Dr. Who upper left flipper works in test but not in gameplay - Gah! Was working fine!

[Corey C.]

So I've been battling a dumbass Dr. Who machine for a long time and FINALLY got every single issue sorted out, but CHECK THIS OUT.

Everything was working, but it was reporting an error with the "upper left flipper button" and the "upper right flipper button" (game doesn't have an upper right flipper, but whatever).

I performed a factory reset and now the errors are GONE, but the upper left flipper WON'T WORK now. It was working PERFECTLY before the factory reset! MAAAAAN! I can't wait to get this game OUT of my house FOREVER!

Any suggestions for a solution would be greatly appreciated. I've looked through the manual for a setting or something to enable/disable the upper left flipper, but there's nothing there. Oh, and of course it works perfectly in flipper test mode!


Please help.

Thanks.

[faz]

Try swapping the flipper opto boards...it'll take 10 min.

May be a cold solder joint or a bad connector with the optos. All the Mini-Playfield optos work??

faz

[Corey C.]

You're damn right all the mini playfield optos work. I've had that freaking mini playfield apart 400 fuckin' times.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try it but I'm certain this is going to be one of those stupid problems that has me chasing my tail. Was hoping someone else might have direct experience with this particular issue, considering the flipper works in test and worked fine before a factory rest.

[seymour.shabow]

Corey C. wrote:
> You're damn right all the mini playfield optos work. I've had that
> freaking mini playfield apart 400 fuckin' times.
>

So have I on mine. Eventual fix was replace both the opto boards (no
jumper wire hack fixes, they just don't last) and the plastic carrier,
and add the shroud to prevent ambient light from getting in there.

On the plus side I did get really good at removing the mini playfield.....

[faz]

I asked about the mini-playfield to see if your opto power supply was clean. So, the original suggestion stands...try swapping the flipper opto boards. Did you try the switch test too?

You said the solenoids fire in test, that suggests the switching mechanism that triggers the solenoids.

I looked again through the manual and addendum, I don't see any options to turn off the upper flipper, so, it could be a coincidence. The closest thing to an option relates to the launch button being broken. You can optionally use the left flipper with setting on.

As for the mini-playfield...I've taken it apart once or twice myself :)

faz

[Corey C.]

So I fixed this problem.

Swapping the opto boards didn't help because the upper optos on both boards were bad. I ultimately replaced all of the optos on both boards and solved the problem.

My theory on this is that when the machine determines there's a problem with the upper optos, it automatically (magically) makes the upper flipper work in tandem with the lower flipper. When I performed the factory restore, it cleared the errors which rendered the upper flipper useless again because the opto was bad. So until the machine recognizes the opto problem and registers the error, the upper flipper just wouldn't work. Sound legit?

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I'm happy to have this game finally 100% and now can't wait to make it go away.

[TheKorn]

"Corey C." <solidsta...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:12a0dd2c-1cf8-4cda...@googlegroups.com:

Your upper left flipper opto is broken. The game was compensating by using the
lower left flipper opto. When you reset it, the compensation is no longer, so the
flipper doesn't work as a result.

Fix the problem, and the symptom will go away.

--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
DVD?

http://www.webwidevideo.com/

[TheKorn]

faz <pinba...@live.com> wrote in
news:77a1cd4d-ed38-4eda...@googlegroups.com:

> I asked about the mini-playfield to see if your opto power supply was
> clean. So, the original suggestion stands...try swapping the flipper
> opto boards. Did you try the switch test too?

I think the upper optos on both his flipper boards are bad, so I don't think
swapping them will do anything.

> You said the solenoids fire in test, that suggests the switching
> mechanism that triggers the solenoids.

Er.... what? These are fliptronics flippers.

> I looked again through the manual and addendum, I don't see any
> options to turn off the upper flipper, so, it could be a coincidence.
> The closest thing to an option relates to the launch button being
> broken. You can optionally use the left flipper with setting on.

No no no... the game was compensating for not seeing the upper flipper opto, then
he reset it, so it's no longer compensating.

[TheKorn]

"Corey C." <solidsta...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:90ddbb9c-ae54-4b02...@googlegroups.com:

> Swapping the opto boards didn't help because the upper optos on both
> boards were bad. I ultimately replaced all of the optos on both boards
> and solved the problem.
>
> My theory on this is that when the machine determines there's a
> problem with the upper optos, it automatically (magically) makes the
> upper flipper work in tandem with the lower flipper. When I performed
> the factory restore, it cleared the errors which rendered the upper
> flipper useless again because the opto was bad. So until the machine
> recognizes the opto problem and registers the error, the upper flipper
> just wouldn't work. Sound legit?

That's pretty dead on what happens. After 30 balls, the game says "well, it's
dead" and doubles down on the other opto.

[seymour.shabow]

TheKorn wrote:
> "Corey C." <solidsta...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:90ddbb9c-ae54-4b02...@googlegroups.com:
>
>> Swapping the opto boards didn't help because the upper optos on both
>> boards were bad. I ultimately replaced all of the optos on both boards
>> and solved the problem.
>>
>> My theory on this is that when the machine determines there's a
>> problem with the upper optos, it automatically (magically) makes the
>> upper flipper work in tandem with the lower flipper. When I performed
>> the factory restore, it cleared the errors which rendered the upper
>> flipper useless again because the opto was bad. So until the machine
>> recognizes the opto problem and registers the error, the upper flipper
>> just wouldn't work. Sound legit?
>
> That's pretty dead on what happens. After 30 balls, the game says "well, it's
> dead" and doubles down on the other opto.
>

Self healing switches on flippers activate earlier than 30 balls. (At
least they did on system 11, don't see why they wouldn't carry that into
WPC)

Pretty simple way it was implemented, too....... Every ball, decrement a
register, one for every switch that's used in the game. Every time that
switch is activated, set it back to $1E. At various points, any one
that gets to 00 (IIRC actually when it decrements to $FF, so they can
walk through looking for the NEG flag) - put the credit dot up there.

[TheKorn]

"seymour.shabow" <seymour...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:l1b49c$q7a$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

>> That's pretty dead on what happens. After 30 balls, the game says
>> "well, it's dead" and doubles down on the other opto.
>
> Self healing switches on flippers activate earlier than 30 balls. (At
> least they did on system 11, don't see why they wouldn't carry that
> into WPC)
>
> Pretty simple way it was implemented, too....... Every ball, decrement
> a register, one for every switch that's used in the game. Every time
> that switch is activated, set it back to $1E. At various points, any
> one that gets to 00 (IIRC actually when it decrements to $FF, so they
> can walk through looking for the NEG flag) - put the credit dot up
> there.

You know I just did a hex -> decimal conversion on 1E and came up with 30, don't
you? :)

(And pretty sure you just meant regular switches, not flipper switches on sys 11!)

[seymour.shabow]

TheKorn wrote:
> "seymour.shabow" <seymour...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:l1b49c$q7a$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>>> That's pretty dead on what happens. After 30 balls, the game says
>>> "well, it's dead" and doubles down on the other opto.
>> Self healing switches on flippers activate earlier than 30 balls. (At
>> least they did on system 11, don't see why they wouldn't carry that
>> into WPC)
>>
>> Pretty simple way it was implemented, too....... Every ball, decrement
>> a register, one for every switch that's used in the game. Every time
>> that switch is activated, set it back to $1E. At various points, any
>> one that gets to 00 (IIRC actually when it decrements to $FF, so they
>> can walk through looking for the NEG flag) - put the credit dot up
>> there.
>
> You know I just did a hex -> decimal conversion on 1E and came up with 30, don't
> you? :)
>
> (And pretty sure you just meant regular switches, not flipper switches on sys 11!)
>

Yeah, I did mean the regular switches. I was just rambling on about the
switch error code routines.

All the system 11 games I looked at don't use the ram above $800 or so
even though it usually has 2k ram available. Nice for hacking around :)