1 dan vs "3 dan"
Goran
LaoWangTong 1d vs taiji 1k (How come? I thought it was 2d?)
My only comment was "not just one step ahead..."
Goran
------------------
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]
SZ[19]RU[Japanese]KM[0.50]TM[60]OT[25/180 Canadian]
PW[LaoWanTong]PB[taiji]WR[1d]BR[1k]DT[2004-03-29]PC[The Kiseido Go Server
(KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[taiji [1k\]: Onegaishimasu
LaoWanTong [1d\]: hi
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[qd]BL[53.642]CR[qd]
;W[dp]WL[58.017]CR[dp]
;B[pq]BL[52.130]CR[pq]
;W[dd]WL[55.694]CR[dd]
;B[oc]BL[50.844]CR[oc]
;W[qj]WL[53.178]CR[qj]
;B[qh]BL[48.732]CR[qh]
;W[qm]WL[51.241]CR[qm]
;B[qo]BL[47.074]CR[qo]
;W[dj]WL[38.782]CR[dj]
;B[fq]BL[42.812]CR[fq]
;W[fp]WL[34.796]CR[fp]
;B[gp]BL[38.715]CR[gp]
;W[fo]WL[33.691]CR[fo]
;B[go]BL[38.066]CR[go]
;W[eq]WL[29.227]CR[eq]
;B[gq]BL[36.113]CR[gq]
;W[fn]WL[27.192]CR[fn]
;B[hm]BL[27.324]CR[hm]
;W[mq]WL[20.440]CR[mq]
;B[fc]BL[21.908]CR[fc]
;W[jq]WL[18.256]CR[jq]
;B[cf]BL[18.684]CR[cf]
;W[fd]WL[13.983]CR[fd]
;B[gd]BL[17.242]CR[gd]
;W[fe]WL[12.569]CR[fe]
;B[ec]BL[16.341]CR[ec]
;W[dc]WL[11.240]CR[dc]
;B[hc]BL[10.793]CR[hc]
;W[ce]WL[8.181]CR[ce]
;B[df]BL[173.689]OB[24]CR[df]
;W[de]WL[2.634]CR[de]
;B[dh]BL[172.034]OB[23]CR[dh]
;W[ci]WL[176.895]OW[24]CR[ci]
;B[hf]BL[169.125]OB[22]CR[hf]
;W[eg]WL[171.208]OW[23]CR[eg]
;B[ef]BL[166.423]OB[21]CR[ef]
;W[ff]WL[168.366]OW[22]CR[ff]
;B[eh]BL[164.303]OB[20]CR[eh]
;W[fh]WL[166.803]OW[21]CR[fh]
;B[ej]BL[160.342]OB[19]CR[ej]
;W[ei]WL[163.555]OW[20]CR[ei]
;B[di]BL[159.158]OB[18]CR[di]
;W[fi]WL[161.903]OW[19]CR[fi]
;B[dg]BL[158.103]OB[17]CR[dg]
;W[cj]WL[156.720]OW[18]CR[cj]
;B[fg]BL[156.445]OB[16]CR[fg]
;W[gg]WL[155.339]OW[17]CR[gg]
;B[gf]BL[155.938]OB[15]CR[gf]
;W[hh]WL[151.215]OW[16]CR[hh]
;B[be]BL[152.355]OB[14]CR[be]
;W[bd]WL[149.471]OW[15]CR[bd]
;B[bg]BL[151.703]OB[13]CR[bg]
;W[ae]WL[139.503]OW[14]CR[ae]
;B[ch]BL[147.870]OB[12]CR[ch]
;W[bi]WL[133.976]OW[13]CR[bi]
;B[af]BL[145.614]OB[11]CR[af]
;W[bf]WL[132.508]OW[12]CR[bf]
;B[hg]BL[140.264]OB[10]CR[hg]
;W[gh]WL[119.958]OW[11]CR[gh]
;B[be]BL[138.659]OB[9]CR[be]
;W[ad]WL[111.416]OW[10]CR[ad]
;B[bh]BL[136.997]OB[8]CR[bh]
;W[ah]WL[107.932]OW[9]CR[ah]
;B[ek]BL[128.815]OB[7]CR[ek]
;W[cl]WL[98.096]OW[8]CR[cl]
;B[ih]BL[125.145]OB[6]CR[ih]
;W[ii]WL[86.189]OW[7]CR[ii]
;B[hi]BL[124.103]OB[5]CR[hi]
;W[hj]WL[83.783]OW[6]CR[hj]
;B[gj]BL[119.633]OB[4]CR[gj]
;W[gi]WL[80.846]OW[5]CR[gi]
;B[fj]BL[118.970]OB[3]CR[fj]
;W[hi]WL[79.483]OW[4]CR[hi]
;B[ji]BL[116.754]OB[2]CR[ji]
;W[hk]WL[77.946]OW[3]CR[hk]
;B[gl]BL[116.012]OB[1]CR[gl]
;W[jh]WL[74.772]OW[2]CR[jh]
;B[ig]BL[180.000]OB[25]CR[ig]
;W[jj]WL[73.098]OW[1]CR[jj]
;B[ki]BL[179.260]OB[24]CR[ki]
;W[kj]WL[180.000]OW[25]CR[kj]
;B[db]BL[174.972]OB[23]CR[db]
;W[cb]WL[177.434]OW[24]CR[cb]
;B[ea]BL[172.845]OB[22]CR[ea]
;W[ca]WL[174.782]OW[23]CR[ca]
;B[bc]BL[167.405]OB[21]CR[bc]
;W[cc]WL[168.385]OW[22]CR[cc]
;B[ac]BL[165.475]OB[20]CR[ac]
;W[cd]WL[167.230]OW[21]CR[cd]
;B[ed]BL[161.389]OB[19]CR[ed]
;W[ee]WL[163.920]OW[20]CR[ee]
;B[bb]BL[160.704]OB[18]CR[bb]
;W[ba]WL[156.925]OW[19]CR[ba]
;B[ab]BL[158.803]OB[17]CR[ab]
;W[eg]WL[139.576]OW[18]CR[eg]
;B[jo]BL[150.179]OB[16]CR[jo]
;W[fg]WL[134.281]OW[17]CR[fg]
;B[li]BL[148.880]OB[15]CR[li]
;W[in]WL[118.374]OW[16]CR[in]
;B[hn]BL[116.829]OB[14]CR[hn]
;W[io]WL[114.375]OW[15]CR[io]
;B[im]BL[110.758]OB[13]CR[im]
;W[jn]WL[111.039]OW[14]CR[jn]
;B[jm]BL[109.229]OB[12]CR[jm]
;W[kn]WL[109.859]OW[13]CR[kn]
;B[km]BL[107.615]OB[11]CR[km]
;W[ln]WL[108.657]OW[12]CR[ln]
;B[lj]BL[106.557]OB[10]CR[lj]
;W[lm]WL[106.200]OW[11]CR[lm]
;B[kk]BL[104.289]OB[9]CR[kk]
;W[lk]WL[97.955]OW[10]CR[lk]
;B[jk]BL[103.031]OB[8]CR[jk]
;W[ij]WL[96.183]OW[9]CR[ij]
;B[jp]BL[97.802]OB[7]CR[jp]
;W[ip]WL[94.152]OW[8]CR[ip]
;B[iq]BL[96.419]OB[6]CR[iq]
;W[ir]WL[91.904]OW[7]CR[ir]
;B[hq]BL[93.297]OB[5]CR[hq]
;W[jr]WL[80.132]OW[6]CR[jr]
;B[ll]BL[91.556]OB[4]CR[ll]
;W[mk]WL[77.920]OW[5]CR[mk]
;B[ml]BL[90.482]OB[3]CR[ml]
;W[nk]WL[76.773]OW[4]CR[nk]
;B[nm]BL[89.300]OB[2]CR[nm]
;W[on]WL[73.358]OW[3]CR[on]
;B[om]BL[87.856]OB[1]CR[om]
;W[pn]WL[71.986]OW[2]CR[pn]
;B[pl]BL[180.000]OB[25]CR[pl]
;W[oj]WL[65.701]OW[1]CR[oj]
;B[ql]BL[179.030]OB[24]CR[ql]
;W[rm]WL[180.000]OW[25]CR[rm]
;B[rj]BL[177.927]OB[23]CR[rj]
;W[qk]WL[175.684]OW[24]CR[qk]
;B[rl]BL[166.137]OB[22]CR[rl]
;W[rk]WL[173.669]OW[23]CR[rk]
;B[sk]BL[163.930]OB[21]CR[sk]
;W[ri]WL[171.084]OW[22]CR[ri]
;B[rn]BL[162.519]OB[20]CR[rn]
;W[sm]WL[165.666]OW[21]CR[sm]
;B[sl]BL[161.521]OB[19]CR[sl]
;W[sj]WL[153.730]OW[20]CR[sj]
;B[ok]BL[155.496]OB[18]CR[ok]
;W[nj]WL[149.360]OW[19]CR[nj]
;B[qn]BL[153.321]OB[17]CR[qn]
;W[pm]WL[146.279]OW[18]CR[pm]
;B[no]BL[152.176]OB[16]CR[no]
;W[nn]WL[139.486]OW[17]CR[nn]
;B[mo]BL[132.301]OB[15]CR[mo]
;W[mn]WL[137.341]OW[16]CR[mn]
;B[lp]BL[127.498]OB[14]CR[lp]
;W[kp]WL[125.755]OW[15]CR[kp]
;B[lq]BL[125.430]OB[13]CR[lq]
;W[lr]WL[119.614]OW[14]CR[lr]
;B[kq]BL[124.674]OB[12]CR[kq]
;W[lo]WL[116.383]OW[13]CR[lo]
;B[mp]BL[120.978]OB[11]CR[mp]
;W[kr]WL[110.998]OW[12]CR[kr]
;B[nq]BL[114.737]OB[10]CR[nq]
;W[mr]WL[109.437]OW[11]CR[mr]
;B[kl]BL[103.871]OB[9]CR[kl]
;W[il]WL[104.782]OW[10]CR[il]
;B[nl]BL[100.957]OB[8]CR[nl]
;W[oh]WL[90.791]OW[9]CR[oh]
;B[pi]BL[99.156]OB[7]CR[pi]
;W[pj]WL[87.131]OW[8]CR[pj]
;B[oi]BL[95.515]OB[6]CR[oi]
;W[ni]WL[85.544]OW[7]CR[ni]
;B[rh]BL[94.761]OB[5]CR[rh]
;W[nh]WL[81.735]OW[6]CR[nh]
;B[mg]BL[88.866]OB[4]CR[mg]
;W[of]WL[78.756]OW[5]CR[of]
;B[er]BL[50.398]OB[3]CR[er]
;W[dr]WL[75.246]OW[4]CR[dr]
;B[fr]BL[44.019]OB[2]CR[fr]
;W[hr]WL[72.866]OW[3]CR[hr]
;B[dm]BL[40.071]OB[1]CR[dm]
;W[fl]WL[66.845]OW[2]CR[fl]
;B[el]BL[180.000]OB[25]CR[el]
;W[gm]WL[59.117]OW[1]CR[gm]
;B[gn]BL[166.887]OB[24]CR[gn]
;W[fm]WL[180.000]OW[25]CR[fm]
;B[gk]BL[160.671]OB[23]CR[gk]
;W[hl]WL[177.875]OW[24]CR[hl]
;B[cq]BL[158.732]OB[22]CR[cq]
;W[dq]WL[175.539]OW[23]CR[dq]
;B[cr]BL[157.645]OB[21]CR[cr]
;W[ds]WL[171.768]OW[22]CR[ds]
;B[co]BL[156.654]OB[20]CR[co]
;W[cp]WL[168.585]OW[21]CR[cp]
;B[bp]BL[152.877]OB[19]CR[bp]
;W[bq]WL[146.467]OW[20]CR[bq]
;B[br]BL[143.953]OB[18]CR[br]
;W[bo]WL[144.277]OW[19]CR[bo]
;B[aq]BL[142.785]OB[17]CR[aq]
;W[cn]WL[140.833]OW[18]CR[cn]
;B[bn]BL[138.715]OB[16]CR[bn]
;W[do]WL[126.197]OW[17]CR[do]
;B[cm]BL[135.885]OB[15]CR[cm]
;W[bm]WL[124.336]OW[16]CR[bm]
;B[bl]BL[135.240]OB[14]CR[bl]
;W[an]WL[122.369]OW[15]CR[an]
;B[ck]BL[133.126]OB[13]CR[ck]
;W[bk]WL[119.427]OW[14]CR[bk]
;B[dl]BL[125.833]OB[12]CR[dl]
;W[al]WL[117.261]OW[13]CR[al]
;B[aj]BL[123.136]OB[11]CR[aj]
;W[ak]WL[104.718]OW[12]CR[ak]
;B[ai]BL[116.668]OB[10]CR[ai]
;W[bj]WL[103.158]OW[11]CR[bj]
;B[ai]BL[114.236]OB[9]CR[ai]
;W[aj]WL[97.821]OW[10]CR[aj]
;B[ag]BL[110.581]OB[8]CR[ag]
;W[ai]WL[94.171]OW[9]CR[ai]
;B[dn]BL[98.840]OB[7]CR[dn]
;W[en]WL[89.808]OW[8]CR[en]
;B[ao]BL[92.652]OB[6]CR[ao]
;W[ap]WL[83.846]OW[7]CR[ap]
;B[dk]BL[90.476]OB[5]CR[dk]
;W[cl]WL[73.610]OW[6]CR[cl]
;B[ko]BL[83.920]OB[4]CR[ko]
;W[kp]WL[56.253]OW[5]CR[kp]
;B[bl]BL[65.179]OB[3]CR[bl]
;W[am]WL[50.548]OW[4]CR[am]
;B[ao]BL[64.097]OB[2]CR[ao]
;W[cl]WL[49.274]OW[3]CR[cl]
;B[ap]BL[54.053]OB[1]CR[ap]
;W[bn]WL[46.607]OW[2]CR[bn]
;B[bl]BL[180.000]OB[25]CR[bl]
;W[co]WL[45.122]OW[1]CR[co]
;B[eo]BL[177.390]OB[24]CR[eo]C[taiji [1k\]: hehehe
]
;W[ne]WL[180.000]OW[25]CR[ne]
;B[es]BL[170.026]OB[23]CR[es]C[taiji [1k\]: oh ya that cant work
taiji [1k\]: gmm
]
;W[mc]WL[168.889]OW[24]CR[mc]
;B[qi]BL[165.667]OB[22]CR[qi]
;W[le]WL[161.076]OW[23]CR[le]
;B[nf]BL[164.190]OB[21]CR[nf]
;W[oe]WL[154.443]OW[22]CR[oe]
;B[og]BL[163.058]OB[20]CR[og]
;W[ng]WL[153.299]OW[21]CR[ng]
;B[mf]BL[161.152]OB[19]CR[mf]
;W[pg]WL[151.565]OW[20]CR[pg]
;B[me]BL[157.970]OB[18]CR[me]
;W[nd]WL[149.578]OW[19]CR[nd]
;B[md]BL[154.896]OB[17]CR[md]
;W[nc]WL[148.330]OW[18]CR[nc]
;B[qf]BL[154.408]OB[16]CR[qf]
;W[pc]WL[144.223]OW[17]CR[pc]
;B[ob]BL[144.970]OB[15]CR[ob]
;W[pd]WL[136.498]OW[16]CR[pd]
;B[pb]BL[142.366]OB[14]CR[pb]
;W[qc]WL[134.994]OW[15]CR[qc]
;B[qb]BL[139.440]OB[13]CR[qb]
;W[rc]WL[132.783]OW[14]CR[rc]
;B[pe]BL[134.927]OB[12]CR[pe]
;W[od]WL[130.278]OW[13]CR[od]
;B[rb]BL[133.926]OB[11]CR[rb]
;W[rd]WL[128.340]OW[12]CR[rd]
;B[re]BL[131.294]OB[10]CR[re]
;W[sb]WL[120.380]OW[11]CR[sb]
;B[cs]BL[115.349]OB[9]CR[cs]
;W[ep]WL[116.251]OW[10]CR[ep]
;B[da]BL[104.468]OB[8]CR[da]
;W[ld]WL[102.636]OW[9]CR[ld]
;B[ge]BL[100.064]OB[7]CR[ge]
;W[jc]WL[91.681]OW[8]CR[jc]
;B[ik]BL[93.819]OB[6]CR[ik]
;W[aa]WL[88.677]OW[7]CR[aa]
;B[bb]BL[88.228]OB[5]CR[bb]
;W[kg]WL[81.560]OW[6]CR[kg]
;B[jl]BL[83.058]OB[4]CR[jl]
;W[lg]WL[75.756]OW[5]CR[lg]
;B[bc]BL[77.574]OB[3]CR[bc]
;W[jg]WL[57.816]OW[4]CR[jg]
;B[ab]BL[75.072]OB[2]CR[ab]
;W[ac]WL[55.943]OW[3]CR[ac]
;B[bb]BL[74.394]OB[1]CR[bb]
;W[bf]WL[53.121]OW[2]CR[bf]
;B[jp]BL[180.000]OB[25]CR[jp]
;W[jo]WL[40.897]OW[1]CR[jo]
;B[be]BL[178.355]OB[24]CR[be]
;W[fa]WL[180.000]OW[25]CR[fa]
;B[eb]BL[175.412]OB[23]CR[eb]
;W[bf]WL[177.967]OW[24]CR[bf]C[LaoWanTong [1d\]: ;-)
]
;B[si]BL[152.310]OB[22]CR[si]
;W[sh]WL[174.229]OW[23]CR[sh]
;B[be]BL[151.385]OB[21]CR[be]
;W[gc]WL[172.166]OW[22]CR[gc]
;B[gb]BL[148.632]OB[20]CR[gb]
;W[bf]WL[170.323]OW[21]CR[bf]
;B[sg]BL[126.400]OB[19]CR[sg]
;W[cg]WL[165.903]OW[20]CR[cg]
;B[si]BL[123.003]OB[18]CR[si]
;W[rj]WL[163.289]OW[19]CR[rj]C[taiji [1k\]: hmm, you're just one step ahead
of me
taiji [1k\]: thx hehe
LaoWanTong [1d\]: y
])
Fu, Ren-Li
> Couldn't resist. The last played game I found from 29.3.2004;
>
> LaoWangTong 1d vs taiji 1k (How come? I thought it was 2d?)
>
> My only comment was "not just one step ahead..."
Hi Goran, I took the liberty of looking up your game record and I see that
you also have lost a game against a "1d". So I fail to see your point.
Here's some personal advice: Play some more rated games and lose the "?" on
your account. You're not a *real 3 dan* on KGS until you lose the ?, like I
did on my 3d account with 20+ rated games.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> Couldn't resist. The last played game I found from 29.3.2004;
>
> LaoWangTong 1d vs taiji 1k (How come? I thought it was 2d?)
>
> My only comment was "not just one step ahead..."
>
> Goran
Actually Goran, I must admit you struck home. I was so peeved that you, a
mere 3d"?" player would dare to say such things. So I logged onto KGS and
played the following game... it is my final say on this matter to you until
you shape up and realise who your elders are ;)
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]
SZ[19]RU[Japanese]KM[0.50]TM[60]OT[25/180 Canadian]
PW[LaoWanTong]PB[taiji]WR[1d]BR[1k]DT[2004-03-30]PC[The Kiseido Go Server
(KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[LaoWanTong [1d\]: hi
taiji [1k\]: Put this in your pipe and smoke it, goran ;)
]RE[B+Resign]
;B[pd]BL[38.646]CR[pd]
;W[dp]WL[51.503]CR[dp]
;B[pp]BL[33.924]CR[pp]C[LaoWanTong [1d\]: whtat ?
]
;W[dd]WL[40.909]CR[dd]C[taiji [1k\]: Onegaishimasu.
]
;B[fq]BL[30.275]CR[fq]
;W[fp]WL[37.440]CR[fp]
;B[gp]BL[21.784]CR[gp]
;W[fo]WL[35.859]CR[fo]
;B[eq]BL[19.556]CR[eq]
;W[dq]WL[34.391]CR[dq]
;B[jq]BL[10.854]CR[jq]
;W[cj]WL[31.839]CR[cj]
;B[fc]BL[2.978]CR[fc]
;W[fd]WL[29.308]CR[fd]
;B[gd]BL[0.652]CR[gd]
;W[fe]WL[27.453]CR[fe]
;B[ec]BL[178.725]OB[24]CR[ec]
;W[dc]WL[26.157]CR[dc]
;B[jc]BL[177.149]OB[23]CR[jc]
;W[fj]WL[23.134]CR[fj]
;B[qj]BL[171.157]OB[22]CR[qj]
;W[qc]WL[14.550]CR[qc]
;B[qd]BL[158.833]OB[21]CR[qd]
;W[pc]WL[12.585]CR[pc]
;B[oc]BL[158.281]OB[20]CR[oc]
;W[ob]WL[10.505]CR[ob]
;B[nc]BL[157.604]OB[19]CR[nc]
;W[nb]WL[9.112]CR[nb]
;B[mc]BL[156.721]OB[18]CR[mc]
;W[rd]WL[7.779]CR[rd]
;B[re]BL[155.500]OB[17]CR[re]
;W[rc]WL[6.633]CR[rc]
;B[qf]BL[154.987]OB[16]CR[qf]
;W[qq]WL[4.635]CR[qq]
;B[ij]BL[146.313]OB[15]CR[ij]
;W[pq]WL[1.429]CR[pq]
;B[op]BL[143.793]OB[14]CR[op]
;W[qo]WL[179.483]OW[24]CR[qo]
;B[qp]BL[141.942]OB[13]CR[qp]
;W[rp]WL[177.729]OW[23]CR[rp]
;B[or]BL[123.341]OB[12]CR[or]
;W[qm]WL[171.597]OW[22]CR[qm]
;B[rq]BL[104.208]OB[11]CR[rq]
;W[rr]WL[167.480]OW[21]CR[rr]
;B[ro]BL[103.519]OB[10]CR[ro]
;W[sq]WL[166.104]OW[20]CR[sq]
;B[qn]BL[102.879]OB[9]CR[qn]
;W[rn]WL[163.486]OW[19]CR[rn]
;B[po]BL[102.032]OB[8]CR[po]
;W[so]WL[162.118]OW[18]CR[so]
;B[rm]BL[101.516]OB[7]CR[rm]
;W[qo]WL[160.791]OW[17]CR[qo]
;B[pn]BL[99.581]OB[6]CR[pn]
;W[rl]WL[158.383]OW[16]CR[rl]
;B[pm]BL[96.606]OB[5]CR[pm]
;W[ql]WL[156.519]OW[15]CR[ql]
;B[pk]BL[95.429]OB[4]CR[pk]
;W[ge]WL[148.848]OW[14]CR[ge]
;B[hd]BL[93.426]OB[3]CR[hd]
;W[if]WL[146.711]OW[13]CR[if]
;B[jf]BL[90.388]OB[2]CR[jf]
;W[ig]WL[143.967]OW[12]CR[ig]
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;B[bd]BL[123.955]OB[14]CR[bd]
;W[ce]WL[177.823]OW[24]CR[ce]C[taiji [1k\]: sorry heh
]
(;B[ad]BL[122.850]OB[13]CR[ad]
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(;B[be]BL[121.804]OB[13]CR[be]
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;B[mq]BL[139.753]OB[9]CR[mq]C[taiji [1k\]: Thanks.
LaoWanTong [1d\]: thx
]))
Denis Feldmann
> Goran wrote:
>
>> Couldn't resist. The last played game I found from 29.3.2004;
>>
>> LaoWangTong 1d vs taiji 1k (How come? I thought it was 2d?)
>>
>> My only comment was "not just one step ahead..."
>>
>> Goran
>
> Actually Goran, I must admit you struck home. I was so peeved that
> you, a mere 3d"?" player would dare to say such things. So I logged
> onto KGS and played the following game... it is my final say on this
> matter to you until you shape up and realise who your elders are ;)
A look at that game is indeed convincing.
Vit Brunner
> Couldn't resist. The last played game I found from 29.3.2004;
>
> LaoWangTong 1d vs taiji 1k (How come? I thought it was 2d?)
>
> My only comment was "not just one step ahead..."
>
> Goran
>
Hey, this was cool. I will watch not to play Fu, as I find his style of
playing disgusting and offending. He was losing by a lot, yet tried to
take away liberties by inconspicuously playing dame in the middle game.
Players like this (in my experience) dont get very strong.
His manners are childlish, trying to trick opponent, bragging about his
rank, and insulting other players.
Vit
--
,~'^^'~. When responding ,qdWWbp,
( ) change "nospam" (WMWMMWMW)
`~.,,.~` to "volny", VB. `"YMMP"`
Tweedie
----delete----
>Hey, this was cool. I will watch not to play Fu, as I find his style of
>playing disgusting and offending. He was losing by a lot, yet tried to
>take away liberties by inconspicuously playing dame in the middle game.
>Players like this (in my experience) dont get very strong.
>His manners are childlish, trying to trick opponent, bragging about his
>rank, and insulting other players.
>Vit
Yes, just like he used to do on IGS. He hasn't changed
much.
, ,
/( )\
\ \_/ / , /\ ,
/_ _\ /| || |\
| \> </ | |\_||_/|
(_ ^ _) \____/
/`\|IIIII|/`\ _\/_
\ \_____/ / ()
/\ )=( /\ ()
jgs / `-.\=/.-' \ ()
Trunk
news:c4eifi$1e57$1...@news.vol.cz...
> Hey, this was cool. I will watch not to play Fu, as I find his style of
> playing disgusting and offending. He was losing by a lot, yet tried to
> take away liberties by inconspicuously playing dame in the middle game.
What does your last sentence mean ? can you elaborate ?
> Players like this (in my experience) dont get very strong.
Also is the 1k player, the infamous Fu ? :)
Fu, Ren-Li
> Hey, this was cool. I will watch not to play Fu, as I find his style of
> playing disgusting and offending. He was losing by a lot <snip>
I was?
I was 70 points ahead when LaoWanTong resigned. Strange that you did not
understand this.
BTW, I'm not bragging, I really am 3d.
-frl
Alex Papadimitriu
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
Yes, Oliver Richman, alias Fu Ren-Li, you are bragging. Cornel explained how
IGS helped
him advance from 2k to 6d, but you came here to proclaim how much better your
performance
was compared to Cornel, and brag you will overtake him. Then you show us a
game and
announce, "I was 70 points ahead when LaoWanTong resigned". You are the
only crybaby I
recall in this news group to brag how great you are and brag about your 3d,
which is dubious.
How many people come here bragging they are 3d and better than an established
and seasoned
player?
Fu, Ren-Li
>> Vit Brunner wrote:
>> BTW, I'm not bragging, I really am 3d.
>>
>> -frl
>
> Yes, Oliver Richman, alias Fu Ren-Li, you are bragging. Cornel explained
> how IGS helped him advance from 2k to 6d, but you came here to proclaim
> how much better your performance was compared to Cornel
This is not true, I did not say I performed better than Cornel did at Go.
Cornel is amateur 6d and by defenition performs better than an amateur 3d.
> and brag you will overtake him.
I merely pointed out that I am improving at such a rate that if
(hypothetically) both cornel and I continue to improve at the same rate,
then in a year or two we should be of even strength. This is a simple fact.
The comments were made because Cornel wrongly assumed I was vastly (5-6
stones) weaker than him, when the real difference is probably 3 or at most
4 stones.
> Then you show us a game and announce, "I was 70 points ahead when
> LaoWanTong resigned".
This was done for two reasons:
1. Someone said that I lost 5 of my last 7 games.
2. Someone posted a game where I lost to LaoWanTong by about 30 points or
so.
Because of 1 and 2, I merely wished to inform the OPers that although I did
in fact lose 5 of 7 games, I recently won *6 of my last 8 games*, the first
win of which was against LaoWanTong by 70 points.
I am not the crybaby, I was merely correcting the mistakes in the OPs.
> You are the only crybaby I recall in this news group to brag how great
> you are and brag about your 3d, which is dubious.
Not dubious at all, I maintain a 3d (notice 3d not 3d?) account.
> How many people come here bragging they are 3d and better than an
> established and seasoned player?
Zero as far as I can remember.
-frl
Vit Brunner
> I merely pointed out that I am improving at such a rate that if
> (hypothetically) both cornel and I continue to improve at the same rate,
> then in a year or two we should be of even strength. This is a simple fact.
>
No, it is not, gaining of strength (or grades, in your case) is non-linear.
> The comments were made because Cornel wrongly assumed I was vastly (5-6
> stones) weaker than him, when the real difference is probably 3 or at most
> 4 stones.
Yes, you are vastly weaker than him. Vastly weaker than 3 or 4 stones
behind Cornel.
>>Then you show us a game and announce, "I was 70 points ahead when
>>LaoWanTong resigned".
>
>
> This was done for two reasons:
>
> 1. Someone said that I lost 5 of my last 7 games.
> 2. Someone posted a game where I lost to LaoWanTong by about 30 points or
> so.
>
Please look at the game once more, it is not 30 points "or so". It is at
least 150 points, more like 200 points (if it makes sense to count it at
all)
<skipping that crap>
Fu, Ren-Li
>
>> I merely pointed out that I am improving at such a rate that if
>> (hypothetically) both cornel and I continue to improve at the same rate,
>> then in a year or two we should be of even strength. This is a simple
>> fact.
>>
>
> No, it is not, gaining of strength (or grades, in your case) is
> non-linear.
In my case, strength gain *has been linear*. One only has to check the slope
of my ratings graph on KGS. Except for a period of improvement and
stagnation which was probably due to outside variables, my valleys form a
linear progression in line with my original valleys.
>
>> The comments were made because Cornel wrongly assumed I was vastly (5-6
>> stones) weaker than him, when the real difference is probably 3 or at
>> most 4 stones.
>
> Yes, you are vastly weaker than him. Vastly weaker than 3 or 4 stones
> behind Cornel.
Conclusive proof disagrees:
1. Cornel is amateur 6d
2. I am amateur 3d
3. I seem to have this strange habit of winning by resign or more than 20
points.
> <skipping that crap>
You mean the crap about how I turned around and beat the same 1d I lost to
on my *very next game*, going on to win 6 out of my next 8 games, usually
by large margins or resign?
-frl
Vit Brunner
Fu, Ren-Li wrote:
You probably missed the most important part of my post, here it is again:
<
Please look at the game once more, it is not 30 points "or so". It is at
least 150 points, more like 200 points (if it makes sense to count it at
all)
>
--
Alex Papadimitriu
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
> Vit Brunner wrote:
>
>
> > Yes, you are vastly weaker than him. Vastly weaker than 3 or 4 stones
> > behind Cornel.
>
> Conclusive proof disagrees:
>
> 1. Cornel is amateur 6d
Cornel is 6d* at IGS
>
> 2. I am amateur 3d
You are not 3d* at IGS, and your claims to 3d are weak. Probably
you would be less than 1d* at IGS. :-)
>
> 3. I seem to have this strange habit of winning by resign or more than 20
> points.
You have this habit of whining, bragging, and how much you win by.
Obviously you are not secure about your dubious claims to 3d. You
need to keep bragging about yourself.
Fu, Ren-Li
>> 3. I seem to have this strange habit of winning by resign or more than 20
>> points.
>
> You have this habit of whining, bragging, and how much you win by.
I didn't bring it up in the recent thread. That was done by Steve, you and
Vit. I merely responded in kind to set the record straight.
> Obviously you are not secure about your dubious claims to 3d. You
> need to keep bragging about yourself.
I'm not bragging, I am merely explaining how wrong you are about how strong
I am. The only other conclusive proof I can give you is if we play a series
of games (on KGS). You can take that as a challenge, more than this I
cannot do to open your mind.
-frl
Patrick G. Bridges
> You mean the crap about how I turned around and beat the same 1d I lost to
> on my *very next game*, going on to win 6 out of my next 8 games, usually
> by large margins or resign?
Three words: "small sample size". You seem to be complaining about
people citing a small sample of your games (lost 5 out of 7) to say
you are weak and then turn around to cite another small sample (6 out
of 8) to show that you're not. Both have the same problem that they're
relying on a small sample that apparently has a lot of variation to
show something; both could very well be wrong
It makes *much* more sense to rely on the *full* sample from your
taiji account which has 30 rated games in the last month and 50 rated
games in the last 2 months, as opposed to your other account "3d"
which has only *2* rated games in the last month and *total* 20 rated
games, *fewer rated games than you've played on the taiji accoun in
the last month*. Which does it make more sense to trust the rank of?
An account with 30 rated games in the last month which puts you as a
strong or improving 1k or an account with 20 rated games *total* and
only 2 in the last month that puts you as a 3d?
--
-Patrick Bridges bri...@cs.arizona.edu GPG Key ID = CB074C71
GPG Key fingerprint = FEEA ECFF 1E23 148C 2804 FDD9 DB63 6993 CB07 4C71
"Anyone that can't make money on Sports Night should get out of the
money-making business" - Calvin, on the last episode of Sports Night
Fu, Ren-Li
Hi. If there is an account with a 50% win/loss ratio over the last 180 days
at 2 kyu, how long will it take to advance to 1 kyu? Assume the prospective
1 kyu suddenly starts winning 67% of his games.
-frl
Alex Papadimitriu
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
> I'm not bragging, I am merely explaining how wrong you are about how strong
> I am. The only other conclusive proof I can give you is if we play a series
> of games (on KGS). You can take that as a challenge, more than this I
> cannot do to open your mind.
>
> -frl
I played three IGS games with you some time ago. In one game you kept playing
random silly moves instead of scoring, and twice you escaped from lost games.
I placed you on my bozo list. :-)
Fu, Ren-Li
> I played three IGS games with you some time ago. In one game you kept
> playing random silly moves instead of scoring, and twice you escaped from
> lost games.
> I placed you on my bozo list. :-)
When was that, when I was 25k?
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> Couldn't resist. The last played game I found from 29.3.2004;
>
> LaoWangTong 1d vs taiji 1k (How come? I thought it was 2d?)
Third time's the charm, I always say.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.50]TM[60]OT[25/180 Canadian]
PW[LaoWanTong]PB[taiji]WR[1d]BR[1k]DT[2004-04-01]PC[The Kiseido Go Server
(KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[LaoWanTong [1d\]: hi
taiji [1k\]: Onegaishimasu
]RE[B+Resign]
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;B[md]BL[180]OB[25]CR[md]
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;W[nh]WL[174.469]OW[23]CR[nh]
;B[mg]BL[175.173]OB[23]CR[mg]
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;W[jh]WL[167.281]OW[20]CR[jh]
;B[ji]BL[169.723]OB[20]CR[ji]
;W[kh]WL[165.249]OW[19]CR[kh]
;B[kl]BL[168.771]OB[19]CR[kl]
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;B[ml]BL[163.433]OB[18]CR[ml]
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;B[lj]BL[134.68]OB[15]CR[lj]
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;W[oj]WL[134.404]OW[12]CR[oj]
;B[pn]BL[130.082]OB[12]CR[pn]
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;B[ie]BL[108.812]OB[11]CR[ie]
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;W[hd]WL[86.106]OW[9]CR[hd]
;B[id]BL[104.1]OB[9]CR[id]
;W[kf]WL[50.927]OW[8]CR[kf]
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;W[sd]WL[7.952]OW[11]CR[sd]
;B[ql]BL[66.591]OB[11]CR[ql]C[LaoWanTong [1d\]: thx
taiji [1k\]: xie
])
-
>> The "Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
>>> I'm not bragging, I am merely explaining how wrong you are about
>>> how strong I am. The only other conclusive proof I can give you is if
>>> we play a series of games (on KGS). You can take that as a challenge,
>>> more than this I cannot do to open your mind.
> Alex Papadimitriu <hesp...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> I played three IGS games with you some time ago. In one game you
>> kept playing random silly moves instead of scoring, and twice you escaped
>> from lost games. I placed you on my bozo list. :-)
Really Possible: The "Fu, Ren-Li" is worth the placement on the list?
The "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> ... If there is an account with a 50% win/loss ratio over the last 180 days
> at 2 kyu, how long will it take to advance to 1 kyu? Assume the
> prospective 1 kyu suddenly starts winning 67% of his games.
Any rank could be the "prospective 1 kyu." As along as the `any rank'
continues to win 67% of the games, then `any rank' could hold all Titles.
The "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> ... I was 25k
Stay on the "merrie-go-`round," then you'll get another of the chance.
- regards
- jb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... and you thought the -One- Earth was bad enough ... :-)
Galaxy holds the dozens of the other Earths, the astronomer suggests...
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/how_many_habitable_earths.html?142004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JKP
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:WT0bc.4352$qiw1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Depends on the rating system obviously. At least on KGS, it also depends on
how many games you have played during that 180 days.
On KGS, if you have played lots of games on an account, which you think is
underranked, it is best to make a new account and play there.
If you like your original account, you can come back to it after a month or
2, and now rating will move very quickly (if you win games ...). The rating
of your original account doesn't necessarily improve faster this way, but
you get to play 'better' games on your new account (assuming you are correct
about being underranked).
Well, this should be on KGS faq or something already, I think.
jkp
Fu, Ren-Li
> Well, this should be on KGS faq or something already, I think.
>
> jkp
It is, I think - but it is also totally useless information and does not
answer the original question.
The answer provided indicates that there is *no* answer to the original
question, which is usually something about fixing an underranked account,
or how to clear the ratings record on an account.
Isn't it strange you can start a *new* account but can't start your rated
status from scratch on *your* account? This could easily be done on any go
server.
-frl
Michael Alford
Heh heh, here we see the real reason Fu rat left IGS and went
elsewhere, he couldn't make dan level on IGS :)
Cheers all,
Michael
Roy Schmidt
> Isn't it strange you can start a *new* account but can't start your
rated
> status from scratch on *your* account? This could easily be done on
any go
> server.
I don't think so. When you play rated games, your account + rating is
tied to each player you play, and through them to others they play,
etc. Zeroing out your account would affect a lot of other ratings.
--
my reply-to address is gostoned at insightbb dot com
-------------------------------------------------
Roy Schmidt
Part-time Translator for Yutopian
Full-time Professor of Business Computer Systems
Bradley University
Tweedie
>"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> writes:
>> You mean the crap about how I turned around and beat the same 1d I lost to
>> on my *very next game*, going on to win 6 out of my next 8 games, usually
>> by large margins or resign?
>Three words: "small sample size". You seem to be complaining about
>people citing a small sample of your games (lost 5 out of 7) to say
>you are weak and then turn around to cite another small sample (6 out
>of 8) to show that you're not. Both have the same problem that they're
>relying on a small sample that apparently has a lot of variation to
>show something; both could very well be wrong
However, a 3d might lose an occasional game to a player
ranked within 2k - 1d, but a 3d would not lose 5 out of
7 games playing as a 1k. If he did, then he's certainly
not a 3d player. :-)
Steve Fawthrop wrote 3/30/2004:
"He (Fu, Ren-Li) lost 5 of his last 7 playing as a 1k
on KGS :-)
Andrew Walkingshaw
> bri...@lectura.CS.Arizona.EDU (Patrick G. Bridges) writes:
[frl and statistics]
> However, a 3d might lose an occasional game to a player
> ranked within 2k - 1d, but a 3d would not lose 5 out of
> 7 games playing as a 1k. If he did, then he's certainly
> not a 3d player. :-)
Stop the press. We've found the issue on which KGS and IGS admins
aren't indirectly sniping at each other!
frl: why is it so important to you to call yourself 3d?
- A
--
andrew walkingshaw | andrew...@lexical.org.uk is a spamtrap, don't mail it
"they must have come to a secret understanding..."
Fu, Ren-Li
> In article <406C67A3...@pacbell.net>, Alex Papadimitriu
> <hesp...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
>>
>>> Vit Brunner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > Yes, you are vastly weaker than him. Vastly weaker than 3 or 4 stones
>>> > behind Cornel.
>>>
>>> Conclusive proof disagrees:
>>>
>>> 1. Cornel is amateur 6d
>>
>>Cornel is 6d* at IGS
Cornel has said that he is amateur 6d. His IGS rating is irrelevant.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> Isn't it strange you can start a *new* account but can't start your
> rated
>> status from scratch on *your* account? This could easily be done on
> any go
>> server.
>
> I don't think so. When you play rated games, your account + rating is
> tied to each player you play, and through them to others they play,
> etc. Zeroing out your account would affect a lot of other ratings.
Not if it was imp[lemented sensibly.
Every player has a current player ID and a list of previously used player
IDs. A game on the server, for rating purposes, is considered to be between
two player IDs.
This way, you can always see that a certain game was played between two
named accounts. You can also reset an account's rating by assigning it a
new player ID.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
... > a 3d might lose an occasional game to a player
> ranked within 2k - 1d, but a 3d would not lose 5 out of
> 7 games playing as a 1k. If he did, then he's certainly
> not a 3d player. :-)
>
>
> Steve Fawthrop wrote 3/30/2004:
>
> "He (Fu, Ren-Li) lost 5 of his last 7 playing as a 1k
> on KGS :-)
First of all, you're wrong.
Secondly, you're spreading misinformation. That's not like you, tweedie!
It is (for the last 3 days) well known I've actually won more than 5 out of
my more than 7 last games (7 out of 9 at last count.. or was that 8 out of
10?)
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> frl: why is it so important to you to call yourself 3d?
Because I win about 50% of my games against korean 2d players, I beat a
chinese 3d 4 times in a row, I won 7-0 as 1d in last year's TGC
self-pairing tournament, and most importantly, because I have a 3d account
on KGS.
A better question would be why certain people are *unable to accept* that I
am that strong.
-frl
-
>> The "Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
>>> 3. I seem to have this strange habit of winning by resign
>>> or more than 20 points.
Alex Papadimitriu <hesp...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> You have this habit of whining, bragging, and how much you
>> win by. Obviously you are not secure about your dubious
>> claims to 3d. You need to keep bragging about yourself.
ma...@spiritone.com (Michael Alford) wrote:
> Heh heh, here we see the real reason Fu rat left IGS and went
> elsewhere, he couldn't make dan level on IGS :)
More specifically, The "Fu, Ren-Li" plays on KGS. The ease by
which "high ranks may be obtained" (on KGS) is one major drawing
power. According to a (former) -top- Microsoft Programmer, other
factors also include the nice KGS client and ability to obtain games.
"Friendliness" was not cited: all Go Servers are equivalently friendly.
It is especially gratifying (for some) to enjoy "Breakthrough to Shodan"
on KGS, when this cannot be obtained elsewhere. Perhaps Bill Gates
is playing on KGS this very second, so do not miss your opportunity.
The "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Cornel has said that he is amateur 6d.
Are you comparing yourself to Cornel ?
> His IGS rating is irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what ?
- regards
- jb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The 'Tigger' arrested on the molestation charges
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-bk-tigger040204,0,396560.story?coll=orl-home-headlines
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Lawrence
> A better question would be why certain people are *unable to accept* that I
> am that strong.
Fu, far from not accepting it I believe nobody, apart from you, gives a
monkey's about it. If you're going to keep going on about your rank
it's time to put up or shut up - show us this 3 dan account or stop
going on about it.
--
Chris
Tweedie
>Andrew Walkingshaw wrote:
>> frl: why is it so important to you to call yourself 3d?
>Because I win about 50% of my games against korean 2d players, I beat a
>chinese 3d 4 times in a row, I won 7-0 as 1d in last year's TGC
>self-pairing tournament, and most importantly, because I have a 3d account
>on KGS.
More bragging.
Fu, Ren-Li
> "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> writes:
>
>>Andrew Walkingshaw wrote:
>
>>> frl: why is it so important to you to call yourself 3d?
>
>>Because I win about 50% of my games against korean 2d players, I beat a
>>chinese 3d 4 times in a row, I won 7-0 as 1d in last year's TGC
>>self-pairing tournament, and most importantly, because I have a 3d account
>>on KGS.
>
>
> More bragging.
It's not bragging. In fact I am ashamed to be 3d. I wish I was 9d? on KGS.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Fu, Ren-Li wrote:
>
>> A better question would be why certain people are *unable to accept* that
>> I am that strong.
>
> Fu, far from not accepting it I believe nobody, apart from you, gives a
> monkey's about it.
Then why do people come and post ridiculous garbage like one single game
which I lost, or say other stuff like I lost x of y games? If that is so
important to people, I've already posted 2 games in which I won against the
same person, and my win/loss now is greater than my loss/win was back then,
so..... I was only doing it for their benefit.
> If you're going to keep going on about your rank
> it's time to put up or shut up - show us this 3 dan account or stop
> going on about it.
I play anonymously for reasons I cannot reveal ;)
-frl
JKP
> JKP wrote:
>
> > Well, this should be on KGS faq or something already, I think.
> >
> > jkp
>
> It is, I think - but it is also totally useless information and does not
> answer the original question.
Well, it cannot be totally useless because it has been useful to me. And I
bet to many others. Sorry that I cannot help you.
jkp
Jeff Nowakowski
>
> I have a 3d account on KGS.
taiji [1k]
My "other" car is a BMW.
-Jeff
Vit Brunner
>> a 3d might lose an occasional game to a player ranked within 2k -
>> 1d, but a 3d would not lose 5 out of 7 games playing as a 1k. If he
>> did, then he's certainly not a 3d player. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> "He (Fu, Ren-Li) lost 5 of his last 7 playing as a 1k on KGS :-)
>
>
> First of all, you're wrong.
>
> Secondly, you're spreading misinformation. That's not like you,
> tweedie!
>
> It is (for the last 3 days) well known I've actually won more than 5
> out of my more than 7 last games (7 out of 9 at last count.. or was
> that 8 out of 10?)
>
> -frl
First of all, Tweedie is right (it is not normal for 3dan player to lose
games with kyu players more than very rarely).
It may be well known that you won 7 out of your 9 last games, but you
are probably just hiding that you had a losing streak before that.
Vit
--
,~'^^'~. When responding ,qdWWbp,
( ) change "nospam" (WMWMMWMW)
`~.,,.~` to "volny", VB. `"YMMP"`
Michael Alford
No, it is not, not if you are going to argue playing strength. Cornel
is 6d* 35 on IGS. That 35 is his rating, ie his playing strength
against all other IGS accounts. As noted in another article, IGS is a
tough place to hold a rank\rating, and it's getting tougher all the
time, a factor I like. Currently, I am finding AGA 5d at the IGS 1d
level and Euro 2d down in the kyu ranks. Pro strength on IGS starts at
7d* 36 and goes up to the current 8d* and 9d*. Cornel is also, I
believe, now 7d in Romania, and is in the top 15 in Europe. You, on
the other hand, are claiming to be 3d based on an imaginary (so far)
KGS account, a server notorious for weak ranks. That KGS 3d account
probably isn't worth more than 1k 28 on IGS. So, Cornel's playing
strength is 35, yours would be 28. Let's put this in perspective:
Cornel gives 3d* on IGS h4 and wins. If you played a jubango with an
IGS 3d, you would be forced to take a handicap, and you might not win
a single game. I doubt you could win a jubango with an IGS 1d, perhaps
not against a 1k. Legrande (IGS 3k) challenged you, so did I. No one
believes your boast Fu rat, and no one will. It's absurd, and silly.
Cornel is 6d on IGS, Fu is 3d on KGS, and Fu wants to claim this puts
him only three stones from Cornel. Well, we all have our dreams. I'd
like to someday be solid rating 32 on IGS. That's still a couple
stones away, but I take lessons, I study a bit, I play a bit, I watch
a lot, and I participate in group discussions*. Fu's dream seems to be
to be recognized as a strong player by other players. I would have no
difficulty doing that, if presented with the evidence. However,
whining to rgg that a KGS 3d account puts you within three stones of
Cornel is not going to get the job done, especially when everyone
reading rgg knows how specious that is, how absurd. No, Fu, rating is
relevant to this argument. And you, even at KGS 3d, probably aren't
within six stones of Cornel.
Cheers everyone,
Michael
* IGS currently has a couple player organized discussion groups going,
and there will probably be more. This is partly a result of Cornel's
teaching. All his students can watch any other lessons, and
participate in the reviews. This has led to active game commentary in
channel during play, discussion of positions after the game, and most
recently, to the formation of a joseki study group. This group meets
Sunday at 12:30PM Pacific time, and is intended for players up to dan
level. I am sure that in the near future there will be a fuseki study
group as well. So, come on over and join the fun and learning on IGS!
Patrick G. Bridges
> [Silliness about the use of the word "The" in an IGS post.]
jazze...@hotmail.com (-) writes:
> I'm fairly confident that the KGS rating system will accomodate it.
ma...@spiritone.com (Michael Alford) writes:
> You, on
> the other hand, are claiming to be 3d based on an imaginary (so far)
> KGS account, a server notorious for weak ranks.
*Sigh* Please don't use this increasingly pointless spat as an excuse
to badmouth KGS (or IGS, frl). What's the point of such statements
except to try to troll up yet another stupid server flame war, when
they've been (thankfully) relatively absent lately?
Malf, I know that you "enjoyed being... [a] flame warrior, and shill",
to use your own words, but everyone needs to realize that such flaming
does nothing to raise the level of discussion in this newsgroup, does
not help IGS, KGS, or any other server, and perhaps most importantly
is IMO bad for the game as it can drive people from this newsgroup and
the game itself.
Please stop.
--
-Patrick Bridges bri...@cs.unm.edu GPG Key ID = CB074C71
-
Patrick G. Bridges <bri...@cs.unm.edu> wrote:
> ... perhaps most importantly is IMO bad for the game as it can drive
Hmmmm. I was under the impression that people on this newsgroup were
driven FROM the game to fritter-away their time here, instead of there.
- regards
- jb
-----------------------------------------------------------
Air America Radio
http://www.airamericaradio.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Fu, Ren-Li
> First of all, Tweedie is right (it is not normal for 3dan player to lose
> games with kyu players more than very rarely).
Yes but tweedie was also wrong (I did not lose 5 of my 7 "last" games, and I
am, in fact, 3d).
> It may be well known that you won 7 out of your 9 last games, but you
> are probably just hiding that you had a losing streak before that.
By the same token I will then say the OP was trying to hide the fact that I
was on an x+y to x winning streak before losing 4 or 5 in a row.
I didn't start this Vit. I had some constructive criticism a while ago, and
instead of trying to listen to what I was saying, you and others (notably
steve) picked on the basic assumption and chided me. Granted, I provided no
proof of the assumption but I since have, and you people still don't get
it. I am 3d, there is a problem with the ratings system (it's slow). It's
not a brag, it's not an attack. They are observations of fact.
I wouldn't mind going back to the original discussion about "the last 20
rated games quick index" (index only considers last 20 rated games) and/or
a "monthly index" (games played within 30 days).
These are good ideas.
-frl
Alex Papadimitriu
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
> Vit Brunner wrote:
>
> > First of all, Tweedie is right (it is not normal for 3dan player to lose
> > games with kyu players more than very rarely).
>
> Yes but tweedie was also wrong (I did not lose 5 of my 7 "last" games, and I
> am, in fact, 3d).
Now you're just playing word games. Tweedie was clearly
referencing Fawthrop's post on March 30, 04, not the here and
now.
None at KGS have backed your 3d claims. Quite the contrary is
true. Two KGS admins and a few KGS players cast doubt on
your 3d rank. You won't even divulge your secret 3d account.
This is reminiscent of your 2d claims only a few months ago.
On the otherhand Cornel would have no trouble backing his IGS
6d*.
Chris Lawrence
> >> A better question would be why certain people are *unable to accept* that
> >> I am that strong.
> >
> > Fu, far from not accepting it I believe nobody, apart from you, gives a
> > monkey's about it.
>
> Then why do people come and post ridiculous garbage like one single game
> which I lost, or say other stuff like I lost x of y games?
Because you've made a claim which you are unable to back up, while
others have made counter-claims which they have easily been able to back
up. Nobody cares less what your rank is but people will react when you
come out with arrogant bare-faced lies about your skill and expect them
to accept it.
> > If you're going to keep going on about your rank
> > it's time to put up or shut up - show us this 3 dan account or stop
> > going on about it.
>
> I play anonymously for reasons I cannot reveal ;)
You can't reveal the name of your 3 dan account, you've had to run away
from the handicap game offer from Legrande, you've had to run away from
the game offer from Cornel, and your taiji game history reveals you to
be at best a weak 1k. You really should consider shutting your mouth
and lying low for a while before you embarrass yourself any further.
--
Chris
Fu, Ren-Li
> On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Fu, Ren-Li wrote:
>
>> ... why do people come and post ridiculous garbage like one single game
>> which I lost, or say other stuff like I lost x of y games?
>
> Because you've made a claim which you are unable to back up, while
> others have made counter-claims which they have easily been able to back
> up.
The counter claims appear to be that I lost a game against a 1d and that I
lost 5 of 7 games.
Actually, those counter claims have not so "easily" been backed up since I
have actually won against that 1d twice in a row by far more than I lost,
and last count taken I won 8 of my last 10 games.
> Nobody cares less what your rank is but people will react when you
> come out with arrogant bare-faced lies about your skill and expect them
> to accept it.
Arrogant barefaced lies? Come now Chris, just because I choose not to reveal
my account name here (and ask kindly that others do not do so on R.G.G.)
does not mean that the account and associated rating does not exist.
>> I play anonymously for reasons I cannot reveal ;)
>
> You can't reveal the name of your 3 dan account, you've had to run away
> from the handicap game offer from Legrande,
Sure, if you call running away asking it to be held on KGS.
> you've had to run away from the game offer from Cornel,
Sure, if you call an offer for jubango or a request an account name "taiji"
be set up for me running away...
> and your taiji game history reveals you to
> be at best a weak 1k.
I've won 8 of my last 10 games.
> You really should consider shutting your mouth and lying low for a while
> before you embarrass yourself any further.
You should consider why you find it so difficult to believe what I say.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> None at KGS have backed your 3d claims. Quite the contrary is
> true. Two KGS admins and a few KGS players cast doubt on
> your 3d rank.
...which is strange, because Steve asked me point blank what my 3d account
was, and I told him.
> You won't even divulge your secret 3d account.
Not here, and probably not to you even in private.
-frl
PhysicsGenius
>
> I've won 8 of my last 10 games.
Against whom? Games won against 3 and 4ks don't
count towards a claim of being 3d when you give
them a handi suitable for you being 1k.
Since you claim to be a dan level player, let us
only accept data where you play against dans and
see how often you win. Furthermore let us expand
the dataset to include everything played this year.
You have played 22 games against 1d or higher this
year, of which you won 8. Scanning through the
handis, they were almost all set assuming you were
1k or 2k (depending on the date of the game).
Conclusion: You are weaker than 1d.
PS: I can't believe I'm biting on this again.
Chris Lawrence
> > You can't reveal the name of your 3 dan account, you've had to run away
> > from the handicap game offer from Legrande,
>
> Sure, if you call running away asking it to be held on KGS.
>
> > you've had to run away from the game offer from Cornel,
>
> Sure, if you call an offer for jubango or a request an account name "taiji"
> be set up for me running away...
Fu, it's clear to me that you're a scared, lost little boy looking for
acceptance from the people around you in order to accept yourself. I
hope these games teach you a few things and help you to become a happier
person.
--
Chris
Olli Lounela
Fu, Ren-Li <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>It's not bragging. In fact I am ashamed to be 3d. I wish I was 9d? on KGS.
But you are. KGS ranks don't necessarily mean much.
Case in point, I am _at_least_ IGS 3d* (and have accounts to prove it.) In a
real world tournament this weekend, I beat an established KGS 5-6d (it
varies with time) without any real problems. My Real World grade is
currently 3 dan; I got demoted on request from 4 dan a bit more than a year
ago. This probably means I'd be about 5-6 dan in US, definitely 6 dan in
Japan, and of Korea and China I have no idea.
Now, Cornel is stronger then me, and I would definitely feel uncomfortable
playing him on even. I would be quite hard put to beat him on two stones,
and would probably feel uneasy at three stones. Can't really say how many
stones I'd actually need before I try playing a few games with him.
Where does this put your claim of being 3 dan, being strong, belittling
Cornel, and your claim of equality of all gradings? Right, squarely in the
garbage bin.
I strongly suggest you to get a life.
--
ObOlli ...and he thought I'm serious! Hahahaha...
Dieter Verhofstadt
I'm 3d-4d on KGS and about 750th in the European rating list. There
must be thousands of Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, maybe even a
hundred thousand, who play better than me. I'm 3d and I'm a nobody.
That's how I feel about it. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the game
and trying to understand it.
So, "bragging" is not the adequate term when you say you are 3d.
Shyness and modesty are probably more appropriate. Hence, all my
respect to a player who has the courage to admit in public that he's
only 3d.
Dieter
Fu, Ren-Li
Dieter, thank you for agreeing with me.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> In article <1Psbc.11376$RTF1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
> Fu, Ren-Li <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>>It's not bragging. In fact I am ashamed to be 3d. I wish I was 9d? on KGS.
>
> But you are. KGS ranks don't necessarily mean much.
>
But I'm not. The OP is about a quick index of rated games, not a platform
for bragging per se.
> Case in point, I am _at_least_ IGS 3d* (and have accounts to prove it.) In
> a real world tournament this weekend, I beat an established KGS 5-6d (it
> varies with time) without any real problems. My Real World grade is
> currently 3 dan; I got demoted on request from 4 dan a bit more than a
> year ago. This probably means I'd be about 5-6 dan in US, definitely 6 dan
> in Japan, and of Korea and China I have no idea.
So what? What do all of those facts serve to support?
Ahh but check my OP about the 20 rated games index. Saying that I am 3d had
a definite point at that time.
> Now, Cornel is stronger then me, and I would definitely feel uncomfortable
> playing him on even. I would be quite hard put to beat him on two stones,
> and would probably feel uneasy at three stones. Can't really say how many
> stones I'd actually need before I try playing a few games with him.
ok
>
> Where does this put your claim of being 3 dan, being strong, belittling
> Cornel, and your claim of equality of all gradings? Right, squarely in the
> garbage bin.
Where did I belittle cornel? Is it true or not true that C5 could be played
at C4? I'd take an answer from Cornel on it but when I play, I think I
would still move C4 instead.
> I strongly suggest you to get a life.
I strongly suggest that you figure out what the hell you're trying to say
and say it instead of pissing around, because I can't find any point in
your message except perhaps *you* don't like me, which is meaningless.
-frl
Orne Batmagoo
Oh, that's because you *refuse to say* what the name of your 3d account is.
>
> -frl
What is it?
--
Orne Batmagoo
Planar
<uIBbc.13947$RfJ....@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> I am 3d, there is a problem with the ratings system (it's slow). It's
> not a brag, it's not an attack. They are observations of fact.
Your taiji account wins about half its games, and they are all
handicapped correctly for a 1k. I can't see a problem with the rating
system here. Maybe your 3d account also wins half its games. In that
case, there is a problem but it's not in the rating system, it's in
your head.
> I wouldn't mind going back to the original discussion about "the last 20
> rated games quick index" (index only considers last 20 rated games)
That puts taiji at 11 wins and 9 losses, no reason to believe that you're
3 stones stronger than your rating.
> and/or a "monthly index" (games played within 30 days).
19 wins and 18 losses. Again, the rating system seems to be working
quite well.
--
Planar
remove the dash from my address if you want to send me mail
Alexandros
> That puts taiji at 11 wins and 9 losses, no reason to believe that you're
> 3 stones stronger than your rating.
So, forgive my ignorance, but I thought the difference between kyus was
one stone, but between dans was 1/3 of a stone. Am I wrong?
Alexandros
(I can't believe I just wrote on this thread... must be out of my mind)
--
I know I can stop the pain if I will it all away.
--Evanescence
Goran
"Alexandros" <al...@dramatech.org> wrote in message
news:c4si6i$icg$1...@news-int2.gatech.edu...
> (I can't believe I just wrote on this thread... must be out of my mind)
I can't belive I started this thread :)
Goran
Charles Matthews
"Alexandros" wrote
> So, forgive my ignorance, but I thought the difference between kyus was
> one stone, but between dans was 1/3 of a stone. Am I wrong?
That's notionally true of _pro_ dans.
It is apparently true in some sense that ama dan grades are closer (15-20%?)
than kyu grades. But the players are also much more consistent, so it's
harder to measure this than one might think.
Charles
Douglas Ridgway
> Is it true or not true that C5 could be played
> at C4?
It's nice to see this discussion turn to go, so that weak players like
me might learn something.
Here's the position:
---------------------------------------
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . O c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . d a . . . . . . g . . . O . . . . . |
| . . b X . f . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
| . . . . . . . . . X . . X X O O . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
---------------------------------------
Black (X) to play. Cornel chose a, Fu suggests that b is also
possible. I tried doing a search on Gobase on the 11x11 corner, and
found (in addition to the popular a and tenuki) the moves c-g. I
couldn't find any games with b, but maybe I'm not looking in the right
places. (I also found another game by Cornel on 2001-10-14, where he
played e, but in that game the C11 stone didn't have an extension
above it.)
Perhaps some stong players could comment? What are the possibilities,
and what do they mean?
Thanks!
doug.
rid...@dridgway.com
Barry Phease
The "correct" move in this position is 'f'. This extension makes
territory along the bottom and puts pressure on the single white stone at
C6.
However Black really wants to force white with 'a' first. After 'a' white
will probably respond at 'c' and then black will play at 'f'. This helps
the corner, but doesn't make it into territory. The main advantage of the
'a' - 'c' exchange is to make it harder for white on the outside. White
will extend up the side, but black already has a stone there, so white's
extension is cramped. The prerequisite for black is that the stone (at
C11) doesn't come under attack. In this case it is backed up by another
stone (at C14) so 'a' is an excellent move.
If that stone (C11) is weak then the pincer at 'e' would be good,
expecting white to go into the corner.
In this position 'd' (or possibly 'b') to defend the corner is OK but it
lets white have free reign on the outside. Black will get divided into a
number of small positions, which is probably to white's advantage.
--
Barry Phease
Fu, Ren-Li
> Your taiji account wins about half its games, and they are all
> handicapped correctly for a 1k. I can't see a problem with the rating
> system here.
Planar, how many wins/losses do I have right now over my last, say, 10 or 20
games?
If that situation continued I would be 1d on KGS, that is a fact.
However now that I am 1k, people thought my 2k account should be 1k but lo
and behold now it should be 1d.
Furthermore I have 10 of 14 win/loss, w2hich is 71%. This places me roughly
1,5-2d. If I didn't have my most recent strong of losses (musta been drunk
or something) it would be up aorund 81%. The point is not that I need to
lose my losses to get a high winning percentage, it's that even if I do
have a strong of losses I still perform more than 1 stone better than 1k.
Furthermore my tsukino account just won against 3k, 2k, 1k and 1d IGS with a
*. Make of that what you will.
> That puts taiji at 11 wins and 9 losses, no reason to believe that you're
> 3 stones stronger than your rating.
Yeah but in 3 games I could be 1d, in 2 more 2d, and in 2 or 3 more 3d.
Something to look forward too.
Logically, if I was not 2 or 3d, it would be exceedingly difficult for me to
hold on to such a rating for any real length of time.
-frl
Alex Papadimitriu
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
> Planar wrote:
>
> > Your taiji account wins about half its games, and they are all
> > handicapped correctly for a 1k. I can't see a problem with the rating
> > system here.
.................
> Furthermore my tsukino account just won against 3k, 2k, 1k and 1d IGS with a
> *. Make of that what you will.
It's amazing how speedly you posted your cheap victory over
Legrande, but nothing about your humiliting defeat against
Cornel. :-) Just as quickly, you bragged about beating a 2k
and a 3k at IGS the next evening. Does anyone care?
Now you brag again about these games, but no mention about your
embarrassing game with Cornel. :-) By the way, the 2k you
played has a 0 win and 10 lost stats record as of this writing,
and the 1k has a 1 win and 11 lost stats record.
Interesting. :)
Fu, Ren-Li
> It's amazing how speedly you posted your cheap victory over
> Legrande, but nothing about your humiliting defeat against
> Cornel. :-) Just as quickly, you bragged about beating a 2k
> and a 3k at IGS the next evening. Does anyone care?
** Tweedie wrote:
** From the two games, Legrande and Cornel, it looks like Fu is
** about 4k - 3k on IGS. Two Korean pros confirmed this opinion.
It looks like Tweedie and two korean pros care.
They're also dead wrong, judging from the fact that the fact that the game
against cornel is the only one I lost. Statistical evidence would seem to
discount my loss against cornel to some other factor, such as cornel being
stronger at the time, or me being weaker at the time. That is, given the
*other* 4 games I played on IGS.
> Now you brag again about these games, but no mention about your
> embarrassing game with Cornel. :-) By the way, the 2k you
> played has a 0 win and 10 lost stats record as of this writing,
> and the 1k has a 1 win and 11 lost stats record.
> Interesting. :)
What about the 1d?
-frl
Patrick G. Bridges
>
> Logically, if I was not 2 or 3d, it would be exceedingly difficult for me to
> hold on to such a rating for any real length of time.
If you played games with it, yes, it probably would be hard to hold on
to that rank. You've only played two rated games with it in the last
month, however - one a win on time in a game that you were losing
*very* badly on the board, and the other a loss by resign.
--
-Patrick Bridges bri...@cs.arizona.edu GPG Key ID = CB074C71
Alex Papadimitriu
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
> They're also dead wrong, judging from the fact that the fact that the game
> against cornel is the only one I lost. Statistical evidence would seem to
> discount my loss against cornel to some other factor, such as cornel being
> stronger at the time, or me being weaker at the time. That is, given the
> *other* 4 games I played on IGS.
I see. So your game with Cornel doesn't really count. HAHAHAHA
> > Now you brag again about these games, but no mention about your
> > embarrassing game with Cornel. :-) By the way, the 2k you
> > played has a 0 win and 10 lost stats record as of this writing,
> > and the 1k has a 1 win and 11 lost stats record.
> > Interesting. :)
>
> What about the 1d?
You also said "I can beat IGS 3k, 2k, 1k, and 1d". These 4 games and
your embarrassing and himiliating game with Cornel total 5 games. Your stats
record has a total of 4 games and 2 stored games.
Jeff Nowakowski
>
> Furthermore I have 10 of 14 win/loss, w2hich is 71%. This places me roughly
> 1,5-2d. If I didn't have my most recent strong of losses (musta been drunk
> or something) it would be up aorund 81%.
Why don't you stop fooling yourself? You make excuses for your
losses. You try to inflate your rank based on a few wins.
Here's a real test: Play two games a day for the next month on the
usagi account, against 2d or 3d with no handicap. If you're 3d at
the end of that hats off to you.
My guess is that you are afraid to do so, for it would provide hard
evidence instead of evidence that you could interpret to your liking.
-Jeff
Trunk
to play with your "dan" account at least once/twice a month
or you'd lose one ranking out of your "dan" account per period
of time defined :)
Trunk
"Jeff Nowakowski" <jef...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message
news:c4tphp$2kjopi$1...@ID-136021.news.uni-berlin.de...
Tweedie
(Fu wrote in respose to: Just as quickly, you bragged about beating a 2k
and a 3k at IGS the next evening. Does anyone care?)
>** Tweedie wrote:
>** From the two games, Legrande and Cornel, it looks like Fu is
>** about 4k - 3k on IGS. Two Korean pros confirmed this opinion.
>
>It looks like Tweedie and two korean pros care.
The two Korean pros don't care. They don't even know
anything about rec.games.go or Oliver Richman, alias
Fu Ren-li. They only gave their opinion because I
asked them what they thought about the two games. I
don't care either. I only asked because I thought the
readers would be interested in a professional opinion.
They also said they were only looking at how you
played in these two games, and not whether you won or
lost, or how many games you played.
Mitchell Timin
opinion of himself. In my experience it is an excellent rating system.
There is a graph that anyone can look at showing FRL's recent progress
as "taiji". He has been slowly getting stronger, but currently he is
slightly closer to 1k than 1d. The rating system is not just based on
win vs. losses. It depends strongly on the relative strengths, and the
handicap. Fu cannot reach 1d just by having 3 wins in a row; the wins
need to be against equal or stronger players, adjusting for handicap.
Fu, if you want my advice, which I'm sure you don't, you will accept
that you are currently 1k, which is a rank to be proud of, and continue
to practice and study Go.
You will probably reach shodan in less than six months.
m (16k KGS)
--
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche
http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Planar
<kqncc.22812$3%81....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Planar, how many wins/losses do I have right now over my last, say, 10 or 20
> games?
I did it for 20. Why don't you do it for 10, although it is really
to small of a sample for any significant statistics.
> Furthermore I have 10 of 14 win/loss, w2hich is 71%.
Why 14, and not 10 or 20? This is a serious question. Please try
to understand why I am asking it.
> This places me roughly
> 1,5-2d. If I didn't have my most recent strong of losses (musta been drunk
> or something) it would be up aorund 81%.
That's the whole point. The rating system doesn't know when you're
drunk, and you can hardly claim that as a bug of the rating system.
> Furthermore my tsukino account just won against 3k, 2k, 1k and 1d IGS with a
> *. Make of that what you will.
Completely irrelevant to your claims with respect to the KGS rating
system. Your true rank (if there is such a thing) is also completely
irrelevant to these claims.
> Logically, if I was not 2 or 3d, it would be exceedingly difficult for me to
> hold on to such a rating for any real length of time.
You don't understand the purpose of the rating system. The rating system
does not compute the _strength_ of the _players_. The rating system
computes a _rank_ which is a good summary of the performance of each
_account_ in the recent past. It does not (and should not) know about
your other accounts, your games on IGS, or your level of intoxication
while playing.
Your claim, that the rating system has problems, is not substantiated
by the results of the taiji account.