Why We Gamble
lawh...@hiwaay.net
Dines, who wrote a book about investment psychology and how
“psychological factors” influence the thinking and decisions of
investors. Mr. Dines made reference to what he believes is a strong
but not well understood factor that subconsciously influences both
gamblers and investors: The secret desire to lose as a form of self
punishment. Mr. Dines has looked into this psychological factor quite
extensively and believes this “secret desire” to be true for many
gamblers – including those folks who gamble (or “invest”) in the stock
and commodities markets.
This line of thought intrigued me, so I went searching Google and
Wikipedia to try and find articles and information that would support
this theory. I came across this interesting blog post:
http://green-all-over.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-we-gamble.html
It’s kind of strange, (eerie in a way), but some of the six factors
cited in the blog post apply to me while others (very definitely) do
not. In particular, I don’t think – or I very much hope – that I
don’t harbor a secret desire to lose. If that is the case, why do I
spend so much time and effort reading and studying poker books and
striving to improve my game? Most gamblers with a secret desire to
lose don’t even bother trying to improve their game. Most of those
folks have probably never picked up (or bothered to read) a poker book
– much less spent the time and effort necessary to diligently apply
themselves to the hard work of improving their skills – so I don’t
think I have a secret desire to lose.
But, at the same time, there is the unsettling aspect of reading this
blog post: Two (maybe three) of those six “vital factors” do resonate
with me. I (definitely) have “family issues” with some of my
relatives, but how many people do you know who don’t? I certainly
notice that quite a number of the top poker players, (i.e. Hellmuth,
Matusow, the late Stu Unger, and several others), have problems with
addictive substances. (It might not be fair to lump Phil Hellmuth in
with “Mike the Mouth” and Stu Unger. I believe Phil Hellmuth is just
generally crazy.)
I know a substantial proportion of the population looks down upon all
gamblers (including poker players) as substandard human beings
afflicted by “moral weakness” and other failings. But is that really
fair? After all, most of these people owe their jobs and their
livelihood to a “gambler” who overcame 19:1 odds that his (or her)
startup business would survive beyond the first year. Ninety-five
percent of the gainfully employed are direct beneficiaries of a brave
soul who had the courage to risk everything. In a very real sense,
much of the prosperity we all enjoy is due to these “sick” individuals
who were willing to take a risk. I suspect we’re all gamblers –
whether we’re willing to admit it or not.
Alan C. Lawhon
Huntsville, Alabama
Steam
Ok, you read the poker books, do you win or lose overall? If you've kept
good enough track of your long term results you can easily see whether you
are losing money, and if you are actually winning money, then you probably
dont have a secret desire to lose, even if its $20.00 a month. One guy at
the table was saying that people gamble because we secretly want the pain
or some gibberish like that. Thats probably why he plays possibly even
most people, but some of us know our way to the cashier when we are
leaving.
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Tim Norfolk
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> - Show quoted text -
My observations:
1. Most poker players like the thrill of winning a hand, especially
one that they had no business being in.
2. Most low-limit players that I know are so bad at numbers that the
are convinced that they 'basically break even'.
da pickle
My observations:
1. Most poker players like the thrill of winning a hand, especially
one that they had no business being in.
2. Most low-limit players that I know are so bad at numbers that the
are convinced that they 'basically break even'.
========================
I think they "say" that they basically break even but they are not fooling
even themselves.
I believe most low limit players believe their lost money is payment for the
entertainment they get from the game.
Travel A
Some enjoy the comfort of self-pity that losing brings, rather than
dealing with the abrupt, stark reality that, when they win, it doesn't
solve all their problems in life. Psychologically, they're afraid to
win, because winning is actually a letdown; winning is out of their
comfort zone.
(Doctors say that many people with physical disabilities,
psychologically, don't want to get better...)
If you're like Jackie Gleason and George C. Scott, who look for and
seize upon every edge, then you're a winner. If you're like Paul Newman,
and in effect, look for ways to lose, you're a loser.
The solution is: snap out of it!
But then, a "winner personality" isn't always a noble characteristc,
either. Some may be driven by a need to "prove something" due to
underlying insecurity.
You can go on and on with this stuff.
.
Tim Norfolk
I am not sure about that in general. In the local games that I have
played, in Ohio, there are many very awful players who continue to
throw money away, and never change the way that they play. It is clear
from their cars and dress that they simply can't afford the stakes
(the most popular game here used to be $10-20 limit Hold Em).
Follow
> Ok, you read the poker books, do you win or lose overall? If you've kept
> good enough track of your long term results you can easily see whether you
> are losing money, and if you are actually winning money, then you probably
> dont have a secret desire to lose, even if its $20.00 a month. One guy at
> the table was saying that people gamble because we secretly want the pain
> or some gibberish like that. Thats probably why he plays possibly even
> most people, but some of us know our way to the cashier when we are
> leaving.
The important thing to remember though, is that 95% (or was it 99%?) of
"gamblers" are consistent losers. Whether they lose $20/month or
$1M/month, they lose consistently. This article is trying to explain the
reason why this vast majority of players keeps coming back to the table.
It does not attempt to explain winners whether winning $20/month or
1M/month.
Those who win are working a part or full time job with no difference
between playing poker or punching in at the factory. I imagine
psychological factors really don't enter into it when you're just working
a mathematical formula and reaching the expected result. If this article
applied to the tiny minority of winners, then casino owners would fall
into the same category. Probably any business owner, really...
Follow :)
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croupe
bit. I didn't believe it at first, but then I ran into a couple of
players that exhibited every trait he spoke of. They could be up $500
in a $3-$6 limit game, but won't leave the table until they are flat
broke and can't borrow another dime. These are the extreme cases, so
I guess there will be people with less exagerated forms of this
behavior at every table you sit at. It's weird to think about, but
you know that they can't keep records (thank God) or they would quit
the game. Part of me feels bad for taking their cash week after week,
but I justify it by telling myself that if I don't take the dough, one
of the other players at the table will - so it might as well be me.
Croupe
New And Improved Bea Foroni
dopamine, serotonine, and other neuro-transmitters are released. Not
unlike the high experienced from some drugs.
A person often will feel so good from winning that they will go to
great lenghts to replicate the feeling. Often the gambler will lose a
great deal of money to get the rush that a small win gives.
Like a drug addict who needs ever increasing amounts of drug to get
the same high, gamblers often will need an increasing amount of
winning to get the same "high".
Often gamblers are depressed personalities. They lack the normal
amount of neuro-transmitters, and so are self medicating by playing.
Often it is the "sad sack" who'll gamble large amounts of money to
experience the rush of even a small win.
For a better explanation Google "dopamine gambling".