Re-opening double. The perfect hand ?
Bridge Pattaya
MP
76
4
A1073
AKQ962
You open 1C in South after two passes
LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
pass pass 1C 1S
pass pass ?
I think it is a clear case of re-opening double because the hand is
offensive
Do you agree?
Adam Beneschan
No, because I don't believe in doubling without support for unbid
suits---in this hand, your heart support is terrible. If partner does
bid hearts (indicating a really poor hand since he didn't make a
negative double the first time), you'll have to go back to 3C and play
it there opposite partner's garbage.
I'd reopen but not with a double. I think 2C is the least of evils.
-- Adam
Lorne
news:878699e5-ea26-4f70...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
No, your partner will bid hearts and that does not help you at all.
2C or even 3C if you want to make it difficult for the oppo to come back in
make much more sense. If you have a decent penalty against 1S either they
will run to 2H or you will find you are better off in 5 or 6C.
Alan Malloy
This is a clear case of anything but double. Even pass is probably
better than double. If you want to bid because the hand is offensive,
the last thing you should do is double: this suggests enough defense to
tolerate partner passing it.
Two of either minor seems fine to me.
--
Cheers,
Alan (San Jose, California, USA)
Sid
"Bridge Pattaya" <bridge...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:878699e5-ea26-4f70...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
No. Partner will 2H or even 3H (6-7 points and 5x or 6x hearts). And
now...?
Also, the 1S overcaller will have a chance to bid hearts freely over a
double and may find a superfit in partner's hand in hearts. You may find
that after a reopening double the bidding comes round to you at the 3H
level. Now?
Rebid of 2C = 10
3C = 6
2D = 4
Sid
ted
Guess you are ready to bid 5C over partner's 4H? I would settle for 2C
altho I could live with 2D. 2D would be easy if I had as much as the
TC as then 7 tricks in NT would be at least 50%
jogs
No. Double suggests hearts. Three hearts would be
a disappoint. One heart is a unforgivable lie.
2C is the only reasonable bid.
Tivo John
In agreement other responses, I strongly disagree with double due to
the H holding.
I vote for 2D, which is nonforcing and usually based on more hcp than
this. The hand has a lot of playing strength for 13 hcp, and partner
could have a big D fit.
-- john
castigamatti
3C. Amazing, isn't it?
B.R.
pattayabridge
PLEASE NOTE that this is NOT a post from pattayabridge.
It is of course Vincit, real name jean-Francois Fohrer, who uses
numerous bogus names and e-mails including 'cr...@gmail.com',
presumably because he is too now cowardly to put his name to his
rubbish after the responses he got from his posts amout 3NT openings
and cheating. The hand comes from my latest news-sheet -
http://www.pattayabridge.com/news_sheet/2009/News362.html .
I state that double is very clear - it would have netted 800 on a part-
score deal. If you disagree then that's fine, and make a polite
comment to express your opinions. That is how this forum should be
run. Vincit of course is too cowardly to commit himself and so makes
this 'anonymous' post, which has the appearance of being from me, just
to see if the majority disagree with me. Incidentally, I disagre with
members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
not, it is simply doubling in case partner has a penalty pass which is
quite likely when the 1s overcall did not get raised.
pattayabridge
>
> - Show quoted text -
"this suggests enough defense to tolerate partner passing it" - indeed
it does, and this hand should be delighted to find partner with a
penalty pass hand.
castigamatti
> On Oct 21, 1:42 am, Bridge Pattaya <bridgepatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Lova all
> > MP
>
> > 76
> > 4
> > A1073
> > AKQ962
>
> > You open 1C in South after two passes
> > LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
>
> > pass pass 1C 1S
> > pass pass ?
>
> > I think it is a clear case of re-opening double because the hand is
> > offensive
> > Do you agree?
>
> PLEASE NOTE that this is NOT a post from pattayabridge.
> It is of course Vincit, real name jean-Francois Fohrer, who uses
> presumably because he is too now cowardly to put his name to his
> rubbish after the responses he got from his posts amout 3NT openings
> and cheating. The hand comes from my latest news-sheet -http://www.pattayabridge.com/news_sheet/2009/News362.html.
> I state that double is very clear - it would have netted 800 on a part-
> score deal. If you disagree then that's fine, and make a polite
> comment to express your opinions. That is how this forum should be
> run. Vincit of course is too cowardly to commit himself and so makes
> this 'anonymous' post, which has the appearance of being from me, just
> to see if the majority disagree with me. Incidentally, I disagre with
> members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
> not, it is simply doubling in case partner has a penalty pass which is
> quite likely when the 1s overcall did not get raised.
LOL
Sorry, but it so funny. I mean, passing with 9 points. Perhaps I
should have bid 2C only, following Fred's advice.
B.R.
vincit
> On Oct 21, 1:42 am, Bridge Pattaya <bridgepatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Lova all
> > MP
>
> > 76
> > 4
> > A1073
> > AKQ962
>
> > You open 1C in South after two passes
> > LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
>
> > pass pass 1C 1S
> > pass pass ?
>
> > I think it is a clear case of re-opening double because the hand is
> > offensive
> > Do you agree?
>
> PLEASE NOTE that this is NOT a post from pattayabridge.
> It is of course Vincit, real name jean-Francois Fohrer, who uses
> presumably because he is too now cowardly to put his name to his
> rubbish after the responses he got from his posts amout 3NT openings
> and cheating. The hand comes from my latest news-sheet -http://www.pattayabridge.com/news_sheet/2009/News362.html.
> I state that double is very clear - it would have netted 800 on a part-
> score deal. If you disagree then that's fine, and make a polite
> comment to express your opinions. That is how this forum should be
> run. Vincit of course is too cowardly to commit himself and so makes
> this 'anonymous' post, which has the appearance of being from me, just
> to see if the majority disagree with me. Incidentally, I disagre with
> members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
> not, it is simply doubling in case partner has a penalty pass which is
> quite likely when the 1s overcall did not get raised.
Hello Klaus
Apparently this post is from Klaus, maybe he is entitled to ?
Klaus is a great fan of your news-sheets he is also a good chess
player
Rings a bell?
Double is worth ZERO "patty" is obsessed with catching people at the
one level !
1S did not get raise ! .... naughty boys the opponents who do give a
fit ! May be a trap be careful Patty
I would bid 2C/3C
You cannot even call the TD at his venue (he calls a club) because he
cannot recognize a psych from a technical bid
Klaus plays at the Dutch Club he reads your news-sheets, nice guy got
a couple of slow beers with him ...
I wonder if Double with this hand may be considered as a criminal
activity in Thailand !
Finally we are not expecting a Terry Quested from a venue among
prostitutes and Go-Go bars , cooking hands and rectifying scores
behind people's back to tell us what should and what should not be
done on Usenet .... Please do not be obsessed with vincit ...Focus on
your bridge and learn the Code this is a Bridge Forum !
vincit
>
>
>
>
>
> > Lova all
> > MP
>
> > 76
> > 4
> > A1073
> > AKQ962
>
> > You open 1C in South after two passes
> > LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
>
> > pass pass 1C 1S
> > pass pass ?
>
> > I think it is a clear case of re-opening double because the hand is
> > offensive
> > Do you agree?
>
> PLEASE NOTE that this is NOT a post from pattayabridge.
> It is of course Vincit, real name jean-Francois Fohrer, who uses
> presumably because he is too now cowardly to put his name to his
> rubbish after the responses he got from his posts amout 3NT openings
> and cheating. The hand comes from my latest news-sheet -http://www.pattayabridge.com/news_sheet/2009/News362.html.
> I state that double is very clear - it would have netted 800 on a part-
> score deal. If you disagree then that's fine, and make a polite
> comment to express your opinions. That is how this forum should be
> run. Vincit of course is too cowardly to commit himself and so makes
> this 'anonymous' post, which has the appearance of being from me, just
> to see if the majority disagree with me. Incidentally, I disagre with
> members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
> not, it is simply doubling in case partner has a penalty pass which is
> quite likely when the 1s overcall did not get raised.
Focus on your bridge
Terry Quested & Val Bridges 109.4 off 27 boards
40.51 %
Terry Quested & Val Bridges 94.7 off 21 boards
37.59 %
You keep finishing LAST with your favorite partner
What happened , the Parrot convention? 3NT gambling ?
I tell you do not give opinion ASK questions you are in the
questioning phase, still WE will not stop you from postings
Bridge Pattaya
>
>
>
>
>
> > Lova all
> > MP
>
> > 76
> > 4
> > A1073
> > AKQ962
>
> > You open 1C in South after two passes
> > LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
>
> > pass pass 1C 1S
> > pass pass ?
>
> > I think it is a clear case of re-opening double because the hand is
> > offensive
> > Do you agree?
>
> PLEASE NOTE that this is NOT a post from pattayabridge.
> It is of course Vincit, real name jean-Francois Fohrer, who uses
> presumably because he is too now cowardly to put his name to his
> rubbish after the responses he got from his posts amout 3NT openings
> and cheating. The hand comes from my latest news-sheet -http://www.pattayabridge.com/news_sheet/2009/News362.html.
> I state that double is very clear - it would have netted 800 on a part-
> score deal. If you disagree then that's fine, and make a polite
> comment to express your opinions. That is how this forum should be
> run. Vincit of course is too cowardly to commit himself and so makes
> this 'anonymous' post, which has the appearance of being from me, just
> to see if the majority disagree with me. Incidentally, I disagre with
> members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
> not, it is simply doubling in case partner has a penalty pass which is
> quite likely when the 1s overcall did not get raised.
Terry QUESTED it is time to STOP
We are not affiliated with you what so ever (thanks god !)
Many players you have expelled because they disagreed with you have
come to see us
With everybody you have expelled you demonstrated your dishonesty
For some reasons some of your members gave us your news-sheets ...
Best
Klaus
We have known vincit for a long time and
Alan Malloy
I'm not saying the hand doesn't have enough defense to tolerate partner
passing the double. The reason I don't double is because I'm terrified
partner will bid hearts, not because I'm terrified he will pass. My
point was, saying the hand is offensive is an argument against doubling,
not for doubling.
I suppose the hand is offensive, in the sense that partner will be
offended if I put it down as dummy in a heart contract.
vincit
Yes you are absolutely correct but I suppose the original writer
(Terry Quested) meant defensive value if not it is a non sense
Of course he is accustomed to it but still here mentioning offensive
values for the reason to double is a little too much !
And partner is very likely to bid Heart, looking for the penalty in
this situation is certainly not a winning proposition in the long run
If you double and partner bids hearts (with four 4 cards) he will be
right to be offended by your style !
Cheers
Cheers
Derek Broughton
> On Oct 21, 3:54 am, Alan Malloy <alan.NO.S...@malloys.org> wrote:
>> Bridge Pattaya wrote:
>> > Lova all
>> > MP
>>
>> > 76
>> > 4
>> > A1073
>> > AKQ962
>>
>> > You open 1C in South after two passes
>> > LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
>>
>> > pass pass 1C 1S
>> > pass pass ?
>>
>> > I think it is a clear case of re-opening double because the hand is
>> > offensive
>> > Do you agree?
>>
>> This is a clear case of anything but double. Even pass is probably
>> better than double. If you want to bid because the hand is offensive,
>> the last thing you should do is double: this suggests enough defense to
>> tolerate partner passing it.
>>
>> Two of either minor seems fine to me.
>
> "this suggests enough defense to tolerate partner passing it" - indeed
> it does, and this hand should be delighted to find partner with a
> penalty pass hand.
Far _more_ likely, it will find partner with enough spades to think that
combined with your apparent strength, he has a penalty pass. You _don't_
have any defense. How many club tricks do you think you're getting (1 is my
bet). So you'll get two aces and maybe a spade if partner passes.
--
derek
Derek Broughton
> PLEASE NOTE that this is NOT a post from pattayabridge.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We could all figure that out. You should be proud that
he's publishing your bridge wisdom to a larger audience.
> Incidentally, I disagre with
> members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
> not,
It doesn't matter whether your agreements say that it implies hearts or not
- you can't do it because you can't tolerate partner's most likely bid.
--
derek
vincit
Do not be rude on "Patty", he has a lot on his plate at the moment
Still you found the right tone ...
Cheers
vincit
Quote
The re-opening double Board 1
from Friday 16th
One player said to me on Friday that he did not like/understand the
‘automatic’ re-opening double. My answer is that if you do not
understand it (despite its repeated appearances in the news-sheets),
then don’t play negative doubles!
What did you bid with this South hand F in this week’s quiz? There
are exceptions when you should not re-open with a double, but this is
not one of them. With two trumps, a singleton, the ♦A, and great ♣’s
which partner will presumably lead, this is a great offensive hand and
double is clear.
End of quote
I think is language is amazing taking into account he is a "real"
novice (I guarantee this is true)
He thinks you should double with an offensive hand ! The poor opener
who correctly bid 2C/2D will be crucified (and is crucified,
fortunately he did not quote any names). Obviously he does not know
the difference
Still no need to beat a dead horse but the way it is related in his
bulletin is very offensive, this is what he did to me accusing me of
psyching and cheating when I helped him out to play with a pick-up
partner
Terry Quested is used to a 30-40-50% score with his favourite partner
so he must make some mistakes he never appears in his own news-sheets,
and will never focus on his own mistakes ....
Adam Beneschan
> > 76
> > 4
> > A1073
> > AKQ962
>
> > You open 1C in South after two passes
> > LHO bids 1S and it is back to you
>
> > pass pass 1C 1S
> > pass pass ?
> Incidentally, I disagre with
> members who say that double suggests hearts - is most certainly does
> not, it is simply doubling in case partner has a penalty pass which is
> quite likely when the 1s overcall did not get raised
OK, so suppose partner has a penalty pass. So what? There is no rule
in bridge that says that once partner makes a penalty pass, the
auction is over and you get to defend doubled.
Really, I think there are people who think there is a rule like that.
I know I've told this story several times, but we did have an auction
like this:
LHO Partner RHO Me
1D 1S pass pass
dbl pass pass
at which point the opponents started picking up their bidding cards,
writing the final contract on their score cards---I had to remind them
that the auction was not over. (I had a good hand for an SOS
redouble, and we got to a better spot.)
On this particular hand, your heart shortness makes it likely that the
opponents have a resting spot there. Sure, partner could have 5=5=2=1
or something like that. I'm just saying that the odds that you will
get rich defending on this hand aren't all that good---partner not
only has to have a penalty double of spades, he has to have a penalty
double of hearts also. If he doesn't, then you and partner are going
to have to keep bidding with your offensively-oriented hand.
This theme came up in a Master Solvers' Club some years ago; Rubens (I
think, or was it Kokish?) referred to it as "The Great Conversion
Problem". I.e. once you convert a takeout double for penalties, and
there's more bidding, how do you catch up?
The bottom line: doubling for the purpose of catering to a penalty
pass is overrated. The main purpose of a reopening double here is to
show that you want to keep competing and can support the unbid suits.
-- Adam
Sid
Terry QUESTED it is time to STOP
We are not affiliated with you what so ever (thanks god !)
Many players you have expelled because they disagreed with you have
come to see us
With everybody you have expelled you demonstrated your dishonesty
For some reasons some of your members gave us your news-sheets ...
Best
Klaus
We have known vincit for a long time and
--------
Please go to court and take your nonsense away from this public forum.
Now STOP, klaus and vincit - go get a life.
Sid
vincit
> "Bridge Pattaya" <bridgepatt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Focus on Parrot and if you dont like it just killfile everyone (ask
Derek the procedure). It is none of your business. This is Usenet and
anyone is entitled his opinion whether you like or not. Get a life
yourself ...
Co
"ted" <morr...@bellsouth.net> schreef in bericht
news:b1bd79fb-eea4-4e8c...@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
I dont think partner would bid 4H after pass in the previous round
Derek Broughton
> OK, so suppose partner has a penalty pass. So what? There is no rule
> in bridge that says that once partner makes a penalty pass, the
> auction is over and you get to defend doubled.
>
> Really, I think there are people who think there is a rule like that.
> I know I've told this story several times, but we did have an auction
> like this:
>
> LHO Partner RHO Me
> 1D 1S pass pass
> dbl pass pass
>
> at which point the opponents started picking up their bidding cards,
> writing the final contract on their score cards---I had to remind them
> that the auction was not over. (I had a good hand for an SOS
> redouble, and we got to a better spot.)
I had a similar hand this summer, where I had to _twice_ ask the opponents
to leave their cards on the table when it was two passes to me. You'd think
after the first time they'd get a clue. In the end, we bought the contract
for a good result.
--
derek