American ingredients names
Geordie Guy
I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are, it's at
http://bit.ly/a8gIcv
One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
- G
James Silverton
Since we American are in the majority, one might, if one was to be
obnoxious, say standard English cooking terms with translations for
other dialects :-)
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
George Shirley
but as "American Standard." I think the Canadians still use some
Imperial measurements where a quart is not a quart but a little larger, etc.
We don't spell chili con carne with two l's either, that translates as
chiles with meat. Most Americans call Chiles "peppers." But, that too is
a misnomer, there are different types of chiles and none of them are
pepper but that is the common name here. I think the chilli version came
from India orginally but am not sure.
I agree it would be easier to do the measurements in metric but somehow
we have resisted using the French measuring system that the rest of the
world uses even though our government adopted it a long time ago. They
just have trouble enforcing it, hence automobiles with both metric and
standard size screws, nuts, and bolts.
Ground meat covers a wide variety of grinds of meat, you have to live
here to understand that. Minced meat, in my opinion, is ground way too
fine to enjoy and I used to buy minced meat when I lived in the Middle
EAst. Unfortunately a lot of it there had cinnamon in it, never
understood why.
As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have to speak Strine
to understand it.
Other than that, you were fairly close.
Virginia Tadrzynski
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hrkt35$2kj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
But India, Australia, the 'English' part of Canada, and the former British
colonies in Africa and the Caribbean speak 'Kings English'...it's only us in
the States who speak 'Merkin'.
-ginny
Brian Christiansen
"George Shirley" <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:E9adndUV3usKYEDW...@giganews.com...
> I agree it would be easier to do the measurements in metric but somehow we
> have resisted using the French measuring system that the rest of the world
> uses even though our government adopted it a long time ago. They just have
> trouble enforcing it, hence automobiles with both metric and standard size
> screws, nuts, and bolts.
>
I agree that metric makes a lot more sense mathematically than a random
hodgepodge of fractions (1 quart = 4 cups, 1 cup = 8 ounces, 1 foot = 12
inches, etc.). My dad says, however, that he knows what an inch, or an
ounce, or a cup is, and therefore that is what he teaches to me, and what
parents in general teach to their children.
Even though I think that metric makes more sense mathematically, if I were
to teach someone how to bake, I would probably use cups, tablespoons,
teaspoons and other "standard" measures, because that is what I know.
I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans) don't
really like either the government or the French telling us what measurement
system we are supposed to use.
Brian Christiansen
Kalmia
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
>
> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
> these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
> commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
> others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
> and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
>
> - G
Did you mean 'rutabaga' and 'bundt' pan? (just ribbin' ya on yer
spelin)
I daresay more 'murikins say chick peas than garbanzos, so maybe
that's not a fair entry.
J. Clarke
FWIW, in the US "chickpea" is used, as is "garbanzo" and "ceci",
depending on region and ethnicity of the speaker.
James Silverton
>> Geordie wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 07:13:35 +1000:
> >> I've written a blog entry about American names for
> >> ingredients and what their rest-of-English-speaking-world
> >> equivalents are, it's at http://bit.ly/a8gIcv
> >> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never
> >> heard any of these, instead saying that all the Australian
> >> English terms were commonplace. That's not accurate, but
> >> some might be more common than others. I'd be curious for
> >> people's comments about what is commonplace and what isn't,
> >> and any I might have missed.
>> Since we American are in the majority, one might, if one was
>> to be obnoxious, say standard English cooking terms with
>> translations for other dialects :-)
> You may be a majority in rfc, but hardly in Geordie's blog.
> afaik, America is not the majority of English speakers,
> either.
What dialect is the majority dialect? Not British, not Indian, not
Australian!
dsgood
>Geordie wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 07:13:35 +1000:
>
>>I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients
>>and what their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are,
>>it's at http://bit.ly/a8gIcv
>
>>One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard
>>any of these, instead saying that all the Australian English
>>terms were commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might
>>be more common than others. I'd be curious for people's
>>comments about what is commonplace and what isn't, and any I
>>might have missed.
>
>Since we American are in the majority, one might, if one was to be
>obnoxious, say standard English cooking terms with translations for
>other dialects :-)
I believe India has the highest number of English-users.
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)
Dan Abel
Janet Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> The message <hrkt35$2kj$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
> from "James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> contains these words:
> > Since we American are in the majority, one might, if one was to be
> > obnoxious, say standard English cooking terms with translations for
> > other dialects :-)
>
> You may be a majority in rfc, but hardly in Geordie's blog.
> afaik, America is not the majority of English speakers, either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Geographical_distribution
As far as English as a first language, out of 375 million, 215 are in
the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_popula
tion
For total English speakers, the US is still on the top, closely followed
by India, and Nigeria is far behind in third.
The US has about a quarter of the English speakers.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
dsgood
No. Most Anglophone Canadians speak dialects closely related to
American English. Newfoundlanders speak something which isn't much
like US English; but which is definitely not the Queen's English.
The English-speaking parts of the Caribbean speak dialects not much
like either standard British English or US English.
Australia and New Zealand speak in ways roughly similar to London-area
English; but there's been some divergence.
Indian English? Take a look at the India edition of Google News; the
vocabulary has diverged from the Queen's English.
And in some parts of Canada and New Zealand, as in some parts of the
US, there's the influence of Scots.
James Silverton
>> Hi all,
> In England, baking parchment and grease-proof paper, are
> two different products not the same thing..
> Swiss chard is commonly called swiss chard in England too.
I think the blog, were it to cover the different terms used in different
countries, could be very useful. It is not necessary really to fight
about what are the most used words, even if that can be rather
entertaining..
spamtrap1888
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
>
> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
> these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
> commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
> others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
> and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
You left out eggplant/aubergine, and zucchini/marrow.
Brits don't tend to use foreign words for things except for French.
spamtrap1888
> As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have to speak Strine
> to understand it.
>
Australia notoriously has the four-teaspoon tablespoon.
Steve Pope
>Australia notoriously has the four-teaspoon tablespoon.
Ouch!
So how far away from Australia do you have to be before
you're back to three-teaspoon tablespoons?
Tonga? Samoa? Japan?
Steve
spamtrap1888
> But India, Australia, the 'English' part of Canada, and the former British
> colonies in Africa and the Caribbean speak 'Kings English'...it's only us in
> the States who speak 'Merkin'.
Bull pucky. Only BBC announcers speak RP. In the UK, "English" changes
every twenty miles or so. Don't try to tell me that Jamaicans and
Tobagoans speak the same as East Anglians.
Geordie Guy
geographical restraints exist on the net).
I've had plenty of fights over the chard thing, because while chard and
silverbeet are the same thing, the variety you get in the US is usually
different to that grown elsewhere (it frequently has a pink or red stalk).
- G
Geordie Guy
> On May 2, 5:13 pm, Geordie Guy <g...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
>> their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are, it's athttp://bit.ly/a8gIcv
>>
>> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
>> these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
>> commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
>> others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
>> and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
>>
>> - G
>
> Did you mean 'rutabaga' and 'bundt' pan? (just ribbin' ya on yer
> spelin)
Thanks, I've fixed it :-)
>
> I daresay more 'murikins say chick peas than garbanzos, so maybe
> that's not a fair entry.
The note on the page is important. More 'murikins say cantaloupe than
musk melons too. It's not meant to show what's prevalent, just what
terms Australians might not have heard mean.
G
Je�us
<gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<snip>
>As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have to speak Strine
>to understand it.
Australian versions of measurements?? Quite simply, it's the metric
system.
These days, about the only time we need to use another system is for
cars/machinery that used the old imperial size nut and bolts...
Whitworth etc.
--
Je�us
May God protect you from his followers.
Je�us
<brian_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans) don't
>really like either the government or the French telling us what measurement
>system we are supposed to use.
That's a rather pathetic reason (if indeed it is a reason) not to
change to an easier/better system, isn't it?
Je�us
<janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
> Swiss chard is commonly called swiss chard in England too.
In Australia, it's probably most commonly known as Silverbeet, but
also known as Swiss Chard. That said, I noticed in and around Sydney,
it's more commonly called Spinach! Don't ask me why...
Je�us
Chick pea flour in Australia is most commonly known as 'Besan' flour.
Not sure if that's a world-wide thing or not.
Gabby
wrote:
> In England, baking parchment and grease-proof paper, are two
> different products not the same thing..
>
> Swiss chard is commonly called swiss chard in England too.
>
> Janet (UK)
In Canada:
Parchment is parchment,
Janet, I'm guessing that grease-proof paper is what we call waxed
paper.
Swiss chard is also called Swiss chard
Rutabagas are called rutabagas in some areas and turnips in the
Atlantic provinces. In the areas where they are called rutabagas you
often find turnips but you hardly ever see turnips in the areas where
rutabagas are called turnips. ;o) As for 'swedes', I've only ever
seen that in the dictionary.
Tomato sauce and tomato paste are two very different products.
Gabby
wrote:
> I've had plenty of fights over the chard thing, because while chard and
> silverbeet are the same thing, the variety you get in the US is usually
> different to that grown elsewhere (it frequently has a pink or red stalk).
>
> - G
I'm familiar with Swiss chard that looks somewhat like spinach and
'rhubarb chard' that looks like beet leaves.
Gabby
> Chick pea flour in Australia is most commonly known as 'Besan' flour.
> Not sure if that's a world-wide thing or not.
> --
> Jeßus
My first introduction to chick pea flour was to 'gram flour'. I
thought they were saying 'graham flour' which was a product my mom
would add to bread but it looked nothing like that product which is a
type of whole wheat flour. It took a while to sort out the mistake.
Brian Christiansen
"Je�us" <no...@all.invalid> wrote in message
news:lk1tt5tfi1glh3g25...@4ax.com...
> That's a rather pathetic reason (if indeed it is a reason) not to
> change to an easier/better system, isn't it?
>
is perhaps easier for most people to use decimals rather than fractions
(decimals are just "easier" fractions, they are still fractions). However,
I don't cook because it makes "mathematical" sense, I cook/bake because I
enjoy the process and the finished product.
The government/French or anyone else telling me how I am supposed to measure
stuff because it is "better" takes the enjoyment out of it.
Brian Christiansen
Geordie Guy
> On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:32:46 -0500, George Shirley
> <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have to speak Strine
>> to understand it.
>
> Australian versions of measurements?? Quite simply, it's the metric
> system.
> These days, about the only time we need to use another system is for
> cars/machinery that used the old imperial size nut and bolts...
> Whitworth etc.
Can't agree.
I'm 29, and nobody I know 10 years younger through to 40 years older,
measures the height of a person in centimeters or meters, it's always
feet and inches.
I have no idea how far 20 feet is along the ground, but I know I'm "six
two". In every other circumstance it's metric. I'm 6'2" and 85 kilos,
and I have no idea what height I am in centimeters, or my weight in
pounds (about 160 wouldn't it be? you double it-ish)
Geordie Guy
Swedes and turnips are different. Swedes are yellow with a purple
"corona" and ball shaped. Turnips are white, and the same shape as
carrots - right?
Geordie Guy
> On Mon, 03 May 2010 07:13:35 +1000, Geordie Guy wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
>> their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are, it's at
>> http://bit.ly/a8gIcv
>>
>> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
>> these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
>> commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
>> others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
>> and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
>
> to be incompatible with the "rest of the English speaking world",
> when it's the other way around.
...
No I'm not.
>
> Tomato sauce, topmato puree, and tomato paste are all three
> different forms of processed tomato used here in the US.
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It depends on the area of
the US, and apparently what phase the moon is in.
>
> "Green Onions" are more common than Scallion, and Spring Onion is
> not a scallion or green onion.
I make it clear in the post that some of them are uncommon or even
archaic, but they DO get used in (particularly older) US cookbooks and
it's useful for Australians to know.
>
> Brown Mix? Does not compute. If you mean gravy mix, then we don't
> rely on those things as much as your Gravox.
I've never used Gravox in my life, again, it may be archaic, but I've
got cookbooks that use the term.
>
> "All Purpose Flour" and "Plain Flour" is getting a little picky.
No, not really. You won't ever, ever, find a single packet of flour in
Australia with "all purpose flour" written on it, it's always plain
flour, and we use self raising flour more than is common elsewhere. So
"all purpose flour" is almost as likely to mean one as the other.
> In English, they mean the same thing. What English are you
> speaking?
They do mean the same thing, but that's not the point. One is used in
the US a lot, and Australians would be unlikely to know on face value
whether it means one highly common form of flour, or another.
>
> -sw
Omelet
Je�us <no...@all.invalid> wrote:
The Metric system is used universally in the health care and science
fields. Always. I like metrics better as it's much easier to convert
numbers by 10's. :-) I do wish we would switch over to it completely!
--
Peace! Om
Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
�Only Irish �coffee provides in a single glass all four �essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar �and fat. --Alex Levine
Giusi
"Brian Christiansen" ha scritto nel messaggio
> I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans)
> don't > really like either the government or the French telling us what
> measurement > system we are supposed to use.
Lame excuse. Who do you think established what you think of as American
standard measures? They actually have the original certified measures in
Washington DC. I was in university and just out of it when we were supposed
to be changing to netric. What a joke! Americans were too lazy to bother
and the government had plenty of problems and didn't push the issue. I got
a couple of jobs/projects because I was one of the very few designers who
could produce work in metric and annotated in more than one language.
Saying that US folks resist because they don't want to be told what to do is
facile and egocentric. Everyone else changed, we couldn't or wouldn't and I
listened to all the excuses. Quietly most of US industry did change over
because otherwise they couldn't sell their products.
In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add, tare
etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise
soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this
ior that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
Gabby
wrote:
Turnips and rutabagas have a similar shape and they both have the
purple corona. It's more pronounced on the turnip because the rest is
usually white.
Both turnip and rutabagas are in the cruciferae (mustard family).
Brassica rapa Rapifera group (turnips) are closely related to Chinese
cabbage and mustards. Turnips have a white or yellow fleshed root
generally with a flattened globe shape.
Brassica napus Napobrassica group (rutabagas) are an inter-species
hybrid bred in Switzerland (summer turnip x winter white cabbage).
Both white and yellow fleshed cultivars exist.
The rutabaga root consists of both true root and true stem. The upper
portion of the stem forms a neck. This neck distinguishes rutabagas
from turnips.
http://delectable-victuals.blogspot.com/2010/01/rutabaga-and-turnip-treat.html
Giusi
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:hrlch2$pe3
> I think the blog, were it to cover the different terms used in different >
> countries, could be very useful. It is not necessary really to fight >
> about what are the most used words, even if that can be rather >
> entertaining..
Dukes up, James! I appear to be the only one who left a comment with my
version of what US things are really called. It's all very well to say
greaseproof paper is waxed paper here, but he needs the skinny on his blog!
Get in there and help out. It's your patriotic duty.
Giusi
"Geordie Guy" ha scritto nel messaggio
Sqwertz wrote:
>> Tomato sauce, topmato puree, and tomato paste are all three>> different
>> forms of processed tomato used here in the US.
>
> Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It depends on the area of> the
> US, and apparently what phase the moon is in.
No, that's not true. The FDA has rules on what must be in there to be
called this or that. If you make it differently, you are forced to call it
"imitation" or whatever even if your product is btter and more like
homemade. Mayonnaise and ice cream are two notable examples.
>> "Green Onions" are more common than Scallion, and Spring Onion is>> not a
>> scallion or green onion.
>
> I make it clear in the post that some of them are uncommon or even>
> archaic, but they DO get used in (particularly older) US cookbooks and>
> it's useful for Australians to know.
>
>>
>> Brown Mix? Does not compute. If you mean gravy mix, then we don't
>> rely on those things as much as your Gravox.
>
> I've never used Gravox in my life, again, it may be archaic, but I've
> got cookbooks that use the term.
I have USA cookbooks dating back to 1899 and have never seen the term brown
mix.
>> "All Purpose Flour" and "Plain Flour" is getting a little picky.
>
> No, not really. You won't ever, ever, find a single packet of flour in>
> Australia with "all purpose flour" written on it, it's always plain>
> flour, and we use self raising flour more than is common elsewhere. So
> "all purpose flour" is almost as likely to mean one as the other.
OTH, in Italy I have to mix flours to get all purpose flour results. It's
very fine, has more gluten than our 0 or 00, but lots less than our
Manitoba. Protein percentages would be a useful addition to all flour
labels, IMO. I have had to make marginally ok batches over and over to find
what mixture works to replace the ubiquitous all-purpose.
Omelet
"Giusi" <deco...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I especially like about Metrics is the liquid to solid to weight
conversion. 1cc = 1ml = 1gram of liquid. QED!
Nancy Young
> Metric makes more matematical "sense" than conventional measurement,
> and it is perhaps easier for most people to use decimals rather than
> fractions (decimals are just "easier" fractions, they are still
> fractions). However, I don't cook because it makes "mathematical"
> sense, I cook/bake because I enjoy the process and the finished
> product.
> The government/French or anyone else telling me how I am supposed to
> measure stuff because it is "better" takes the enjoyment out of it.
Metric measurements do have that chemistry lab look to them. On
top of that, you don't see many American recipes calling for 240 of
anything, and 1/2 cup is more descriptive to me, anyway.
I don't know why it bothers anyone, there is enough software to convert
recipes if people don't like it. Other than that, it seems we *like*
imperial
measurements and so be it.
nancy
The Cook
I am in the US and grow Swiss Chard. Right now I have a row with
white, gold and red stems. Seeds came from a pack labeled Rainbow
chard.
--
Susan N.
"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
George Shirley
> In article<lk1tt5tfi1glh3g25...@4ax.com>,
> Je�us<no...@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2 May 2010 16:15:48 -0700, "Brian Christiansen"
>> <brian_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans) don't
>>> really like either the government or the French telling us what measurement
>>> system we are supposed to use.
>>
>> That's a rather pathetic reason (if indeed it is a reason) not to
>> change to an easier/better system, isn't it?
>>
>> --
>> Je�us
>>
>> May God protect you from his followers.
>
> The Metric system is used universally in the health care and science
> fields. Always. I like metrics better as it's much easier to convert
> numbers by 10's. :-) I do wish we would switch over to it completely!
Join the US military, they've been using metric since the early sixties
to my knowledge. I can do both but prefer feet and inches even if it is
hard to multiply and divide fractions. <G>
George Shirley
I have a row of that and another of Fordhook, just a great big green
leaf with a white stalk. Then there's the crinkled variety and the other
colors. Have seen all but black, guess no one has developed black chard
yet. I prefer chard to all the other types of greens.
George Shirley
wide measures into whatever you want.
Please note that there is a distinct difference between US Standard and
British Imperial.
J. Clarke
> On Sun, 2 May 2010 16:15:48 -0700, "Brian Christiansen"
> <brian_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans) don't
>> really like either the government or the French telling us what measurement
>> system we are supposed to use.
>
> That's a rather pathetic reason (if indeed it is a reason) not to
> change to an easier/better system, isn't it?
It's only "easier" if you're dividing a recipe by 10. Personally I
prefer the binary nature of the English units.
J. Clarke
> "Brian Christiansen" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans)
>> don't> really like either the government or the French telling us what
>> measurement> system we are supposed to use.
>
> Lame excuse. Who do you think established what you think of as American
> standard measures? They actually have the original certified measures in
> Washington DC. I was in university and just out of it when we were supposed
> to be changing to netric. What a joke! Americans were too lazy to bother
> and the government had plenty of problems and didn't push the issue. I got
> a couple of jobs/projects because I was one of the very few designers who
> could produce work in metric and annotated in more than one language.
Any engineer can produce work in metric. Or in the
cubit/stone/fortnight system for that matter. It's all just units.
There's nothing special about metric that makes it wonderful.
> Saying that US folks resist because they don't want to be told what to do is
> facile and egocentric. Everyone else changed, we couldn't or wouldn't and I
> listened to all the excuses. Quietly most of US industry did change over
> because otherwise they couldn't sell their products.
The simple fact is that (a) we don't give a damn and (b) nobody has ever
come up with any kind of compelling reason to do it.
> In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
> because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add, tare
> etc. until done.
What does that have to do with metric? You are confusing measurement by
weight with a system of measurement. I suspect it will be a shock to
you to discover that there are scales calibrated in English units.
> You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise
> soiled cups, etc.
Remind me not to eat at your place.
> Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this
> ior that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
So how do you measure ml without getting those cups greasy?
J. Clarke
Remember the name of Russel Crowe's Australian band? It wasn't "Ten Odd
Meter of Grunts".
James Silverton
> ...
> No I'm not.
"Green onions" seems the most usual term to me. I don't know what is a
"Spring onion" and, while I know what is a "Scallion", I'm not sure that
a worker in the produce department would. Tomato sauce includes
flavorings, tomato paste does not but I'd use tomato paste if I saw
"tomato puree" (not that it's a common term I think).
Australians would seem to use the Indian name, "Besan", for chickpea
flour. The package I bought was also labelled "Gram flour". Is that a
mistake for "Graham flour" tho' I had no idea that Graham flour was made
from chickpeas.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Cindy Hamilton
> In article <847m6sF7q...@mid.individual.net>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "Giusi" <decob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Brian Christiansen" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > > I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans)
> > > don't > really like either the government or the French telling us what
> > > measurement > system we are supposed to use.
>
> > Lame excuse. Who do you think established what you think of as American
> > standard measures? They actually have the original certified measures in
> > Washington DC. I was in university and just out of it when we were supposed
> > to be changing to netric. What a joke! Americans were too lazy to bother
> > and the government had plenty of problems and didn't push the issue. I got
> > a couple of jobs/projects because I was one of the very few designers who
> > could produce work in metric and annotated in more than one language.
>
> > Saying that US folks resist because they don't want to be told what to do is
> > facile and egocentric. Everyone else changed, we couldn't or wouldn't and I
> > listened to all the excuses. Quietly most of US industry did change over
> > because otherwise they couldn't sell their products.
>
> > In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
> > because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add, tare
> > etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise
> > soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this
> > ior that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
>
> What I especially like about Metrics is the liquid to solid to weight
> conversion. 1cc = 1ml = 1gram of liquid. QED!
Only if its specific gravity is close to 1.
Of course, kitchen measurements hardly ever involve 250 ml
of liquid mercury, for example.
Cindy Hamilton
spamtrap1888
> On May 3, 5:27 am, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Chick pea flour in Australia is most commonly known as 'Besan' flour.
> > Not sure if that's a world-wide thing or not.
> My first introduction to chick pea flour was to 'gram flour'. I
> thought they were saying 'graham flour' which was a product my mom
> would add to bread but it looked nothing like that product which is a
> type of whole wheat flour. It took a while to sort out the mistake.
If Australians know chickpea flour as Besan, why don't they call
chickpeas "channa dal"?
That would be consistent.
spamtrap1888
Graham flour and the Graham cracker were invented by the American
Presbyterian minister, Sylvester Graham, as foods that would repress
the sex drive and thus eliminate the urge to masturbate, with all the
ills that attend that unwholesome practice.
atec7 7
> On 5/3/2010 5:54 AM, Geordie Guy wrote:
>> On 3/05/2010 6:16 PM, Je�us wrote:
>>> On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:32:46 -0500, George Shirley
>>> <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have to speak
>>>> Strine
>>>> to understand it.
>>>
>>> Australian versions of measurements?? Quite simply, it's the metric
>>> system.
>>
>>> These days, about the only time we need to use another system is for
>>> cars/machinery that used the old imperial size nut and bolts...
>>> Whitworth etc.
>>
>> Can't agree.
>> I'm 29, and nobody I know 10 years younger through to 40 years older,
>> measures the height of a person in centimeters or meters, it's always
>> feet and inches.
>>
>> I have no idea how far 20 feet is along the ground, but I know I'm "six
>> two".
20 ft is about 6 metres
In every other circumstance it's metric. I'm 6'2" and 85 kilos,
188 cm and 192 lbs
>> and I have no idea what height I am in centimeters, or my weight in
>> pounds (about 160 wouldn't it be? you double it-ish)
>
> Remember the name of Russel Crowe's Australian band? It wasn't "Ten Odd
> Meter of Grunts".
30 odd ft of wacker more like it
>
>
James Silverton
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 5/3/2010 5:54 AM, Geordie Guy wrote:
>>> On 3/05/2010 6:16 PM, Je�us wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:32:46 -0500, George Shirley
>>>> <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have
>>>>> to speak Strine to understand it.
>>>>
>>>> Australian versions of measurements?? Quite simply, it's
>>>> the metric system.
>>>
>>>> These days, about the only time we need to use another
>>>> system is for cars/machinery that used the old imperial
>>>> size nut and bolts... Whitworth etc.
>>>
>>> Can't agree.
>>> I'm 29, and nobody I know 10 years younger through to 40
>>> years older, measures the height of a person in centimeters or
>>> meters, it's always feet and inches.
>>>
>>> I have no idea how far 20 feet is along the ground, but I
>>> know I'm "six two".
> 20 ft is about 6 metres
> In every other circumstance it's metric. I'm 6'2" and 85
> kilos,188 cm and 192 lbs
>>> and I have no idea what height I am in centimeters, or my
>>> weight in pounds (about 160 wouldn't it be? you double
>>> it-ish)
>>
>> Remember the name of Russel Crowe's Australian band? It
>> wasn't "Ten Odd Meter of Grunts".
> 30 odd ft of wacker more like it
>>
As a retired scientist, I still have no trouble switching to Metric. I
can even estimate the ambient temperature in C.
Gabby
wrote:
>
> Australians would seem to use the Indian name, "Besan", for chickpea
> flour. The package I bought was also labelled "Gram flour". Is that a
> mistake for "Graham flour" tho' I had no idea that Graham flour was made
> from chickpeas.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
No, graham flour is whole wheat flour that is milled differently from
your everyday whole wheat flour.
blake murphy
> "James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hrkt35$2kj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Geordie wrote on Mon, 03 May 2010 07:13:35 +1000:
>>
>>> I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients
>>> and what their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are,
>>> it's at http://bit.ly/a8gIcv
>>
>>> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard
>>> any of these, instead saying that all the Australian English
>>> terms were commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might
>>> be more common than others. I'd be curious for people's
>>> comments about what is commonplace and what isn't, and any I
>>> might have missed.
>>
>> Since we American are in the majority, one might, if one was to be
>> obnoxious, say standard English cooking terms with translations for other
>> dialects :-)
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
> But India, Australia, the 'English' part of Canada, and the former British
> colonies in Africa and the Caribbean speak 'Kings English'...it's only us in
> the States who speak 'Merkin'.
> -ginny
i think it's magnanimous of the u.s. to allow them to do that.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
>
> In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
> because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add, tare
> etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise
> soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this
> ior that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
i'm not sure what the unit of measurement has to do with tare weight.
your pal,
blake
Giusi
"blake murphy" <blakepm...@verizon.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:1n7xukrrwvd98
Giusi wrote:
>>
>> In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
>> >> because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add,
>> tare
>> etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or
>> otherwise >> soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still recipes calling
>> for ml of this
>
> i'm not sure what the unit of measurement has to do with tare weight.>
Since you asked! Metric cookery is done with weights. They do not have a
bunch of various sized containers marked 125 ml, 150 ml, we use the scale.
It's just plain easier once you have rewritten the recipes.
James Silverton
Most scales, even the cheapest non-metric, have some sort of taring
mechanism even if it involves turning a knob rather than pressing a
button.
Cooking is not an exact science and there is a good deal of leeway in
measurements. I don't think it matters all that much that 250g is bit
more than half a pound and a liter not quite two pints. What gets me and
I always sense being short changed is beer bottles with 330ml or even
300ml instead of the god-given 354.9ml it should be.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
brooklyn1
Then you obviously don't cook. There certainly are containers marked
for volumetric measurements... all four sizes of my Pyrex measures are
marked in both English and metric volumes.
Dan Abel
Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
> On 3/05/2010 6:16 PM, Je�us wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:32:46 -0500, George Shirley
> > <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> As to Australian versions of measurements, you just have to speak Strine
> >> to understand it.
> >
> > Australian versions of measurements?? Quite simply, it's the metric
> > system.
>
> > These days, about the only time we need to use another system is for
> > cars/machinery that used the old imperial size nut and bolts...
> > Whitworth etc.
>
> Can't agree.
> I'm 29, and nobody I know 10 years younger through to 40 years older,
> measures the height of a person in centimeters or meters, it's always
> feet and inches.
>
> I have no idea how far 20 feet is along the ground, but I know I'm "six
> two". In every other circumstance it's metric. I'm 6'2" and 85 kilos,
> and I have no idea what height I am in centimeters, or my weight in
> pounds (about 160 wouldn't it be? you double it-ish)
187.96cm 187.39 pounds
This group has a loosely associated web page:
http://www.recfoodcooking.com/index.html
There are several handy converters in the upper right corner. There are
also pointers to the FAQ and other handy stuff, like pictures of some of
us.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
brooklyn1
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> blake wrote on Mon, 3 May 2010 10:21:47 -0400:
>
>> On Mon, 3 May 2010 12:18:00 +0200, Giusi wrote:
>>>
>>> In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner
>>> metric is, because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it,
>>> then add, tare, add, tare etc. until done. You don't have to
>>> wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise soiled cups, etc.
>>> Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this ior
>>> that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in
>>> grams.
>
>> i'm not sure what the unit of measurement has to do with tare
>> weight.
>
>Most scales, even the cheapest non-metric, have some sort of taring
>mechanism even if it involves turning a knob rather than pressing a
>button.
That's not true. Most scales have a zeroing mechanism but taring is
only available on the more costly electronic scales... it's not
practical to rezero a mechanical scale for each addition, plus they
only have a very small zeroing range, typically less than 1 ounce.
And whether metric or English has no bearing on cost, most scales in
every price range are calibrated for both.
But regardless how much it's touted the taring feature is rarely used
for cooking. With large volume commercial cooking very few
ingredients are weighed or measured anyway, their recipes use the
entire contents of a package... in fact the standard packaging sizes
were established based on commercial recipes.
David Harmon
<deco...@gmail.com> wrote,
>OTH, in Italy I have to mix flours to get all purpose flour results. It's
>very fine, has more gluten than our 0 or 00, but lots less than our
>Manitoba. Protein percentages would be a useful addition to all flour
>labels, IMO.
There is a good idea. I just looked at my bag of all-purpose; the
obfuscated label says it has three grams of protein for thirty grams of
flour. With the inaccuracies allowed by law (the numbers are rounded to
integers), that comes out to something like eight to twelve percent. I
wonder if the actual composition is controlled any more tightly than
that?
Lou Decruss
>187.96cm 187.39 pounds
>
>This group has a loosely associated web page:
>
>http://www.recfoodcooking.com/index.html
>
>There are several handy converters in the upper right corner. There are
>also pointers to the FAQ and other handy stuff, like pictures of some of
>us.
Wayne (I think) posted this some time ago and it's a great little
program. Not for mac though.
http://joshmadison.com/software/convert-for-windows/
Lou
brooklyn1
wrote:
Wheat flour is a natural product made from grain... the nutritional
values of such products are always approximated within a range.
Dan Abel
<b7d4acf8-387c-4358...@k25g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
spamtrap1888 <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 3, 1:59锟絘m, Gabby <Lavolan...@msn.com> wrote:
> > On May 3, 5:27锟絘m, Je锟絬s <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Chick pea flour in Australia is most commonly known as 'Besan' flour.
> > > Not sure if that's a world-wide thing or not.
> > > --
> > > Je锟絬s
> >
> > My first introduction to chick pea flour was to 'gram flour'. 锟絀
> > thought they were saying 'graham flour' which was a product my mom
> > would add to bread but it looked nothing like that product which is a
> > type of whole wheat flour. 锟絀t took a while to sort out the mistake.
>
> Graham flour and the Graham cracker were invented by the American
> Presbyterian minister, Sylvester Graham, as foods that would repress
> the sex drive and thus eliminate the urge to masturbate, with all the
> ills that attend that unwholesome practice.
I believe that is why corn flakes were invented by the Kellogg brothers,
also. One of them had some unbelievable number of children. All were
adopted, of course, since he and his wife never had sex.
Dan Abel
Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
> On 3/05/2010 6:51 PM, Gabby wrote:
> > Rutabagas are called rutabagas in some areas and turnips in the
> > Atlantic provinces. In the areas where they are called rutabagas you
> > often find turnips but you hardly ever see turnips in the areas where
> > rutabagas are called turnips. ;o) As for 'swedes', I've only ever
> > seen that in the dictionary.
>
> Swedes and turnips are different. Swedes are yellow with a purple
> "corona" and ball shaped. Turnips are white, and the same shape as
> carrots - right?
The turnips I've seen in the US are often white, but they are ball
shaped. Parsnips are white, and long and thin like many carrots. Note
that some carrots are ball shaped. Look at any of the recent pictures
that Steve Wertz has posted of carrots. They are all ball shaped.
Dan Abel
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> Australians would seem to use the Indian name, "Besan", for chickpea
> flour. The package I bought was also labelled "Gram flour". Is that a
> mistake for "Graham flour" tho' I had no idea that Graham flour was made
> from chickpeas.
The second definition for gram in my US dictionary is:
chickpeas or other legumes used as food
Dan Abel
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What I especially like about Metrics is the liquid to solid to weight
> conversion. 1cc = 1ml = 1gram of liquid. QED!
I like that also, although you need to be a little careful, since it
really only applies to water. Most kitchen liquids are close enough,
though. Still, if you are measuring liquid mercury in the lab, don't
rely on that conversion!
spamtrap1888
wrote:
> The message <e4064cf8-bc5d-4755-8cfe-8235f0839...@32g2000prq.googlegroups.com>
> from spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> contains these words:
>
> > On May 2, 2:13 pm, Geordie Guy <g...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
> > > their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are, it's
>
> > > One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
> > > these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
> > > commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
> > > others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
> > > and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
>
> Brits use courgette, where Americans use zucchini. Marrows are much
> bigger and used differently.
Hold off on picking your "courgette" and watch it become a marrow.
>
> > Brits don't tend to use foreign words for things except for French.
>
> Of course we do. Our language(and culinary terms) include words from
> many different languages ( including our previous colonies).
> Pizza, spaghetti, pasta, coleslaw, brocolli
>
I'll modify my assertion to "garden vegetables," and note broccoli as
an exception.
Dan Abel
Janet Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> The message <dabel-C811BE....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>
> from Dan Abel <da...@sonic.net> contains these words:
>
> > In article <3130303039303...@zetnet.co.uk>,
> > Janet Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > The message <hrkt35$2kj$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
> > > from "James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> contains
> > > these words:
>
> > > > Since we American are in the majority, one might, if one was to be
> > > > obnoxious, say standard English cooking terms with translations for
> > > > other dialects :-)
> > >
> > > You may be a majority in rfc, but hardly in Geordie's blog.
> > > afaik, America is not the majority of English speakers, either.
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Geographical_distribution
>
> > As far as English as a first language, out of 375 million, 215 are in
> > the US.
>
> You're overlooking the far greater number of bi or multi lingual
> people today, who are absolutely fluent English speakers.
I didn't overlook them, I just didn't see them first. See the cite
below.
> English is the official language in 33 countries .
Interestingly enough, it's not the official language in the US, UK or
Australia. And in many countries where it is an official language, it
isn't the most common spoken language.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
>
> Janet
ewdotson
wrote:
> "Jeßus" <n...@all.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:lk1tt5tfi1glh3g25...@4ax.com...> That's a rather pathetic reason (if indeed it is a reason) not to
> > change to an easier/better system, isn't it?
>
> Metric makes more matematical "sense" than conventional measurement, and it
> is perhaps easier for most people to use decimals rather than fractions
> (decimals are just "easier" fractions, they are still fractions). However,
> I don't cook because it makes "mathematical" sense, I cook/bake because I
> enjoy the process and the finished product.
>
> The government/French or anyone else telling me how I am supposed to measure
> stuff because it is "better" takes the enjoyment out of it.
>
> Brian Christiansen
It isn't really a case of one system making more sense than the other
from a mathematically standpoint. They're simply in different bases.
Metric is base 10, the US customary system is base 2.
If you don't have the ability to make precise measurements, base 2 is
rather easier to work with. That is, if I gave you a gallon of water
and some empty containers, you could probably do a fairly respectable
job of dividing the water into halves and then halves again to get
quarts. On the other hand, if I gave you a liter of water, you'd
likely have a harder time measuring out deciliters by hand and eye.
--
Ernest
J. Clarke
You are conflating "European cookery" with "metric cookery". Cooking
with weights has nothing to do with metric. It's simply a choice
someone made.
Melba's Jammin'
Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've written a blog entry about American names for ingredients and what
> their rest-of-English-speaking-world equivalents are, it's at
> http://bit.ly/a8gIcv
>
> One American friend expressed surprise that she'd never heard any of
> these, instead saying that all the Australian English terms were
> commonplace. That's not accurate, but some might be more common than
> others. I'd be curious for people's comments about what is commonplace
> and what isn't, and any I might have missed.
>
> - G
http://vsack.homepage.t-online.de/rfc_faq0.html
--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
Updated 4-24-2010 with food story and pictures
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
<342259c5-b001-441e...@d19g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
ewdotson <ewdo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It isn't really a case of one system making more sense than the other
> from a mathematically standpoint. They're simply in different bases.
> Metric is base 10, the US customary system is base 2.
>
> If you don't have the ability to make precise measurements, base 2 is
> rather easier to work with. That is, if I gave you a gallon of water
> and some empty containers, you could probably do a fairly respectable
> job of dividing the water into halves and then halves again to get
> quarts. On the other hand, if I gave you a liter of water, you'd
> likely have a harder time measuring out deciliters by hand and eye.
My question is why do Europeans give a flying fig what units we use
here? Other than for the purposes of conversion, I mean. Why get your
panties in a wad over this?
Regards,
Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
> > Tomato sauce, topmato puree, and tomato paste are all three
> > different forms of processed tomato used here in the US.
>
> Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It depends on the area of
> the US, and apparently what phase the moon is in.
Or, you could take the word of actual Americans who actually see
these products in the store, buy them and use them. You might try it,
since you asked for input.
Doug Freyburger
>
> Since you asked! Metric cookery is done with weights. They do not have a
> bunch of various sized containers marked 125 ml, 150 ml, we use the scale.
> It's just plain easier once you have rewritten the recipes.
Having tried to cook by weight and by volume, even with several scales
on the counter, I find it bizzare that anyone would consider cooking by
weight easier. It's more accurate, produced more consistant results and
so on. Plenty of reasons but easier is definitely not in the list.
Cooking by volume is easier when tried side by side.
Here's why Americans don't want their day to day system changed to
metric - It's easier to cook by volume and there's no such thing as a
liter. I didn't save I was going to give a rantional or true reason now
did I? ;^)
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
"Giusi" <deco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have USA cookbooks dating back to 1899 and have never seen the term brown
> mix.
Neither have I.
> >> "All Purpose Flour" and "Plain Flour" is getting a little picky.
> >
> > No, not really. You won't ever, ever, find a single packet of flour in>
> > Australia with "all purpose flour" written on it, it's always plain>
> > flour, and we use self raising flour more than is common elsewhere. So
> > "all purpose flour" is almost as likely to mean one as the other.
>
> OTH, in Italy I have to mix flours to get all purpose flour results. It's
> very fine, has more gluten than our 0 or 00, but lots less than our
> Manitoba. Protein percentages would be a useful addition to all flour
> labels, IMO. I have had to make marginally ok batches over and over to find
> what mixture works to replace the ubiquitous all-purpose.
Problem with protein percentages, is that the way servings are
calculated, they get rounded too closely in flours. Flours that are
vastly different in protein content seem close because of this.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
<dabel-ADD81C....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Dan Abel <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
> All were
> adopted, of course, since he and his wife never had sex.
With each other. Dr. Kellogg was insane and weird.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
> I've had plenty of fights over the chard thing, because while chard and
> silverbeet are the same thing, the variety you get in the US is usually
> different to that grown elsewhere (it frequently has a pink or red stalk).
That would be like giving Valencia and navel oranges a different
designation, simply because they are different varieties. They are
still both oranges.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
George Shirley <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I have a row of that and another of Fordhook, just a great big green
> leaf with a white stalk. Then there's the crinkled variety and the other
> colors. Have seen all but black, guess no one has developed black chard
> yet. I prefer chard to all the other types of greens.
We have rhubarb, neon lights and vulcan chard. Chard and kale are
our favorite greens (not counting things like lettuce and cabbage). We
don't grow mustards or collards and don't eat turnip greens, really.
Though I have a recipe for a turnip gratin that includes both the root
and the greens.
James Silverton
> On 5/3/2010 10:39 AM, Giusi wrote:
>> "blake murphy"<blakepm...@verizon.net> ha scritto nel
>> messaggio news:1n7xukrrwvd98 Giusi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much
>>>> cleaner metric is,
>>> >>> because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it,
>>> >>> then add, tare, add,
>>>> tare
>>>> etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of
>>>> greasy or
>>> otherwise>>> soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still
>>> otherwise>>> recipes calling
>>>> for ml of this
>>>> or that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
>>>
>>> i'm not sure what the unit of measurement has to do with
>>> tare weight.>
>>
>> Since you asked! Metric cookery is done with weights. They do not
>> have a bunch of various sized containers marked 125
>> ml, 150 ml, we use the scale. It's just plain easier once you
>> have rewritten the recipes.
Fannie Farmer introduced the idea of moderately precise measurements in
cooking, no pinches or handfuls, and in her time volumetric measures
were more accessible than sets of weights in an average kitchen. Scales
have become less expensive and cumbersome and thus European home cooks
seem to prefer weights once they finally got the idea of measurement but
American (and often British) cooks follow Fannie. I don't know whether
volume measure is faster or slower but it works well enough. One set of
spoons and one of cups can be hung on a pegboard and a scale capable of
precisely measuring from a 1/4 teaspoon to 2 cups by weight is not
really cheap.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Melba's Jammin'
Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
> On 3/05/2010 7:00 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> > On Mon, 03 May 2010 07:13:35 +1000, Geordie Guy wrote:
> > Tomato sauce, topmato puree, and tomato paste are all three
> > different forms of processed tomato used here in the US.
>
> Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It depends on the area of
> the US, and apparently what phase the moon is in.
Not really. The first three links are to pages at the United States
Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Marketing Service.
SOI for tomato paste
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3010852
SOI for tomato catsup:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3010835
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3010853
Info about concentrated tomato products
http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title21/21-2.0.1.1.29.2.1.7.html
Dan Abel
<342259c5-b001-441e...@d19g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
ewdotson <ewdo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It isn't really a case of one system making more sense than the other
> from a mathematically standpoint. They're simply in different bases.
> Metric is base 10, the US customary system is base 2.
>
> If you don't have the ability to make precise measurements, base 2 is
> rather easier to work with. That is, if I gave you a gallon of water
> and some empty containers, you could probably do a fairly respectable
> job of dividing the water into halves and then halves again to get
> quarts. On the other hand, if I gave you a liter of water, you'd
> likely have a harder time measuring out deciliters by hand and eye.
Base 2? 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 1728 yards in a mile.
Quick! How many inches in .0138 miles?
Want volume? How many teaspoons in a tablespoon? How many tablespoons
in a cup? How many cups in a fifth of wine?
Melba's Jammin'
> "Geordie Guy" ha scritto nel messaggio
> Sqwertz wrote:
>
>
> >> Tomato sauce, topmato puree, and tomato paste are all three>> different
> >> forms of processed tomato used here in the US.
> >
> > Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It depends on the area of> the
> > US, and apparently what phase the moon is in.
>
> No, that's not true. The FDA has rules on what must be in there to be
> called this or that. If you make it differently, you are forced to call it
> "imitation" or whatever even if your product is btter and more like
> homemade. Mayonnaise and ice cream are two notable examples.
Right, and I just posted a few links to the Standards of Identity pages
for tomato paste, catsup, puree.
Kalmia
> "Green Onions" are more common than Scallion, and Spring Onion is
> not a scallion or green onion.
A lot of my recipes always call for scallions, and I wish they WOULD
call them green onions. I always have to do a double think about
scallions and shallots. But, if I happen to confuse the two, I doubt
the taste would be abhorrent.
brooklyn1
<dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Giusi wrote:
>>
>> Since you asked! Metric cookery is done with weights. They do not have a
>> bunch of various sized containers marked 125 ml, 150 ml, we use the scale.
>> It's just plain easier once you have rewritten the recipes.
>
>Having tried to cook by weight and by volume, even with several scales
>on the counter, I find it bizzare that anyone would consider cooking by
>weight easier.
Depends on the ingredients and the quantity specified. It's much
easier to weigh dry ingredients in any quantity more than a cup...
items like sugar,flour, beans, and pasta are more convenient to
weigh... and it's certainly more convenient to weigh meats.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
<dabel-F2F79B....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Dan Abel <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Want volume? How many teaspoons in a tablespoon?
3
> How many tablespoons in a cup?
16
> How many cups in a fifth of wine?
I don't know. But that's because I don't know what the volume of a
fifth of wine is.
Ranee at Arabian Knits
Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Having tried to cook by weight and by volume, even with several scales
> on the counter, I find it bizzare that anyone would consider cooking by
> weight easier. It's more accurate, produced more consistant results and
> so on. Plenty of reasons but easier is definitely not in the list.
> Cooking by volume is easier when tried side by side.
>
> Here's why Americans don't want their day to day system changed to
> metric - It's easier to cook by volume and there's no such thing as a
> liter. I didn't save I was going to give a rantional or true reason now
> did I? ;^)
I agree. It is no more difficult to measure length by centimeters or
inches, but I am more familiar with what an inch looks like, so I tend
to convert when I am knitting or sewing or crocheting. However, it much
simpler to use cups and teaspoons for me than to weigh everything out,
precision notwithstanding. Since cooking rarely requires that kind of
precision anyway, I don't worry about it.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
<f284303f-2e8d-4935...@y12g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Kalmia <tween...@mypacks.net> wrote:
> A lot of my recipes always call for scallions, and I wish they WOULD
> call them green onions. I always have to do a double think about
> scallions and shallots. But, if I happen to confuse the two, I doubt
> the taste would be abhorrent.
Whereas I use scallions exclusively. Scallions are onions, but they
aren't simply the greens from onions, which is what I think of when I
hear green onions. I will use green onions if I don't have scallions
and I have onions with greens on them, but we grow scallions separately
from our regular onion crop. Separated further from our shallots, leeks
and garlic.
Doug Freyburger
> Geordie Guy <gg...@NOSPAMrecognisedexpertsSRSLY.com> wrote:
>
>> > Tomato sauce, topmato puree, and tomato paste are all three
>> > different forms of processed tomato used here in the US.
>>
>> Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. It depends on the area of
>> the US, and apparently what phase the moon is in.
>
> Or, you could take the word of actual Americans who actually see
> these products in the store, buy them and use them. You might try it,
> since you asked for input.
Reporting as an American who reads labels - The ingredients on the
labels for these items changes over the years. A decade ago I looked
for tomato paste that was just tomatoes. I think I went through 3-4
brands that had added high fructose corn syrup before I found Contadina
brand. Last year I read the labels on all of the brands again. Now all
are just tomatoes.
It might not depend on the phase of the moon, but it does depend on the
phase of the generation.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I didn't mean that none of them have junk in them, just that they are
distinct preparations. Tomato sauce is cooked, usually has some
combination of onion/garlic/celery/peppers/oregano/basil/salt, plus
whatever else they want to muck in there. Tomato puree is pureed
tomato, only cooking is the canning, AFAIK, with salt, probably sugar in
most brands (though if you do it yourself, you don't need any sugar).
Tomato paste is highly concentrated tomato puree that is cooked down to
a thick paste consistency, has salt in it usually, maybe some form of
sugar. What goes into them might change, but the texture and method is
relatively constant.
George Shirley
I didn't like turnip greens either until I tried Tokyo Cross, an all
white turnip. The greens from that variety are very nice. I still won't
eat cooked turnips though, only pickled ones. I have never liked kale
but DW eats it on occasion. Her mother used to make a ham stuffed with
kale on holidays and I just ate the ham. Kale stuffed ham is supposed to
be a delicacy in Southern Maryland.
gloria.p
> "Brian Christiansen" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> Saying that US folks resist because they don't want to be told what to do is
> facile and egocentric. Everyone else changed, we couldn't or wouldn't and I
> listened to all the excuses. Quietly most of US industry did change over
> because otherwise they couldn't sell their products.
>
> In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
> because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add, tare
> etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise
> soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this
> ior that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
>
>
I agree that the switch to metric measurement was unsuccessful because
Americans were too lazy and/or too scared to learn it. It was like
learning a foreign language, "too much work" for the average person.
I also don't think the government or schools worked hard enough on the
transition to make it palatable.
I remember clearly many of the fears, having to learn new measurements
for travel(km), food (grams, kilos, liters) and even sewing (buying
fabric by the meter?) Oh, noooooo! As a result we have had two or three
more generations who have successfully ignored the concept.
gloria p
Dan Abel
<arabianknits-8A92...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Ran�e at Arabian Knits <arabia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <dabel-F2F79B....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Dan Abel <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > Want volume? How many teaspoons in a tablespoon?
>
> 3
>
> > How many tablespoons in a cup?
>
> 16
>
> > How many cups in a fifth of wine?
>
> I don't know. But that's because I don't know what the volume of a
> fifth of wine is.
It's a fifth of a gallon. 16 cups in a gallon, so 3.2 cups.
But the point is that a lot of our measurements aren't base 2, and are
difficult to convert.
Arri London
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> On May 3, 6:33 am, Omelet <ompome...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <847m6sF7q...@mid.individual.net>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Giusi" <decob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "Brian Christiansen" ha scritto nel messaggio
> >
> > > > I also think that it is partially due to the fact that we (Americans)
> > > > don't > really like either the government or the French telling us what
> > > > measurement > system we are supposed to use.
> >
> > > Lame excuse. Who do you think established what you think of as American
> > > standard measures? They actually have the original certified measures in
> > > Washington DC. I was in university and just out of it when we were supposed
> > > to be changing to netric. What a joke! Americans were too lazy to bother
> > > and the government had plenty of problems and didn't push the issue. I got
> > > a couple of jobs/projects because I was one of the very few designers who
> > > could produce work in metric and annotated in more than one language.
> >
> > > Saying that US folks resist because they don't want to be told what to do is
> > > facile and egocentric. Everyone else changed, we couldn't or wouldn't and I
> > > listened to all the excuses. Quietly most of US industry did change over
> > > because otherwise they couldn't sell their products.
> >
> > > In the kitchen, students are blown away with how much cleaner metric is,
> > > because you can put a bowl on the scale, tare it, then add, tare, add, tare
> > > etc. until done. You don't have to wash up a bunch of greasy or otherwise
> > > soiled cups, etc. Right now there are still recipes calling for ml of this
> > > ior that, but gradually even liquids are being expressed in grams.
> >
> > What I especially like about Metrics is the liquid to solid to weight
> > conversion. 1cc = 1ml = 1gram of liquid. QED!
>
> Only if its specific gravity is close to 1.
>
> Of course, kitchen measurements hardly ever involve 250 ml
> of liquid mercury, for example.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
Actually I've got a recipe... (TINR)
We should be putting the chemistry into 'cookbook chemistry'. LOL