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THE CASE OF SWEDEN
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Mossingen
Apr 13, 2020, 1:23:00 PM4/13/20
to
I'm not sure what to make of Sweden. According to the Prime Minister, his
government is simply following the advice of the country's health officials,
which is apparently to just advise citizens to act responsibly. There is no
lockdown and Swedes continue to live their normal lives for the most part.
Sweden has a population of 10 million. The death rates there from COVID-19
are higher than its Nordic neighbors (Denmark, Finland and Norway) which
have imposed strict lockdowns, but lower than the hardest hit European
countries.
Looks like some of it may have to do with large population countries vs.
smaller population countries, but it's an interesting situation that bears
study.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 1:39:18 PM4/13/20
to
Mossingen
Apr 13, 2020, 2:06:46 PM4/13/20
to
"Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
news:r72842$oam$1...@reader2.panix.com...
________________
That doesn't contribute much to the discussion.
news:r72842$oam$1...@reader2.panix.com...
That doesn't contribute much to the discussion.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 2:10:56 PM4/13/20
to
>Mossingen <jhan...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>I'm not sure what to make of Sweden.
>> ...
>https://covid19stats.global/country/muckle018.png
>
>>
>>I'm not sure what to make of Sweden.
>> ...
>https://covid19stats.global/country/muckle018.png
>
>That doesn't contribute much to the discussion.
>
[If you could learn to post using proper typographical
>
conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
that's too much to ask.]
|
| I've never written so many death certificates. I've never
| worked this many hours," says an exhausted Issa Yacoub, a
| doctor working in Sodersjukhuset, one of Stockholm's
| largest public hospitals.
|
| He and his colleagues are becoming increasingly overwhelmed
| with the number of patients passing through their doors.
| ...
| Primary schools, shops, restaurants and bars remain open
| and people are allowed to go out and exercise.
|
| But Sweden's cases are rising. The country of some 10
| million now has more than 10,000 cases and 887 deaths. Its
| total death toll is higher than that of all the other
| Nordic countries put together.
| ...
<https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html>
--bks
Mossingen
Apr 13, 2020, 2:37:28 PM4/13/20
to
"Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
news:r729vb$njt$1...@reader2.panix.com...
Discussions are conducted here in English. I addressed the fact that Sweden
has a higher death rate than its Nordic counterparts. You're not offering
anything that I didn't say in the original post.
The death rate in Sweden is higher than its Nordic counterparts, who have
small populations and strict lock-down measures, but lower than the large
European countries which similar lock-down measures.
Sweden has no lock-down measures, and its medical officials apparently
recommended basically no change in society, other than act like adults and
use common sense like avoiding large crowds and washing hands.
That seems to have worked better than the lock-down of large countries, but
not as good as lock-down in smaller countries. Do you not find that
interesting?
Dutch
Apr 13, 2020, 3:20:04 PM4/13/20
to
level playing field. That's not true in Europe or in the US states or
anywhere. Outbreaks happen when there is a cluster of infected people or
one infected person who spreads the disease. Sweden may have been lucky
that no infected people traveled there. Northern Italy was unlucky.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 3:26:49 PM4/13/20
to
>[If you could learn to post using proper typographical
>conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
>that's too much to ask.]
> ...
>conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
>that's too much to ask.]
>Discussions are conducted here in English.
> ...
That's not what typography means.
--bks
Mossingen
Apr 13, 2020, 3:44:33 PM4/13/20
to
"Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
news:r72edl$p7s$1...@reader2.panix.com...
Christ, man, you're like trying to have a conversation with Clave. Carry on
then. Maybe someone else will have some interesting insights on Sweden.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 3:53:17 PM4/13/20
to
Mossingen <jhan...@cox.net> wrote:
> ...
social distancing (do you think the Swedes don't
know what's going on elsewhere?). Because they
have shut down less, the infection and death rates
are higher than comparable countries.
Meanwhile, lets look at Vietnam:
Vietnam USA
C19 Deaths 0 23,000
C19 Cases 265 572,600
Population 95,000,000 327,000,000
Pop.Density 290/km^2 34/km^2
Vietnam listened to WHO and started testing/tracing/isolation
in mid-January. Fat Orange Fuck was playing golf and holding
indoor rallies.
--bks
> ...
>Christ, man, you're like trying to have a conversation with Clave. Carry on
>then. Maybe someone else will have some interesting insights on Sweden.
What insight do you want? They're doing voluntary
>then. Maybe someone else will have some interesting insights on Sweden.
social distancing (do you think the Swedes don't
know what's going on elsewhere?). Because they
have shut down less, the infection and death rates
are higher than comparable countries.
Meanwhile, lets look at Vietnam:
Vietnam USA
C19 Deaths 0 23,000
C19 Cases 265 572,600
Population 95,000,000 327,000,000
Pop.Density 290/km^2 34/km^2
Vietnam listened to WHO and started testing/tracing/isolation
in mid-January. Fat Orange Fuck was playing golf and holding
indoor rallies.
--bks
Mossingen
Apr 13, 2020, 4:33:29 PM4/13/20
to
"Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
news:r72fv9$qlc$1...@reader2.panix.com...
WHO and China were telling everyone that the Chinese Virus was not
communicable by human-to-human contact in mid-January.
Vietnam has a population that is highly structured and a society that is
well-equipped for uniform mobile action. They fall in line quickly and
without question. America is nothing like that culturally.
You are very flippant about Sweden, but the same applies to the U.S., yet
you don't phrase the pandemic in the U.S. that way, choosing instead to
prattle on with criticisms of Trump. Your thinking has been damaged.
BillB
Apr 13, 2020, 4:58:57 PM4/13/20
to
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 1:33:29 PM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:
> WHO and China were telling everyone that the Chinese Virus was not
> communicable by human-to-human contact in mid-January.
You just make it up as you go along, don't you? Much like Trump.
> WHO and China were telling everyone that the Chinese Virus was not
> communicable by human-to-human contact in mid-January.
Here is an excerpt from a WHO Emergency Preparedness and Response alert dated January 5, 2020:
"Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of influenza and severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
Further, there is no such thing as the "Chinese Virus," except maybe on Fox News. You sound like a grade school dropout (or an Oklahoman).
The only acceptable colloquial term is "Trumpvirus," and that's only in relation to the virus as it exists in North America. Trump oversaw the rapid explosion of the disease from 5 cases to over half a million while he hid in denial and talked utter bullshit with his thumb up his ass.
> You are very flippant about Sweden
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 5:07:33 PM4/13/20
to
> ...
No. There was one wrong report from China to that effect in
mid-January. Yes WHO retweeted that China said there was
one such report, just like there are reports now that
hydroxychloroquine cures COVID-19 (spoiler: it does not).
But the full timeline till mid-January looks something like this:
31 December: Chinese notify WHO
1 January..: WHO forms incident management team
4 January..: WHO issues social media alert
5 January..: WHO publishes report
10 January.: WHO issues technical guidance to all countries
on how to detect, test and manage cases.
12 January.: Genetic sequence of virus completed and made
public by China via WHO.
14 January.: WHO press briefing on transmissibility of virus
Vietnam, Taiwan and South Korea were paying attention. Fat
Orange Fuck was busy playing golf and *holding indoor rallies*.
--bks
>Meanwhile, lets look at Vietnam:
>
> Vietnam USA
>
>C19 Deaths 0 23,000
>C19 Cases 265 572,600
>Population 95,000,000 327,000,000
>Pop.Density 290/km^2 34/km^2
> ...
>
> Vietnam USA
>
>C19 Deaths 0 23,000
>C19 Cases 265 572,600
>Population 95,000,000 327,000,000
>Pop.Density 290/km^2 34/km^2
>WHO and China were telling everyone that the Chinese Virus was not
>communicable by human-to-human contact in mid-January.
> ...
>communicable by human-to-human contact in mid-January.
No. There was one wrong report from China to that effect in
mid-January. Yes WHO retweeted that China said there was
one such report, just like there are reports now that
hydroxychloroquine cures COVID-19 (spoiler: it does not).
But the full timeline till mid-January looks something like this:
31 December: Chinese notify WHO
1 January..: WHO forms incident management team
4 January..: WHO issues social media alert
5 January..: WHO publishes report
10 January.: WHO issues technical guidance to all countries
on how to detect, test and manage cases.
12 January.: Genetic sequence of virus completed and made
public by China via WHO.
14 January.: WHO press briefing on transmissibility of virus
Vietnam, Taiwan and South Korea were paying attention. Fat
Orange Fuck was busy playing golf and *holding indoor rallies*.
--bks
Dutch
Apr 13, 2020, 5:18:01 PM4/13/20
to
it was a lie. Every country knew it very early on.
> Vietnam has a population that is highly structured and a society that is
> well-equipped for uniform mobile action. They fall in line quickly and
> without question. America is nothing like that culturally.
president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and the
mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
> You are very flippant about Sweden, but the same applies to the U.S.,
> yet you don't phrase the pandemic in the U.S. that way, choosing instead
> to prattle on with criticisms of Trump. Your thinking has been damaged.
this pandemic. Italy, the UK and France are on that list. South Korea
and Germany are countries who reacted swiftly and effectively. Trump
just did it the most obviously and spectacularly.
I fear that the US population has become so deeply resistant to facts
that you're doomed to suffer from this virus for a long time to come.
risky biz
Apr 13, 2020, 5:56:50 PM4/13/20
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risky biz
Apr 13, 2020, 6:03:33 PM4/13/20
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Clave
Apr 13, 2020, 6:32:59 PM4/13/20
to
How's that?
Clave
Apr 13, 2020, 6:33:40 PM4/13/20
to
On 4/13/2020 11:44 AM, Mossingen wrote:
> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
> news:r72edl$p7s$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
> Mossingen <jhan...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
>>
>> [If you could learn to post using proper typographical
>> conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
>> that's too much to ask.]
>> ...
>> Discussions are conducted here in English.
>> ...
>
> That's not what typography means.
>
> --bks
>
> __________
>
>
> Christ, man
Words mean things, moron.
> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
> news:r72edl$p7s$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
> Mossingen <jhan...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
>>
>> [If you could learn to post using proper typographical
>> conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
>> that's too much to ask.]
>> ...
>> Discussions are conducted here in English.
>> ...
>
> That's not what typography means.
>
> --bks
>
> __________
>
>
> Christ, man
fffurken
Apr 13, 2020, 7:56:06 PM4/13/20
to
Anyone who thinks we know what the death rate is is a moron and not because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19" and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST for it!
You people are idiots, you question nothing.
It's very sad to see Paul has joined your ranks, or, I haven't see any questioning posts of his. Then again, I don't read any of this cesspit.. I'll tell you one thing that's definitely dead, RGP.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 8:03:03 PM4/13/20
to
fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> ...
1. True
2. False, it's the other way around. When a body is found
it is *not* tested for COVID-19, because there is a
severe shortage of tests. Therefore there are many
deaths which are not counted and should be.
3. Well it's not perfect but the RT-PCR test does seem
to be damned good at selecting the population who
are going to end up in the ICU with pneumonia and
kidney failure.
--bks
> ...
>Anyone who thinks we know what the death rate is is a moron and not
>because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We
>have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically
>every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19"
>and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST
>for it!
> ...
>because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We
>have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically
>every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19"
>and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST
>for it!
1. True
2. False, it's the other way around. When a body is found
it is *not* tested for COVID-19, because there is a
severe shortage of tests. Therefore there are many
deaths which are not counted and should be.
3. Well it's not perfect but the RT-PCR test does seem
to be damned good at selecting the population who
are going to end up in the ICU with pneumonia and
kidney failure.
--bks
fffurken
Apr 13, 2020, 8:23:06 PM4/13/20
to
I said, dead bodies diagnosed with "Covid-19", regardless of before or after, are being counted as deaths from/of "Covid-19", and not with it.
Every day we get the death tally in Ireland along with an additional two facts - median age and number of whom had a "reported underlying medical condition". The median age has never been below 80 and the majority have always had a reported underlying medical condition.
For example today, from the Irish Times;
Thirty-one more people have died from the coronavirus in the Republic, as the number of known cases has now surpassed 10,000.
Twenty-five of the patients who died had underlying health conditions, according to the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET). Thirteen of the deceased were men and 18 were women, with a median age of 82.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-republic-reports-31-further-deaths-as-cases-pass-10-000-1.4227713
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 8:38:04 PM4/13/20
to
fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:03:03 AM UTC+1, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
>> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
>> > ...
>> >Anyone who thinks we know what the death rate is is a moron and not
>> >because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We
>> >have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically
>> >every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19"
>> >and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST
>> >for it!
>> > ...
>>
>> 1. True
>> 2. False, it's the other way around. When a body is found
>> it is *not* tested for COVID-19, because there is a
>> severe shortage of tests. Therefore there are many
>> deaths which are not counted and should be.
>> 3. Well it's not perfect but the RT-PCR test does seem
>> to be damned good at selecting the population who
>> are going to end up in the ICU with pneumonia and
>> kidney failure.
>
>On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:03:03 AM UTC+1, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
>> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
>> > ...
>> >Anyone who thinks we know what the death rate is is a moron and not
>> >because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We
>> >have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically
>> >every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19"
>> >and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST
>> >for it!
>> > ...
>>
>> 1. True
>> 2. False, it's the other way around. When a body is found
>> it is *not* tested for COVID-19, because there is a
>> severe shortage of tests. Therefore there are many
>> deaths which are not counted and should be.
>> 3. Well it's not perfect but the RT-PCR test does seem
>> to be damned good at selecting the population who
>> are going to end up in the ICU with pneumonia and
>> kidney failure.
>
>You have not falsified my number two.
I have indeed. You made a whackadoodle claim. I can back mine up:
|
| Coroners worry Covid-19 test shortages could lead to uncounted
| deaths
|
| Jill Romann, the coroner in Douglas County, Colorado, was
| so desperate for coronavirus tests that she began calling
| hospitals in the middle of the night to avoid management,
| begging whoever was on duty for one or two test kits.
|
| Her total collection reached about 13 before the hospitals
| caught on and shut her down.
|
| She asked the state health department for help getting the
| tests needed to determine whether deaths were linked to the
| virus. But she said the agency told her it was not
| providing them to coroners because it was prioritizing the
| tests for the living. She hasn't been able to get the
| supplies she needs from private labs either.
| ...
<https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/health/coronavirus-coroners-uncounted-deaths-invs/index.html>
--bks
fffurken
Apr 13, 2020, 8:46:29 PM4/13/20
to
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:38:04 AM UTC+1, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:03:03 AM UTC+1, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> >> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> >> > ...
> >> >Anyone who thinks we know what the death rate is is a moron and not
> >> >because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We
> >> >have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically
> >> >every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19"
> >> >and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST
> >> >for it!
> >> > ...
> >>
> >> 1. True
> >> 2. False, it's the other way around. When a body is found
> >> it is *not* tested for COVID-19, because there is a
> >> severe shortage of tests. Therefore there are many
> >> deaths which are not counted and should be.
> >> 3. Well it's not perfect but the RT-PCR test does seem
> >> to be damned good at selecting the population who
> >> are going to end up in the ICU with pneumonia and
> >> kidney failure.
> >
> >You have not falsified my number two.
>
> I have indeed. You made a whackadoodle claim.
1) You did not falsify what I said, that's just a fact jack.
> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:03:03 AM UTC+1, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> >> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> >> > ...
> >> >Anyone who thinks we know what the death rate is is a moron and not
> >> >because it varies wildly from country to country, it's because 1. We
> >> >have no idea how many people have and have had it 2. Clearly practically
> >> >every government in the world is conflating deaths from/of "Covid-19"
> >> >and deaths with it and 3. We don't even know if there is a VALID TEST
> >> >for it!
> >> > ...
> >>
> >> 1. True
> >> 2. False, it's the other way around. When a body is found
> >> it is *not* tested for COVID-19, because there is a
> >> severe shortage of tests. Therefore there are many
> >> deaths which are not counted and should be.
> >> 3. Well it's not perfect but the RT-PCR test does seem
> >> to be damned good at selecting the population who
> >> are going to end up in the ICU with pneumonia and
> >> kidney failure.
> >
> >You have not falsified my number two.
>
> I have indeed. You made a whackadoodle claim.
and
2) I did not make a "whackadoodle claim" you fucking sheeple.
To think that everyone in their nineties with terminal cancer is dying *from* "Covid-19" is a whackadoodle claim.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 8:48:39 PM4/13/20
to
fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> ...
I backed up my claim. You retorted with an ad hominem.
I win. Game over.
--bks
> ...
>2) I did not make a "whackadoodle claim" you fucking sheeple.
> ...
I backed up my claim. You retorted with an ad hominem.
I win. Game over.
--bks
fffurken
Apr 13, 2020, 8:53:17 PM4/13/20
to
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 1:48:39 AM UTC+1, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> >2) I did not make a "whackadoodle claim" you fucking sheeple.
> > ...
>
> I backed up my claim.
The only claim you made that I'm interested in (or is relevant) is your claim that you falsified mine, which you did not. Moron.
> fffurken <fffu...@mail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> >2) I did not make a "whackadoodle claim" you fucking sheeple.
> > ...
>
> I backed up my claim.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 13, 2020, 9:01:52 PM4/13/20
to
--bks
Mossingen
Apr 14, 2020, 2:55:29 AM4/14/20
to
"BillB" wrote in message
news:98fd3e24-2915-4fe7...@googlegroups.com...
>Here is an excerpt from a WHO Emergency Preparedness and Response alert
>dated January 5, 2020:
>"Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s
>recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of influenza and
>severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
Which "national authorities"? China? You can't be that stupid.
Also, WHO has updated its web site to sanitize what it said originally. Not
really sure what that sentence is supposed to mean. It certainly doesn't
say what you think it says or rebut anything I asserted.
The WHO is a Chinese agent in essence, and China is a totalitarian police
state that has no free press, in fact kicked out the American press when
this shit started, and for some reason you seem to think they are A-OK.
>Further, there is no such thing as the "Chinese Virus," except maybe on Fox
>News. You sound like a grade school dropout (or an Oklahoman).
The Chinese Virus is named for its country of origin, which is China. I'm
good with the Wuhan Viris, if you like. That's probably more appropriate,
and if it makes you less offended and butt-hurt I can start saying Wuhan
Virus.
>The only acceptable colloquial term is "Trumpvirus," and that's only in
>relation to the virus as it exists in North America. Trump oversaw the
>rapid explosion of the disease from 5 cases to >over half a million while
>he hid in denial and talked utter bullshit with his thumb up his ass.
You're just batshit insane. No one outside of your floor at the nuthouse
says Trumpvirus.
> You are very flippant about Sweden
>I don't really understand your point about Sweden. It is geographically
>removed from the epicenter therefore they are slightly behind the curve.
>They are currently experiencing an explosion >of cases in Stockholm and
>have a truly frightening fatality rate of around 5% (919 deaths as of
>today). Given enough time and a total lack of mitigation strategies (which
>is not the case there) >they will end up with 50% infected or more, just
>like everyone else.
That remains to be seen. If you don't understand my point, then you're
dense. They have done nothing to shut down their society, industry,
restaurants, and social gathering spots; yet the Chinese Virus is affecting
the population more than some of their neighbors, but less or the same as
European countries. The "epicenter" is China, you dimwit. How it spread
from there depends on a lot of things, including population age, density,
and government measures like social distancing, hand washing etc.
The point is that I see a connection between Sweden, its Nordic neighbors,
and the hardest European nations and the individual states in the U.S.
It's hitting some states very hard, and others not hardly at all.
news:98fd3e24-2915-4fe7...@googlegroups.com...
>Here is an excerpt from a WHO Emergency Preparedness and Response alert
>dated January 5, 2020:
>"Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s
>recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of influenza and
>severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
Also, WHO has updated its web site to sanitize what it said originally. Not
really sure what that sentence is supposed to mean. It certainly doesn't
say what you think it says or rebut anything I asserted.
The WHO is a Chinese agent in essence, and China is a totalitarian police
state that has no free press, in fact kicked out the American press when
this shit started, and for some reason you seem to think they are A-OK.
>Further, there is no such thing as the "Chinese Virus," except maybe on Fox
>News. You sound like a grade school dropout (or an Oklahoman).
good with the Wuhan Viris, if you like. That's probably more appropriate,
and if it makes you less offended and butt-hurt I can start saying Wuhan
Virus.
>The only acceptable colloquial term is "Trumpvirus," and that's only in
>relation to the virus as it exists in North America. Trump oversaw the
>rapid explosion of the disease from 5 cases to >over half a million while
>he hid in denial and talked utter bullshit with his thumb up his ass.
says Trumpvirus.
> You are very flippant about Sweden
>I don't really understand your point about Sweden. It is geographically
>removed from the epicenter therefore they are slightly behind the curve.
>They are currently experiencing an explosion >of cases in Stockholm and
>have a truly frightening fatality rate of around 5% (919 deaths as of
>today). Given enough time and a total lack of mitigation strategies (which
>is not the case there) >they will end up with 50% infected or more, just
>like everyone else.
dense. They have done nothing to shut down their society, industry,
restaurants, and social gathering spots; yet the Chinese Virus is affecting
the population more than some of their neighbors, but less or the same as
European countries. The "epicenter" is China, you dimwit. How it spread
from there depends on a lot of things, including population age, density,
and government measures like social distancing, hand washing etc.
The point is that I see a connection between Sweden, its Nordic neighbors,
and the hardest European nations and the individual states in the U.S.
It's hitting some states very hard, and others not hardly at all.
Clave
Apr 14, 2020, 2:58:26 AM4/14/20
to
On 4/13/2020 10:55 PM, Mossingen wrote:
> "BillB" wrote in message
> news:98fd3e24-2915-4fe7...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> Here is an excerpt from a WHO Emergency Preparedness and Response
>> alert dated January 5, 2020:
>
>> "Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s
>> recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of
>> influenza and severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
>
>
> Which "national authorities"?
Look it the fuck up, you drooling feeb.
> "BillB" wrote in message
> news:98fd3e24-2915-4fe7...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> Here is an excerpt from a WHO Emergency Preparedness and Response
>> alert dated January 5, 2020:
>
>> "Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s
>> recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of
>> influenza and severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
>
>
> Which "national authorities"?
Mossingen
Apr 14, 2020, 3:04:51 AM4/14/20
to
"Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
news:r72kah$kqh$1...@reader2.panix.com...
LOL...a "wrong" report from China. Jesus Christ you act like China is a
good faith actor in this, which explains a lot. They lied, covered-up and
spread disinformation from day one, kicked out Western reporters early on,
and continue to obstruct efforts to get answers to this day.
Asian counties are culturally more equipped to deal with these things,
mobilizing like disciplined ants and not complaining about government
intrusion into their privacy. What worked in South Korea would not have
worked in America. The WaPo article below is interesting, and they hate
Trump just like you:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/10/south-korea-is-winning-fight-against-covid-19-us-is-failing/
popinjay
Apr 14, 2020, 3:06:12 AM4/14/20
to
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-7, fffurken wrote:
>
> It's very sad to see Paul has joined your ranks, or, I haven't see any questioning posts of his.
Why would I want to do that?
>
> It's very sad to see Paul has joined your ranks, or, I haven't see any questioning posts of his.
Anyway, I'm happy you're back. I missed you.
Mossingen
Apr 14, 2020, 3:08:22 AM4/14/20
to
"Dutch" wrote in message news:9G4lG.19780$Po5....@fx08.iad...
>That is true, and that weakness in a crisis has been exacerbated by a
>president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and the
>mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
It's a dynamic in the American psyche similar to what BillB has been telling
you about how Americans feel about national healthcare, so of course you
don't understand it.
South Koreans will line up and stand there in silence and without
questioning why, don't mind if the government tracks their every movement on
their phones and punishes them if they step out of line. This is great for
dealing with a pandemic. But, the same things that work there don't work in
the U.S.
That's not Trump's fault. He is trying to deal with 50 separate governments
who all think they know better than him on how to deal with the Chinese
Virus. He has managed it beautifully so far.
>That is true, and that weakness in a crisis has been exacerbated by a
>president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and the
>mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
you about how Americans feel about national healthcare, so of course you
don't understand it.
South Koreans will line up and stand there in silence and without
questioning why, don't mind if the government tracks their every movement on
their phones and punishes them if they step out of line. This is great for
dealing with a pandemic. But, the same things that work there don't work in
the U.S.
That's not Trump's fault. He is trying to deal with 50 separate governments
who all think they know better than him on how to deal with the Chinese
Virus. He has managed it beautifully so far.
Mossingen
Apr 14, 2020, 3:11:06 AM4/14/20
to
"Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
news:r73193$fdb$1...@reader2.panix.com...
fffurken is insane, but he does make a good point, confirmed by Dr. Birx,
that the government is counting COVID-19 deaths even in cases where it's not
the direct cause. The extent to which that overreporting is inflating the
numbers is unknown.
Clave
Apr 14, 2020, 3:12:39 AM4/14/20
to
On 4/13/2020 11:44 AM, Mossingen wrote:
> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
> news:r72edl$p7s$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
> Mossingen <jhan...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
>>
>> [If you could learn to post using proper typographical
>> conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
>> that's too much to ask.]
>> ...
>> Discussions are conducted here in English.
>> ...
>
> That's not what typography means.
>
> --bks
>
> __________
>
>
> Christ, man, you're like trying to have a conversation with Clave.
Thanks. Bradley spanks your ass about as thoroughly and regularly as I
> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
> news:r72edl$p7s$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
> Mossingen <jhan...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "Bradley K. Sherman" wrote in message
>>
>> [If you could learn to post using proper typographical
>> conventions, you would enable discussion. But I guess
>> that's too much to ask.]
>> ...
>> Discussions are conducted here in English.
>> ...
>
> That's not what typography means.
>
> --bks
>
> __________
>
>
> Christ, man, you're like trying to have a conversation with Clave.
do, if not more.
BillB
Apr 14, 2020, 3:13:33 AM4/14/20
to
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:55:29 PM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:
> >"Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s
> >recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of influenza and
> >severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
>
>
> Which "national authorities"? China? You can't be that stupid.
I assume they are talking about information received from China and Italy, the countries that were most affected at the time. Why am I stupid?
> >"Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s
> >recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of influenza and
> >severe acute respiratory infections still apply."
>
>
> Which "national authorities"? China? You can't be that stupid.
> Also, WHO has updated its web site to sanitize what it said originally. Not
> really sure what that sentence is supposed to mean. It certainly doesn't
> say what you think it says or rebut anything I asserted.
Further, also directly contradicting your claim, on January 14th:
"WHO's technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens."
> The WHO is a Chinese agent in essence
, and China is a totalitarian police
> state that has no free press, in fact kicked out the American press when
> this shit started, and for some reason you seem to think they are A-OK.
> >Further, there is no such thing as the "Chinese Virus," except maybe on Fox
> >News. You sound like a grade school dropout (or an Oklahoman).
>
>
> The Chinese Virus is named for its country of origin, which is China.
I'm
> good with the Wuhan Viris, if you like.
That's probably more appropriate,
> and if it makes you less offended and butt-hurt I can start saying Wuhan
> Virus.
> >The only acceptable colloquial term is "Trumpvirus," and that's only in
> >relation to the virus as it exists in North America. Trump oversaw the
> >rapid explosion of the disease from 5 cases to >over half a million while
> >he hid in denial and talked utter bullshit with his thumb up his ass.
>
>
> You're just batshit insane. No one outside of your floor at the nuthouse
> says Trumpvirus.
> > You are very flippant about Sweden
>
> >I don't really understand your point about Sweden. It is geographically
> >removed from the epicenter therefore they are slightly behind the curve.
> >They are currently experiencing an explosion >of cases in Stockholm and
> >have a truly frightening fatality rate of around 5% (919 deaths as of
> >today). Given enough time and a total lack of mitigation strategies (which
> >is not the case there) >they will end up with 50% infected or more, just
> >like everyone else.
>
>
> That remains to be seen. If you don't understand my point, then you're
> dense. They have done nothing to shut down their society, industry,
> restaurants, and social gathering spots; yet the Chinese Virus is affecting
> the population more than some of their neighbors, but less or the same as
> European countries.
>The "epicenter" is China, you dimwit.
How it spread
> from there depends on a lot of things, including population age, density,
> and government measures like social distancing, hand washing etc.
>
> The point is that I see a connection between Sweden, its Nordic neighbors,
> and the hardest European nations and the individual states in the U.S.
> It's hitting some states very hard, and others not hardly at all.
Clave
Apr 14, 2020, 3:15:32 AM4/14/20
to
Clave
Apr 14, 2020, 3:16:28 AM4/14/20
to
On 4/13/2020 11:08 PM, Mossingen wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:9G4lG.19780$Po5....@fx08.iad...
>
>> That is true, and that weakness in a crisis has been exacerbated by a
>> president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and
>> the mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
>
>
> It's a dynamic in the American psyche similar to what BillB has been
> telling you about how Americans feel about national healthcare, so of
> course you don't understand it.
Dutch understands it one or two fucks of a lot more about it than you do.
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:9G4lG.19780$Po5....@fx08.iad...
>
>> That is true, and that weakness in a crisis has been exacerbated by a
>> president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and
>> the mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
>
>
> It's a dynamic in the American psyche similar to what BillB has been
> telling you about how Americans feel about national healthcare, so of
> course you don't understand it.
Dutch
Apr 14, 2020, 4:12:46 AM4/14/20
to
On 2020-04-14 12:08 a.m., Mossingen wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:9G4lG.19780$Po5....@fx08.iad...
>
>> That is true, and that weakness in a crisis has been exacerbated by a
>> president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and
>> the mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
>
>
> It's a dynamic in the American psyche similar to what BillB has been
> telling you about how Americans feel about national healthcare, so of
> course you don't understand it.
>
> South Koreans will line up and stand there in silence and without
> questioning why,
They know why, it's obvious why, so the spread of the virus can be
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:9G4lG.19780$Po5....@fx08.iad...
>
>> That is true, and that weakness in a crisis has been exacerbated by a
>> president who has built his presidency by deepening the divides and
>> the mistrust of authority or expertise of any kind (other than his).
>
>
> It's a dynamic in the American psyche similar to what BillB has been
> telling you about how Americans feel about national healthcare, so of
> course you don't understand it.
>
> South Koreans will line up and stand there in silence and without
> questioning why,
contained and traced. Canadians understand it too.
> don't mind if the government tracks their every
> movement on their phones and punishes them if they step out of line.
> This is great for dealing with a pandemic. But, the same things that
> work there don't work in the U.S.
since 2001. But to your point, talking about going back to life as
normal without first discussing widespread testing and contact tracing
is ridiculous, it's putting the cart before the horse. It's a typical
Donald Trump shortcut, only this time it's deadly.
> That's not Trump's fault. He is trying to deal with 50 separate
> governments who all think they know better than him on how to deal with
> the Chinese Virus. He has managed it beautifully so far.
were TRYING to infect the country. He de-funded or disbanded every
pandemic early warning system. But despite that there were early
warnings from health experts. He didn't want to hear them. He bristled
or just tuned advisors out. He called them "alarmists". He carried on an
"everything is fine" counter-narrative for three or four critical weeks
while the virus got a foothold. By the time he was convinced to start
sounding the alarms it was too late. Then he became temporarily sane and
allowed the experts to lead. Now he's gone cuckoo again and wants to
jump the gun to get the economy restarted soon. I almost hope he does
because it will be a fucking disaster. I believe the governors have
taken charge though. They have no choice, there is no leader, he is the
King with no clothes.
Dutch
Apr 14, 2020, 4:14:44 AM4/14/20
to
NY 4x as many as normal, those are surely Covid-19 and are not being
included.
Bradley K. Sherman
Apr 14, 2020, 8:36:05 PM4/14/20
to
|
| There's Been a Spike in People Dying at Home in Several
| Cities. That Suggests Coronavirus Deaths Are Higher Than
| Reported.
|
| Coronavirus death counts are based on positive tests and
| driven by hospital deaths. But data from major metropolitan
| areas shows a spike in at-home deaths, prompting one expert
| to say current numbers were just "the tip of the iceberg."
| ...
<https://www.propublica.org/article/theres-been-a-spike-in-people-dying-at-home-in-several-cities-that-suggests-coronavirus-deaths-are-higher-than-reported>
--bks
| There's Been a Spike in People Dying at Home in Several
| Cities. That Suggests Coronavirus Deaths Are Higher Than
| Reported.
|
| Coronavirus death counts are based on positive tests and
| driven by hospital deaths. But data from major metropolitan
| areas shows a spike in at-home deaths, prompting one expert
| to say current numbers were just "the tip of the iceberg."
| ...
<https://www.propublica.org/article/theres-been-a-spike-in-people-dying-at-home-in-several-cities-that-suggests-coronavirus-deaths-are-higher-than-reported>
--bks
fffurken
Apr 14, 2020, 10:42:53 PM4/14/20
to
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:06:12 AM UTC+1, popinjay wrote:
> Why would I want to do that?
>
> Anyway, I'm happy you're back. I missed you.
Thanks Paul. I learned a lot from you, you're a smart man.
> Why would I want to do that?
>
> Anyway, I'm happy you're back. I missed you.
But I don't think there's anything to come back to here, it's all Trump Trump Trump. And even that's just a re-run of what the left-loon boomer idiots watched on the propaganda box the night before..
fffurken
Apr 14, 2020, 10:46:22 PM4/14/20
to
Today's death tally from Ireland of 'Covid-19', I read it every day, I'm *still* waiting for it to be 79 (or lower) -
The median age of the deaths reported today is 85, and 31 (of 41) of the patients were reported as having underlying health conditions.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-another-41-deaths-announced-in-the-republic-1.4228521
The median age of the deaths reported today is 85, and 31 (of 41) of the patients were reported as having underlying health conditions.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-another-41-deaths-announced-in-the-republic-1.4228521
fffurken
Apr 14, 2020, 11:02:42 PM4/14/20
to
popinjay
Apr 14, 2020, 11:36:36 PM4/14/20
to
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:02:42 PM UTC-7, fffurken wrote:
>
> lofl Oh my God. I don't know who's stupider, you or "I watch CNN regularly" Billb.. that article contains literally ZERO citations!
You can disagree with BillB, as do I, but we can't tell when he's yanking our chain. But Bradley Sherman is bonafide stupid. You can feel confident about that.
>
> lofl Oh my God. I don't know who's stupider, you or "I watch CNN regularly" Billb.. that article contains literally ZERO citations!
popinjay
Apr 14, 2020, 11:53:04 PM4/14/20
to
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:42:53 PM UTC-7, fffurken wrote:
>
> But I don't think there's anything to come back to here, it's all Trump Trump Trump. And even that's just a re-run of what the left-loon boomer idiots watched on the propaganda box the night before..
I have questions about Trump also. There is a lot that is a mystery to me. But Dutch and Bradley are just left-wing parrots. There is no one here making interesting challenges of Trump, just the old "Orange Man Bad" regurgitation. Nothing cerebral.
>
> But I don't think there's anything to come back to here, it's all Trump Trump Trump. And even that's just a re-run of what the left-loon boomer idiots watched on the propaganda box the night before..
Dutch
Apr 15, 2020, 2:36:20 AM4/15/20
to
and also when the coronavirus is defeated.
BillB
Apr 15, 2020, 2:51:15 AM4/15/20
to
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:13:33 AM UTC-7, BillB wrote:
> > Which "national authorities"? China? You can't be that stupid.
>
> I assume they are talking about information received from China and Italy, the countries that were most affected at the time.
Sorry, scratch Italy. They didn't come into the picture until 2 weeks later.
> > Which "national authorities"? China? You can't be that stupid.
>
> I assume they are talking about information received from China and Italy, the countries that were most affected at the time.
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