Woodturning: Craft or Art?
Spydaman
woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure for
my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
(watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
(without ever seeing any of my work) that woodturning was not considered
art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better off
displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of the
work. Was she being a snob? Do you consider yourself a craftsman or
artist?
James Gaydos
attended. Most of them were painters,jewelery makers, and potters. A lot
of the galleries in my area ,do not see woodturning as art.
I do not consider woodturning as an art,as much as I do a learned skill.
If your are making a utilitarian product,something that a person can
use,like a box,candle stick,top,or a bowl or platter ,it used to be
included with,items such as treen ware.
There are woodturnings,that I would consider as an art object,something
that is placed on a table,or shelf,to be admired,but has no other useful
perpose.
Its a lot like someone who does pottery,some of it can be used as a food
storage container,most of it seams to sit on a bookcase shelf,looking
good.
In the last 15 years,woodturning has taken on a lot of attention,to some
it is art,but to most it is a craft. Damn those snoty painters. If you
have access to the September 1996 issue of Woodturning Magazine,on the
cover is a Grecian urn,it is truly a peice of art. MHO Jim
Joe Fleming
My only quibble with your comment is that art must be non-utilitarian. There is an
interesting parallel discussion occurring right now about Norman Rockwell's work.
Some question his art because it is too literal and primarily done for a magazine
cover (utilitarian use). One of my favorite art pieces is a turned bowl done by a
friend. I display it as art and don't use it to hold other objects. I do let
people handle it, though, because it is more like a sculpture than a painting.
Joe
Jim Gott wrote:
> HI, Spy.
> I think she was being a snob. Not all painters are artists, either.
> I consider myself both a craftsman and an artist. I think the person you spoke
> to made a snap judgment, not having seen your work. She obviously had a
> preconception of what woodturning is, i.e. salad bowls, treen, etc. when she
> said that. Ceramics and woodcarvings are crafts, also. It's not the medium, but
> the item produced that makes a craft an object of art. If it's utilitarian it's
> probably a craft item, if it's an expressive, non-utilitarian piece with
> creativity and vision, it's an art piece.
> There are painters and there are artists.
> Just my opinion.
> -Jim Gott
Fred Holder
there are many artists who use woodturning as their medium. There are also a lot
of people who slop watercolor onto paper that are not artists even though they
try to call themselves artists. In my opinion, an artist is an artist, no matter
what medium he or she choses. If their medium is turned wood then they will make
art from it. There are those such as your water color artist, who think that
woodturning is a craft and it is, but there are many fine artists that use
woodturning to make their art.
I personally am not an artist even though I've had people look at my work and
call me an artist. I'm a good woodturner. Sometimes, I turn a piece that can be
considered art, but mostly I simply turn nice pieces of wood into nice pieces of
something. I think that there are more of us who do as I do than there are that
create beautiful pieces of art. If you are an artist, you deserve to be called
an artist whether you turn wood or you paint with watercolors on paper. I do not
believe we should get carried away considering ourselves artists because we turn
nice pieces. An artist is a special kind of person that is somewhat difficult to
define. If you feel you are an artist, then believe that you are one and call
yourself one, your work is likely as good as any of the artists in the guild. At
least that has been my experience.
It don't know whether this was the sort of thing you were looking for, but it is
my two cents worth on the subject. I don't feel we woodturners should start
calling ourselves artists unless we actually are artists and not just
woodturners.
Fred Holder
<http://www.fholder.com/>
In article <383DCB...@shaka.com>, Spydaman says...
Fred Holder
<http://www.fholder.com/>
ecl01
most of his work - but he is not considered an 'artist' by the local
artist's association because he did not go to college and graduate with a
degree in art. So ... yes ... "she was begin a very typical artist snob".
e
Spydaman <spyd...@shaka.com> wrote in message
news:383DCB...@shaka.com...
Eric Person
wrote:
>snip... Was she being a snob?
Yep, she was also right in the sense that our medium isn't among the
traditional "Fine Arts" save as a crafty area of sculpture.
>Do you consider yourself a craftsman or artist?
I'm a craftsman. I'm waiting to molt into an artist. as I do more
pieces and grow in the craft, my abilities are catching up with my
imagination, and my vessels and bowls look like some of those I've
seen on the web and elsewhere.
But, if the picture at http://www.kelton.co.nz/gallery/gall10.html
isn't art, Shakespeare was a copywriter.
And there are quite a few out there that are contributing to pushing
the limits--It's notable that we've formed a group away from rec.
woodworking, but our middle name is "craft"... I believe there was
discussion about this when we formed, then I sliced ten out of twelve
of the tendons in my right wrist accidentally and dropped out for a
year or so (not fun to be reminded that I was once right handed...and
a turner)
I was in Hawaii (Maui) in June and I saw turnings that fell into both
categories--A gallery in Lahaina had some pieces in spalted norfolk
pine that, while I didn't really dig too much were undeniably intended
and executed as art. The turner achieved that, but I personally wasn't
entranced by them.
There was also alot of monkeypod crap that looked either machine
duplicated or sweat shopped out of polynesia. It was all over, notably
at the ABC stores. To call that craft is a stretch.
And everything in-between. A fellow in Makawao had some stuff that
looked like things I'd made, only smaller, and I figure he is a
craftsman, and sells his stuff in a gallery...and more power to him!
But then, I've just finished a piece of burl that a friend found out
windsurfing on the Columbia River and hauled on to California and back
to Minnesota and through our winter, unprotected in the back of his
truck. Beautiful, distinct two tone with one spot from a small branch
that reminds me of pine. I think it's art, and if anyone can tell me
what kind of wood it's made of, I'd appreciate it!
I've also done some low, flattish hollow vessels of spalted birch that
people drop their jaws at and can't believe are made of wood. I think
they get there as well.
Interested to see how others weigh in on this one--How can those
Moulthroup (pardon my butchery of thy name!) vessels not be art?
erp
Jim Gott
Grusserry
artist. If we work in a "shop", then we are a crafter.
DSIFERS
of the space there and discourage ANY new artists.
You said she was a painter, and I have this barn that could use a fresh coat...
Olivier de Goër
astonished.
For me, the difference between craft and art is there ; a watercolour
painter who paints landscapes or flowers without renewing anything, just
imitating what has been done since years (or centuries) is not more an
artist than the woodturner who makes utilitarians : it's only reproduction
not creation. The same for musicians : few are real artists.
And we all know the names of some woodturners which have completely renewed
woodturning and it's produced objects. Those are artists : they make evolve
the language, there's emotion in their turnings (better : in their turned
sculptures).
But we have habits. A musician or a painter is automaticaly called an
artist, even indue ; a woodturner is called a craftsman. Flattering for the
ones, so they value it, but sometimes frustrating for the second.
I think that your "artist" paintress, so strongly valuing her artistic
status is probably not one : a real artist don't need that !
Olivier.
Derek
the present, I ask the Q as to whether that type of work is art or not, or
just being creative, which I think most woodturners are anyhow, we create an
(hopefully) artistic object out of a rough old dried up piece of wood,
sometimes rescued off the firewood pile.....I had a comment made to me a few
days ago when I took a batch of pens to the place that sells them for me,
placed them on the counter top and a woman browsing in there spotted them
and said "what beautifully CRAFTED pens" and bought 2 !!!...I rest my case
Regards
--
DerekC
DSIFERS <dsi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991126004754...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
tto...@mbox.vol.cz
Spydaman <spyd...@shaka.com> wrote:
> I was considering joining a local artists guild since they lacked any
> woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
> even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure
for
> my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
> (watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
> (without ever seeing any of my work) that woodturning was not
considered
> art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better
off
> displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
> names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of
the
> artist?
In my opinion,
there's only a hair difference between 'art' and 'craft' (as
well as art and kitsch, erotic and pornography).....
Many great and famous artists (who might have been great
PEOPLE as well) considered painting to be a sort of craft and claimed
there was not big art without craft....
Someone who claims woodturning isn' t art is neither very
clever nor very tolerant.... BTW, how good are her water-colour
paintings?
Have a nice weekend,
Tomas Tomsej,
Bohemia
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Duke of URLs©
>She stated I would probley be better off displaying my works at a crafts fair,
>even after giving her a list of names of galleries where my work has been
>on display, and prices of the work. Was she being a snob?
How best to put this? I don't think she is a snob really. I think
maybe she's suffering from a problem of not knowing what she
thinks she knows. If she refuses to learn, then that's a whole
'nother problem. It's too bad you have to suffer her ignorance
with her.
I am reminded of a story about Wendell Castle. He'd done a beautiful
table and had laminated a board to the surface. The board was then
carved to look like an open book. It wasn't considered art until it
was noted that the book was fixed to the table top and couldn't be
removed.
>Do you consider yourself a craftsman or artist?
Personally I like *artisan* which unfortunately is defined by Webster
as *craftsman*. I guess in the real world though the connotations of
being a craftsman are better than if you try and go through as an
artist.
In the long run it is their loss. So many groups like this suffer
from a lack of membership and to exclude someone who's gifted at
*anything* even remotely considered art is shameful and sounds
*clicheish*.
Keith Bohn
James Gaydos
I have a friend that is a Nationaly known water color artist. Whenever
she comes to town ,to do a show,she wants to see what I've been
doing.She has made a living as an artist (painting -watercolors) for
over 35 years,and has sold some paintings for as much as $10,000. She is
very good.
And I am constantly amazed at what she does. Like wise she is fasinated
by some of the turnings I've done. She does not have a degree in art,is
self taught,and is reconized on a national level as an artist.
At one time,early in her career,she would attempt to sell her work on a
street corner. I know a few people that attended art school,have a
degree,and cant produce anything that I would consider art,but they have
a degree.And that makes them an artist??? I dont think so.
My friend gave me a book two years ago :
"The Artists Way" by Julia Cameron
It is a course in discovering and recovering your creative self,A
spiritual path to higher cerativity.the author wrote the book for
,writers,poets,painters,musicians--and Creative people in all walks of
life. It has helped me in a lot of ways.Now when I go to my
(shop,studio)I can decide if I am an artist,or a craftsman.
Today I'm going to be an artist(going to my studio),come Monday,I'll
need to be a craftsman,back to work at the cabinet shop.Be an artist,be
a craftsman,the best of both worlds,go create! Jim
Diane Learmonth
I certainly don't consider my self an artist (actually I feel I have less
artistic skill than anyone I know). That doesn't keep me from really
enjoying the pastime.
BUT, some of the work I've seen I do consider as art. It isn't
functional and I'd love to display it in my home or office. Isn't art
supposed to be "in the eye of the beholder?" I say she's a snob. Shouldn't
artistic people be broadminded enough to appreciate art in forms other than
their own?
ART (no pun intended) LEARMONTH
Spydaman wrote:
> I was considering joining a local artists guild since they lacked any
> woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
> even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure for
> my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
> (watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
> (without ever seeing any of my work) that woodturning was not considered
> art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better off
> displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
> names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of the
> work. Was she being a snob? Do you consider yourself a craftsman or
> artist?
Juergen
in an art gallery)say, "That the less usefull the item is the more it's
worth." Maybe lack usefullness is a criteria for determining art. After
all what do you do with the statue of David but admire it?
There is also an old saying that, "All artist are craftsmen, but not
all craftsman are artists."
Enough of the the philosophy, what important is the satisfaction one
get from the art/craft, even if only your loved ones think its art.
Juergen
In article <5996-383...@storefull-106.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Joseph S. Wisniewski
>
> I was considering joining a local artists guild since they lacked any
> woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
> even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure for
> my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
> (watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
> (without ever seeing any of my work)
By my standards, it is she who is not an artist. Not because she does
watercolors, but because her mind is closed: she judges without seeing.
I work in watercolors, glassblowing, glass engraving, woodturning, and
photography. All are art, if one expresses themselves artistically. I've
won awards in all five artforms.
I used to get the "it's a craft, not an art", all the time regarding my
glassblowing, untill all those "Dale Chilhuli" specials on PBS.
> that woodturning was not considered
> art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better off
> displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
> names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of the
> work. Was she being a snob?
Very much so.
> Do you consider yourself a craftsman or artist?
Both. When I make a flute on the lathe, cutting the details in a fashion
which duplicates the decoration of an antique flute (or even one of my
existing flutes) no matter how well I do it, it's craft. When I create
one of my wild spindle things (OK, some of my stuff is hard to
describe), it's art. I guess, the defining factor is emotion. If it
expresses something (and that something is visible to someone other than
it's creator) it's art.
Then again, I view about 90% of watercolor painters as "crafters" not
artists, because some of their work is full of technique, but lacking in
content.
Of course, one of the things that most works against the image of
woodturners as artists is that we have the "duplicating lathe". This
does something relatively unique in the arts, it duplicates the act of
creation. It's not in the same league as printing multiple photographs
from one negative, or making prints from a painting, because in other
arts, it's the creation of the "master" that is the real work.
p.s. as far as snobbery, about the only time I mention my art degree is
when I need to quiet someone down a bit, with a line like "yes, I got a
BFA a while back. Took me a few years after that to recover from the
damage it did me and GET MY ART BACK".
Just my opinion.
Ciao!
Joe
Darrell Feltmate
If I build a beautiful guitar with a gorgeous finish, I am a craftsman. If I
play it, especially classical guitat, I am an artist. I will take my
construction over my playing any day. One of the jokes around our turning
shops over here is "if it can't hold water, it's art."
Seriously, I consider my turning to be craftsmanship, sometimes good
craftsmanship. Some of it approaches art, but it is really a copy of someone
else's art. If someone likes it as utilitarian, I am flattered, if someone
likes it to just hold or look at, I am flattered. The designation becomes
immaterial.
Something to think about. If I turn a vase, which is just exposing the
beauty of the wood God made, people usually call it craft. If I carve a bird
and hide the wood's beauty by painting it to look as close as I can to God's
creation (okay, not close but I am trying), people call it art. now that
hurts.
You know, I like turning even with the snobs out there. Fell sorry for them,
they do not know any better and do not seem to want to learn.
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Andrew Barss
: On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:50:47 -1000, Spydaman <spyd...@shaka.com>
: wrote:
: >snip... Was she being a snob?
: Yep, she was also right in the sense that our medium isn't among the
: traditional "Fine Arts" save as a crafty area of sculpture.
It's historically true that the distinction between "fine art" and
"craft" was established by the court of one of the King Louises of France
(I can never keep the XIV and XV ones straight). There's no need to
maintain a 200-year-old distinction. Any gallery owner who does is a
snob, and although not all snobs are bad, sounds like she's keeping some
fine work out of her gallery.
-- Andrew Barss
Lwardret94
I checked with my wife and told her about the Shop VS Studio. Told her I was
going to go out to my studio. She laughed at me. Guess I'm a craftsman.
Larry Ward
George Nazarko
individual, framed by a third is neither artist nor craftsman, but a
merchant.
I've always said that what I do is held to a higher standard than 2D,
because people look underneath and behind. Ever see 'em checking out the
back of a painting?
Juergen wrote in message <81mfpk$kbd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
James Gaydos
Olivier de Goër
Duke of URLs© a écrit dans le message <383e728c$0$42...@news.execpc.com>...
>Personally I like *artisan* which unfortunately is defined by Webster
>as *craftsman*. I guess in the real world though the connotations of
>being a craftsman are better than if you try and go through as an
>artist.
Excuse-me, but I've a small translation problem : what's the difference
between artisans and craftsman ?
Thanks for your help. Olivier (France).
Olivier de Goër
Darrell Feltmate a écrit dans le message
<60z%3.163$p6....@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca>...
>If I build a beautiful guitar with a gorgeous finish, I am a craftsman. If
I
Why classical only ? A bad classical player is not an artist, whilst a good
jazz guitarist is one !
NO NO NO, to play with a music instrument does NOT signify you are an
artist, not more that the painter with his watercolour. It's not enough.
And a turner can sometimes be an artist but it's rare too.
Olivier.
DSchWdTurn
A laborer is One that works with their hands.
A Craftsman is one that works with their hands and their mind.
An Artist is one that works with their hands, mind and all of their Heart.
Spydaman
Mahalo for all the input on this subject, your viewpoints are much
appreciated. I've decided to hold off joining that Artist Guild,
though I have been encouraged by other members of the guild. They
require $50.00 up front, then my work has to pass the scrutiny of a
panel of judges to see if my work is worthy of their high standards.
Then if, and only if, I get their seal of approval, then I have to wait
3 months before my work goes on display at their gallery, a long waiting
list you know. Then after all that, I am required to man the gallery
for one day a month. I'm gonna pass, I'll just stick with the galleries
that already are more than happy to display my work. Mahalo (thanks)
again for all the input.
A hui hou, Spy in Hawaii
Kevin & Theresa Miller
I don't suppose it's hard and fast, but I've always intrepreted a
craftsman as someone skilled at producing something - maybe they're
a house carpenter, or maybe a basket weaver or any of many other such
endeavers. An artisan, to me, is one that produces similar items, only
with an artistic element.
Thus, in turning, we could have a craftsman turning out identical
chair leg spindles by the hundreds, whereas an artisan might be
turning some unique pieces that are beyond simply useful, but not
really breaking any new ground artistically. The artist turner
would be one that focuses on form and related attributes such as
texture, and color over and above function. Not that the piece can't
be functional, but every element is a conscious design statement.
My .02 worth anyway...
...Kevin
--
Kevin & Theresa Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Grusserry
Frank Harman
Regarding the current discussions about woodturning being an art form or a
craft, I would like to suggest that you refer to a high quality dictionary
for currently accepted definitions of both. I'm using the Random House
College Dictionary and was rather surprised by the definitions of both
words.
Because the definition of ART is quite lengthy in that dictionary, I won't
attempt to type it all here, but rather I would suggest that you all take
look a good dictionary to satisfy your curiosity. In the meantime, I must
return to my "studio" and create some "art." ;-))
Best regards,
Frank - who can be found at : fh9...@ecn.ab.ca
and when Internet surfing at : ICQ 13572173
Edmonton - The City of Champions! - Alberta., Canada.
Laverne Lovatt
among our members all different types of painters, potters , woodcarvewrs,
sculptors, turners,glassblowers,and various other ne'er do wells. Some "
artists" create folk art on olsaws an frying pans. Art? not. Raku
Craftsman create pots of clay and glaze. Craft? not Art? you bet!! I would
like to add however that art like beauty is in the eyes of the beholder!
(Don't you hate cliches) We must be tolerant of others opinions, after all
some people like eating squash.
Spydaman wrote in message <383DCB...@shaka.com>...
>I was considering joining a local artists guild since they lacked any
>woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
>even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure for
>my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
>(watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
>art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better off
>displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
>names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of the
>artist?
Duke of URLs©
>>as *craftsman*. I guess in the real world though the connotations of
>>being a craftsman are better than if you try and go through as an
>>artist.
Olivier de Goër wrote:
> Excuse-me, but I've a small translation problem : what's the difference
> between artisans and craftsman ?
According to Webster, none.
Keith Bohn
Kevin & Theresa Miller
> > Excuse-me, but I've a small translation problem : what's the difference
> > between artisans and craftsman ?
>
> According to Webster, none.
But how can you trust him - he wasn't a woodturner! Ya gotta think
these things through Keith! ;-)
Jon Schilling
says...
This thread says it all. And it brings a good close for me today.
I have been thoroughly entertained this afternoon with this thread. I needed
it.
I've spent three days with my turning buddy harvesting just the limbs of
a Big Leaf Maple tree. I'm pooped and relieved that maybe there is hope that I
can claim status of all three....
The author of the previous post done real good!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jon Schilling (Ridgefield, Wa., 10 Miles North of Portland, Oregon
neill
>
> I must be neither artist nor craftsman because I work in the garage.
I wonder what that makes me. I work in the basement.
Neill
Spydaman
>
> I must be neither artist nor craftsman because I work in the garage.
That makes you a mechanic... :-)
Spydaman
>
> Grusserry wrote:
> >
> > I must be neither artist nor craftsman because I work in the garage.
>
>
> Neill
Underground woodturner...
Spydaman
>
> Oh by the way. One other thing that always bothers me about the
> word artisan is that Powermatic adopted it to tag a line of tools that
> weren't in the same league as their flagship line. Of course outside
> of woodworkers, who'd know?
>
> Keith Bohn
Interesting... Craft Supply's line of "economy" woodturning tools is
also called their "artisan" line.
Spy
Duke of URLs©
>But how can you trust him - he wasn't a woodturner! Ya gotta think
>these things through Keith! ;-)
But how do we know for sure? *Never* assume anything. :-)
FEDORAK RALPH
much useful information from it. in this time i have not seen as much
discussion on an issue as on this one. i have turned wood seriously for
about 4 years now. i belong to two organizations locally. for one of
these organizations my work had to be juried for acceptance. one of the
jurors was a wood turner. he addressed my work as artistic and appeared
disturbed that i took this a compliment as he considered himself a
craftsman. i have had people admire my work for utilitarian purposes
and other people admire it for its uniqueness "and never shall the
twain meet".
it doesn't mater if it is art or craft as long as you are satisfied with
it. its a bonus if other people appreciate what you do.
Duke of URLs©
>> Oh by the way. One other thing that always bothers me about the
>> word artisan is that Powermatic adopted it to tag a line of tools that
>> weren't in the same league as their flagship line. Of course outside
>> of woodworkers, who'd know?
Spydaman wrote:
>Interesting... Craft Supply's line of "economy" woodturning tools is
>also called their "artisan" line.
Well there ya go! We *artisans* are a bunch cheap bastards. :-)
By the way, your decision to hang low is probably a good one. Who
knows, maybe in a year or two after you've gained some notoriety
they'll be knocking on your door to join them? Put 'em through hell
if they do. :-) (note smiley)
Keith Bohn
James Gaydos
ecl01
from his or her imagination, was an artist - no matter what medium.
Someone who built, and constructed it well, from other's imagination was a
craftsman - and if he/she were lousy, they were a 'hatchet man'.
e
Olivier de Goër <ode...@club-internet.fr> wrote in message
news:81msgd$hr3$7...@front7m.grolier.fr...
>
> Duke of URLs© a écrit dans le message
<383e728c$0$42...@news.execpc.com>...
>
> >Personally I like *artisan* which unfortunately is defined by Webster
> >as *craftsman*. I guess in the real world though the connotations of
> >being a craftsman are better than if you try and go through as an
> >artist.
>
>
> Excuse-me, but I've a small translation problem : what's the difference
> between artisans and craftsman ?
>
ecl01
again.
e
Spydaman <spyd...@shaka.com> wrote in message
news:383F63...@shaka.com...
Mark Doman
of windows in the lathe area. It now has a great view of a stream and a
wooded area, it really is too pretty to call a "shop", so I had to call it
a, "studio". My wife initially wanted to laugh at this description, but had
to agree. So, if indoubt, add some windows!
If you don't have a great view to help you out, there are other ways.
To convert a "shop" into a "studio": constantly play either jazz or
classical music; hang up some old prints/paintings from your attic; dress
entirely in black; and speak with an accent (the best accents would be
completely unidentifiable). But If you would like to be sure you have a
"studio" and not a "shop," have an "opening".
This is not as hard as it sounds. Get a cheeseball, some crackers and
some beverages of your choice, then invite some of your friends over. Make
sure to place a couple of "sold" signs, (or red dots), on past work for
effect. Don't forget, the effect of an opening will be heightened by the
music, expresso machine,"attic art", black clothes and, above all, accents
(for maximum effect, have your spouse speak with an totally different
accent).
You will then be the proud owner of a "Studio." You may even have a good
time.
Good turning to all, Craftsman and Artists, and good night.
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George Nazarko
next to JFK?
Mark Doman wrote in message <38414...@news5.newsfeeds.com>...
Grusserry
Kevin Neelley
A two car garage is a "studio"
Kevin
Grusserry wrote in message <19991125214537...@ng-cd1.aol.com>...
>Others will see us as we see ourselves. If we work in a "studio", we are an
>artist. If we work in a "shop", then we are a crafter.
Darrell Feltmate
If you heard me play jazz, you would not call it art. Classical, fair.
Really, when I was younger and paid to play, I was more of a bluegrass banjo
player and sometimes guitar. People do not seem to call that art either but
it sure takes skill and feeling. I guess the comment was really to the
effect that people seem to have strong categories for what they consider art
and are not willing to think about art is for fear they may be wrong in
their own assessment. Just a thought.
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Dee Smith
multiple photographs, making prints of a painting, etc. The reason for
doing these things is to reproduce a unique piece. It is possible that
one might use the reproductions for creating a new unique piece which
could then be considered art.
I believe that the definition which includes creativity in it is the
best one of art. Reproduction of art by itself is not art but simply
craft if done well.
Dee
"Joseph S. Wisniewski" wrote in part:
>
> Of course, one of the things that most works against the image of
> woodturners as artists is that we have the "duplicating lathe". This
> does something relatively unique in the arts, it duplicates the act of
> creation. It's not in the same league as printing multiple photographs
> from one negative, or making prints from a painting, because in other
> arts, it's the creation of the "master" that is the real work.
>
> Joe
--
Dee Smith
PIT, Packaging and Integration Testing
IBM Austin, Tx
manywoods
Very well said. I will have to try that. Although I have had "artists"
work for me, and I have called my work area a studio, because of "them", so
they would understand what I was doing.
CN
Mark Doman wrote in message <38414...@news5.newsfeeds.com>...
> When I converted an old shed into a "turning location", I added a bunch
>of windows in the lathe area. It now has a great view of a stream and a
>wooded area, it really is too pretty to call a "shop", so I had to call it
>a, "studio". My wife initially wanted to laugh at this description, but
had
>to agree. So, if indoubt, add some windows!
> If you don't have a great view to help you out, there are other ways.
>To convert a "shop" into a "studio": constantly play either jazz or
>classical music; hang up some old prints/paintings from your attic; dress
>entirely in black; and speak with an accent (the best accents would be
>completely unidentifiable). But If you would like to be sure you have a
>"studio" and not a "shop," have an "opening".
Buddy Matlosz
Kevin Neelley <knee...@ionet.net> wrote in message
news:81s70b$lvc$1...@ionews.ionet.net...
> A one car garage is a "shop".
> A two car garage is a "studio"
>
> Kevin
...and of course, a three car garage is a gloat.
Buddy
Nova
Steve Russell wrote:
> > > A one car garage is a "shop".
> > > A two car garage is a "studio"
>
> > ...and of course, a three car garage is a gloat.
>
> Ok, then what is a three car garage with a 10' full width extention on
> the back?
>
An airplane hanger.
Jack Novak
Steve Hosie
A woodturner turns and the obtject can be "ART".
Which is an artist ? Which is a craftsman ?
Juergen
Juergen
In article <s45v1r...@corp.supernews.com>,
"Buddy Matlosz" <amat...@myhost.com> wrote:
>
> Kevin Neelley <knee...@ionet.net> wrote in message
> news:81s70b$lvc$1...@ionews.ionet.net...
> > A one car garage is a "shop".
> > A two car garage is a "studio"
> >
> > Kevin
>
> ...and of course, a three car garage is a gloat.
>
> Buddy
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve Russell
> > A two car garage is a "studio"
> ...and of course, a three car garage is a gloat.
Ok, then what is a three car garage with a 10' full width extention on
the back?
Letting the chips fly...
Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas
Richard Preston
>woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
>even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure for
>my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
>(watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
>(without ever seeing any of my work) that woodturning was not considered
>art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better off
>displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
>names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of the
>work. Was she being a snob? Do you consider yourself a craftsman or
>artist?
I wonder if you could have presented yourself in a worse fashion? You put
yourself at the mercy of one person who may or may not be in the mainstream of
thinking at that coop. And then you gave up.
I am the chairman of standards at our coop and I can say that some members just
don't get it. If you ran into one of those, then the result is predictable.
Conversely, there are those who think anything is great, even neo-cafeteria
items built from kits. There must be more to their application process that
what you went thru.
I would prepare some samples of your work. As you know, pictures are a good
suplement, but they do not reflect the tactile characteristics. I would call,
perhaps more than once, and ask if there is a Standards Committee which you
could contact to submit samples and perhaps pictures. We require 5 samples to
ensure that the person can do it more than once and can be consistent. If
there is no standards committee, how about a membership committee. Ask to meet
with them. Don't accept a turndown from one person. Ask for the name and phone
of the president if necessary.
Keep at it. You might be a star in their organization. I would ask what their
gross sales are and the average number of members. You need to see their bottom
line before you invest your time and energy. Ask about the lease and how long
it has to go. This addresses stability and the probability that the coop will
survive.
BTW, wood has a reputation as being a slow seller.
As far as your question of Art and Craft, I think you should be able to
recognize this for yourself. You should be aware of Michael Hosaluk, Michelle
Holzapfel, Ron Fleming, Giles Gilson among others. Their results are, for the
most part, art.
Other turners have exquisite control and produce fine, thin bowls out of
wonderful wood, but the objects lack art - and you know it intuitively. Those
bowls demonstrate technique. They may not demonstrate any characteristics of
art or they may exhibit an attempt at art. Of course, these fine, thin
properties can also be found in art, so please don't take my comment the wrong
way.
Best wishes and please try again for your membership. It helps us all to get
turning into the mainstream. If you believe your work is artistic, then
describe yourself as an Artist in Wood.
.
Regards,
Richard
WoodTurners Anonymous of Richmond, Va, an AAW Chapter
Spydaman
>
> What is art? Perhaps we should ask Jesse Helms or Rudolph Gullianni, they
> seem to be 100% sure what is and isn't art. Someof these art snobs seem to
> be in their league. Sad isn't it?
>
> John Pickett
> Ashling Ranch
> Llano, Texas
Maybe turnings would be considered more an art form if it was turned
from dried elephant dung, and it offended at least half the people who
saw it. :-)
Spy in Hawaii
=keith=
wrote:
>I was considering joining a local artists guild since they lacked any
>woodturnings at their weekend art fairs (alot of paintings, ceramics,
>even woodcarvings), and it would be a good way to get more exposure for
>my work. I visited their small gallery during the week and the artist
>(watercolor paintings) who was manning the shop that day said to me
>(without ever seeing any of my work) that woodturning was not considered
>art, but that it was a craft. She stated I would probley be better off
>displaying my works at a crafts fair, even after giving her a list of
>names of galleries where my work has been on display, and prices of the
>work. Was she being a snob? Do you consider yourself a craftsman or
>artist?
Hi Spy,
I have not read any of the other messages in this thread so pardon me
if I repeat something someone else says but your question is one that
has been on mind lately.
My answer to myself and you is that art is the expression of a
craftsman. A master of his craft is able to produce art because he or
she has mastered their craft or the particular part of their craft
that interests them. A lot of galleries in my part of the world will
not sell photographs because they are not considered art...yet coffee
table books with the images of Ansel Adams are very popular. Adams was
a master of print manipulation and therefore was able to turn out
"art" that is accepted around the world.
I have always been told that if it does not evoke an emotional
response, then it is not art. I beleive anyone that turns, even rank
amateurs like myself has had at least one piece picked up by someone
and ooohed and aaahed over...well to that piece has evoked and
emotional response and must therefore be art.
I have a piece of cocobolo at home that is 3 feet long, 1 inch thick
and 14 inches wide that has a wide line of sapwood, I absolutely
refuse to cut into this board because it is so beautiful, looks like a
desert and mountain scene. It is going to hang on our wall as soon as
I find something to frame it with that will do it justice.
Take care
--
Keith Bruner
Just another memory free humanoid.
Ashling Ranch
Ashling Ranch
JP
George Nazarko
That's what they're concerned about. Since our government must, by Supreme
Court decision, separate itself from any belief system other than the gospel
according to the founders (note: that document merely has an establishment
prohibition), it is a legitimate question. The "artworks" at issue were
designed to offend certain believers. To support them with public funds
would be tantamount to support for some other belief.
I guess the two individuals involved felt that works designed to offend
deserved the same retraction as words designed to offend. Remember the
"Hymie town" reference, or the infamous "N" word? It's always followed by
retraction, apology and condemnation. Excrement as art deserves the same
treatment. What's sad is that anyone would object to their course of
action.
Ashling Ranch wrote in message <827bdj$cdi$0...@208.243.248.83>...
Frank Harman
> Maybe turnings would be considered more an art form if it was turned
> from dried elephant dung, and it offended at least half the people who
> saw it. :-)
> Spy in Hawaii
Spy...that could be a problem for me. There are no elephants here in western
Canada. But I could get a truck load of Moose dung with no problem.
Considering that a moose was running about here in town in the river valley
just a few days ago is a general indicator that they just might be willing
to participate ;-)) The question then is: Would dried and turned turned
moose dung be a "qualified art form?" ;-))
Best regards,
Frank - who can be found at : fh9...@ecn.ab.ca
and when Internet surfing at : ICQ: 13572173
Edmonton - The City of Champions! - Alberta, Canada.
James Gaydos
very high price tag on it,and called it "ARTdund de Moose",and found one
celebrity to buy one piece,you would be a hit ,and there for it would be
art. Moose dung would soon be on the endangered feces list :)
Kevin & Theresa Miller
>
> Ashling Ranch wrote:
> >
> > What is art? Perhaps we should ask Jesse Helms or Rudolph Gullianni, they
> > seem to be 100% sure what is and isn't art. Someof these art snobs seem to
> > be in their league. Sad isn't it?
> >
> > Ashling Ranch
> > Llano, Texas
>
> from dried elephant dung, and it offended at least half the people who
> saw it. :-)
>
> Spy in Hawaii
Hey, now you're on to something Spyder. And to thing that lady didn't
believe you were an artist at heart. It boggles the mind...
...Kevin
;-)
--
Kevin & Theresa Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Allan Johnston
How would you mount the moose dung? You must have an awful wee chuck.
We've had a moose annoying us for a while now. Can't catch him! Got
traps in every room in the hoose----still no luck. Crafty Scottish
moose :-)
--
Regards,
Allan Johnston
Lwardret94
real woodturning articles which teach me how to dry a log for use or which kind
of steel makes the best wood turning tool. I have seen Moose Dung earings
which I found quite attractive while visiting Canada. Wouldn't wear them
myself or give them as a gift to my wife. I do support the hell out of someone
else the right to wear them in public tho.
James Gaydos
a good Idea.
To mount on the lathe,attatch it to a glue block with a good thick CA
glue,ware a face shield and have at it. For a finnish,the choice is
your's,I personaly prefer a high gloss.it brings out the grain,and
beauty of the dung. :)
Mike & Donna McCombs
Steve Hicks wrote ...
> Which is the best way to turn moose dung - wet or dry?
> If dry, is air dried or kiln dried best.. What finishes would
anyone
> recommend.
Frozen.
Mike McCombs