[homebrood]

New Wicked update out phenomenal!!! I can't wait this is going to be incredible!!!

Tom

[EZ E]

Are you kidding? Look how slow the play is! It' looks like the video is
in slow motion. OMG I feel so sorry for you guys that purchased the
game!!


--
EZ E

[pinstor]

Watch the ball go into the Wizard hole, and the following weak
kickouts......sllllooooowwwww. Hope they will juice that up a little.

[homebrood]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 10:08:48 PM UTC-5, pinstor wrote:
> Watch the ball go into the Wizard hole, and the following weak
>
> kickouts......sllllooooowwwww. Hope they will juice that up a little.

Please it's just showing the color changes of the led's. You guys are pathetic!

Tom

[pins4fun]

Programming the lights should be relatively hassle-free now that the
color-changing leds under the clear playfield inserts are replaced
with solid-color ones, while retaining the color-changing ones in
strategically critical areas. I think that this new 'scheme' allows
the various solid-color led lights to co-exist more tolerantly with
the defining border-colors of the adjacent artwork, just my way of
lookin at things, so to speak, I'm here to share tattoos and stories,
that's all.

The end result is fortuitous nevertheless as the vibrant color scheme
of the playfield appears better defined, more pronounced, and easily
perceptible during the gameplay, although it's diffucult to say for
sure from the posted video, and I've heard people say the video
doesn't do justice to the actual game, again.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking how beautiful this thing is gonna be after its
evolution is complete, and find myself humming a tune inadvertantly
stuck in my head, with images of a young Jimi morphing into purple
haze after his guitar rendition of the star spangled banner at
Woodstock ...

Purple haze all in my brain,
lately things don't seem the same
Actin' funny but i don't know why
excuse me while i kiss the sky ....

[chuck]

Does anyone actually know this guy?? ;-)

[chuck]

On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:12:05 PM UTC-4, metallik wrote:

> As for the game.. it's summer. Who cares if it's late? Just try to
>
> get it done before the weather goes to crap.

The weather going to crap is a great reason to play pinball...

[metallik]

...which is exactly why it'd be nice to be unboxing this thing as the
leaves are flying in Oct/Nov :)

[Sean Casey]

Yep, I got $10K says he produces more than one game. I will put my
money in escrow if you put yours.

Sean

On 8/17/2012 7:43 AM, EZ E wrote:
> What a train wreck! JJP is the poster child of how NOT to start a
> business. First mistake was telling people they'd have a game ~Jan 2012
> and not having a clue what he's doing!! most of you guys forgot about
> that date. 2nd mistake was thumbing Stern's nose. Stern's knocking games
> out, JJP is looking for parts in an empty "Wherehouse" and claiming his
> problems are from suppliers. Who's fault is that? The lack of business
> sense should concern anyone with a position!! It's mid Aug and again NO
> REAL pinball machine. Best part is he's got guys actually believing the
> BS after all these months. Anyone want to bet he produces one machine
> and calls it quit?
>
>

--
Sean Casey
Easily Amused Pinball
www.eapinball.com
408/888-0805

[DugFreez]

James Lewis;1985084 Wrote:
> First off Pappy, I didn't say a word about GS except that he might be
> cutting E a deal to bad mouth Jack. I was somewhat joking about it but I
> wouldn't put it past him as he has told people that he wouldn't sell to
> them if they were buying from Jack. Only after other peoples reply did I
> give my opinion of him and his games. Second of all what I think of him
> and his games is my opinion. If you like them knock yourself out. My
> gameroom is full except for the slot that says WOZ on it. When the next
> JJP game comes out Ill sell my SM to make room for it if its a good
> game. And, since I don't see us being BFFls, holding hands and playing
> pinball together I don't think it matters what either one of us likes or
> buys. Oh Im not totally anti Stern. I do think X-Men looks like a pretty
> good game.

That Gary Stern "story" reminds me of the time Jack raised the
LotR:LE prices $400 and threatened to cancel anyones order that
mentioned it on RGP. Saying that the price increase was beyond his
control when really he didn't order enough to cover his pre-orders and
had to buy them from a Canadian distributor. Then when he gets found out
it's "I'm going to honor what everyone paid". BUSTED!

I still figure that some buyer got that e-mail asking for the $400
increase and didn't see his RGP "busted" retraction and probably got
stuck with the increase. That coupled with the fact that Jack was all
about a handshake and a smile to sell Stern's back then and then later
says that the same machines he had been selling to people for years felt
like playing a cardboard box and you had to struggle to get the ball up
a ramp.

That's some real integrity there. I still can't understand how someone
could have bought a Stern from him then and hear what he said about them
later and even consider buying another thing from him.

http://tinyurl.com/cplxeu3

..and here's another interesting read about how Jack handled a customer
that wasn't happy that his NIB LotR:LE was a Canadian model.

http://tinyurl.com/cahavpx

3 years...how soon people forget.


--
DugFreez

[llabrevlis]

Not forgotten, just put in perspective to how idiotic that whole
situation with the coin door was.

Anybody in retail will have a customer that you cannot please, and I
don't buy that they should do whatever it takes to make an
unreasonable customer happy, there are limits. Jack had obviously
reached his limit in this case.

And in answer to the topic, they are coming, and it'll be very to
interesting to see if the trolls have the balls to come out of hiding
when it hits!!

Dale

[american...@hotmail.com]

The original gag "order".

[John I]

metallik;1985266 Wrote:

> On Aug 18, 1:00*am, chuck <ch... (AT) clhess (DOT) com> wrote:
> > On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:12:05 PM UTC-4, metallik wrote:

> > > As for the game.. *it's summer. *Who cares if it's late? *Just try

> to
> >
> > > get it done before the weather goes to crap.
> >
> > The weather going to crap is a great reason to play pinball...
>

> ....which is exactly why it'd be nice to be unboxing this thing as the

> leaves are flying in Oct/Nov :)

You kidding? The weather is crap now. It's a thousand degrees here
every day. Come October it just starts getting cool out and I can
actually go outside and do things other than play pinball!

As for WoZ it will come out when it comes out. Not an easy thing to
start a pinball company and Jack obviously underestimated the task.
Sounds like he needs a few lessons in supplier management. ISO9000
would be a good read. Also, software always takes longer than expected
- especially when an OS has to be developed from the ground up.
Sticking a big LCD display in didn't help make the development any
faster either...

John


--
John I

http://www.floridapinballforum.com

[ScottinSGFNY]

+1

[Ron - NYP]

I agree that Jack probably underestimated the supplier delays, without
getting into a whole discussion it seems many business's in general don't
have any sense of urgency in this country, especially in the summertime.
Everyone is sick, on holiday, vacation, kids are sick, graduations, parties,
car broke down, excuses excuses excuses. When it comes to relying on 3rd
parties, your always better off doubling your completion time and coming in
early rather than hoping things go smoothly and estimating that things comes
in on time. And maybe, just maybe G.S made a few phone calls to some
suppliers to give them a hard time, I don't know but I'm just guessing that
might be a possibility.

Lets remember Keith got married and had a baby so that probably slowed down
the programming a little. Throw in Murphy's law to the mix. Then ad the fact
that Jack makes everything public, naturally some ideas & feedback from the
general population were used to make the game better. I know Jack wants this
game to be amazing so he kept adding everything but the kitchen sink. He
probably wants to avoid naysayers from knocking any programming glitches and
would prefer to be late than leave the door open for criticism. I find it
interested how a handful of trolls can post a few lines of B.S and goat
everyone into these long threads where people have to "defend" Jack. When
the game comes out, if it's a hit, everyone will forget the delays and all
this B.S (remember BBB?). When it comes out, it comes out, until then, find
something else to do with your time, if your life is that empty that the WOZ
is the only thing you have to look forward to, you probably need to find
other interests.
Ron

--
Pinball Flyer Database
www.nypinball.com/brochures.php


"John I" <zeec...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:John.I...@rrgparchive.com...

[rommy]

::Where is this world where summers are holidays? I don't get any time
off for summer. That ended with school.::


--
rommy

[homebrood]

Yeah all that's easy to say but still, when someone has 7k of your cash, and you have nothing for over a year and a half, it makes you want something, anything that convinces you the game is coming along. The silence lately after all the regular updates is just stirring things up. I do have to say though that I'm pretty concerned about the bulb that's out on the middle lane guide towards the end of that video! I do hope they fix that before shipping! Bad lamp? driver transistor? Software bug? Cheap sockets we're all going to be replacing later? Maybe no socket there at all? We may need a $250 mod for that!
OMG! WTF? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Tom

Tom

[Skeley68]

Pending where you live in this world, some countries i.e Canada call
vacation days, holidays.


--
Skeley68

[Retrogameconnection]

It usually takes an ESTABLISHED pinball company at least 18 months to
manufacture a pinball machine. This company is not established yet and
they are right at 18 months now. So I don't get the complaint that it's
taking a long time.


--
Retrogameconnection

[Joe Grenuk]

I don't have any interest in the theme, don't have one on order, no
dog in the fight, but I wish Jack all the best, cause competition is
good.

But....

A crappy game will be a crappy game forever.

And a late game will be a late game just once.

Which would you prefer?

[snaroff]

Couldn't agree more. Jack has had my money for 2 years and I trust him 100%.

With all the QA issues with Stern machines lately, it's hardly impressive to "knock out" so many pins if you can't do it and maintain some sense of quality. The NIB Stern's I bought in 2004 are way more reliable than the modern day Sterns. Seems like they are working are to give new/negative meaning to NIB! At least when buying from another collector, he can see & play what you are getting.

I'm sure JJP will also have some QA issues, however they are a brand new company. Stern has been churning out the same basic product/platform for years and the quality has gone down while the prices have gone up. Jack is a successful businessman and standup guy. Anyone taking "pot shots" at him is just trying to sir up the pot.

snaroff

[James Lewis]

I don't actually think its taking a long time but we are just excited
and want our game. It takes how long from the time we start hearing
rumors from Stern to the time the unfinished fan layout game hits the
street? Not that long. So this feels like a LOOOOOONG time. As I said,
I'm no ones kiss ass fanboy but I think, going by what I see that it
will be worth the wait. I do hope its a little faster than what it looks
like in the last teaser.

My opinion


--
James Lewis

[John I]

homebrood;1985317 Wrote:
> I'm pretty concerned about the bulb that's out on the middle lane guide
> towards the end of that video! I do hope they fix that before shipping!
> Bad lamp? driver transistor? Software bug? Cheap sockets we're all going
> to be replacing later? Maybe no socket there at all? We may need a $250
> mod for that!
> OMG! WTF? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!
>
> Tom
>
> Tom

I was wondering about that too. Looks like there is no socket or bulb
there. Also, kind of surprised to see them sticking with black rubber.


The LED lights look awesome as does the quality of the playfield
components. That apron with the signatures is still ugly as sin.
Unless I am missing something, that upper right playfield is the lamest
upper playfield ever? And I still haven't bought into the backbox
layout and huge LCD. I sure hope Stern goes with a more standard layout
and a much smaller LCD that is closer to the size of a good old DMD.

Oh well. These updates are all interesting at least. No dog in this
fight - I was out the second the theme was announced. I feel for the
people who are waiting, but I know in the end they won't be
disappointed. I just hope JJP is around for a few more games after this
one, so maybe I can get one with a more palatable theme. I just wonder
how much the prices will go up on the next JJP game?

[pismo...@gmail.com]

Wow... I just read the entire thread for the first time regarding the Canadian LOTR mix-up. I know this is 3 year old news, but I can't believe how Jack treated his customer with name calling and insults.

Seems to be Jack's M.O....I'm always disappointed when he takes petty shots at GS, but that thread went beyond his usual name calling. Telling a customer he is unstable and has mental health issues because he complained of not getting what he paid for? Jacking the price $400 after the purchase and threatening anyone who posts about it on RPG? Saying he doesn't want to sell to just anybody?

I'm thinking that all of WOZ problems and delays can be summed up with one word....

Karma.

[James Lewis]

B bbb bb bu bu but its OK for GS to put out unfinished games with shit
broken out of the box or soon after not to mention my broken record
recycled fan layouts and charge a premium price for it?

Do you actually expect someone who sells games to say: " I have the
newest game from Stern available. Its a piece of shit but here it is."
Isn't that why he started his own company, because he was tired of GS
and his BS tactics and shortcomings that he refused to change.


--
James Lewis

[Ron - NYP]

The game in the video is on a pin cart.

Pinball Flyer Database
www.nypinball.com/brochures.php


"EZ E" <erik....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:EZ.E....@rrgparchive.com...

[John Dayhuff]

Cant believe some of you guys are making such a big deal about waiting this long. Its BBB all over again, you plunk down your money and wait and if you dont like it then get out of it.......its as simple as that. The WOZ wait might be even longer seeing as he has to make boards from scratch where as Gene didn't have to, he used what was sitting on the shelf and it still took Gene 2 1/2 years to deliver, but he did deliver and the game exceeded everyones expectations and many now wish they did pull the trigger on it as the demand and pricing has gone up big time. Gene also said the same things in the beginning during Expo that it would be done in like 7 months or something and I just shook my head and said, no way !! I always new Gene would deliver, its not like he was gonna just run off with everyones money he's a self made millionare and doesn't need pinball money to pay his utility bills. JJP has alot of on his plate and I'm sure he will deliver later then sooner. And NO I dont have my money into this, so this is just a observation from someone on the outside. Just relax and wait, it will happen.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

[Detroitboy]

If all this bitching is going on over a game that is so near to
completion I feel sorry for Skit B and their friends over the Predator
game. They had best change their names and leave town right now.

WOZ supporters voted with their wallets by already buying 1300 games.
All the crybaby whining here is not going to change their minds or get
some lazy suppliers to call in another brother in law to make shit
faster.

Some people need to get a life.......go outside and cut your lawn.


--
Detroitboy

There's no way I pushed that game hard enough to tilt

[pismo...@gmail.com]

Dude... why the constant barrage of hatred for Gary Stern? If it wasn't for him, pinball would be officially DOA.... Instead, three of my favorite pins in my game room are Stern. I've met the man and he's a great guy. He puts out a quality product. (No.. not 100% of the time, but who does?)

You really need to get over your obsession with hating Stern and get your nose far enough out of Jack's nether regions to realize that the finished WOZ is going to be nowhere near as good as it sounded when it was first announced. Every video I've seen so far of WOZ makes it look like a pin that gets boring after a game or two. The upper play field is a joke. I'm not sure any amount of software is going to change that fact.

I hope I'm wrong and Jack puts out a terrific pin. Of course, this is the same guy that promised he would never be late in releasing a pin "unlike my competition".

So far, WOZ looks like a DOG.
I hope I'm wrong as I'm still hoping it's worth purchasing.

[metallik]

> You kidding?  The weather is crap now.  It's a thousand degrees here
> every day.  Come October it just starts getting cool out and I can
> actually go outside and do things other than play pinball!

Heh heh... yea I knew someone from the south would call me out on
this :) When I lived in sough GA for a while, summer was the indoor
season, and we did things outside spring winter and fall. Crazy heat.

Still, from a midwest perspective, the game's delay isn't that
annoying. Only machine I'm really playing right now is SST.

[James Lewis]

Look dude. Every Stern game that comes out I'm hoping it will be a good
one and that I can buy one but as I have said he continues to put out
cookie cutter fan layout games. How many of these does one need. I have
a SM that BTW everyone thought was shit till the code was finished by
Lymann on his own because GS wouldn't do it. I can overlook the
STERNNESS which may be in my head but to me they look cheap compared to
a W/B game. The PFs, to me, are ugly and why do I want to buy a game
that the code may or may not get completed. Also, there is no way in
hell I'm going to jump on a LE game at $7000 plus before I have played
it but he puts out the stripped down version and and then says buy the
LE sight unseen sometimes before the regular version is out. I won't do
it. I do like X-Men. I like the art I like what I see with game play and
the stuff on the PF and layout. I like it to the point that I would
consider selling a A list W/B to pay for one but they were are all sold
out before the pro hit the streets.

WOZ may not be the a awesome game but I guarantee that if I don't like
it Ill be able to sell it without taking a loss.

[PismoArcade]

Well, I will agree with you on the whole LE thing. When I put 5-6 grand
down on a pin, I hate to feel forced to kick in another couple of
thousand for shit that should have been on the game that I bought in the
first place. Last year, I was thisclose to buying a Tron, but the LE
thing pissed me off to the point that I changed my mind.

Re: your issue with the codes. One of my favorite pins is WOF and as
everyone knows, the code was never finished for it. Guess what? It's
still (IMO) a fun, deep game. It's the one pin in my collection that
everyone loves.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and WOZ is much faster and more fun to play
then what has been shown so far.


--
PismoArcade

[James Lewis]

PismoArcade;1985398 Wrote:
> Well, I will agree with you on the whole LE thing. When I put 5-6 grand
> down on a pin, I hate to feel forced to kick in another couple of
> thousand for shit that should have been on the game that I bought in the
> first place. Last year, I was thisclose to buying a Tron, but the LE
> thing pissed me off to the point that I changed my mind.
>

> There you go.

>
> Re: your issue with the codes. One of my favorite pins is WOF and as
> everyone knows, the code was never finished for it. Guess what? It's
> still (IMO) a fun, deep game. It's the one pin in my collection that
> everyone loves.
>

> It doesn't agrivate you though that you paid all that money and he didnt
> bother to finish it? If you like the game the way it is though thats all
> that matters. I would buy a CC ven though its unfinished.

>
> Again, I hope I'm wrong and WOZ is much faster and more fun to play
> then what has been shown so far.
>

> Yea, me to.


--
James Lewis

[Rompen]

On Aug 18, 12:04 pm, James Lewis <zr11...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> WOZ may not be the a awesome game but I guarantee that if I don't like
> it Ill be able to sell it without taking a loss.

That's the idea, however... there are 1000 LEs and an unlimited number
of regular production games produced. WOZ will have one of the
largest production runs in years. I don't think the game will be as
rare as more recent Stern titles, and if they manage to "accidentally"
make a really nice game again, with actually-finished software, Stern
game values could hold up better than JJP's.

If I were Gary Stern, I'd keep doing what I'm doing, but I'd bring in
some more guys to do nothing but improve the software in the last 10+
games. I'd start releasing updates for all sorts of games with crazy
new features - it would completely freak the market out and probably
dramatically drive up the overall price of all Stern games.

If I were Jersey Jack, I'd make damn sure that WOZ is rock solid, with
the best, most feature-packed, deepest software system ever seen. If
WOZ doesn't have really interesting TCP/IP connectivity, they're done
for. I wouldn't spend any time on game #2 until well after WOZ has
been shipped and the kinks are worked out. I'd make WOZ have a ton
of user-configurable features so that people could customize the game
more than anybody else has seen.

People are going to have very high expectations with WOZ, and no doubt
haters are going to hate no matter what, but with the prices they're
charging, and the market not really growing, and the crazy economic
times we're in, if they don't hit it out of the park, there's no
guarantee they can continue to sell games in any significant quantity.

IMO, Stern is in the cat-bird seat. They probably have virtually no
debt, own all their real estate and equipment and can weather the
storm even if they crank out the same game over and over with a
different muscled guy in tights silkscreened on the playfield. It
remains to be seen if JJP can turn a profit in the long term. No
other new pinball manufacturer has been able to yet.

[stevenp]

DugFreez;1985271 Wrote:
>
> ...and here's another interesting read about how Jack handled a customer

> that wasn't happy that his NIB LotR:LE was a Canadian model.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cahavpx
>
> 3 years...how soon people forget.

I missed this the first time around; just caught up with it. My read on
it is, Scott was being a dick about nothing. I saw no problem with
Jack's offering a full refund. FWIW, I was happy to get a LOTR LE NIB
(not a pre-order). It was Canadian and somehow it seems just like my
other 'American' pins.


--
stevenp

[seymour.shabow]

stevenp wrote:
> DugFreez;1985271 Wrote:
>> ...and here's another interesting read about how Jack handled a customer
>> that wasn't happy that his NIB LotR:LE was a Canadian model.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/cahavpx
>>
>> 3 years...how soon people forget.
>
> I missed this the first time around; just caught up with it. My read on
> it is, Scott was being a dick about nothing. I saw no problem with
> Jack's offering a full refund. FWIW, I was happy to get a LOTR LE NIB
> (not a pre-order). It was Canadian and somehow it seems just like my
> other 'American' pins.
>

Yeah, looks like I missed that epic thread in 2009. Those threads are
great in that they give you great insight into whom not to deal with -
not so much Jack, but the other people in the thread - buncha of
whiners. As usual when it comes to bullying on the internet re: "I'm
going to complain on RGP until retailer gives me what I want" and when
the bluff gets called - sue, if you think you have a case.

And for people that think reimport=license to offer $1000 less "just
because" - fuck off!

[Joe Grenuk]

>IMO, Stern is in the cat-bird seat. They probably have virtually no
>debt, own all their real estate and equipment and can weather the
>storm even if they crank out the same game over and over

Boy, I was with you till that last paragraph above. "They probably
have virtually no debt"...What does that mean, and when did Gary open
up the books to you?

Do you remember 2-3 years ago when Hagerty Peterson, a venture capital
firm came in?

[EZ E]

Rompen we're only going by what JJP said! He's the ones that's created
the mess! You forgot about the 13 games last month and 50 in Aug? He set
his only time line and BLEW IT! Time after time! He's just point blank
lied! WTF? The question you should be asking is has JJP ever run a
business, not a sales front where he flips product, a real production
business. The answer is HELL no! You have forgotten all the wild ass
claims he made! It's 19 months now and WHERE is the factory? The people
that are going to put the game together? The support? WHERE? You can't
be pissed when a guy puts on a road shows, claims a time line take
peoples cash and now it's not "my fault!" Man up and own it! Now the
game play looks like it's in slow motion! Working in NJ and having the
boys at the "mid-west campus" isn't cutting it! That's a big mistake!
Are the parts coming from CHINA?


--
EZ E

[JimS]

Good Job EZ! I thought it only happened in the movies, where some
irrational bad guy is trying to derail the good guys at every turn.
You're playing the role brilliantly :-).

Jim

[phishrace]

On Aug 18, 8:08 pm, JimS <jimsou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good Job EZ! I thought it only happened in the movies, where some
> irrational bad guy is trying to derail the good guys at every turn.
> You're playing the role brilliantly :-).

He's the Snidely Whiplash of RGP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhC_JJwlep0#t=142s

-phish

[llabrevlis]

Does anyone know EZ the idiots story, he's like the energizer bunny of
hate when it comes to this subject, creeps into every WOZ thread.
This kind of single minded rancor reminds of the Gary days, in fact he
even writes in the same style. Hmmmmm......

Dale

[Dan Q very much]

LOL I didn't remember that one. Thanks!

As for WOZ, picking on missed soft target dates is just trolling. If a
thousand paid-in-full customers aren't complaining, who else has any
right to?

[Hitch]

Wow, get a life bro...

[pins4fun]

On Aug 17, 11:40 pm, pins4fun <pins4...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 17, 10:48 pm, EZ E <erik.hoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you kidding? Look how slow the play is! It' looks like the video is
> > in slow motion.  OMG I feel so sorry for you guys that purchased the
> > game!!
>

> > --
> > EZ E
> > This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com
>

> Programming the lights should be relatively hassle-free now that the
> color-changing leds under the clear playfield inserts are replaced
> with solid-color ones, while retaining the color-changing ones in
> strategically critical areas.  I think that this new 'scheme' allows
> the various solid-color led lights to co-exist more tolerantly with
> the defining border-colors of the adjacent artwork, just my way of
> lookin at things, so to speak, I'm here to share tattoos and stories,
> that's all.
>
> The end result is fortuitous nevertheless as the vibrant color scheme
> of the playfield appears better defined, more pronounced, and easily
> perceptible during the gameplay, although it's diffucult to say for
> sure from the posted video, and I've heard people say the video
> doesn't do justice to the actual game, again.
>
> Meanwhile, I'm thinking how beautiful this thing is gonna be after its
> evolution is complete, and find myself humming a tune inadvertantly
> stuck in my head, with images of a young Jimi morphing into purple
> haze after his guitar rendition of the star spangled banner at
> Woodstock  ...
>
> Purple haze all in my brain,
> lately things don't seem the same
> Actin' funny but i don't know why
> excuse me while i kiss the sky ....

As I was saying, both Jack and Gary should seriously consider
releasing a new platform commemorative Woodstock pin, without
necessarily waiting until 2019, that is :)

ps Chuck, please don't obsess about me too much, it's only pinball.
Suffice it to say, I'm considerably older than you are, and of no
consequence to you. If you see me around somewhere one of these days,
and I'm sure you'd be underwhelmed, as usual.

[EZ E]

Can't really respond to the time line problems right? It's August,
where's your game! Really where is a game that actually works! So from
E3 to now and the lights come on in attract mode? That only took 2
months! So did the 50 in Aug just get forgotten or was that was just
more BS! You guys are SCREWED!

[homebrood]

Oh wow, I never looked at it that way. Ok, I'll man up and admit it. I got totally reamed on this! Thanks EZ. Hey since you seem to really be the only one here that's living in reality, and not fantasy, I was hoping you might help me out. I know this is asking a lot, but I think, even though it's a huge gamble, you might show a little pity on me.
I'll sell you my place on WOZ for real cheap. How about $300
At least then I'll bet something back...

Let me know and thanks EZ, you're a real swell guy!

Tom

[stevenp]

Even better is that some people equate a NIB Canadian model drop-shipped
direct from Stern, which never crossed a single national border, with a
"reimport" that was abused on location in a foreign country and then
shipped back in a container that leaked some salty water.

[pins4fun]

Sometimes I really fail to comprehend your rationale Erik, as 'Dan Q
very much' already elegantly pointed out,

[cody chunn]

You have really driven the point home that you are an irrational, blubbering
troll. You can stop anytime now and be confident of your place in history.

RE-PLONK

-cody


"EZ E" wrote in message news:EZ.E....@rrgparchive.com...

[JonC]

On Aug 19, 10:15 am, stevenp <steven...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Even better is that some people equate a NIB Canadian model drop-shipped
> direct from Stern, which never crossed a single national border, with a
> "reimport" that was abused on location in a foreign country and then
> shipped back in a container that leaked some salty water.
>
> --
> stevenp
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Really? Who are those people? I'll consider one example enough...

Jon

[seymour.shabow]

Read the thread referenced...... at least the OP was concerned that
sometime in the future, when he went to sell his LOTR, that the buyer
would consider it worth a lot less because it was a Canadian model and
so not pay what it was really worth.

You'll meet those people soon enough, if you do happen to have a
reimport machine for sale, because they'll arrive at your house and say
they won't buy it unless you take hundreds of dollars off it. Ignoring
the actual condition of the machine, they'll base their negotiating on
the belief that reimports are somehow bad instead of looking at the
overall actual condition, regardless of where the machine spent its
life. I'd rather have the reimport if it were in better shape vs. a
domestic model.

Notice that the majority of non-anal retentive people that would use
this tactic STILL WANT TO BUY THE MACHINE! (Despite its being a
"reimport", piece of garbage.....) I'd suspect that they also will use
other bullshit to try and get the price down on a domestic machine as
well - like the old "that rubber is dirty, I want $100 off" tactic.

There's negotiating, and then there's being stupid. The dirty rubber
guy I handed him 2 new flipper rubbers and said, there's your $100. We
all like to negotiate, but I'd sooner take the $100 off from someone
that says "I just don't want to pay the $700 for this - how about $600?
That's what its worth to me" instead of "that rubber is dirty, give me
$100 off" (for $2 in parts and 1 minute of time to replace.....)

Note that I can still respect the truly anal-retentive collector that
really just wants the domestic machine "just because" - I might not
agree with their reasoning, but certainly they can populate their
collections as they see fit. Of course, they're also the same people
that had to have matching serial #'s on boards, even going so far as
committing fraud by CHANGING serial #'s on boards to match. I tend to
steer clear of transactions with this type of collector as they're never
satisfied when buying, and when selling they want way too much money for
what ultimately comes down to nothing that contributes to people that
actually just want to PLAY their machines.

-scott

[JonC]

On Aug 19, 12:23 pm, "seymour.shabow" <seymour.sha...@gmail.com>
wrote:

So, in your opinion he equated a NIB drop-shipped machine with a re-
import that was abused overseas and shipped in a container that leaked
salt water? If so, you have quite the imagination...

Jon

[seymour.shabow]

JonC wrote:
>
> So, in your opinion he equated a NIB drop-shipped machine with a re-
> import that was abused overseas and shipped in a container that leaked
> salt water? If so, you have quite the imagination...
>

Ummmm, no. But he did express that if/when he went to sell the machine
in the future, that the perceived value of it would be less.

BUT there are buyers out there that DO equate any type of reimport as
being in the salt water soaked condition, even if it isn't (which
really, most aren't.)

[EZ E]

Cody I thought you'd crawl back into that hole and never come out after
SRP bitch slapped you. You coming back out now? That was history making.
My poking at WOZ isn't anything compared to the dick knocking you took
from SRP! That's real pinball history you fool! You are the "Troll" you
claim to hate so much!


--
EZ E

[Hitch]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Rompen]

On Aug 18, 8:17 pm, Joe Grenuk <jgre...@aol.com> wrote:
> Boy, I was with you till that last paragraph above. "They probably
> have virtually no debt"...What does that mean, and when did Gary open
> up the books to you?
>
> Do you remember 2-3 years ago when Hagerty Peterson, a venture capital
> firm came in?

I have to assume that in the 30+ years they've been operating, they've
managed to pay off their mortgages and own their equipment outright.
If not, then Gary Stern is nowhere near as competent a businessman as
I would expect.

As far as the venture capital guys.. I'd sure be interested to know
what that was needed for? It's not like Stern did any major changes
to their process that I can see. Was Gary slowly running the company
into the ground or was the market diminishing to the point where he
couldn't sell enough games to cover his expenses? In any case, unless
he took out mortgages on his property I'd expect him to be sitting on
top of some decent assets.

On Aug 18, 9:26 pm, EZ E <erik.hoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rompen we're only going by what JJP said! He's the ones that's created
> the mess! You forgot about the 13 games last month and 50 in Aug? He set
> his only time line and BLEW IT!

I don't recall any specific date or guarantee he made to anybody.
Yea, he personally told me he expected the games to be shipping in
July or August. Obviously that's not happening. I'm not bent out of
shape over it because it's obvious they are making progress, they've
got the team and the resources and are just being delayed by various
things, which are not unexpected.

When people pre-ordered the games, they were not told a specific
delivery date, so nothing has been "blown" per se. I can understand
some people are frustrated that the game isn't out by now, but I
wouldn't think Jack has "blown" anything, nor has he reigned on any
promises or contractual obligations regarding delivery. Maybe he
should be a little more forthcoming about the hold-ups and why?

[JimS]

On Aug 18, 10:57 pm, phishrace <phishr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

> He's the Snidely Whiplash of RGP.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhC_JJwlep0#t=142s
>
> -phish

Perfect!

Jim

[Detroitboy]

Sounds like EZ has butt sores from playing one of Jack's redemption
games at the supermarket. I guess he could'nt get the claw to drop down
on the spongy ball and got the little red tomato instead.

Go cash in a few more cans from the side of the road for another quarter
to put in the machine EZ. Maybe your button pushing skills will improve
by the next time your mother takes you back to Wallmart.


--
Detroitboy

There's no way I pushed that game hard enough to tilt

[greatwichjohn]

I'm ok waiting for my pin. Hopefully by xmas, but if its early 2013
thats ok. At least it woke up Stern to produce better finished pins. Not
100%, but atleast a little higher standard.


--
greatwichjohn

[bobgomezmexi...@gmail.com]

ha. I surmised that if Stern did not put it out, there would be nothing to talk about. I guess I was wrong. Plenty to talk about. It NEVER CAME TO BE. I did not think there would be another producer besides Stern. Bigger deal than we all thought, no?

fuck you Korn.



On Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:57:09 PM UTC-4, Big12bus wrote:
> I heard at TPF that this game was shipping last year, then issues came up. Then it slipped into early spring, then issues came up....Then now we are in the fall. Jack said when "I PUT OUT A DATE...I PLAN TO HOLD TOO IT; NOT LIKE MY COMPETITOR...and then the date slipped..."....What is going on ????
>
>
>
> Bill

[EZ E]

Funny how the masses have completely over looked what's going on at
Stern. They've went from Avaturd LE to ACDC BIBLE/X-men. That's a 180
degree change. Look at the titles people want? Spider-Man, Tron, ACDC,
X-men and a lot of the older Stern's like Ripleys, POTC, IM! Stern's got
all the Stars and is pumping games out the door! $$$$$ With Avengers
coming just wait! Gomez better hit this one out of the park! He needs to
keep the Streak alive at Stern. How many more games can Stern before WOZ
hits the market? 2 or 3? Stern has to be Laughing their Asses off!


--
EZ E

[Joe Grenuk]

>I have to assume that in the 30+ years they've been operating, they've
>managed to pay off their mortgages and own their equipment outright.
>If not, then Gary Stern is nowhere near as competent a businessman as
>I would expect.

Well, assuming doesn't always end us up in the right spot. The
building that houses Stern pinball is owned by an IL LLC named Summit
Warehouse. The principals in that LLC include the former head of Braun
and his daughter. So, based on that, I am going to assume that Stern
rents from them. :) Summit bought the property in 2001 from Duke
Realty.

>As far as the venture capital guys.. I'd sure be interested to know
>what that was needed for? It's not like Stern did any major changes
>to their process that I can see. Was Gary slowly running the company
>into the ground or was the market diminishing to the point where he
>couldn't sell enough games to cover his expenses? In any case, unless
>he took out mortgages on his property I'd expect him to be sitting on
>top of some decent assets.

As a former CFO of a billion-dollar telecom co, here's what I can tell
you about venture capital. Money from them is usually needed for one
of two reasons...to grow a company or to save a company. In either
case, they are usually the last source of capital...when the Amex is
maxed out and there is no more bank financing available. In a private
company like Stern, they become a partner. They just don't stroke the
check and tell Gary "Let us know how things are going from time to
time". They usually assume a disproportionate amount of control in the
firm relative to their equity ownership in the firm.

Does Gary Stern strike you as someone who would like a partner?

Not suggesting that Gary "ran the company into the ground" at all. I
am suggesting that there was probably a need for capital at Stern that
couldn't be fulfilled elsewhere. But 2008 and 2009 were not economic
times that were favorable to businesses like coin op and Stern. In
addition, they did have a four-game run in there with Batman, CSI,
NBA, and 24, just before the investment. And with respect to changes
at Stern since then...they did bring in a lot of new talent. They
adopted a new business model that focused much less attention on
operators and much more on collectors. They made a run at mass-
distribution retail....Sears, Best Buy, Costco. They adopted a new
strategy of "levels" of product...good/better/best, with margins
designed to do the same: low/medium/high, starting with LOTR as the
first LE, designed to create demand (and extra margin) for an
improved, artificially scarce product.

So all in all, to me, it seems like a lot has changed for Stern since
09.