Firepower problems---help please!

[papazit1963]

Hi. Great forum here. I just picked up a working 1980 Williams
Firepower Pinball game last weekend in LA area. Transported it home
(Merced, CA) and it worked fine for a couple of days. Then it went
downhill from there. Here are the symptoms: At power on the top right
solenoid, #6 (ball ejector) keeps firing. It will stop after about 15-30
seconds. Also the sound dosn't always work. Game will not start,
solenoid/lamp test works fine, displays seem fine. In doing some
troubleshooting I noticed that the power input on the sound board is
supposed to have 3 seperate 18v lines coming directly from the
transformer--of these 3 lines, only the 2 outside lines have power and
it's only about 12v. The center line has 0v. My main question is does
this mean the transformer is bad or could a short somewhere else be
causing the transformer to put out the wrong or zero v? I love this game
when it works, and I'm willing to dig in and so some board level repairs
if need be, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


--
papazit1963
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[AVP Pinball Division]

"papazit1963" <mi...@action-computing.com> wrote in message
news:papazit19...@rrgparchive.com...

>
> Hi. Great forum here. I just picked up a working 1980 Williams
> Firepower Pinball game last weekend in LA area. Transported it home
> (Merced, CA) and it worked fine for a couple of days.

Louisiana to California? I would have made sure the game worked properly
before hauling it home.

http://www.pinwiki.com, check the Williams System 6 area.

--
Pistol Pete

[Barry]

You problems are likely related to connectors. Please check:

pinwiki.com

Firepower is a Williams System 6.

Another excellent site/resource is:

firepowerpinball.com

Check for corrosion associated with the batteries on the CPU board.
Hopefully the former owner has corrected this common problem and
installed a remote battery setup.

There is a 40 pin connector used between the driver board and the CPU.
If the female connector on the driver board appears original, it will
need to be replaced. Sometimes reseating this connector will provide
some temporary game play until it dies again. If the connector has been
replaced it will look close to white in color. Also the male connector
on the CPU should be replaced or the male pin solder joints cleaned and
resoldered. This should be covered in the pinwiki information.


--
Barry

[barakandl]

If i remember correctly the power connector on the sound board in a
firepower is the two outside pins are 12v (maybe 18v?) and the center
pin is ground. That way if you plug the connector in upside down it
still works and does not short anything since it is not keyed.

Forgot the 12v/18v You want to check for 5v on the sound board. There
is a voltage regulator on the sound board. top right of the board i
think. Probe the test point for 5v.

i have said it a bunch, but the connectors are garbage on this era of
williams games. From the shitty IDC connectors to the cut short header
pins. Lots of work needs to be done for it to be reliable.

Make sure the saucer switch is gapped correctly, wires are securely on.
Check / reflow the solder, on the header pins, and check the switch
female connectors.


--
barakandl

barakandl aka Andrew
----------------------------
Bally & Stern MPUs for sale. -17,-35,-100,-200 Rebuilt and working
100%.
$90 shipped with game roms. Email me barakandl at gmail.com

[viperrwk]

ROM sockets too. My FP loses speech occasionally because of the crappy
ROM sockets on the speech module. Turn machine off, press on ROMs
and volia - speech comes back. Lot of work needs to be done to make this
game reliable.

As a side note my wife who was raised in Merced is glad to hear one of
her favorite pinballs is back in her hometown.

viperrwk


--
viperrwk

[ch...@team-em.com]

Lots of questions...

Sound board power...power is derived from two 9VAC center tapped transformer secondary outputs. Put them together, and you get 18VAC.

That vintage board set is pronged to cracked header pins. The PinWiki has instructions on how to deal with that. Sound boards are especially prone to this as there isn't sufficient strain relief on the connectors.

Kickout hole...the game is probably reading a switch closure for the hole. Place the game in switch test. Is the game reporting that switch as closed? Adjust switch with game OFF.

To make a System 6 game reliable after, since it's 30 years old, you have to replace the male/female 40-pin header and all of the old sockets. It takes time and expertise, but there is no way around it if you want your game to be solid. Two sites you should become familiar with...

www.pinwiki.com
www.greatplainselectronics.com

Tanks for dropping by. There are some very smart folks here, all willing to help.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

[ch...@team-em.com]

[homebrood]

Well he did say it worked fine for a couple of days once he got it home so it probably did work properly when he bought it.

tom

[papazit1963]

AVP Pinball Division;1982397 Wrote:
> "papazit1963" <mi...@action-computing.com> wrote in message

> news:papazit1963.5h3qwm (AT) rrgparchive (DOT) com...

> >
> > Hi. Great forum here. I just picked up a working 1980 Williams
> > Firepower Pinball game last weekend in LA area. Transported it home
> > (Merced, CA) and it worked fine for a couple of days.
>
> Louisiana to California? I would have made sure the game worked properly
>
> before hauling it home.
>
> http://www.pinwiki.com, check the Williams System 6 area.
>
> --
> Pistol Pete

LA as in Los Angeles. Only a few hours away.

[papazit1963]

LA as in Los Angeles. Only a few hours away.

[papazit1963]

Very cool...


--
papazit1963

[papazit1963]

viperrwk;1982449 Wrote:
> ROM sockets too. My FP loses speech occasionally because of the crappy
> ROM sockets on the speech module. Turn machine off, press on ROMs
> and volia - speech comes back. Lot of work needs to be done to make this
> game reliable.
>
> As a side note my wife who was raised in Merced is glad to hear one of
> her favorite pinballs is back in her hometown.
>
> viperrwk

Very cool!


--
papazit1963

[papazit1963]

Awesome advise guys! You've all confirmed my next project. I used to
do a lot of board level repairs/soldering, etc. but we're talking 15
years ago. I ordered some new connectors, transistors, tools and I'm
ready for the challange. Thanks much for all the great advice, links
and encouragement! I will keep you posted on my progress!:D

[Hans]

Basic work on a System 6 is going to be the stuff already mentioned.

Replace the 40pin interconnect on the driver board, and possibly the
CPU board if the pins are too short. IF you have good pin length on
the backside of the CPU board, just clearing the old solder and
applying fresh is usually enough. You'll also want to replace ALL
the sockets on the CPU board. That's 6 ram, 1 rom, 1 CPU at minimum.

Inspect all the header pins. Williams liked to 'shave' the backsides
of the boards, which unfortunately backfired. It means the pins were
cut too short to have a good solder joint, and cracked solder joints
occur absurdly often. If the pins are shaved too short, and the
solder joints are cracked, just replace the connector and save
yourself months of annoyances. Use the square pin breakaway headers,
with the locking ramps if so desired.

You'll also want to get well acquainted with a molex crimper. Any
time something starts acting intermittent, and it's an original
connector, just replace it with a fresh one. Those 30 year old IDC
connectors fail pretty easily. Use the trifurcon pins, for better
long term reliability.

Game won't start if it doesn't detect 3 balls in the trough/shooter
lane. But it will never tell you that it's the reason why it's not
starting. Combined with the firing outhole, you've got switch issues
to take care of first.

-Hans

[papazit1963]

Thanks Hans. I've got my "list" of to do's. Just waiting on some
parts/tools to arrive. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again!

[rap...@aim.com]

My Firepower machine does not activate when I push the game start button. Would this be a simple shorting out issue?

[barakandl]

It probably does not know where all the balls are. Make sure the ball trough switches all work.

[dothedoo]

+1 on the trough switches. Make sure all 3 balls are in the trough and test closure on the switches with the ball, not with your fingers. This is probably why the saucer up top keeps firing on power up.