OT: Canadian Health Care Trip Report (part 3)
BillB
no-punches-pulled expos� on the socialist Canadian health care system,
from the inside, from the perspective of a patient (me).
**********************
On the morning of March 3, I am at the very same parking machine that
took me for $12 a couple of weeks earlier. No fucking way I was paying
$12 for the whole day again, but it was $3 per *half hour*. What to
do?
I rolled the dice and put in $6. I positioned the slip on the back of
my
dash so it was difficult to see the time stamp.
So I head up to my doctor's office. I check in with her receptionist,
who as always is very friendly and professional. She asks me to have a
seat. The doctor will be right with me. Sure enough, a few minutes
later my doctor comes out to greet me personally, like she always
does. I think
it's a nice touch. She must book at least 45 minutes for each patient,
because I never see another patient there, and she really takes her
time going over every little detail with me. If anything, she's *too*
thorough.
My nephrologist is just the sweetest, most gentle, most caring woman
you have ever met in your life. As a bonus, she just happens to do
kidney transplants and teach internal medicine at UBC in her spare
time. I trust this woman with my life.
So she directs me into her examination room, where she feels me up a
bit and checks my breathing. As is her practice, she then tells me she
would like to leave for a couple of minutes and have me relax, after
which point she will return and take my blood pressure.
After taking my blood pressure twice, she finds my blood pressure a
tad high. She directs me into her office so we can discuss everything.
So, she tells me, the MRI, blood and urine tests were basically good
news. Aside from
having kidneys the size of footballs, they are still working
remarkably well. I am "very stable", she says. This is what I like to
hear! She goes over every last number with me, most of which goes over
my head. There was a little more protein in my urine than usual, but
that was probably because my blood pressure was a little elevated,
forcing more protein molecules through the membranes...yadda yadda
yadda. All I heard was "very stable".
So she tells me she is going to prescribe an old, cheap, safe and
effective blood pressure medication. She comments how she is
constantly bombarded with drug salesmen pushing ever-higher priced
drugs, that she wasn't always immune to their charms, but that what
she was
giving me was a first line drug that was usually as effective as any
new drug the salesmen happened to be pushing that week. So she writes
me up a script and a requisition for another blood test 2 weeks after
I start this medication. She wants to make sure the medication doesn't
elevate my uric acid. Oooook, whatever you say doc.
So we are wrapping up and she asks me if there is anything else she
can do for me (and you could tell she really meant it). I mentioned
that given my age, my slightly elevated blood pressure, the fact that
my dad died of heart attack at 40, I was wondering if I should have my
heart checked out at some point. No, I respond, I have never had any
symptoms like chest pain, shortness of breath, etc. She says that
it's unlikely I have a problem, given that my cholesterol is spot on,
and that I am in pretty good shape, but she can schedule some tests
anyway, and she
starts running through all these tests they could do on me. One of the
best ones, she says, involves pumping my heart full of "non-toxic"
radioactive dye and then watching how my heart pumps while working out
on the treadmill. She said that can detect partial blockages in any
area of your heart. I think she called it a nuclear heart scan or
something like that. It sounded very high tech. I want that one! So
she makes some notes and says something about setting it up for
me.
I left her office that morning feeling very lucky, satisfied, and well
taken care of. When I got downstairs my car was still there, capping
off yet another very satisfying health care experience. I must be the
luckiest health care consumer in Canada.
Total out of pocket cost for consultation with world-class
nephrologist: $6
When I got home I went straight to the pharmacy across the street to
fill my prescription. It was obviously very busy in there, with at
least five pharmacists and technicians working diligently in the back.
"Can you give us 30 minutes?", she asks apologetically. Not a problem.
I just went home and played some poker for an hour. When I went back
my prescription was ready. The pharmacy technician asked me if I had
ever taken that medication before, and when I said no, she called the
pharmacist out of the back to go over all the details with me. Total
out of pocket cost of medication and professional consultation: zero.
The following day I took my blood pressure with my home unit. 118/79.
Wow, this woman is a genius. I hadn't seen it that low for a long
time.
So yesterday afternoon I am sitting around playing poker and I get a
call. The call display says it's St. Paul's Hospital. Oh my God. I
start to panic. What do they want? Did they
make a mistake? Am I actually dying after all?
No, they are calling to tell me I have a test set up for March 8 at 7
am.
A test? I already did all my tests. "A test for what?", I ask.
A heart scan, she told me. Huh? On March 3, I casually mentioned to
my doctor that maybe I should get my heart checked out someday, and
now they want me in for a Nuclear Heart Scan on March 8?? Whatever
happened to all these waiting lists I have heard so much about from
John Stossel? I don't want to go next week. I have too much going on
right now.
"Can we put it off a bit?", I ask.
"Well, we are booked up for the whole day. That's all
we have available"
"No, I mean, can we put it off for about a month? This is not an
emergency test."
"Sure, that's not a problem. How about April 5 at 7 am?"
"That will be great", I tell her. She goes on to give me all the
instructions for the test (fasting for 10 hours, no caffeine for 24
hours, etc)
So on April 5 or shortly thereafter I will find out what damage 40
years of poker and junk food have done to my heart. If all goes well,
I think I'll have them jam a camera up my ass next.
Mrs Iris Mike
> This shocking series of reports will be an undercover, hard-hitting,
I think you are leaving out parts. When did you consult with a
bankruptcy attorney so as to not lose your home when the real bill
comes from the clinic? What happens when the isurance companies denies
the claim due to it being a pre-existing condition? When the insurance
company drops you for being a high risk client, where do you go for
high risk insurance? When do you plan to go to America for the better
testing that will surely inform you you have a very expensive
condition that needs immediate expensive treatment? You still haven't
answered my original question; when do you get a visit from the death
panel?
Mrs Iris Mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh, one other thing. If you get kidney cancer, is the government going
to pay for the drug SU11428, made by Pfizer? True, the cost is nearly
$50,000 (American) to extend life for a year and it doesn't work for
everybody, but when it comes to old people living with cancer, no
expense should be spared. I guess that's where the death panels come
in, heh?
If you want to know more about a drug you socialised system won't pay
for, I've included a link. Here in America when we get turned down for
drugs like this it is because of good solid capatilist reasons, not
some commie kumbya mentality.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=aXTsUryrloEg
mo_charles
> >
> > So we are wrapping up and she asks me if there is anything else she
> > can do for me (and you could tell she really meant it). I mentioned
> > that given my age, my slightly elevated blood pressure, the fact that
> > my dad died of heart attack at 40, I was wondering if I should have my
> > heart checked out at some point. No, I respond, I have never had any
> > call. The call display says it's St. Paul's Hospital. Oh my God. I
> > start to panic. What do they want? Did they
> > make a mistake? Am I actually dying after all?
> >
> > No, they are calling to tell me I have a test set up for March 8 at 7
> > am.
> >
> > A test? I already did all my tests. "A test for what?", I ask.
> >
bea's a little under the weather and under-funded. have canadian doctors
cured homophobia yet, and does she need to move there to receive treatment?
mo_charles
______________________________________________________________________�ｿｽ
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Tad Perry
news:hmri7n$e21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[snip trip report]
Your reports are pretty fun. It reminds me of Sicko, where Roger Moore shows
a bunch of Americans complaining about how we wouldn't want Canadian
healthcare and how even Canadians don't like it. Then he goes to Canada and
can't find a single person who didn't like it. The stories of Canadians that
came to America and had emergency medical problems that cost them tens of
thousands of dollars for being on the wrong side of the border were
horrifying. One guy had to drive himself back over the border with a torn
muscle to save something like $27,000.
I *want* healthcare reform, but I want the free and universal type that
Canada, Britain and France have. But that would cut out the insurance
companies and they won't allow it. Our government is not representing the
people. It is representing those with money, who get it by fleecing the
people. Our corrupt form of money politics has become a disgrace to
democracy. How can we even describe ourselves as one anymore?
tvp
mary in vegas
jeeze...maybe you should go on sean hannity...that nitwit is always
blabbing about people having to come to this country for 'the best medical
care in the whole world.'
on another note...the BEST medical care here in vegas is currently in the
process of killing yet another friend of mine. diagnosis: lung
cancer...stage 4. had a year of CHEMO..all different kinds..radiating
beyond belief. results: one lung TOTALLY non functioning..tumor has
GROWN.
well with that success...guess what's next. a PILL that cost $4000/month.
lovely.
his great HMO insurance will cover half that pill cost. oh happy
days...now just $2000/month.
mary in vegas
---�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
bub
thanks for all that billb..is this the same story you tell all the
other retirees when you sit around at dennys eating the grand slam
senior special and talking about your prostates?
ContactGSW
> So, she tells me, the MRI, blood and urine tests were basically good
> news. Aside from
> having kidneys the size of footballs, they are still working
> remarkably well.
Sounds like polycystic kidneys. Your beans are full of cysts with 10 year
old urine in them. Don't sit down too hard or one will pop; ask your
Doctor about that, tell her I said it could happen, see what she says.
ContactGSW
Chic, it doesn't matter what you do, (sniiiff), you're always gonna smell
like fish.
(This is a line from a gambling movie, Hard Times. Chic is the name of a
man, who just got sharked and owns an oyster fishery. It has nothing to
do with women or their vaginas)
-------�
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
David Monaghan
wrote:
>On Mar 5 2010 1:23 PM, BillB wrote:
>> So, she tells me, the MRI, blood and urine tests were basically good
>> news. Aside from
>> having kidneys the size of footballs, they are still working
>> remarkably well.
>Sounds like polycystic kidneys. Your beans are full of cysts with 10 year
>old urine in them. Don't sit down too hard or one will pop; ask your
>Doctor about that, tell her I said it could happen, see what she says.
I always think of newsgroup as being populated by old codgers like me, so
that wasn't my guess.
DaveM
BillB
"ContactGSW" <a1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:8gg867x...@recgroups.com...
> Sounds like polycystic kidneys.
yup...I was rivered at conception.
I've had them burst before. Both times it was after epic driving
trips. Nothing gets your attention quite like pissing what appears to
be pure blood.
BillB
"BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote in message
news:hmri7n$e21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> So on April 5 or shortly thereafter I will find out what damage 40
> years of poker and junk food have done to my heart. If all goes
> well,
> I think I'll have them jam a camera up my ass next.
Quick update. I got another call today, this time for an appointment
for an echocardiogram on April 23. Now that they mention it, I do
remember her also saying something about a heart ultrasound. I told
you this woman has my back.
So she scheduled me for a nuclear heart scan and an echocardiogram.
Any of you amateur cardiologists out there want to second guess her
methods? Beldin? Do you approve?
Frisbieinstein
>
That's shocking. They've eliminated all of your motivation to be
healthy.
Beldin the Sorcerer
My GP can do it. We don't need a specialist here.
Hate those wires hooked up to my chest.
That's not an ultrasound, of course, so I have no idea what you're really
talking about. Ultra's are used to detect clots and tumors and stuff (as
well as the obvious look at developing fetuses)
Herself had one on her thyroid and now needs a biopsy.
>
>
>
FL Turbo
It's too bad you have to wait until April for an EKG and an
ultrasound.
If you had gone to a modern American facility, you could have had
those tests done either the same day or the very next day.
But then, if you're satisfied with the level of health care you are
getting, everything is OK.
BillB
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hn4h1a$fps$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
?
> I get a heart check as part of my physical, dependent on my age.
> My GP can do it. We don't need a specialist here.
> Hate those wires hooked up to my chest.
I think you are talking about an electrocardiogram. You don't even
need to go to a doctor to get those here. I noticed the lab where I
got my blood test had a room set up for ECGs. From what I understand,
you get a limited amount of information from them compared to the more
advanced tests. According to wiki:
"The ECG cannot reliably measure the pumping ability of the heart, for
which ultrasound-based (echocardiography) or nuclear medicine tests
are used."
> That's not an ultrasound, of course, so I have no idea what you're
> really talking about. Ultra's are used to detect clots and tumors
> and stuff (as well as the obvious look at developing fetuses)
I am talking about an echocardiogram (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echocardiogram ) and a nuclear heart
scan
( http://www.topbits.com/how-a-nuclear-heart-scan-works.html ). I'm
disappointed, Beldin. You don't seem very up-to-date on your
cardiology.
> Herself had one on her thyroid and now needs a biopsy.
I do hope things work out well for her. God knows she's had enough
tough breaks.
BillB
"FL Turbo" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message
news:d4ibp51j3tsfo7ddb...@4ax.com...
> It's too bad you have to wait until April for an EKG and an
> ultrasound.
Actually, it was zero wait for the nuclear heart scan, and 7 weeks for
the echocardiogram. I have had to get regular abdominal ultrasounds
before, and there was no wait for those. I think an echocardiogram
might be a little more complicated.
Neither are emergency tests. Neither will cost me one penny
out-of-pocket. Most importantly, no matter what they find or have to
do, there is a ~0% chance I will go bankrupt over it. That is
extremely important to me.
> If you had gone to a modern American facility, you could have had
> those tests done either the same day or the very next day.
Only because I would be out-bidding someone who has less money than
me, but needs it more urgently. That's ok; I can wait. Ever heard of
karma?
Anyway, I am not convinced you would get these tests "the next day" in
the US, or why that would be important to you.
> But then, if you're satisfied with the level of health care you are
> getting, everything is OK.
100% satisfied.
Beldin the Sorcerer
>
>
> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hn4h1a$fps$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> ?
>> I get a heart check as part of my physical, dependent on my age.
>> My GP can do it. We don't need a specialist here.
>> Hate those wires hooked up to my chest.
>
> I think you are talking about an electrocardiogram. You don't even need to
> go to a doctor to get those here. I noticed the lab where I got my blood
> test had a room set up for ECGs. From what I understand, you get a limited
> amount of information from them compared to the more advanced tests.
> According to wiki:
>
> "The ECG cannot reliably measure the pumping ability of the heart, for
> which ultrasound-based (echocardiography) or nuclear medicine tests are
> used."
>
>> That's not an ultrasound, of course, so I have no idea what you're really
>> talking about. Ultra's are used to detect clots and tumors and stuff (as
>> well as the obvious look at developing fetuses)
>
> I am talking about an echocardiogram (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echocardiogram ) and a nuclear heart scan
> ( http://www.topbits.com/how-a-nuclear-heart-scan-works.html ). I'm
> disappointed, Beldin. You don't seem very up-to-date on your cardiology.
When it becomes important, my doc will tell me.
I suspect you're older than I.
>
>> Herself had one on her thyroid and now needs a biopsy.
>
> I do hope things work out well for her. God knows she's had enough tough
> breaks.
Yes. It's been a rough year plus.
She needs to see her Onchologist or her Neurochronologist to schedule the
biopsy.
A coworker's wife had to have her thyroid out because of this last year, and
made a full recovery rather quickly, so at least it's not as bad as the lung
lobe removal last year. If it indeed is a cancerous tumor.
>
Pepe Papon
wrote:
Yeah, it sure does suck to have to wait 7 weeks for maintenance-type
tests. Here in America, I only had to wait 3 months to see a
specialist and then another 2 months to schedule the actual test.
Good thing health insurance is the US costs far more than those
suckers in Canada pay.
--
~ Seth Jackson
MySpace URL - http://www.myspace.com/sethjacksonsong
Songwriting and Music Business Info: http://www.sethjackson.net
Beldin the Sorcerer
stupidity.
Look at these stats.
Health care spending
Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of GDP,
second highest to East Timor (Timor-Leste) among all United Nations member
nations.[7] The Health and Human Services Department expects that the health
share of GDP will continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5
percent of GDP by 2017.[33][34] Of each dollar spent on health care in the
United States 31% goes to hospital care, 21% goes to physician services, 10%
to pharmaceuticals, 8% to nursing homes, 7% to administrative costs, and 23%
to all other categories (diagnostic laboratory services, pharmacies, medical
device manufacturers, etc.[28]
7% administrative is the only area you'd cut (and not completely) if the
government took over health care tomorrow and the rest of it stayed the
same.
We spend a much smaller percentage on drugs, despite paying higher prices
than they do.
Obvious conclusion : Our doctors make more money than theirs do.
You want to cut doctor's pay? You expect the quality of care not to decline?
"Pepe Papon" <hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:v7qbp592kui06u6u3...@4ax.com...
BillB
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hn4lmj$sbp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I do hope things work out well for her. God knows she's had enough
>> tough breaks.
> Yes. It's been a rough year plus.
> She needs to see her Onchologist or her Neurochronologist to
> schedule the biopsy.
I was actually talking about getting stuck with you, but cancer is
pretty rough too.
Beldin the Sorcerer
I've pointed that out to her numerous times, and she still thinks she's
lucky to have me.
Must be that American mentality for suffering.
That, and I'm highly skilled in the sack
>
>
mo_charles
>
> Your reports are pretty fun. It reminds me of Sicko, where Roger Moore shows
> a bunch of Americans complaining about how we wouldn't want Canadian
> healthcare and how even Canadians don't like it. Then he goes to Canada and
> can't find a single person who didn't like it. The stories of Canadians that
> came to America and had emergency medical problems that cost them tens of
> thousands of dollars for being on the wrong side of the border were
> horrifying. One guy had to drive himself back over the border with a torn
> muscle to save something like $27,000.
he couldn't find a single person who didn't like canadian healthcare? all
he could find were people who drove themselves to near death to get back
to the canadian system? that's amazing!
> I *want* healthcare reform, but I want the free and universal type that
> Canada, Britain and France have. But that would cut out the insurance
> companies and they won't allow it. Our government is not representing the
> people. It is representing those with money, who get it by fleecing the
> people. Our corrupt form of money politics has become a disgrace to
> democracy. How can we even describe ourselves as one anymore?
BUY INSURANCE STOCKS. if the insurance companies are cleaning up like
idiots on the left want you to believe, CLEAN UP WITH THEM.
mo_charles
--------�
Beldin the Sorcerer
> When I got home I went straight to the pharmacy across the street to
> fill my prescription. It was obviously very busy in there, with at
> least five pharmacists and technicians working diligently in the back.
> "Can you give us 30 minutes?", she asks apologetically. Not a problem.
> I just went home and played some poker for an hour. When I went back
> my prescription was ready. The pharmacy technician asked me if I had
> ever taken that medication before, and when I said no, she called the
> pharmacist out of the back to go over all the details with me. Total
> out of pocket cost of medication and professional consultation: zero.
Now hold on a bit there, Billie boy.
Those of us who can read know that drugs require PRIVATE insurance.
What's that running you these days?
Or are you so old it doesn't matter?
BillB
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hn5egk$2qd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
My wife has a heavy duty supplemental plan through her work that
covers us both for everything under the sun. The biggest cost
component in her plan is disability insurance, but it's great coverage
to have. The cost of the prescription component is minor, even though
it's 100% cost coverage. Check Pacific Blue Cross website. They have
off the shelf drug plans for the public covering 80% of drug costs
starting at $11/mo for a single. Drugs are cheap in Canada.
Also, the B.C. Pharmacare plan helps all residents pay for drugs.
There is no cost to enroll in Pharmacare. Essentially, if you have a
family income over 30k, once your drug costs reach 3% of family
income, Pharmacare covers 70%. Once your drug costs reach 4% of family
income, the government picks up 100%. Seems fair, doesn't it?
Beldin the Sorcerer
>
>
> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hn5egk$2qd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote in message
>> news:hmri7n$e21$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> When I got home I went straight to the pharmacy across the street to
>>> fill my prescription. It was obviously very busy in there, with at
>>> least five pharmacists and technicians working diligently in the back.
>>> "Can you give us 30 minutes?", she asks apologetically. Not a problem.
>>> I just went home and played some poker for an hour. When I went back
>>> my prescription was ready. The pharmacy technician asked me if I had
>>> ever taken that medication before, and when I said no, she called the
>>> pharmacist out of the back to go over all the details with me. Total
>>> out of pocket cost of medication and professional consultation: zero.
>>
>> Now hold on a bit there, Billie boy.
>>
>> Those of us who can read know that drugs require PRIVATE insurance.
>>
>> What's that running you these days?
>>
>> Or are you so old it doesn't matter?
>
> My wife has a heavy duty supplemental plan through her work that covers us
> both for everything under the sun. The biggest cost component in her plan
> is disability insurance, but it's great coverage to have. The cost of the
> prescription component is minor, even though it's 100% cost coverage.
> Check Pacific Blue Cross website. They have off the shelf drug plans for
> the public covering 80% of drug costs starting at $11/mo for a single.
> Drugs are cheap in Canada.
Well, Wal-Mart in the US has generics at $4 a month or $10 for 3 months.
That's what I pay
>
> Also, the B.C. Pharmacare plan helps all residents pay for drugs. There is
> no cost to enroll in Pharmacare. Essentially, if you have a family income
> over 30k, once your drug costs reach 3% of family income, Pharmacare
> covers 70%. Once your drug costs reach 4% of family income, the government
> picks up 100%. Seems fair, doesn't it?
Depends how sick you are.
I never spend $1800 a year on my scrips, so I'd be getting ripped off big
time.
Hell, I don't spend $1800 a year on my health insurance.
3% of income is a lot in my case, and by Massachusetts standards, I'm not
rich.
Most families in Massachusetts are $100k plus... but the cost of living here
is high.
So you want them to pay 3k out of pocket to say hello.
Even capped at $3300.
At my work, family HEALTH insurance runs less than that.
>
>
>
Jerry Sturdivant
"Pepe Papon" <hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:v7qbp592kui06u6u3...@4ax.com...
Before my back surgery; they made a test, then said I had to wait 4-months
before seeing the doctor. (I raised hell and they moved it up).
But these are all whimpers and cries from those that are afraid to admit the
Canada and most European country have a much better healthcare system than
we do. It's called, regurgitating the Republican Politicians' cool aid (at
the same time we government employees have better healthcare than they do).
Jerry (with government healthcare) 'n Vegas
David Monaghan
>It's too bad you have to wait until April for an EKG and an
>ultrasound.
I imagine an ECG (EKG) would have been done more or less instantaneously,
but there's been a problem with Technetium based nuclear medicine tests in
the US (and Canada) for some time due to the Canadian reactor shutdown for
maintenance (the USA doesn't have a domestic source).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Research_Universal_Reactor
DaveM
John_Brian_K
> This shocking series of reports will be an undercover, hard-hitting,
> no-punches-pulled expos� on the socialist Canadian health care system,
> from the inside, from the perspective of a patient (me).
<Snip a long ass story about how great the Canadian Health system is>
I have a similar story, but I will not take as long to get there as you
did. I went in for a complete check up myself a couple months ago. Blood
analysis, urine analysis, cholesterol check you name it I had it done.
15.00 bucks for that complete check up (and I didn't have to pay to park!)
I go back a month or so later to discuss all the findings with my VERY
through and VERY good doctor. Everything is great John you have no
problems, but your Vitamin D is a little low because you live in Michigan
and just about everyone has a vitamin D deficiency in Michigan, but your
is even lower than normal. Go get some Vitamin D supplements and take
those to help balance it out.
15.00 bucks for that visit. So I go to the pharmacy and talk to a
certified pharmacist and points me in the right direction and I see it is
buy one get one free day! Awesome 2 bottles of Vitamin D for the price of
one. 9.00 for the 2 bottles.
39.00 for 2 visits and the vitamins I need to make it all better.
But wait! There is more. I was contacted about another issue I 'MAY'
have a problem with so I need to see a specialist about it! Oh noes!
Well 2 appointments later with that specialist and things are pretty much
back to normal. I didn't pay ANYTHING to see the specialist and did end
up paying 5.00 for a script.
ALL of this was done in accordance with my schedule.
44.00! Almost broke the bank with that one. Glad I had a savings account
to see a Dr twice and a specialist twice and get medication for my issues!
Whew!
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
_______________________________________________________________________�
John_Brian_K
> process of killing yet another friend of mine. diagnosis: lung
> cancer...stage 4. had a year of CHEMO..all different kinds..radiating
> beyond belief. results: one lung TOTALLY non functioning..tumor has
> GROWN.
> well with that success...guess what's next. a PILL that cost $4000/month.
> lovely.
>
> his great HMO insurance will cover half that pill cost. oh happy
> days...now just $2000/month.
Sorry to hear about your friend Mary, but Stage 4 LC is fatal and not a
hell of a lot can be done about it. Did they get regular check ups and
the beginnings stages of the LC missed? Once it reaches stage 4 it is a
tough thing to combat.
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
________________________________________________________________________�
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Mrs Iris Mike
> On Mar 5 2010 1:23 PM, BillB wrote:
>
> > This shocking series of reports will be an undercover, hard-hitting,
There you go! You have found the solution to the entire medical
insurance problem. If everyone had your insurance we would all be
shiney happy and healthy. And we wouldn't have to pay for parking. So
if you are proposing we all have the same medical insurance as you,
well then, I second the motion. All those in favor raise their hand.
Mrs Iris Mike
wrote:
> Pepe has me killfiled, because he's basically a chickenshit and likes his
> stupidity.
>
> Look at these stats.
>
> Health care spending
>
> Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of GDP,
> second highest to East Timor (Timor-Leste) among all United Nations member
> nations.[7] The Health and Human Services Department expects that the health
> share of GDP will continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5
> percent of GDP by 2017.[33][34] Of each dollar spent on health care in the
> United States 31% goes to hospital care, 21% goes to physician services, 10%
> to pharmaceuticals, 8% to nursing homes, 7% to administrative costs, and 23%
> to all other categories (diagnostic laboratory services, pharmacies, medical
> device manufacturers, etc.[28]
>
> 7% administrative is the only area you'd cut (and not completely) if the
> government took over health care tomorrow and the rest of it stayed the
> same.
>
> We spend a much smaller percentage on drugs, despite paying higher prices
> than they do.
>
> Obvious conclusion : Our doctors make more money than theirs do.
>
> You want to cut doctor's pay? You expect the quality of care not to decline?
>
more personally rewarding. That way we'd get doctors who weren't just
in it for the money.
BTW, there is basicly no difference in US doctor pay compared to
Canadians'.
http://student.pnhp.org/content/what_about_physician_salaries.php
You have broken down the cost of health care as percent of GDP and
then further broke it down as a percent of spending. It would be nice
if you were to cite the site so that I could compare the numbers and
be assured you are not just pulling them out of your ass.
But, let me throw the ball back in your court. Suppose (just suppose)
we could get the nearly the same medical results without the hospitals
and medications and the highly trained doctors. If we could get a
healthy population for just a few hundred dollars per person, do you
think the insurance companies would get behind it? Of course not. No
or little money spent means little or no profit to be made. More money
spent means more profit. The for profit model does not profit from
wellness, only from sickness.
There are two ways to reduce the amount of money spent on health
care. One is to reduce the amount of care given to patients in their
last year of life. A disportionate amount of money is spent on
terminal patients in their last year and especially in their last
month. We are talking about very old people and people with chronic
illness. If we spent research money into better predicting death, a
great amount of money could be spent elsewhere to ensure a healthy
population. Hospice care costs are a fraction of the cost of aggresive
treatment, with the result of giving meaning to a person's death
surrounded by family in a humane surrounding.
The second way to reduce medical care is to practice prevenative
medicine. As it is today, there is no profit in keeping people
healthy. In a non-profit system the emphasis is to keep the population
healthy.
There are two ways of living a lifetime. One way is that the older
one gets, the more sickly that person becomes. As the years advance
the visits to the doctors increase, the health slowly deteriates, and
the person feels worse each day. The other way is that a person is
basicly healthy up until they die. Senior years can be active and
enjoyable if the previous years were dedicated to a healthy lifesyle.
John_Brian_K
> insurance problem. If everyone had your insurance we would all be
> shiney happy and healthy. And we wouldn't have to pay for parking. So
> if you are proposing we all have the same medical insurance as you,
> well then, I second the motion. All those in favor raise their hand.
I have insurance through my work. Those who do not have good insurance
get the care they need and get Medicare/Medicaid leans placed against
them. I see these people EVERY day we have to pay those leans before we
can dish out settlements.
I worked hard to get where I am at. If you do not have good insurance, go
out and work for it. If you cannot work for it when you have medical
issues go to a clinic or a hospital where they cannot refuse you. They
will put leans on you, but if you have no money they have nothing to take
right?
I do not care about people who do not have health insurance. It is not my
responsibility to take care of people who do not have health insurance and
if I was without (which I was for a fairly long time) insurance I wouldn't
expect handouts.
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
-------�
mo_charles
> > insurance problem. If everyone had your insurance we would all be
> > shiney happy and healthy. And we wouldn't have to pay for parking. So
> > if you are proposing we all have the same medical insurance as you,
> > well then, I second the motion. All those in favor raise their hand.
>
> I have insurance through my work. Those who do not have good insurance
> get the care they need and get Medicare/Medicaid leans placed against
> them. I see these people EVERY day we have to pay those leans before we
> can dish out settlements.
>
> I worked hard to get where I am at. If you do not have good insurance, go
> out and work for it. If you cannot work for it when you have medical
> issues go to a clinic or a hospital where they cannot refuse you. They
> will put leans on you, but if you have no money they have nothing to take
> right?
>
> I do not care about people who do not have health insurance. It is not my
> responsibility to take care of people who do not have health insurance and
> if I was without (which I was for a fairly long time) insurance I wouldn't
> expect handouts.
i think the government should fleece everybody with insurance. why should
responsible souls be the only ones bled dry?
mo_charles
----�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
Mrs Iris Mike
Leans? What the hell is that? Do you mean lien? Then how the hell can
I think you are so worth what you think you are?
Hospitals refuse care all the time. They need only to stabilize you.
They don't need to do diagnostics, or prescribe medications. They can
give you a blanket, call a taxi and send you to a homeless shelter.
Life is good when you are up in the castle, looking down the world is
clean and orderly. But get down to where the people are living and the
view changes.
I'd invite you to do a little volunteer work at a public hospital. I
worked for three years at Los Angeles Gen Hospital, and it sure as
hell woke me up as to what the difference is between the haves and the
have nots. I challange you to do just a fraction of that and not be
influenced.
I hope you also keep in mind that your comfy all expense paid visit
to the doctor could change pretty darn quick. We are not fully in
charge of our destiny, things happen. I cared for lawyers and bankers
and celeberties who for each their own reason found themselves having
to go to a public hospital and suffer the indignities.
As far as you not taking handouts, let us see. Do you have a
mortgage? Then give back your mortgage deduction. Do you work for a
company that has government contracts, then tell your supervisor
you'll no longer feast at the government trough. Did you attend a
government run school? Even universities benifit from government
monies, pay us back in full. Did your medications come about from
government reseach grants, then please start paying that back. Oh yes,
did the 10% unemployed or 25% underemployed, or the 10's of millions
living in poverty burn down you house and place of buisness, then you
owe them something for that. How about all that clean air you breathe,
are you paying the government back for that? You may say you're saying
paying your fair share, but there are others who may say you are not.
You are like a poker player who wins a tournament and says it was all
due to his superior poker playing ability, forgetting the fact that
luck had much to do with it. And not even considering the casino that
allowed for a safe enviorment in which to play or the dealers who did
not cheat him, or the audience that didn't have concealed weapons to
rob him. Life is like that.
Further, I am not of the have not branch of life. I've worked hard,
used my superior abilities, and thanked the gods for my uncanny luck
to be in the situatuion where I am.
Abbey Johnsson
> >
> Leans? What the hell is that? Do you mean lien? Then how the hell can
> I think you are so worth what you think you are?
lol. that's too funny. and the guy works with that word everyday! he's
dumb as a rock. las vegas is gonna chew him up and spit him out.
---�
BillB
"John_Brian_K" <a7e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:v8gi67x...@recgroups.com...
> I worked hard to get where I am at. If you do not have good
> insurance, go
> out and work for it. If you cannot work for it when you have
> medical
> issues go to a clinic or a hospital where they cannot refuse you.
> They
> will put leans on you, but if you have no money they have nothing to
> take
> right?
Didn't you say you worked at a law firm?
Mrs Iris Mike
Life may yet chew him up. I just hope he has the same 'master of his
destiny' attitude when his job is out sourced. Here's a article about
routine law work going overseas to ensure greater profits,
http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/news/economy/lawyer_outsourcing/
Mrs Iris Mike
Wait, wait wait! I can't help but think about John Brian K enjoying a
heaping helping of comuppence, hat in hand looking for another job.
Prospective employer, "You say your job was outsourced to India for
increased profitability? Hmmmm... Sorry, I think the position might be
filled."
Edward A. Falk
FL Turbo <SJ...@Inc.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:45:28 -0800, "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote:
>
>If you had gone to a modern American facility, you could have had
>those tests done either the same day or the very next day.
Only if you're rich or it's an emergency.
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
John_Brian_K
> I think you are so worth what you think you are?
Alright so I fucking spelled lien wrong. Soo me! lol
> Hospitals refuse care all the time. They need only to stabilize you.
> They don't need to do diagnostics, or prescribe medications. They can
> give you a blanket, call a taxi and send you to a homeless shelter.
Yeah my wife is a nurse I know.
> Life is good when you are up in the castle, looking down the world is
> clean and orderly. But get down to where the people are living and the
> view changes.
I live in the Detroit, MI area. I grew up in Detroit.
> I'd invite you to do a little volunteer work at a public hospital. I
> worked for three years at Los Angeles Gen Hospital, and it sure as
> hell woke me up as to what the difference is between the haves and the
> have nots. I challange you to do just a fraction of that and not be
> influenced.
I talk with my wife daily about what happens in hospitals. She used to
work in the ER.
> I hope you also keep in mind that your comfy all expense paid visit
> to the doctor could change pretty darn quick. We are not fully in
> charge of our destiny, things happen. I cared for lawyers and bankers
> and celeberties who for each their own reason found themselves having
> to go to a public hospital and suffer the indignities.
Those would be stupid people IMO. Look shit happens to everyone I get it.
If you are a celebrity, banker, lawyer who makes a ton of money (I am not
an attorney and do not make a 'ton of money' [and yes I realize this is
relative], but I personally consider a mil to 2 mil dollars a 'ton of
money' with that amount of money I could literally stop working and invest
in low risk stock and live off the interest and maintain my current
lifestyle.)
> As far as you not taking handouts, let us see. Do you have a
> mortgage? Then give back your mortgage deduction.
I 'qualified' for my mortgage by having the quality credit it takes and
the income to justify that mortgage.
> Do you work for a
> company that has government contracts, then tell your supervisor
> you'll no longer feast at the government trough.
No
> Did you attend a
> government run school? Even universities benifit from government
> monies, pay us back in full.
No, but I do have student loans that I pay close to mortgage payment
amount prices to pay back. 'You' are getting your money back as the terms
of the loans dictated.
> Did your medications come about from
> government reseach grants, then please start paying that back.
I have worked since I was 15. My taxes pay for all that. You realize
that right?
> Oh yes,
> did the 10% unemployed or 25% underemployed, or the 10's of millions
> living in poverty burn down you house and place of buisness, then you
> owe them something for that.
I am not sure what this statement means. Noone burned my house down. Is
that what you are asking? And IF someone did I have insurance for that.
And yes I pay for that insurance. Are you seeing a trend here? I am
using the word 'pay' and 'paid' and 'paying' alot.
> How about all that clean air you breathe,
> are you paying the government back for that? You may say you're saying
> paying your fair share, but there are others who may say you are not.
Uhhh what? The air I breathe? Plus I live in the outskirts of Detroit.
The air is not that clean.
> You are like a poker player who wins a tournament and says it was all
> due to his superior poker playing ability, forgetting the fact that
> luck had much to do with it. And not even considering the casino that
> allowed for a safe environment in which to play or the dealers who did
> not cheat him, or the audience that didn't have concealed weapons to
> rob him. Life is like that.
Luck is a part of poker.
> Further, I am not of the have not branch of life. I've worked hard,
> used my superior abilities, and thanked the gods for my uncanny luck
> to be in the situation where I am.
You call it luck I call it hard work and perseverance.
And if you feel so bad about all these people not having top notch medical
care. How about you go give someone YOUR hard earned money so they can
afford it.
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
_____________________________________________________________________�
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
John_Brian_K
> heaping helping of comuppence, hat in hand looking for another job.
> Prospective employer, "You say your job was outsourced to India for
> increased profitability? Hmmmm... Sorry, I think the position might be
> filled."
I had that comeuppance when I was younger. I lose my job now. I will do
my best, but I will be damned if I am going to go crying to the government
to bail my ass out.
Fucking whiners.
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
-----�
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
John_Brian_K
> destiny' attitude when his job is out sourced. Here's a article about
> routine law work going overseas to ensure greater profits,
> http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/news/economy/lawyer_outsourcing/
I have not always been fortunate. I KNOW what it is like to get fucked in
the proverbial ass. I STILL feel the same.
Get a fucking job and stop crying/whining and asking for 'your' government
to take care of your dumb ass.
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
______________________________________________________________________�
John_Brian_K
> dumb as a rock. las vegas is gonna chew him up and spit him out.
shut up slut.
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
-------�
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
John_Brian_K
You realize that 90% of law firms have secretaries to fix little fuck ups
like this in dictation right? This is a fucking degenerate news group
full of cheaters, liars and scum bags and you think I am worried about my
fucking grammar?
Let me guess you were one of the people sticking up for Davoice right?
==========================================
I CAN make this shit up!
==============================
JBK
_____________________________________________________________________�
Mrs Iris Mike
Bravado now but...
Let's say your wife gets smart, leaves you for a nice doctor. You
lose your job, you might start drinking, but being how you're such an
ubermench, you stay sober through it all. Then you notice a lump,
doctor says its cancer. Your COBRA insurance runs out (government
program if you want to split hairs), and your unemployement runs out
it a couple of months, excepting if you can't work you can't collect.
Now what ya gonna do? It takes months to get medicaid. No doctor wants
to treat you because you are broke. I just hope act as you talk, but
who knows? Thing is about poor people, they don't post on the
internet, and they aren't seen so much on TV.
Mrs Iris Mike
No I don't realize that.
>
> > Oh yes,
> > did the 10% unemployed or 25% underemployed, or the 10's of millions
> > living in poverty burn down you house and place of buisness, then you
> > owe them something for that.
>
> I am not sure what this statement means. Noone burned my house down. Is
> that what you are asking? And IF someone did I have insurance for that.
> And yes I pay for that insurance. Are you seeing a trend here? I am
> using the word 'pay' and 'paid' and 'paying' alot.
Plenty of people were happy under British rule. Most were satisfied.
It only takes a small minority to cause revolution.
One of the fouding fathers said, "We must all hang together, or
assuredly we shall all hang separately." We kind of all are into this
together.
>
> > How about all that clean air you breathe,
> > are you paying the government back for that? You may say you're saying
> > paying your fair share, but there are others who may say you are not.
>
> Uhhh what? The air I breathe? Plus I live in the outskirts of Detroit.
> The air is not that clean.
It is cleaner than it would be without government intervention. An
intervention that treats the air as a commonwealth, to be protected
for everyone.
>
> > You are like a poker player who wins a tournament and says it was all
> > due to his superior poker playing ability, forgetting the fact that
> > luck had much to do with it. And not even considering the casino that
> > allowed for a safe environment in which to play or the dealers who did
> > not cheat him, or the audience that didn't have concealed weapons to
> > rob him. Life is like that.
>
> Luck is a part of poker.
So is the infrastucture that allows a fair contest. No one
accomplishes anything without the help of others.
>
> > Further, I am not of the have not branch of life. I've worked hard,
> > used my superior abilities, and thanked the gods for my uncanny luck
> > to be in the situation where I am.
>
> You call it luck I call it hard work and perseverance.
See, and this is why you will never learn. You think everything is
because of your superior efforts. I wonder what your parents think?
>
> And if you feel so bad about all these people not having top notch medical
> care. How about you go give someone YOUR hard earned money so they can
> afford it.
Look do-dah, I have money, I pay taxes. Ihave no jealousy about
people getting health care, especially in a market where the sicker I
am the more the system profits. Not only do I pay my taxes, I do
donate time and money.
bub
<BeaF...@msn.com> wrote:
>Now what ya gonna do?
American Cancer Society
The American Cancer Society has several programs to help cancer
patients with financial assistance. The Hope Lodge program provides
free temporary housing for cancer patients in treatment. The Road to
Recovery provides free transportation for cancer patients within their
community.
Hill-Burton Hospital Program
Hospitals that receive construction funds from the federal government
must provide some services to cancer patients who can�t afford to pay
for their care. Approximately 300 hospitals take part in this program
CancerCare
CancerCare provides grants to help cancer patients cover the cost of
cancer treatment expenses, but they also provide financial aid to help
patients pay for the additional childcare or home care expenses
incurred during therapy.
Catholic Charities USA
Catholic Charities USA serves people of all faiths by providing
emergency health care, housing, and other services to those in need.
Assistance can include rent or mortgage assistance, medical supplies,
help with utility bills, and transportation to medical appointments.
NeedyMeds
NeedyMeds simplifies the process of exploring the patient assistance
programs provided by drug manufacturers, as well as government drug
programs and discount drug cards. You can search the NeedyMeds
database for thousands of brand name and generic drugs available free
or at a reduced cost.
medicaid...medicare if you're disabled...
family, friends....
Cancer and other seriously ill patients may now obtain funds by
selling or taking loans against expensive or unwanted life insurance
policies or annuities - funds not normally available until after
death.
http://www.findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
"Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no
health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income.
Health centers provide
checkups when you're well
treatment when you're sick
complete care when you're pregnant
immunizations and checkups for your children
dental care and prescription drugs for your family "
etc....etc....
>Thing is about poor people,
is that life ain't fair
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Mrs Iris Mike" <BeaF...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:cca4b8ea-ac22-490e...@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
***
Wikipedia
***
But, let me throw the ball back in your court. Suppose (just suppose)
we could get the nearly the same medical results without the hospitals
and medications and the highly trained doctors. If we could get a
healthy population for just a few hundred dollars per person, do you
think the insurance companies would get behind it? Of course not. No
or little money spent means little or no profit to be made. More money
spent means more profit. The for profit model does not profit from
wellness, only from sickness.
***
Insurance companies can sell insurance for anything.
Most people are underinsured. They don't need to insure health care.
They cure every illness tomorrow, you'll still need insurance.
***
There are two ways to reduce the amount of money spent on health
care. One is to reduce the amount of care given to patients in their
last year of life. A disportionate amount of money is spent on
terminal patients in their last year and especially in their last
month. We are talking about very old people and people with chronic
illness. If we spent research money into better predicting death, a
great amount of money could be spent elsewhere to ensure a healthy
population. Hospice care costs are a fraction of the cost of aggresive
treatment, with the result of giving meaning to a person's death
surrounded by family in a humane surrounding.
***
I don't wanna die at all.
Cure illnesses, grow replacement organs.
Keep people alive and functional longer.
***
The second way to reduce medical care is to practice prevenative
medicine. As it is today, there is no profit in keeping people
healthy. In a non-profit system the emphasis is to keep the population
healthy.
***
That's wrong.
There's a reason most health plans offer health club reinbursement.
There's LOADS of profit in keeping your clients healthy. You pay out less
and collect the same premiums.
***
There are two ways of living a lifetime. One way is that the older
one gets, the more sickly that person becomes. As the years advance
the visits to the doctors increase, the health slowly deteriates, and
the person feels worse each day. The other way is that a person is
basicly healthy up until they die. Senior years can be active and
enjoyable if the previous years were dedicated to a healthy lifesyle.
***
I'm a fan of putting off dying
Mrs Iris Mike
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:03:50 -0800 (PST), Mrs Iris Mike
>
So we got the haves, those who need to beg and those too proud to beg.
All you've pointed out is another subset of people. Let us just say
that basic medical care in an inalienable right and then we can all go
about our buisness.
Or better yet, let us fund a program that cuts through the BS that
modern medicine is. How much money is spent each year doing heart by-
pass surgery? Is their an increase in life expectancy from this
procedure? If not, then why do it? There are many procedures,
treatments and medicines that do not add value to life. There are also
many folk remedies that work but are not used because there is no
profit. That is where the money should be spent. Not advertising for
anti-depressant medications (side note, with all the medications
therapies and health care related to the treatment of depression, the
US has a suicide rate the same as India. How do we justify the money
spent on that one condition?).
bub
<BeaF...@msn.com> wrote:
>All you've pointed out is another subset of people.
all i did was point out options to your statement of "Now what ya
gonna do?"
>Let us just say that basic medical care in an inalienable right
i say food ...free food for everyone since you need food to be in good
health. and housing because you'll get sick if you have no shelter.
and it's not fair some people have house on the beach soooo everyone
gets a beach house unless of course you want to live in the mountains
so free mountain homes for them..gotta be fair free houses and all
nice houses cuz not fair some people have nicer homes than others
and the great thing about it is..IT'S FREE free homes free food ..hell
free cars. and everyone gets a $50,000 car cuz it wouldn't be fair if
one had a nicer car.
>How much money is spent each year doing heart by-
>pass surgery? Is their an increase in life expectancy from this
>procedure?
as a lpn you should know the answer is yes.
>There are also many folk remedies that work but are not used because there is no
>profit.
feel free to use
**snip insane prattle**
>How do we justify the money spent on that one condition?).
because it wouldn't be fair letting people be sad?
Pepe Papon
>Also, the B.C. Pharmacare plan helps all residents pay for drugs.
>There is no cost to enroll in Pharmacare. Essentially, if you have a
>family income over 30k, once your drug costs reach 3% of family
>income, Pharmacare covers 70%. Once your drug costs reach 4% of family
>income, the government picks up 100%. Seems fair, doesn't it?
B-b-b-but that's SOCIALIST!!!! Therefore, it's EVIL!
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Pepe Papon" <hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:1raep51g2mhpkg9ah...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 05:21:12 -0800, "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote:
>
>>Also, the B.C. Pharmacare plan helps all residents pay for drugs.
>>There is no cost to enroll in Pharmacare. Essentially, if you have a
>>family income over 30k, once your drug costs reach 3% of family
>>income, Pharmacare covers 70%. Once your drug costs reach 4% of family
>>income, the government picks up 100%. Seems fair, doesn't it?
>
> B-b-b-but that's SOCIALIST!!!! Therefore, it's EVIL!
It just isn't practical while people are selfish.
Dutch
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hn4usa$inh$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
> news:hn4tu1$geb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote
>>> Pepe has me killfiled, because he's basically a chickenshit and likes
>>> his stupidity.
>>
>> constantly.
> ***
> Dutch, you're the shithead talking about insurance company profits like
> they factor into the cost of health care.
That's an incredibly stupid comment.
>>> Look at these stats.
>>>
>>> Health care spending
>>>
>>>
>>> Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of
>>> GDP, second highest to East Timor (Timor-Leste) among all United Nations
>>> member nations.[7] The Health and Human Services Department expects that
>>> the health share of GDP will continue its historical upward trend,
>>> reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[33][34] Of each dollar spent on
>>> health care in the United States 31% goes to hospital care, 21% goes to
>>> physician services, 10% to pharmaceuticals, 8% to nursing homes, 7% to
>>> administrative costs, and 23% to all other categories (diagnostic
>>> laboratory services, pharmacies, medical device manufacturers, etc.[28]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 7% administrative is the only area you'd cut (and not completely) if the
>>> government took over health care tomorrow and the rest of it stayed the
>>> same.
>>
>> Where is the cost to run medical insurance companies in there? including
>> of course massive profits.
> See what a shit for brains you are?
> I made this point earlier.
> Either A) It's in there (and therefore it's administrative, and small) or
> B) It isn't, and the fact that it costs so much is APART from the the
> insurance companies.
And you're an idiot, I made that point earlier.
>
> You claim repeatedly, and are right now, that all we need to do is get rid
> of the insurance bastards.
> The numbers show you're just fucked in the head.
>
>
>
>>> We spend a much smaller percentage on drugs, despite paying higher
>>> prices than they do.
>>
>>> Obvious conclusion : Our doctors make more money than theirs do.
>>
>> >You want to cut doctor's pay? You expect the quality of care not to
>> >decline?
>
>
>>Doctors in Canada don't pay a fortune for malpractice insurance.
>
> No, they get a free pass, mostly, if they fuck up and kill someone.
All malpractice insurance does is drive up the cost of health care, it
doesn't save lives or improve care.
> However, eliminating malpractice insurance entirely is negligable.
>
> http://www.insurance-reform.org/pr/AIRhealthcosts.pdf
>
> Medical malpractice premiums are less than one percent of total U.S.
> health care costs.
>
> Dropping for nearly two decades, malpractice premiums have stayed below 1%
> of health care costs.
You say that like 1% of total health care costs is a small amount.
Clave
What *horseshit*.
In general terms:
Americans love their socialized military.
Americans love their socialized courts.
Americans love their socialized roads.
Americans love their socialized ports.
Americans love their socialized building codes.
Americans love their socialized sewers.
Americans love their socialized food and water standards.
Americans love their socialized law enforcement.
Americans love their socialized fire departments.
Americans love their socialized libraries.
Americans love their socialized national and local parks, usw.
Why aren't all the "selfish" people keeping all those socialist programs
from ruining America, Beldope?
Jim
Alim Nassor 1
Since he is a taxpayer, those are not handouts. They are part of the
system we all find ourselves in. Those people who do not and have not
payed taxes can call them handouts.
Oh yes,
> did the 10% unemployed or 25% underemployed, or the 10's of millions
> living in poverty burn down you house and place of buisness, then you
> owe them something for that. How about all that clean air you breathe,
> are you paying the government back for that? You may say you're saying
> paying your fair share, but there are others who may say you are not.
>
> You are like a poker player who wins a tournament and says it was all
> due to his superior poker playing ability, forgetting the fact that
> luck had much to do with it. And not even considering the casino that
> allowed for a safe enviorment in which to play or the dealers who did
> not cheat him, or the audience that didn't have concealed weapons to
> rob him. Life is like that.
>
> Further, I am not of the have not branch of life. I've worked hard,
> used my superior abilities, and thanked the gods for my uncanny luck
> to be in the situatuion where I am.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Clave" <ClaviusNo...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:hn7dp5$41g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hn7cb9$ti2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Pepe Papon" <hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:1raep51g2mhpkg9ah...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 05:21:12 -0800, "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Also, the B.C. Pharmacare plan helps all residents pay for drugs.
>>>>There is no cost to enroll in Pharmacare. Essentially, if you have a
>>>>family income over 30k, once your drug costs reach 3% of family
>>>>income, Pharmacare covers 70%. Once your drug costs reach 4% of family
>>>>income, the government picks up 100%. Seems fair, doesn't it?
>>>
>>> B-b-b-but that's SOCIALIST!!!! Therefore, it's EVIL!
>>
>> Socialism isn't evil.
>> It just isn't practical while people are selfish.
>
> What *horseshit*.
>
> In general terms:
>
> Americans love their socialized military.
Military cannot protect people who pay, and let die people who don't.
Yet any number of people do NOT want to pay taxes for military spending.
That refusal shows that the military is NOT socialistic. It's not supported
by all for the benefit of all.
>
> Americans love their socialized courts.
No, most of them would rather pay someone (especially if it might help them
win)
>
> Americans love their socialized roads.
Roads aren't socialized.
Roads are build by workers who get paid to build them.
We don't all go build them together.
Jimbo, I suspect you are, in your typical shithead way, equating "paid for
with tax revenue" with "Socialism"
True socialism doesn't need taxes.
Socialism depends on everyone doing their part.
Most Americans would rather everyone ELSE go do their part.
So did most Russians.
Which is why communism failed there.
Jimbo, you ever grow a brain large enough to understand that socialism isn't
"government provided", it's "Provided by everyone working together", you may
be less of a moron.
Alim Nassor 1
> In article <d4ibp51j3tsfo7ddbmpfuj15qpdi3t2...@4ax.com>,
> FL Turbo <S...@Inc.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:45:28 -0800, "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote:
>
> >If you had gone to a modern American facility, you could have had
> >those tests done either the same day or the very next day.
>
> Only if you're rich or it's an emergency.
>
> --
> http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
LOL. I'm not rich and in several non emergency situations I have had
a MRI or X-ray done the same day. I had a nerve test done once, don't
remember what it was called, they stuck needles in my back and leg and
zapped me. I went to the doc because my foot was numb. I had the
test 2 days later.
bub
<BeaF...@msn.com> wrote:
>Not advertising for
>anti-depressant medications (side note, with all the medications
>therapies and health care related to the treatment of depression, the
>US has a suicide rate the same as India
"Suicide is becoming a leading cause of death in India and China. Both
the countries have the highest suicide rates in the world. This has
been based on WHO estimates of suicides in both the countries.
In China, for every 100,000 people 99 of them commit suicide annually.
In the case of India, it is 98 for every 100,00 population."
"A new six-year analysis in the American Journal of Preventive
Medicine found that the U.S. suicide rate rose to 11 per 100,000
people ."
Pepe Papon
>> You want to cut doctor's pay? You expect the quality of care not to
>> decline?
>
>
>Doctors in Canada don't pay a fortune for malpractice insurance.
In Japan, the government controls doctor pay very tightly. I don't
hear too many Japanese complaining about the quality of their care.
bub
<AlimN...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I had a nerve test done once, don't
>remember what it was called, they stuck needles in my back and leg and
>zapped me.
emg
Dutch
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hn7erm$87p$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Mrs Iris Mike
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 19:51:14 -0800 (PST), Mrs Iris Mike
>
Where are you getting these quotes? If you quote you have to cite.
Here's mine :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Now show me yours
Clave
>
> "Clave" <ClaviusNo...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:hn7dp5$41g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
The insurance part sure as fuck isn't, and that's what it's about.
Jim
Dutch
"Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hn7f15$90i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
> news:hn7do6$3r0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:hn4usa$inh$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hn4tu1$geb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote
>>>>> Pepe has me killfiled, because he's basically a chickenshit and likes
>>>>> his stupidity.
>>>>
>>>> You should be an authority on liking stupidity, you display it
>>>> constantly.
>>> ***
>>> Dutch, you're the shithead talking about insurance company profits like
>>> they factor into the cost of health care.
>>
>> That's an incredibly stupid comment.
> No, it's a completely accurate one.
> Go look at the factors they're showing for computing health care costs.
>
>>
>>
>>>>> Look at these stats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Health care spending
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16%
>>>>> of GDP, second highest to East Timor (Timor-Leste) among all United
>>>>> Nations member nations.[7] The Health and Human Services Department
>>>>> expects that the health share of GDP will continue its historical
>>>>> upward trend, reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[33][34] Of each
>>>>> dollar spent on health care in the United States 31% goes to hospital
>>>>> care, 21% goes to physician services, 10% to pharmaceuticals, 8% to
>>>>> nursing homes, 7% to administrative costs, and 23% to all other
>>>>> categories (diagnostic laboratory services, pharmacies, medical device
>>>>> manufacturers, etc.[28]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 7% administrative is the only area you'd cut (and not completely) if
>>>>> the government took over health care tomorrow and the rest of it
>>>>> stayed the same.
>>>>
>>>> Where is the cost to run medical insurance companies in there?
>>>> including of course massive profits.
>>> See what a shit for brains you are?
>>> I made this point earlier.
>>> Either A) It's in there (and therefore it's administrative, and small)
>>> or
>>> B) It isn't, and the fact that it costs so much is APART from the the
>>> insurance companies.
>>
>> And you're an idiot, I made that point earlier.
> No, moron, you didn't,
>
>>>
>>> You claim repeatedly, and are right now, that all we need to do is get
>>> rid of the insurance bastards.
>>> The numbers show you're just fucked in the head.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> We spend a much smaller percentage on drugs, despite paying higher
>>>>> prices than they do.
>>>>
>>>>> Obvious conclusion : Our doctors make more money than theirs do.
>>>>
>>>> >You want to cut doctor's pay? You expect the quality of care not to
>>>> >decline?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Doctors in Canada don't pay a fortune for malpractice insurance.
>>>
>>> No, they get a free pass, mostly, if they fuck up and kill someone.
>>
>> All malpractice insurance does is drive up the cost of health care, it
>> doesn't save lives or improve care.
> wrong.
> It provides incentive not to fuck up.
>>
>>> However, eliminating malpractice insurance entirely is negligable.
>>>
>>> http://www.insurance-reform.org/pr/AIRhealthcosts.pdf
>>>
>>> Medical malpractice premiums are less than one percent of total U.S.
>>> health care costs.
>>>
>>> Dropping for nearly two decades, malpractice premiums have stayed below
>>> 1% of health care costs.
>>
>> You say that like 1% of total health care costs is a small amount.
> Yeah, fuckhead.
>
> It is.
>
> If per capita costs are 7000 , then it saves 70 bucks.
>
> If we're spending twice as much as some people, we still have $3430 to go.
> It's negligable.
>
>>
>
>
Pepe Papon
Unemployment? What unemployment? JBK won't take no stinkin'
unemployment. He doesn't take handouts.
>Now what ya gonna do? It takes months to get medicaid. No doctor wants
>to treat you because you are broke. I just hope act as you talk, but
>who knows? Thing is about poor people, they don't post on the
>internet, and they aren't seen so much on TV.
--
Clave
>
> "Clave" <ClaviusNo...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:hn7dp5$41g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
<...>
>>> Socialism isn't evil.
>>> It just isn't practical while people are selfish.
>>
>> What *horseshit*.
>>
>> In general terms:
>>
>> Americans love their socialized military.
>
> Military cannot protect people who pay, and let die people who don't...
Which doesn't contradict the point at all, and neither does any of the
superfluous dreck I snipped there.
>> Americans love their socialized courts.
>
> No, most of them would rather pay someone (especially if it might help
> them win)
I didn't say attorneys, I said courts. People hate attorneys, but given the
choice between the socialized courts we have and no courts?
You really wanna go there?
>> Americans love their socialized roads.
>
> Roads aren't socialized.
The hell they aren't, you ignorant fuck.
With the exception of the rare toll road, funds to build them come from
collective taxation, and we all drive on them.
Here's what you had no reply to:
Americans love their socialized ports.
Americans love their socialized building codes.
Americans love their socialized sewers.
Americans love their socialized food and water standards.
Americans love their socialized law enforcement.
Americans love their socialized fire departments.
Americans love their socialized libraries.
Americans love their socialized national and local parks, usw.
And last but most definitely not least, the question you think
you can dodge,
Alim Nassor 1
need to check out your sentence above.
You keep saying bypass surgery has no increase in life expectancy, but
that is not the only goal. Relieving angina pain is one goal. And
there are contradictory studies about the life expectancy gains.
Someone with a 99% blockage has a very high risk of an infarction.
Doing a bypass may have an immediate benefit of up to 5 years before
he has issues more issues. Plavix and other drugs do not remove
plaque, they simply prevent clots from forming around them. A 99%
blockage causes more than just pain, it also causes shortness of
breath and a decreased quality of life. Improving any or all 3
conditions is probably seen as a great benefit to those who have had
the procedure. Are you relying on the study published in the NY Times
in 1988? Times have changed.
If not, then why do it? There are many procedures,
> treatments and medicines that do not add value to life. There are also
> many folk remedies that work but are not used because there is no
> profit. That is where the money should be spent. Not advertising for
> anti-depressant medications (side note, with all the medications
> therapies and health care related to the treatment of depression, the
> US has a suicide rate the same as India. How do we justify the money
> spent on that one condition?).- Hide quoted text -
bub
<BeaF...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Not advertising for
>anti-depressant medications (side note, with all the medications
>therapies and health care related to the treatment of depression, the
>US has a suicide rate the same as India.
if you quote you have to cite.
High Suicide Rate in India and China claims WHO
"Suicide is becoming a leading cause of death in India and China. Both
the countries have the highest suicide rates in the world. This has
been based on WHO estimates of suicides in both the countries.
In China, for every 100,000 people 99 of them commit suicide annually.
In the case of India, it is 98 for every 100,00 population."
http://in.ygoy.com/2008/09/11/high-suicide-rate-in-india-and-china-claims-who/
"A new six-year analysis in the American Journal of Preventive
Medicine found that the U.S. suicide rate rose to 11 per 100,000
people ."
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/21/science/sci-suicide21
bub
<AlimN...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Doing a bypass may have an immediate benefit of up to 5 years before
>he has issues more issues.
most studies show that it's 15 years before people ,if they're going
to do it. start, to show previous symptoms.
Clave
Yaknow, that's part of what makes him so goddamn cute.
Jim
Pepe Papon
<a7e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>> There you go! You have found the solution to the entire medical
>> insurance problem. If everyone had your insurance we would all be
>> shiney happy and healthy. And we wouldn't have to pay for parking. So
>> if you are proposing we all have the same medical insurance as you,
>> well then, I second the motion. All those in favor raise their hand.
>
>I have insurance through my work.
Why didn't you say so in the first place? As soon as everyone has
your job, there will be no more health care crisis.
>Those who do not have good insurance
>get the care they need and get Medicare/Medicaid leans placed against
>them. I see these people EVERY day we have to pay those leans before we
>can dish out settlements.
One would think that a guy who works with liens every day would
actually know how to spell the word.
>I worked hard to get where I am at. If you do not have good insurance, go
>out and work for it.
Damn! Why didn't all those uninsured people think of that? Maybe
you should be president instead of Obama. The nation's unemployment
rate is 10%, but you could fix that simply by instructing those
without jobs to go out and work. You sure know how to get to the
essence of a complex problem!
> If you cannot work for it when you have medical
>issues go to a clinic or a hospital where they cannot refuse you.
Which hospital or clinic is that?
>They
>will put leans on you, but if you have no money they have nothing to take
>right?
If someone has cancer, they can get free treatment? Have you alerted
the news media?
>I do not care about people who do not have health insurance.
I can absolutely believe this. "I've got mine, so screw everyone
else" is the basic principle of many conservatives.
> It is not my
>responsibility to take care of people who do not have health insurance and
>if I was without (which I was for a fairly long time) insurance I wouldn't
>expect handouts.
Could you try to use a more loaded word than "handouts"?
Pepe Papon
<a7e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>I personally consider a mil to 2 mil dollars a 'ton of
>money' with that amount of money I could literally stop working and invest
>in low risk stock and live off the interest and maintain my current
>lifestyle.)
Until you become seriously ill and are bankrupted by the cost of
treatment.
>> Did you attend a
>> government run school? Even universities benifit from government
>> monies, pay us back in full.
>
>No, but I do have student loans that I pay close to mortgage payment
>amount prices to pay back. 'You' are getting your money back as the terms
>of the loans dictated.
Are student loans not subsidized?
>> Did your medications come about from
>> government reseach grants, then please start paying that back.
>
>I have worked since I was 15. My taxes pay for all that. You realize
>that right?
Do you realize that taxes would pay for the proposed health care
reforms?
Pepe Papon
<a7e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>And if you feel so bad about all these people not having top notch medical
>care. How about you go give someone YOUR hard earned money so they can
>afford it.
It's called "voting for health care reform". My tax dollars would
help pay for it. And if it turned out that a tax increase were
required after all, I could live with it. Better than living with
the fear of losing my health insurance.
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Mrs Iris Mike" <BeaF...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:98dbe9a7-40ef-45ee...@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Now show me yours
***
Bea, China isn't on your list at all, and India's rate is from 1998
This is from 2004
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/15spec.htm
a.. Out of every three cases of suicide reported every 15 minutes in
India, one is committed by a youth in the age group of 15 to 29.
b.. In the Union Territory of Pondicherry, every month at least 15 youths
between the ages of 15 and 25 commit suicide.
c.. In 2002, there were 10,982 suicides in Tamil Nadu, 11,300 in Kerala,
10,934 in Karnataka, and 9,433 in Andhra Pradesh.
d.. In 2003, the largest number of farmers -- around 175 -- committed
suicide in Andhra Pradesh.
e.. Kerala, the country's first fully literate state, has the highest
number of suicides. Some 32 people commit suicide in Kerala every day.
The Lancet has published an authoritative study on suicides in southern
India in its April edition. The study says the suicide rates among young men
and women in southern India are the highest in the world.
The study conducted by the Vellore-based Christian Medical College on
teenagers in Tamil Nadu, especially in the Vellore region, found that the
average suicide rate for women is as high as 148 per 100,000, and 58 per
100,000 for men.
Worldwide, this rate is 14.5 per 100,000. Also, in the West, men are three
times more likely to commit suicide than women.
Beldin the Sorcerer
> I'm sorry, your stupidity is too profound for me to deal with.
>
Your inability to do math moreso.
Your myth of Insurance Companies driving the cost up is laughable given the
actual numbers.
Your failure to grasp that is pitiful
Mrs Iris Mike
> On Mar 10, 2:45 am, Mrs Iris Mike <BeaFor...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 9, 10:22 am, "John_Brian_K" <a7ec...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > There you go! You have found the solution to the entire medical
> > > > insurance problem. If everyone had your insurance we would all be
> > > > shiney happy and healthy. And we wouldn't have to pay for parking. So
> > > > if you are proposing we all have the same medical insurance as you,
> > > > well then, I second the motion. All those in favor raise their hand.
>
> > > get the care they need and get Medicare/Medicaid leans placed against
> > > them. I see these people EVERY day we have to pay those leans before we
> > > can dish out settlements.
>
> > > issues go to a clinic or a hospital where they cannot refuse you. They
> > > will put leans on you, but if you have no money they have nothing to take
> > > right?
>
> > > responsibility to take care of people who do not have health insurance and
> > > if I was without (which I was for a fairly long time) insurance I wouldn't
> > > expect handouts.
>
> > > I CAN make this shit up!
> > > ==============================
> > > JBK
>
> > > : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com
>
> > Leans? What the hell is that? Do you mean lien? Then how the hell can
> > I think you are so worth what you think you are?
>
> > Hospitals refuse care all the time. They need only to stabilize you.
> > They don't need to do diagnostics, or prescribe medications. They can
> > give you a blanket, call a taxi and send you to a homeless shelter.
>
> > Life is good when you are up in the castle, looking down the world is
> > clean and orderly. But get down to where the people are living and the
> > view changes.
>
> > I'd invite you to do a little volunteer work at a public hospital. I
> > worked for three years at Los Angeles Gen Hospital, and it sure as
> > hell woke me up as to what the difference is between the haves and the
> > have nots. I challange you to do just a fraction of that and not be
> > influenced.
>
> > I hope you also keep in mind that your comfy all expense paid visit
> > to the doctor could change pretty darn quick. We are not fully in
> > charge of our destiny, things happen. I cared for lawyers and bankers
> > and celeberties who for each their own reason found themselves having
> > to go to a public hospital and suffer the indignities.
>
> > As far as you not taking handouts, let us see. Do you have a
> > mortgage? Then give back your mortgage deduction. Do you work for a
> > company that has government contracts, then tell your supervisor
> > you'll no longer feast at the government trough. Did you attend a
> > government run school? Even universities benifit from government
> > government reseach grants, then please start paying that back.
>
> system we all find ourselves in. Those people who do not and have not
> payed taxes can call them handouts.
>
> Oh yes,
So if I pay a nickle in taxes and I get all kinds of benifits
including free vacations, spa treatments and limo rides, those are not
handouts, yet if I pay no taxes, then a crust of bread is considered a
handout?
I am saying that there is no one paying the full true cost for
anything. Humanity is a cooperative venture. We all build atop those
who came before us and wil have others stand on our shoulders, not
because they accomplished or paid for the privilege, but rather
because we have a pact we our fellow humans.
I read that early man required less than four hours of labor per day.
It that four hour work day a man could gather enough to eat, clothe
and house himself, have enough leftover to attract a mate, raise a
family and make art. People cooperated, shared information, and cared
for each other. My birthright (and every other human's) is to be able
to clothe, feed, house and recieve care from the community. If you
want a fast car, a big TV, a house at the beach and all those other
things, that is the rewards of working.
Every man should be fed, clothed, housed and cared for. Those are
inalienable rights. Please do not think people will not labor if the
basics are supplied. I know of no person who works for just groceries
and a roof over their head. They work for a new car, or for an
education or for a better life for their children or for vacations, or
for a comfortable old age. We all have goals. People can be motivated
to work harder and smarter, but not by threats of ruination because of
illness.
Beldin the Sorcerer
> "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beld...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hn7erm$87p$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Clave" <ClaviusNo...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
>> news:hn7dp5$41g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> <...>
>
>>>> Socialism isn't evil.
>>>> It just isn't practical while people are selfish.
>>>
>>> What *horseshit*.
>>>
>>> In general terms:
>>>
>>> Americans love their socialized military.
>>
>> Military cannot protect people who pay, and let die people who don't...
>
> Which doesn't contradict the point at all, and neither does any of the
> superfluous dreck I snipped there.
And, as usual,. you snip it because it shows that you're wrong.
>
>
>>> Americans love their socialized courts.
>>
>> No, most of them would rather pay someone (especially if it might help
>> them win)
>
> I didn't say attorneys, I said courts. People hate attorneys, but given
> the
> choice between the socialized courts we have and no courts?
Asswipe, what is 'binding arbitration'?
Privatized courts.
LOADS of people prefer them.
>
> You really wanna go there?
Me?
I accept government courts as a price of citizenship.
That's not socialized of course.
>
>
>>> Americans love their socialized roads.
>>
>> Roads aren't socialized.
>
> The hell they aren't, you ignorant fuck.
When did we all build them together, fucknut?
>
> With the exception of the rare toll road, funds to build them come from
> collective taxation, and we all drive on them.
Fuckhead, I already kicked you in the balls for being retarded enough to
think that using tax dollars equates to socialism.
Under socialism, there's no taxes. Noone owns anything privately, you fuck.
And you hid from the fact that when such a plan is tried, be it communistic
USSR or communes from hippies, it breaks down because most people want
everyone ELSE to work while they have fun.
It's the middle of the night, Jimbo.
You don't work, I'm guessing.
We know dutch doesn't.
How would you know about giving more than you get?
bub
<hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote:
> As soon as everyone has
>your job, there will be no more health care crisis.
there is no crisis. 85% have health coverage and 95% of those like
what they have.
if it is such a crisis , why don't they start it right away , instead
of years from now?
if there is so much medicare fraud and wasted money, why don't they
stop that right now? why wait?(oh and barry runs medicare).
if it is such a crisis, why don't members of the congress take this
great new healthcare they want us all to be blessed with? why will
they keep their insurance, which they get to choose from 22 different
plans instead of taking this wonderous gift from obama?
> Maybe you should be president instead of Obama. The nation's unemployment
>rate is 10%, but you could fix that simply by instructing those without jobs to go out and work.
if barry can't figure it out what makes you think he has any clue
about healthcare?or medicare? or medicaid? or social security? etc
>Which hospital or clinic is that?
a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as
"patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of
your ability to pay
http://www.findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
"Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no
health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income.
Health centers provide
checkups when you're well
treatment when you're sick
complete care when you're pregnant
immunizations and checkups for your children
dental care and prescription drugs for your family "
>If someone has cancer, they can get free treatment? Have you alerted
>the news media?
>I can absolutely believe this. "I've got mine, so screw everyone
>else" is the basic principle of many conservatives.
i got mine and pay a shitload of taxes on it already which go to
taking care of people who think shit should be given to them for
nothing, not people who need it but people who think they are entitled
to it.
>Could you try to use a more loaded word than "handouts"?
>--
freebies
Clave
<...>
> Every man should be fed, clothed, housed and cared for. Those are
> inalienable rights.
They should be.
Jim
Beldin the Sorcerer
>
>> The insurance part sure as fuck isn't, and that's what it's about.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
> According to Beldin insurance costs don't count.
No, fuckhead, according to the counts used in comparing health care costs,
they don't cout.
How fucked in the ass are you tonight? I gave you the cite, shithead
Beldin the Sorcerer
>>>
>>> The insurance part sure as fuck isn't, and that's what it's about.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>
>> According to Beldin insurance costs don't count.
>
> Yaknow, that's part of what makes him so goddamn cute.
>
Yeah, that's adorable
Mrs Iris Mike
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 19:51:14 -0800 (PST), Mrs Iris Mike> all i did was point out options to your statement of "Now what ya
> gonna do?"
>
> >Let us just say that basic medical care in an inalienable right
>
> health. and housing because you'll get sick if you have no shelter.
> and it's not fair some people have house on the beach soooo everyone
> gets a beach house unless of course you want to live in the mountains
> so free mountain homes for them..gotta be fair free houses and all
> nice houses cuz not fair some people have nicer homes than others
>
> and the great thing about it is..IT'S FREE free homes free food ..hell
> free cars. and everyone gets a $50,000 car cuz it wouldn't be fair if
> one had a nicer car.
>
> >How much money is spent each year doing heart by-
> >pass surgery? Is their an increase in life expectancy from this
> >procedure?
>
Correction. as an RN I know the answer to be no! There is no increase
in life expectancy from heart bypass surgery.
Drugs come with side effects. Surgery comes with complications.
Procedures come with results that are not desired.
>
> >There are also many folk remedies that work but are not used because there is no
> >profit.
>
> feel free to use
>
> **snip insane prattle**
>
> >How do we justify the money spent on that one condition?).
>
> because it wouldn't be fair letting people be sad?
No, because there is money to be made from misery. Everytime a person
comes down with cancer, the GDP increases.
Beldin the Sorcerer
They COULD be, if you get people to accept that those getting free food,
clothing, and shelter get functional, but not performance. They get a studio
apartment with a pass to a public buffet serving low cost, nutritious, but
not gormet quality food, and a pass for public transit.
You work harder, you can have a house and buy fashionable clothes.
The Democrats fucked up HUGE in the 60's when they started worrying about
people looking like second class citizens if they're on the dole. They ARE
second class citizens, if they're able to work but aren't. They SHOULD be
embarrassed. Keep them alive, but keep them motivated to get OFF the dole.
No, you don't live in an apartment building where people don't know you're
getting assistence. You live in a public domicile unit, where all utilities
are provided (including the internet) but few comforts are. You use the net
to learn things, you develop skills, and you find a job to get OUT of public
housing.
(No, you don't do this for the disabled. Can't work is different from Won't
work.)
Clave
>
> "Clave" <ClaviusNo...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:hn7i0q$m8n$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Mrs Iris Mike" <BeaF...@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:ab46b9ef-9b03-4330...@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> <...>
>>
>>> Every man should be fed, clothed, housed and cared for. Those are
>>> inalienable rights.
>>
>> They should be.
>
> No, they shouldn't be. Yet.
<...blah, blah, blah...I have to be right about something...blah...>
bub
<hitme...@mindspring.dot.com.invalid> wrote:
>And if it turned out that a tax increase were
>required after all, I could live with it.
you know you are free to send any extra money you want to the us
treasury to help out with this crisis.
how much ya sending, skippy?
bub
<BeaF...@msn.com> wrote:
>Correction. as an RN I know the answer to be no! There is no increase
>in life expectancy from heart bypass surgery.
as a cna you are saying people don't live longer after a cabg than if
they didn't have one?
really?
Mrs Iris Mike
wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 05:21:12 -0800, "BillB" <bo...@shaw1.ca> wrote:
> >Also, the B.C. Pharmacare plan helps all residents pay for drugs.
> >There is no cost to enroll in Pharmacare. Essentially, if you have a
> >family income over 30k, once your drug costs reach 3% of family
> >income, Pharmacare covers 70%. Once your drug costs reach 4% of family
> >income, the government picks up 100%. Seems fair, doesn't it?
>
> B-b-b-but that's SOCIALIST!!!! Therefore, it's EVIL!
> ~ Seth Jackson
America was founded on personal accomplishment. Now there is a
movement that is more concerned that someone might get a crust of
bread he has not 'earned'. We are becoming a trite society. Someone
might get a vacination and it'll cost me a foo foo drink my next
vacation to Tahiti. Wah wah wah.
Islam decrees that every person who earns enough to eat, to give a
portion of his wages to the poor. There is no distinction of the lazy
or undeserving. This selfish breed of Christiananity will have us all
bowing to Mecca within a generation.
Charity, preached by every religion of the world, is a way of
bringing justice to society.
From the offering of this poor widow, learn that what we rightly give
for the relief of the poor. Lu 21:5
There are two forms of charity in Islam—obligatory and voluntary,
called zakat and sadaqa respectively. Zakah, from the verb zaka,
which signifies “to thrive,” “to be wholesome,” “to be pure” means
purification. Giving up of a portion of the wealth one may possess in
excess of what is needed for sustenance, is to “purify” or legalize it
so that the remainder may lawfully be used by the alms giver.
Deducting zakat from one’s earnings is a material acknowledgment of
the fact that the actual giver is God. Since the giver is God, the
recipient is duty bound to spend it in His cause.
http://www.alrisala.org/Articles/mailing_list/charity.html
If our religous leaders will not stand up for the poor, then there
will be other religous leaders who will.
bub
<BeaF...@msn.com> wrote:
>Every man should be fed, clothed, housed and cared for. Those are
>inalienable rights.
who is paying for this ?
Clave
>
> "Clave" <ClaviusNo...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:hn7g3g$dva$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
<...>
>>>> Americans love their socialized military.
>>>
>>> Military cannot protect people who pay, and let die people who don't...
>>
>> Which doesn't contradict the point at all, and neither does any of the
>> superfluous dreck I snipped there.
>
> Yeah, shithead, it does.
Only because you want to pretend I'm arguing something I'm not.
> And, as usual,. you snip it because it shows that you're wrong...
Contrary to the misdirected side-track you want to take this, I don't
advocate outright "socialism", nor have I implied such anywhere in this
thread. There are certain things for which a socialistic approach by
government are more appropriate than the private sector.
Apparently you don't have much more than dreary semantic wank arguments
against any of those.
So anyway, I reserve my right to not bother reading past the first piece of
patent horseshit you post.
I'm guessing this pisses you off even more than redirected followups piss
off the crybaby.
Jim
--
ps -- made ya look
Mrs Iris Mike
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 22:56:55 -0800 (PST), Mrs Iris Mike
>
> <BeaFor...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > Not advertising for
> >anti-depressant medications (side note, with all the medications
> >therapies and health care related to the treatment of depression, the
>
> if you quote you have to cite.
>
> High Suicide Rate in India and China claims WHO
> "Suicide is becoming a leading cause of death in India and China. Both
> the countries have the highest suicide rates in the world. This has
> been based on WHO estimates of suicides in both the countries.
> In China, for every 100,000 people 99 of them commit suicide annually.
>
> "A new six-year analysis in the American Journal of Preventive
> Medicine found that the U.S. suicide rate rose to 11 per 100,000
Did you read the entire page? The claim is not from WHO. here read
what was written at the bottom of the article:
The suicide rates cited in the article are based on a faulty Times of
India article which cited the year the suicide rates were available as
the actual suicide rates. For example, the data was RELEASED in [99 in
the case of India, and in ‘99 in the case of China (both countries’
listed suicide rates are much lower). Please see:
http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/index.html.
I have already e-mailed the editor of the TOI to notify them of this
admittedly egregious error.
Go to the link cited, that will put you on to the WHO website. There
you will find the true numbers. Your answer will be awaited