Caro question - looking for the source of something I read a while ago
nic...@optonline.net
Some years back I read something by Caro. It was called, "Ten Days to
Better Hold 'Em," or something like that. It was ten assignments, to
be done in ten days of play, one assignment for each day. I don't
remember if this was in a magazine article or a book, and the title of
whichever it was, and none of my searches have turned up anything
useful. Wondering if anyone here might remember it.
Thanks!
popinjay999
wrote:
link to Gamblers Book Club which still has it in stock, and I am sure
you can obtain it elsewhere too. Trust me, Caro's reports are the
best! There are no other publications like these, as he has one for 7-
Stud also. In the old days, like 1982 or so, he published one called
"Poker Plan 3". That was REALLY good! Anyway, this will be the best
$20 you ever invested.
http://tinyurl.com/3dxrbu7
By the way, it is a good thing I still post to and read RGP, because
none of the other morons still on this newsgroup know anything about
what you were asking, I guarantee you that.
good luck,
Paul Popinjay
Senior Coordinator RGP and Important Casino Executive
nic...@optonline.net
on here before. Hope I can post more soon!
![Mark B [Diputsur]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjW1ukZesLHTvLryryGaLhoUTsW-4I5_N8bKNVoFKGU5T0OxggP6=s40-c)
Mark B [Diputsur]
"popinjay999" <paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:e8d0a493-d336-4fd6...@u19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> By the way, it is a good thing I still post to and read RGP, because
> none of the other morons still on this newsgroup know anything about
> what you were asking, I guarantee you that.
Doesn't matter *how* I know...
but I could have easily answered that question :P
Steam
---
popinjay999
Well sure, you and Mark say that NOW.
Steam
out, and whatever else I could find to give me a leg up
____________________________________________________________________
DDawgster
is his response
56 minutes ago
Mike Caro
It was a short report-style document called "Eleven Days to Poker
Success." It sold for $20. It will be for sale again at Poker1.com in the
near future. Or, it's possible that it might be one of the documents that
will be discontinued and available for free at P1.
________________________________________________________________________
popinjay999
> Mike caro is a facebook friend of mine.
>
Mark B [Diputsur]
"DDawgster" <a1e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message news:4shkk8x...@recgroups.com...
DDawgster
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
________________________________________________________________________
Mark B [Diputsur]
"DDawgster" <a1e...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message news:gijkk8x...@recgroups.com...
> i accepted his request ..no offense
popinjay999
>
> i accepted his request ..no offense
>
everyone that YOU do not have or have never read the report that the
original poster was asking about. You've got a plate full of shit to
dish out to everyone, including second helpings, and everyone but you
is supposed to be a TVSM, but I GUARANTEE that YOU never studied his
12-missions. And why? Oh, because you're an ooooold timer, and you
know everything already.
By the way, it is TWELVE days to holdem success, not eleven, you
fucking moron, it was the stud report that had eleven missions. BUT
THE HOLDEM REPORT HAD TWELVE! Fucking idiots.
DDawgster
me when he wrote an article titled "how to play the 4 card draw in n/l
lo-ball..john sutton , when he ran the Bike was drinking with me and said
that he should put it on the marquis when Caro played ..he isnt even a
jouneyman player
he just plays to do weird shit and then try to explain it to people
because he is smarter than they are
dont forget "everyone plays poker for different reasons "
popinjay999
>
> i never read his stuff.. his thingy on tells was pure bullshit
clearly now. Please, Doggy, don't ever leave RGP because this is
exactly where you belong. This is what RGP has become.
DDawgster
player magazine stuff i sent you
all very hokey and lame
popinjay999
>
> go back and look at them .. they are in all the archive issues of car
> player magazine stuff i sent you
>
> all very hokey and lame
>
and Fox's book that are beat up from use. I have extra copies of new
ones just because I appreciate them for what they are. When Book of
Tells came out AGAIN in hardback, I bought three copies. I haven't
even opened two of them. They sit on my shelf, still wrapped. I
should get them insured. Clearly you are the journeyman around here,
if that. Fucking Old Geezer Scooter Moron, an old dog who will never
learn a new trick. I was studying Caro and John Fox presumably while
you were studying to be a drunk and has-been poker room employee. I
have NEVER been on your side of the table! Get the fuck oudda here,
Doggystyle. We used to have some very heavy conversations on this
newsgroup, back in the day, way before you came along, way before Russ
came along. People who actually did a lot of thinking, and re-
thinking, and discussing amongst other smart enthusiasts. You suck a
big amateur weenie.
And by the way, one of the deepest thinkers on this newsgroup in the
old days was Gary Carson. Sure, he was colorful. But he was smart.
And he had one of the best grasps of the topics of tells, Gary had one
of the best minds on theory. This group isn't a shadow of what it
once was. Like I said, you belong here now, Doggy, so don't leave.
You ARE what RGP is now. Fucking WEAK!
popinjay999
>
> player magazine stuff i sent you
>
> all very hokey and lame
>
HoneyMonster
> Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I have copies of his BoT
> and Fox's book that are beat up from use. I have extra copies of new
> ones just because I appreciate them for what they are. When Book of
> Tells came out AGAIN in hardback, I bought three copies. I haven't even
> opened two of them. They sit on my shelf, still wrapped. I should get
> them insured. Clearly you are the journeyman around here, if that.
> Fucking Old Geezer Scooter Moron, an old dog who will never learn a new
> trick. I was studying Caro and John Fox presumably while you were
> studying to be a drunk and has-been poker room employee. I have NEVER
> been on your side of the table! Get the fuck oudda here, Doggystyle.
> We used to have some very heavy conversations on this newsgroup, back in
> the day, way before you came along, way before Russ came along. People
> who actually did a lot of thinking, and re- thinking, and discussing
> amongst other smart enthusiasts. You suck a big amateur weenie.
>
> And by the way, one of the deepest thinkers on this newsgroup in the old
> days was Gary Carson. Sure, he was colorful. But he was smart. And he
> had one of the best grasps of the topics of tells, Gary had one of the
> best minds on theory. This group isn't a shadow of what it once was.
> Like I said, you belong here now, Doggy, so don't leave. You ARE what
> RGP is now. Fucking WEAK!
DDawgster
much about poker . his neverending "tell' series is nothing but a
"self-stroke" in print . it went on for 3 extra years just filling space..
you cant "stage" tells .. they have to be a combination of things to pick
up on them .
tells are picked up intuitively , you dont read them in a book and go try
them out .. people who get off on tells are most of the time stroking
their own egos and tipping their own hand
he is an excellent writer with a tremendous imagination, who has NEVER
been taken seriously .. good bathroom read and it used to be fun to see
how many of my friends were in the "tells" photo
hes not called the "mad genius" for nothing
on another note he is a pretty good guy .. when I was on the Bike
softball team , we had a standing bet of 200 dollars a game .. he always
lost and always paid
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
DDawgster
all the people who knew anything were already writing it
he created his own niche and he was a good enough writer to pull it off ..
the content of the "tells" were a joke .
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
DDawgster
> On Sep 19, 5:55 pm, "DDawgster" <a1e5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> > go back and look at them .. they are in all the archive issues of car
> > player magazine stuff i sent you
> >
> > all very hokey and lame
> >
>
>
> Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I have copies of his BoT
> and Fox's book that are beat up from use. I have extra copies of new
> ones just because I appreciate them for what they are. When Book of
> Tells came out AGAIN in hardback, I bought three copies. I haven't
> even opened two of them. They sit on my shelf, still wrapped. I
> should get them insured.
Clearly you are the journeyman around here,
> if that. Fucking Old Geezer Scooter Moron, an old dog who will never
> learn a new trick. I was studying Caro and John Fox presumably while
> you were studying to be a drunk and has-been poker room employee. I
> have NEVER been on your side of the table! Get the fuck oudda here,
> Doggystyle. We used to have some very heavy conversations on this
> newsgroup, back in the day, way before you came along, way before Russ
> came along. People who actually did a lot of thinking, and re-
> thinking, and discussing amongst other smart enthusiasts. You suck a
> big amateur weenie.
>
> And by the way, one of the deepest thinkers on this newsgroup in the
> old days was Gary Carson. Sure, he was colorful. But he was smart.
> And he had one of the best grasps of the topics of tells, Gary had one
> of the best minds on theory. This group isn't a shadow of what it
> once was. Like I said, you belong here now, Doggy, so don't leave.
> You ARE what RGP is now. Fucking WEAK!
popinjay999
>
> ok .. so you were a disciple of someone who writes well and doesnt know
> much about poker .
tells and body language, while at the same time you have given every
indication that you are indeed the laughing stock of RGP.
A quick message to the original poster should he take a chance and
read RGP further even after the mess that this thread has turned
into. He might find a few very knowledgeable posters like Tad Perry,
Iceman, Steam, myself, etc., and a few others that still post here.
But he would be well advised to take anything that the guy who calls
himself "Doggystyle", Dawgster", K9Way", etc. with a big grain of
salt, including any of his sometimes amusing and entertaining stories
of the "old days". But you should know that you can generally and
summarily DISMISS anything Dawgster says about poker theory, strategy,
etc. because he is essentially a big mouthed phony who always has an
opinion but doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, and he has
never gambled to put food on his table, pay his mortgage, even to buy
dog biscuits. He has ALWAYS been an employee.
Good luck to the original poster, you missed the glory days of RGP by
about 8 years.
popinjay999
>
> they werent groundbreaking , he couldnt get in to print any other way ..
> all the people who knew anything were already writing it
>
> he created his own niche and he was a good enough writer to pull it off ..
> the content of the "tells" were a joke .
>
Who do you think was responsible for many of the concepts in John
Fox's enormously brilliant work Play Poker, Quit Work, and Sleep till
Noon? Published way before the Book of Tells or the articles in Poker
Player.
Apparently you have absolutely zero shame and nothing embarrasses you
at all. One would think that you would have been driven from RGP with
your tail between your legs years ago when people started to figure
out what a no-nothing bag of air you are. Even more so when they
finally figured out who the person behind the obnoxiously anonymous
mask was. There is still a chance for you, Chuck, why don't you try
disappearing for a month and then try to sneak back as a new poster
called Poopie Poodle and no one will even recognize you.
popinjay999
> There is still a chance for you, Chuck, why don't you try
> disappearing for a month and then try to sneak back as a new poster
> called Poopie Poodle and no one will even recognize you.
"Doggystyle". My second choice is Sheltie Shit.
DDawgster
> On Sep 19, 10:24 pm, "DDawgster" <a1e5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> > they werent groundbreaking , he couldnt get in to print any other way ..
> > all the people who knew anything were already writing it
> >
> >
>
>
> Who do you think was responsible for many of the concepts in John
> Fox's enormously brilliant work Play Poker, Quit Work, and Sleep till
> Noon? Published way before the Book of Tells or the articles in Poker
> Player.
>
> Apparently you have absolutely zero shame and nothing embarrasses you
> at all. One would think that you would have been driven from RGP with
> your tail between your legs years ago when people started to figure
> out what a no-nothing bag of air you are. Even more so when they
> finally figured out who the person behind the obnoxiously anonymous
> mask was. There is still a chance for you, Chuck, why don't you try
> disappearing for a month and then try to sneak back as a new poster
> called Poopie Poodle and no one will even recognize you.
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
Mossingen
process tells, but you are wrong to say that tells cannot be learned. Caro
presented a way of thinking about them (and other topics) that allows casual
players to apply knowledge in real games. Carson did this, too.
DDawgster
ok.. here is an example of what I mean .. lets address "shaking".. Caro
has written a lot about this issue , but shaking comes as a result of a
multitude of things .. just because one person shakes , it doesnt mean
that 5 other people shake for the same reason ..
some might shake when they are bluffing
some might shake when they have the nuts in a HUUUGE pot
some might shake on the turn when they have a big hand , but are "afraid'
of bad cards coming
some shake because they are old
some shake because they dont handle chips well and they dont want to
appear as a novice
some shake on purpose
some shake because they are a novice and are under "newbie" pressure
etc
etc
tells are a funny issue .. on scores of occasions I have told people that
they have tells , EVERY SINGLE TIME , they argue to the death that they
do not have a tell. "tells" are an issue that almost everyone thinks does
not apply to them
i guarantee you that if you showed Dennis Phillips the hand where he
raised with K_3 d and flopped the nuts , checked like he was disgusted ,
then just called , and ended up breaking the poor sap who backed into an A
high straight, that he would never agree that his actions on the flop were
a DEAD GIVEAWAY as to his hand .
no one admits to having tells , yet EVERYONE thinks they have tells on
other people .. and EVERYONE thinks they have 'special insight" , that
they really do not have .
scores of unqualified people ran to their computer to write what they
believed to be valuable insight on many issues since the "boom" started..
Caro was a ground breaker and is an inovator when it comes to poker text,
but most of his 'tell' stuff is pure hooey.
And EVERYONE who writes about poker overvalues their works worth. In 93 I
was getting ready to deal a satelite at the WSOP and Bulldog Syke's book
had just come out . He was sitting at the table and went into a rant about
his book having to be moved to the upstairs gift shop, rather that be sold
in the street level gift shop at Binions downtown ..I asked him why and he
said that people were coming in off the street just to "STEAL" his book as
it was "SO INFORMATIVE". I assumed he was making a joke and started
kidding back with him and told him that it was pretty funny..he went
berserk that I thought he was joking ..he was DEAD SERIOUS .. he
genuinelly believed that the whole world hinged on his tired old book .
Poker writing needs to be taken with a grain of salt..if they could play
. they wouldnt write and exose what they think they know .
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
--------�
popinjay999
>
> I think you're selling Caro way short here. Some players intuitively
> process tells, but you are wrong to say that tells cannot be learned. Caro
> presented a way of thinking about them (and other topics) that allows casual
> players to apply knowledge in real games. Carson did this, too.
NO business even being involved in a conversation about poker tells
and body language. And you know we had some deep and heavy
conversations about this topic in years past, way BEFORE Poop ever
showed up on the RGP scene. He has been nothing but a disruption to
this newsgroup. Doggystyle is PART of the reason this newsgroup has
fallen. Ask Popejoy.
TVSMs indeed. DOGGYSTYLE has proven himself to be a MAJOR tvsm. It's
even worse given his age and experience. Young players have a reason
for being clueless. But what's his reason?
popinjay999
>
> ok.. here is an example of what I mean .. lets address "shaking".. Caro
> has written a lot about this issue , but shaking comes as a result of a
> multitude of things .. just because one person shakes , it doesnt mean
> that 5 other people shake for the same reason ..
>
when the subject turns to tells. Oh, my side hurts, my eyes are
watering. You don't even know what tells are, fuck face, do you.
What a maroon! Doggystyle has condensed a topic as wide and extensive
as poker tells and body language into one word, "Shaking". What a
fucking idiot.
Is this an "act" of Doggystyle? Is he really trying to act stupid
because he's smart and wants to mislead us? I don't THINK so! We got
the real McCoy here folks.
>
> Caro was a ground breaker and is an inovator when it comes to poker text,
> but most of his 'tell' stuff is pure hooey.
>
participating in ANY serious discussion of poker or any other gambling-
related topic on RGP in the future. I might even use it in my
signature line from now on.
Lab Rat
> EVERYONE thinks they have 'special insight" , that they really do not have .
---
popinjay999
>
> . they wouldnt write and exose what they think they know .
>
What that old adage actually was meant to say is, "If they could play,
they wouldn't DEAL poker."
popinjay999
>
> desperation isnt very pretty on you
>
Look who's desperate. You are running in a hamster wheel trying to
"explain" about poker tells, whereas anyone who has studied the topic
can plainly see that your knowledge of the subject is extremely
limited. What I don't understand is why you would be desperate to
"save face". You already lack credibility. There is no face to save.
DDawgster
up to wait to see what your opinion is going to be .. then get back to me
....BOY
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
mo_charles
barry pulling crack through a broken beaker; i want to make sure they
read a post by someone else today.
above, guys ^ !
mo_charles
_______________________________________________________________________
DDawgster
> _______________________________________________________________________�
and the kiddies pile on ..lol
> Apparently I see no reason for Perry to have lied well over a year ago..
Another gem from Alim Nassor
--------�
popinjay999
>
> lo..**yawn** you let me know when a poker issue comes up and people line
> up to wait to see what your opinion is going to be .. then get back to me
> ....BOY
>
If there is ever a serious discussion about tells and body language, I
promise you they will line up to hear what I have to say, Poodle
Poop. May I call you Pood? I am quite sure I know more about this
topic than any other human being currently posting to this newsgroup.
Which is approximately 180 degrees opposite of what you apparently
know about it. Ha! "Shaking", that was rich! My side still hurts.
Please, Pood, take your phony ass the fuck off of this newsgroup and
join your brothers in laughing-stock-dom, Irish Mike and IGotSkillz,
apparently even they got the message that has still failed to resonate
on you. The bluffing is over, Pood. Go back to the Mapes, I hear
they're looking for a part-time Brush.
popinjay999
>
> seconded! a herd of leftwing ankle-biters devour my posts like marion
> barry pulling crack through a broken beaker; i want to make sure they
> read a post by someone else today.
>
responsibility here to the newsgroup, to CUT THROUGH THE BULLSHIT!
Imagine that the first thing yesterday's original poster saw was one
of Pood's posts. What is a newbie supposed to think? I don't want
young people starting off their poker careers by swallowing some of
Doggystyle's poor advice and bad habits. Doggystyle is a horrible
influence on our youth. Between the influence of rap music on one
hand and Doggystyle's negativism on the other hand, what chance does a
young person have in the world?
mo_charles
if i've learned anything from my time on this valued newsgroup, it's that
influence by others is overrated. what this youngster needs is what those
big, fat, black girls attacking the other kid on the bus need ... more of
our hard-earned money! you give people money, everything turns out right.
mo_charles
____________________________________________________________________
nic...@optonline.net
writing(s) could spark this kind of discussion. It seems I've
stumbled into an ongoing war of, if not strictly words, then one of
ideas or opinions.
I appreciate everyone's advice and direction concerning my original
question.
As for tells, if I could offer my own observations for a moment. I
read Caro's Book of Tells some years ago and watched the videos.
(Before I voluntarily left the game for a time.) I can say that I've
seen some of the tells of which he speaks, and have benefited from
those lessons on more than one occassion. I am by no means an
authority on poker or tells or body language in general. I only speak
to my personal experience. And in this area, as with many others,
Caro's ideas have enlightened me. I am not an expert, merely another
player trying to minimize my losses and maximize my winnings.
Thanks again!
popinjay999
wrote:
thinking, a common thread. Yes, there are some that can be
specifically listed by rote, but with many tells or body language, you
want to first determine if your opponent is acting in any way. If the
answer is YES, he is acting, then get into his mind and figure out
what his acting is supposed to be accomplishing for him. What does he
hope you'll do as a result of his acting? If you can figure that out,
then usually just go the opposite and, as Mike Caro says, "disappoint
him".
Of course, not all tells or body language falls into the "acting"
category. Since you read the book, you know that just the way an
opponent stacks his chips is a tell of some sort, and he's not even
thinking about it.
It's a wide open field, it is as wide as the world full of people is.
But there are common threads. If you are still interested, I highly
recommend EVERYTHING Mike Caro has written or produced. Also, for a
classic, John Fox's book is a study course in human behavior at the
card table. It was specifically written with draw poker in mind, but
the lessons are applicable to today's poker game, and surely the poker
games in the future.
Lastly, yes, there is plenty of history with the guy we call
Doggystyle. He has been on this newsgroup for maybe 6 or 7 years, and
gotten under everyone's skin at least twice. He gets off on it. So
sometimes we like to give back to him, in spades. Aside from the
personal feuds with him, on a serious note, he is truly full of shit
when he dismissed Mike Caro's lessons. Mike Caro is the nuts. Mike
Caro is a very very logical man. Don't listen to Doggy. Do listen to
Mike Caro. Good luck.
-Paul Popinjay
Senior Coordinator RGP and Important Casino Executive, Roadhouse Casino
nic...@optonline.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the response. As long as I have you here, let me ask you a
question. The major problem I have in applying anything I read
(beyond specific, calculable things like odds) is that I don't know
when to apply it. For example, I know that postflop theory comes in
after the flop -- I'm not dense -- but often times I read things like
try this 70% of the time, and this 30% of the time; or don't ever call
in this situation, it's much more profitable to do this ...
unless....; etc. I have a hard time applying concepts that are NOT
concrete. I can memorize a table in no time, with a little practice I
can calculate anything on the spot. But, the intricacies of the game
-- the FEEL of the game -- often times eludes me. When I'm at the
table I get so caught up in trying to remember all the advice, trying
to replay the entire hand in my mind, trying to understand too many
things at once, that I lose control of my game and revert to what is
most comfortable for me, rather than trying to expand and grow. And
now that the entire world seems to prefer NLHE, I have to adjust from
a medium limit ($10-20) where I was most comfortable, to $1-$2 no
limit, which is kicking my ass. I know it's because I'm lacking a
fundamental understanding of no limit, but it's hard for me to see the
value in no-limit books because I think they tend to pertain to higher
no limit games, rather than the $1-$2, which seems to have become the
new no-fold-em-hold-em.
Im at a loss. So I've been rereading books, looking at new books,
trying to get an insight to the game that I am lacking. I think it's
somewhere in the betting, I'm just not understanding the betting.
Limit is easy because at no time are you at any risk for more than
four bets, and that only rarely. No limit has me baffled because of
the idea that you are always at risk of losing your stack. And I hate
not knowing the game. It pisses me off that I can't get a grasp of
things. That's when I remembered reading that report years and years
ago. It comes tomorrow and I think I'll really get something out of
it because I like specific assignments, I like instructions.
Anyway, I've rambled enough. If anything above seems like something
you -- or anyone else, for that matter, I'll sift through it all and
take what I can, what I want, and leave the rest -- might have some
words of advice/wisdom about, please let me know. A suggestion, a
good book, whatever.
And, as always,
Thanks
popinjay999
wrote:
Frankly, I am not a good no-limit player. I don't have the
experience. Although, I did cut my teeth in a lot of no-limit lowball
games back in the 70s and 80s, because there were plenty in Central
California and I frequented those card rooms. But I was a kid back
then, so I really cannot give advice on no-limit holdem in today's
setting. BUT, you are going in the right direction by thinking of
looking back at that Mike Caro report from years ago. It does much
much more than teach you "what hands to play from what position". It
takes all the intangibles of poker and burns them into your brain, one
mission at a time. It is a brilliant way to teach. Get that report,
be patient, and never stop studying. Go through the missions. Really
seriously go through those missions. Towards the end it will have you
repeat the mission you had most difficulty with. Go through them
AGAIN! Then, read another book. And then another. Six months down
the line, go through the missions AGAIN! You might even adopt a
policy of doing a mission every once in a while for the rest of your
life. It's just like getting your car a tune-up.
I'm sorry that I cannot specifically advise you on no-limit holdem,
but I know my limitations and my strong points, and no-limit holdem is
not one of them. I am not consumed by or driven by ego. As
difficult as it might be to believe, I am actually quite humble and
modest, despite how thoroughly I just bitch-slapped the fuck out of
Doggystyle yesterday.
Good luck, Nick. Perhaps some others will jump in with some advice.
As newsgroup coordinator, I will purposely check in to review any
comments and I will advise you as to what and who you can routinely
dismiss. Beware, there are numerous pretenders on RGP. But there are
still some smart people. If you give the group a chance, you will
probably figure out which ones they are. You will need to sift
through a lot of foolishness. Remind me sometime to tell you how I
became general manager of a major Las Vegas area casino and
established one of the best biscuits and gravy specials in the town's
history.
PS: For extra credit, look up "Play Poker, Quit Work, and Sleep Till
Noon". I recommend you get that someday.
good luck,
Paul
mo_charles
(tournaments specifically, but the ideas are easily applicable to they
type of cash game you're talking about) is harrington on hold 'em (first
two books). i haven't read the third, but i doubt it adds much.
mo_charles
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