FS: White Water Nebraska $1895
ovfdfireman
interest but no takers, so I am posting. I am asking $1895 OBO, it
has a topper, but not the animated one. Ramps look good. See pics
(topper is not on it)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mockenhaupts/5174342447/in/set-72157625381465850/
ovfdfireman
Sorry forgot to write the sticker from treasure cove for the topper is
needed for $42. That is not included in the price (I do not have one)
mike
Hey, attention all RGPers, Do you all see the price of this WH2O. It's
in line with reality, and sanity. Pretty much what this game should
cost. Spend a couple days shopping it out and you have an awesome pin.
No crazy 7500.00 restoration. This is real world pricing, not the
insane price posse!
Taylor-VA
Good luck on the sale btw.
mike
> Mike, different strokes for different folks. Get over it.
>
> Good luck on the sale btw.
I'm so over it. Just want people to know that this is realistic
pricing, and that other machine is hedge fund manager pricing.
Taylor-VA
understand that right?
Btw, good luck with the sale.
Michael O'Brien
Good lord, you don't sound like you're "over" anything. Thanks for
giving your opinion on high end restored pricing though!
pinfan
JUST WHEN I THOUGHT THIS TOPIC WAS "BLED OUT".... sheesh
Bryan Kelly
can't get over the fact that there are all levels of collecting and
with that comes all levels of pricing.
That's what makes collecting pins so great. There's something for
eveyone, no matter how much money you have. You can spend $100 on an
old EM or you can spend upwards of $25,000 for an original BBB or KP.
And there's no reason why we can't all get along.
Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
mike
> No offense intended, Mike, but I'll never understand how some people
> can't get over the fact that there are all levels of collecting and
> with that comes all levels of pricing.
>
> That's what makes collecting pins so great. There's something for
> eveyone, no matter how much money you have. You can spend $100 on an
> old EM or you can spend upwards of $25,000 for an original BBB or KP.
>
> And there's no reason why we can't all get along.
>
>
> On Nov 14, 9:12 pm, mike <wizb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey, attention all RGPers, Do you all see the price of this WH2O. It's
> > in line with reality, and sanity. Pretty much what this game should
> > cost. Spend a couple days shopping it out and you have an awesome pin.
> > No crazy 7500.00 restoration. This is real world pricing, not the
>
> - Show quoted text -
Get along? Everytime I give my opinion on overpriced restorations, I
get attacked. A discussion means just that. People discussing things.
This just happens to be one of my pet peaves. Overpricing. It's what
throws the collector market way out of wack. Have you noticed the
pinball and arcade game industry in general is dying a slow death for
just this reason. Everyone is being priced out of the market. If you
want a new generation of collectors, try not to make pricing so out of
reach. What makes collecting so great, is people from all economic
backgrounds can enjoy it, and get involved, not a few exclusive high
end collectors out of reach for most.
Michael O'Brien
> get attacked. A discussion means just that. People discussing things.
> This just happens to be one of my pet peaves. Overpricing. It's what
> throws the collector market way out of wack. Have you noticed the
> pinball and arcade game industry in general is dying a slow death for
> just this reason. Everyone is being priced out of the market. If you
> want a new generation of collectors, try not to make pricing so out of
> reach. What makes collecting so great, is people from all economic
> backgrounds can enjoy it, and get involved, not a few exclusive high
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey Mike, perhaps it's the wording used. Here's what you've said so
far in your posts:
- sanity
- reality
- crazy 7500 restoration
- insane price posse
- "my pet peaves"
- dying a slow death for just this reason
- everyone is being priced out of the market
Hm, so there's a lot of extremes used there, generalizations, etc etc.
Not sure where you are going with this, but there are different priced
machines, depending on the level of restoration. The market price
isn't yours to approve. It's your pet peave, we all get that. But if
the higher priced ones don't sell, then I'm sure the sellers will take
note, and reprice accordingly.
Michael
Chad Keller
Mike, you make a great point when you said it's for all people.
Before high end restorations what were the rich to do? Buy an old
beater and put it in their $2m house? Maybe you should consider how
many blown out games have been made into nice games. Many of the
blown out games would have been parted so everyone in the hobby
looses. I think your view is very short sided. Last time I checked
there are still plenty of pins for sale in your price level.
Restoring a pin requires skilled labor, especially the cabinet. The
last time I checked, skilled labor in this country is valued above $15-
$20 per hour which is what most guys make on a high end restoration.
I have no concept how you can have the views you have unless you think
everyone should work for $2 per hour. I was in a similar situation
early in my collecting career. Instead of crying about it I adapted
to it. Why don't you do some high end restorations yourself and make
a little $$ to pay for the next pin?
mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, I'm crying about it. I collect and restore beaters. That's my
skill level. I do it for 0 dollars an hour, because I love doing it. I
will never do high end restorations, because I would have to deal with
people like you. I'll stick to the 2 dollar an hour crowd, and fill
that niche. I'll leave the 2 mil mansion machines to you.
Del
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike,
You really should be collecting these instead .
Pin-Del,
mike
> .
>
> Pin-Del,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's a good one. Stamps. I would but you have the licking market
cornered.
Del
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shame on you, Mike !,
I found this one for you,, Sheesh, Cain't even help a guy out these
days !
mike
> .
>
> Shame on you, Mike !,
> I found this one for you,, Sheesh, Cain't even help a guy out these
>
> - Show quoted text -
No you cain't! Is cain't a word?
mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is the perfect hobby for you Del.
http://www.huntingraccoon.com/raccoon_hides_skinning.html
Del
>
> - Show quoted text -
COOL !!,, Everyone loved Davy Crockett when I was a Kid ;p
But really, If you think Pinball costs a lot of money, You don't even
want to know what my other hobbies are .
Also know just about everyone here started some place with these
Pinballs & I started with 200.00 games & moved up, You can bych about
someone's selling price all day long & it's not going to get you
anywhere ( like me trying to reason with you ), But there is a whole
different world out there with high dollar collector games you must
not know about & you've bashed two Great guy's because you don't agree
with their prices, Either move on to a different subject or start
collecting stamps .
Pin-Del,
JDubbbs
Your constant whinning and sniveling sounds more like your unhappy
your pins dont attract this much attention or cash.
I thought BK's price is fair for the amount of work put into the
machine.
900 repo pf
400 clearcoat for new pf
120 plastic set
250 side art
50 new legs w/ levelers
Clives board repair $40 a board just for the check
175 pinball pro speakers
75 side rails
120 coin door
150 repo boulders
500 repo pinball inc ramp set
$9 x 12 new targets
30 custom shooter
1500 base game
flipper rebuild kit 45
coil sleeves x 25 $12
flipper bats x 3 $9
all new metal post.... $3-5 each if you can find the right ones
Right there alone you have 5k invested in the machine, plus all of
Brians hard work and mad skillz put to the test and you have one super
nice restored pin.
Hell, even i received 2500 for my UN RESTORED but extremely clean wh20
and the seller didnt even balk, maybe its the sign of the times, wh20
is just getting harder to find in nice shape and when people who want
them do find them, they pay for them.
Me thinks you should just stick to bingo machines which can be found
cheap, restored to your condition and worth no more than your well
documented whinning. Makes me wonder if your even "restore" a machine
or if the shit your selling is nothing more than a polished turd along
with alot of self gratification. You and your colors are showing,
another craigslist thief flipping pins to buyers you can rape all
while trying to make a few bucks........ BK is doing the same thing
here, he just does it right and you welll............... back to the
craiglist follies to pay the rent.
What a douche
John
jdubbbs
mike
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> COOL !!,, Everyone loved Davy Crockett when I was a Kid ;p
>
> But really, If you think Pinball costs a lot of money, You don't even
> want to know what my other hobbies are .
>
> Also know just about everyone here started some place with these
> Pinballs & I started with 200.00 games & moved up, You can bych about
> someone's selling price all day long & it's not going to get you
> anywhere ( like me trying to reason with you ), But there is a whole
> different world out there with high dollar collector games you must
> not know about & you've bashed two Great guy's because you don't agree
> with their prices, Either move on to a different subject or start
> collecting stamps .
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Who's whinning? I just like to listen to you jokers ramble on about
your great projects. I'm having a blast!
Bryan Kelly
everywhere inbetween. Of course, the poor guys give the rich guys
shit and the rich guys give the poor guys shit, cause that's just what
we do. But we all get along great and always enjoy each other's
company.
Maybe if I met you in person, you'd be a nice guy. But for now, you
seem to have too large a chip on your shoulder for me.
Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
On Nov 15, 12:53 pm, mike <wizb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll stick to the 2 dollar an hour crowd, and fill
> that niche. I'll leave the 2 mil mansion machines to you.- Hide quoted text -
jason
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > COOL !!,, Everyone loved Davy Crockett when I was a Kid ;p
>
> > But really, If you think Pinball costs a lot of money, You don't even
> > want to know what my other hobbies are .
>
> > Also know just about everyone here started some place with these
> > Pinballs & I started with 200.00 games & moved up, You can bych about
> > someone's selling price all day long & it's not going to get you
> > anywhere ( like me trying to reason with you ), But there is a whole
> > different world out there with high dollar collector games you must
> > not know about & you've bashed two Great guy's because you don't agree
> > with their prices, Either move on to a different subject or start
> > collecting stamps .
>
> > Pin-Del,- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Who's whinning? I just like to listen to you jokers ramble on about
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Mike,
This might help. Market conditions have been studied for years and one
thing remains pretty consistent...if there is any kind of market for
his 7500 WW then it will be bought...or...he will drop the price.
Just because he prices it like that and considering it may get sold
does NOT mean the entire market will get out of control and squeeze
out the little guy who just wants a cosmetically decent pin in their
garage for guys to drink beer over every now and then. For every 7500
WW that gets sold...you'll run across those that get sold for 1600,
1500 or whatever. These machines are essentially called comparables
and they adjust the market to what the average price someone is
willing to pay for a WW. No need to panic if you see what you think
is an overpriced machine. There's just as large a threat for
underpriced machines. In the end, the market value averages to what
the average Joe Q Citizen will pay for the machine. Simple as that.
Jason
yzfguy
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > COOL !!,, Everyone loved Davy Crockett when I was a Kid ;p
>
> > But really, If you think Pinball costs a lot of money, You don't even
> > want to know what my other hobbies are .
>
> > Also know just about everyone here started some place with these
> > Pinballs & I started with 200.00 games & moved up, You can bych about
> > someone's selling price all day long & it's not going to get you
> > anywhere ( like me trying to reason with you ), But there is a whole
> > different world out there with high dollar collector games you must
> > not know about & you've bashed two Great guy's because you don't agree
> > with their prices, Either move on to a different subject or start
> > collecting stamps .
>
> > Pin-Del,- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Who's whinning? I just like to listen to you jokers ramble on about
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nobody is whinning. Is "whinning" a word?!
PinFlipper
i just sold two white waters for 1600 and 1700 with toppers in clean
good playing condition...were they trophies hell no...will the people
tat bought them do complete restorations hell no...theres different
teirs of buyers out there. buy what u can afford
mike
> Funny thing is, Mike, I've got friends in both those catagories and
> everywhere inbetween. Of course, the poor guys give the rich guys
> shit and the rich guys give the poor guys shit, cause that's just what
> we do. But we all get along great and always enjoy each other's
> company.
>
> Maybe if I met you in person, you'd be a nice guy. But for now, you
> seem to have too large a chip on your shoulder for me.
>
>
> On Nov 15, 12:53 pm, mike <wizb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'll stick to the 2 dollar an hour crowd, and fill
> > that niche. I'll leave the 2 mil mansion machines to you.- Hide quoted text -
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
bent out of shape about it. Rich, poor, who cares. I was commenting on
the state of Pinball collecting as I see it. I might be totally wrong,
but it's so fun to hear how worked up everyone gets. Relax everyone.
Have fun. I'll send you all contact cleaner for your em pins, and
watch the sparks fly.
goatdan
> I have no chip on my shoulder. I've created a topic, and everyone is
> bent out of shape about it. Rich, poor, who cares. I was commenting on
> the state of Pinball collecting as I see it. I might be totally wrong,
> but it's so fun to hear how worked up everyone gets. Relax everyone.
> Have fun. I'll send you all contact cleaner for your em pins, and
> watch the sparks fly.
Mike,
Coming from a totally outside position on this, you definitely appear
to have a chip on your shoulder. If you were just commenting on the
state of pinball collecting and how you saw it, you would have an open
mind to other people's opinions and reply back to them in a
respectable manner. You haven't done that, even though people on the
other side have replied back with totally fair points. You haven't
addressed those points, just continued to point to the problems that
you see.
At the end of the day, there are people willing to pay that much money
for truly nice games, or else there would be no market for them. I
doubt I'll ever spend more than $2000 on a machine (although I'll
probably make an exception someday for an IM) but I have no issues
with anyone that does.
If someone buys them, Bryan's price is fair and this price is fair.
Depends on what you're looking for in a machine and who is looking.
Bryan Kelly
Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
Chad Keller
Well, at least you realize your skill level. You never would have to
deal with people like me, I do my own so have at it : ) A good friend
once told me, "you get paid what your worth". I guess 0 dollars an
hour sums it up then. Ever consider improving your quality? All
kidding aside, it's great that you collect and restore beaters. To
each his own and our hobby needs all types. Personally, there is
nothing better than taking that beater and rebuilding/replacing it to
look like new.
metallik
> bent out of shape about it. Rich, poor, who cares. I was commenting on
> the state of Pinball collecting as I see it. I might be totally wrong,
You are indeed totally wrong. The presence of a few $7500 Whitewaters
isn't going to deplete the supply of sub-2K whitewaters. Now, if
Whitewater continues to gain in popularity, those beaters may climb
above 2K, but that's because it's a great game and not because of
Bryan's restoration. There are all kinds of games out there for
cheap, and most titles have gotten a bit cheaper over the last few
years. Good games will appreciate, especially as supply declines.
> but it's so fun to hear how worked up everyone gets. Relax everyone.
> Have fun. I'll send you all contact cleaner for your em pins, and
> watch the sparks fly.
The only one getting worked up is you, and your personal attacks on
some others (del) are unwarranted. You're not making any friends
here, that's for sure :)
seymour.shabow
>
> Get along? Everytime I give my opinion on overpriced restorations, I
> get attacked. A discussion means just that. People discussing things.
> This just happens to be one of my pet peaves. Overpricing. It's what
> throws the collector market way out of wack. Have you noticed the
> pinball and arcade game industry in general is dying a slow death for
> just this reason.
Ummmm, no, you couldn't be more wrong. What's happening in the
overpriced collectors' market (your term, I don't agree with it) has zip
to do with what's happening in the pinball and arcade game industry. If
anything, it HELPS operators to know they can unload their old games to
collectors for high pricing - gives them incentive to actually BUY
equipment. Arcades are dying because kids no longer hang out in them
due to other entertainment choices. Earlier the arcade/mall was THE
place to see and be seen.
> Everyone is being priced out of the market. If you
> want a new generation of collectors, try not to make pricing so out of
> reach. What makes collecting so great, is people from all economic
> backgrounds can enjoy it, and get involved, not a few exclusive high
> end collectors out of reach for most.
There's plenty of cheap machines out there for newbies to get their feet
wet with. I guess most of those don't fit the "accepted" "cool"
collection that people just "have" to have, though.
Seriously, the same 15-25 machines that everyone has to have -
eventually the supply dries up of those machines and people start to ask
more coin for them. There are more machines out there than those cookie
cutters! Like you say earlier, TAKE that $1895 Whitewater, shop it out,
and enjoy it.
-scott CARGPB#29
seymour.shabow
You forgot to say "PLAY like new".
I've played machines that while they LOOKED awesome, they played like
shit. I'd rather have a rattier looking game that played well instead
of a cosmetically beautiful one that played like crap.
Of course, it's easier to take the gorgeous example and get it playing
correctly vs. making a turd into a gorgeous example. I prefer rather
the "used, presentable, and plays well" vintage.
-scott CARGPB#29
mike
> Ya can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long, Dan.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey Brian,
Get a clue. According to you and your little pin buddies, your opinion
is the only one that matters. I've read so many of your posts, and you
get a bunch of clones to agree with you. Do you really think my
opinion will change any high end buyers. I doubt it. Have fun with
your pins, and chill the f out.
Taylor-VA
of the hobby I have to disagree with. I personally purchased my WH2O
for 1400. I did restore is as that is part of the hobby that I enjoy,
I use to be dismayed at the cost people charged for restorations until
I did one.
Hugh
> Hey Brian,
> Get a clue. According to you and your little pin buddies, your opinion
> is the only one that matters. I've read so many of your posts, and you
> get a bunch of clones to agree with you. Do you really think my
> opinion will change any high end buyers. I doubt it. Have fun with
> your pins, and chill the f out.
WOW. Looks like you need to take your own advice. If anyone in this
thread should be jumping up and down it should be Bryan with all the
wonderful comments you have thrown his way. He has been the direct
opposite; completely civil and IMHO is completely "chill". Have you
completely pulled a game apart before and rebuilt it? Its a hell of a
lot of work. I really think people who complain about high end
restorations need to attempt one themselves first but this is common
sense right?
And for the record I completely disagree with you. High end
restorations might affect other high end restorations but definitely
not the market for normal games. I think frequent posts about about
how a great a specific game is the best ever influences pricing more
than the occasional FS ad for a restored pin.
Hugh
goatdan
> Ya can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long, Dan.
I somehow totally managed to miss the entire other thread until after
I posted that.
Wow. Mike, if you're going to get this worked up about the hobby, get
in a different one... But beware that other hobbies are very similar:
Buy the sealed copy of Zelda for the NES and you'll be paying probably
$250+ for it. Buy a copy to play, and you can get one for $5. That's
a 50 times price increase.
Based on those standards, a NIB WhiteWater should cost $94,750. Which
would mean a 'restored better than new' version would be even higher.
Makes $7500 seem pretty reasonable, really.
Dan Q very much
> Buy the sealed copy of Zelda for the NES and you'll be paying probably
> $250+ for it. Buy a copy to play, and you can get one for $5. That's
> a 50 times price increase.
improving that sealed Zelda.
When you really think about it, you have to be kind of awestruck with
the patience, tenacity, skill and thoroughness these guys exhibit. (I
struggle just to keep my games running!) And they do it mainly for the
love of the damn game, the same skill set could bring them a lot more
income if applied in some other endeavors.
jason
>
> - Show quoted text -
Holy cow! You are infatuated/obsessed with Bryan.
You write "Get a clue...bunch of clones..." and then have the audacity
to tell HIM to "chill the f out".
You need to take your medications again or someone needs to lower the
BANHAMMER.
Chad Keller
Actually, most new machines play like shit out of the box but I get
your point.