First off i live up in snow country and salt country, Ottawa Ontario
Canada
we put enough salt on our roads up here to make the ocean seem fit to
drink. And well Ottawa has one of the most aggressive snow removal and
salt plans going in in the first place.
So heres my question. has anyone or is there any reason not to
deliberately set up a galvanic cell by bolting an amount of magnesium
or zinc to the car body in a place where the elements can hit it? IF
i'm not "nucking futs" then the anode (Magnesium or zinc) getting wet
touching bare steel will set up a galvanic cell with the Mg being
sacrificed and "rusting/oxidizing" away to protect the steel of the
cars bodywork.
Am i nuts? is this doable? does anyone do this? Just curious?
If it matters drive a unibody car with an aluminum block (diesel jetta)
I may be wrong, but I'm of the opinion that unless you can achieve an
electrical circuit between the sacrificial anode and body and frame work of
the car and the water it holds, it won't work. The mere presence of a
sacrificial element isn't enough. The navy uses a similar technique
whereby a ship is one pole, the ocean the other. Same with rebar and
structural steel in highway overpasses.
Harold
If I'm not mistaken, I remember seeing such devices advertized years
ago in some mags. I think even one of my acquaintences even had one,
No idea if it worked.
...lew...
> So heres my question. has anyone or is there any reason not to
> deliberately set up a galvanic cell by bolting an amount of magnesium
> or zinc to the car body in a place where the elements can hit it?
It works. If you make a boat out of your car. :-)
Nick
--
***********************************
*** Available now in NZ and AUS ***
***********************************
<http://www.yadro.de>
Lots of people swear by them and there are lots on the market.
http://www.counteractrust.com/ f'rinstance.
--
Like they say, 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
------------------------------------------------------
Hello Brent:
You need more than 'the elements' striking the sacrificial anode. A
sacrificial anode is effective on a ship or an underground tank where
the *metal* *being* *protected* is in direct contact with the
*solution* (ocean water or underground moisture) in which the anode is
immersed.
Yeah, it kinda means that you have to drive the car under water for
the anode to be effective...<G>
An alternative is to coat the metal entirely with the anode material,
as in galvanized steel.
Regards -- Terry
IIRC glvanizing steel is done for just that reason. (At least the name
makes it sound that way.)
I read somewhere that even if the galvanizing is scratched through in
one location the presence of the zinc adjacent to the scratch means that
when the area gets wet the adjacent zinc takes the galvanic corrosion
hit and "saves" the exposed steel.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.
i
In order to work, the sacrifical anode must be in contact with the
same liquid that is doing the corroding. That's easy in water
heaters and boats, not so easy in an auto which can have isolated
pockets of trapped corrosive liquid.
About the best defense is frequent washing (including "bottom blast")
during salt season. My Ford Contours are 12 years old, have operated
all of that time in the salty Minneapolis metro area, are completely
rust free thus far. They get a trip thru the carwash after every
snow, once the roads are again reasonably clear and dry.
VWs have been double galvanized since at least the late 80's, IIRC, as
are most current cars. The problems with your concept is that you
don't have total immersion in salt water, just splashes here and
there. So you need a whole lot of zinc blocks, not just one or two,
which is effectively what you have with the galvanizing. It won't
prevent corrosion entirely, but will slow it down. Best thing is a
hot freshwater rinse after exposure.
Stan
That's not a sacrificial anode - it's an electronic device to counter
the electrolitic action. It's useless under most conditions.
Daughter's Neon has one and it's rusting like all Neons.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bud
Don Foreman wrote:
>In order to work, the sacrifical anode must be in contact with the
>same liquid that is doing the corroding. That's easy in water
>heaters and boats, not so easy in an auto which can have isolated
>pockets of trapped corrosive liquid.
>
>
Exactly.
>About the best defense is frequent washing (including "bottom blast")
>during salt season. My Ford Contours are 12 years old, have operated
>all of that time in the salty Minneapolis metro area, are completely
>rust free thus far. They get a trip thru the carwash after every
>snow, once the roads are again reasonably clear and dry.
>
>
My 1989 Toyota gets washed at least once a year, and there's plenty of salt
used around St. Louis. I had "the Protector" put on it for a couple hundred
$ when I bought it, although the dealer made a big fuss that I was throwing
MY money away, as that kind of stuff is no longer needed. There are a few
rusty undercarriage pieces, but the body is totally free of any rust.
The car
is roughly 18 years old, driven 250+ days a year, and has 163,000 miles on
it. I'm sure hot-dip galvanizing is helpful, and the new paints adhere
better
than the traditional finishes from the 1950's, but it seems to me that
the internal
coating is still the best thing you can do for long life.
Jon
> My 1989 Toyota gets washed at least once a year, and there's plenty
> of salt used around St. Louis. I had "the Protector" put on it for
> a couple hundred $ when I bought it, although the dealer made a big
> fuss that I was throwing MY money away, as that kind of stuff is no
> longer needed. There are a few rusty undercarriage pieces, but the
> body is totally free of any rust. The car is roughly 18 years old,
> driven 250+ days a year, and has 163,000 miles on it. I'm sure
> hot-dip galvanizing is helpful, and the new paints adhere better
> than the traditional finishes from the 1950's, but it seems to me
> that the internal coating is still the best thing you can do for
> long life.
Jon, could you elaborate on that Protector, what is it, how it is
applied, how it works etc.
i
>I have had a thought occur to me and i could use confirmation that I
>am or i'm not nuts.
>
>First off i live up in snow country and salt country, Ottawa Ontario
>Canada
>
>we put enough salt on our roads up here to make the ocean seem fit to
>drink. And well Ottawa has one of the most aggressive snow removal and
>salt plans going in in the first place.
[snip]
During the warmer (non snowy) months, whenever I change oil in my car,
I re-paint any part of the undercarriage that shows a rock chip.
One of the issues I see with many car chassis is that the various
holes trap dirt and moisture on the other side of the metal where you
can't easily inspect it.
Wes
This was in response to a query about Crappy Tire selling Crap. if the
link doesn't work for you long story short-
Rust & galvanic corrosion are two seperate things, what works for one
won't necessarily work for the other. :(
H.
> Brent wrote:
>
>> So heres my question. has anyone or is there any reason not to
>> deliberately set up a galvanic cell by bolting an amount of magnesium
>> or zinc to the car body in a place where the elements can hit it?
>
> It works. If you make a boat out of your car. :-)
>
>
> Nick
How about an Amphicar???
>Move to California
Nice idea - Won't always work if you are close to the beach.
And there are mountainous areas in the state where they use a bit of
salt - though AFAIK they try to use sand as much as possible.
--<< Bruce >>--
Its a good idea for other reasons. like the availability of machine
tools. compared to this corner of the world I'd have likely already
picked up Gunners Clausing 8540 for example at least.
Thats a great reply explaining it. So essentially deal with paint
chips and rust spots fast and its not an issue but tossing in zinc or
mg just wont cut it as an effective means of preventing corrosion
thanks.
Thanks to all for the posts i'm glad it generated some discussion and
I came away understanding better
>>>Move to California
>>
>> Nice idea - Won't always work if you are close to the beach.
>>And there are mountainous areas in the state where they use a bit of
>>salt - though AFAIK they try to use sand as much as possible.
>
>Its a good idea for other reasons. like the availability of machine
>tools. compared to this corner of the world I'd have likely already
>picked up Gunners Clausing 8540 for example at least.
But there's a whole raft of BIG downsides - Blue state, between
Frisco and Hollywood. Big taxes, big regulation, Democratic
legislature and a RINO Governor (Oops!) who was supposed to clean it
up but instead is playing Three Card Monte with the state budget.
(The state borrowed a ton of money with bonds earmarked to pay down
public debt, and then they spent the dough and never paid it down -
and new revenues are getting spent as fast as they come in. And when
confronted with the facts, they deny it. If you or I tried that,
they'd cart us off to prison.)
/Very/ high cost of living unless you want to commute to Taft or the
other backwaters way out of town. Traffic is rapidly turning into a
nightmare, even in the suburban areas and 'Rush Hour' is all day on
some routes. But the NIMBY's don't want to put in a new road or widen
an old one if it goes through /their/ neighborhood.
And in all industries there are a ton of crooks and charlatans you
have to watch out for - who wouldn't survive a week in a small town,
since word would get around and there would be no new or repeat
business...
P.T. Barnum didn't figure on scale - With a big enough population
base to fleece, you /can/ find enough fresh suckers that don't check
references to screw over once to have a going operation.
(Plumbers getting $3K for an "emergency" water heater on the weekend
- and they make you hand-write up a form [printed ones are invalid] to
get around the contract laws on 3-Day Right of Recession. So when you
call around on Monday and figure out you just got screwed with the
Holland Tunnel you can't do a thing about it...)
If I wasn't born and raised here, I'd seriously think twice about
coming. It's not all Goodness and Light, some of that is false fronts
and Hollywood set dressing.
--<< Bruce >>--
Its still available <G>
Road Trip!!
Free Cats with every machine tool purchase!
Gunner
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide"
- James Burnham
> Free Cats with every machine tool purchase!
lol
--
John L. Weatherly
Nashville, TN
please remove XXXs to reply via email
However..the small towns can be nice to live in. Particuarly since most
of the state Is Red, except for the urban areas.
Not worth the bother. Without submersion in a conductive media they
don't work.
Best solution to salt is to WASH the vehicle completely. This means you
pull the door panels and any trim so you can wash out ALL the hidden
spots. Then use hot air to dry all those areas real well. Now spray the
panels with some good undercoating. MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE DRAINS OPEN
in the panels. if not normal condensation will not get out and it will
cause problems.
For a good undercoating you want something that will stay in place BUT
will stay semi soft so that it can flex as the panels expand and
contract. I use three types (depends on the panel and finish wanted) One
is a Body Shutz 08864, another is Rust Fighter-I 08891
The last is from an outfit in Canada and goes on like water, BUT it goes
into any body seams or openings and as the carrier dries it leaves a
thick waxy coating behind.
The first two are great for large panels. The first also makes a good
sound deadener.
--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
>On 28 Feb 2007 07:21:19 -0800, "Brent" <b_ph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 28, 2:14 am, Bruce L. Bergman
>><blnospamberg...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 27 Feb 2007 10:36:18 -0800, starbol...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>>
>>> >Move to California
>>>
>>> Nice idea - Won't always work if you are close to the beach.
>>>
>>> And there are mountainous areas in the state where they use a bit of
>>> salt - though AFAIK they try to use sand as much as possible.
>>>
>>> --<< Bruce >>--
>>
>>Its a good idea for other reasons. like the availability of machine
>>tools. compared to this corner of the world I'd have likely already
>>picked up Gunners Clausing 8540 for example at least.
>
>
>Its still available <G>
>
>Road Trip!!
>
>Free Cats with every machine tool purchase!
I wanna, I need a... No, I can't. I must not.
If I show up, it's too tempting. They don't make trucks big enough
(at least not that I can drive, I only have a simple Class C...) and I
have no place to put it. I need to go through my own Piles Of Stuff
and seriously winnow it all down first - throw out the hopeless trash,
sort and box the breakers and panel parts...
Might be nice to be able to park a car in the garage (even
temporarily) for the first time in 36 years.
And if I bring home a kitten the Parrot is going to be seriously
pissed when he finds out he's no longer an Only Pet.
--<< Bruce >>--
Amazon?
Harold
Mi Casa....su casa
> Might be nice to be able to park a car in the garage (even
>temporarily) for the first time in 36 years.
>
> And if I bring home a kitten the Parrot is going to be seriously
>pissed when he finds out he's no longer an Only Pet.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
my #1 lady friend, who visits the homestead regularly, usually brings
her Amazon Green. The cats are curious, but leave it alone.
Come on up, its not that far. Im home all weekends
>snip-----
>> And if I bring home a kitten the Parrot is going to be seriously
>> pissed when he finds out he's no longer an Only Pet.
>
>Amazon?
Double-Yellow, wild caught we think, about 40, and has a serious
attitude problem with men. We adopted him 20 years ago when one of
our neighbors moved to an apartment that was totally No Pets.
--<< Bruce >>--
Harold