OT: The Full Extent of the Disaster
lawh...@hiwaay.net
and Atmospheric Administration), has detected underwater oil plumes as
far as 142 miles away from the source of the oil leak in the Gulf of
Mexico. We’re now at day 50 of the crisis. BP and our Government say
it will be mid-August before a relief well is drilled, so we’re not
even half way through this environmental catastrophe. By the time the
relief well is drilled and the gusher is stopped, the oil will
probably have zipped around the southern tip of Florida and up the
eastern seaboard. If the British are real [un]lucky, they might even
see some of the oil on their beaches. By that point most of the Gulf
of Mexico will be a dead zone. Get used to the sight of dead animals
floating on the surface. Prices at the pump are bound to go up. When
that happens, that will be the point when people really get fed up
with BP - and with President Obama. This is so reminiscent of the
1979-1980 Iranian hostage crisis when President Carter seemed
powerless to deal with a desperate situation that dragged on
interminably. This is shaping up to be both a political as well as an
environmental disaster.
Alan C. Lawhon
Huntsville, Alabama
Dave the Clueless
Settle down, the President is using his crack team of Harvard MBAs to find
some ass to kick. That ought to put things right.
_______________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Bea Attitude
Thing is we will never know the real extent of the damage. The oil
companies own the government and the media is dependent on them.
Here is how I figure it. The Gulf is like a giant washing machine,
swirling water around and around. Water is the universal solvent. Oil
is made of hydrocarbons. Oil in the swirling Gulf waters is breaking
down those hydrocarbons and rebuilding them The Gulf is saltwater,
meaning there are various salts in the water. These salts are
combining with the oil hydrocarbons, creating a soup of aromatics and
carcinogenic compounds. Teh number of newly created compounds is
endless with the results being not healthy.
And now I hear there may be a new leak somewhere else in the Gulf. Is
this how America ends.
Smithsonian Institute Blues
Singin' the Smithsonian Institute blues
The way it's goin' La Brea tar pits
I know you just can't lose
The new dinosaur is walkin' in the old one's shoes
Come on down t' the big dig
Can't get around the big dig
This may be premature but if I'm wrong
You can just say it's the first time I was happy t' be confused
Singin' the Smithsonian Institute blues
Alll you new dinosaurs
Now it's up t' you t' choose
It sure looks funny for a new dinosaur
T' be in an old dinosaur's shoes
Dina Shore's shoes
Dinosaur shoes
C'mon down to the big dig
You can't get around the big dig
C'mon to the big dig
Ya can't get around the big dig
Singin' the Smithsonian Institute blues
Captain Beefheart
mo_charles
> > and Atmospheric Administration), has detected underwater oil plumes as
> > far as 142 miles away from the source of the oil leak in the Gulf of
> > Mexico. We’re now at day 50 of the crisis. BP and our Government say
> > it will be mid-August before a relief well is drilled, so we’re not
> > even half way through this environmental catastrophe. By the time the
> > relief well is drilled and the gusher is stopped, the oil will
> > probably have zipped around the southern tip of Florida and up the
> > eastern seaboard. If the British are real [un]lucky, they might even
> > see some of the oil on their beaches. By that point most of the Gulf
> > of Mexico will be a dead zone. Get used to the sight of dead animals
> > floating on the surface. Prices at the pump are bound to go up. When
> > that happens, that will be the point when people really get fed up
> > with BP - and with President Obama. This is so reminiscent of the
> > 1979-1980 Iranian hostage crisis when President Carter seemed
> > powerless to deal with a desperate situation that dragged on
> > interminably. This is shaping up to be both a political as well as an
> > environmental disaster.
>
> some ass to kick. That ought to put things right.
there isn't a businessman or manager within miles of this white house.
more like: obama's herded his lawyers to concoct, deflect, lie, and
confuse.
mo_charles
________________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
Tad Perry
have already completely walked away from oil a long time ago. But just to
satisfy a status quo and keep money flowing along the same lines it always
has, we have failed to do this. Solar, solar, solar. Stop burning things or
say goodbye to the planet we knew. It's so simple.
tvp
<lawh...@HiWAAY.net> wrote in message
news:ecbac55d-3106-4d42...@w31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
bub
"The worst spill of all time was truly a man-made disaster, but it was
no accident. As U.S. Marines readied an amphibious landing at Kuwait's
Sea Island terminal during the first Gulf War in 1991, Iraqi forces
opened valves and emptied whole tankers, spilling 10.3 million barrels
of oil into the Persian Gulf, three times the amount released in the
Ixtoc spill."
"The worst spill ever to hit the Gulf of Mexico, and the
second-biggest of all time, was the 1980 blowout of the Ixtoc I
exploratory well drilled in Mexican waters by Petroleos Mexicanos. It
took nine months to cap, during which time the well spewed more than 3
million barrels into the gulf, or more than 10,000 barrels a day."
"It was almost as bad when the Atlantic Empress collided with another
tanker, the Aegean Captain, in 1979. It continued leaking while being
towed and 2.1 million barrels of oil ended up in the oceans off
Trinidad & Tobago.
Four years later, in 1983, a tanker ran into an oil production
platform in the Nowruz oil field off Iran's shores. For more than a
year, 1,500 barrels a day poured into Persian Gulf, a total of 1.9
million barrels. That same year, the tanker Castillo de Bellver
caught fire in Saldanha Bay, South Africa. It broke in two off the
coast of Cape Town, spilling 1.8 million barrels of oil. Luckily,
winds pushed the slick out to sea, preventing environmental damage
onshore."
and we're still here.
Lab Rat
> Thing is we will never know the real extent of the damage. The oil
> companies own the government and the media is dependent on them.
>
> Here is how I figure it. The Gulf is like a giant washing machine,
> swirling water around and around. Water is the universal solvent. Oil
> is made of hydrocarbons. Oil in the swirling Gulf waters is breaking
> down those hydrocarbons and rebuilding them The Gulf is saltwater,
> meaning there are various salts in the water. These salts are
> combining with the oil hydrocarbons, creating a soup of aromatics and
> carcinogenic compounds. Teh number of newly created compounds is
> endless with the results being not healthy.
This is wrong on so many levels it's difficult to know where to start.
Lets just say that the salts in cold seawater will not react with crude
oil under any conditions likely to be seen in the Gulf. The oil is more of
a physical problem, than chemical.
-------
bub
<robbie....@spin.net.au> wrote:
>This is wrong on so many levels it's difficult to know where to start.
>Lets just say that the salts in cold seawater will not react with crude
>oil under any conditions likely to be seen in the Gulf. The oil is more of
>a physical problem, than chemical.
>
"Twice an Exxon Valdez spill worth of oil seeps into the Gulf of
Mexico every year."
"Oil that finds its way to the surface from natural seeps gets broken
down by bacteria and ends up as carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. So
knowing the amount of fossil fuel that turns to carbon dioxide
naturally is important for understanding how much humans may be
changing the climate by burning oil and gas."
Irish Mike
After hurricane Katrina 62% of Americans disapproved of President Bush's
handling of the situation. The latest poll shows that now 69% of
Americans disapprove of Obama's handling of the oil spill. Looks like
Obama is going to need a bigger teleprompter.
Irish Mike
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other
people's money."
______________________________________________________________________�
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:humalp$8me$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> For over ten years, I have been watching in amazement because we *could*
> have already completely walked away from oil a long time ago. But just to
> satisfy a status quo and keep money flowing along the same lines it always
> has, we have failed to do this. Solar, solar, solar. Stop burning things
> or say goodbye to the planet we knew. It's so simple.
>
It's not even close in price yet.
YES it's the ultimate solution, and YES the technology is improving.
The key to long term solutions is an all electric economy, run largely by
solar, hydro, and geothermal
James L. Hankins
"mo_charles" <harry...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aph2e7...@recgroups.com...
> there isn't a businessman or manager within miles of this white house.
> more like: obama's herded his lawyers to concoct, deflect, lie, and
> confuse.
What exactly would you have him do about the oil leak?
mo_charles
> > more like: obama's herded his lawyers to concoct, deflect, lie, and
> > confuse.
>
> What exactly would you have him do about the oil leak?
all he's good at: give a speech.
mo_charles
________________________________________________________________________
Dave the Clueless
> For over ten years, I have been watching in amazement because we *could*
> have already completely walked away from oil a long time ago. But just to
> satisfy a status quo and keep money flowing along the same lines it always
> has, we have failed to do this. Solar, solar, solar. Stop burning things or
> say goodbye to the planet we knew. It's so simple.
>
> tvp
Simple, yes. True, no. Solar is inefficient. It is not portable. It is not
reliable (look up once in a while... clouds!!!). Solar won't power your
house, even if you convert your whole roof to solar panels. Solar won't
power your car, even if you cover it in solar panels. Solar doesn't work
at night, so you're gonna need some huge, toxic, expensive,
environmentally unfriendly batteries if you want to watch TV after dark. I
could go on but you'll never get the point so why bother.
---�
Raider Fan
Yeah, I'm looking forward to later this summer when the first hurricane
comes through the Gulf. That should be a real treat.
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
_____________________________________________________________________�
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
x
news:g105e7x...@recgroups.com:
> Yeah, I'm looking forward to later this summer when the first
> hurricane comes through the Gulf. That should be a real treat.
Do hurricanes go faster when someone greases the skids?
joeturn
I dissagree here there is a chemical release into the air from the
toxins with-in the crude oil!
Before oil can be sold the toxins have to be filtered out(refined)
this in not being done by the dillution process of the Gulfs salt
water!
However the dillution process does release the toxins from the crude
to be carried of by the wind and currents!
The pod of Dalphins that just swam through a pocket of crude was
instantly killed. All mamals for prey imediately to crude oil
poinsoning!
That sounds like more of a chemical problem to me it is also airborn
the trade winds will poison a lot of mamals(humans) before the public
becomes aware of it!!
However the main goal is to drive the price of oil way up so mega
millons can be made before non-combustible engines are released to the
public to replace the dinosaur eaters!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Alim Nassor
Also solar and wind both require redundant fossil fuel generation.
Picture a new development of houses, say 2000 houses with the
associated retail, commercial etc. You are going to power it all with
solar. Can't be done, without also having the same amount of fossil
fuel generating capacity as backup for when the sun doesn't shine.
Solar will never be a major player until some form of mega battery or
capacitive type storage can be developed. I'm not sure it can be.
joeturn
> "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:g105e7x...@recgroups.com:
>
> > Yeah, I'm looking forward to later this summer when the first
> > hurricane comes through the Gulf. That should be a real treat.
>
> Do hurricanes go faster when someone greases the skids?
You know very well hurricanes are being enhanced and steered by HAARP!
Their first sucessful test was to steer Hurricne Erin away from New
York City so their airplanes would not be grounded as they were needed
to pull off the biggest American Hoax of all time even bigger than the
"Man walking on the moon" hoax, during Appollo Zero.
joeturn
>
> - Show quoted text -
Soo sorry Nikola Tesla discovered free energy that was not dependant
on fossil fuel!
This technology was silenced by the Governments because there was lots
of money to be made off oil production and combustible engines!
Tesla made the flying saucer that worked off the magnetic field the
Earth and it has no combustible engine at all! Simple magnetic
reaction! Carr got imprissoned for his continued testing of Tesla's
Flying Machine!
This same magnetic reaction using the Earths magnetic field can
produce mega watts for free!
joeturn
FL Turbo
I've been wondering for a while now if there is a connection between
HAARP and this big blowout in the Gulf.
There has been a complete silence on that connection.
Not a word in the media, including the internet.
Have you heard anything from your sources?
Alim Nassor
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:11:50 -0700 (PDT), joeturn
>
Have you no shame? LOL
joeturn
>
Not a word even though Teslas scalar weapons could have caused the
blow up,I'm leaning toward the Russian subs while exploiting the Gulf
for places to drill for oil or so their story goes!
You can bet your ass it was intentional though, maybe even to not
allow the Russians drilling rights in the Gulf!? When Palin said
"Drill Baby Drill" this set into motion a counter attack by your
controling global Illuminati/Masonic Government!
FL Turbo
<joetu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jun 9, 11:37�pm, FL Turbo <noem...@notime.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:11:50 -0700 (PDT), joeturn
>>
>> <joeturn2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 9, 1:57�pm, x <a...@b.c> wrote:
>> >> "Raider Fan" <raidersgotscrew...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:g105e7x...@recgroups.com:
>>
>> >> > Yeah, I'm looking forward to later this summer when the first
>> >> > hurricane comes through the Gulf. �That should be a real treat.
>>
>> >> Do hurricanes go faster when someone greases the skids?
>>
>> >You know very well hurricanes are being enhanced and steered by HAARP!
>>
>> >Their first sucessful test was to steer Hurricne Erin away from New
>> >York City so their airplanes would not be grounded as they were needed
>> >to pull off the biggest American Hoax of all time even bigger than the
>> >"Man walking on the moon" hoax, during Appollo Zero.
>>
>> I've been wondering for a while now if there is a connection between
>> HAARP and this big blowout in the Gulf.
>>
>> There has been a complete silence on that connection.
>> Not a word in the media, including the internet.
>>
>> Have you heard anything from your sources?
>
>Not a word even though Teslas scalar weapons could have caused the
>blow up,I'm leaning toward the Russian subs while exploiting the Gulf
>for places to drill for oil or so their story goes!
>
What this did is to stop all development of oil wells in the Gulf.
By the USA, of course.
This leaves the Russians wide open to declare it International waters
outside the 12 mile limit.
Then they can come in and get all the oil.
>You can bet your ass it was intentional though, maybe even to not
>allow the Russians drilling rights in the Gulf!? When Palin said
>"Drill Baby Drill" this set into motion a counter attack by your
>controling global Illuminati/Masonic Government!
Ayup.
Tricking us into stopping oil production on our own territory leaves
the path wide open for a Global Government to take over.
RGP Loner
Russia already is in the gulf of mexico NOW drilling wells. What is wrong
with you .. .Boogy Man not scarey enough for ya ?
> Then they can come in and get all the oil.
>
> >You can bet your ass it was intentional though, maybe even to not
> >allow the Russians drilling rights in the Gulf!? When Palin said
> >"Drill Baby Drill" this set into motion a counter attack by your
> >controling global Illuminati/Masonic Government!
>
> Ayup.
> Tricking us into stopping oil production on our own territory leaves
> the path wide open for a Global Government to take over.
By the way ...Which one is Pink?
" The Final Cut "
" The Gunners Dream. :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97LL7WuXFk8
" the post war Dream "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9ysArxCdk
" Two Suns in the Sunset"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJHz6Przdw
" Not now John "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpL6EWpM6oo&feature=PlayList&p=74D5CE914B1ABD7F&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=43
" the fletcher memorial "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dpyjvo3XWk&feature=PlayList&p=74D5CE914B1ABD7F&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=37
" One of the Few "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9bjpAChF8
A place to stay, enough to eat, somewhere old Heroes shuffle safely down
the street, where you can speak out loud about your doubts and fears: and
what's more; no one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue,
Kicking in your door.
You can relax, on both sides of the tracks, and maniacs don't blow holes
in bandsmen by remote control.
And everyone has recourse to the law.
And no one kills the children anymore.
FL Turbo
I did not know that.
Well, okay.
Now they get it all.
I guess we can stop whining about buying oil from the Saudis.
Now we can be buying it from the Russkies.
I wonder how long it will be before we see Obama bowing to Putin, or
whoever.
RGP Loner
We get only 10% from Saudi,, the same percentage we get from mexico,
canada and Hugo Chaves land . We don't even use the oil in Alaska. we
export it .
Alaskan Oil Exports 1996 to 2004
Destination Amount (in million barrels)
South Korea
46.15
Japan
24.51
China 16.52
Taiwan 8.31
Total Exports 95.49
Total Alaskan Production 1996 to 2004
3,549 million barrels
" The Final Cut "
_______________________________________________________________________
RGP Loner
OOOPS my bad, We keep ALL of the Alaskan oil and don't export ANY since
2004.
" The Final Cut "
_____________________________________________________________________
Travel A
Mo_Charles wrote:
there isn't a businessman or manager within miles of this white house.
more like: obama's herded his lawyers to concoct, deflect, lie, and
confuse.
Hankins carped:
What exactly would you have him do about the oil leak?
I wrote:
Uh, pretend that he cares?
johnny_t
There are tons of battery solutions that dont require the storing of
electricity. Compressed air, water towers are two that come quickly to
mind and are used in Washington State.
There is a change in the mix, and nuclear and wind need to be there too.
But there will need to be changes.
johnny_t
> Also solar and wind both require redundant fossil fuel generation.
> Picture a new development of houses, say 2000 houses with the
> associated retail, commercial etc. You are going to power it all with
> solar. Can't be done, without also having the same amount of fossil
> fuel generating capacity as backup for when the sun doesn't shine.
> Solar will never be a major player until some form of mega battery or
> capacitive type storage can be developed. I'm not sure it can be.
Kinetic battery. Like winding up a weight. Moving water uphill,
compressing air. There are a bunch of different kinds. When dealing
with exactly your type of scenario, kinetic batteries work well.
johnny_t
No the really fun part is when it is raining oil. Even more fun, if it
is raining oil and it is flammable. Even more fun, it catches on fire!
--
If it doesn't fit on a bumper
sticker, Republicans can't un
Clave in RGP
Alim Nassor
> On Jun 11 2010 4:29 PM, FL Turbo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:24:49 -0700, "RGP Loner"
> > <aaaa...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> > >On Jun 11 2010 3:43 PM, FL Turbo wrote:
>
> > >> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:45:12 -0700 (PDT), joeturn
So in your world 95 million barrels out of 3.54 billion barrels means
we dont use any Alaskan oil? Did you and Beldin study math together?
>
Alim Nassor
> On Jun 11 2010 5:07 PM, RGP Loner wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 11 2010 4:29 PM, FL Turbo wrote:
>
> > > On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:24:49 -0700, "RGP Loner"
> > > <aaaa...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > >On Jun 11 2010 3:43 PM, FL Turbo wrote:
>
> > > >> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:45:12 -0700 (PDT), joeturn
>
> > > >" the fletcher memorial "
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dpyjvo3XWk&feature=PlayList&p=74D5CE9...
>
> > > >" One of the Few "
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9bjpAChF8
>
> > > >A place to stay, enough to eat, somewhere old Heroes shuffle safely down
> > > >the street, where you can speak out loud about your doubts and fears: and
> > > >what's more; no one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue,
> > > > Kicking in your door.
>
> > > >You can relax, on both sides of the tracks, and maniacs don't blow holes
> > > >in bandsmen by remote control.
>
> > > >And everyone has recourse to the law.
> > > >And no one kills the children anymore.
>
> > By the way ...Which one is Pink?
>
> > " The Final Cut "
>
> > " The Gunners Dream. :
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97LL7WuXFk8
>
> > " the post war Dream "
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9ysArxCdk
>
> > " Two Suns in the Sunset"
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJHz6Przdw
>
> > " Not now John "
>
>
> > " the fletcher memorial "
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dpyjvo3XWk&feature=PlayList&p=74D5CE9...
>
>
>
> > " One of the Few "
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9bjpAChF8
>
> > A place to stay, enough to eat, somewhere old Heroes shuffle safely down
> > the street, where you can speak out loud about your doubts and fears: and
> > what's more; no one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue,
> > Kicking in your door.
>
> > You can relax, on both sides of the tracks, and maniacs don't blow holes
> > in bandsmen by remote control.
>
> > And everyone has recourse to the law.
> > And no one kills the children anymore.
>
> By the way ...Which one is Pink?
>
> " The Final Cut "
>
> " The Gunners Dream. :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97LL7WuXFk8
>
> " the post war Dream "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9ysArxCdk
>
> " Two Suns in the Sunset"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJHz6Przdw
>
>
> " the fletcher memorial "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dpyjvo3XWk&feature=PlayList&p=74D5CE9...
>
> " One of the Few "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9bjpAChF8
>
> A place to stay, enough to eat, somewhere old Heroes shuffle safely down
> the street, where you can speak out loud about your doubts and fears: and
> what's more; no one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue,
> Kicking in your door.
>
> You can relax, on both sides of the tracks, and maniacs don't blow holes
> in bandsmen by remote control.
>
> And everyone has recourse to the law.
> And no one kills the children anymore.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oops, ok, but your math still sucks.
Alim Nassor
Yeah, that's why they are in use all over the world powering thousands
of homes and businesses. Oh, wait......
johnny_t
Oh, wait...
Kinetic batteries are in use at almost all hydroelectric dams, in one
form or another. Often electrical generation has to happen at times or
amounts where they are not being used. This isn't true for steam
generation facilities (coal, natural gas, oil, diesel or nuclear), where
you literally throttle product on need.
But hydroelectric, solar, and wind can and do use kinetic batteries to
store energy for use at high demand/low creation times. In Washington,
we know this, cuz we get to go on all the Dam Tours and stuff...
Happens all over the world powering thousands of homes and businesses...
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://www.mpoweruk.com/alternatives.htm
The flywheel provides power during period between the loss of utility
supplied power and either the return of utility power or the start of
a sufficient back-up power system (i.e., diesel generator). Flywheels
can discharge at 100 kilowatts (kW) for 15 seconds and recharge
immediately at the same rate, providing 1-30 seconds of ride-through
time. Back-up generators are typically online within 5-20 seconds.
So they can provide power for 1 to 30 seconds. Not much use as an
actual power source.
johnny_t
They usually don't use flywheels. Often it is pumped water. A lot of
it. The pumps use electricity one way, generate electricity another way.
Flywheels are used for reasonably short term usuage, like at hospitals.
They provide energy for a very short period of time, while other systems
come back online. This is for short term use for facilities that are
too large to use batteries as backups.
The nice thing about flywheels, is that they take very little energy to
keep spinning, and so aren't the continual drain and deterioration of
conventional battery systems. And they can be made pretty big.
For very small usage, you can get battery backed up supplies. But it is
for very short term use.
There are newer technologies...
For Instance...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage
But this is what is more commonly used with hydroelectric. Because
there is a lot of water nearby.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
The term kinetic battery is to describe a device that is powered by
electricity, the electrical energy then gets converted to potential
energy using some or another method that can store a lot. And then the
potential energy is released to create electricity.
This is done in various different ways.
Right now, the way that solar and wind is integrated with the grid, is
that it provides extra energy during the daytime, when it is used, with
excess supply provided by regular sources. This provides a smoother and
more reactive grid.
During the evening, coincidently enough, power requirements actually go
down. And right now they go down more than is lost by Solar no longer
creating electricity. This is all a good thing.
This will change, and one of the ways that this will change is with
creating enough solar power that it can store energy off in the day and
use it at night. These kinds of kinetic systems can work for that, as
they are the right size for this level of generation.
For smaller needs, like a single home, conventional electrical batteries
would probably suffice, however, there have been solutions with both
compressed air, and watertanking that work for very small needs, and
both are cheaper run and maintain, than conventional batteries. However
they tend to be MUCH bigger and more expensive to install, especially to
retrofit to a house.
But I really don't believe that we are moving to an off the grid system.
We are largely going to be a grid system, if anything with extra
production from small generation.
The really nasty thing, is that people are today getting a free ride
from taxpayers and rate payers with people that "sell" back energy to
the grid.
These little producers cannot be accurately accounted for, at that
level, and the high liklihood is all the energy that we pay for in these
systems are just being sent to ground as not being useful. So they
think they are doing good, but the rate payers are just paying for their
solar panels.
Once the population of these things gets large enough and predictable
enough, the grids will actually start to depend on them for a bit, and
will likely use some percentage of their generation. But right now,
most assuredly it is being grounded, or you're having brownouts. I am
sure that it is being grounded.
Which is why it would be nice to have in home energy storage of
somesort, then it would actually be used, and taxpayers wouldn't be
paying for something that it is not getting.
johnny_t
and there is even a mention about solar and wind energy in there if you
read closely.
johnny_t
> I found the right topic. This explains about grid size energy storage,
> and there is even a mention about solar and wind energy in there if you
> read closely.
>
>
>
FL Turbo
wrote:
Probably, Washington State is lucky that they have a good source for
hydroelectric power.
The great majority of the country doesn't have that luxury.
In areas where solar power does make some sense, like deserts with a
lot of sunshine, water is in short supply.
I have no feel for the size of facilities needed to store compressed
air.
My SWAG is storing compressed air would take one hell of a lot of
infrastructure to store it.
Windmills are usually sited out in the middle of nowhere.
It's the same problem as with solar.
Leaving practical bottlenecks like that aside, there is no way that
both solar and wind power put together can supply even more than a
small fraction of the energy that we need to maintain the level of
energy we need to keep in operation.
Besides solar and windmill power, I can't think of any "alternative
energy sources" out there.
Most people have come to the understanding that ethanol takes more
energy to produce than it can deliver.
The production of ethanol takes a heat source.
Do they use their own product for the heat?
Nooo.
They burn natural gas to produce their product (ethanol).
It would make more sense to take the damn corn and burn it in a power
plant to make electricity than to use it to manufacture ethanol.
>There is a change in the mix, and nuclear and wind need to be there too.
>
>But there will need to be changes.
Nuclear is all I can think of that makes any sense, given the level of
technology at the present time.
FL Turbo
If generators are used to provide power for the Life Safety code, such
as exit and egress lighting, they are required to come online in 10
seconds or less.
>So they can provide power for 1 to 30 seconds. Not much use as an
>actual power source.
I vaguely remember reading about some company in India (I think), that
announced plans to make a car powered by compressed air.
I haven't read anything about that lately.
I'm starting to wonder if the original story was first published in
the Onion.
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Would you consider these devices wasteful since it takes more energy
to pump the water or compress the air than you can get back by
discharging it?
Alim Nassor
I'll read it today when I have more time, about to head to the salt
mine.
johnny_t
> I vaguely remember reading about some company in India (I think), that
> announced plans to make a car powered by compressed air.
> I haven't read anything about that lately.
>
> I'm starting to wonder if the original story was first published in
> the Onion.
The tata. However, it looks like it was oversold. The engine gets so
cold that it literally freezes. And more importantly, there is simply
not enough "energy" stored into the compressed air bottles in the car to
provide any sort of range at all. The second part is simply a math problem.
There are some usages for the technology that look good, unfortunately
driving a car isn't one of them. Warehouse transportation looks good
for this.
johnny_t
All of these types of systems are "wasteful". However, implementations
of the pumping system have shown 99% energy recovery. Pretty damn good.
But generally in the 6-7% range.
One final one to look at, is the use of molten salt for solar plants.
The advantage of molten salt is that the heat stored in it can be kept
up to a week. This allows the creation of solar sites that can generate
energy and use it for electrical creation during the night.
johnny_t
I agree, nuclear makes a lot of sense. It can also be part of the
hydrogen solution. There is something to be said in converting to
hydrogen close to the nuclear plant, and then pumping or driving it to
the system like gasoline.
Also for solar plants where there isn't a lot of water, (though water is
always a required part, because most heat generation facilities are
about making steam at some point. Gas, Nuclear, and Solar).
A big solution is using molten salt. This allows for reasonably long
term storage of solar energy while the sun isn't shining, and allow for
more balanced energy delivery compared to the harsh cycles of the sun.
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Alim Nassor" <alimn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:daeb75fe-4f18-4c3a...@g19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
http://www.mpoweruk.com/alternatives.htm
***
Alim the shithead, ladies and gentlemen.
He SHOULD have looked for things like THIS
Pumped storage hydroelectricity is a type of hydroelectric power generation
used by some power plants for load balancing. The method stores energy in
the form of water, pumped from a lower elevation reservoir to a higher
elevation. Low-cost off-peak electric power is used to run the pumps. During
periods of high electrical demand, the stored water is released through
turbines. Although the losses of the pumping process makes the plant a net
consumer of energy overall, the system increases revenue by selling more
electricity during periods of peak demand, when electricity prices are
highest. Pumped storage is the largest-capacity form of grid energy storage
now available.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped_storage
Beldin the Sorcerer
"FL Turbo" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message
news:8d6616t57ttlkoiii...@4ax.com...
Here's a whole Wikipedia article for you
]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car
They aren't efficient however
Jerry Sturdivant
"johnny_t" <nobo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4c12ea71$0$8890$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> On 6/11/10 6:41 PM, Alim Nassor wrote:
> Kinetic batteries are in use at almost all hydroelectric dams, in one form
> or another. Often electrical generation has to happen at times or amounts
> where they are not being used. This isn't true for steam generation
> facilities (coal, natural gas, oil, diesel or nuclear), where you
> literally throttle product on need. But hydroelectric, solar, and wind can
> and do use kinetic batteries to store energy for use at high
> demand/low creation times.
I'm going to have to call Bullshit here. Not only was I a powerhouse
operator for a couple of different companies (including the U.S. Army Corps
of Engineers) but a Generation Dispatcher for Bonneville Power
Administration in Washington State.
Hydroelectric, steam and nuclear powerhouses have banks of batteries, but
they are for a permanent and dependable DC source of power to run the plant,
not for distribution.
> In Washington, we know this, cuz we get to go on all the Dam Tours and
> stuff...
They gave you bad information or you misinterpreted it.
>> Would you consider these devices wasteful since it takes more energy
>> to pump the water or compress the air than you can get back by
>> discharging it?
> All of these types of systems are "wasteful". However, implementations of
> the pumping system have shown 99% energy recovery.
Not true either. In fact, over 10% is lost, just in transformers. The only
hydroelectric pump storage system that I know of was being considered in
California. It was in Black Star Canyon. (Do a search). This project was for
off-peak storage, mostly of nuclear generation because of the economics of
running nuke plants at full capacity.
Jerry 'n Vegas
misanthropic whackjob
> On Jun 9, 11:04 pm, Alim Nassor <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 9, 1:20 pm, "Dave the Clueless" <fract...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 8 2010 5:54 PM, Tad Perry wrote:
> >
> > > > For over ten years, I have been watching in amazement because we
*could*
> > > > have already completely walked away from oil a long time ago. But just
to
> > > > satisfy a status quo and keep money flowing along the same lines it
always
> > > > has, we have failed to do this. Solar, solar, solar. Stop burning
things or
> > > > say goodbye to the planet we knew. It's so simple.
> >
> > > > tvp
> >
> > > Simple, yes. True, no. Solar is inefficient. It is not portable. It is
not
> > > reliable (look up once in a while... clouds!!!). Solar won't power your
> > > house, even if you convert your whole roof to solar panels. Solar won't
> > > power your car, even if you cover it in solar panels. Solar doesn't work
> > > at night, so you're gonna need some huge, toxic, expensive,
> > > environmentally unfriendly batteries if you want to watch TV after
dark.. I
> > > could go on but you'll never get the point so why bother.
> >
> Also solar and wind both require redundant fossil fuel generation.
> > Picture a new development of houses, say 2000 houses with the
> > associated retail, commercial etc. You are going to power it all with
> > solar. Can't be done, without also having the same amount of fossil
> > fuel generating capacity as backup for when the sun doesn't shine.
> > Solar will never be a major player until some form of mega battery or
> > capacitive type storage can be developed. I'm not sure it can be.- Hide
quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Soo sorry Nikola Tesla discovered free energy that was not dependant
> on fossil fuel!
>
> This technology was silenced by the Governments because there was lots
> of money to be made off oil production and combustible engines!
This is true. We can thank Edison (the man) for the predicament we are
now in.
>
> Tesla made the flying saucer that worked off the magnetic field the
> Earth and it has no combustible engine at all! Simple magnetic
> reaction! Carr got imprissoned for his continued testing of Tesla's
> Flying Machine!
>
> This same magnetic reaction using the Earths magnetic field can
> produce mega watts for free!
_______________________________________________________________________
johnny_t
Dude, do a search or read any of the postings, like this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
Done all over the world, from China to Ireland, and even Grand Couleed
Dam here in Washington.
I am totally sorry that your doctorates in Powerhouse operations didn't
include any of this...
And no I didn't get bad information.
Try again.
johnny_t
And you can use this, not just to balance out the dam's production, but
also the grid as a whole. The pumped storage doesn't have to be near
the electrical creator, or even have it store the electricity. You can
use the solar during the daytime, pump some other plant during the day,
at at night use the pumped storage as electricity.
Alim Nassor
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey asswipe. Johnny and I are having a perfectly civil exchange about
alternative energy. No need for your immature idiotic input here.
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
Hey shithead :
You are being your typical moronic self, not understanding basic concepts
and bullshitting.
He's talking about power storage to balance the grid when the sun doesn't
shine as well or the wind doesan't blow.
You invite a good swift kick in the balls with this comment, idiot boy :
joeturn
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Edison was just a peon the Illuminati sicked JP MORGAN on him to ruin
our free energy!
http://tomorrowtechtoday.com/2008/10/21/nikola-tesla-forgotten-genius/
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Alim Nassor
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hey asswipe. Johnny and I are having a perfectly civil exchange about
> alternative energy. No need for your immature idiotic input here.
> ***
> Hey shithead :
> You are being your typical moronic self, not understanding basic concepts
> and bullshitting.
>
> He's talking about power storage to balance the grid when the sun doesn't
> shine as well or the wind doesan't blow.
>
> You invite a good swift kick in the balls with this comment, idiot boy :
>
>
>
> > > > Yeah, that's why they are in use all over the world powering thousands
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I see you convienently ignored this line from your cite, which I
pointed out without ever reading it.
"Although the losses of the pumping process makes the plant a net
consumer of energy overall...."
I'd say that was pretty wasteful. Now STFU and STFD and let the
adults talk.
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
Shithead (and you are one)
It's a STORAGE device, you fucking moron.
Since the key to solar and wind is being able to STORE it, so you can
maximize production, high storage capacity is key, even if it's less than
efficient.
You ARE hopelessly moronic.
ALL batteries are inefficient.
Some are more efficient than others. Storing HUGE amounts of power tend to
be inefficient, but it's still significantly MORE efficient than simply not
producing it because it can't be used then.
***
"Although the losses of the pumping process makes the plant a net
consumer of energy overall...."
I'd say that was pretty wasteful.
***
Which proves you're an imbecile.
A factory producing batteries is a net consumer of energy overall.
Fuck, a rechargeable battery is a net consumer of energy.
Now shut up, idiot *
*( Xaq Morphy)
joeturn
http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/Mike-Connell-Paul-Wellsto-by-E-Nelson-090513-568.html
Heres why Thomas Henry Morey was killed he continued with Tesla's
holiwitzer without government approval and amplified it!
Jerry Sturdivant
"johnny_t" <nobo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4c143853$0$16222$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
It did, "Dude," Nothing in my statement about pump storage was incorrect.
> And no I didn't get bad information.
>
> Try again.
Yea, you did. My above statements are factual and correct. None of the
powerhouses use batteries for power grid distribution. So your little
statement:
" ...we know this, cuz we get to go on all the Dam Tours and stuff..."
Shows you weren't paying attention. Like I said, do a search.
Jerry 'n Vegas
Jerry Sturdivant
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <Beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hv1m09$1tt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Beldim is correct. Hence the name, Pump Storage.
> Since the key to solar and wind is being able to STORE it, so you can
> maximize production, high storage capacity is key, even if it's less than
> efficient.
This part is not correct Solar and wind is considered Base Load generation.
Nuke and 'steam' generation is the "extra" power, to be use for, 'off peak.'
> You ARE hopelessly moronic.
>
> ALL batteries are inefficient.
And not used as distributed load.
> Some are more efficient than others. Storing HUGE amounts of power tend to
> be inefficient, but it's still significantly MORE efficient than simply
> not producing it because it can't be used then.
Correct. On the west coast, the most popular Peak Generation is jet engines
generators. Take up little room; noisy as hell; and very inefficient. (I
remember them being about 50 cents a KWH). We usually used the 'Jet Peakers'
as a last resort. Usually hot summer afternoons.
> ***
> "Although the losses of the pumping process makes the plant a net
> consumer of energy overall...."
>
> I'd say that was pretty wasteful.
But cheaper than building a whole new generation plant, just for peak hour
use.
Jerry 'n Vegas
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Jerry Sturdivant" <jer...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:yM4Rn.97415$304....@newsfe12.iad...
]\But then, we know you can't fucking read.
The key to Solar and Wind REPLACING oil for PRIMARY generator capability is
the ability to generate it at will and STORE it for later release.
Now I realize you need to actually THINK to see that's what I'm saying
there.
>
Alim Nassor
wrote:
> "Jerry Sturdivant" <jerr...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:yM4Rn.97415$304....@newsfe12.iad...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Beldin the Sorcerer" <Beldin...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:hv1m09$1tt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
Let me know when you can command the sun to shine and the wind to blow
ok?
>
> Now I realize you need to actually THINK to see that's what I'm saying
> there.
>
>
>
Raider Fan
> On 6/9/10 10:57 AM, x wrote:
> > "Raider Fan"<raidersgo...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > news:g105e7x...@recgroups.com:
> >
> >> Yeah, I'm looking forward to later this summer when the first
> >> hurricane comes through the Gulf. That should be a real treat.
> >
> > Do hurricanes go faster when someone greases the skids?
>
> No the really fun part is when it is raining oil. Even more fun, if it
> is raining oil and it is flammable. Even more fun, it catches on fire!
Yeah, the raining oil was what I was mentioning. I highly doubt it would
be flammable though. It doesn't need to be. The damages to house and car
paint will be the biggest insurance loss of all time.
"This has got to be some sports-related crap, that's all Raiderfan gives a
fuck about." -- Paul Popinjay 2/27/09
________________________________________________________________________
johnny_t
> Shows you weren't paying attention. Like I said, do a search.
1/10. Pretty good if I thought you were that stupid.
johnny_t
> Yeah, the raining oil was what I was mentioning. I highly doubt it would
> be flammable though. It doesn't need to be. The damages to house and car
> paint will be the biggest insurance loss of all time.
This will be good. I agree with it being unlikely, however, a good
percentage of the oil is "gas" as opposed to simply the tarry red stuff.
A good chunk of this could be sweeped up in a hurricane.
Unlikely... But fun nonetheless.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <Beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hv2opb$hg1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
You're still an insufferable idiot. It was my job. Don't fuck with
professionals; you only continue to embarrass yourself.
Jerry 'n Vegas
johnny_t
This whole conversation started as a discussion about Grid Solar not
taking off until there is a new battery/capacitor solution.
(Actually he was pointing out a 2k house problem, which is depending on
where you are a substation problem. But I haven't really seen anything
based on that size. Only grid size, and off grid local).
I pointed out, that there are grid non-electrical storage solutions that
are in place (Kinetic batteries, as opposed to electrical batteries.
Electrical batteries are used as small parts of the overall solution in
most places, and not used for grid smoothing. But usually as transition
from grid to local (generator) production.
The kinetic batteries are not used for the kind of thing that would be
used with a hydroelectric dam. Namely for alternate hour use. But this
doesn't mean that they cannot be used this way.
As to the jet engine smoothing, yes, especially on the East Coast. Here
in the PNW hydropower can generally be scaled up fast enough to provide
that kind of smoothing, though I believe we used to have one of those
types of plants as ascribed, but it was taken down in Centralia for
being a high carbon site. I know, I know...
Fortunately, we have a lot of Natural gas for now. And that can be used
for that purpose, while we can use Solar and Wind as core energy
contributors that along with Nuclear, and electrically generated fuel
(hydrogen mainly), will dramatically replace Petro and Coal generation.
This will have the affect of dramatically curtailing peak oil, and last
us a long long time, while smart people figure out better/cheaper
solutions. Fusion?
Which I suspect will involve an eventual and huge transition over from a
near 100% grid solution, to a much larger percentage of local electrical
creation. It may not payoff everwhere, or be everywhere, but it will be
in a large part of the country. This will be used to further decrease
our need of petro as a lot of this energy will also be used for personal
transport.
This would be faster with magic batteries. I am not sure where they
come from it's not like there is a magic electrical physics we have all
ignored to this point, and manufacturing issues have to be largely
perfected at this point. But who knows, maybe there is at least a
doubling of scale possible. I had high hope for the Stanford batteries
but reality seems to have impeded on those.
It may simply be that this is made better on the transport side. But I
think we will run into a horsepower wall that is much lower on its
topside as compared to gasoline.
This would hopefully also dramatically extend diesel supplies, as few
things have the properties of diesel and the benefit they bring to
shipping technologies.
And ultimately to algae based fuels for airplanes. As that seems to
have the best promise for otherwise "limited" use.
Jerry Sturdivant
"johnny_t" <nobo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4c156295$0$18686$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Jerry...
>
> This whole conversation started as a discussion about Grid Solar not
> taking off until there is a new battery/capacitor solution.
Commercial, large scale "grid" solar energy is already a reality and has
nothing to do with batteries or capacitors. Solar, wind and much of hydro
and nuke generation are base loads. Base load means it runs, regardless of
system demand. Frequency (peak) and load control is mostly made up with
steam generation.
> (Actually he was pointing out a 2k house problem, which is depending on
> where you are a substation problem. But I haven't really seen anything
> based on that size. Only grid size, and off grid local).
>
> I pointed out, that there are grid non-electrical storage solutions that
> are in place (Kinetic batteries, as opposed to electrical batteries.
>
> Electrical batteries are used as small parts of the overall solution in
> most places, and not used for grid smoothing.
Where did you get the term, grid smoothing?
> But usually as transition from grid to local (generator) production.
>
> The kinetic batteries are not used for the kind of thing that would be
> used with a hydroelectric dam. Namely for alternate hour use.
This makes no sense.
> But this doesn't mean that they cannot be used this way.
>
> As to the jet engine smoothing,
Are you using the term, smoothing, for system peaking? VAR control? Line
loading control?
> yes, especially on the East Coast. Here in the PNW hydropower can
> generally be scaled up fast enough to provide that kind of smoothing,
I ran the "Pacific North West" hydro system. Bonneville Power was in charge
of time (frequency control; if that's what you're referring to as
"smoothing,") in the Northwest and Southern California Edison Company (who I
also worked for) was time control in the southwest portion of the western
grid (until California State took it over for the SW).
> though I believe we used to have one of those types of plants as ascribed,
> but it was taken down in Centralia for being a high carbon site. I know,
> I know...
Are you referring to jet peakers? High carbon site?
> Fortunately, we have a lot of Natural gas for now. And that can be used
> for that purpose, while we can use Solar and Wind as core energy
> contributors that along with Nuclear, and electrically generated fuel
> (hydrogen mainly), will dramatically replace Petro and Coal generation.
You have hydrogen generation now? System demand is normally predicated on
'cost loading,' with line loading being secondary. Hourly system contracts
were mostly taken over by ENRON, until it was found out they were cheating
on state line importing and exporting contracts. Then ENRON folded.
Individual power companies usually load according to cost per KWH. It's why
the cheap generation (solar, wind, etc) are base loaded. (On when able).
> This will have the affect of dramatically curtailing peak oil, and last us
> a long long time, while smart people figure out better/cheaper solutions.
> Fusion?
>
> Which I suspect will involve an eventual and huge transition over from a
> near 100% grid solution, to a much larger percentage of local electrical
> creation. It may not payoff everwhere, or be everywhere, but it will be
> in a large part of the country.
Except for minor, minimal, (mostly DC) interchanges, the main grids in the
country are not interconnected. It was attempted for transferring morning
and evening peak loads across time zones; but system conditions (mostly
instability from heavy line loading causing; inductive and capacitive
reactance [VARS]) prevents this.
> This will be used to further decrease our need of petro as a lot of this
> energy will also be used for personal transport.
>
> This would be faster with magic batteries. I am not sure where they come
> from it's not like there is a magic electrical physics we have all ignored
> to this point, and manufacturing issues have to be largely perfected at
> this point.
Magic batteries? Whatever type of batteries you use, they will require
charging from the system.
> But who knows, maybe there is at least a doubling of scale possible. I
> had high hope for the Stanford batteries but reality seems to have impeded
> on those.
>
> It may simply be that this is made better on the transport side. But I
> think we will run into a horsepower wall that is much lower on its topside
> as compared to gasoline.
>
> This would hopefully also dramatically extend diesel supplies, as few
> things have the properties of diesel and the benefit they bring to
> shipping technologies.
>
> And ultimately to algae based fuels for airplanes. As that seems to have
> the best promise for otherwise "limited" use.
>
"Grid smoothing?" "Alternate hour use?" "High carbon site?" "Core energy
contributors?" "100% grid solution?" "Doubling of scale?"
Where are you getting all this?
Jerry 'n Vegas
johnny_t
It would have been simpler to just add to the conversation, versus
simply trying to take me out.
But at anyrate. Thank you for contributing.
Beldin the Sorcerer
> ]\But then, we know you can't fucking read.
> The key to Solar and Wind REPLACING oil for PRIMARY generator capability
> is
> the ability to generate it at will and STORE it for later release.
Let me know when you can command the sun to shine and the wind to blow
ok?
You don't need to, shithead.
You just need to be able to store it when it does.
Beldin the Sorcerer
> > Wrong, Jerry.
>> ]\But then, we know you can't fucking read.
>
> You're still an insufferable idiot. It was my job. Don't fuck with
> professionals; you only continue to embarrass yourself.
It doesn't matter what your job was, fucknut.
You're too stupid to understand the concepts we're discussing
Alim Nassor
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Hmmm. So when you said "the abilty to generate it at will" while
referring to solar and wind power that wasn yet another example of you
always meaning what you say? Or not? What the fuck does "at will"
mean asswipe?
Alim Nassor
wrote:
> "Jerry Sturdivant" <jerr...@cox.net> wrote in message
From what I have read of Jerry's posts he has VASTLY more knowledge of
the subject than you do, oh commander of the sun and the wind.
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
As opposed to "As needed" you fantastically stupid idiot
You let the solar cells and the wind plants generate whenever THEY can, and
store the excess, then redistribute it later/
WOW, you're a fucknut.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <Beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hv6jhd$6m3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
You mean the one's you're obviously unable to discuss and my points you're
unable to argue? Sorry, kid, you lose again....
Jerry
Beldin the Sorcerer
You're too stupid to understand what needs to happen for solar and wind to
replace fossil fuel generated electricity.
Alim Nassor
ROFL. Prancer is rewriting the dictionary AGAIN!!!
From Websters Online:
"— at will : as one wishes : as or when it pleases or suits oneself"
But you being the totally ignorant asswipe you are, you didn't know
what "at will" means and now once again you will twist and dance to
try to rewrite the dictionary.
BAWAHAHAHA Prancer, we can add "at will" to the growing list of terms
you don't understand.
Beldin the Sorcerer
From Websters Online:
***
Yes, Alim the shithead
At WILL for the POWER plant, you fuckhead.
NOT as demanded by the consumer
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
ROFL. It still isnt "at will" you ignorant fat fuck. BWHAHAHAHA.
"At will" means whenever you want to, not whenever you are able to. I
think maybe some of your lard ass is crowding out what few brain cells
you still have left functioning.
Alim Nassor
wrote:
> "Jerry Sturdivant" <jerr...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:K2KRn.78653$HG1....@newsfe21.iad...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Beldin the Sorcerer" <Beldin...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:hv6jhd$6m3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >> "Jerry Sturdivant" <jerr...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>news:2cbRn.57921$h57....@newsfe22.iad...
> >>> > Wrong, Jerry.
> >>>> ]\But then, we know you can't fucking read.
>
> >>> You're still an insufferable idiot. It was my job. Don't fuck with
> >>> professionals; you only continue to embarrass yourself.
> >> Jerry, you're a shithead who can't read.
> >> It doesn't matter what your job was, fucknut.
> >> You're too stupid to understand the concepts we're discussing
>
> > You mean the one's you're obviously unable to discuss and my points you're
> > unable to argue? Sorry, kid, you lose again....
>
> No, shit for brains.
> You're too stupid to understand what needs to happen for solar and wind to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, Jerry doesn't understand that according to Beldin we are able to
command the sun to shine and the wind to blow. BWHAHAHAHA.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <Beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hv7t59$mj3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
And when you do argue, your replies reflect your stupidity. Look, kid,
you're stumbling around in my world; go play with some other idiots.
Jerry 'n Vegas
Jerry Sturdivant
"Alim Nassor" <alimn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:da760092-2c61-4978...@b35g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
This is just another case of BelDum getting in over his head in an area he
obviously know nothing about, and refusing to admit it. So he just gets in
deeper and deeper.......
Jerry 'n Vegas
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, aint if fun? ROFL.
Necron99
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think you guys should lay off, I mean, this is a bit like picking
fights with the kids on the Special Ed bus.
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, that was fun too. ROFL
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
And AGAIN, shithead, you show you can't put sentences in context
It IS, in the context of the discussion.
The fact that, as an ignorant redneck motherfucker you can't GRASP that
sucks
Beldin the Sorcerer
Jerry, this is another case of you being an idiot.
A common occurance, natch
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Necron99" <necr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec6ce967-3ad6-42b7...@k17g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
***
Well, sure, if they the retards
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
Yeah, you're the kind of idiot who'd be amused teasing someone with a birth
defect
Your brain damage is much more subtle
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
If he doesn't understand that storage and redistribution is the key to solar
and wind, he's an idiot.
You're demonstrably a moron, Alim. Jerry may have some understanding of
parts of this topic, but failing to recognize that NOT being limited to when
the sun shines and the wind blows is a fundamental need to replacing oil,
coal, and gas with them
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
Alim the shit for brains, ladies and gentlemen!
Showing ignorant redneck stupidity since, well, birth
Beldin the Sorcerer
You can't read, so you don't know what the fuck we're actually talking
about, so shove it up your kool-aid addled brain
Beldin the Sorcerer
On Jun 11, 7:07 pm, "RGP Loner" <aaaa...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> On Jun 11 2010 4:29 PM, FL Turbo wrote:
>
>
So in your world 95 million barrels out of 3.54 billion barrels means
we dont use any Alaskan oil? Did you and Beldin study math together?
>
Says the shithead who couldn't count the calories in a sandwich correctly
Alim Nassor
wrote:
> "Alim Nassor" <alimnas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Keep it up Prancer. You've been trying to redefine the dictionary for
years. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA "At will" means what it means, your context
doesn't change it. Why don't you just admit you messed up? "At
will" will never mean "when you can" or "when you are able"
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
FL Turbo
How many calories are there in a sandwich?
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
Alim,
The fact that you are too stupid to understand that words, and more
importantly idiomatic expressions, have meanings based on the context in
which they are used is, let's face it, fairly pitiful for you, and I'm
sorry.
You REALLY need a reading comprehension course, shithead
All context modifies words somewhat.
A shithead like you just can't grasp that.
Let's prove it : What does 'Wrench" mean?
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL Your lard ass is really overloading your brain now. Context
can't change an obviously wrong statement like "generate solar and
wind power at will" into something correct. Anymore that context can
change an obviously wrong statement like "the arctic circle may get
smaller" into a correct statement. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Go eat some more Twinkies lard ass. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
BTW, care to tell us what "-fold" means? After all EVERYONE except
you and your math teacher use it wrong. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The
list keeps getting longer Prancer.