Cheapie Mist Coolant Unit- think I can get it to work?

[robobass]

I bought this thing for around $10 shipped direct from China.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MYIAAOSwA3dYZJzw/s-l1600.jpg
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nebel-Kuehlmittel-Spruehsystem-Fuer-8mm-Luftrohr-CNC-Drehmaschine/282139386675?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I don't need mist for most stuff, so don't want to spend a lot on it, but it would be nice to have. I have a CNC router with a high speed spindle which holds endmills up to 6mm.
So far I have only tested it with water. It won't siphon up the water at all unless I run the air at very high pressure. If I lift the reservoir above the nozzle then the water flows too freely, even with the air off. I've used mist coolant in the past. The unit I had years ago worked well enough that I never had to fuss with it, and so never learned anything about how it worked. The only thing I can think of now is to keep the reservoir high, but somehow restrict the flow. Any tips, or should I just toss the thing?
Thanks,

[Bob La Londe]

"robobass" wrote in message
news:3cfaccda-4796-4615...@googlegroups.com...

*****************

Looks like a pretty typical air venturi vacuum sprayer. It will probably
work. I found that if I didn't set the source tank close to or above the
level of the sprayer it took a lot of air to prime and then you had to turn
it down to run or you would spray all your liquid out in minutes. The
problem with setting the tank up high is then it acts as a syphon and
continues to drip for hours after the air has been turned off. Those may be
ok for your application.

Since I was automating on my CNC machines I opted for flood coolant with a
centripetal pump. When the pump shuts off the liquid flows back to the tank
that can set on the floor or down inside the cabinet below the machine.

One thing to note is that a mist is not as good as micro droplet application
and puts more coolant into the air. Most of the guys I know who are running
"mist" are actually running a micro droplet system. Something like a Fog
Buster, except there are some DIY designs out there. I'd say ask Lloyd
Sponenburgh since he has a nice setup for that, but he refuses to wade
through the off topic posts in this group anymore. If you like you can
usually reach him on the CamBam forums. I think Lloyd and Bubba on that
forum both run DIY micro droplet applicators.

[Gunner Asch]

Misters like that tend to work pretty well. You either have a
defective one..or you are adjusting it wrong.


---
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[robobass]

I don't exclude that I am adjusting it wrong, but there ain't much there to adjust!

[Vinny]

replying to robobass, Vinny wrote:
I have two of 'em. They were about $6 each from Banggood. Both work well and
I use them for both coolant and just plain air. You need about 100 PSI if
you want them to pick up coolant reliably.

--
for full context, visit http://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/cheapie-mist-coolant-unit-think-i-can-get-it-to-work-641660-.htm

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:43:58 -0700 (PDT), robobass

I run (dual) misters on the mill and a single on the lathe..and run
them at house air pressure...input about 90 psi...output..about 35 psi

At most

[robobass]

Ah. I was hoping to do this with much less pressure. My neighbors would get irritable if I were running the compressor that much.

[robobass]

Micro droplet looks good. FogBusters are rather pricey though. I pm'd Lloyd. Any other sources for DIY instructions?
Thanks!

[robobass]

What about an artist's air brush? I use one to coat parts with anti-firescale juice and run it at about 10psi.

[robobass]

Sorry to keep posting, but here I have found what looks like an excellent drip system that would be cheap and easy to make:
http://bbssystem.com/viewtopic.php?p=13669#13669

[Gunner Asch]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2017 02:09:30 -0700 (PDT), robobass
<robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ah. I was hoping to do this with much less pressure. My neighbors would get irritable if I were running the compressor that much.

Best thing you can do is find a few extra compressor tanks and stack
them one on top of each other, plumb then together as a big storage
tank, pump it up and it will run Stuff for a while.

[Five To One]

On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 07:44:32 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 4 Oct 2017 02:09:30 -0700 (PDT), robobass
><robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Ah. I was hoping to do this with much less pressure. My neighbors would get irritable if I were running the compressor that much.
>
>Best thing you can do is find a few extra compressor tanks and stack
>them one on top of each other, plumb then together as a big storage
>tank, pump it up and it will run Stuff for a while.

How much less will the compressor run to fill the big tanks as opposed
to a small one?

[Bob La Londe]

"robobass" wrote in message
news:f1c3ce69-2551-44b9...@googlegroups.com...

*******

That is very similar in concept to the way I have heard of droplet
applicators being designed.

[Gunner Asch]

(once) as opposed to many times?

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:43:58 -0700 (PDT), robobass

<robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:38:09 AM UTC+2, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:17:29 -0700 (PDT), robobass
>> <robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I bought this thing for around $10 shipped direct from China.
>> >http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MYIAAOSwA3dYZJzw/s-l1600.jpg
>> >http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nebel-Kuehlmittel-Spruehsystem-Fuer-8mm-Luftrohr-CNC-Drehmaschine/282139386675?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
>> >I don't need mist for most stuff, so don't want to spend a lot on it, but it would be nice to have. I have a CNC router with a high speed spindle which holds endmills up to 6mm.
>> >So far I have only tested it with water. It won't siphon up the water at all unless I run the air at very high pressure. If I lift the reservoir above the nozzle then the water flows too freely, even with the air off. I've used mist coolant in the past. The unit I had years ago worked well enough that I never had to fuss with it, and so never learned anything about how it worked. The only thing I can think of now is to keep the reservoir high, but somehow restrict the flow. Any tips, or should I just toss the thing?
>> >Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Misters like that tend to work pretty well. You either have a
>> defective one..or you are adjusting it wrong.
>>

>I don't exclude that I am adjusting it wrong, but there ain't much there to adjust!

What do the instructions say? What does the vendor say? They
usually have to check with a tech and get back to you. If it doesn't
work properly, they'll usually refund your money and -not- ask you to
spend the normal $18 it costs to return something to China.

If it's a real small-diameter coolant tube and real small venturi
orifice, it may take a lot of pressure, but not airflow, to get it to
work. For mist, it should be teensy. If it's large, you have an HPHV
paint sprayer on your hands. ;) (Oops, China.)

I picked up some misters for my garden from Chiwanese vendors. They're
very fine sprayers, not misters/foggers or the "atomizing nozzles" as
touted. Not too bad, but not quite what I expected. 20 for $3.49,
delivered, so I'm not too upset.

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2017 02:09:30 -0700 (PDT), robobass
<robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ah. I was hoping to do this with much less pressure. My neighbors would get irritable if I were running the compressor that much.

So isolate the noise from the compressor. A simple carpet-insulated
(interior) box/shack around it can cut much of the noise from reaching
irritable ears. (That includes mine.)

He Who Always Replies To Trolls was right, too, that adding capacity
to your air tank might help. It'll take longer to fill but twice as
long to come back on. Better yet, do both.

P.S: If this is the one you bought, you overpaid. <g>
http://tinyurl.com/yc7nwrtd

"Grades:
1. Clean the fluid should be used.
2. Do not use corrosive liquid.
3. In liquid without pressure output required to ensure that the air
pressure in the range 5-7KGF / cm2
(Atomization and gas, associated gas pressure).
4. Use the viscosity of the liquid in 68cSt or less."

5-7kgf/cm2 = 71=100psi. 68cst = something like 20w oil.
(Thank you google and ebay.)

[robobass]

Well I'm guessing that the DIY droplet sprayer will use a modest amount of air, and not cloud up my 400 ft^2 shop. So, I'm just gonna go with that. Thanks Bob!

[robobass]

> What do the instructions say? What does the vendor say? They
> usually have to check with a tech and get back to you. If it doesn't

> work properly, they'll usually refund your money ...

Larry, you seem to have a different customer service experience than me with Chinese Ebay sellers. There are never any instructions, and when you write them they write back with some nonsense which is completely irrelevant to your question. Sometimes they give a refund. Sometimes they even try to bargain when you get something totally defective. "Is it OK to refund half? After all, we did pay the shipping..." Anyway, for ten bucks it's not worth getting into it with them. In this case I would say that the unit does work, but just not as I had hoped. I would have to run my compressor continuously to supply the needed air, and I would fill my shop with fog in a short time.

[Vinny]

replying to robobass, Vinny wrote:

Sounds like you need a new pump for that compressor. Mine's nice and quiet
and an el-cheapo HF.

[Five To One]

On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 12:49:53 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 07:55:03 -0700, Five To One <F...@td.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 Oct 2017 07:44:32 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 4 Oct 2017 02:09:30 -0700 (PDT), robobass
>>><robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ah. I was hoping to do this with much less pressure. My neighbors would get irritable if I were running the compressor that much.
>>>
>>>Best thing you can do is find a few extra compressor tanks and stack
>>>them one on top of each other, plumb then together as a big storage
>>>tank, pump it up and it will run Stuff for a while.
>>
>>How much less will the compressor run to fill the big tanks as opposed
>>to a small one?
>
>(once) as opposed to many times?

No. The same amount of run time, IF the new tanks and fittings don't
add more leaks and lose more stored air. How is running the compressor
for the same time, and possibly longer, going to prevent pissing off
robobass's neighbor?

[Gunner Asch]

On Thu, 5 Oct 2017 03:13:51 -0700 (PDT), robobass
<robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would fill my shop with fog in a short time.

THAT is the reason Smog Hogs were developed and why most intelligent
people put their mills somewhat close to windows or exhaust devices.

Cause yes..they certainly WILL raise a hellish fog when you have
several of them running at the same time, once you go past a certain
point of liquid in the tool.

http://koolmist.com/coolant-systems
http://koolmist.com/formula-78-for-light-duty




Improved Coolant for Mist Systems

New formula improved after years of research, Formula "78" is a
chemical base mist coolant that dissolves in water to a clear
solution. It is the most universal mist coolant available.

It can be used on any metal or alloy, and displays high efficiency in
the cutting of exotic metals and alloys such as Monel, Inconel,
Titanium, etc., as well as all non-ferrous metals. Formula "78" meets
all OSHA standards. It is free of halogens and sulfides. It is safe
for operators whether in liquid or mist form. Our proprietary formula
completely prevents dermatitis and rancidity, and the formulation
contains no irritants.

All components for Formula "78" are dissipated into the atmosphere by
cutter heat except on; a chemically compounded lubricant that clings
to the tool to reduce friction, the prime cause of heat.

Formula 78 - For Light Duty Service

Part Number: 78-1 = 1 gallon (in plastic bottles)
Part Number: 78-4 = Case (four 1 gallon plastic bottles per case)
Part Number: 78-5 = 5 gallon pail
Part number: 78-55 = 55 gallon drum

Kool Mist Universal Flood or Mist Coolants

The Kool Mist unique formula of coolant is safe for people, working
materials and the tools used to shape them. The cost to use Kool Mist
is about $.03 per operating hour. Because Kool Mist comes in
concentrated form, it may be diluted with water in solutions up to
32:1. One gallon therefore makes 33 gallons of mix, or enough for 33
eight hour shifts at typical usage.

Both Kool Mist coolant formulas are biodegradable, greatly reducing
storage and disposal concerns. Spent coolant requires no special
treatment and will have no adverse environmental effect.

The improved Formula "77" is highly recommended for mistcooling any
metal or alloy where tougher machining condtions require greater
lubricity. It is particularly useful where tool pressure is
exceptionally great or where the material is very abrasive. Formula
"77" provides the extra lubrication needed to protect the cutting edge
of the tool. Formula "77" has been reformulated to provide the same
safety for use as Formula "78" where incorporating additional
lubricity ingredients for more demanding machining applications. In
addition, Formula "77" provides excellent service in most general
purpose flood cooling applications. One coolant-Formula "77" - will
fill most of your general mist and flood coolant needs. Formula "77"
eliminates double coolant inventory, cuts storage space requirements
and reduces your costs.

Formula 77 - For Tougher Service

77-1 1 gallon (in plastic bottles)
77-4 Case (four 1 gallon Plastic bottles per case)
77-5 5 gallon pail
77-55 55 gallon drum

Formula "77" - like Formula "78" - will not cause dermatitis,
rancidity, or buildup: and creates no rust or corrosion when diluted
with clean water. Workpieces and machine parts remain clean and
unstained."


There are a number of makers of misting compounds ..all with their own
claims


Gunner

[robobass]

Vinny wrote:
> Sounds like you need a new pump for that compressor. Mine's nice and quiet
> and an el-cheapo HF.

Oh. Right. I suppose your HF compressor is no louder than the cooling fans on your computer? My compressor is 2hp-50l-8bar. It's just as loud as you would expect from a unit this size.

[Bob La Londe]

"robobass" wrote in message
news:ab358170-dca0-4649...@googlegroups.com...

Well I'm guessing that the DIY droplet sprayer will use a modest amount of
air, and not cloud up my 400 ft^2 shop. So, I'm just gonna go with that.
Thanks Bob!

********

Any coolant system will result in some vapor and or fumes in the air. In my
little machine room where my 3 main high speed machines are it gets
incredibly humid when all three are running. All machines are liquid flood.
Its humid enough I am considering moving the two lathes back out of that
room to protect them from damage due to humidity.

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 5 Oct 2017 03:13:51 -0700 (PDT), robobass
<robanz...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> What do the instructions say? What does the vendor say? They
>> usually have to check with a tech and get back to you. If it doesn't
>> work properly, they'll usually refund your money ...
>
>Larry, you seem to have a different customer service experience than me with Chinese Ebay sellers. There are never any instructions,

<g> Yeah, instruction sheets do seem to be half a paragraph long, IF
you can weasel one out of them. But the better ones aren't even
written in Chinglish!

>and when you write them they write back with some nonsense which is completely irrelevant to your question.

BTDT, and then I started to pay attention to the vendor name.
FashionBoutik2311 likely won't have a tech handy for electronics.
Also, I usually ask questions to half a dozen vendors at a time, then
compare any replies. Write it up, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V six times, and send
'er on. If the average price is $10, look for the vendor selling it
for $27 and ask him. He'll find the answer for you.

>Sometimes they give a refund. Sometimes they even try to bargain when you get
>something totally defective. "Is it OK to refund half? After all, we did pay the shipping..."

Yeah, I've had those, too. I ordered a nice black backpack and got a
pink and green camo. First he offered $6 back, then $9, then $16, but
I finally asked him to either send the black one or refund the entire
amount. I'd already wasted 5 weeks. He caved. All that exchange
added up to about ten minutes of my time.

>Anyway, for ten bucks it's not worth getting into it with them. In this case I would say that
>the unit does work, but just not as I had hoped. I would have to run my compressor continuously
>to supply the needed air, and I would fill my shop with fog in a short time.

I consider a few minutes worth of email exchange a fair exchange for a
$10 (r $36) refund. YMMV. Obviously, the thing was built for a much
larger setup than you have. Hey, you have a machine shop and an
example of a too-large mister. Care to make one yourself, on a
smaller scale? I think all of these would fill the shop with fog
pretty quickly, though, and I'd want an air source and outlet fan for
when I was using it, I think. It's messy enough to make a fella want
to hover over it with a hand mister, I tell ya.

[Vinny]

replying to robobass, Vinny wrote:

Mine's a 3HP. Yes, it's louder than a cooling fan but you can still carry on
a conversation without raising your voice while in the same room, can still
talk on the fone and/or watch tv. Outside you can't even hear it.