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ACDC - anyone install white rubber yet?
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John I
Jun 14, 2012, 8:03:27 AM6/14/12
to
I need to install my Pinbits plastic protectors this weekend. I figure
I will install white rubber while I have it torn down. Most machines
look and play better to me with white rubber. Just wondering if anyone
who has done this can comment in how it looks and plays?
Thanks! BiB #274 by the way.
John
--
John I
http://www.floridapinballforum.com
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
Mike Schudel
Jun 14, 2012, 9:02:11 AM6/14/12
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"John I" <zeec...@earthlink.net> wrote in message...
LE games should have come this way IMHO.
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
Gameroom Video: http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
> I need to install my Pinbits plastic protectors this weekend. I figure
> I will install white rubber while I have it torn down. Most machines
> look and play better to me with white rubber. Just wondering if anyone
> who has done this can comment in how it looks and plays?
Why didn't these ship with white rubber rings to begin with? Premiums and
> I will install white rubber while I have it torn down. Most machines
> look and play better to me with white rubber. Just wondering if anyone
> who has done this can comment in how it looks and plays?
LE games should have come this way IMHO.
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
Gameroom Video: http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
no_credit_dot
Jun 14, 2012, 9:50:08 AM6/14/12
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I put white on my BIB. It looks fantastic and plays even better.
Put the plastic protectors on it right aways while you are at it.
mike
Put the plastic protectors on it right aways while you are at it.
mike
jdur...@gmail.com
Jun 14, 2012, 10:02:42 AM6/14/12
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I just did it yesterday in most places.
A real pain. The machine is not easy to access the rubber areas. Even The cannon must be removed to even get to the right sling area.
But happy i did it (still have a few spots to do because i ran out of smaller rubber).
A real pain. The machine is not easy to access the rubber areas. Even The cannon must be removed to even get to the right sling area.
But happy i did it (still have a few spots to do because i ran out of smaller rubber).
John I
Jun 14, 2012, 10:42:19 AM6/14/12
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Yeah the plastic protectors look like a bear to install, so might as
well do the rubber at the same time.
Thanks for the inputs; will definitely go with white.
John
phishrace
Jun 14, 2012, 1:03:52 PM6/14/12
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On Jun 14, 6:02 am, "Mike Schudel" <schud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why didn't these ship with white rubber rings to begin with? Premiums and
> LE games should have come this way IMHO.
Because the game designer designs the game for a specific color of
> Why didn't these ship with white rubber rings to begin with? Premiums and
> LE games should have come this way IMHO.
rubber. Steve Ritchie has discussed this here in the past. Future
games may come with white rubbers, but you won't see black rubber on
pros and white on LE's.
-phish
schudel5
Jun 14, 2012, 1:26:35 PM6/14/12
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"phishrace" <phis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
no lower pf on ACDC) that it would be easy to specify white vs. black rubber
as another change to make the game more "premium". Especially when you are
spending the extra coin for the upscale versions.
>Because the game designer designs the game for a specific color of
>rubber. Steve Ritchie has discussed this here in the past. Future
>games may come with white rubbers, but you won't see black rubber on
>pros and white on LE's.
Really? Why not? There seems to be enough of a game difference (lower pf,
>rubber. Steve Ritchie has discussed this here in the past. Future
>games may come with white rubbers, but you won't see black rubber on
>pros and white on LE's.
no lower pf on ACDC) that it would be easy to specify white vs. black rubber
as another change to make the game more "premium". Especially when you are
spending the extra coin for the upscale versions.
John I
Jun 14, 2012, 1:36:34 PM6/14/12
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schudel5;1956589 Wrote:
> "phishrace" <phishrace (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message...
surprised me. Personally the only game I prefer black on is Scared
Stiff.
John
Sent with Tapatalk
phishrace
Jun 14, 2012, 4:01:15 PM6/14/12
to
On Jun 14, 10:26 am, "schudel5" <schud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "phishrace" <phishr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
which color rubbers to use. White rubbers are bouncier than black
rubbers. A game designer has to account for this. If they did offer a
rubber color option in the future, I would hope most designers would
recommend a specific color for optimum preformance.
By dumb luck, I have 3 games built in the last 20 years that call for
both white and black rubbers. EATPM, FGY and Ripley's. I run them all
factory except FGY, which also has blue flipper and sling rubbers. Any
other games that call for both black and white rubbers?
-phish
> "phishrace" <phishr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
> >Because the game designer designs the game for a specific color of
> >rubber. Steve Ritchie has discussed this here in the past. Future
> >games may come with white rubbers, but you won't see black rubber on
> >pros and white on LE's.
>
> Really? Why not? There seems to be enough of a game difference (lower pf,
> no lower pf on ACDC) that it would be easy to specify white vs. black rubber
> as another change to make the game more "premium". Especially when you are
> spending the extra coin for the upscale versions.
Good game designers consider more than appearance when they decide
> >rubber. Steve Ritchie has discussed this here in the past. Future
> >games may come with white rubbers, but you won't see black rubber on
> >pros and white on LE's.
>
> Really? Why not? There seems to be enough of a game difference (lower pf,
> no lower pf on ACDC) that it would be easy to specify white vs. black rubber
> as another change to make the game more "premium". Especially when you are
> spending the extra coin for the upscale versions.
which color rubbers to use. White rubbers are bouncier than black
rubbers. A game designer has to account for this. If they did offer a
rubber color option in the future, I would hope most designers would
recommend a specific color for optimum preformance.
By dumb luck, I have 3 games built in the last 20 years that call for
both white and black rubbers. EATPM, FGY and Ripley's. I run them all
factory except FGY, which also has blue flipper and sling rubbers. Any
other games that call for both black and white rubbers?
-phish
schudel5
Jun 14, 2012, 4:13:35 PM6/14/12
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"phishrace" <phis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
>By dumb luck, I have 3 games built in the last 20 years that call for
>both white and black rubbers. EATPM, FGY and Ripley's. I run them all
>factory except FGY, which also has blue flipper and sling rubbers. Any
>other games that call for both black and white rubbers?
I'm pretty sure Pat Lawlor specified white rings in all his games, at least
>both white and black rubbers. EATPM, FGY and Ripley's. I run them all
>factory except FGY, which also has blue flipper and sling rubbers. Any
>other games that call for both black and white rubbers?
while at WMS, not sure about his Stern designed games. Other than Lawlor, I
can't think of too many games in the last 20 years that shipped with white
from the factory.
frenchy
Jun 14, 2012, 4:36:52 PM6/14/12
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> Really? Why not? There seems to be enough of a game difference (lower pf,> no lower pf on ACDC) that it would be easy to specify white vs. black rubber> as another change to make the game more "premium". Especially when you are> spending the extra coin for the upscale versions.>
Yeah but then having yet another version (or even more than one more)
to have to ship/stock separately in the box by Stern and the
distributors... LE black, LE white, Pro black, Pro white, etc? Stern
isn't requiring every game be specifically ordered by the customer,
they are allowing for someone to order one that is in stock at their
distributor as well. So that's like nearly doubling the complications
of having different versions for a comparatively minor thing like
rubber color preference. Come on.
Now if the super-duper model came with the opposite color rings in the
goodie bag, that would be nice. Anybody who is obsessed enough to
worry about the ring color being not quite right for them is going to
enjoy swapping them out themselves anyway, heh. : )
hobs
Jun 14, 2012, 4:50:58 PM6/14/12
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Yep,
Changed every last one of them . Looks super and plays the same.
Hobbs
Changed every last one of them . Looks super and plays the same.
Hobbs
cody chunn
Jun 14, 2012, 5:59:45 PM6/14/12
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That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
designers get black.
White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice made
by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
for a longer period of time.
Gameplay on a machine fitted with black is slower, less lively and generally
easier and boring so for any designer to choose black is very difficult to
understand. That's why Pat demanded white...it's simply more fun.
-cody
"phishrace" wrote in message
news:34204b27-6a07-4291...@j10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
phishrace
Jun 14, 2012, 8:53:36 PM6/14/12
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On Jun 14, 2:59 pm, "cody chunn" <cchu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
> they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
> designers get black.
Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
> they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
> designers get black.
with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
stock two colors is dead wrong.
> White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice made
> by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
> for a longer period of time.
> Gameplay on a machine fitted with black is slower, less lively and generally
> easier and boring so for any designer to choose black is very difficult to
> understand.
in the past. Google it and you might learn something. When you throw
out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
decent player, it doesn't hold much water. Maybe if you post a list of
all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
posts if needed.
-phish
cody chunn
Jun 14, 2012, 10:46:38 PM6/14/12
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"Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
stock two colors is dead wrong."
Interesting that you chose to edit this line out:
with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
stock two colors is dead wrong."
'That's why Pat demanded white...it's simply more fun'.
So how many games since Pat left has had white rings?
> White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice
> made
> by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
> for a longer period of time.
"That's your opinion and I disagree."
"As I mentioned above, Steve Ritchie has posted about this topic here
in the past. Google it and you might learn something."
huckster. You don't expect him to say: "Yeah, black rings suck, but that's
all Gary orders, so I have to work with that," or "I'd love to have white on
the game, but it'll still play great," or "It'll be crappy in black but when
you fit it with white, look out!"
"When you throw
out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
decent player, it doesn't hold much water."
learn something.
And B, white rings *are* better if you like more ball action. Livelier
bounce and better grip than black both add to the ball action. That is a
fact. Red flipper rings have more bounce and grip than black. Fact. These
result in more frenetic ball action and that is integral to exciting pinball
play. Black rings have less of all of that. You don't have to be a tourney
winner to understand that, but thanks for the attempt at condescension.
"Maybe if you post a list of
all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
posts if needed."
as a player and then decide if can have any reputation or not. Maybe then
you'll allow me to comment. I didn't know you had to be a tourney winner to
post. My bad.
-cody
"phishrace" wrote in message
scottm
Jun 15, 2012, 12:25:33 AM6/15/12
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them a week or so ago and Pam said that they were still in the test
stage .
What areas do they protect ?
hobs
Jun 15, 2012, 6:06:47 AM6/15/12
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Under the new products.
http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=528
Hobbs
http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=528
Hobbs
Aeneas - www.flippers.be
Jun 15, 2012, 7:17:14 AM6/15/12
to
> When you throw
> out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> decent player, it doesn't hold much water. Maybe if you post a list of
> all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> posts if needed.
>
> -phish
'Better' is subjective.
> out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> decent player, it doesn't hold much water. Maybe if you post a list of
> all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> posts if needed.
>
> -phish
For most people, pinball is about 'the ball is wild'. White rings are than better, softer red flipper rubbers.. More action, less predictability.
Tournament players generally don't like this. The less predictable a game is, the more difficult to get high scores.. So most tournament players prefer black flipper rubers to do drop catches, have perfect control of where the pinball goes, ..
That's better for them as it decreases the risks and gets you high scores..
But a pinball machine where everything is predictable and you cannot miss a shot, takes the fun out of pinball imo..
Aeneas.
-- http://www.flippers.be/
Steve
Jun 17, 2012, 3:48:17 AM6/17/12
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Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here. If I am a "huckster that will say anything to put a positive spin on his games" then you are a worthless POS who says anything on his mind!
What an insult!
Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in person.
The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good play. White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively", but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game is not just controlled by rubber, boy!
If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and durometer of the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!! You have relegated yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else outside of your own little world.
Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common sense will be disrepected and left in the dust.
Steve
What an insult!
Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in person.
The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good play. White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively", but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game is not just controlled by rubber, boy!
If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and durometer of the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!! You have relegated yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else outside of your own little world.
Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common sense will be disrepected and left in the dust.
Steve
Pinballed
Jun 17, 2012, 4:01:55 AM6/17/12
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I LOVED reading this. I'm so fucking tired of Cody's constant know-it-
all like posts that usually amount to a hill of beans anyways..yet
theres never a short supply of smugness.
I always defend proper rubber that the designer intended for his pins.
ALWAYS. THATS the way they were intended. I KNOW that. It doesnt take
a brain surgeon...well...in most cases. And Steve's damn right. Its
not the rubber that makes his games fast. Its akin to those guys who
jack up the angles of their machines...used to see these clowns brag
about the two by fours under back legs thinking they made their
machines harder when in actual fact all they've done was eliminate
side to side bounce, doesnt matter WHAT rubber they have anymore at
that point...fucking tools that they are...and they end up acheiving
the opposite of what they've set out to do and have made the games
easier.
Cody, you got schooled. Go sit in the corner now
Stan
all like posts that usually amount to a hill of beans anyways..yet
theres never a short supply of smugness.
I always defend proper rubber that the designer intended for his pins.
ALWAYS. THATS the way they were intended. I KNOW that. It doesnt take
a brain surgeon...well...in most cases. And Steve's damn right. Its
not the rubber that makes his games fast. Its akin to those guys who
jack up the angles of their machines...used to see these clowns brag
about the two by fours under back legs thinking they made their
machines harder when in actual fact all they've done was eliminate
side to side bounce, doesnt matter WHAT rubber they have anymore at
that point...fucking tools that they are...and they end up acheiving
the opposite of what they've set out to do and have made the games
easier.
Cody, you got schooled. Go sit in the corner now
Stan
cody chunn
Jun 17, 2012, 10:25:17 AM6/17/12
to
"Steve" wrote in message
news:529ae905-383a-4874...@googlegroups.com...
>Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here. If I am a "huckster that
>will say anything to put a positive spin on his games" then you are a
> >worthless POS who says anything on his mind!
>What an insult!
anyone, just that you have a knack for complimenting your work.
>Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted
>viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you
> >need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in
>person.
>The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good
>play.
rings for "best play", disregarding "long wear" I think they would be more
fun.
>White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively",
>but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game
> >is not just controlled by rubber, boy!
guides, layout angles and ball returns/feeds have everything to do with
speed. The rings come into play when the ball is bouncing around wild in the
lower part of the field and around bumpers and such. Just because a game is
fast doesn't mean it's fun. No Fear is an example of that. Again, no offense
intended.
>If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get
>your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
profoundly admire your career as a designer and you as a person (well, 'till
now).
>It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber
>we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and >durometer of
>the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can
>choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!! >You have relegated
>yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
black rings over white. They suck. IMO. Except to sacrifice "better" play
for longer life and dirt concealment. And since they never break or show
dirt, they never get cleaned or replaced and then the games REALLY play like
crap.
>The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else
>outside of your own little world.
use and it seemed logical enough to me.
>Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old
>posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common >sense
>will be disrepected and left in the dust.
management? Sorry I pissed you off, I meant no disrespect. Only that you
promote your games very enthusiastically and wouldn't intentionally make a
negative comment about one regarding an aspect that was out of your control.
I guess that is deserving of the outrage. Still don't understand why you
would choose black, though, unless you had no choice.
Please don't stab me if you ever see me at a show again. I will try to stay
away from you. Really.
>Steve
-cody
addam
Jun 17, 2012, 11:00:52 AM6/17/12
to
Can someone please post a couple pics of yours with white rubbers? I'd like to see one done before I dig into mine!!
seymour.shabow
Jun 17, 2012, 11:22:06 AM6/17/12
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Complicating things at this point is today's black and white rubber that
have the same durometer. Some suppliers have white or black with the
same hardness, making the white rubber play like black.
But given conventional white rubber (softer), black rubber being harder
should play faster since it's reacting quicker. The thing about soft
white rubber I like is the spin it imparts to the ball making it wilder.
I think Korn needs to do a video testing speed of ball off white vs.
black.....
It's just another variable that can be tuned on a game. (color of
rubber); no one's denying the ability of a game owner to change anything
on their game for the better (or worse) in other's opinions.
have the same durometer. Some suppliers have white or black with the
same hardness, making the white rubber play like black.
But given conventional white rubber (softer), black rubber being harder
should play faster since it's reacting quicker. The thing about soft
white rubber I like is the spin it imparts to the ball making it wilder.
I think Korn needs to do a video testing speed of ball off white vs.
black.....
It's just another variable that can be tuned on a game. (color of
rubber); no one's denying the ability of a game owner to change anything
on their game for the better (or worse) in other's opinions.
John I
Jun 17, 2012, 11:12:45 AM6/17/12
to
Steve;1957771 Wrote:
> Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here.
handed out in the history of this group. Thanks Steve.
Back on topic...
In the past I have always installed white rubber because it seems
livelier and just as important: it looks better IMO. I have been doing
a lot of thinking on this subject recently after installing new black
rubber in a Scared Stiff. Normally I get used machines (this is my
second NIB - WPT was first) that have old black rubber in them that is
hard and plays dead. I replace it with new white rubber and think "wow,
what a difference, I hate that black stuff." Truth is that the black
rubber in my ACDC BiB is VERY lively. I'm not sure who makes this stuff
for Stern, but to me it plays just like white rubber.
So this explains why I started this thread. I have read and taken into
consideration Steve's previous posts on this subject and rather than
just automatically ejecting the black and putting in white I have
actually stopped and thought about it for a while and wanted to get
opinions from the group.
In the end I will be installing the white rubber, because I think it
will look better and based on how bouncy the new Stern black rubber is I
don't think gameplay will change one way or the other. If I wasn't
already going in to install the plastic protectors, I would just leave
the black.
On the subject of protectors... Obviously they serve a purpose on a
lightning fast game like ACDC, but they also really make the game look
better to me. Something about the way they draw the light out and
extend the plastic looks really cool. With the spectacular tri-color GI
lighting in ACDC BiB I can't wait to see how the laser cut edges look
all lit up.
One other note that gave me pause on this change out. I set up this
game in my living room, turned it on and have played many games without
the slightest problem. The out-of-box quality of this game is amazing.
Every last detail of this machine is tweaked just right. As a
perfectionist myself it is amazing that I have not had to pull the glass
off one time to adjust anything. I only hope it goes back together as
well as it came from the factory! :-)
In the end, the rubber color and/or protectors are easily reversible by
the next owner. In the case of my BiB #274, there may not be a "next
owner" until I am six feet under.
Unboxing pictures:
http://tinyurl.com/cbf4cae
chuck
Jun 17, 2012, 11:15:11 AM6/17/12
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You spend way too much time arguing that your opinion is fact. White or Black rubber being "more fun" is purely subjective.
seymour.shabow
Jun 17, 2012, 11:34:50 AM6/17/12
to
phishrace wrote:
> On Jun 14, 2:59 pm, "cody chunn" <cchu...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
>> they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
>> designers get black.
>
> Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
> stock two colors is dead wrong.
>
>> White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice made
>> by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
>> for a longer period of time.
>
> That's your opinion and I disagree.
>
Look at the flyer for Hook - DE was calling out the "never wear" rubbers
> On Jun 14, 2:59 pm, "cody chunn" <cchu...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
>> they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
>> designers get black.
>
> Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
> stock two colors is dead wrong.
>
>> White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice made
>> by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
>> for a longer period of time.
>
> That's your opinion and I disagree.
>
(although they might be referring only to the flipper rubbers.....)
Unless you're only calling out Cody's comment on "white/red plays
better" - which is of course an opinion.
>> Gameplay on a machine fitted with black is slower, less lively and generally
>> easier and boring so for any designer to choose black is very difficult to
>> understand.
>
> As I mentioned above, Steve Ritchie has posted about this topic here
> in the past. Google it and you might learn something. When you throw
> out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> decent player, it doesn't hold much water.
> Maybe if you post a list of
> all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> posts if needed.
>
someone's ability to comment on their impression of how games play with
black vs. white rubber? Don't be elitist.
John I
Jun 24, 2012, 2:44:24 PM6/24/12
to
addam;1957867 Wrote:
> Can someone please post a couple pics of yours with white rubbers? I'd
> like to see one done before I dig into mine!!
time as the plastic protectors. I didn't have to remove the left ramp
and I only had to loosen the right ramp to get a little room under the
back side. I was able to slip the right sling rubber over the cannon
very easily.
Some of the plastics seems a little overly tightened at the factory and
were starting to bend. I'm glad I got the plastic protectors in early
to keep them nice, flat and unchipped.
The rubber and plastic protectors look really great, and as I expected
the game play did not seem to change. The white may be a bit bouncier,
but the Stern black rubber was really bouncy to begin with. I really
love the way the plastic protectors catch the light and give the
plastics a glowing "matted" look.
I added a few pictures to the end of my unboxing album to show what the
white rubbers and protectors look like:
Steve
Jun 30, 2012, 1:16:02 AM6/30/12
to
Your game looks great, John!
Steve
Steve
Steve
Jun 30, 2012, 1:13:22 AM6/30/12
to
You can't call me a huckster without expecting to be stabbed! The "Really" you added was a nice touch! :<)) And I over-reacted!!!! I did. Sorry.
Seriously though, I am a little tired of your coming off as a the definitive pinball authority and inside man for your last 100 posts. I know you are and have been a fan of pinball, but you have no idea about what goes on at our company, nor do you know what or why decisions are made. You guess, but your guesses are nearly always incorrect.
Let me make it clear that owners and operators can install any color of rubber they want on their games. When I choose rubber for my designs, I look at the play carefully. White rubbers are more lively, but they don't last as long as black, and the black ones don't show dirt like the white ones do. Just because they are black doesn't mean they don't have to be cleaned!!! They need cleaning when you clean your game.
My games are generally fast and lively enough that I don't lose much when choosing black because it's a little more reliable over a longer period of time. I have seen white mini-post rubbers wear in a couple of weeks on my games, so I won't install them. In the case of BK2K I mixed black and white, with white on the W-A-R lanes for a nicer and more frequent delivery to the upper right flipper. They were not exposed to high-powered flipper shots, or hard wear, and really make a big difference.
No one can say that "white rubber is more fun than black rubber" and expect me to take it seriously. It is your opinion and nothing more. And a lot of people really like No Fear, just not you. And it's OK. I can't make everyone happy all the time, but I try anyway!!!
Whether you meant to disrespect me or not, you did, so just saying that you didn't mean has no effect. I have not disrespected you ever before I reacted to your comments.
I can forgive and forget if you can, Cody. I don't want to be guilty of having "Yetterben Disease" that results in post after post of insults and spewed hate and bad vibes.
I am over being a huckster, and I hope you recover soon from the stab wound. :<))
Steve
cody chunn
Jun 30, 2012, 9:05:26 AM6/30/12
to
My apologies, Steve. I have no animosity toward you or your games...or
Stern...or Gary. I should not have used "huckster", but that was the only
term to come to mind. It was an unfortunate choice.
I did not realize I was being a know-it-all or presumptuous in my last
hundred posts. I would have thought most of them were attempts to help
people fix stuff.
I suppose I'm still going to guess about stuff that happens at Stern or
JJack or wherever. I didn't think I was presenting my opinion as anything
else than that, but perhaps.
No hard feelings.
-cody
PS: white rings are better than black! :0)
"Steve" wrote in message
news:1f50a549-4ccc-4d66...@googlegroups.com...
Stern...or Gary. I should not have used "huckster", but that was the only
term to come to mind. It was an unfortunate choice.
I did not realize I was being a know-it-all or presumptuous in my last
hundred posts. I would have thought most of them were attempts to help
people fix stuff.
I suppose I'm still going to guess about stuff that happens at Stern or
JJack or wherever. I didn't think I was presenting my opinion as anything
else than that, but perhaps.
No hard feelings.
-cody
PS: white rings are better than black! :0)
"Steve" wrote in message
news:1f50a549-4ccc-4d66...@googlegroups.com...
Rob T
Jul 4, 2012, 4:04:23 PM7/4/12
to
laughing so hard!
Thanks Steve! :D
--
Rob T
Tracelifter
Jul 4, 2012, 10:33:54 PM7/4/12
to
What a blow...from the king of flow.
That was epic.
Eric
Filename:-----------> busey_clapping.gif
Link to attached PIC: http://rgparchive.com/rgpforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1266
--
Tracelifter
Gerry
Jul 4, 2012, 11:08:48 PM7/4/12
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>
> - Show quoted text -
Steve..right on brother !
some people just dont get it !
And BTW i love your games...Gerry
MrBally
Jul 5, 2012, 12:47:48 AM7/5/12
to
Better than a PLONK!
Pinball Guy
Jul 5, 2012, 4:16:28 AM7/5/12
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I do not know what all the fuss is over,
I always change Black rubbers to White, as I feel it just makes t he
games looks lighter and cleaner.
Colored sleeve posts to match area on playfield, Add bling Mirrored
Balls and Press Play ;)
To easy
I always change Black rubbers to White, as I feel it just makes t he
games looks lighter and cleaner.
Colored sleeve posts to match area on playfield, Add bling Mirrored
Balls and Press Play ;)
To easy
EZ SLEEZE E
Jul 6, 2012, 11:38:32 PM7/6/12
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Chunuts you just got your ass handed to you! Smooooth move! Looks like
you got the retarded "PLONK!" LOSER!
you got the retarded "PLONK!" LOSER!
Terrapin Mark
Jul 7, 2012, 12:25:35 AM7/7/12
to
fun game!
Winball_Pizard
Jul 7, 2012, 3:01:12 AM7/7/12
to
Here's a stupid question and a really stupid place to ask it but
uhhhhh... do white rubbers have a larger outside diameter than black
rubbers? I always feel like my inlanes get smaller when I have white
rubbers in my games. I actually remove white rubbers from any game I buy
and install black regardless of condition :eek:
--
Winball_Pizard
Winball_Pizard
Jul 7, 2012, 3:03:23 AM7/7/12
to
Oh and Steve posts on RGP?! How cool is that! You kick ass Steve! I love
my Getaway!
gbi...@gmail.com
Jul 7, 2012, 4:45:05 AM7/7/12
to
If this was a moderated group Cumm Dumpster would have been banned
years ago. Thanks for the laughs.
-Gregg B.
years ago. Thanks for the laughs.
-Gregg B.
jayhawkai
Jul 7, 2012, 4:57:34 AM7/7/12
to
Winball_Pizard;1967496 Wrote:
> Here's a stupid question and a really stupid place to ask it but
> uhhhhh... do white rubbers have a larger outside diameter than black
> rubbers? I always feel like my inlanes get smaller when I have white
> rubbers in my games. I actually remove white rubbers from any game I buy
> and install black regardless of condition :eek:
slingshot hits, so I think you may be on to something.
--
jayhawkai
Pinster68
Jul 7, 2012, 5:57:18 AM7/7/12
to
That was an epic bitch slap Steve, and quite entertaining.
More importantly I received a proper education from the right source.
Thanks!
Every time I change my rubber I'll be thinking of this post. Wait, that
doesn't sound right.
Brian
--
Pinster68
Gerry
Jul 7, 2012, 9:53:50 AM7/7/12
to
EZ SLEEZE E
Jul 7, 2012, 9:54:23 AM7/7/12
to
Go back in your hole MARK with Cody!
bigboss
Jul 7, 2012, 10:30:30 AM7/7/12
to
jayhawkai;1967503 Wrote:
> When I changed to white rubbers on IM, I started getting phantom
> slingshot hits, so I think you may be on to something.
because of the color of the rubber. You clearly had the slingshot
rubbers too tight so that the smallest of vibration was triggering the
slingshot switch. A quick adjustment of the leaf switches should solve
that.
--
bigboss
Terrapin Mark
Jul 7, 2012, 10:38:13 AM7/7/12
to
The two AC/DC games that Trent and Donny had at the launch party were
standard (black) but played awfully fast.
Mark
standard (black) but played awfully fast.
Mark
EZ SLEEZE E
Jul 7, 2012, 1:14:49 PM7/7/12
to
PLONK!
phishrace
Jul 7, 2012, 1:34:05 PM7/7/12
to
On Jul 7, 10:14 am, EZ SLEEZE E <erikhoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
...
As much as I disagree with Cody on certain topics, he does try to help
folks here whenever he can. You, on the other hand, haven't helped
anyone here as far as I can tell. Your rants, including every reply in
this thread, add nothing to the discussion. You could learn something
from Cody. It's okay to rant here now and then, but you better back it
up by making regular positive contributions. HTH
-phish
...
As much as I disagree with Cody on certain topics, he does try to help
folks here whenever he can. You, on the other hand, haven't helped
anyone here as far as I can tell. Your rants, including every reply in
this thread, add nothing to the discussion. You could learn something
from Cody. It's okay to rant here now and then, but you better back it
up by making regular positive contributions. HTH
-phish
EZ SLEEZE E
Jul 7, 2012, 1:51:06 PM7/7/12
to
You're welcome to your opinions! They aren't fact!
mECHsLAVE
Jul 7, 2012, 4:55:07 PM7/7/12
to
LOL @ Chunn, your smarmy little insults finally caught up with you. ;) That was an absolutely historic smackdown!! You obviously know nothing of the history of Steve as a designer if you call him a 'huckster.' The dude kicks in doors, screams in faces, and whatever else he needs to do to make the game he wants to make. You need to do a little research into Steve's history in pinball, including his recent history at Stern. There may exist some valid criticisms of Steve, but that 'huckster' statement was pure ignorance.
This thread is just one of those insta-classics which come around once every year or two. LOL I love it!
On Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:48:17 AM UTC-4, Steve wrote:
> Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here. If I am a "huckster that will say anything to put a positive spin on his games" then you are a worthless POS who says anything on his mind!
>
> What an insult!
>
> Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in person.
>
> The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good play. White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively", but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game is not just controlled by rubber, boy!
>
> If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
>
> It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and durometer of the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!! You have relegated yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
>
> The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else outside of your own little world.
>
> Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common sense will be disrepected and left in the dust.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
This thread is just one of those insta-classics which come around once every year or two. LOL I love it!
On Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:48:17 AM UTC-4, Steve wrote:
> Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here. If I am a "huckster that will say anything to put a positive spin on his games" then you are a worthless POS who says anything on his mind!
>
> What an insult!
>
> Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in person.
>
> The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good play. White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively", but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game is not just controlled by rubber, boy!
>
> If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
>
> It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and durometer of the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!! You have relegated yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
>
> The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else outside of your own little world.
>
> Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common sense will be disrepected and left in the dust.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:46:38 PM UTC-7, cody chunn wrote:
> > "Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> > with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
> > stock two colors is dead wrong."
> >
> > "Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> > with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
> > stock two colors is dead wrong."
> >
> > Interesting that you chose to edit this line out:
> >
> > 'That's why Pat demanded white...it's simply more fun'.
> >
> > So how many games since Pat left has had white rings?
> >
> >
> > 'That's why Pat demanded white...it's simply more fun'.
> >
> > So how many games since Pat left has had white rings?
> >
> > > White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice
> > > made
> > > by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
> > > for a longer period of time.
> >
> > "That's your opinion and I disagree."
> >
> > > made
> > > by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
> > > for a longer period of time.
> >
> > "That's your opinion and I disagree."
> >
> > That's also Pat's opinion. That's why he...demanded white on his games.
> >
> >
> > "As I mentioned above, Steve Ritchie has posted about this topic here
> > in the past. Google it and you might learn something."
> >
> > in the past. Google it and you might learn something."
> >
> > Steve will say anything to put a positive spin on his games. He's a talented
> > huckster. You don't expect him to say: "Yeah, black rings suck, but that's
> > all Gary orders, so I have to work with that," or "I'd love to have white on
> > the game, but it'll still play great," or "It'll be crappy in black but when
> > you fit it with white, look out!"
> >
> > huckster. You don't expect him to say: "Yeah, black rings suck, but that's
> > all Gary orders, so I have to work with that," or "I'd love to have white on
> > the game, but it'll still play great," or "It'll be crappy in black but when
> > you fit it with white, look out!"
> >
> > "When you throw
> > out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> > decent player, it doesn't hold much water."
> >
> > out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> > decent player, it doesn't hold much water."
> >
> > #1, I have done OK in a few tourneys I've competed in. Google it, you might
> > learn something.
> >
> > And B, white rings *are* better if you like more ball action. Livelier
> > bounce and better grip than black both add to the ball action. That is a
> > fact. Red flipper rings have more bounce and grip than black. Fact. These
> > result in more frenetic ball action and that is integral to exciting pinball
> > play. Black rings have less of all of that. You don't have to be a tourney
> > winner to understand that, but thanks for the attempt at condescension.
> >
> > learn something.
> >
> > And B, white rings *are* better if you like more ball action. Livelier
> > bounce and better grip than black both add to the ball action. That is a
> > fact. Red flipper rings have more bounce and grip than black. Fact. These
> > result in more frenetic ball action and that is integral to exciting pinball
> > play. Black rings have less of all of that. You don't have to be a tourney
> > winner to understand that, but thanks for the attempt at condescension.
> >
> > "Maybe if you post a list of
> > all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> > posts if needed."
> >
> > all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> > posts if needed."
> >
> > I've never won. Research past Texas Pinball Festivals to see how I stack up
> > as a player and then decide if can have any reputation or not. Maybe then
> > you'll allow me to comment. I didn't know you had to be a tourney winner to
> > post. My bad.
> >
> > -cody
> >
> >
> > "phishrace" wrote in message
> > news:04f17820-351b-4bae...@s6g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > as a player and then decide if can have any reputation or not. Maybe then
> > you'll allow me to comment. I didn't know you had to be a tourney winner to
> > post. My bad.
> >
> > -cody
> >
> >
> > "phishrace" wrote in message
> > news:04f17820-351b-4bae...@s6g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > On Jun 14, 2:59 pm, "cody chunn" <cchu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
> > > they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
> > > designers get black.
> >
> > Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> > with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
> > stock two colors is dead wrong.
> >
> > > White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice
> > > made
> > > by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
> > > for a longer period of time.
> >
> > That's your opinion and I disagree.
> >
> > > That sounds kind of naïve to me. I think Stern games come in black because
> > > they last longer and Stern ain't gonna stock two colors of rings so the
> > > designers get black.
> >
> > Ripley's shipped with mostly white rubbers (one black). FGY also came
> > with black and white rubbers. So how long they last and not wanting to
> > stock two colors is dead wrong.
> >
> > > White plays better and red is better flipper rings so it is a sacrifice
> > > made
> > > by the manufacturer to please operators that don't have to replace a ring
> > > for a longer period of time.
> >
> > That's your opinion and I disagree.
> >
> > > Gameplay on a machine fitted with black is slower, less lively and
> > > generally
> > > easier and boring so for any designer to choose black is very difficult to
> > > understand.
> >
> > As I mentioned above, Steve Ritchie has posted about this topic here
> > in the past. Google it and you might learn something. When you throw
> > out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> > decent player, it doesn't hold much water. Maybe if you post a list of
> > all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> > posts if needed.
> >
> > -phish
> > > generally
> > > easier and boring so for any designer to choose black is very difficult to
> > > understand.
> >
> > As I mentioned above, Steve Ritchie has posted about this topic here
> > in the past. Google it and you might learn something. When you throw
> > out 'white rubbers are better period' without any reputation as a
> > decent player, it doesn't hold much water. Maybe if you post a list of
> > all the tournaments you've won, we'd take you more seriously. Use two
> > posts if needed.
> >
cal50
Jul 7, 2012, 6:45:40 PM7/7/12
to
( Advantage < Steve)
--
cal50
RGP Archive and posting Gateway
Message has been deleted
Terp Mark
Jul 7, 2012, 8:23:36 PM7/7/12
to
c...@provide.net;1967791 Wrote:
> as many know, I don't post to RGP any more. But for this,
> i will make one exception.
> I can offer some facts on rubber that perhaps a lot of people
> don't know. You all may find it useful in rubber choice on games.
>
> First off, rubber today is WAY different than rubber from the
> past. Since the end of "ABC" rubber (which Williams had a
> good share), things have changed in the world of pinball
> rubber. ABC rubber was the standard by which all other
> rubber was and should be compared. It was perfect rubber
> in terms of durometer and durability. I think most people will
> agree on that (at least those that remember ABC rubber.)
>
> Today, largely, there is really just one maker of rubber in Taiwan.
> They hold the molds for Terry (Pinball Life), Steve Young, Marco,
> and the other guys that make rubber. So when you buy Pinball
> Life rubber and you see "PL" on the rubber, it's really no different
> than the other brands (generally speaking, though there are
> some exceptions.) Same formula, just they use the molds
> belonging to whomever is ordering rubber.
>
> That said, today's White rubber is absolute trash. SR is quite
> right that putting white rubber on games today is suicide.
> Today's white rubber is way too soft. It has no longevity, and
> comes apart quickly. (about 3 weeks white mini-posts fall apart
> or rip, and slingshots tear and fall apart.)
>
> I operate games, and frankly I can't use today's white rubber.
> For games in your home, I'm sure it's fine. But out in the
> "commercial world", new white rubber is junk. The formula is bad,
> improper, and useless, in my experience. It's way too soft and
> way too white, and just wears really poorly. For your game room it's
> soft and spongy, really white, and probably works well for the
> 100 to 200 games you'll put on your machines in a year. But out
> in the field, new white rubber does not work in high play
> environments.
>
> I've discussed this with Terry at PL. He doesn't want to change
> things. His customer base is home owners, and they like
> the soft-like-bubble-gum white rubber. So after considerable
> whining to Terry and Mark at Marco by Tim Arnold and myself, Marco
> has come up with a NEW formula for white rubber. We've been testing
> it for Marco, and I have to say, it's a HUGE improvement over
> the stuff everyone else is selling.
>
> So is the new Marco rubber better than ABC rubber of old?
> Frankly, no. I would say the new Marco rubber is a lot like
> the HAPP and WICO rubber of 10 years ago. Not amazing,
> not perfect, but miles ahead of the stuff everyone else is
> selling today. I've found it far more durable on my games.
> I believe Tim Arnold is getting about the same results too.
> Hats off to Marco!
>
> Now a little about the history of rubber. You'll ask how i know
> this useless crap, but i *collect* white rubber. I have stock piles
> of ABC rubber from 15 years ago, brand new, stored in ziplock
> bags, in dark cabinets. I also have Wico, Happ, and a few other
> brands offered over the last 15 years. I have this stuff in huge
> qualities too, so i can test and compare today's rubber to
> the "rubber of old." (It gives a nice point of reference, as I have
> about 10,000 pieces of white rubber in inventory.)
>
> I also have some black rubber too from years ago, but not
> nearly the quantities to do much testing. I will say this about
> black rubber today, it's better than black rubber of old. Today's
> black rubber is actually pretty decent. Hence SR's usage of
> it today is really not a huge factor. Personally I like (vintage)
> white rubber better than today's black rubber, but that's me.
> I completely understand why SR uses black. I mean I don't
> like it, but given the choice of today's black versus today's
> white rubber, black wins in durability by miles. It still looks
> like hell though - clean white rubber will always win in looks.
> (Sorry SR.)
>
> I will say this though. We are operating all the new Sterns,
> including SR's titles. And they all have vintage white rubber on them.
> People come play them and are like, "Wow this game is really
> different, i like it!" The games play more difficult, with different
> bounce properties. Spiderman is the perfect example. With black
> rubber, I find game times to be fairly high (in excess of 5 minutes.)
> Switched to vintage white rubber, and game times are about
> 3 minutes. The game is a lot harder, and frankly a lot more fun!
> Personally i like that, but that's me. Some people find it more
> frustrating, but in the end, that just means they play more games!
>
> We also use vintage ABC rubber on a lot of our games (both
> Tim and I have some inventory of original ABC.) It's still the
> standard that all others should strive. But I've largely moved to
> using vintage ABC on EM games only, and use vintage white Happ
> and Wico (etc.) on the solidstate games. The only "new" white
> rubber I use (other than the Marco stuff) is mini-posts, as i have
> NO old inventory of white mini posts! This really sucks because
> today's white mini-posts last about 3 weeks.
> PLEASE TERRY LISTEN.
>
> I hope this helps everyone. I won't do any follow up posts to
> this. I just hope it helps. Also if you could all support Marco
> and his new flavor of white rubber, I think that would be good
> move (the price of his new rubber is no different than existing
> white rubber.) When ordering you have to talk to Mark about
> getting it, the new Marco white rubber is not the "default"
> rubber that he sells.
Thanks Clay!! Interesting!
Mark
--
Terp Mark
pmWolf
Jul 7, 2012, 9:24:37 PM7/7/12
to
c...@provide.net;1967791 Wrote:
> First off, rubber today is WAY different than rubber from the
> past. Since the end of "ABC" rubber (which Williams had a
> good share), things have changed in the world of pinball
> rubber. ABC rubber was the standard by which all other
> rubber was and should be compared. It was perfect rubber
> in terms of durometer and durability. I think most people will
> agree on that (at least those that remember ABC rubber.)
>
>
Officially, this is the longest thing that I've ever read on the subject
of rubber.
Thanks!
Pete
--
pmWolf
cody chunn
Jul 7, 2012, 9:49:29 PM7/7/12
to
I suppose based on this information I will have to acquiesce to the use of
black rubber for manufacturers.
Also, double-stacking white mini-posts greatly increases their life. Shove
one down on the post itself, then another in the groove.
I still say any game fitted with "ABC style" white rings will play much
better than one fitted with black, but it looks like that just isn't
possible these days.
-cody
wrote in message
news:343d9028-6e90-4b5b...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
as many know, I don't post to RGP any more. But for this,
i will make one exception.
I can offer some facts on rubber that perhaps a lot of people
don't know. You all may find it useful in rubber choice on games.
black rubber for manufacturers.
Also, double-stacking white mini-posts greatly increases their life. Shove
one down on the post itself, then another in the groove.
I still say any game fitted with "ABC style" white rings will play much
better than one fitted with black, but it looks like that just isn't
possible these days.
-cody
wrote in message
news:343d9028-6e90-4b5b...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
as many know, I don't post to RGP any more. But for this,
i will make one exception.
I can offer some facts on rubber that perhaps a lot of people
don't know. You all may find it useful in rubber choice on games.
First off, rubber today is WAY different than rubber from the
past. Since the end of "ABC" rubber (which Williams had a
good share), things have changed in the world of pinball
rubber. ABC rubber was the standard by which all other
rubber was and should be compared. It was perfect rubber
in terms of durometer and durability. I think most people will
agree on that (at least those that remember ABC rubber.)
past. Since the end of "ABC" rubber (which Williams had a
good share), things have changed in the world of pinball
rubber. ABC rubber was the standard by which all other
rubber was and should be compared. It was perfect rubber
in terms of durometer and durability. I think most people will
agree on that (at least those that remember ABC rubber.)
Pinster68
Jul 7, 2012, 10:21:24 PM7/7/12
to
pmWolf;1967864 Wrote:
> Officially, this is the longest thing that I've ever read on the subject
> of rubber.
>
> Thanks!
> Pete
--
Pinster68
rly...@carolina.rr.com
Jul 8, 2012, 12:42:27 AM7/8/12
to
Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. My boss bought a NIB "Elvis", we put it
on location.
As I remember
1. It shipped with White rubbers
2. Steve Ritchie designed it
The good thing about Steve is.... while you want to get all offended
that somebody like Cody just insulted 'The King".... you don't have to
because you know Steve's such a bad-ass he's fully capable of taking
care of it himself, LOL!
Rock on Steve!
--
RLy...@carolina.rr.com
Frank Furhter
Jul 8, 2012, 12:56:08 AM7/8/12
to
RLy...@carolina.rr.com wrote:
> Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. My boss bought a NIB "Elvis", we put it
> on location.
>
> As I remember
>
> 1. It shipped with White rubbers
>
> 2. Steve Ritchie designed it
>
> The good thing about Steve is.... while you want to get all offended
> that somebody like Cody just insulted 'The King".... you don't have to
> because you know Steve's such a bad-ass he's fully capable of taking
> care of it himself, LOL!
>
> Rock on Steve!
Like folks being fed at an elderly home.
> Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. My boss bought a NIB "Elvis", we put it
> on location.
>
> As I remember
>
> 1. It shipped with White rubbers
>
> 2. Steve Ritchie designed it
>
> The good thing about Steve is.... while you want to get all offended
> that somebody like Cody just insulted 'The King".... you don't have to
> because you know Steve's such a bad-ass he's fully capable of taking
> care of it himself, LOL!
>
> Rock on Steve!
Kingpin
Jul 8, 2012, 12:25:52 AM7/8/12
to
Clay I used your posts and expertise in the subject to place a large order for BumperNets in Birmingham, AL. This location has 20+ machines and uses white rubber from Pinball Resource (steve). In the year and a half since I've seen two slings break easily and quite a few of the small post rubbers been replaced, but in we've seen almost the same in the black STC rubber from Stern so it's really 6's and 7's in the end.
SR's absolutely right about the small post rubber and I get why he and Gomez really like it (faster, less bouncy, less grip), but all you have to do is use some "fatties" post rubber and you get the same reliability albeit a whole lot more bounce and an increase in the diameter.
Stern and STC's black rubber is fantastic for what it is, but it will never provide the side to side, bouncy flair that white provides...too bad they don't make a harder white rubber and a softer black so everyone can be happy.
SR's absolutely right about the small post rubber and I get why he and Gomez really like it (faster, less bouncy, less grip), but all you have to do is use some "fatties" post rubber and you get the same reliability albeit a whole lot more bounce and an increase in the diameter.
Stern and STC's black rubber is fantastic for what it is, but it will never provide the side to side, bouncy flair that white provides...too bad they don't make a harder white rubber and a softer black so everyone can be happy.
Pinball Guy
Jul 8, 2012, 1:38:12 AM7/8/12
to
On Jul 8, 11:49 am, "cody chunn" <cchu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I suppose based on this information I will have to acquiesce to the use of
> black rubber for manufacturers.
>
> Also, double-stacking white mini-posts greatly increases their life. Shove
> one down on the post itself, then another in the groove.
>
> I still say any game fitted with "ABC style" white rings will play much
> better than one fitted with black, but it looks like that just isn't
> possible these days.
>
> -cody
>
> wrote in messagenews:343d9028-6e90-4b5b...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> I suppose based on this information I will have to acquiesce to the use of
> black rubber for manufacturers.
>
> Also, double-stacking white mini-posts greatly increases their life. Shove
> one down on the post itself, then another in the groove.
>
> I still say any game fitted with "ABC style" white rings will play much
> better than one fitted with black, but it looks like that just isn't
> possible these days.
>
> -cody
>
I'm with you regarding White Rubbers!
They always look neat and lift any playfield in looks.
Thanks again :)
sumon...@gmail.com
Jul 8, 2012, 1:43:57 AM7/8/12
to
On Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:03:27 PM UTC+6, PT wrote:
> I need to install my Pinbits plastic protectors this weekend. I figure
> I will install white rubber while I have it torn down. Most machines
> look and play better to me with white rubber. Just wondering if anyone
> who has done this can comment in how it looks and plays?
>
> Thanks! BiB #274 by the way.
>
> John
>
>
> --
> John I
>
> http://www.floridapinballforum.com
> I need to install my Pinbits plastic protectors this weekend. I figure
> I will install white rubber while I have it torn down. Most machines
> look and play better to me with white rubber. Just wondering if anyone
> who has done this can comment in how it looks and plays?
>
> Thanks! BiB #274 by the way.
>
> John
>
>
> --
> John I
>
> http://www.floridapinballforum.com
Pinball Guy
Jul 8, 2012, 1:45:54 AM7/8/12
to
> Thank you Cody.
> I'm with you regarding White Rubbers!
> They always look neat and lift any playfield in looks.
> Thanks again :)
and thanks to Marco, looking forward to longer lasting rubbers ;)
TheKorn
Jul 9, 2012, 4:54:35 AM7/9/12
to
"c...@provide.net" <c...@provide.net> wrote in news:343d9028-6e90-4b5b-9416-
138cc8...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> I will say this about
> black rubber today, it's better than black rubber of old. Today's
> black rubber is actually pretty decent. Hence SR's usage of
> it today is really not a huge factor.
I have to agree with this sentiment. I've been pleasantly surprised playing Stern
games over the past few years; even though the rubber is black it doesn't play like
the black rubber of old, at least not for the first few thousand plays IMHO. After
that it settles down a bit, but by then you're really reaching the end of useful
service life. So I don't see much (from a player's perspective) difference between
black and white rubber on new pins.
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
DVD?
http://www.webwidevideo.com/
138cc8...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> I will say this about
> black rubber today, it's better than black rubber of old. Today's
> black rubber is actually pretty decent. Hence SR's usage of
> it today is really not a huge factor.
games over the past few years; even though the rubber is black it doesn't play like
the black rubber of old, at least not for the first few thousand plays IMHO. After
that it settles down a bit, but by then you're really reaching the end of useful
service life. So I don't see much (from a player's perspective) difference between
black and white rubber on new pins.
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
DVD?
http://www.webwidevideo.com/
Eddie
Jul 9, 2012, 12:12:38 PM7/9/12
to
On Jun 30, 1:13 am, Steve <king...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:25:17 AM UTC-7, cody chunn wrote:
> > "Steve" wrote in message
> >news:529ae905-383a-4874...@googlegroups.com...
> > anyone, just that you have a knack for complimenting your work.
>
> > >The color ofrubberon my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good
> > >play.
>
> > The "long wear" part of that comment supports my own. IMO, if you only chose
> > rings for "best play", disregarding "long wear" I think they would be more
> > fun.
>
> > >White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper)rubberis "more lively",
> > guides, layout angles and ball returns/feeds have everything to do with
> > speed. The rings come into play when the ball is bouncing around wild in the
> > lower part of the field and around bumpers and such. Just because a game is
> > fast doesn't mean it's fun. No Fear is an example of that. Again, no offense
> > intended.
> > profoundly admire your career as a designer and you as a person (well, 'till
> > now).
> > black rings over white. They suck. IMO. Except to sacrifice "better" play
> > for longer life and dirt concealment. And since they never break or show
> > dirt, they never get cleaned or replaced and then the games REALLY play like
> > crap.
> > use and it seemed logical enough to me.
> > management? Sorry I pissed you off, I meant no disrespect. Only that you
> > promote your games very enthusiastically and wouldn't intentionally make a
> > negative comment about one regarding an aspect that was out of your control.
> > I guess that is deserving of the outrage. Still don't understand why you
> > would choose black, though, unless you had no choice.
>
> > Please don't stab me if you ever see me at a show again. I will try to stay
> > away from you. Really.
>
> > >Steve
>
> > -cody
>
> I promote my games from the heart. AC/DC has been selling well no matter what your thoughts or comments are.
>
> You can't call me a huckster without expecting to be stabbed! The "Really" you added was a nice touch! :<)) And I over-reacted!!!! I did. Sorry.
>
> Seriously though, I am a little tired of your coming off as a the definitive pinball authority and inside man for your last 100 posts. I know you are and have been a fan of pinball, but you have no idea about what goes on at our company, nor do you know what or why decisions are made. You guess, but your guesses are nearly always incorrect.
>
> Let me make it clear that owners and operators can install any color ofrubberthey want on their games. When I chooserubberfor my designs, I look at the play carefully. White rubbers are more lively, but they don't last as long as black, and the black ones don't show dirt like the white ones do. Just because they are black doesn't mean they don't have to be cleaned!!! They need cleaning when you clean your game.
>
> My games are generally fast and lively enough that I don't lose much when choosing black because it's a little more reliable over a longer period of time. I have seen white mini-post rubbers wear in a couple of weeks on my games, so I won't install them. In the case of BK2K I mixed black and white, with white on the W-A-R lanes for a nicer and more frequent delivery to the upper right flipper. They were not exposed to high-powered flipper shots, or hard wear, and really make a big difference.
>
> No one can say that "whiterubberis more fun than blackrubber" and expect me to take it seriously. It is your opinion and nothing more. And a lot of people really like No Fear, just not you. And it's OK. I can't make everyone happy all the time, but I try anyway!!!
>
> Whether you meant to disrespect me or not, you did, so just saying that you didn't mean has no effect. I have not disrespected you ever before I reacted to your comments.
>
> I can forgive and forget if you can, Cody. I don't want to be guilty of having "Yetterben Disease" that results in post after post of insults and spewed hate and bad vibes.
>
> I am over being a huckster, and I hope you recover soon from the stab wound. :<))
>
> Steve
Steve, come on now you dont have total say at Stern with choice of
rubbers in your designs. Didnt Gary completely squash your idea of
using Trojans in AC/DC instead of Black rubbers?
and Road Racing is still superior then dirt racing! :-)
> On Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:25:17 AM UTC-7, cody chunn wrote:
> > "Steve" wrote in message
> >news:529ae905-383a-4874...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > >Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here. If I am a "huckster that
> > >will say anything to put a positive spin on his games" then you are a
> > > >worthless POS who says anything on his mind!
>
> > >What an insult!
>
> > It was not intended as such. I don't accuse you of lying or misleading
> > >Cody, buddy, you've gone off the deep end here. If I am a "huckster that
> > >will say anything to put a positive spin on his games" then you are a
> > > >worthless POS who says anything on his mind!
>
> > >What an insult!
>
> > anyone, just that you have a knack for complimenting your work.
>
> > >Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted
> > >viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you
> > > >need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in
> > >person.
>
> > That's a bit of overacting.
> > >Seriously, you need to see a shrink and get some meds for your distorted
> > >viewpoint. Did you think I wouldn't read what you wrote? Really, you
> > > >need to get your sorry _$$ to mental help and hope we never meet in
> > >person.
>
>
> > >The color ofrubberon my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good
> > >play.
>
> > The "long wear" part of that comment supports my own. IMO, if you only chose
> > rings for "best play", disregarding "long wear" I think they would be more
> > fun.
>
> > >White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper)rubberis "more lively",
> > >but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game
> > > >is not just controlled byrubber, boy!
>
> > The way I see it, rings have the LEAST effect on a game's speed. Ball
> > > >is not just controlled byrubber, boy!
>
> > guides, layout angles and ball returns/feeds have everything to do with
> > speed. The rings come into play when the ball is bouncing around wild in the
> > lower part of the field and around bumpers and such. Just because a game is
> > fast doesn't mean it's fun. No Fear is an example of that. Again, no offense
> > intended.
>
> > >If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get
> > >your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
>
> > I never questioned or doubted your ability to make fantastic pins. I
> > >If I am not the designer who has produced fast games, then who is?? Get
> > >your head out of your a$$ and view the world as it really is.
>
> > profoundly admire your career as a designer and you as a person (well, 'till
> > now).
>
> > >It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice ofrubber
> > >we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and >durometer of
> > >therubberused on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can
> > >It is YOU who is naive! Gary has nothing to do with the choice ofrubber
> > >we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and >durometer of
> > >choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!! >You have relegated
> > >yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
>
> > OK, I am wrong. I still cannot comprehend why any designer would choose
> > >yourself to the classification of "worthless naive idiot" in just one post!
>
> > black rings over white. They suck. IMO. Except to sacrifice "better" play
> > for longer life and dirt concealment. And since they never break or show
> > dirt, they never get cleaned or replaced and then the games REALLY play like
> > crap.
>
> > >The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else
> > >outside of your own little world.
>
> > This is true. I made assumptions based on my limited knowledge of black ring
> > >The truth is, you don't know what's going on here at Stern or anywhere else
> > >outside of your own little world.
>
> > use and it seemed logical enough to me.
>
> > >Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old
> > >posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common >sense
> > >will be disrepected and left in the dust.
>
> > Whatever. You wanna ride with me to the therapist to work on your anger
> > >Maybe next time you will listen to Phishrace and learn something from old
> > >posts on RGP. Self-righteous disrespecting idiots without common >sense
> > >will be disrepected and left in the dust.
>
> > management? Sorry I pissed you off, I meant no disrespect. Only that you
> > promote your games very enthusiastically and wouldn't intentionally make a
> > negative comment about one regarding an aspect that was out of your control.
> > I guess that is deserving of the outrage. Still don't understand why you
> > would choose black, though, unless you had no choice.
>
> > Please don't stab me if you ever see me at a show again. I will try to stay
> > away from you. Really.
>
> > >Steve
>
> > -cody
>
> I promote my games from the heart. AC/DC has been selling well no matter what your thoughts or comments are.
>
> You can't call me a huckster without expecting to be stabbed! The "Really" you added was a nice touch! :<)) And I over-reacted!!!! I did. Sorry.
>
> Seriously though, I am a little tired of your coming off as a the definitive pinball authority and inside man for your last 100 posts. I know you are and have been a fan of pinball, but you have no idea about what goes on at our company, nor do you know what or why decisions are made. You guess, but your guesses are nearly always incorrect.
>
> Let me make it clear that owners and operators can install any color ofrubberthey want on their games. When I chooserubberfor my designs, I look at the play carefully. White rubbers are more lively, but they don't last as long as black, and the black ones don't show dirt like the white ones do. Just because they are black doesn't mean they don't have to be cleaned!!! They need cleaning when you clean your game.
>
> My games are generally fast and lively enough that I don't lose much when choosing black because it's a little more reliable over a longer period of time. I have seen white mini-post rubbers wear in a couple of weeks on my games, so I won't install them. In the case of BK2K I mixed black and white, with white on the W-A-R lanes for a nicer and more frequent delivery to the upper right flipper. They were not exposed to high-powered flipper shots, or hard wear, and really make a big difference.
>
> No one can say that "whiterubberis more fun than blackrubber" and expect me to take it seriously. It is your opinion and nothing more. And a lot of people really like No Fear, just not you. And it's OK. I can't make everyone happy all the time, but I try anyway!!!
>
> Whether you meant to disrespect me or not, you did, so just saying that you didn't mean has no effect. I have not disrespected you ever before I reacted to your comments.
>
> I can forgive and forget if you can, Cody. I don't want to be guilty of having "Yetterben Disease" that results in post after post of insults and spewed hate and bad vibes.
>
> I am over being a huckster, and I hope you recover soon from the stab wound. :<))
>
> Steve
Steve, come on now you dont have total say at Stern with choice of
rubbers in your designs. Didnt Gary completely squash your idea of
using Trojans in AC/DC instead of Black rubbers?
and Road Racing is still superior then dirt racing! :-)
Pappy Boyington
Jul 10, 2012, 12:23:03 AM7/10/12
to
Thank you Steve and Cody for making my weekend.
Pappy
Pappy
EZ SLEEZE E
Jul 10, 2012, 3:20:45 AM7/10/12
to
This one will stay alive for sometime!!
cody chunn
Jul 10, 2012, 7:20:06 AM7/10/12
to
Heh...why do I get the felling that's a 'backhanded' thank you?
:0)
You're welcome, Rich. Glad my blunder was of some entertainment value.
-cody
"Pappy Boyington" wrote in message
news:640d6a27-aee6-4a02...@w6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
:0)
You're welcome, Rich. Glad my blunder was of some entertainment value.
-cody
"Pappy Boyington" wrote in message
news:640d6a27-aee6-4a02...@w6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
EZ SLEEZE E (MHMIP)
Aug 20, 2012, 3:08:14 AM8/20/12
to
PLONK!
EZ E
Aug 20, 2012, 10:18:52 AM8/20/12
to
Because So many have emailed and missed it so here you go!
--
EZ E
Message has been deleted
jayhawkai
Aug 20, 2012, 2:36:07 PM8/20/12
to
In other recent news, Andy Rooney died. Sorry to ruin your day everyone.
--
jayhawkai
EZ E
Aug 20, 2012, 3:29:36 PM8/20/12
to
That's real RGP HISTORY! bookmark this folks!
--
EZ E
Crazy Tim
Aug 20, 2012, 5:54:16 PM8/20/12
to
OMG. Ritchie bitch slapped the shit out of Cody
0 new messages