OT My second electric bike

[John Doe]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Assuming it works... The structure holding the drill is two pieces of
aluminum flatbar and eight bolts. Bought a long, mountain bike seat post
to help reinforce the aluminum tube. Besides being longer than usual,
the seatpost is 2/10 of a millimeter greater diameter than it's supposed
to be, it's a very snug fit into the shaft. The simplicity and
functionality of the drill holder is hugely better than the first bike.
Barely tightening the bolts and it's a very sturdy fit. Some superglue
might be added where the flatbar meets the tube, and maybe some hot melt
glue to the drill handle area.

Next and last is making the trigger controller. On eBay, somebody wraps
a bike handgrip cable around the drill and then around the trigger. But
it might be done simply by connecting the cable sleeve to the trigger
and securing the end of the cable just beyond the trigger (towards the
back of the drill).

Someday, adding a spring to the drive train would be useful. As is,
power must be engaged carefully.

[John Doe]

Pictures have been added. So far, so so. Have taken it around the block a
few times, and taken it about 2 miles to and from the store. The DCD995
gearcase makes more noise than the DCD780. It's more powerful and top
speed is higher. The gearcase seems to get warm easily. I'm using Park
Tool grease in the gearcase. Strangely, there seems to be no
slapping/banging against the freewheel pawls when throttle is applied.
This time I'm using a derailer for the chain tensioner instead of using a
homemade semi-rigid chain tensioner. But I don't understand how that stops
the banging when the sprocket catches up to the wheel speed. Maybe it has
something to do with the brushless motor. Whatever, if it is as it seems
to be, that's great. Still to be determined is top speed, miles per amp
hour, and durability.



--

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Thu, 5 May 2016 03:05:13 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>Pictures have been added. So far, so so. Have taken it around the block a
>few times, and taken it about 2 miles to and from the store.

Dude, you are almost at the same level as Skybuck Flying.

You could have saved pennies in a piggy bank and gotten together
enough for a hub motor AND a battery by now.

You'll be lucky to get a 200 foot range with that at 3 miles an hour.

An old 50s style automotive generator configured as a motor would do
better. I made a go-cart with one back in '72.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Thu, 5 May 2016 03:05:13 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

> I'm using Park
>Tool grease in the gearcase.

You should try whale oil.

[John Doe]

Regular troll...

--
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in news:91gliblnc85t5t9pcu8fch1201u3hn7b9p 4ax.com:

> Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: OT My second electric bike
> Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 23:41:52 -0400
> Organization: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg
> Lines: 15
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> Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org rec.crafts.metalworking:475007 sci.electronics.design:416863

>
> On Thu, 5 May 2016 03:05:13 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

> <always.look message.header> Gave us:

[John Doe]

This post shows how little the tough guy wannabe AlwaysWrong knows about
the subjects it comments on. In fact, my first such bike gets 1 mile per
amp hour. That's 10 miles on two batteries.

--
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in news:91gliblnc85t5t9pcu8fch1201u3hn7b9p 4ax.com:

> Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: OT My second electric bike
> Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 23:41:52 -0400
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>

> On Thu, 5 May 2016 03:05:13 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

> <always.look message.header> Gave us:

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Thu, 5 May 2016 07:40:28 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>This post shows how little

You are just pissed because I properly pegged you as being even more
stupid than the group invading Skybuck idiot is.

What you did is not a metalworking craft, nor is it electronics,
dipshit. Go the fuck away, boy.

Nor is it a viable method of propulsion for even a single human.

You are so stupid, you likely do not even know what a sun gear is.

And you are a stupid Usenet top posting retard, AND you are a stupid
Usenet group adding dumbfuck.

[John Doe]

Added a bunch of pictures.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Good acceleration with a top speed of at least 18 miles per hour (I want
it limited to 20, so that's about right). Much easier to operate than
the first version, using a modified Shimano Revo twist grip instead of a
foot operated lever for the throttle control that is like a motorcycle
throttle.

Still to determine miles per amp hour. Considering the fact that the
less powerful cordless drill (DCD780) still works perfectly after almost
one year of use (I'll probably use it to replace my old NiCad drill),
I'm confident this more powerful brushless drill (DCD995) will hold up
for years.

Strangely and pleasantly there still appears to be no clunking like the
first version when applying throttle and when the sprocket catches up to
the wheel speed. Maybe it has something to do with dumping the homemade
chain tensioner and using a spring tensioned derailer instead. All I
hear is the gear case beginning to apply force.





--

[Ed Huntress]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 13:09:41 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote:

>Added a bunch of pictures.
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/
>
>Good acceleration with a top speed of at least 18 miles per hour (I want
>it limited to 20, so that's about right). Much easier to operate than
>the first version, using a modified Shimano Revo twist grip instead of a
>foot operated lever for the throttle control that is like a motorcycle
>throttle.
>
>Still to determine miles per amp hour. Considering the fact that the
>less powerful cordless drill (DCD780) still works perfectly after almost
>one year of use (I'll probably use it to replace my old NiCad drill),
>I'm confident this more powerful brushless drill (DCD995) will hold up
>for years.
>
>Strangely and pleasantly there still appears to be no clunking like the
>first version when applying throttle and when the sprocket catches up to
>the wheel speed. Maybe it has something to do with dumping the homemade
>chain tensioner and using a spring tensioned derailer instead. All I
>hear is the gear case beginning to apply force.

I'm writing a magazine article about cordless power tools. I'd like to
use one of your photos (or maybe you'd like to shoot one just for the
article) and a few lines about your experience. I need it by early
next week.

Interested? If so, send me an email to my business email address,
which is ehun...@techgenmedia.com

--
Ed Huntress
VP/Editorial Director
Techgen Media LLC
www.fsmdirect.com

[Jim Wilkins]

"John Doe" <alway...@message.header> wrote in message
news:njee6l$e22$1...@dont-email.me...

> Added a bunch of pictures.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/
>
> Good acceleration with a top speed of at least 18 miles per hour (I
> want
> it limited to 20, so that's about right). Much easier to operate
> than
> the first version, using a modified Shimano Revo twist grip instead
> of a
> foot operated lever for the throttle control that is like a
> motorcycle
> throttle.
>

> Still to determine miles per amp hour. ...

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-100V-Display-Multimeter-Voltmeter/dp/B013PKYILS/191-6082558-0108163?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

I housed the shunt in a plastic conduit tee fitting. The separate
ground power and sense leads are necessary. It does NOT read reversed
current.

--jsw

[John Doe]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "John Doe" <alway...@message.header> wrote:

>> Added a bunch of pictures.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/
>>
>> Good acceleration with a top speed of at least 18 miles per hour (I
>> want it limited to 20, so that's about right). Much easier to operate
>> than the first version, using a modified Shimano Revo twist grip
>> instead of a foot operated lever for the throttle control that is
>> like a motorcycle throttle.
>>
>> Still to determine miles per amp hour. ...
>
> https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-100V-Display-Multimeter-
Voltmeter/dp/B013PKYILS/191-6082558-0108163?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
>
> I housed the shunt in a plastic conduit tee fitting. The separate
> ground power and sense leads are necessary. It does NOT read reversed
> current.

I would love to have a current meter up on the handlebar. But, besides
figuring out the specific wiring for the cordless drill, I'm concerned about
sending the current on that long detour.

[mog...@hotmail.com]

I've seen those electric bikes riding around. I see some of the specs are "takes 4 hours to recharge", 20 mph for 20 miles (not including pedaling). Beach front, that sounds pretty good on a clear day.

[John Doe]

Or does the load current flow through the shunt?

So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
handlebars and back?




--

[JW]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:05:41 -0000 (UTC) John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote in Message id:
<njeogk$hf4$2...@dont-email.me>:

Might be pricey as it's Fluke, but there are probably cheaper ones out
there.
http://en-us.fluke.com/products/clamp-meters/fluke-381-true-rms-clamp-meter.html

https://www.google.com/#q=current+meter+with+remote+display

[Jim Wilkins]

"John Doe" <alway...@message.header> wrote in message

news:njeogk$hf4$2...@dont-email.me...

The 100A model has a separate shunt you put in the negative cable from
the motor to the battery, and then run four thin sense wires to the
remote display. The 20A one has an internal shunt and is better suited
to mounting in the charger. They read current and calculate power in
one direction only so you need two if you want to monitor both charge
and discharge.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery1.htm
If the drill battery has a temperature sensor connection be sure to
extend it as well as the power leads, unless you want to leave a trail
of red flame behind you.

--jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"JW" <no...@dev.null> wrote in message
news:qtpllbt63o39o11ij...@4ax.com...

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-look-at-the-uni-t-ut210e/

[JW]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:49:52 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com>
wrote in Message id: <njer22$t0s$1...@dont-email.me>:

I don't think that one has a remote display, though. JD would like to have
the display on the handlebars, but does not want to extend the wire on the
bike to get there.

[John Doe]

After reading... Apparently what they do is place a resistor/shunt on
the current path, and they measure the voltage drop across that shunt.
So it's not like routing the power all the way up to the handlebars and
back.

Obviously measuring current would be very useful. The mentioned product
looks good as long as current doesn't go over 100 A.

[John Doe]

Extend it where? I think temperature sensing is handled by the battery
and/or the controller. Unless the temperature of the shunt needs to be
monitored? I think the battery temperature is monitored internally. And
the battery temperature sensor is acted upon in the battery and/or in the
controller. Your circuit is just an additional load on the drill AFAIK.
Maybe because that load is before the controller there might be a problem?
Anyways, seems like the meter load would be insignificant.

[Jim Wilkins]

"John Doe" <alway...@message.header> wrote in message
news:njetdg$4jo$1...@dont-email.me...

It displays voltage as ##.##V, current to #.##A with decent accuracy,
plus power (Volts * Amps) to 0.1W and the accumulated energy in
Watt-hours since the last reset. The Watt-hours consumed in a mile,
divided by the battery voltage, gives you the Amp-Hours used.
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/electric/wh-to-mah.htm

--jsw

[John Doe]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-100V-Display-Multimeter-
Voltmeter/dp/B013PKYILS/191-6082558-0108163?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

> It displays voltage as ##.##V, current to #.##A with decent accuracy

> plus power (Volts * Amps) to 0.1W and the accumulated energy in
> Watt-hours since the last reset. The Watt-hours consumed in a mile,
> divided by the battery voltage, gives you the Amp-Hours used.
> http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/electric/wh-to-mah.htm

The battery will be inserted and removed several times per day. Should I
put capacitors across the current meter power supply inputs? Anyplace
else? What value? Thanks.

[Jim Wilkins]

"John Doe" <alway...@message.header> wrote in message

news:njfgbi$ach$1...@dont-email.me...

The meter's microcomputer stores the accumulated energy value in
nonvolatile memory so it doesn't need to be powered continuously. I
plugged mine into the nearly dark solar panel a few minutes ago,
without a load, and it still shows 1041Wh from when I discharged a
battery through it last winter.

The only real electrical consideration is to be aware that the thin
wires to the display are directly connected to the battery and could
burn if shorted to each other or the frame. I made the connections at
the conduit tee fitting that encloses the shunt with in-line
fuseholders similar to these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J8S194Q?psc=1

--jsw

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:05:41 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>I would love to have a current meter up on the handlebar. But, besides
>figuring out the specific wiring for the cordless drill, I'm concerned about
>sending the current on that long detour.

You ain't real bright. Ever heard of a shunt and a voltmeter?

Sheesh.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:19:17 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>Or does the load current flow through the shunt?
>
>So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>handlebars and back?
>

With your lack of grasp of electronics, you should be over in the
basics group.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 17:29:21 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

The fact that you are oblivious as to this BASIC electronic principle
proves you should not be in this group.

BASICS is the group you should be in, and you barely qualify for that
one.

[krw]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:19:17 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote:

>Or does the load current flow through the shunt?

Yes, then you measure the *voltage* across the shunt. This can be
done with small wire. The primary concern is mechanical.

>So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>handlebars and back?

That's exactly what it means. ;-)

Ignore AlwaysWrong. He doesn't how to do this anyway.

[John Doe]

I usually just Ignore Subthread on his posts. I would reply more often,
but replies are probably the only time most people see his posts.

Difficult to believe anyone would dispute such a simple and clever idea.

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2016-06-10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 17:29:21 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
><alway...@message.header> Gave us:
>
>>JW <no...@dev.null> wrote:
>>
>>> "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in Message id:

[ ... ]

>>> I don't think that one has a remote display, though. JD would like to
>>> have the display on the handlebars, but does not want to extend the
>>> wire on the bike to get there.
>>
>>After reading... Apparently what they do is place a resistor/shunt on
>>the current path, and they measure the voltage drop across that shunt.
>>So it's not like routing the power all the way up to the handlebars and
>>back.
>>
>>Obviously measuring current would be very useful. The mentioned product
>>looks good as long as current doesn't go over 100 A.
>
> The fact that you are oblivious as to this BASIC electronic principle
> proves you should not be in this group.

"This group" happens to be two newsgroups. It is cross-posted.
The newsgroups header is:

======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.design
======================================================================

> BASICS is the group you should be in, and you barely qualify for that
> one.

He started out discussing this in rec.crafts.metalworking and I
don't know whether *he* added sci.electronics.design to the newsgroups
list, or whether someone else added it, expecting it to be a better
place to get the needed information. If the latter, he may not even
have noticed the addition of your newsgroup, just as *you* did not
notice rec.crafts.metalworking was part of the cross-posting.

You could add the basics newsgroup to the Newsgroups header, and
result in even more vituperation -- especially from those who do not
notice the other newsgroups.

And -- you could add a "Followup-To: " to the headers, which
would make only the replies to your articles go to the named
newsgroup(s), and other replies would still be cross-posted as before,
so it is a loosing battle.

Yes, a good shunt down at the motor/battery interface to measure
current, and two more leads for the voltage across the motor should
allow display of everything he wants. (Actually, three leads would
suffice, if done right) But if routed up to the handlebars, while light
gauge wire would do nicely to carry the voltage signals up to the meter
on the handlebars, I would advise fuses in all wires, in case they get
pinched together. (I don't know whether anything is grounded to the
frame, but a pinch which cuts through the insulation could get exciting
if the wires run along the frame near his thighs.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Jim Wilkins]

"DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:slrnnlmpr8.95...@Katana.d-and-d.com...

>
> Yes, a good shunt down at the motor/battery interface to measure
> current, and two more leads for the voltage across the motor should
> allow display of everything he wants. (Actually, three leads would
> suffice, if done right) But if routed up to the handlebars, while
> light
> gauge wire would do nicely to carry the voltage signals up to the
> meter
> on the handlebars, I would advise fuses in all wires, in case they
> get
> pinched together. (I don't know whether anything is grounded to the
> frame, but a pinch which cuts through the insulation could get
> exciting
> if the wires run along the frame near his thighs.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.

I tried three leads so I could exchange the shunt connections with a
DPDT switch to read current in the Charging direction. The backlight
draws enough current to significantly offset the sensed shunt voltage,
which is only 75mV full scale, and 75uV at 0.1 Amp. It really needs
separate power and sense wires.

--jsw

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:21:06 -0400, krw <k...@nowhere.com> Gave us:

You're an idiot, and you know nothing about my abilities.

[rickman]

Yes, the shunt has to have a separate high current path with no
terminals in common with the sense leads, but also the meter power
should not run on the sense wires to limit the meter reading its own
power draw since the sense voltages are so small. When I looked at the
diagrams for the various modes of wiring none show sharing of the sense
and meter power leads.

--

Rick C

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 00:32:08 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>krw <k...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> John Doe <alway...@message.header> wrote:
>>
>>> Or does the load current flow through the shunt?
>>
>> Yes, then you measure the *voltage* across the shunt. This can be
>> done with small wire. The primary concern is mechanical.
>>
>>> So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>>> handlebars and back?
>>
>> That's exactly what it means. ;-)
>>
>> Ignore AlwaysWrong. He doesn't how to do this anyway.
>
>I usually just Ignore Subthread on his posts.

After you re-quote and re-post them? You are a hypocrite.

> I would reply more often,
>but replies are probably the only time most people see his posts.

You have been listening to the idiots again.

>Difficult to believe anyone would dispute such a simple and clever idea.

I was using precision current shunts before you knew what a nine volt
against the tongue was like, little boy.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:19:17 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote:

>Or does the load current flow through the shunt?
>
>So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>handlebars and back?

In this power meter, the shunt is inside the meter enclosure. That
means you do have to run heavy gauge wires from the battery to
display. I couldn't find anything with similar features and with an
external shunt.

It's not too clear on the Amazon page, but is mentioned on the
BangGood page as:
"Bult-in shunt design, no extra needed"
<http://www.banggood.com/20A-DC-Digital-Multifunction-Power-Meter-Energy-Monitor-Module-Voltmeter-Ammeter-6_5V-100V-p-996111.html>
also:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/bayite-DC-6-5-100V-0-20A-LCD-Display-Digital-Current-Voltage-Power-Energy-Met/191892056524>


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

and a drill motor is not the most intelligent solution for an
electric bike either. - - -

[krw]

Oh, yes we do, AlwaysWrong. You got that name for good reason.

[rickman]

I seem to recall its working pretty well, no?

--

Rick C

[Gunner Asch]

Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.

Why not simply install a LCD volt/amp meter?

These are what I install in all the power systems in my sailboats.
Work just fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-100V-100A-DC-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-LED-Amp-Volt-Meter-Current-Shunt-/291079963241



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Gunner Asch]

^ 5 !!!

Indeed.

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:26:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:19:17 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
><alway...@message.header> wrote:
>
>>Or does the load current flow through the shunt?
>>
>>So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>>handlebars and back?
>
>In this power meter, the shunt is inside the meter enclosure. That
>means you do have to run heavy gauge wires from the battery to
>display. I couldn't find anything with similar features and with an
>external shunt.
>
>It's not too clear on the Amazon page, but is mentioned on the
>BangGood page as:
> "Bult-in shunt design, no extra needed"
><http://www.banggood.com/20A-DC-Digital-Multifunction-Power-Meter-Energy-Monitor-Module-Voltmeter-Ammeter-6_5V-100V-p-996111.html>
>also:
><http://www.ebay.com/itm/bayite-DC-6-5-100V-0-20A-LCD-Display-Digital-Current-Voltage-Power-Energy-Met/191892056524>

Check Ebay..there are a gazillion volt/amp meters with remote shunts.
When ordering one..be sure to order one WITH the shunt. They come with
and without.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xvolt+amp+meter.TRS0&_nkw=volt+amp+meter&_sacat=0

[Steve W.]

John Doe wrote:
> "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "John Doe" <alway...@message.header> wrote:
>
>>> Added a bunch of pictures.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/
>>>
>>> Good acceleration with a top speed of at least 18 miles per hour (I
>>> want it limited to 20, so that's about right). Much easier to operate
>>> than the first version, using a modified Shimano Revo twist grip
>>> instead of a foot operated lever for the throttle control that is
>>> like a motorcycle throttle.
>>>
>>> Still to determine miles per amp hour. ...
>> https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-100V-Display-Multimeter-
> Voltmeter/dp/B013PKYILS/191-6082558-0108163?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
>> I housed the shunt in a plastic conduit tee fitting. The separate
>> ground power and sense leads are necessary. It does NOT read reversed
>> current.
>
> I would love to have a current meter up on the handlebar. But, besides
> figuring out the specific wiring for the cordless drill, I'm concerned about
> sending the current on that long detour.

Easy to do. A shunt is nothing more than a piece of conductive material
with a known resistance.

With a known resistance it is easy to determine current by measuring the
voltage drop across the resistance.

Basic Ohms law.
V = I X R

Say you have a shunt with a known resistance of .001 ohms. If you pass a
current of 50 amps across that shunt you would be able to measure a
voltage drop of 50 millivolts.

BUT to make this a bit simpler, Go grab a automotive maxi-fuse that will
handle the load (keep in mind that Li-ion batteries can put out a LOT of
current.) Now visit
http://info.powerprobe.com/fusechartsdownload
and download the correct chart.

Connect the fuse in the positive power feed from the battery. Connect a
millivolt meter to the fuse terminals. Now compare the voltage you
measure to the chart for a maxi-fuse. It will tell you the current flow.

Another option is to make a high current shunt. 4.83 inches of 4 gauge
copper wire = .001 ohm resistance. This will handle a 130 amp draw
continuously.

--
Steve W.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:26:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

Gave us:

>In this power meter, the shunt is inside the meter enclosure. That
>means you do have to run heavy gauge wires from the battery to
>display. I couldn't find anything with similar features and with an
>external shunt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-100A-Meter-Voltage-Current-Power-Energy-Combo-Monitor-for-Car-Battery-Solar-/361386546620?hash=item54245115bc:g:XqsAAOSwGotWseEx

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:42:57 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca Gave us:

When I said that he called me a troll.

He is worse than Donald J. Trump in that respect.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
Gave us:

>Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.

Of course they do. Where have you been for the last several decades?

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:08:24 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

Gave us:

>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 23:08:44 -0400, krw <k...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:16:40 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
>><DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:21:06 -0400, krw <k...@nowhere.com> Gave us:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:19:17 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>>><alway...@message.header> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Or does the load current flow through the shunt?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, then you measure the *voltage* across the shunt. This can be
>>>>done with small wire. The primary concern is mechanical.
>>>>
>>>>>So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>>>>>handlebars and back?
>>>>
>>>>That's exactly what it means. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>Ignore AlwaysWrong. He doesn't how to do this anyway.
>>>
>>> You're an idiot, and you know nothing about my abilities.
>>
>>Oh, yes we do, AlwaysWrong. You got that name for good reason.
>
>^ 5 !!!
>
>Indeed.

Says the retarded idiot who thinks that most handheld meters will not
read DC current.

You are an idiot.

[Jim Wilkins]

"rickman" <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:njfse1$5uq$2...@dont-email.me...

I didn't have a 3PDT switch handy to try, so the DPDT proved the
concept despite the sense voltage error. A 3PDT switch would cost
about as much as a second meter anyway. Separate meters for charge and
discharge will totalize the energy in and out of the battery
separately while a single meter with a reversing switch will add them
together, which isn't very useful.

I settled on a 100A Bayite meter to monitor discharge and a 20A one to
monitor charge. The 100A one is on a long cable so I can see how much
battery power the inverter's loads draw as I turn them on and off, the
20A one on the charger whose constant output doesn't need watching.
Both show the battery voltage. They aren't as informative as the
industrial datalogger I installed on an experimental electric vehicle
but they are good enough for home projects.

A possible fault condition with the reversing switch is the B- contact
open and the meter's operating current trying to pass through the
sense leads, which might overload the input clamp diodes.
http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/49-10/esd-diodes.html

--jsw

[John Doe]

Chronic troll a.k.a. "AlwaysWrong"...

--
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in news:9dcnlb15aihasp9gd506asaihhlos99liu 4ax.com:

> Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: OT My second electric bike
> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:38:09 -0400
> Organization: WeAreDecadatedDawtOrg
> Lines: 37
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> Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org rec.crafts.metalworking:477098 sci.electronics.design:421310
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:08:24 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch gmail.com>
> Gave us:

>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 23:08:44 -0400, krw <krw nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:16:40 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

>>><DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:21:06 -0400, krw <krw nowhere.com> Gave us:

[JW]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700 Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote in Message id: <aa3nlbhusrqt11c87...@4ax.com>:

Click on the specs tab:
http://en-us.fluke.com/products/clamp-meters/fluke-381-true-rms-clamp-meter.html#techspecs

DC Current
Range 999.9 A
Resolution 0.1 A

[John Doe]

rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>> and a drill motor is not the most intelligent solution for an
>> electric bike either.
>

> I seem to recall its working pretty well, no?

There have been no intelligent reasons given for why a cordless drill
won't reliably power a bike. One said it's not good for continuous use,
but that line is copied from a disclaimer in the manual. So far, the
DCD995 brushless motor doesn't even get warm. The gearbox gets warm, but
it was chewed up from trying to remove the chuck. It will be swapped for
a better one that's on hand, if need be. I suppose gearboxes tend to get
warm anyway.

The drills are $90 new on eBay for the bare tool. Including the case,
motor, controller, gearbox, and battery holder.

As for making the bike, the only difficult part to make is the front
sprocket holder, cutting a neat square hole through a 3/8 inch thick
aluminum disk.

Having to remove the battery when it's parked isn't ideal, but it's
versatile. One small battery is enough for short trips. The batteries
can be used with tools. They are ultra easy to upgrade. Dewalt has an
adapter so they can serve as a 5 V USB power supply or charger.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:njg92p$1ja$1...@dont-email.me...

Such homebrew lashups are OK on a lab bench but not in a road vehicle.
http://www.virginiawind.com/tips/060801_01.asp

I was building production test stations for GM in the mid 70's when
they first incorporated vehicular electronics more complex than a
purchased radio and the freshly minted electrical engineers they hired
had to learn about real-world environmental conditions the hard way. I
had been an Army electronic repairman and already knew about mud and
rain and bouncing down dirt roads, but GM couldn't afford to use
Mil-$pec connectors.

--Sgt JSW

[Jim Wilkins]

"JW" <no...@dev.null> wrote in message

news:2l1olblg9mn318bjl...@4ax.com...

Choke on the price:
https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-381-Remote-Display-True-RMS/dp/B004BF5ZEQ

[Frogs]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.

LOL Amazing Electrician/Electronics tech Wieber has yet to learn
about the popularity of Hall Effect clamp meters.

Here, Wieber. Welcome to the 20th century.
http://en-us.fluke.com/training/training-library/test-tools/clamp-meters/inside-hall-effect-clamp-meters.html

And amateurs needn't pay Fluke prices.

http://tinyurl.com/hr9mfoh

http://tinyurl.com/zm5mc2z

[JW]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 09:00:41 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com>
wrote in Message id: <njh20a$abn$1...@dont-email.me>:

It can be had for less, though:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-381-Remote-Display-True-rms-AC-DC-Clamp-Meter-with-18-inch-iFlex-Probe-/201598344742?hash=item2ef0329e26:g:KVQAAOSwOVpXVNDR

[Jim Wilkins]

"JW" <no...@dev.null> wrote in message

news:il5olbtklftdahi64...@4ax.com...

So far the UT210E has been fine for my hobbyist use:
https://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-UT210E-Current-Meters-Capacitance/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ/189-3065956-8446848?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref_=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3

It won't measure car starting current but I have other ways to do
that.
http://www.stuttgartperformanceengineering.com/inductiveammater.html

It -will- show the key-off drain from a car battery without
disconnecting the battery and triggering the radio's anti-theft
lockout.

It zeros to within a few milliamps. The main error seems to come from
changing its orientation in the Earth's magnetic field between zeroing
it and clamping it on the wire.

It immediately became my favorite ammeter, though the autorange-only
voltage is less impressive. Uni-T makes a superb meter for voltage and
you need two meters to measure both voltage and current at the same
time anyway, for example checking battery or solar panel output under
varying loads.
https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Multimeters-Capacitance-Measurement-Connection/dp/B007THZMWI/184-4678406-3599963?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
The specs don't mention that it displays 4-1/2 digits.

--jsw

[Jeff Liebermann]

Good find. I missed that one.

However, there's a problem. If you look at the photos of their wiring
diagram, you'll notice that there's a connection between the DC Load
resistor + terminal, and the power supply + terminal, while the
negative wires are split between the load resistor and the power
supply. In other words, this is a positive common ground system and
may NOT work with a common negative ground for both the battery (power
supply) and load. That's not a problem with a solar charger, floating
charger, or no charger as in the electric drill, but will be a problem
if you have a negative ground system.

I've run into the same problem with the LED meter modules that have
both a voltmeter and ammeter in one package.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:42:23 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote:

>There have been no intelligent reasons given for why a cordless drill
>won't reliably power a bike.

I don't have any experience with brushless motors, but have played
with various brushless drills. However, that's never stopped me from
offering a bad guess(tm) based on Googling and reading.

Brushless seem to have one big advantage. Thanks to tachometer
feedback, they're constant RPM. This video shows it better than I can
(also with some interesting drill related stuff):
"Advantages of a brushless cordless drill"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jwaSELVvs> (7:32)

A typical brushless torque-power curve at:
<http://www.micromo.com/technical-library/dc-motor-tutorials/motor-calculations>
shows that the brushless motor is more efficient at high RPM's, and
delivers an output peak in the middle of the operating range. Offhand,
I would think it would not do well on hill climbs, where the RPM's
might drop too low to deliver max power.

It's possible that the DeWalt drill has the same 11 step speed motor
controller as shown in the video, which would make tolerable throttle
control. However, that eliminated the possibility of using the drill
motor as a "pedal assist" type eBike, where the motor only supplies
enough power needed to keep the pedal torque (and pedaling effort)
low. That won't work if the effort required is variable, such as an
uneven or bumpy road. The idea is to use as little motor power as
possible to extend battery life.

Offhand, I would say the motor is just fine and probably superior to a
brush type DC motor, but the drill speed control might be a problem
matching it to variable loads found on a bicycle.

Good luck.

[Ed Huntress]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 09:21:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

I'm working with DeWalt on a related article, and I'm going to ask for
their reaction to the bike. I can't wait to hear what they say about
it. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:k5folbdvs8ers9ab6...@4ax.com...

They may have to limit their approval for safety reasons. We did some
stunts with the lab Segways that we would never suggest to customers.

--jsw

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:31:55 -0400, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>I'm working with DeWalt on a related article, and I'm going to ask for
>their reaction to the bike. I can't wait to hear what they say about
>it. d8-)

Just show DeWalt what can be done with chainsaws:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+motorcycle&tbm=isch>
and suggest that they can do the same with a dozen electric drills on
a tandem or recumbent bicycle. Such things are totally useless but do
attract considerable attention. There have also been other drill
powered bicycles:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+motorcycle&tbm=isch>
but I can't seem to find anything on the scale of the chainsaw
motorcycles. Yeah, bigger is better.

Don't forget about electric drill powered robots:
<http://alsrobotics.rapidrobux.co.uk/dk-expo.html>
and walking machines:
<http://hackaday.com/2015/07/10/drill-powered-scooter-walks-with-legs/>
all of which should burn out, errr... sell, a fair number of drill
motors.

Maybe a book on 100 ways to misuse your electric drill. I guess this
should be on the cover:
<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3000324/Monk-needs-meditation-like-hole-head-Kung-fu-master-uses-electric-drill-temple-without-breaking-skin.html>

[David Billington]

I've got the UT70B version and have found the RS232 comms feature useful
for data logging on a number of occasions. Looks just like the one you
linked to. I used to write Windows software for force and torque testing
equipment so just modified a version of that to capture and graph the
readings.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:b8colb5l4n3gotlhv...@4ax.com...

There are digital ammeters that can read current in the positive leg,
using isolated power supplies. I have an XL5135-DCA20A powered from a
wall wart..
http://www.futurlec.com/Panel_Meters.shtml

The 5V supply floats to 3V above and 2V below the input from the
shunt, so it can read both positive and negative currents without
exceeding its common mode range.

http://www.gmelectronica.com.ar/datasheets/XL5135V.pdf

I bought some of these and checked that they work, but haven't tried
them with a meter yet:
https://www.amazon.com/Quality-Isolated-Module-Converter-10-16V/dp/B00P7Q7QPE/188-8209040-7884905?ie=UTF8&keywords=dc%20dc%20converter%20isolated&qid=1456843892&ref_=sr_1_105&sr=8-105
"One of well known application is to apply this module to a digital
current meter to avoid common ground effect, especially for automobile
such as a car, a boat, and a bike."

--jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message

news:cfgolbhc94h89vtq1...@4ax.com...

...

> <https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+motorcycle&tbm=isch>
> but I can't seem to find anything on the scale of the chainsaw
> motorcycles. Yeah, bigger is better.
>

Chainsaw airplanes?
http://lazairinfo.com/
"...the prototype had two chainsaw engines that produced a total of 11
hp (8.2 kW)."

http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/acft2/41.htm

jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"David Billington" <d...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:njhjuc$cpr$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 11/06/16 16:11, Jim Wilkins wrote:

....

>> https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Multimeters-Capacitance-Measurement-Connection/dp/B007THZMWI/184-4678406-3599963?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
>> The specs don't mention that it displays 4-1/2 digits.
>>
>> --jsw
>>
>>
> I've got the UT70B version and have found the RS232 comms feature
> useful for data logging on a number of occasions. Looks just like
> the one you linked to. I used to write Windows software for force
> and torque testing equipment so just modified a version of that to
> capture and graph the readings.

I wrote a QBasic program to capture the data, intending to command an
external low voltage disconnect relay over the parallel port which
QBasic under DOS gives full I/O-register-level control over. Windows
periodically grabs the port to poll for an attached printer.

However it's easier to use a solar panel controller as the automatic
battery low voltage load disconnect and log data with the meter's
included Windows program. I can run up to four meter programs on
COM1-4 and combine their separate data logs in Excel by aligning the
time stamps.


--jsw

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 23:39:39 -0400, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 6/10/2016 10:42 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:46:51 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
>> <DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:05:41 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>> <alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>>>
>>>> I would love to have a current meter up on the handlebar. But, besides
>>>> figuring out the specific wiring for the cordless drill, I'm concerned about
>>>> sending the current on that long detour.
>>>

>>> You ain't real bright. Ever heard of a shunt and a voltmeter?
>>>
>>> Sheesh.

>> and a drill motor is not the most intelligent solution for an

>> electric bike either. - - -

>
>I seem to recall its working pretty well, no?

When he gets 1000 miles on it we'll see. And it's a pretty crappy
installation with the drill sticking out the side

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

And you still have an "illegal motorcycle" when you are done. It's
not a legal elecrtric assist bycycle - and since it doesn't have dot
approved tires and proper brakes it's not a motorcycle. You also don't
have DOT approved lighting or anything else required to make it either
a motorcycle or a scooter - and without pedals it's not a moped.

It's just an abortion - a useless toy that is illegal to use on the
road.

[Jim Wilkins]

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:34oolbldkf1lvh979...@4ax.com...

He needs this hanging behind the seat as a backup in case the DeWALT
fails:
http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drillimg/d5Alg.jpg

[Jeff Liebermann]

>There are digital ammeters that can read current in the positive leg,
>using isolated power supplies. I have an XL5135-DCA20A powered from a
>wall wart..
>http://www.futurlec.com/Panel_Meters.shtml
>
>The 5V supply floats to 3V above and 2V below the input from the
>shunt, so it can read both positive and negative currents without
>exceeding its common mode range.
>
>http://www.gmelectronica.com.ar/datasheets/XL5135V.pdf
>
>I bought some of these and checked that they work, but haven't tried
>them with a meter yet:
>https://www.amazon.com/Quality-Isolated-Module-Converter-10-16V/dp/B00P7Q7QPE/188-8209040-7884905?ie=UTF8&keywords=dc%20dc%20converter%20isolated&qid=1456843892&ref_=sr_1_105&sr=8-105
>"One of well known application is to apply this module to a digital
>current meter to avoid common ground effect, especially for automobile
>such as a car, a boat, and a bike."
>
>--jsw

Thanks. Those will be a big help. I ran into the positive ground
problem trying to use a combined V/A meter in a benchtop power supply.
I ended up punching a 2nd hole in the box, and using separate volt and
amp LED meters. The voltmeter wasn't a problem, but I had to build a
small isolated power supply for the ammeter.

I can also be a problem with solar panels, where code demands that one
power wire be at earth ground potential. The panel power lines can be
floating for 12 and 24V systems, but need to be grounded for anything
running on a higher voltage, which is just about everything:
<http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/design-installation/ask-experts-grounding-dc-systems>
Fortunately, most places where I needed to add metering and monitoring
are 12V RV systems, which are not a problem.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:38:09 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

<DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:08:24 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>Gave us:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 23:08:44 -0400, krw <k...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:16:40 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
>>><DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:21:06 -0400, krw <k...@nowhere.com> Gave us:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:19:17 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
>>>>><alway...@message.header> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Or does the load current flow through the shunt?
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, then you measure the *voltage* across the shunt. This can be
>>>>>done with small wire. The primary concern is mechanical.
>>>>>
>>>>>>So there is no need to route the load current all the way up to the
>>>>>>handlebars and back?
>>>>>
>>>>>That's exactly what it means. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Ignore AlwaysWrong. He doesn't how to do this anyway.
>>>>
>>>> You're an idiot, and you know nothing about my abilities.
>>>
>>>Oh, yes we do, AlwaysWrong. You got that name for good reason.
>>
>>^ 5 !!!
>>
>>Indeed.
>
> Says the retarded idiot who thinks that most handheld meters will not
>read DC current.
>
> You are an idiot.

You are an idiot if you think "most" induction meters will read DC
amps.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Gunner Asch]

Making a living using them. Unlike you.

[Gunner Asch]

Kool!! Thanks. Ill have to look for one. None of my other induction
meters (Fluke T5-600) will measure DC amp using the induction sensor.
I understand that the new Hall Effect meters may do DC....

Gunner

[Frogs]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:11:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I understand that the new Hall Effect meters may do DC....

There's no "may" about it, and nothing "new" either, Mr. Phony
Electronics Tech.

[Frogs]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:04:34 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:37:10 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
><DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>Gave us:
>>
>>>Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.
>>
>> Of course they do. Where have you been for the last several decades?
>
>Making a living using them.

But you're not actually making a living.

****On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:15:07 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: ....My bank account was EMPTY..zero dollars.*****

And you're no electrician or electronic tech.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.survivalism/msg/551e94166afc0da2

"As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a
complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his
"Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE
CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't
anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled
together were shit. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of
miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was
pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull shitting. A
ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings
but not Gunner."

> Unlike you.

I suspect that he, like me and everybody else here, has more than zero
in their bank account. It's hilarious that you're learning about DC
clamp meters in public.

[Gunner Asch]

Thanks. Its been 5 or more years since I bought a clamp on amp meter
and it wouldnt do DC. Im glad to see that they are making them
affordably now.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:32:13 -0700, Frogs <f...@hf.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:04:34 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:37:10 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
>><DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>Gave us:
>>>
>>>>Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.
>>>
>>> Of course they do. Where have you been for the last several decades?
>>
>>Making a living using them.
>
>But you're not actually making a living.
>
>****On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:15:07 -0700, Gunner Asch
>wrote: ....My bank account was EMPTY..zero dollars.*****

And today there is "several" hundred in my bank account. Oh..I
see...its been decades since you actually earned a living besides that
pesky welfare check...so you forgot about "feast or famine" aspect of
being a private contractor didnt you. Tsk tsk tsk....

And of course..you are still a drunk..and mentally ill.

>
>And you're no electrician or electronic tech.
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.survivalism/msg/551e94166afc0da2
>
>"As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a
>complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his
>"Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE
>CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't
>anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled
>together were shit. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of
>miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was
>pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull shitting. A
>ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings
>but not Gunner."

(Grin)..it was a rusty nasty mess..and the fuses were blown..so to
find out if anything worked...it required bypassing the blown fuses.
As I recall...you didnt have any of those fuses and neither did I.

As for the manual...didnt have one when I was around, Johnny Boi.

>
>> Unlike you.
>
>I suspect that he, like me and everybody else here, has more than zero
>in their bank account. It's hilarious that you're learning about DC
>clamp meters in public.

So how many DC clamp meters do YOU have? I have 5 clamp meters. None
of them will do DC. Looks like I will probably need to find one in the
near future, though to be fair..I have very little need for a clamp on
DC amp meter. Shrug....its not something I need to check very often.
Nearly all of my service will require AC only gear. But having a DC
might be nice a couple times a year. Maybe. All my boats have a shunt
type panel meter...they work nicely for my application. How many of
YOUR boats have them? Hummm?

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

Depends on what the definition of "new" is, isnt it, you slovenly
drunk....

[Jeff Liebermann]

>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 14:18:00 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>http://www.futurlec.com/Panel_Meters.shtml

>>http://www.gmelectronica.com.ar/datasheets/XL5135V.pdf
That's a data sheet for an AC V/A meter, not DC. The drill motor is
powered by DC.

Incidentally, there are also self powered DC voltmeters such as:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-LED-DC2-5-30V-Red-Volt-Voltage-Meter-Display-Digital-Voltmeter-Self-Powered-/360732171649>
There are applications where it's not necessary to measure down to
zero volts and where a 2.5v - 30v range is acceptable. However, that
does nothing for the ammeter, which will not run on the millivolts
produced across the shunt resistor.

[John Doe]

BMW cylinders hung out to the sides.
Has this troll ever built anything?

--
clare snyder.on.ca wrote in news:34oolbldkf1lvh9799sbj2a2p6vkijidvi 4ax.com:

> Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: clare snyder.on.ca
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: OT My second electric bike
> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:04:26 -0400
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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> Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org rec.crafts.metalworking:477125 sci.electronics.design:421380
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 23:39:39 -0400, rickman <gnuarm gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>On 6/10/2016 10:42 PM, clare snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:46:51 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
>>> <DLU1 DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 16:05:41 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

>>>> <always.look message.header> Gave us:

[Jim Wilkins]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message

news:q9uolb5u79jco7ncc...@4ax.com...

>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 14:18:00 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>http://www.futurlec.com/Panel_Meters.shtml
>
>>>http://www.gmelectronica.com.ar/datasheets/XL5135V.pdf
> That's a data sheet for an AC V/A meter, not DC. The drill motor is
> powered by DC.

Scroll down, the DC meter is there too.
"This diagram shows the connection of Xieli XL5135 series DC panel
meter."

[John Doe]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He needs this hanging behind the seat as a backup in case the DeWALT
> fails: http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drillimg/d5Alg.jpg

I've handled older drills than that...
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/antique-drill-olivier-le-queinec.jpg

I'm sure a namebrand cordless drill is more reliable than the equivalent
electric bike parts. And the rest of the bike is made efficient to the extreme.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message

news:q9uolb5u79jco7ncc...@4ax.com...

https://www.amazon.com/DROK-0-28High-0-999-9mA-3-000A-Voltmeter-Automotive/dp/B00IZTTAKO/179-1188047-0765010?ie=UTF8&qid=1401108428&ref_=sr_1_53&s=hi&sr=1-53

A brief trip to 4A didn't seem to damage mine. It's a pretty good
match to an LM350 regulator. This one is more suited to an LM338:

https://www.amazon.com/DROK-DC0-100V-voltmeter-Multimeter-Monitoring/dp/B00BYKRETK/ref=pd_cp_60_1/179-1188047-0765010?ie=UTF8&refRID=WJHFF22V35RR6M1VPRA5

--jsw

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

Steve W. wrote:
>
> Easy to do. A shunt is nothing more than a
> piece of conductive material with a known resistance.

That's a way to describe parallel circuitry.

[Ed Huntress]

I really don't care about their approval. I don't need it. What I want
to know is if they'll spray their coffee all over their keyboards.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:7b3plb9metj8nu3fu...@4ax.com...

Dunno about marketing types, but the repair department has undoubtedly
seen everything imaginable, and may have a museum collection.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:42:23 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>There have been no intelligent reasons given for why a cordless drill
>won't reliably power a bike.

Bullshit. You are an unintelligent dolt.

Humans can produce about 1.2 HP for a very short burst period. They
can typically produce about 0.1 HP steady state... and go for miles...
at several tens of miles an hour.

If your inane drill motor and battery setup cannot do that, it is a
foolish endeavor.

There are plenty of REAL solutions already in the channel and you can
buy the raw motor and attach it any way you like if you have some lame
idiot thing against pre-designed solutions.

Do some math for a change, punk.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:02:51 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
Gave us:

>You are an idiot if you think "most" induction meters will read DC
>amps.
>

Where did anyone say a damned thing about "induction meters"?

Most modern meters are DVMs.

[Frogs]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:50:51 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:32:13 -0700, Frogs <f...@hf.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:04:34 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:37:10 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
>>><DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>>Gave us:
>>>>
>>>>>Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.
>>>>
>>>> Of course they do. Where have you been for the last several decades?
>>>
>>>Making a living using them.
>>
>>But you're not actually making a living.
>>
>>****On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:15:07 -0700, Gunner Asch
>>wrote: ....My bank account was EMPTY..zero dollars.*****
>
>And today there is "several" hundred in my bank account.

Wow! Time to move to Beverly Hills! Is Hotel Econoline out of the shop
yet or will you have to take the bus?

>>And you're no electrician or electronic tech.
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.survivalism/msg/551e94166afc0da2
>>
>>"As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a
>>complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his
>>"Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE
>>CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't
>>anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled
>>together were shit. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of
>>miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was
>>pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull shitting. A
>>ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings
>>but not Gunner."
>
>(Grin)..it was a rusty nasty mess.

That you sold him, and were supposed to clean up as part of the deal.

>.and the fuses were blown..so to
>find out if anything worked...it required bypassing the blown fuses.

By his account, it didn't. And I believe him, because you're a phony.

>As I recall...you didnt have any of those fuses and neither did I.

I'm not him, and according to him, you didn't need any fuses, you
needed new batteries. I believe him because he sounds normal, and
you're a pretender.

>As for the manual...didnt have one when I was around, Johnny Boi.

He says he got the manuals for you. I believe him, because you're a
pathological liar.

>>> Unlike you.
>>
>>I suspect that he, like me and everybody else here, has more than zero
>>in their bank account. It's hilarious that you're learning about DC
>>clamp meters in public.
>

> I have 5 clamp meters.

Wow! Forget Beverly Hill, move to Cape Canaveral!

> None of them will do DC.

Well, at least you finally learned that DC clamp meters exist, and
that even you might someday be able to afford one. You could use it to
pinch your nose which should come in handy after sleeping in your
truck.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:04:34 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

Gave us:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:37:10 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
><DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>Gave us:
>>
>>>Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.
>>
>> Of course they do. Where have you been for the last several decades?
>
>Making a living using them. Unlike you.
>
>

You're an idiot. I have several down in the lab right now and also
have current clamps for levels above what the baseline meter can handle.

You are batting -1000, child.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:51:58 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
Gave us:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:29:36 -0700, Frogs <f...@hf.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:11:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I understand that the new Hall Effect meters may do DC....
>>
>>There's no "may" about it, and nothing "new" either, Mr. Phony
>>Electronics Tech.
>
>Depends on what the definition of "new" is, isnt it, you slovenly
>drunk....
>
>

You are worse than a goddamned Drumpf supporter when you have your
foot shoved into your face.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:09:10 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> Gave us:

>BMW cylinders hung out to the sides.
>Has this troll ever built anything?

To you everyone is a troll.

Then, in your pathetic responses, you add fucking groups to your post.
So who is the troll, dumbfuck. That would be you, Usenet retard.

You ain't real bright, boy.

[Frogs]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:51:58 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:29:36 -0700, Frogs <f...@hf.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:11:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I understand that the new Hall Effect meters may do DC....
>>
>>There's no "may" about it, and nothing "new" either, Mr. Phony
>>Electronics Tech.
>
>Depends on what the definition of "new" is

They've been around for a long time, very affordable for at least 10
years, and ridiculously cheap for at least 5. Yeah, I guess that's
"new" to somebody like you. You could get one for about $30 on
PayPal's Pay After Delivery plan. Would 2 weeks be enough for you to
raise $30?

Hey Wieber, did you get your property tax bill for your mobile home
yet? What are the odds it will go to lien like all the others? Which
works best for you, to skip paying the rent on the lot, or skip paying
the tax?

[amdx]

It seems to be a bit of an elusive number, but somewhere between 12%
and 20% of families have a negative net worth. The bottom 40% have a
combined negative net worth, but that is because a third of those have
such great debt that it wipes out any positive net worth the rest have.
About half of families couldn't come up with $1,000 if their car broke
down.
Mikek

[Frogs]

How many of those make hilarious claims like these?

"When was the last time you attended a Black Tie dinner function with
the president of a Fortune 500 Company? Last year for me. When was the
last time you sat down over pizza and discussed the
economy with a world class economist? Last month, for me."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.survivalism/msg/36cd1553d4b2efac

Wieber's negative net worth and being broke and misrepresenting
himself are givens. But it's the claims that he's putting the names of
everyone he disagrees with on a death list that really got him into
trouble.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.politics.guns/sqedKaK3LOM

BTW, he still insists that everything he said in all that quoted
material is true!

[Alexander Galaxy]

On 06/10/2016 11:37 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:06:15 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
> Gave us:
>
>> Im not sure that Fluke will do DC amps. Very few will.
>
> Of course they do. Where have you been for the last several decades?

Gunner's been stranded in a mobile home, in TAFT, a shitty little town
that got bypassed by civilization when Interstate 5 went in, letting
travelers sneak past by while avoiding the dump by 20 miles.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:30:22 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote:

>"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> He needs this hanging behind the seat as a backup in case the DeWALT
>> fails: http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drillimg/d5Alg.jpg
>
>I've handled older drills than that...
>http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/antique-drill-olivier-le-queinec.jpg

Not old enough:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=bow+drill&tbm=isch>
You might need to add a ratchet or automagic reversing gear so that it
only rotates in one direction.

>I'm sure a namebrand cordless drill is more reliable than the equivalent
>electric bike parts. And the rest of the bike is made efficient to the extreme.

I beg to differ. Safety bicycles have the benefit of about 125 years
of development and testing. Brushless electric drills, maybe 10
years. My various bicycles tend to last 20-30 years.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/5bikes.html>
My brush type drills, maybe 10 years of light use, or 2 years if I do
serious drilling or loan them to the neighbors. I recently recycled
two Black and Decker cordless (NiCd powered) drills because they were
so worn out that they were not worth fixing. My guess is about 10
years old and the batteries were still functional. Extra credit to
Skil(?) for selling a right angle grinder with non-replaceable
brushes. Anyway, my bicycles are far more reliable and longer lasting
than my power tools.

[Jim Wilkins]

"amdx" <noj...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:nji954$s9o$1...@dont-email.me...

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/24/475432149/could-you-come-up-with-400-if-disaster-struck

[Frogs]

Yeah but he insists he owns a quarter of his block! But as you know,
the property records say he owns nothing.... on which he says he's
going to put up a shop.

"Im going to put up a 30x50 steel
building on the empty lot to the left of the house."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/745fd34b5e5a19a9

Hey Wieber! How's that building coming along? LOL

[krw]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 19:07:53 -0500, amdx <noj...@knology.net> wrote:

...but they have a $600 car payment, or two.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 17:27:33 -0700, Alexander Galaxy <nor...@anaks.com>

Gave us:

Well at least he did not get mentored by Kaczynski. Sounds like he
wanted to though.

[krw]

I'd have to walk into the other room and get my wallet.

[Ed Huntress]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 18:59:04 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
<DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:42:23 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
><alway...@message.header> Gave us:
>
>>There have been no intelligent reasons given for why a cordless drill
>>won't reliably power a bike.
>
> Bullshit. You are an unintelligent dolt.
>
> Humans can produce about 1.2 HP for a very short burst period. They
>can typically produce about 0.1 HP steady state... and go for miles...
>at several tens of miles an hour.

Huh? At "several tens of miles an hour" on 0.1 HP? Someone should have
told me that when I got my AYH Century in 1965. It took me close to 13
hours to pedal 100 miles, and I also raced bicycles in road sprints,
so I had decent horsepower.

>
> If your inane drill motor and battery setup cannot do that, it is a
>foolish endeavor.

It sounds more like a fun experiment to satisfy one's curiosity.

>
> There are plenty of REAL solutions already in the channel and you can
>buy the raw motor and attach it any way you like if you have some lame
>idiot thing against pre-designed solutions.
>
> Do some math for a change, punk.

Doing math isn't much fun. Building things to experiment with can be a
lot of fun.

--
Ed Huntress

[Martin Eastburn]

Been there I see. Oh on the wrong side of the tracks maybe.
I have.
Martin