Poker in Los Angeles

[John T. Savage]

Hello there, RGP.

So I'm moving across the country to Los Angeles, arriving in July. Among
other things I'm excited about the availability of poker. I've never
even been to L.A. before for longer than a night, so I've definitely
never played in the area, and don't even really understand what forms of
gambling are actually legal in CA.

I'm hoping the good people of this newsgroup can give me a lay of the
land -- what are some place you like to play? What are the games like?
How does it compare to Vegas? (I'm also of course very pleased that I'll
be hours from Vegas, and it seems like a weekend trip here and there
might be enough to scratch my poker itch..)

Any relevant thoughts are welcome. I'm also willing to bet on Trump over
Clinton, if the price is right...

[Bea Foroni]

Oh you, silly savage. Go to the Commerce Casino, poker heaven, find a seat and talk poker all night long.

[BillB]

On 22/05/2016 4:51 PM, John T. Savage wrote:

>I'm also willing to bet on Trump over
> Clinton, if the price is right...

Isn't everyone?

[T.Bagger]

LA has a few large clubs. Las Vegas has more poker rooms but are smaller. The Commerce Club has about 150 tables. The first time you walk in your jaw will drop. Other LA clubs are OK but the Commerce dominates the action. All games and limits are played.

Las Vegas or Los Angeles? It’s personal preference. LA has more games but you can only play in one game at a time. Most games and limits are readily available in both places but if you are strictly a ‘limit’ player LA is probably better. On the other hand if you are a no-limit player who plays normal size games i.e. $1/$2, $1/$3, and $2/$5 I would give the solid edge to Las Vegas because of the much better rake and the way it’s charged. Las Vegas beats LA in rake in all games. In fact, LA actually charges a drop, (not a 5% or 10% percentage rake). LA takes the max drop every hand if there is a flop.

The nicer rooms in Las Vegas like the Wynn, Bellagio, Venetian, Aria, and others have a much nicer ambience than LA. Playing in LA is like playing in a crowded noisy gymnasium. Most LA players are assholes. Of course there are some in Las Vegas too but in general people in LV are on vacation and usually in a less grumpy mood.

It’s rare for a Las Vegas resident to go to LA to play poker. It’s common for an LA resident to come to Las Vegas to play.

Jackpots. With some exceptions Las Vegas doesn’t have jackpots and Los Angeles does. Some people like jackpots but I don’t. In addition to the already sky high drop in LA extra money is taken out of every pot to fund the jackpot. It would be nice to hit one but most players go their whole life never hitting one while paying in thousands of dollars to the extra cost.

DISCLAIMER: I haven’t played in LA for well over a year so some info may be incorrect. All opinions given are my own but probably accurate.

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[Maverick]

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:52:00 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:

I can't believe anyone here talks as if they know anything about LA poker. Since I easily have the most experience, let me lay it out for you:
1. You will be constantly ass raped in rake no matter where you play in LA.
2. Your game will always be short handed as 3 players are always missing while they smoke or eat their stinky asian food at the table.
3. Idiot locals will miscall their hands constantly hoping you'll muck your hand...and they are proud of this and think nothing of it.
4. If you play NL HE, there will be massive cheaating that no one cares about where they either go north or south with big chips as needed. Furthermore, it won't matter if you catch it or it's on camera. The locals juice the floor who'll act helplessly ignorant as he allows it to happen.
5. Chat about poker my ass. Most player don't speak english all that well and they are degens and miserable and couldn't give a fuck about your desire to chat about the nuances of poker.
6. The dealers all suck and they all sit down behind the button when off duty and play till their blinds come and then leave.
7. You will get robbed in the parking lot at some point...and maybe followed him and shot to death if you hit a jackpot.
8/ There will be constant fights at the table. I've been at commerce when people have been shot....I've lost count how many times my life has been threatened.
9. The floors all expect to be toked at commerce and god forbid you need a decision and haven't toked them when your opp has
10. Service at commerce is comically terrible.

PS...oh did I mention you'll be ass raped in rake....$2 if you don't see the flop...which will happen constantly if your short game

[John T. Savage]

On 5/23/16, 12:16 AM, Maverick wrote:
>
> I can't believe anyone here talks as if they know anything about LA poker. Since I easily have the most experience, let me lay it out for you:

Holy shit Mav, thanks for this. This is clearly one of my all-time
favorite RGP posts, and I didn't even write it.

[popinjay]

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:16:09 PM UTC-7, Maverick wrote:



> 3. Idiot locals will miscall their hands constantly hoping you'll muck your hand...and they are proud of this and think nothing of it.

Mav, do you remember in the old days, when it was still lowball, and there was a rule if you OVER-called your hand and the opponent mucked, then the opponent could claim the pot. If I bet and you call with a 9, and I say "eight", you could muck your hand before I even show my cards and if I can't produce an eight, YOU get the pot, even though you never showed your hand either. That's how it was in Gardena anyway.

By the way, Mav, I played regularly, and I ALWAYS took good care of the floormen. How much extra do you think that earned me over the years with favorable decisions when there was an argument at the table?

[Maverick]

Ya, I remember the ol'lowbah days. I also remember you needed to bet a 7...but I was never a lowbah player...only once and the entire table tried to rig a jackpot and I had to exit myself from the table. My grandpa was an old gardena player when it was self deal. My first playing experience was when my dad dragged me into the normandy to play stud and I won $26.

[popinjay]

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 10:15:24 PM UTC-7, Maverick wrote:


>
> Ya, I remember the ol'lowbah days. I also remember you needed to bet a 7...but I was never a lowbah player...only once and the entire table tried to rig a jackpot and I had to exit myself from the table. My grandpa was an old gardena player when it was self deal. My first playing experience was when my dad dragged me into the normandy to play stud and I won $26.

That had to be about 1987, not all that long ago. I thought you were playing in Chico before that.

Mav, you probably caught the news from two weeks ago about the Normandy closing. It's the same shit they did to the card room in Chula Vista last year. Now I think Larry Flynt is going to try to buy it up, turn it into a Vegas-type joint, hotel and all. I don't like that mutherfucker.

[Bea Foroni]

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:16:09 PM UTC-7, Maverick wrote:

That's what I been saying! Except there is no better way to learn about poker than to actually go to the card club, let the dealer change a few day's salary into chips, and dive right in. The first time I went to a card club, I had a little cheat sheet listing the rank of each hand (a straight beats three of a kind, who'da guessed?)

>
> I can't believe anyone here talks as if they know anything about LA poker. Since I easily have the most experience, let me lay it out for you:
> 1. You will be constantly ass raped in rake no matter where you play in LA.

Not just rake, but tipping, too. L.A. card players are big tippers- try to keep up.

> 2. Your game will always be short handed as 3 players are always missing while they smoke or eat their stinky asian food at the table.
> 3. Idiot locals will miscall their hands constantly hoping you'll muck your hand...and they are proud of this and think nothing of it.

Idiot locals? I call those people friend, best friend, FOREVER! Never insult a bad player.

> 4. If you play NL HE, there will be massive cheaating that no one cares about where they either go north or south with big chips as needed. Furthermore, it won't matter if you catch it or it's on camera. The locals juice the floor who'll act helplessly ignorant as he allows it to happen.

It's been a long time since I made it to the C.C., but I felt they were more honest than the local poker pits around PDX.

> 5. Chat about poker my ass. Most player don't speak english all that well and they are degens and miserable and couldn't give a fuck about your desire to chat about the nuances of poker.

A chance to learn a little Viet Namise. The Russians (or whatever they were) were happy to practice their English. And the native English speakers were happy to have someone to talk to.

> 6. The dealers all suck and they all sit down behind the button when off duty and play till their blinds come and then leave.
> 7. You will get robbed in the parking lot at some point...and maybe followed him and shot to death if you hit a jackpot.
> 8/ There will be constant fights at the table. I've been at commerce when people have been shot....I've lost count how many times my life has been threatened.

A friend of mine was kicked out of a La Centre, Wa. club for returning discards a little too rigorously, first time, not really throwing cards at dealer. Reminder: good idea for video game.

> 9. The floors all expect to be toked at commerce and god forbid you need a decision and haven't toked them when your opp has

I lost quite a bit of money where the floorman ruled a spade royal beat a heart royal.

> 10. Service at commerce is comically terrible.
>

Service? What service? You don't eat casino food, do you? At the table? See my argument regarding doorknob licking.

> PS...oh did I mention you'll be ass raped in rake....$2 if you don't see the flop...which will happen constantly if your short game

And tips. If you are a winner you'll be expected to give more to the dealer than the house... after all he does all the work.

I think the Commerce Casino is the best place to play poker... in the world! One can remain anonymous for longer periods, not seeing the same old faces every time. Plenty of games. Weekends can be hectic with a lot of waiting.

Maybe what I like about the Commerce, is what you don't like. I have good memories of long hours waiting for a hand. The place is like that bar scene in "Star Wars" where people from all over the galaxy go to. Only much bigger. Either way, if one never has gone to the Commerce, one has never played poker in L.A.

[MINUS200]

I am far from an expert about LA poker but I have played there many
times while visiting my daughter in the past years. I have quit flying
and my trips to la la land have become limited since the 2000+ mile
drive, declining health, and advancing age makes the trip less
desirable. I will pass on a few of my opinions that will surely be
assaulted like most post here

Depending on where you live in the LA area the drive could be a serious
factor in which rooms you choose to play. My daughter lived in Newport
Beach and Laguna Beach (now just north of Dana Point with a beautiful
ocean view) so all the rooms were a hour or more drive during normal
traffic. (whatever the hell normal traffic means is in LA) Hawaiian
Gardens is the closest room to Orange County and IMHO has more "normal"
people and some with jobs than the other "big" rooms. There are many
choices for games at low limits (that includes the $20 and $40 max
buy-in 1-2NL room that is truly a poker zoo) There is an adequate
selection of middle to upper limit games but not nearly as many upper
limit games as found at the Commerce or Bicycle. I have little
experience with limit games higher than 20-40 since that is as high as I
normally play. Like all no limit games HG will vary tremendously.

I tend to lump the Commerce and Bike into the same pool. The players are
about the same and like most card rooms in LA the floor and dealers are
not user friendly but most of upper mgt seems to be professional. You
will see some angle shooting at all the casinos but I think the lower
and higher limits display the most. Higher games will have a few well
hidden partnerships and unless you have a lot of experience spotting
these players they will be almost invisible and only a lot of play will
expose who they are. Like all California poker rooms the action is
lively and is the only reason lower limits allow decent players to beat
the "drop". There are several other rooms (Casinos) but only one that I
know about and it is a little gem but located in Oceanside (little
closer to San Diego than LA). Compared to the big rooms in LA it is a
breath of fresh air. Cleaner with better dealers and reasonable floor
managers and the players are much "nicer" and even friendly. Depending
on where you live it might be considered a little far for a regular
poker night. It is much smaller than the other rooms but it will leave
a better impression when you leave. The players are better but easy to
follow and makes for profit with careful play

In almost all areas there are private and semi-private games and most of
these will require social or work related invitations but can be very
profitable. You will quickly be uninvited for being a jerk or "too
good". Good manners and not making weekly profits public will land you
a regular spot in these games. The old monthly game at Jerry Buss house
was a spectacular game with valet and police outside and 4 or 5 levels
of betting for a few amateurs honored with an invitation. I think that
game died 25 or so years ago but while it ran, the who's who of poker
pros played in the main game over a year span. If you keep you ears
opened the many charity tournaments can also lead to some private games.

The big Poker Casinos in LA provide plenty of poker but they do lack the
charm of the Las Vegas and there is a huge difference in who is sitting
next to you at all levels

[Bea Foroni]

Paulll!!!... He's top posting.

[Bea Foroni]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-7, MINUS200 wrote:

> There are several other rooms (Casinos) but only one that I
> know about and it is a little gem but located in Oceanside (little
> closer to San Diego than LA). Compared to the big rooms in LA it is a
> breath of fresh air. Cleaner with better dealers and reasonable floor
> managers and the players are much "nicer" and even friendly.

Playing poker when one is traveling, is a great way to get to know the place. And the best place to know L.A. is the Commerce (or the Bike if you get kicked out of the former).

My most memorable poker place has got to be Deadwood, SD. Wooden floors and sarsaparilla on tap. People didn't mind if you called them partner. And depending who you're talking to, you can be sitting where Wild Bill got his aces and eights.

[popinjay]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:


>
> Paulll!!!... He's top posting.

And he didn't really say anything. Took me five minutes to read, and he really didn't say nothin. He did confirm, however, that he is old, but I think we all knew that already. A top-posting, annoying old geezer.

[Bea Foroni]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 3:01:05 PM UTC-7, popinjay wrote:
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:43:23 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Paulll!!!... He's top posting.
>
>
> And he didn't really say anything. Took me five minutes to read, and he really didn't say nothin.

What do you think? Think he should have told black people to pull up their pants and talk with respect? Or maybe something about Muslims? Trilateral Commission always goes over well? Not one mention of dancing hooves... WTF!

[Clave]

"John T. Savage" <savag...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:nhtgg2$mod$2...@dont-email.me...

> Hello there, RGP.
>
> So I'm moving across the country to Los Angeles, arriving in July. Among
> other things I'm excited about the availability of poker. I've never even
> been to L.A. before for longer than a night, so I've definitely never
> played in the area, and don't even really understand what forms of
> gambling are actually legal in CA.
>
> I'm hoping the good people of this newsgroup can give me a lay of the
> land -- what are some place you like to play? What are the games like? How
> does it compare to Vegas? (I'm also of course very pleased that I'll be
> hours from Vegas, and it seems like a weekend trip here and there might be
> enough to scratch my poker itch..)

Here's what our friend Pop-Tard had to say when I asked a very similar
question:

Well here's the thing. Clave replied that he was looking for a
"good" card room recommendation, as if it was unreasonable for
me to ask why he hadn't used a map. Of course, he is just out
of his depth and it is so apparent. Is there a fucking card
room near Anaheim? Is therea fucking card room near Irvine?
I mean, if he wanted to know the "best" card room in LA, then
why didn't he ask which is the "best" card room in LA? Because
THERE'S NO FUCKING CARD ROOMS NEAR ANAHEIM OR IRVINE! Can't
Clave read a fucking map? Was he just too fucking lazy to do
anything himself? He couldn't even look at the area on a
fucking map? What a douche! Seriously.

Hope that helps.

[popinjay]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 3:12:17 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:


>
> What do you think? Think he should have told black people to pull up their pants and talk with respect? Or maybe something about Muslims? Trilateral Commission always goes over well? Not one mention of dancing hooves... WTF!

Nothing about licking doorknobs. The guy's pretty boring.

The good thing about top-posting, you can read it first and be done with it.

[popinjay]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 3:30:40 PM UTC-7, Clave wrote:



>
> Here's what our friend Pop-Tard had to say when I asked a very similar
> question:
>
> Well here's the thing. Clave replied that he was looking for a
> "good" card room recommendation, as if it was unreasonable for
> me to ask why he hadn't used a map. Of course, he is just out
> of his depth and it is so apparent. Is there a fucking card
> room near Anaheim? Is therea fucking card room near Irvine?
> I mean, if he wanted to know the "best" card room in LA, then
> why didn't he ask which is the "best" card room in LA? Because
> THERE'S NO FUCKING CARD ROOMS NEAR ANAHEIM OR IRVINE! Can't
> Clave read a fucking map? Was he just too fucking lazy to do
> anything himself? He couldn't even look at the area on a
> fucking map? What a douche! Seriously.
>
> Hope that helps.

John doesn't listen to my advice. So he can drive all over Anaheim and Irvine looking for a card room as far as I give a fuck.

[fffurken]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 11:12:17 PM UTC+1, Bea Foroni wrote:

> What do you think? Think he should have told black people to pull up their pants and talk with respect? Or maybe something about Muslims?

You called?

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon

"There are an estimated 6,000 to 10,000 Muslims in Oregon", population 4 million.

In other words, there are NO Muslims in Oregon.

[popinjay]

Geez, I truly didn't know there was such a difference. Oregon with 4 million, and California with almost 40 million. I drove up to Portland once, back in the 90s, went as far as La Center, and it was beautiful. I've never seen so many trees. It's a big state if you look on a map, why so few people?

During the peak of online gambling I was considering maybe moving to the coast of Oregon and just playing from my computer for a living, escaping from the California rat race. Glad I didn't.

[Maverick]

Ya, I heard about it...someone at the table said there was a problem with parking or whatever at the hustler and that was the reason he wants to develop the normandy site.

[John T. Savage]

On 5/23/16, 6:42 PM, popinjay wrote:
> John doesn't listen to my advice. So he can drive all over Anaheim and Irvine looking for a card room as far as I give a fuck.

Don't troll me, man. Do you know how many times I've played cards since
I posted here about being in Vegas, last summer? No times, that's how
many. Aren't you in the area somewhere? Why don't you take me under your
wing. Should I do Caro's missions at Commerce?

[Maverick]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:17:26 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:16:09 PM UTC-7, Maverick wrote:
>
>
> That's what I been saying! Except there is no better way to learn about poker than to actually go to the card club, let the dealer change a few day's salary into chips, and dive right in. The first time I went to a card club, I had a little cheat sheet listing the rank of each hand (a straight beats three of a kind, who'da guessed?)
>
> >
> > I can't believe anyone here talks as if they know anything about LA poker. Since I easily have the most experience, let me lay it out for you:
> > 1. You will be constantly ass raped in rake no matter where you play in LA.
>
>
> Not just rake, but tipping, too. L.A. card players are big tippers- try to keep up.

Not all LA players toke. I guarantee it.

>
>
>
> > 2. Your game will always be short handed as 3 players are always missing while they smoke or eat their stinky asian food at the table.
> > 3. Idiot locals will miscall their hands constantly hoping you'll muck your hand...and they are proud of this and think nothing of it.
>
>
> Idiot locals? I call those people friend, best friend, FOREVER! Never insult a bad player.

I didn't say they were bad players. They are anglers. LA is angler capitol of the poker world. No where else tolerates angles like LA rooms.

>
>
> > 4. If you play NL HE, there will be massive cheaating that no one cares about where they either go north or south with big chips as needed. Furthermore, it won't matter if you catch it or it's on camera. The locals juice the floor who'll act helplessly ignorant as he allows it to happen.
>
>
> It's been a long time since I made it to the C.C., but I felt they were more honest than the local poker pits around PDX.

Oh I've caught cheating in numerous places. But, I've only seen it actively tolerated once in vegas and countless times at Commerce.

>
>
>
> > 5. Chat about poker my ass. Most player don't speak english all that well and they are degens and miserable and couldn't give a fuck about your desire to chat about the nuances of poker.
>
>
> A chance to learn a little Viet Namise. The Russians (or whatever they were) were happy to practice their English. And the native English speakers were happy to have someone to talk to.
>
>
>
> > 6. The dealers all suck and they all sit down behind the button when off duty and play till their blinds come and then leave.
> > 7. You will get robbed in the parking lot at some point...and maybe followed him and shot to death if you hit a jackpot.
> > 8/ There will be constant fights at the table. I've been at commerce when people have been shot....I've lost count how many times my life has been threatened.
>
>
>
> A friend of mine was kicked out of a La Centre, Wa. club for returning discards a little too rigorously, first time, not really throwing cards at dealer. Reminder: good idea for video game.

Oh, in LA, I've seen player outright assault dealers with their cards. I mean card zipped right into their mugs...many times. I actually had an idea for a painting where I have a faceless dealer in the box getting a seven and a deuce stuck in his skull.

>
>
>
> > 9. The floors all expect to be toked at commerce and god forbid you need a decision and haven't toked them when your opp has
>
>
>
> I lost quite a bit of money where the floorman ruled a spade royal beat a heart royal.

Again...why I don't play NL...takes nothing for a floor to make a bad ruling and empty your stack while youu helplessly watch.

>
>
>
>
> > 10. Service at commerce is comically terrible.
> >
>
> Service? What service? You don't eat casino food, do you? At the table? See my argument regarding doorknob licking.

No, I use my comps at the gift shop where they don't expect a toke and can't taint your refreshments if you stiff them. I was merely commenting for the benefit of those who do order food because I have to tolerate their eternal whines because they can't get service. BTW, once ages ago CC served a "poker burger"...my buddy ordered one and when he bit into it a very audible "crunch" was heard. He reached into his mouth and pulled out a gigantic roach. The server didn't so much as apologize much less offer new food.

>
>
>
>
> > PS...oh did I mention you'll be ass raped in rake....$2 if you don't see the flop...which will happen constantly if your short game
>
> And tips. If you are a winner you'll be expected to give more to the dealer than the house... after all he does all the work.

Oh puhleeze...if the dealer doesn't like the meager tokes he earns, he's free to get a different job in life. So long as there is a surplus in dealers, the players are toking vastly too much.

>
> I think the Commerce Casino is the best place to play poker... in the world! One can remain anonymous for longer periods, not seeing the same old faces every time. Plenty of games. Weekends can be hectic with a lot of waiting.
>
> Maybe what I like about the Commerce, is what you don't like. I have good memories of long hours waiting for a hand. The place is like that bar scene in "Star Wars" where people from all over the galaxy go to. Only much bigger. Either way, if one never has gone to the Commerce, one has never played poker in L.A.

The only amusing thing to watch is the endless parade of deputy sheriffs who show up for their free food and free hookers up stairs.

[John T. Savage]

On 5/23/16, 6:30 PM, Clave wrote:
>
> Here's what our friend Pop-Tard had to say when I asked a very similar
> question:
>
> Well here's the thing. Clave replied that he was looking for a
> "good" card room recommendation, as if it was unreasonable for
> me to ask why he hadn't used a map. Of course, he is just out
> of his depth and it is so apparent. Is there a fucking card
> room near Anaheim? Is therea fucking card room near Irvine?
> I mean, if he wanted to know the "best" card room in LA, then
> why didn't he ask which is the "best" card room in LA? Because
> THERE'S NO FUCKING CARD ROOMS NEAR ANAHEIM OR IRVINE! Can't
> Clave read a fucking map? Was he just too fucking lazy to do
> anything himself? He couldn't even look at the area on a
> fucking map? What a douche! Seriously.
>
> Hope that helps.
>

This is valuable, but I think your question was pretty different than
mine. You haven't posted it here, or provided a link to the original
thread you are quoting, so it's difficult to compare. But this response
you've posted would clearly make no sense as a response to my OP. Who is
talking about Anaheim? I won't be near Anaheim.

[John T. Savage]

On 5/23/16, 5:25 PM, MINUS200 wrote:
>
> Depending on where you live in the LA area the drive could be a serious
> factor in which rooms you choose to play.

It's never wise to say too much on RGP about where one lives, but
probably somewhere in "Westside". I don't know anything about LA. This
happened very fast.

> Hawaiian
> Gardens is the closest room to Orange County and IMHO has more "normal"
> people and some with jobs than the other "big" rooms.

> Like all California poker rooms the action is
> lively and is the only reason lower limits allow decent players to beat
> the "drop".

> Cleaner with better dealers and reasonable floor
> managers and the players are much "nicer" and even friendly.

Sometimes these quotes are unnecessary, but that's your style and I get
that. I appreciate that you always used double quotes. Personally, I
think apostrophes for such things are always wrong, but you may disagree.

>
> In almost all areas there are private and semi-private games and most of
> these will require social or work related invitations but can be very
> profitable. You will quickly be uninvited for being a jerk or "too
> good". Good manners and not making weekly profits public will land you a
> regular spot in these games. The old monthly game at Jerry Buss house
> was a spectacular game with valet and police outside and 4 or 5 levels
> of betting for a few amateurs honored with an invitation. I think that
> game died 25 or so years ago but while it ran, the who's who of poker
> pros played in the main game over a year span. If you keep you ears
> opened the many charity tournaments can also lead to some private games.
>

This is what I'm talking about! Can I get in Kobe's home game or
something? There must be a lot of celebs into poker who don't know what
they're doing. Maybe I need to become a Scientologist.

> The big Poker Casinos in LA provide plenty of poker but they do lack the
> charm of the Las Vegas and there is a huge difference in who is sitting
> next to you at all levels
>

Yes, Maverick has already deftly described the "charm", and I am looking
forward to it.

[John T. Savage]

On 5/22/16, 9:06 PM, T.Bagger wrote:
> Most games and limits are readily available in both places but if you are strictly a ‘limit’ player LA is probably better.

This is interesting. I used to play limit mostly but have basically made
the transition to NLHE by now out of necessity. My limit game is full of
rust but this kinda sounds fun. I didn't notice any limit games in Vegas
worth playing last I was there.

>
> Jackpots. With some exceptions Las Vegas doesn’t have jackpots and Los Angeles does. Some people like jackpots but I don’t.

Of course, jackpots are horrible. And this rake situation sounds bad. Bah.

> ╔════╗──────────────╔═══╗╔═══╗╔╗╔═══╗─╔╗╔╗╔╗
> ╚═╗╔═╝──────────────╚══╗║║╔═╗║║║║╔══╝─║║║║║║
> ──║║╔══╦╗╔╦════╦══╗─╔══╝║║║─║║║║║╚══╗─║║║║║║
> ──║║║╔═╣║║║╔╗╔╗║╔╗║─║╔══╝║║─║║║║║╔═╗║─╚╝╚╝╚╝
> ──║║║║─║╚╝║║║║║║╚╝║─║╚══╗║╚═╝║║║║╚═╝║─╔╗╔╗╔╗
> ──╚╝╚╝─╚══╩╝╚╝╚╣╔═╝─╚═══╝╚═══╝╚╝╚═══╝─╚╝╚╝╚╝
> ───────────────║║
> ───────────────╚╝

Nice. Who says the Trump campaign is bad at using data?

[risky biz]

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:16:09 PM UTC-7, Maverick wrote:

> On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:52:00 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:
> > Hello there, RGP.
> >
> > So I'm moving across the country to Los Angeles, arriving in July. Among
> > other things I'm excited about the availability of poker. I've never
> > even been to L.A. before for longer than a night, so I've definitely
> > never played in the area, and don't even really understand what forms of
> > gambling are actually legal in CA.
> >
> > I'm hoping the good people of this newsgroup can give me a lay of the
> > land -- what are some place you like to play? What are the games like?
> > How does it compare to Vegas? (I'm also of course very pleased that I'll
> > be hours from Vegas, and it seems like a weekend trip here and there
> > might be enough to scratch my poker itch..)
> >
> > Any relevant thoughts are welcome. I'm also willing to bet on Trump over
> > Clinton, if the price is right...
>
> I can't believe anyone here talks as if they know anything about LA poker. Since I easily have the most experience, let me lay it out for you:

~ 1. You will be constantly ass raped in rake no matter where you play in LA.

> 2. Your game will always be short handed as 3 players are always missing while they smoke or eat their stinky asian food at the table.
> 3. Idiot locals will miscall their hands constantly hoping you'll muck your hand...and they are proud of this and think nothing of it.
> 4. If you play NL HE, there will be massive cheaating that no one cares about where they either go north or south with big chips as needed. Furthermore, it won't matter if you catch it or it's on camera. The locals juice the floor who'll act helplessly ignorant as he allows it to happen.
> 5. Chat about poker my ass. Most player don't speak english all that well and they are degens and miserable and couldn't give a fuck about your desire to chat about the nuances of poker.
> 6. The dealers all suck and they all sit down behind the button when off duty and play till their blinds come and then leave.
> 7. You will get robbed in the parking lot at some point...and maybe followed him and shot to death if you hit a jackpot.
> 8/ There will be constant fights at the table. I've been at commerce when people have been shot....I've lost count how many times my life has been threatened.
> 9. The floors all expect to be toked at commerce and god forbid you need a decision and haven't toked them when your opp has
> 10. Service at commerce is comically terrible.
>
> PS...oh did I mention you'll be ass raped in rake....$2 if you don't see the flop...which will happen constantly if your short game

What a great game poker is. How could anyone possibly lose interest in it?

[risky biz]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 3:46:13 PM UTC-7, fffurken wrote:

<dumbest, just dumbest, post of the thread>

[risky biz]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:41:05 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:
> On 5/22/16, 9:06 PM, T.Bagger wrote:
> > Most games and limits are readily available in both places but if you are strictly a ‘limit’ player LA is probably better.
>
> This is interesting. I used to play limit mostly but have basically made
> the transition to NLHE by now out of necessity. My limit game is full of
> rust but this kinda sounds fun. I didn't notice any limit games in Vegas
> worth playing last I was there.

No Limit Hold'Em
1-3, 2-5, 5-10, 10-20 blinds and Higher

Limit Hold'Em
4-8, 10-20, 20-40, 40-80, 80-160 and Higher

Pot Limit Omaha
1-3, 2-5, 5-10, 10-20 and Higher

7 Card Stud
20-40, 40-80 and Higher

Mixed Games
4-8, 30-60, 40-80 and Higher
https://www.bellagio.com/en/casino/poker.html

[popinjay]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:24:01 PM UTC-7, Maverick wrote:
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 2:17:26 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:




> >
> > Idiot locals? I call those people friend, best friend, FOREVER! Never insult a bad player.
>
> I didn't say they were bad players. They are anglers. LA is angler capitol of the poker world. No where else tolerates angles like LA rooms.
>

I saw this earlier and was going to correct her but somehow I got sidetracked. Bea gets a lot of things wrong. It's almost as if English is not her first language.

[popinjay]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:25:02 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


>
> This is valuable, but I think your question was pretty different than
> mine.

Yes, it probably is different. YOU, I'm sure can read a map.

[popinjay]

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:17:56 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


>
> Don't troll me, man. Do you know how many times I've played cards since
> I posted here about being in Vegas, last summer? No times, that's how
> many.

Missions $20, Burning the Tables another $20, maybe even less, hard cover. Best advice anyone has ever given you on this piece of shit newsgroup, I am quite sure. Have you bought either one yet? I would bet my left nut the answer is no. Do you think I'm funny? What, like a clown? Do I amuse you?

[halfpastdead9]

funny you mention chico..back in the day they had an "all draw " loball game .. dealt 4 cards b4 draw and there were no pat hands .. drove down from redding a couple of times .. maybe 1980 -81

[popinjay]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 12:00:49 AM UTC-7, halfpastdead9 wrote:


>
> funny you mention chico..back in the day they had an "all draw " loball game .. dealt 4 cards b4 draw and there were no pat hands .. drove down from redding a couple of times .. maybe 1980 -81

Interesting. I've seen a lot of variations but never played like that. Sounds fun. (especially if you were in the game)

Hey Doggy, after all these years I still have an occasional reoccuring dream. I am raising and raising and the pot is getting huge, and then I look back at my hand and it is garbage, either that or there are six cards. It's a nightmare. Have you ever had a similar dream?

[da pickle]

Here is another useful thread with Bea being a harpy. WTF

[popinjay]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:09:40 AM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:



>
> Here is another useful thread with Bea being a harpy. WTF

Don't you know? Bea, and her "mate" are millionaires. She can do anything she wants. She's a millionaire, and spends her life being negative and ruining a newsgroup. Plus, she's been everywhere, done everything, and, of course, knows everything.

[VegasJerry]

I kinda like Poker in Las Vegas – in the form of NLH ON LINE. Nine and six player tables. Small rakes. Small buy ins. Small blinds. And the only out of state players are in Delaware.

WSOP, on line, near you. Just get your stated to join in.

Jerry (25¢ & 50¢) ‘n Vegas

[popinjay]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 7:33:55 AM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:


> I kinda like Poker in Las Vegas – in the form of NLH ON LINE. Nine and six player tables. Small rakes. Small buy ins. Small blinds. And the only out of state players are in Delaware.
>

I thought New Jersey was in on it too, numbnuts.

[Bea Foroni]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 7:33:55 AM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:

>

> WSOP, on line, near you. Just get your stated to join in.
>

Jerry, you call me a joke. But this is a prime example as to why everyone thinks you're senile. WTF does this mean?

[risky biz]

It means the 'e' key is next to the 'd' key.

[VegasJerry]

It was supposed to be, but that right-wing-nut governor Christ Kristy was busy kissing Sheldon Adelson's ass for money and blocked it. Fucking Republicans...

[VegasJerry]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:

It means you're a joke. If you get your STATE to join in, you can play on line.

(Offer not good in New Jersey..)

[VegasJerry]

(Fucking cheap-o HP keyboarde

[Clave]

"da pickle" <jcpi...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PsadneWm_7uSOdjK...@giganews.com...

Yet another content-free post from Stupid Pickle. Amazing.

[Bea Foroni]

It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

So all I have to do is get my state to sign up for internet poker. I didn't realize it was so simple. Well, next time the government guy stops by, I'll make my request. Thanks for clearing that up. Next time some one calls you a whack-a-noodle, I'll be sure to point out you don't like pasta.

[halfpastdead9]

no but your dream reminds me of a big hand that came down in Elsinore in the "deal your own " games 15-30.. a million bets in before draw and dealer picks up deck to deal out the draw. After the 3 rd card it is pointed out that the dealer had just uncapped their hand and was dealing out their pat hand as draw cards

[da pickle]

I do not remember much about draw poker. What exactly does "uncapped
their hand" and "dealing out of their pat hand" mean?

[Bea Foroni]

It means they have knowledge you do not. It means they remember games from forty years ago as if it happened yesterday. It means their knowledge is so deep, that you'll never match them.

I remember two facts from that period; the games were so slow, drawn out, and populated with old people that were boring. I also remember the reputation of those card clubs being dishonest.

Poker in L.A. didn't take off until dealers were employees and there were games other than draw poker. Sometimes dinosaurs are interesting, sometimes not so much.

[VegasJerry]

Far be it for me to start an argument with you,
but I no longer finde it amazing.

Jerry 'n Vegas

[VegasJerry]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:21:14 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:

> It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

Even when the tool’s the problem?

> So all I have to do is get my state to sign up for internet poker. I didn't realize it was so simple.

Gladed to have been of assistanced.

Jerry ‘n Vegas

[popinjay]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 4:25:46 AM UTC-7, halfpastdead9 wrote:


>
> no but your dream reminds me of a big hand that came down in Elsinore in the "deal your own " games 15-30.. a million bets in before draw and dealer picks up deck to deal out the draw. After the 3 rd card it is pointed out that the dealer had just uncapped their hand and was dealing out their pat hand as draw cards

ugh! That was messy.

However, it reminds me of a move I used to do, and did it well. Let's say I'm dealing, and do not intend to play. You are next to me, to my left, and signal me you need a five. If I have a five, I palm it in my right hand which also holds the four cards I am going to discard. In one fluid swoop I muck my four cards and quickly grab the stub, which is sitting there with a chip on it. I drop the chip and place the five on top of the stub and quickly deal a second as the burn card and place the chip on the burn card. Your five is delivered right to you, no problem with watchful eyes because the work has been done already. It worked good in high draw too, you could have made a lot of flushes and inside straights sitting next to me in those days.

By the way, some of this I did at Elsinore, as long as you mention the place. I eventually wore out my welcome there, but it was a gravy train. I was too young, immature, and greedy. I regularly took care of a couple floormen. Somehow the word finally got out that I could make a deck of cards sit up and say momma. That wasn't good. All those years in jail I had nothing to do but practice cheating and making pruno. My locker was always full. And all the blacks, of course they were so cool, all of them pimps, players, and hustlers, even though some never got no visits or commissary, this dumb white boy used to cheat the shit out of them fools. All the while they thought I was lucky. Yep, I was a lucky cheater.

[popinjay]

When you're dealing, you place your hand in front of you with a chip on it. Normally, in Southern California you could discard when the action got to you, even though you have already given everyone their draw cards. But up in Northern California you generally had to discard BEFORE you touched that deck, or your hand is pat. But I digress. Doggy meant the dealer picked up his own hand to deal from instead of the stub.

[popinjay]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 9:39:21 AM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:


>
> I remember two facts from that period; the games were so slow, drawn out, and populated with old people that were boring. I also remember the reputation of those card clubs being dishonest.
>

Sure, Bea, the $15-30 raise-blind games at the Bike were slow and boring. You idiot.

> Poker in L.A. didn't take off until dealers were employees and there were games other than draw poker. Sometimes dinosaurs are interesting, sometimes not so much.

I guess that's why the waiting lists were a mile long when there were only six clubs in Gardena on a Friday night, at 11:00 p.m. when the quarter horses let out. You are so full of shit. One really needs to take anything you say with a grain of sand. You are full of shit so often. It doesn't even embarrass you.

[Bea Foroni]

So Paul, now's your chance to put away your fairy wand and presents some facts. Which casino was the first to offer employee dealers, and when?

[da pickle]

That is a sad story, Paul.

[popinjay]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:


> So Paul, now's your chance to put away your fairy wand and presents some facts. Which casino was the first to offer employee dealers, and when?

In LA? Probably Commerce. Bell was all round tables, Gardena was all round tables, so probably Commerce. But I'm guessing, because I don't remember. Do you have a different answer? Unless it was the Bike, I seem to first remember jackpots at the Bike. I dunno.

[da pickle]

I was worried about the word "their" ... I think you are saying the
dealer uncapped "his" hand and was dealing "his" pat hand. At least I
think that is what you are saying. That makes sense.

[popinjay]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:43:34 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:


>
> That is a sad story, Paul.

I don't cheat now, isn't that all that matters? I don't break the law now either, isn't that all that matters? Didn't Apostle Paul used to kill Christians?

[popinjay]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:47:15 PM UTC-7, da pickle wrote:



>
> I was worried about the word "their" ... I think you are saying the
> dealer uncapped "his" hand and was dealing "his" pat hand. At least I
> think that is what you are saying. That makes sense.

That's the way I read it.

[popinjay]

Well, bitch, are you going to answer this? You posed a fucking question, I responded, and now you dropped it. Either carry through, or shut the fuck up from now on.

[Bea Foroni]

Yes. No. Loser.

So when were the first employee dealers hired? Because that was when poker became popular. The dealer/player was intimidating and gave no confidence that the games weren't rigged. If you can't answer those question (where and when) your history of L.A. poker is lacking.

And you dropped the ball. "Probably Commerce" is not an answer. It is a weak titted guess (no surprise from a man whose entire life is run by emotions), and it is probably wrong as I was a regular at the Bike for a while before I was convinced the Commerce was a good place to play.

[popinjay]

Well what is the answer then, cocksucker? I think it had to be Commerce or the Bike, which would have put it around 1985 or 1984 because it was done when it was still draw only. I'm going by memory, bitch. If you think I'm wrong, just spit it out.

[popinjay]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:

> So Paul, now's your chance to put away your fairy wand and presents some facts. Which casino was the first to offer employee dealers, and when?

Since you appear to have moved on and shut your big mouth, I'll take that as a you don't know the answer anyway.

[Bea Foroni]

Right loser, I don't ask questions I already know the answers to.

[popinjay]

On Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 11:12:35 AM UTC-7, Bea Foroni wrote:


>
> Right loser, I don't ask questions I already know the answers to.

So you know the answer, but you're going to keep it a secret.

Anyway, Gardena was extremely busy, and world famous, way before they had center dealers. So again, you don't know what you're talking about.

[halfpastdead9]

EXACTLY CORRECT on all points . and I think at one time the Bell Club had dealers

[halfpastdead9]

I call BS.. You are simply playing to the Russ crowd . First of all you could hold 2 cards and NEVER have to deal a second ..total troll

[popinjay]

On Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 12:09:44 PM UTC-7, halfpastdead9 wrote:


> and I think at one time the Bell Club had dealers
>

Maybe, but I clearly remember round tables when I played there. Of course, I was there when it opened. I do not remember dealers at Bell.

I remember a pretty busy little bar at Bell. I bet YOU were in there.

[John T. Savage]

On 5/24/16, 3:13 AM, popinjay wrote:
> On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 9:17:56 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:
>> Don't troll me, man. Do you know how many times I've played cards since
>> I posted here about being in Vegas, last summer? No times, that's how
>> many.
>
> Missions $20, Burning the Tables another $20, maybe even less, hard cover. Best advice anyone has ever given you on this piece of shit newsgroup, I am quite sure. Have you bought either one yet? I would bet my left nut the answer is no. Do you think I'm funny? What, like a clown? Do I amuse you?

Do you have them for sale? I'm here now, been a few weeks. Drove and
have a stop in Vegas where I ran pretty good. I even won a pot against
POTB. I am likely to get out to a cardroom this weekend, probably tomorrow.

I guess I'm just going to Commerce?! But if you're willing to meet me
someplace and sell me the books, I can play other places. Hollywood Park
is closest. But you are probably out amongst the alfalfa somewhere.

Snapchat me?

[popinjay]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 7:34:11 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


>
> Do you have them for sale? I'm here now, been a few weeks. Drove and
> have a stop in Vegas where I ran pretty good. I even won a pot against
> POTB. I am likely to get out to a cardroom this weekend, probably tomorrow.
>
> I guess I'm just going to Commerce?! But if you're willing to meet me
> someplace and sell me the books, I can play other places. Hollywood Park
> is closest. But you are probably out amongst the alfalfa somewhere.
>
> Snapchat me?

Gosh, this is a surprise. John, I don't live in Los Angeles now, I'm closer to Fresno. Take a look in the Commerce giftshop. Otherwise, I may be able to scan something. You should have picked it up in Vegas. And I don't know what a snapchat is, I think that's something Hillary Clinton uses.

[John T. Savage]

On 7/22/16, 8:21 PM, popinjay wrote:
> Gosh, this is a surprise. John, I don't live in Los Angeles now, I'm closer to Fresno. Take a look in the Commerce giftshop. Otherwise, I may be able to scan something. You should have picked it up in Vegas. And I don't know what a snapchat is, I think that's something Hillary Clinton uses.

Aha, not sure where I got the idea you were down here somewhere. Oh
well. Stay cool. Glad I'm here to offset your vote.

[popinjay]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 8:41:13 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


>
> Aha, not sure where I got the idea you were down here somewhere. Oh
> well. Stay cool. Glad I'm here to offset your vote.

Probably because I spent most of my life in Los Angeles.

Maybe I'll outsmart you and not vote. That will fix you. Did you think I just got off the turnip truck?

[Bea Foroni]

If you want the books you can down load it from Amazon for about $6 and read it on your Kindle, tablet, or smartphone.
https://www.amazon.com/Burning-Tables-Las-Vegas-Andersen-ebook/dp/B005LW1XQ2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1469247760&sr=8-2&keywords=burning+the+tables+in+las+vegas#navbar

[John T. Savage]

I want to have a chat with Mr. Popinjay more than I want the books, but
thanks, Bea. I'm a little offended you think I might own a Kindle, but
I'll get over it.

[John T. Savage]

It doesn't really matter *when* you got off the turnip truck, does it? I
do think it might have happened at some point. Good for you.

I'm still alone here, my wife is working in Boston and like 10 days
away. Friday night in an Airbnb in Venice Beach. Good time to get back
to refreshing RGP.

[popinjay]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:49:09 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


> Friday night in an Airbnb in Venice Beach. Good time to get back
> to refreshing RGP.

You're in Venice right now? That was my stomping grounds. I ran all over that place as a kid and teen, parents could not control me. Hippies, long hair, love beads, peace signs. There was an amusement park called POP, Pacific Ocean Park, on the line between Venice and Santa Monica. Later years saw concerts, political rallies, and riots on that beach.

I was like 14. I jumped off one of the little tram buses and fell like a fool, scraped my knee. Two adults were sitting down and drinking beer and they started laughing at me in front of all the people and telling me I wasn't so smart for falling off the bus. I calmly walked up to them, in broad daylight, and pulled out a .380 automatic out of my pocket and pointed it at them. Amazing, they stopped laughing. My friend hustled me away before we could get arrested. I was pissed. 14, and pissed.

[John T. Savage]

That is a wild story. Man, you need to get down to LA and let me buy you
drinks. I'm sure you can figure out how to find me (hint: not snapchat.
And my first name is Albert). Would you rather have a TV? Let me know
what it takes. Cheers.

[popinjay]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 11:46:02 PM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


>
> That is a wild story. Man, you need to get down to LA and let me buy you
> drinks. I'm sure you can figure out how to find me (hint: not snapchat.
> And my first name is Albert). Would you rather have a TV? Let me know
> what it takes. Cheers.

I don't drink now. And I am sure that I would freak out if I drove over the mountains separating Los Angeles from the Central Valley, although I have driven that route hundreds of times. I now have anxiety and panic attacks and keep myself sedated with lorazepam. I do not know how I would handle a flight because I have not flown in years, way before my anxiety started being a problem. They might have to stop the plane, pull over, and let me get off.

[John T. Savage]

Well, fuck. If I could think of a reason to visit Fresno. Uhh... ?

[BillB]

On 23/07/2016 12:08 AM, John T. Savage wrote:

> Well, fuck. If I could think of a reason to visit Fresno. Uhh... ?

You ran out of meth and you need to reload.

[popinjay]

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 12:08:44 AM UTC-7, John T. Savage wrote:


>
> Well, fuck. If I could think of a reason to visit Fresno. Uhh... ?

I can't, and I live in this fucking rat hole. Trust me, as soon as I am able to get out of here, I am retiring to Vegas. First thing I'll do when I get there is put a down payment on a grave site. Then I'll probably go get a buffet.

[popinjay]

I actually did think of the same thing, but I know John is a good boy (and smart) and doesn't do that kinda shit.

[Clave]

"BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote in message news:nmv5lf$g4h$2...@dont-email.me...

> On 23/07/2016 12:08 AM, John T. Savage wrote:
>
>> Well, fuck. If I could think of a reason to visit Fresno. Uhh... ?
>
> You ran out of meth and you need to reload.

You miss the color brown.

[John T. Savage]

So I went to Hollywood Park. First off I'm not feeling very well today.
I drank too much last night -- the glasses in this Airbnb have fooled me
a couple times now. So I didn't really stay that long. I wasn't up for
the slog to Commerce, which is probably a bad drive from here. Maybe
next time.

There were a lot of limit games, at least 3-6, 4-8, 8-16. Funny thing is
now I'm a better NL player than limit, it's been so long since I've seen
limit anywhere. But if anything is beatable it would be the 8-16 and
what do people like about that game..? Is stacking blue chips so fun? I
might be interested in a 5-10 or a 10-20.

The NL games are weird. In Vegas, the game I'm still liking the best is
the 1-2 NL at the Nugget with no max buy-in. I was there around the
first and remember an occasion where I had run up to $700 and was not in
the top five stacks at the table. That game can be great, and you can
see an orbit for $3, and play hands out naturally without ending up all-in.

Here, the games are capped and the blinds are high. It was Saturday
afternoon I guess, but if you wanted to play 1-2 NL the buy in was
$40-$100. $100? The biggest NL game they had was $100-$300 with 3-5
blinds. This seems strange to me. So I played that, at least you can get
$300 on the table. I lost $50 in about four hours, but nothing much
happened.

It's not a bad place, and it probably isn't a bad game. I'll have to
think about this structure some more. It must take some of the skill out
of the game. But in return, when you run good and end up with an
appropriate stack, most of your opponents are short, and that's a great
situation. Unfortunately, when you sit down, there will probably be
several guys at the table who are already in that situation, at your
expense.

Today it was definitely full of extremely loose, aggressive players who
were very exploitable, but I have no idea how typical that is. It's
possible people react to these low caps poorly, making the games better
automatically. But the regulars must be used to it. Is the idea to keep
people from going broke too fast? A $300 cap is reasonable for a 1/2
game, not a 3/5.

[popinjay]

Honestly I have not played at Hollypark in maybe ten years. But gosh, I played there a lot in the late 90s and early 2000s. Hollypark was one of the best card rooms for stud action. Sometimes they would have four $20-40 games going at once. The clientele was, uh, a little different from Commerce and the Bike. So I played a lot of stud then. Hold'em was all limit back then, the NL craze had not started. Normandie still had lowball and I played thousands of hours there too. Then I discovered online poker in about 2001, and didn't leave my bedroom for six years.

John, there's some tough neighborhoods around. If you don't know where you're at, just be careful. Stay alert.