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110V to 220V VFD
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Bob La Londe
Apr 28, 2016, 3:12:46 PM4/28/16
to
One of my small high speed machines has a 62mm 110V 24K spindle. It does an
amazing job, but I am starting to hear what might be some bearing noise.
Cut quality is still good, and the bearing noise is not continuous, but I
know I'll need to work on it soon. I figured the best thing to do was to
throw in a new spindle so I could work on this one at my liesure and not be
down if I screw it up, so I started shopping around. I found some old
listings (no longer available) for 62mm 110V spindles, but the only current
ones I found with 62mm body are all 220V.
My thought was to swap out the VFD to something like a Hitachi WJ200-007MF,
and just go ahead and use a 220V spindle. This way all I have to do is swap
the wiring and program the VFD. I don't need to physically modify the
machine. My goal is a rapid change out and minimal down time.
When I fix the old spindle (or let somebody else do it) I'll have a spare
spindle and swapping back to the old VFD should be a snap. Ultimately it
would be better of course to be able to just unplug the spindle and plug in
the spare, but for now this looks like a quickly implementable solution for
me. If I really like the WJ and 220 spindle I can of course just buy
another 220V spindle for a swap/spare and use the 110V VFD and spindle on
something else.
So, what am I missing?
amazing job, but I am starting to hear what might be some bearing noise.
Cut quality is still good, and the bearing noise is not continuous, but I
know I'll need to work on it soon. I figured the best thing to do was to
throw in a new spindle so I could work on this one at my liesure and not be
down if I screw it up, so I started shopping around. I found some old
listings (no longer available) for 62mm 110V spindles, but the only current
ones I found with 62mm body are all 220V.
My thought was to swap out the VFD to something like a Hitachi WJ200-007MF,
and just go ahead and use a 220V spindle. This way all I have to do is swap
the wiring and program the VFD. I don't need to physically modify the
machine. My goal is a rapid change out and minimal down time.
When I fix the old spindle (or let somebody else do it) I'll have a spare
spindle and swapping back to the old VFD should be a snap. Ultimately it
would be better of course to be able to just unplug the spindle and plug in
the spare, but for now this looks like a quickly implementable solution for
me. If I really like the WJ and 220 spindle I can of course just buy
another 220V spindle for a swap/spare and use the 110V VFD and spindle on
something else.
So, what am I missing?
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Apr 28, 2016, 3:16:55 PM4/28/16
to
"Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99> fired this volley in news:nftn4s$o3q$1
@dont-email.me:
> So, what am I missing?
Just the 'doing it" part.
It sounds like a "sound" plan to me.
Lloyd
@dont-email.me:
> So, what am I missing?
It sounds like a "sound" plan to me.
Lloyd
Jon Elson
Apr 28, 2016, 4:44:35 PM4/28/16
to
Bob La Londe wrote:
> One of my small high speed machines has a 62mm 110V 24K spindle. It does
> an amazing job, but I am starting to hear what might be some bearing
> noise. Cut quality is still good, and the bearing noise is not continuous,
> but I
> know I'll need to work on it soon. I figured the best thing to do was to
> throw in a new spindle so I could work on this one at my liesure and not
> be
> down if I screw it up, so I started shopping around. I found some old
> listings (no longer available) for 62mm 110V spindles, but the only
> current ones I found with 62mm body are all 220V.
>
> My thought was to swap out the VFD to something like a Hitachi
> WJ200-007MF,
> and just go ahead and use a 220V spindle. This way all I have to do is
> swap
> the wiring and program the VFD. I don't need to physically modify the
> machine. My goal is a rapid change out and minimal down time.
Can you use a 110:220 transformer, assuming the machine only has 120 V wired
> One of my small high speed machines has a 62mm 110V 24K spindle. It does
> an amazing job, but I am starting to hear what might be some bearing
> noise. Cut quality is still good, and the bearing noise is not continuous,
> but I
> know I'll need to work on it soon. I figured the best thing to do was to
> throw in a new spindle so I could work on this one at my liesure and not
> be
> down if I screw it up, so I started shopping around. I found some old
> listings (no longer available) for 62mm 110V spindles, but the only
> current ones I found with 62mm body are all 220V.
>
> My thought was to swap out the VFD to something like a Hitachi
> WJ200-007MF,
> and just go ahead and use a 220V spindle. This way all I have to do is
> swap
> the wiring and program the VFD. I don't need to physically modify the
> machine. My goal is a rapid change out and minimal down time.
in it?
Or, maybe I'm totally missing the problem. Your existing spindle has a 110
V 3-phase motor in it? Or, is it a 220 V motor with a VFD that runs from
110 V?
Jon
Bob Engelhardt
Apr 28, 2016, 4:49:36 PM4/28/16
to
On 4/28/2016 3:12 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> ... and swapping back to the old VFD ...
> So, what am I missing?
Some VFD's are programmable for motor voltage, so the VFD could just
have its parameter changed instead of swapping it.
Bob
> ... and swapping back to the old VFD ...
> So, what am I missing?
have its parameter changed instead of swapping it.
Bob
Bob La Londe
Apr 28, 2016, 6:11:33 PM4/28/16
to
"Jon Elson" <jme...@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:tq6dnVFM-cGt67_K...@giganews.com...
VFD.
>
> Or, maybe I'm totally missing the problem. Your existing spindle has a
> 110
> V 3-phase motor in it?
Yes.
> Or, is it a 220 V motor with a VFD that runs from
> 110 V?
No.
>
> Jon
news:tq6dnVFM-cGt67_K...@giganews.com...
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>> One of my small high speed machines has a 62mm 110V 24K spindle. It does
>> an amazing job, but I am starting to hear what might be some bearing
>> noise. Cut quality is still good, and the bearing noise is not
>> continuous,
>> but I
>> know I'll need to work on it soon. I figured the best thing to do was to
>> throw in a new spindle so I could work on this one at my liesure and not
>> be
>> down if I screw it up, so I started shopping around. I found some old
>> listings (no longer available) for 62mm 110V spindles, but the only
>> current ones I found with 62mm body are all 220V.
>>
>> My thought was to swap out the VFD to something like a Hitachi
>> WJ200-007MF,
>> and just go ahead and use a 220V spindle. This way all I have to do is
>> swap
>> the wiring and program the VFD. I don't need to physically modify the
>> machine. My goal is a rapid change out and minimal down time.
> Can you use a 110:220 transformer, assuming the machine only has 120 V
> wired
> in it?
I could, but I would still have to pick up a 220 VFD to replace the 110V
>
>> One of my small high speed machines has a 62mm 110V 24K spindle. It does
>> an amazing job, but I am starting to hear what might be some bearing
>> noise. Cut quality is still good, and the bearing noise is not
>> continuous,
>> but I
>> know I'll need to work on it soon. I figured the best thing to do was to
>> throw in a new spindle so I could work on this one at my liesure and not
>> be
>> down if I screw it up, so I started shopping around. I found some old
>> listings (no longer available) for 62mm 110V spindles, but the only
>> current ones I found with 62mm body are all 220V.
>>
>> My thought was to swap out the VFD to something like a Hitachi
>> WJ200-007MF,
>> and just go ahead and use a 220V spindle. This way all I have to do is
>> swap
>> the wiring and program the VFD. I don't need to physically modify the
>> machine. My goal is a rapid change out and minimal down time.
> Can you use a 110:220 transformer, assuming the machine only has 120 V
> wired
> in it?
VFD.
>
> Or, maybe I'm totally missing the problem. Your existing spindle has a
> 110
> V 3-phase motor in it?
> Or, is it a 220 V motor with a VFD that runs from
> 110 V?
>
> Jon
Bob La Londe
Apr 28, 2016, 6:13:08 PM4/28/16
to
"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nftsv...@news1.newsguy.com...
I forgot all about that. The machine has a 110V VFD. I suppose I need to
see if I have a manual for it or if I can find one.
news:nftsv...@news1.newsguy.com...
see if I have a manual for it or if I can find one.
amdx
Apr 28, 2016, 6:24:44 PM4/28/16
to
transformer will have very poor performance from 0 to 55 Hertz and
probably just about as bad from 70 to 120 Hertz.
Mikek
Bob La Londe
Apr 28, 2016, 6:29:44 PM4/28/16
to
"amdx" <noj...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:nfu2cr$5b9$1...@dont-email.me...
You would not use it on the output. You would use it on the input.
news:nfu2cr$5b9$1...@dont-email.me...
amdx
Apr 28, 2016, 6:36:14 PM4/28/16
to
BobH
Apr 28, 2016, 7:10:42 PM4/28/16
to
and puts out 220 3 phase. Surplus Center has them for about $150. I have
not measured the output voltage, but the currents look right and the
motor runs fine.
Good Luck,
BobH
Bob La Londe
Apr 28, 2016, 7:18:11 PM4/28/16
to
"BobH" <wanderingmetalhe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nfu57...@news1.nntpjunkie.com...
That little Teco would be perfect for a drill press speed control. Maybe
not for my ideal current application (need 400hz and external control
inputs), but I do want to convert my drill presses for speed control
someday. I will definitely try to remember it. The price is right.
news:nfu57...@news1.nntpjunkie.com...
not for my ideal current application (need 400hz and external control
inputs), but I do want to convert my drill presses for speed control
someday. I will definitely try to remember it. The price is right.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Apr 28, 2016, 7:21:37 PM4/28/16
to
amdx <noj...@knology.net> fired this volley in news:nfu2cr$5b9$1@dont-
email.me:
> Caveat, I have never used or seen a VFD, But a standard 110:220
> transformer will have very poor performance from 0 to 55 Hertz and
> probably just about as bad from 70 to 120 Hertz.
That's meaningless in this regime, Mike. VFDs don't work through a large
iron core transformer.
When they need to boost or buck voltage at all, they do it through small,
tightly-coupled, and HIGHLY responsive toroidal transformers -- one for
each leg. And they respond rapidly, with small excitation current, and
with almost NO DC impedance or current penalties.
Lloyd
email.me:
> Caveat, I have never used or seen a VFD, But a standard 110:220
> transformer will have very poor performance from 0 to 55 Hertz and
> probably just about as bad from 70 to 120 Hertz.
iron core transformer.
When they need to boost or buck voltage at all, they do it through small,
tightly-coupled, and HIGHLY responsive toroidal transformers -- one for
each leg. And they respond rapidly, with small excitation current, and
with almost NO DC impedance or current penalties.
Lloyd
Bob Engelhardt
Apr 28, 2016, 10:02:02 PM4/28/16
to
that is rated to generate 240v can be programmed to output 120. I don't
think that a 120 output VFD can be programmed to 240 output.
Bob
amdx
Apr 29, 2016, 7:36:11 AM4/29/16
to
On the other hand I don't see a single VFD schematic showing tightly
coupled toroidal transformers. There my be a few series inductors, but
nothing even showing transformers on the output. All I see are circuits
with a DC buss and transistors directly driving the output.
If you find something different, please post it.
>And they respond rapidly, with small excitation current, and
> with almost NO DC impedance or current penalties.
without referring to Google for corrections?
Mikek
bruce2...@gmail.com
Apr 29, 2016, 9:22:14 AM4/29/16
to
amdx wrote:
>
> Can you explain excitation current, DC impedance
> and current penalties, without referring to
> Google for corrections?
Firstly, wouldn't that be off-topic? This is a metalworking ng, not someplace like sci.electronics.repair.
>
> Can you explain excitation current, DC impedance
> and current penalties, without referring to
> Google for corrections?
Secondly, he could give you the explanation, but lie to you saying that he didn't just look it up. Or, he could go to the local trade school or electrical supply shop and ask around there.
Terry Coombs
Apr 29, 2016, 11:09:03 AM4/29/16
to
the hell are you (and you too are off topic) to tell them what they can
discuss here?
Metalworking content : Yesterday I drove a whole bunch of steel nails with
an aluminum pneumatic nailgun , using compressed air from a steel tank ,
said air compressed by an aluminum and steel compressor . The motive force
came from a motor with copper windings .
--
Snag
amdx
Apr 29, 2016, 12:31:34 PM4/29/16
to
On 4/29/2016 8:22 AM, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
> amdx wrote:
>>
>> Can you explain excitation current, DC impedance
>> and current penalties, without referring to
>> Google for corrections?
>
> Firstly, wouldn't that be off-topic? This is a metalworking ng, not someplace like sci.electronics.repair.
I had rice soup with duck, spiced with hot pepper and fish sauce for
> amdx wrote:
>>
>> Can you explain excitation current, DC impedance
>> and current penalties, without referring to
>> Google for corrections?
>
> Firstly, wouldn't that be off-topic? This is a metalworking ng, not someplace like sci.electronics.repair.
dinner last night.
You probably should not read that, it's off topic.
>
> Secondly, he could give you the explanation, but lie to you saying that he didn't just look it up.
Bob La Londe
Apr 29, 2016, 4:50:30 PM4/29/16
to
news:nfuf9...@news1.newsguy.com...
I am no expert myself only having programmed 3 VFDs so far in my life, but I
do recall voltage output being a programmable parameter on atleast one of
them. I figured I'd pull the manual and see what I found. I went ahead and
ordered the 110in/220out Hitachi along with a 220V spindle. I am using this
machine daily to make money so I can't afford extended down time. I plan to
have a spare spindle on hand at all times after I figure out the best
application.
do recall voltage output being a programmable parameter on atleast one of
them. I figured I'd pull the manual and see what I found. I went ahead and
ordered the 110in/220out Hitachi along with a 220V spindle. I am using this
machine daily to make money so I can't afford extended down time. I plan to
have a spare spindle on hand at all times after I figure out the best
application.
et...@whidbey.com
Apr 29, 2016, 6:04:05 PM4/29/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:50:09 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99>
Greetings Bob,
What brand spindle are you using? I'm intetested in adapting a high
speed spindle of some sort for engraving on one of my mills.
Thanks,
Eric
What brand spindle are you using? I'm intetested in adapting a high
speed spindle of some sort for engraving on one of my mills.
Thanks,
Eric
Bob La Londe
Apr 29, 2016, 6:23:48 PM4/29/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:blm7ibht15sli7004...@4ax.com...
I have two spindles from China ordered through Solar.Jean on Ebay. One is a
2.2kw 220, and the other is a .8kw 110. They both work fine, but are not
currently installed on a machine. The .8kw was used briefly as a companion
on the Hurco. It was also the main spindle on my Little Taig mill for a
while. (The Taig is on a shelf doing nothing now).) The 2.2 was just
powered up and run for a couple hours to test, and put back in the box
pending completion of the machine its going on.
The one on the machine I am using everyday is a .8kw of unknown source. It
came on the machine. It only has about 1000 hrs on it, but to be fair the
cooling pump failed at some point so I have no idea how long it ran without
coolant. Yesterday when I finished for the day it was making near constant
noise. I can now feel the damage in the bearings when I turn the spindle by
hand. Oddly enough it is still tight, and still spins up to full speed. It
even still produces decent surface finishes. I did not power it up today.
I've been busy all day doing secondary operations. Pinning mold hinges,
installing alignment pins, putting on handles. That sort of thing.
I also have a 1.5kw 220V spindle from UgraCNC that was used for a while as a
companion on the Hurco, and it worked fine, but it currently is waiting for
me to finish the new machine it will be going on. It may be going back on
the Hurco as a companion in the next few days as I have become very
dependent on high speed spindles for 3D material removal rates with small
cutters, and I have jobs stacking up.
news:blm7ibht15sli7004...@4ax.com...
2.2kw 220, and the other is a .8kw 110. They both work fine, but are not
currently installed on a machine. The .8kw was used briefly as a companion
on the Hurco. It was also the main spindle on my Little Taig mill for a
while. (The Taig is on a shelf doing nothing now).) The 2.2 was just
powered up and run for a couple hours to test, and put back in the box
pending completion of the machine its going on.
The one on the machine I am using everyday is a .8kw of unknown source. It
came on the machine. It only has about 1000 hrs on it, but to be fair the
cooling pump failed at some point so I have no idea how long it ran without
coolant. Yesterday when I finished for the day it was making near constant
noise. I can now feel the damage in the bearings when I turn the spindle by
hand. Oddly enough it is still tight, and still spins up to full speed. It
even still produces decent surface finishes. I did not power it up today.
I've been busy all day doing secondary operations. Pinning mold hinges,
installing alignment pins, putting on handles. That sort of thing.
I also have a 1.5kw 220V spindle from UgraCNC that was used for a while as a
companion on the Hurco, and it worked fine, but it currently is waiting for
me to finish the new machine it will be going on. It may be going back on
the Hurco as a companion in the next few days as I have become very
dependent on high speed spindles for 3D material removal rates with small
cutters, and I have jobs stacking up.
et...@whidbey.com
Apr 29, 2016, 7:02:19 PM4/29/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:23:27 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99>
So the Chinese spindles I see all over ebay work OK? They say they
only have .005mm runout, is that true in your experience? Also, can I
just use the coolant pump on the machine and pump water soluble
coolant through the spindle or do I need to install a water only
system? The mill I want to put the spindle on is a Fadal with the
typical centrifugal coolant pump so the pressure isn't real high but
there is lots of volume.
Thanks,
Eric
only have .005mm runout, is that true in your experience? Also, can I
just use the coolant pump on the machine and pump water soluble
coolant through the spindle or do I need to install a water only
system? The mill I want to put the spindle on is a Fadal with the
typical centrifugal coolant pump so the pressure isn't real high but
there is lots of volume.
Thanks,
Eric
bruce2...@gmail.com
Apr 29, 2016, 8:32:50 PM4/29/16
to
Terry Coombs wrote:
>
> Or bruce the ...
I tried some of that dry rub recently. Pizza Hut has new dry rub chicken wings. Oops my bad, that's not metalworking.
>
> Or bruce the ...
I tried some of that dry rub recently. Pizza Hut has new dry rub chicken wings. Oops my bad, that's not metalworking.
Terry Coombs
Apr 29, 2016, 8:52:58 PM4/29/16
to
application related to metalworking - this was directly related to the
conversation about how to power a 3 phase high speed spindle .
And just who are you ? I know who all the regulars are , and you ain't one
. And what exactly have you contributed here ? I've never seen anything you
posted that actually pertains to metalworking ...
--
Snag
bruce2...@gmail.com
Apr 29, 2016, 9:17:18 PM4/29/16
to
Terry Coombs wrote:
>
> And who are you?
What's it to you anyway, what I understand or what I don't? All I told Mikek was that I thought his question didn't belong here.
>
> And who are you?
What's it to you anyway, what I understand or what I don't? All I told Mikek was that I thought his question didn't belong here.
Terry Coombs
Apr 29, 2016, 9:37:42 PM4/29/16
to
--
Snag
et...@whidbey.com
Apr 29, 2016, 10:28:30 PM4/29/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:52:57 -0500, "Terry Coombs" <snag...@msn.com>
wrote:
Greetings Terry,
That guy or girl just wants to get a rise out of someone. Probably
just a teenager or some old fart in his dotage.
Eric
wrote:
That guy or girl just wants to get a rise out of someone. Probably
just a teenager or some old fart in his dotage.
Eric
Larry Jaques
Apr 30, 2016, 1:48:45 AM4/30/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:09:01 -0500, "Terry Coombs" <snag...@msn.com>
wrote:
>bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
>> amdx wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you explain excitation current, DC impedance
>>> and current penalties, without referring to
>>> Google for corrections?
>>
>> Firstly, wouldn't that be off-topic? This is a metalworking ng, not
>> someplace like sci.electronics.repair.
>>
>> Secondly, he could give you the explanation, but lie to you saying
>> that he didn't just look it up. Or, he could go to the local trade
>> school or electrical supply shop and ask around there.
>
>Or bruce the bitcher could just crawl back under his rock and shut up . Who
PDFTFT. Thanks.
--
EAT RIGHT, KEEP FIT, DIE ANYWAY.
--anon
Aw, Hell. Gimme CHOCOLATE!
--LJ
wrote:
>bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
>> amdx wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you explain excitation current, DC impedance
>>> and current penalties, without referring to
>>> Google for corrections?
>>
>> Firstly, wouldn't that be off-topic? This is a metalworking ng, not
>> someplace like sci.electronics.repair.
>>
>> Secondly, he could give you the explanation, but lie to you saying
>> that he didn't just look it up. Or, he could go to the local trade
>> school or electrical supply shop and ask around there.
>
>Or bruce the bitcher could just crawl back under his rock and shut up . Who
--
EAT RIGHT, KEEP FIT, DIE ANYWAY.
--anon
Aw, Hell. Gimme CHOCOLATE!
--LJ
whoyak...@gmail.com
Apr 30, 2016, 10:34:43 AM4/30/16
to
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:17:15 -0700 (PDT), bruce2...@gmail.com
wrote:
>Terry Coombs wrote:
>>
>> And who are you?
>
>What's it to you anyway, what I understand or what I don't? All I told Mikek was that I thought his question didn't belong here.
This group decided long ago that nothing was off limits. Not even
lengthy posts fantasizing about how one member's tribe was compiling a
list of thousands of names of people soon to be killed and hung from
lamp posts. Not even talk of appointing particular group members to
positions of power in the new government. Not even outright lies. In
fact, if anyone has any crackpot thing to say, it's more permissible
here than most other places.
wrote:
>Terry Coombs wrote:
>>
>> And who are you?
>
>What's it to you anyway, what I understand or what I don't? All I told Mikek was that I thought his question didn't belong here.
lengthy posts fantasizing about how one member's tribe was compiling a
list of thousands of names of people soon to be killed and hung from
lamp posts. Not even talk of appointing particular group members to
positions of power in the new government. Not even outright lies. In
fact, if anyone has any crackpot thing to say, it's more permissible
here than most other places.
Bob La Londe
Apr 30, 2016, 1:20:59 PM4/30/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:9vp7ib1nu5cetmdf8...@4ax.com...
Yes and no. Some sellers seem to have better products than others. Stay
away from the chepest sellers, those whose feedback listings are all
private, those with low number of feedback, those who do not have feedback
on the actual items you want to buy, and those with a disproportionate
number of buyer to seller feedback.
I did buy one that was crap. It was a combination spindle, pump, mount, and
tubing for a really good price. The spindle failed in veyr little time.
Cheap bearings. Being my first one I destroyed the motor trying to repair
it. It is what it is.
> They say they
> only have .005mm runout, is that true in your experience?
Most probably have that or better inside the spindle nose taper, but
perpendicularity may not be perfect. The further your tool sticks out the
worse it may be. Buying quality collets and closers from a decent source
does help some. I try to only use stub length tools. I may even have some
of the larger sizes I use custom made with short flutes and extra short
shanks.
> Also, can I
> just use the coolant pump on the machine and pump water soluble
> coolant through the spindle or do I need to install a water only
> system?
I would definitely not run cutting coolant through it. Many people run
straight distilled water (** which will become slightly acidic over time
with exposure to air). I run 50/50 automotive mix with its own pump and
reservoir.
The mill I want to put the spindle on is a Fadal with the
> typical centrifugal coolant pump so the pressure isn't real high but
> there is lots of volume.
That should be fine. Most people cool these with a small several hundred
GPM pond pump. Your pump will probably put more coolant through it than
most.
I would add that if you plan to do nothing but short job, light engraving
you may even be able to run an air cooled motor, but the air cooled motors
are open. You can't run cutting water soluble cutting coolant if you do.
Even on the liquided motors the connector on the top is not water proof.
After verifying proper operation I tape the connector and fill the backside
with resin.
No matter what spindle you use I reccomened light fast machining approaches
to keep load on the spindle at a minimum. I like to max in corners and
stepover at 25% of rated spindle HP or less. They may in theory run their
rated HP, but not for very long. For just shallow engraving a .8kw or even
a .4kw spindle is more than adequate. HP calculations will show nearly
zero.
news:9vp7ib1nu5cetmdf8...@4ax.com...
away from the chepest sellers, those whose feedback listings are all
private, those with low number of feedback, those who do not have feedback
on the actual items you want to buy, and those with a disproportionate
number of buyer to seller feedback.
I did buy one that was crap. It was a combination spindle, pump, mount, and
tubing for a really good price. The spindle failed in veyr little time.
Cheap bearings. Being my first one I destroyed the motor trying to repair
it. It is what it is.
> They say they
> only have .005mm runout, is that true in your experience?
perpendicularity may not be perfect. The further your tool sticks out the
worse it may be. Buying quality collets and closers from a decent source
does help some. I try to only use stub length tools. I may even have some
of the larger sizes I use custom made with short flutes and extra short
shanks.
> Also, can I
> just use the coolant pump on the machine and pump water soluble
> coolant through the spindle or do I need to install a water only
> system?
straight distilled water (** which will become slightly acidic over time
with exposure to air). I run 50/50 automotive mix with its own pump and
reservoir.
The mill I want to put the spindle on is a Fadal with the
> typical centrifugal coolant pump so the pressure isn't real high but
> there is lots of volume.
GPM pond pump. Your pump will probably put more coolant through it than
most.
I would add that if you plan to do nothing but short job, light engraving
you may even be able to run an air cooled motor, but the air cooled motors
are open. You can't run cutting water soluble cutting coolant if you do.
Even on the liquided motors the connector on the top is not water proof.
After verifying proper operation I tape the connector and fill the backside
with resin.
No matter what spindle you use I reccomened light fast machining approaches
to keep load on the spindle at a minimum. I like to max in corners and
stepover at 25% of rated spindle HP or less. They may in theory run their
rated HP, but not for very long. For just shallow engraving a .8kw or even
a .4kw spindle is more than adequate. HP calculations will show nearly
zero.
et...@whidbey.com
Apr 30, 2016, 3:37:10 PM4/30/16
to
On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:20:35 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99>
Thanks for the info Bob. I looked for 62mm dia spindles like the one
you described but only found 65mm dia spindles. Not that it matters. I
will, at least at first, only be engraving with single flute engraving
tools. I considered air cooled spindles but only briefly because of
the coolant issue. I'll just order me a little pump when I order the
spindle /VFD combination. I wanted to have a spindle that could be
mounted in a CAT 40 tool holder and built myself a prototype out of a
BLDC liquid cooled RC motor. It worked OK but I need to make some
improvements and just recently an old customer returned who wants a
lot of brass and parts engraved. He didn't know I could do this type
of work and the huge range of fonts available. He gets stuff stamped
with his text but it's expensive, especially if the font needs to be
changed because a new stamp must be made. On top of that the folks
doing the metal stamping keep the stamp. He saw some parts I had
engraved for another customer and was bowled over that I could easily
do this type of work because he really doesn't know what the
capabilities of modern CNC are.
Cheers,
Eric
you described but only found 65mm dia spindles. Not that it matters. I
will, at least at first, only be engraving with single flute engraving
tools. I considered air cooled spindles but only briefly because of
the coolant issue. I'll just order me a little pump when I order the
spindle /VFD combination. I wanted to have a spindle that could be
mounted in a CAT 40 tool holder and built myself a prototype out of a
BLDC liquid cooled RC motor. It worked OK but I need to make some
improvements and just recently an old customer returned who wants a
lot of brass and parts engraved. He didn't know I could do this type
of work and the huge range of fonts available. He gets stuff stamped
with his text but it's expensive, especially if the font needs to be
changed because a new stamp must be made. On top of that the folks
doing the metal stamping keep the stamp. He saw some parts I had
engraved for another customer and was bowled over that I could easily
do this type of work because he really doesn't know what the
capabilities of modern CNC are.
Cheers,
Eric
bruce2...@gmail.com
Apr 30, 2016, 4:29:49 PM4/30/16
to
whoyak...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:17:15 -0700 (PDT),
> bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Terry Coombs wrote:
>>>
>>> And who are you?
>>
>> What's it to you anyway, what I understand or
>> what I don't? All I told Mikek was that I thought
>> his question didn't belong here.
>
> This group decided long ago that nothing was off limits.
That probably is the case but sheesh, a request for such an explanation? ... Here?
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:17:15 -0700 (PDT),
> bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Terry Coombs wrote:
>>>
>>> And who are you?
>>
>> What's it to you anyway, what I understand or
>> what I don't? All I told Mikek was that I thought
>> his question didn't belong here.
>
> This group decided long ago that nothing was off limits.
Bob La Londe
May 1, 2016, 9:43:08 PM5/1/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:6r1aibl5qov1roe4g...@4ax.com...
I would definitely get a 65mm or even 80mm spindle over a 62mm. There are
some 62s out there, but they are not as common.
news:6r1aibl5qov1roe4g...@4ax.com...
some 62s out there, but they are not as common.
Bob La Londe
May 2, 2016, 10:43:59 AM5/2/16
to
You know... you can make stamps for him also. Case harden them when you are done. They will last pretty long.
et...@whidbey.com
May 2, 2016, 12:36:39 PM5/2/16
to
On Mon, 2 May 2016 07:43:54 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
<alarm_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You know... you can make stamps for him also. Case harden them when you are done. They will last pretty long.
Yeah, I could make stamps. More money in engraving though. And the
<alarm_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You know... you can make stamps for him also. Case harden them when you are done. They will last pretty long.
parts would look better because my customer can only hand stamp the
parts. He doesn't have the proper press for stamping his stuff.
Eric
Bob La Londe
May 4, 2016, 3:36:25 PM5/4/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:bk0fib1q2aaebcaa7...@4ax.com...
Fair enough. I just know engraving can be a pain too. Had a friend bring
me a lettuce knife to be engraved once. I detroyed three knives before I
got it right. I had to clamp it down really hard, map the surface with a
touch probe, and then project the engraving to the surface. When I machine
the surface its easy, but when I take it to an existing surface its a bit of
a pain.
news:bk0fib1q2aaebcaa7...@4ax.com...
me a lettuce knife to be engraved once. I detroyed three knives before I
got it right. I had to clamp it down really hard, map the surface with a
touch probe, and then project the engraving to the surface. When I machine
the surface its easy, but when I take it to an existing surface its a bit of
a pain.
et...@whidbey.com
May 4, 2016, 7:38:34 PM5/4/16
to
On Wed, 4 May 2016 12:35:53 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99>
wrote:
I'm already engraving stuff. Wrapping engraving to a surface can be
tough. I've done that, so I know what you went through. Since my top
spindle speed is 7500 engraving for me is slow. Not only that, when
cutting metal if the surface speed is too slow the tool pressure
really climbs. So I ordered me a 2.2KW ER20 2400 RPM liquid cooled
spindle with matching VFD this morning. A water pump too. Tomorrow
I'll order me some .0001 max runout ER collets from Precise Bits.
Since I have the spindle dimensions I can now start making the
mount. The spindle housing on the Fadal mill hangs down about 3 inches
from the head. This means that if I mount the new spindle up tight to
the machine's spindle housing there will be about 5 1/2 inches of
un-supported length of the new spindle hanging out in the wind. In
order to clamp the new spindle closer to even with the existing
spindle nose in the Z axis I will need to space the new spindle about
2 inches farther away from the Fadal spindle housing in order to clear
the head that holds the spindle housing. Which is probably best. On my
mill there is a program for warming up the spindle when it has been
idle for a while. Do your spindles require some sort of warming up
routine? I'm really jazzed about this new spindle and how much faster
I will be able to engrave. I also often use small diameter carbide
endmills and am always running them way below what they should be
running, SFPM wise. So maybe I can do some metal milling with the new
spindle too.
Eric
wrote:
tough. I've done that, so I know what you went through. Since my top
spindle speed is 7500 engraving for me is slow. Not only that, when
cutting metal if the surface speed is too slow the tool pressure
really climbs. So I ordered me a 2.2KW ER20 2400 RPM liquid cooled
spindle with matching VFD this morning. A water pump too. Tomorrow
I'll order me some .0001 max runout ER collets from Precise Bits.
Since I have the spindle dimensions I can now start making the
mount. The spindle housing on the Fadal mill hangs down about 3 inches
from the head. This means that if I mount the new spindle up tight to
the machine's spindle housing there will be about 5 1/2 inches of
un-supported length of the new spindle hanging out in the wind. In
order to clamp the new spindle closer to even with the existing
spindle nose in the Z axis I will need to space the new spindle about
2 inches farther away from the Fadal spindle housing in order to clear
the head that holds the spindle housing. Which is probably best. On my
mill there is a program for warming up the spindle when it has been
idle for a while. Do your spindles require some sort of warming up
routine? I'm really jazzed about this new spindle and how much faster
I will be able to engrave. I also often use small diameter carbide
endmills and am always running them way below what they should be
running, SFPM wise. So maybe I can do some metal milling with the new
spindle too.
Eric
Bob La Londe
May 4, 2016, 8:11:36 PM5/4/16
to
<et...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:1mvkibla1fjakgiif...@4ax.com...
Think of this for a change in thought process. You can rough with a 1/4 end
mill. LOL. Seriously I remove a lot of material with a 42deg 3FL .250 end
mill. Its not like hogging with a giant index mill, but its pretty
impressive for its size. I have a few molds I make where I have to remove
0.25 inches of material to rough shape the mold and leave a hinge boss.
110IPM, 20% stepover, 0.24 DOC roughing pass. Strictly in climb though so,
lots of rapids. The sound of the cut is pretty cool. (conventional makes
it scream.) Its not a high power cut, but it does the job.
If you do any 3D detail work a high speed spindle is like the difference
between night and next week compared to an old school 3.6-5K spindle.
I always run mine for a few minutes at their lower speed settings (8K)
before starting a job. I don't know if there is a proper warm up procedure,
but I figure a couple minutes with no load can't hurt at modest RPMs to warm
up the bearing grease can't hurt. After that they will be running all day
long with the only breaks being for tool changes and part changes. If I
have jobs setup right and blanks cut and ready then part changes don't take
much longer than tool changes.
news:1mvkibla1fjakgiif...@4ax.com...
mill. LOL. Seriously I remove a lot of material with a 42deg 3FL .250 end
mill. Its not like hogging with a giant index mill, but its pretty
impressive for its size. I have a few molds I make where I have to remove
0.25 inches of material to rough shape the mold and leave a hinge boss.
110IPM, 20% stepover, 0.24 DOC roughing pass. Strictly in climb though so,
lots of rapids. The sound of the cut is pretty cool. (conventional makes
it scream.) Its not a high power cut, but it does the job.
If you do any 3D detail work a high speed spindle is like the difference
between night and next week compared to an old school 3.6-5K spindle.
I always run mine for a few minutes at their lower speed settings (8K)
before starting a job. I don't know if there is a proper warm up procedure,
but I figure a couple minutes with no load can't hurt at modest RPMs to warm
up the bearing grease can't hurt. After that they will be running all day
long with the only breaks being for tool changes and part changes. If I
have jobs setup right and blanks cut and ready then part changes don't take
much longer than tool changes.
Martin Eastburn
May 5, 2016, 12:05:34 AM5/5/16
to
I engrave as well. Just finished engraving Bronze. My diamond
rotary bit was a bit deep and it did the work on the bronze. I am
going to do lighter next time, had to move the blank upward in a
different fixture and forgot to move the cutter. Tired mistake.
Eye lope showed nice numbers but they were a bit wide.
Getting the depth right on something you can't see can be tough.
Martin
rotary bit was a bit deep and it did the work on the bronze. I am
going to do lighter next time, had to move the blank upward in a
different fixture and forgot to move the cutter. Tired mistake.
Eye lope showed nice numbers but they were a bit wide.
Getting the depth right on something you can't see can be tough.
Martin
Larry Jaques
May 5, 2016, 9:50:13 AM5/5/16
to
On Wed, 4 May 2016 23:05:25 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>I engrave as well. Just finished engraving Bronze. My diamond
>rotary bit was a bit deep and it did the work on the bronze. I am
>going to do lighter next time, had to move the blank upward in a
>different fixture and forgot to move the cutter. Tired mistake.
>
>Eye lope showed nice numbers but they were a bit wide.
>
>Getting the depth right on something you can't see can be tough.
Martin, perhaps you could mount one of these near the bit:
<lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>I engrave as well. Just finished engraving Bronze. My diamond
>rotary bit was a bit deep and it did the work on the bronze. I am
>going to do lighter next time, had to move the blank upward in a
>different fixture and forgot to move the cutter. Tired mistake.
>
>Eye lope showed nice numbers but they were a bit wide.
>
>Getting the depth right on something you can't see can be tough.
http://tinyurl.com/z6r4umz endoscope
--
Education is that which remains when one has
forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein
Martin Eastburn
May 5, 2016, 11:26:00 PM5/5/16
to
http://smile.amazon.com/Fantronics-Endoscope-Waterproof-Borescopes-Inspection/dp/B01CL1QUCW?ie=UTF8&keywords=inspection%20camera&qid=1462504794&ref_=sr_1_12&s=industrial&sr=1-12
Not a tinyurl - but I bought this one - for my phone type.
Thank you for the idea. cleaver to work on phones
This one Android & PC.
Martin
Not a tinyurl - but I bought this one - for my phone type.
Thank you for the idea. cleaver to work on phones
This one Android & PC.
Martin
rangerssuck
May 7, 2016, 9:45:32 AM5/7/16
to
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 11:26:00 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> http://smile.amazon.com/Fantronics-Endoscope-Waterproof-Borescopes-Inspection/dp/B01CL1QUCW?ie=UTF8&keywords=inspection%20camera&qid=1462504794&ref_=sr_1_12&s=industrial&sr=1-12
>
> Not a tinyurl - but I bought this one - for my phone type.
>
> Thank you for the idea. cleaver to work on phones
> This one Android & PC.
>
> Martin
Nice find! I just ordered one - it will live in my toolbox, replacing the HF one that always has dead batteries and takes up much more space.
> http://smile.amazon.com/Fantronics-Endoscope-Waterproof-Borescopes-Inspection/dp/B01CL1QUCW?ie=UTF8&keywords=inspection%20camera&qid=1462504794&ref_=sr_1_12&s=industrial&sr=1-12
>
> Not a tinyurl - but I bought this one - for my phone type.
>
> Thank you for the idea. cleaver to work on phones
> This one Android & PC.
>
> Martin
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