Bidding an 8 card suit after partner opens

[Tom]

Duplicate at the community centre. No one vulnerable and P. deals and
opens 1C (short).

Pass to you, and you hold:

x
x
QJx
AJ109xxxx

How do you bid this?

[HoneyMonster]

Assuming that 1C just means a weak notrump type hand, and absent any
special agreements, I just punt 5C. This cannot be too far off.

[Lorne]

"Tom" wrote in message
news:4f78d1fd$0$2273$c3e8da3$3a1a...@news.astraweb.com...

.....................

5C.

You obviously want to play in clubs, and probably do not want the oppo to
bid a major as they must have at least an 8 card fit in both and probably
more. If 6C makes partner can often raise but the main gain will be from
shutting out 4H or 4S which will often make for the oppo.

[smn]

Hello , I asume 1c could be short ,if you play inverted minors ,bid 3c
or if 3c is a limit raise , bid 4c .You don't want to miss a slam .If
they come in in a major your side can raise to 5c then -you are not
vulnerable, If you werent playing short club jumping to 5c might work
but I would then jump to 4c anyway,even playing inverted minors
assuming it means preemptive with long clubs, smn

[Dave Flower]

I need to know more about your methods. In particular, how strong is your opening 1NT ? Is that what the field are playing ?

Note that 7NT is laydown opposite:

A x x
A x x
A K x
Q x x x

Dave Flower

[Tom]

In article <jlake2$7sg$1...@news.albasani.net>, som...@someplace.invalid
says...

I bid 5C, which was the normal result. Partner converted to 5N, just
making, for a top (we were missing two A's and partner had the Kx of
clubs).

But partner was a bit choked. He had a balanced 18 HCP and thought we
should have been playing it in 3N, with more attention to figuring out
whether a slam was there.

But neither of us could think of a reasonable path to do this (and didn't
even think about Lorne's point, about what would happen if the defense
had time to find their major suit fits).

Appreciate your help on this.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <4f79f4cf$0$24267$c3e8da3$a8a6...@news.astraweb.com>,

I don't think anyone has a system for hands like this. It's not worth
it, they don't come up enough. Your sequence is probably about as good
as it gets. No one with your hand is likely to let partner play 3NT.

Holding that hand opposite a partner playing short club, it seems most
likely that partner has the short club hand. Your 5C bid is the perfect
description of your hand.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Eric Leong]

On Apr 2, 11:49 am, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:
> In article <jlake2$7s...@news.albasani.net>, some...@someplace.invalid

Perhaps, if you would bid the same way with the ace of clubs replaced
with a small club your partner would find bidding 5NT to play a little
less appealing. Also, many players might play 5NT as the grand slam
force asking to bid a grand with two out of the top three honors.. I
would be tempted to bid 7C since with the ace and extra length partner
is likely to pick up the whole suit even missing either the king or
queen of clubs.

Eric Leong

[derek]

On Apr 1, 8:05 pm, smn <smnewber...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 3:08 pm, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:
>
> > Duplicate at the community centre.  No one vulnerable and P. deals and
> > opens 1C (short).
>
> > Pass to you, and you hold:
>
> > x
> > x
> > QJx
> > AJ109xxxx
>
> > How do you bid this?
>
> Hello , I asume 1c could be short ,if you play inverted minors ,bid 3c
> or if 3c is a limit raise , bid 4c .You don't want to miss a slam .If
> they come in in a major your side can raise to 5c then -you are not
> vulnerable,

That's what I was thinking. I play inverted minors (usually) and this
is tailor made. Partner, with 18 HCP, is going to know if 3N makes,
and not expect me to have more than the one ace. If he can make a slam
if I have just the A!C, he should be able to get there too.

[Fred.]

If you put a system in place to handle the next
time partner opens and you have a strong 8-card
suit you will likely be wasting a bid.

5C for fear of the majors was a reasonable
action.

Fred.

[HoneyMonster]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:30:08 -0700, Fred. wrote:

> 5C for fear of the majors was a reasonable action.

And 5NT by opener was just silly.

[Will in New Haven]

5C seems reasonable. Even playing "could be short," we have a Club fit
and they probably have high-level Major-suit contract that is either a
make or a good save.

On the other hand, I might bid 2C, if that is the stronger of the
inverted raises, or 3C if that is a limit raise. This hand has the
playing strength for either of those bids. Defensively, making one of
those bids is a bit of a bluff.

--
Will in New Haven

[Adam Beneschan]

Well, if you're going to bluff, maybe you should try to guess which major partner doesn't have, and bid 1 of that suit. Of course, they may kick you out of the community centre for that. :) :)

-- Adam

[Ian Payn]

On Apr 2, 7:49 pm, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:
> In article <jlake2$7s...@news.albasani.net>, some...@someplace.invalid

> Appreciate your help on this.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

++++With all due respect for your partner, he doesn't know what he's
talking about. 5NT was the action of a madman, and as Eric says you
could justifiably take it as a GSF. That you chose to pass was lucky
for him. He was equally lucky to find you with the hand he did (as
Eric also observes. Agreeing twice with Eric in one posting - must
check my medication). Five Clubs is an automatic action on this hand,
and to consider anything else is tying yourself up in knots.

I'd be interested to hear your partner's suggested auction, whereby
you would show a modestly good 8 card suit with a Diamond stopper on
the side but nothing else in time for him to be able to judge that 3NT
was a better spot than 5C. It's not going to happen. That he would
have made 3NT on this particualr hand is neither here nor there. As
indeed it is most of the time.

Matchpointed pairs is about being right more often than you're wrong.
In that context, 5C sticks out like the nose on Jimmy Durante's face.

[Eric Leong]

> http://www.adpost.com/nz/books/305/en

> Matchpointed pairs is about being right more often than you're wrong.
> In that context, 5C sticks out like the nose on Jimmy Durante's face.

I am not so sure I agree with 5C being obvious. For example, game in
notrump is an option for a club suit that you expect good chances to
run off the top. Further, having eight card support would exceed
partner's expectations. Finally, I would expect the room to bid 5C
which would seem a pretty average boring spot on the bidding. I would
keep other options open to try to beat the field.

Eric Leong

[Ian Payn]

> Eric Leong- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

++++At the risk of delving into Matchpoint Theory (at which I would
claim no great expertise), I think we're starting from different
places here. You're looking for ways to beat the field, I'm looking at
ways of not losing to them. The former, I think, is a high risk/high
return strategy, the latter a medium risk/medium return one. We could
argue about which works better for decades, tortoise/hare whatever.
But on this particular hand, I think the practicalities of looking for
a Holy Grail leave you wide open to the possibility of something
happening that upsets your position, and not in a good way. I think
that trying to win every hand can often lead to you losing out when
there's no need to. Look after not losing and opportunity will come
your way. if it does often enough, and you take it often enough,
you'll win.

A philosophical difference, of course, and even then merely a
ruminative one. I speak as one once described as The Best Matchpoint
Player in the United Kingdom (once you've excluded all the others).

[Eric Leong]

Give partner S QJxx H Axx D xxx C Kxx or S Axxx H Axxx D xx C
Kxx and opposite a less than an opening 1C bid 3NT is cold. Improve
the last hand to S Axxx H Axxx D Kx C Kxx and 6C is cold. Further,
if you are playing weak notrumps then one would think your chances of
game or slam are even greater when partner opens 1C. Now consider
RHO's pass. Our side has at least a 10 card club fit so clearly RHO
has some distributional shape. Surely with more hcp RHO would find
some bid to compete. Consequently, if RHO is weak in hcp one would
think that suggests that partner is much stronger than a minimum. So I
don't think trying to keep other alternatives open is trying to find
the "Holy Grail".

Eric Leong

[Michael Tsang]

This kind of hand is *too rare*. I would just bid 5C and hope it makes. If
opener has some values (like KQxx in clubs), he should bid 6C.