NEW RESULTS was Chevy Kodiak dumptruck gasoline problems

[Ignoramus14054]

>
> "Ignoramus10095" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10095.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> I have a Chevy Kodiak dump truck that I am trying to fix.
>>>> Pictures of the truck and carburetor are here:
>>>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Chevy-Kodiak/
> Onboard computer bad ?
> Check fuel line pressure ?
>
> Looks like throttle body injection (TBI), lots of stuff to go wrong.
>

Tom, and others, I took some time off this problem, and also took some
time to work on it and diagnose it properly.

Yes, this is based on TBI (throttle body injection).

We replaced the fuel pump, at least some fuel filters, and injector
bodies.

It did not help. Even with new injector bodies, the fuel would, at
best, drip from the injectors. drip, drip, drip

Then I decided to NOT take shortcuts and diagnose things properly,
using proper troubleshooting techniques, organize my workplace etc.

As you know, before the injector bodies, there is a pressure
regulator. It has a spring inside. For testing purposes, I removed the
spring, essentially disabling pressure regulation.

We cranked the engine again, again to the same result. Dripping, not
enough fuel.

Then I measured the voltage supplied to injector bodies, it sort of
varied, but would hover around 2 volts. It seemed low.

Then, I took out the wires coming from the engine, plugged in my
little alligator clips, and supplied 4 volts to the injector body,
using my DC power supply.

Voila, the fuel came out in some force (but not as a shower), the
engine would start and run fine.

I put the regulator back in and, guess what, no fuel again,
even with 4 volts applied to injector bodies.

I ended my experiment right there and went home to think.

Clearly, without the pressure regulator (at full supplied fuel line
pressure), and with more volts supplied to injector bodies, the engine
runs. But what des it mean?

My current thinking is that I seemingly have two problems

1) Lack of fuel pressure
2) Lack of voltage supplied to the TBI.

I have a feeling that both items are a manifestation of the same
problem, which is lack of voltage in the fuel subsystem. I think that
both the fuel pump is not getting enough volts (so not enough fuel
pressure), and also, the injectors are not getting enough volts (so
they do not open properly).

Makes sense?

If so, what could it be? Bad ground?

i

[Larry Jaques]

Yes, that's possible. But electronic ignition systems and EFI are
computer controlled. Unless they get all their ducks in a row, things
don't work properly. Get the manual, get the test equipment and let
us know what you find. Or have a tech drop by with same and let you
know.

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

[Pete C.]

Bad grounds could certainly do it. The pressure regulator may be ok, but
the fuel pump may have a low voltage condition as well and not be
keeping up the appropriate flow.

[Jon Elson]

Ignoramus14054 wrote:


> 1) Lack of fuel pressure

Possibly the wrong fuel pump. I would expect this TBI needs
something close to 50 PSI at the minimum.

> 2) Lack of voltage supplied to the TBI.
>

Maybe not. The computer probably sends short pulse-width
modulated pulses of 12 V to the injectors. If the starter
isn't too noisy, you should be able to hear it clicking
when you crank. You can definitely hear the injectors on
most injection systems (but maybe not with the starter
running).

> I have a feeling that both items are a manifestation of the same
> problem, which is lack of voltage in the fuel subsystem. I think that
> both the fuel pump is not getting enough volts (so not enough fuel
> pressure), and also, the injectors are not getting enough volts (so
> they do not open properly).

Maybe, should be relatively easy to check. Yes, could be a bad
ground. The fuel pump is probably not controlled by much electronics.
There may be a fuel pump cutoff relay, but that usually is on
cars with airbags. But, I'd measure the fuel pump pressure.
Somewhere there ought to be a spec on fuel pump pressure. A
quick test just with a gauge connected to the pump would tell you
whether you are getting 10 PSI (carb pump) or 50 PSI (FI pump).

The injectors may be working perfectly, but with no fuel pressure,
the computer is applying short pulses that SHOULD be right at
the higher pressure.

Also, since the pressure regulator made a difference, it may show
that the regulator has a ripped diphragm, crud under the seat or
some other malfunction. Actually, a typical regulator would
set lower pressure without the spring. But, this one might not
be typical.

Jon

[Ignoramus14054]

Yes. The pressure regulator looks OK, in fact, there is not much that
could go wrong with it, and it looks like there is nothing wrong with
it.

i

[Ignoramus14054]

On 2012-02-29, Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
>

Pete, what sort of a manual would you recommend, I can shell out some
$$$, not only to save money on repairs, but to learn something.

Repair manual or what is it called?

i

[Ignoramus14054]

Larry, what sort of manual would you suggest?

[Larry Jaques]

The Chevrolet Truck service manual, Ig. Maybe eBay?
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Chevrolet+Kodiak+repair+manual

The dealership are way too damned proud of their manuals, wanting
several hundred dollars for them.

Second choice would be a Mitchell manual for the truck. We used them
for all repair work when I was a mechanic at non-dealer sites. They're
great! (Not cheap.) Try this link. (unknown to me)
http://www.mitchell1.com/M1Products/ris/mediumtruck/index.html

There's apparently some service recall on diesel injectors.
http://tinyurl.com/7xw8s9e

G'luck!

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:21:30 -0600, Ignoramus14054
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.14054.invalid> wrote:

>Pete, what sort of a manual would you recommend, I can shell out some
>$$$, not only to save money on repairs, but to learn something.
>
>Repair manual or what is it called?

In the old days, they were called Factory Service Manuals. YMMV

[Dennis]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:25:33 -0600, Ignoramus14054
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.14054.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

>> Larry, what sort of manual would you suggest?
>
> The Chevrolet Truck service manual, Ig. Maybe eBay?
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Chevrolet+Kodiak+repair+manual
>
> The dealership are way too damned proud of their manuals, wanting
> several hundred dollars for them.
>
> Second choice would be a Mitchell manual for the truck. We used them
> for all repair work when I was a mechanic at non-dealer sites. They're
> great! (Not cheap.) Try this link. (unknown to me)
> http://www.mitchell1.com/M1Products/ris/mediumtruck/index.html
>
> There's apparently some service recall on diesel injectors.
> http://tinyurl.com/7xw8s9e
>

I downloaded one from here last week: http://www.downloadamanual.net/

I was dubious about the site but all went well, <$20 for what looks like the
full factory manual set. Their search function is shite, it took me a while
to find what I wanted.


> G'luck!

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:07:33 -0600, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
wrote:

You say 2 volts and 4 volts.
This does not compute. WITH THE INJECTORS DISCONNECTED what voltage
do you have on one side of the injector with the key turned on?
It SHOULD be roughly 12 volts from terminal to ground. When the
computer triggers the injector, the computer GROUNDS the injector for
a short time. Measuring across the injector will give you a low
voltage that varies with fuel requirement.
A bad ground on the computer will cause a low voltage drop across the
injector which translates to low injector current and reduced injector
opening. The same will happen with high resistance in the power supply
circuit.
The voltage on the "feed " side of the injector should remain at 12
volts even when cranking (well, it WILL drop some - but it should
remain "battery voltage"). If it drops below battery cranking vultage
you have a bad connection somewhere in the power feed circuit.

To test the fuel pressure regulator pinch the rubber return line and
see what happens to the pressure. Those regulators have a bad
reputation, for a good reason. Note - the RETURN line, not the feed or
the vacuum signal line. The injection pressure is regulated to
provide the same pressure drop across the injector under WOT (low vac,
or high manifold absolute pressure) as under low throttle (high vac,
or low manifold absolute pressure) so a given period of injector
opening provides the same amount of fuel regardless of engine fuel
demand.

[Erik]

In article <0d8rk7hed547jo3f0...@4ax.com>,

Also take a look here for the manual/s:

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/

IIRC, depending on vehicle, they have original factory shop manuals
(FSM), reproduced FSM's and the ones like the DIY parts stores carry.
For some vehicles they even carry factory assembly, parts and owners
manuals.

I've only had one personal experience with them and it was positive.
Have some friends who speak highly of them too.

As the above poster mentioned, Mitchell manuals rock too.

And a question: is fuel leaking 'through' and dripping off your
injector/s, or somewhere else and just running down and off your
injector/s

In a nutshell, remember most (if not all) injectors are energized on one
lead anytime the key is on, and controlled via the ground side through
the computer. Needless to say, a good computers ground is very important.

Erik

[dpb]

On 2/28/2012 10:14 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

> There's apparently some service recall on diesel injectors.
> http://tinyurl.com/7xw8s9e

...

No bearing on TBI system on a gas engine, though...

--

[Pete C.]

If it's close enough to be of use, I could send you my old 1990 R,V,P,G
series service manual. It's far too big to scan all of it, but it would
fit in a PMFRB ok.

[Pete C.]

Jon Elson wrote:
>
> Ignoramus14054 wrote:
>
> > 1) Lack of fuel pressure
> Possibly the wrong fuel pump. I would expect this TBI needs
> something close to 50 PSI at the minimum.
> > 2) Lack of voltage supplied to the TBI.
> >

> Maybe not. The computer probably sends short pulse-width
> modulated pulses of 12 V to the injectors. If the starter
> isn't too noisy, you should be able to hear it clicking
> when you crank. You can definitely hear the injectors on
> most injection systems (but maybe not with the starter
> running).

You can get NOID lights on loan from many auto parts places (with
deposit), and the injectors are usually driven on the low side.

> > I have a feeling that both items are a manifestation of the same
> > problem, which is lack of voltage in the fuel subsystem. I think that
> > both the fuel pump is not getting enough volts (so not enough fuel
> > pressure), and also, the injectors are not getting enough volts (so
> > they do not open properly).

> Maybe, should be relatively easy to check. Yes, could be a bad
> ground. The fuel pump is probably not controlled by much electronics.
> There may be a fuel pump cutoff relay, but that usually is on
> cars with airbags.

Two sources of power to the fuel pump, one if the fuel pump relay
controlled by the PCM and the second is an oil pressure switch.

> But, I'd measure the fuel pump pressure.
> Somewhere there ought to be a spec on fuel pump pressure. A
> quick test just with a gauge connected to the pump would tell you
> whether you are getting 10 PSI (carb pump) or 50 PSI (FI pump).

According to the doc, the old TBI systems are supposed to run 9-13 PSI,
quite a bit less than the later MPFI systems. A FI pressure tester is
about $20 at the auto parts place.

[Ignoramus1127]

On 2012-02-29, Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
>

Where do they plug in?

[Ignoramus1127]

That would be awesome, I can paypal you for the pmfrb cost.

[Ignoramus1127]

I was measuring voltage between two terminals going to the injector
body, with an averaging voltmeter.

> It SHOULD be roughly 12 volts from terminal to ground. When the
> computer triggers the injector, the computer GROUNDS the injector for
> a short time. Measuring across the injector will give you a low
> voltage that varies with fuel requirement.

Right.

> A bad ground on the computer will cause a low voltage drop across the
> injector which translates to low injector current and reduced injector
> opening. The same will happen with high resistance in the power supply
> circuit.

Which is what a bad ground is, kind of .

> The voltage on the "feed " side of the injector should remain at 12
> volts even when cranking (well, it WILL drop some - but it should
> remain "battery voltage"). If it drops below battery cranking vultage
> you have a bad connection somewhere in the power feed circuit.

Sounds like a good thing to check, voltage on the feed side
vs. ground/body potential.

> To test the fuel pressure regulator pinch the rubber return line and
> see what happens to the pressure.

Another great idea, will try to find it.

> Those regulators have a bad reputation, for a good reason. Note -
> the RETURN line, not the feed or the vacuum signal line.

That vacuum line, I think, is disconnected, may be an issue.

> The
> injection pressure is regulated to provide the same pressure drop
> across the injector under WOT (low vac, or high manifold absolute
> pressure) as under low throttle (high vac, or low manifold absolute
> pressure) so a given period of injector opening provides the same
> amount of fuel regardless of engine fuel demand.

OK, why do the regulators have a bad reputation?

Thanks a lot

i

[Pete C.]

Just email me a mailing address and I'll see if I can get it shipped off
tomorrow.

[Ignoramus1127]

emailed

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:14:57 -0600, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com>
wrote:

It will be a very typical regulator - and no spring WILL make no
pressure. I've rebuilt and modified those regulators to make them
adjustable - friend's 350 TBI engine was running lean due to a
combination of lower than spec pressure and a modified Throttle Body.
The regulators are, as I said before, notorious for being in-accurate.
General spec is between 9 and 13 psi. This one was running at about 8
and dribbled. We set it to 15 and got a real good atomized spray
pattern, the fuel consumption dropped, power improved, and the truck
didn't run hot any more.

If he followed my instructions in my last post he'll KNOW where the
problem is NOT, even if it doesn't pin down exactly what the problem
is.

I've worked on this stuff a lot over the years - back when that thing
was current, but not so much today.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Not at all. The ground is in the CONTROL circuit.

[Ignoramus22470]

A followup. Very embarrassing and very typical.

What was wrong was that I mixed up the supply and return lines, so the
fuel pump was pumping into the return line.

The truck now runs great and I have a foot in my mouth.

i

[Ed Huntress]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:20:52 -0600, Ignoramus22470
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote:

>A followup. Very embarrassing and very typical.
>
>What was wrong was that I mixed up the supply and return lines, so the
>fuel pump was pumping into the return line.

Terrific for fuel economy!

>
>The truck now runs great and I have a foot in my mouth.
>
>i

That makes it hard to work the clutch and the throttle at the same
time.

--
Ed Huntress

[dpb]

So just out of curiosity what was the original fundamental problem
(presuming you didn't receive the truck w/ the lines reversed)?

I'm at least somewhat surprised could do that--on the GM trucks I have
here the lines aren't interchangeable--the feed line is larger than
return, typically.

--

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ignoramus22470" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote in
message news:NOadnTwtp9PpnMzS...@giganews.com...

Slava Bogy for easy fixes.

[Ignoramus22470]

The original problem was bad fuel pump in the tank.

I got the tank separated from the truck and hooked it up wrong. The
lines, unfortunately, were interchangeable.

i

i

[Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)]

Oops. There is something to be said for keeping a roll of tape and a
Sharpie handy, and tagging things as they come apart so you can make
sure they go back together the same way.

And/or take a few pictures before you start, and a few more as you go,
of how it went together. (Sometimes you have to make an un-planned
stop for a day or two, and totally forget.)

And/or grab a paint marker and permanently mark "Vent" and "Supply"
and "Return" on the steel lines once you figure out which is which -
then you can check that against the markings on the pump when it's
going back together.

I still do silly things that, even when it's a job I've done hundreds
of times. 99% of the time it goes back together easy, but there's
always the one time in a hundred it doesn't...

Oh, and as you put it back together you put the date on those hoses
and clamps and on the fuel pump itself a White Paint Marker is perfect
for that. You just replaced the hoses in 2012, no sense in forgetting
when you did them last and trying to change them again till at least
2020. Some of those high-pressure fuel hoses are $10 plus a foot.

Date and Mileage on the Oil Filter canister too.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Ignoramus22470]

On 2012-03-02, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) <bruceNOSP...@gmail.INVALID> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 13:05:17 -0600, Ignoramus22470
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2012-03-02, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/2/2012 11:20 AM, Ignoramus22470 wrote:
>>>> A followup. Very embarrassing and very typical.
>>>>
>>>> What was wrong was that I mixed up the supply and return lines, so the
>>>> fuel pump was pumping into the return line.
>>>>
>>>> The truck now runs great and I have a foot in my mouth.
>>>
>>> So just out of curiosity what was the original fundamental problem
>>> (presuming you didn't receive the truck w/ the lines reversed)?
>>>
>>> I'm at least somewhat surprised could do that--on the GM trucks I have
>>> here the lines aren't interchangeable--the feed line is larger than
>>> return, typically.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>The original problem was bad fuel pump in the tank.
>>
>>I got the tank separated from the truck and hooked it up wrong. The
>>lines, unfortunately, were interchangeable.
>
> Oops. There is something to be said for keeping a roll of tape and a
> Sharpie handy, and tagging things as they come apart so you can make
> sure they go back together the same way.

I received them apart, I never had them assembled correctly.

The tank was on the shelves and the truck was in the yard.

i

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:20:52 -0600, Ignoramus22470
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote:

I hope you at least trimmed your toe-nails first!!!

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 13:05:17 -0600, Ignoramus22470
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote:

So they were reversed AT THE PUMP. I can see that happening if it came
to you in pieces and you were not familiar with the system - - - -.

[Ignoramus22470]

Exactly. Came in pieces, I was not familiar.

i

[Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:42:27 -0600, Ignoramus22470
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote:

>I received them apart, I never had them assembled correctly.
>
>The tank was on the shelves and the truck was in the yard.

Oh, missed that part - and it's totally understandable.

That's one of the things that GM usually does, they make the hoses a
different size so they can't go together backwards.

Which is maddening because you think you've got a roll of the right
hose before you started the job, then you need to stop work and go run
off to the Auto Parts and get the other size hose...

[dpb]

On 3/3/2012 1:50 PM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:42:27 -0600, Ignoramus22470
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.22470.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I received them apart, I never had them assembled correctly.
>>
>> The tank was on the shelves and the truck was in the yard.
>
> Oh, missed that part - and it's totally understandable.
>
> That's one of the things that GM usually does, they make the hoses a
> different size so they can't go together backwards.

...

Indeed which is why I still find it at least a little puzzling it was
doable. But, I've not had a Kodiak version of the Chebby; only the C60
(which is seriously old as in antique) and the C70 is only about 15 yr
newer. Since then we've gone to the tractor/trailer route for actual
hauling, 4-500 bu that seemed big load way back when just won't cut it
now when it's a 2 hr or longer wait-time to unload :( .

--

[Ignoramus20398]

Well, all lines were interchangeable, size wise. Not all could reach
to all nipples, but some could (and were) mixed up.

I have decided that until I find a cheap enough and suitable enough
semi trailer for my semi tractor, I will use the dump truck and the
15k trailer that I have, for moving industrial surplus stuff around.

i
i

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:18:57 -0800, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" <bruceNOSP...@gmail.INVALID> wrote:

>
> Oops. There is something to be said for keeping a roll of tape and a
>Sharpie handy, and tagging things as they come apart so you can make
>sure they go back together the same way.

A couple times a year I pick up a bag of mixed color 4" cable ties for
exactly this sort of thing. Tag both sides of a joint with say..green
tie wraps. Its a hell of a lot easier than using tape in tight quarters
and doesnt matter if they get covered with fluid(s)

Works fine with motor wiring, plumbing, air fittings etc etc

Just leave the tails on and if you want..cut them loose (or not) when
the job is done.



Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

[Jon Elson]

Oh, GOSH! Well, when working with unfamiliar equipment with
multiple hoses, it is easy to have something like this happen.
That would certainly foul up the regulator function and explain
why the spring worked opposite of how it should. Take the
foot out, you DID find and fix the problem, it just took a little
bit longer!

Jon

[Jon Elson]

Ignoramus20398 wrote:


>
> I have decided that until I find a cheap enough and suitable enough
> semi trailer for my semi tractor, I will use the dump truck and the
> 15k trailer that I have, for moving industrial surplus stuff around.

Oh MY! Be REALLY careful which handle you grab, or a big lathe could get
dumped in the middle of the street!

Jon

[Ignoramus20398]

Yes, the excuse I had is that I have never seen it connected
correctly, and the lines are compatible even with wrong nipples.

Thanks

i

[Ignoramus20398]

On 2012-03-04, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com> wrote:

\A scary thought. As a matter of fact, I believe that I cannot operate
the dump unless I am in neutral.

i

[Steve W.]

Got your CDL yet? If not I wouldn't be driving that dump around.

--
Steve W.

[Ignoramus28705]

Yep. Studying hard right now.

i

[dpb]

On 3/3/2012 11:10 PM, Ignoramus20398 wrote:
...

> \A scary thought. As a matter of fact, I believe that I cannot operate
> the dump unless I am in neutral.

That's _very_ unlikely; any dump would want to be able to spread a load
of gravel, for example.

You'll have to clutch to engage the PTO, but when you let it out, it
won't care which gear the tranny is in...

--

[dpb]

There's a second hydraulic valve control as well that will have to be
closed(/opened depending on your point of view :) ) to cause the bed to
raise as well...so you won't be raising it by pure chance on the
interstate. :)

While we're telling stories, I'll relate one I did as a HS kid working
for local ready-mix guy one summer it was too hot/dry so had no field
work at home on the farm. Hauling dirt from foundation/floor slab prep
work on the new hospital wing here to a fill location on south side of
town. I'd made a bunch of trips that day, was getting late and was
tired and ready to go do something more exciting for the evening when I
forgot to pull the tailgate lever before raising the bed on one load.
All of a sudden, I'm looking at a about a 45 degree angle up to the
north as the truck body returns to the "fully upright and locked
position" w/ the load still on.

A little startled from my daydreams, I considered there really was no
alternative but to try the lever (which, fortunately, was one of those
mounted on the front of the bed by the driver's door so could do from
the cab w/o getting out of the truck. If it hadn't been, would have
been a trick to get there as it was quite a ways down to the ground at
that point :) ). So, I pull and WHAM! the front wheels hit the ground,
the engine dies and I bounce around in the cab pretty good. Get out,
look around, see no blown tires or oil on the ground so climb in crank
up and go on. No harm, no foul... :) I did learn not to do _that_
again, though. :) I was probably 16 that year if my years aren't too
mixed up; think that would have been after my sophomore year in HS.

--

[Ignoramus28705]

OK, I got it. Thanks.

i

[Ignoramus28705]

On 2012-03-04, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

So I am not the only one who does things like this, nice.

i

[Baron]

Ignoramus28705 Inscribed thus:

Actually that reminds me of a guy driving off a building site with the
tipper body still up and ripping down a local power line. Fortunately
no one got hurt but it stopped traffic for the rest of the day.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

[GeoLane at PTD dot NET]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:36:34 -0600, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:


> I'd made a bunch of trips that day, was getting late and was
>tired and ready to go do something more exciting for the evening when I
>forgot to pull the tailgate lever before raising the bed on one load.
>All of a sudden, I'm looking at a about a 45 degree angle up to the
>north as the truck body returns to the "fully upright and locked
>position" w/ the load still on.

I did that once too when driving truck during summer vacations during
college. Fortunately I was backed up to a pile. The front end was
off the ground, but the pile behind kept it from going as high as
yours did. The loader operator and I managed to get the dump handle
to release the tailgate. It was wedged pretty tight by the force of
the load. I think we may have had to use a hammer on the handle to
release it. I don't remember getting bounced around in the cab like
you did. Those were the days back in the early 70's - no CDL
requirement yet.

RWL

[grmi...@rogers.com]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 20:35:54 +0000, Baron <ba...@linuxmaniac.net>
wrote:

Or the soil testing drill rig crew moving around the airport runway
approach area with the mast up, when they caught the overhead telecom
cable, snapping off six of the old, rotten support poles. fortunately
the cable wasn't damaged but the drill rig sat there for two weeks
until the whole section of cable was re routed underground. Hell of a
way to save ten minutes at each stop by not lowering the mast for each
move, also it happened Friday afternoon. Luckily they weren't held
liable for the full cost, just the extra cost of advancing the
schedule by a year.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Baron wrote:
>
> Actually that reminds me of a guy driving off a building site with the
> tipper body still up and ripping down a local power line. Fortunately
> no one got hurt but it stopped traffic for the rest of the day.

We had that happen to the main trunkline on our cable system in
Cincinnati. The idiots were tipping the beds as they drove off the
highway, into the gravel yard for their next load and more than one
ripped it down. The first was classed an accident. The second cost them
$15,000 in repairs. They refused to pay, until our corporate lawyers
informed them we would file leans on all their assets, and shut the
plant down till it was paid. Amazingly, they had no more 'accidents'
after that. :)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

[David Lesher]

Baron <ba...@linuxmaniac.net> writes:


>Actually that reminds me of a guy driving off a building site with the
>tipper body still up and ripping down a local power line. Fortunately
>no one got hurt but it stopped traffic for the rest of the day.

I recall a county snowplow who took out a mile of telephone lines.
Ma Bell was not happy with him...



--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Gunner Asch]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2012 00:04:03 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com>
wrote:

>Baron <ba...@linuxmaniac.net> writes:
>
>
>>Actually that reminds me of a guy driving off a building site with the
>>tipper body still up and ripping down a local power line. Fortunately
>>no one got hurt but it stopped traffic for the rest of the day.
>
>I recall a county snowplow who took out a mile of telephone lines.
>Ma Bell was not happy with him...

We had a guy who was pissed at my old man...something about not fixing a
crappy old clock to his satisfaction or some such. The guy was a drunk
and a county snow plow driver. So several times a winter..he would swing
wide and nail our mail box. Dad would bitch at the county office..he
would lay off for a couple weeks, and then nail it again.

So after a really good snow fall one winter..we drug out the hose..and
started icing a mound around the mail box..about a 8' circle and about
45 inches tall, and then let the falling snow finish the job.

Come the next morning..we were out waiting for the snow plow..and here
he came...45-50 mph..and he swing in and nailed that big mound of ice.
Flipped that plow truck right over on its roof and he was sliding down
the road, upside down. Those were the days of no seat belts..and it
bounced him around the inside of the cab really well. We called the
cops and his boss..told him the driver of plow such and such was upside
down and might be in trouble..and we simply waited for them to show
up..never going over to check on him. I should mention we didnt tell Dad
what we were doing..he wouldnt have approved in the slightest..but when
he heard that the snow plow had flipped over after nailing our mail box
(again) he was quietly smiling for days. Derogga (the drunk) got busted
up and had his front teeth knocked out after trying to eat the gear
shift knob..and was off work for quite a while..and was then quietly
shuffled into doing mechanics work in the shop, where he wound up
crushing himself to death after trying to do something..while drunk..and
the lift came down on him. Didnt bother to set the safety
latches....<VBG>

The word got around that Dad had been responsible for killing him with
the lift..not in the slightest bit true..it was investigated
completly..but no one fucked with Dad after that.

I remember sitting in a bar and Dads name came up.."hell of a nice
guy..but fuck with him too much and you are gonna die in an accident"

Of course this was an area where bar fights on a Saturday night often
involved chainsaws. Gurk!! Some tough ol boys in those days.

[Phil Kangas]

"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:4ufml7pt5tinol1tu...@4ax.com...

Don't try -that- mailbox stunt in this day and
age, you'll be in
deep doo-doo!

[Michael A. Terrell]

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> We had a guy who was pissed at my old man...something about not fixing a
> crappy old clock to his satisfaction or some such. The guy was a drunk
> and a county snow plow driver. So several times a winter..he would swing
> wide and nail our mail box. Dad would bitch at the county office..he
> would lay off for a couple weeks, and then nail it again.

I used to live on a bust highway and the jerks would shove a huge pile
in front of my work truck, just to piss me off. That stopped, when i
fired the truck up one day and shoved most of the mound back into the
middle of the highway. ;-)

> Of course this was an area where bar fights on a Saturday night often
> involved chainsaws. Gurk!! Some tough ol boys in those days.

The REALLY bad dudes didn't bother to start them, they just dragged
them back & forth on their victims! ;-)

[Gunner Asch]

What stunt? <VBG> It was just "naturally formed ice" which formed
around a mailbox for some strange reason.

And it was a fair piece off the roadway..we had it 10 feet off the
shoulder with a wide "turn out" and perfect acess to the mailbox for the
mailman.