Phil Hellmuth, weak-tight crybaby nit
A Man Beaten by Jacks
Discuss.
alan
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>
> Discuss.
He is the worse player on HSP EVERY season.
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Will in New Haven
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
I haven't seen a single episode but I'm sure that you are correct.
--
Will in New Haven
number6
He uses much the same tactics and style as his successful tournament
play ... but with so much face time that he's given ... these other
guys can read him to a t ...
Kingo Gondo
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:f4c70d34-5fd2-4fd0...@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 15, 3:02 pm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob...@fool.foo> wrote:
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
I haven't seen a single episode but I'm sure that you are correct.
REPLY:
The first episode was last night. He busted out ($200,000) in the first 30
minutes or so (of TV time).
Kingo Gondo
johnny_t
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>
> Discuss.
There is no real problem with weak-tight in cash play, you need to be
VERY worried when against strong players when it is late in the hand,
and the pots are getting very big.
They ARE putting you on a hand, and you better be able to correctly
distinguish value from bluff.
Either that, learn pot control, LIVE pot control, Play the smaller game,
where you win most times and lose less money. Play position
aggressively (this is the one advantage of your image). The best you're
going to able to do is win medium size pots, when you finally can't get
bluffed off the hand. That's ok.
Or get all the money in good. And stop worrying about out-playing your
opponents. But then you're in the variance machine.
Raider Fan
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>
> Discuss.
Bring back AJ! Gabe still cracks me up, but we need somebody to laugh at
his jokes!
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
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Phillip Briganti
show loosing twice with a flush to a higher flush.At least he didn't whine,
he just got up and left when he lost his 200k.
"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nob...@fool.foo> wrote in message
news:d2ajn5hond1lsv8pb...@4ax.com...
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>
> Discuss.
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johnny_t
> On 2/15/10 12:02 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>>
>> Discuss.
Ok, I watched the show.
Big aces are very hard to play against aggressive fields, in or out of
position. It is clear he needs to either sac up early with these kinds
of positions, or just freaking fold these hands preflop and let the game
develop for awhile. He doesn't need to be playing these hands early in
the game and just get screwed with before the attitudes and styles have
been discovered.
I muck most ALL of these A Big hands in rush poker for the same reasons.
If I do play them, unless I hit a monster they are going into the
trash. Or I have position, and can rub one out.
chandler
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>
> Discuss.
They started the new season? Exlent. He was pretty freakin' awful in the
PAD cash game.
Chandler
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K9way
> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>
> Discuss.
he has been a 'rank cash sucker" all his life . he has been broke several
times .
- Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll
just
kill you.
_______________________________________________________________________�
Phillip Briganti
"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nob...@fool.foo> wrote in message
news:d2ajn5hond1lsv8pb...@4ax.com...
>
> Discuss.
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A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
>On 2/15/10 12:02 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>> Discuss.
>There is no real problem with weak-tight in cash play, you need to be
>VERY worried when against strong players when it is late in the hand,
>and the pots are getting very big.
Weak-tight is completely wrong in a format like HSP where there are
antes preflop and the field is maniacally aggressive. Unless you can
very cannily rope-a-dope, as Barry Greenstein has mastered, you will
be eaten alive.
I know I'd be eaten alive by that field. Phil Hellmuth doesn't seem
to realize he has no chance.
>They ARE putting you on a hand, and you better be able to correctly
>distinguish value from bluff.
>Either that, learn pot control, LIVE pot control, Play the smaller game,
>where you win most times and lose less money. Play position
>aggressively (this is the one advantage of your image). The best you're
>going to able to do is win medium size pots, when you finally can't get
>bluffed off the hand. That's ok.
>Or get all the money in good. And stop worrying about out-playing your
>opponents. But then you're in the variance machine.
Against that field, you really have to be willing to go to the felt
with less than the nuts. For instance, my major gripe with Phil's
play is not that he eventually went broke. It's that he should have
gone broke the *previous* big hand he was in, with the king high
flush.
He also picked exactly the wrong time to go all-in, when he did, but
to be fair, that one was kind of just bad luck and bad timing. Phil
Ivey is completely unreadable and he couldn't have expected from the
previous action that the K would make Phil a hand good enough to call
with, since it seemed from the action that a draw was likely, and the
K didn't complete any of the draws. I can't fault his play on that
hand.
Bill T
> he has been a 'rank cash sucker" all his life . he has been broke several
> times .
He might have broken his poker bankroll a time or 2, but I doubt that
his has really been "broke" broke, with all his non-playing income.
BillB
"A Man Beaten by Jacks" <nob...@fool.foo> wrote in message
news:8dujn5d49dsp875at...@4ax.com...
Struck me as a very, very good player just playing out of his comfort
zone. He's at his best putting 10k down for 5 days of poker. That's a
far cry from putting 200k down for 1 hand of poker. He wasn't treating
those chips in front of him like 1 buyin.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
>Struck me as a very, very good player just playing out of his comfort
>zone.
He struck me as a very, very good big field NLHE tournament player,
and a very good tournament player in general, playing a cash game like
he plays a tournament.
>He's at his best putting 10k down for 5 days of poker. That's a
>far cry from putting 200k down for 1 hand of poker. He wasn't treating
>those chips in front of him like 1 buyin.
And that was his error. Everyone else at the table was. He doesn't
have the necessary contempt for money that the best cash players have;
a contempt for money which must be married to a very good grasp of the
actual equity of the hands he's playing. Players like durrr, if they
think their combination of winning with the bluff and sucking out if
called add up just slightly in their favor, will put it all in every
time.
I think durrr and Ivey are the best cash game players at the table so
far. I think Ivey is somewhat better, but the young gun is going to
bump heads with him, I'm sure. I'm looking forward to that. Both
players have eerie eye motion as they try to watch everyone at the
table simultaneously.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
>On Feb 15 2010 3:02 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>
>> Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
>>
>> Discuss.
>
>he has been a 'rank cash sucker" all his life . he has been broke several
>times .
Hellmuth's cash game habit kind of reminds me of T.J. Cloutier's craps
addiction. The difference is Cloutier knows it's all luck and he's an
addict, and Hellmuth is sure that he's the best player at the table,
and everyone is just getting lucky on him. All the time. Every time
he loses.
Irish Mike
> On Feb 15 2010 3:02 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>
> > Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
> >
> > Discuss.
>
>
> He is the worse player on HSP EVERY season.
SPOILER ALERT ************SPOILER ALERT
I am no Phil Helmuth fan - especially regarding his cash game play.
However, in all fairness, I would not rate his cash game play as
"terrible". Two "High Stakes Poker" hands come to mind.
The first was when Helmuth held 7-2 and bluffed Matasow off K-K with a
$40K bet on the river. Helmuth asked Matasow how much he had left and
Matasow replied (something like) $74K. Helmuth then made the $40K bet. I
thought that was a perfect amount because of the way Helmuth set it up
when a Q hit the board, to make it look like he had made a set and was
value betting. The second had was on the first episode of Season Six of
High Stakes Poker which show on 2/14/2010. Helmuth was heads-up against
Esfandari and held a King high spade flush. Esfandari held the nut Ace
high spade flush. Helmuth played the hand very well and ended up losing
the minimum. I think the vast majority of players, including a lot of
young pros, would have pushed and been felted on that hand. In addition,
Phil Helmuth is the greatest self-promoter that ever played a hand of
poker and he has the fame and money to prove it.
Now having said all that, I will add that Helmuth is indeed a whiny ass,
egotistical thin-skinned prima-donna. For example, when Esfandari knocked
Helmuth out of the European WSOP main event. Helmuth started with the
worst of it and was never ahead in the hand. When he got knocked out he
bitched about Esfandari for fifteen minutes to any one who would listen.
Irish Mike
I stood on the Dublin docks and my future was uncertain in a place where
fortunes are won or lost on the turning of a card.
________________________________________________________________________�
Irish Mike
> On Feb 15 2010 3:02 PM, A Man Beaten by Jacks wrote:
>
> > Phil Hellmuth is the worst cash player on HSP this season.
> >
> > Discuss.
>
> They started the new season? Exlent. He was pretty freakin' awful in the
> PAD cash game.
>
> Chandler
I think only a very few of the big name pros play their best in the PAD
cash games because the stakes aren't high enough. Ivey is a good example.
He always looks like he is bored shitless on PAD and spends most of his
time talking about getting out of there and going to play golf.
Irish Mike
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K9way
somewhere around June of 1990 there was tournament at the Maxim in Vegas
I met Phil and his wife . She played 4-8 HE and killed time while he was
in the tournaments
I remember her as being a real tall girl with short redish or brown hair .
She was right off the pumpkin truck and she told me how much she hated his
involvement with poker and how much time it took and that uit took her
away from what she knewe "back home ". She was a very unhappy lady. he was
a punk and she knew what everyone thought of him . She told me that he
basically broke and that the poker was destroying the world as she knew it
it kinda felt like when you go in to a restauraunt and the witress
unloads all her personal shit about her life . I had was being nice and
had no 'angle' or bad intentions . I just happened to be there when she
wanted to unload
As far as him being broke .. what you mention about endorsements and the
like .. they were completely non existent .
i have told you this before , but Chan and Helmuth and Keller and many
more of the "big names' in the poker boom of the early 80's ALL ended up
broke .. dead broke
I knew Chan and Helmuth and Keller and i saw it first hand
- Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll
just
kill you.
________________________________________________________________________�
XaQ Morphy
> somewhere around June of 1990 there was tournament at the Maxim in Vegas
> I met Phil and his wife . She played 4-8 HE and killed time while he was
> in the tournaments
>
> I remember her as being a real tall girl with short redish or brown hair .
> She was right off the pumpkin truck and she told me how much she hated his
> involvement with poker and how much time it took and that uit took her
> away from what she knewe "back home ". She was a very unhappy lady. he was
> a punk and she knew what everyone thought of him . She told me that he
> basically broke and that the poker was destroying the world as she knew it
> it kinda felt like when you go in to a restauraunt and the witress
> unloads all her personal shit about her life . I had was being nice and
> had no 'angle' or bad intentions . I just happened to be there when she
> wanted to unload
>
> As far as him being broke .. what you mention about endorsements and the
> like .. they were completely non existent .
>
> i have told you this before , but Chan and Helmuth and Keller and many
> more of the "big names' in the poker boom of the early 80's ALL ended up
> broke .. dead broke
>
> I knew Chan and Helmuth and Keller and i saw it first hand
Ok so let me ask you this, and I'm being serious. When people talk about
Hellmuth on RGP in 2010, do you think they are talking about the Phil
Hellmuth we see on TV, the one who has all of the endorsements and the 11
bracelets, or do you think they are talking about the Phil Hellmuth from
20 years ago?
---
Morphy
xaqm...@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
..and no, this doesn't mean I'm back.
Bill T
>
> somewhere around June of 1990 there was tournament at the Maxim in Vegas
> I met Phil and his wife . She played 4-8 HE and killed time while he was
> in the tournaments
>
> I remember her as being a real tall girl with short redish or brown hair .
> She was right off the pumpkin truck and she told me how much she hated his
> involvement with poker and how much time it took and that uit took her
> away from what she knewe "back home ".
I don't know about being "off the pumpkin truck". She would've been a
mere trainee back then, but at Stanford, and presumably knew how to use
a fork. You do know she can earn a good living on her own, right?
<<snip>>
> As far as him being broke .. what you mention about endorsements and the
> like .. they were completely non existent .
In 1990.
> i have told you this before , but Chan and Helmuth and Keller and many
> more of the "big names' in the poker boom of the early 80's ALL ended up
> broke .. dead broke
They probably made up for it in the real poker boom - 2000's.
>
> I knew Chan and Helmuth and Keller and i saw it first hand
I believe you that they used up their "bankroll" at times, but they
weren't sleeping on the streets for weeks on end.
K9way
> ...and no, this doesn't mean I'm back.
SAME FUCKIN GUY!!
- Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll
just
kill you.
-----�
K9way
> I don't know about being "off the pumpkin truck". She would've been a
> mere trainee back then, but at Stanford, and presumably knew how to use
> a fork. You do know she can earn a good living on her own, right?
I am intrigued by this response
do you know her ?
I have seen helmuths wife on tv and it isnt the girl i met in 1990. By off
the pumpkin truck , I simply meant that she was young and appeared to be a
bit overwhelmed by it all .
I meant no harm in the description . I am curious if you remember her name
or anything about her . I always kind of liked her after i met her . felt
sorry for her , but still thought she was OK people .
Not quite sure what you mean by "using a fork " , unless you are trying to
say she gained weight ?
-------�
Bill T
> do you know her ?
No I don't. I've passed by her a few times when I used to work in the
SF peninsula.
>
> I have seen helmuths wife on tv and it isnt the girl i met in 1990. By off
> the pumpkin truck , I simply meant that she was young and appeared to be a
> bit overwhelmed by it all .
Now I am puzzled. You mean there were 2 different women or that the
current Mrs. H. is more mature?
>
> I meant no harm in the description . I am curious if you remember her name
> or anything about her . I always kind of liked her after i met her . felt
> sorry for her , but still thought she was OK people .
I don't mean to suggest that you were anything other than kind in your
description. Mrs. H. is a physician.
Deadmoney Walking
Or nowthat he's in jail, maybe "Donald Trump-bankrupt" The people who
are always broke but it doesn't affect their lifestyle.
gtech1
assuming this story is true.
----�
A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
>I remember her as being a real tall girl with short redish or brown hair .
>She was right off the pumpkin truck and she told me how much she hated his
>involvement with poker and how much time it took and that uit took her
>away from what she knewe "back home ". She was a very unhappy lady. he was
>a punk and she knew what everyone thought of him . She told me that he
>basically broke and that the poker was destroying the world as she knew it
> it kinda felt like when you go in to a restauraunt and the witress
>unloads all her personal shit about her life . I had was being nice and
>had no 'angle' or bad intentions . I just happened to be there when she
>wanted to unload
I have no sympathy for anyone who marries Hellmuth.