Re: Robot locomotives

[Richard Persing]

On 6/9/2017 4:45 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
> I was doing some fishing up near the townsite of Toland off the
> Burlington Northern railroad near the Moffat Tunnel and noticed their
> are no humans controlling the locomotives waiting on the siding while
> some train coming the other direction gets the right of way. I guess
> some Silicon VAlley startup has figured away to put all railroad
> engineers out of work, losing their pensions and livelihood to robots. I
> wonder if they're is going to be an uprising as good paying jobs get
> eliminated by automation and Amazon.

No, there will be no uprising.

[Richard Persing]

On 6/9/2017 8:45 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> All of this begs the 800 pound question no one at the top wants to
> address. What happens to the 70% of the economy that is consumer
> spending when no one has a job.

People will have jobs. There will always be some tasks that aren't
automated. "Lump of labor" is a fallacy. "Lump of labor" is the idea
that there is only so much work to be done, and once machines are doing
it, there will be no demand for any human labor. It's fallacious. At
any given time there are countless tasks that aren't being done at all
because people are busy doing other tasks. As some of the tasks that
people are currently doing become automated, the undone tasks will start
to be done.

Throughout history, automation has always *increased* employment, albeit
not in the tasks that become automated. There is no reason to think it
won't do so still.

[Preston Hamblin]

On 6/10/2017 12:08 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:

> On 06/09/2017 09:45 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 17:45:36 -0600, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>
>>> I was doing some fishing up near the townsite of Toland off the
>>> Burlington Northern railroad near the Moffat Tunnel and noticed their
>>> are no humans controlling the locomotives waiting on the siding while
>>> some train coming the other direction gets the right of way. I guess
>>> some Silicon VAlley startup has figured away to put all railroad
>>> engineers out of work, losing their pensions and livelihood to robots. I
>>> wonder if they're is going to be an uprising as good paying jobs get
>>> eliminated by automation and Amazon.
>>
>> All of this begs the 800 pound question no one at the top wants to
>> address. What happens to the 70% of the economy that is consumer

>> spending when no one has a job. They can spend for a while on credit
>> but that hits a wall pretty fast.
>
> Just look at Zimbabwe and South Africa for a snapshot of the economy you
> describe. Zimbabwe has around 90 percent unemployment, although an
> underground economy thrives.

Zimbabwe's high unemployment rate is not due to automation. It's due to
Marxist mismanagement. Venezuela soon will be right there with it.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

There are no robotic freight trains in the United States. There are a few light-rail passenger lines, especially monorails and subways that have no other traffic intersections, that are autonomous.

As for "losing pensions," not that either.

I think we're getting a look at the way attitudes are shaped among the people who became Trump voters. Facts have nothing to do with it; it's all attitude, conspiracy theories, and empty accusations.

--
Ed Huntress

[The Times They Are a-Changin']

Right. Trumpers see driverless cars parked every day. But when they
see a parked train, they can't think of anything to relate it to. And
what about all those planes parked at airports? Think of all the
pilots put out of work by THAT conspiracy. :)

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Nobody controlling those parked planes, huh? <g>

Freight trains have at least two crew members (a conductor and an engineer); sometimes up to five or six. If they're sitting on a siding with the brakes on, they're probably off having coffee.

--
Ed Huntress

[GVoshY⚛← Ｍｉｇｈｔｙ ╬ Ｗａｎｎａｂｅ →⚛xqwMMf]

The ruling elite is "Jade Helm 15" ready for you ungrateful, rebellious
fools:
<http://www.snopes.com/2015/09/15/jade-helm-over/>

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8>

[Jim Wilkins]

<edhun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:23c550e4-989e-4e13...@googlegroups.com...

Bitter much???

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Not really, but I am observant.

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner Asch]

He hates it when he gets it so badly wrong and gets called on it.

Shrug

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Jim Wilkins]

<edhun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:65a0494f-a42c-44f2...@googlegroups.com...

Where is the "love" those love-Trumps-hate protesters claim?

[edhun...@gmail.com]

You ignorant ass. I got it exactly right.

--
Ed Huntress

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Join them in a protest and maybe you'll find out.

--
Ed Huntress

[rbowman]

On 06/12/2017 02:35 PM, GVoshY⚛← Ｍｉｇｈｔｙ ╬ Ｗａｎｎａｂｅ →⚛xqwMMf
wrote:

> You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8>
>

But resistance is fun. Ask the Democrats with their #Resistance exercise
in overthrowing an elected government.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

And what is it they're doing to "overthrow" the government, Robert?

--
Ed Huntress

[shiggins1]

There's a switch yard in Council Bluffs where the U.P. sets up freight
trains to go either East or West. It's called The Jay as that's the way
the intersection is shaped. They use unmanned engines there all the
time. These engine cross numerous Council Bluffs streets all the time.
When I saw it I couldn't believe they were unmanned so I watched them
(more than one engine) do their work for about a half hour. Sometimes I
saw a switchman stand at the switch, other times I didn't see one, but
I'm sure he was there, as someone had to couple-decouple.

Steve

[Jim Wilkins]

<edhun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:678dedda-fee3-4e2d...@googlegroups.com...

Libs lie? Have they no shame?

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Non sequitur much?

--
Ed Huntress

[edhun...@gmail.com]

I don't know the story there, Steve, but FRA regulations currently require a one-man crew as a minimum, and has a list of exceptions that require a two-man crew. According to the industry, the major carriers all use two-man crews (larger for switching situations). The industry is lobbying for autonomous trains and there were big hearings last year, but nothing has come of it yet.

--
Ed Huntress

[Alan]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:05:53 -0700 (PDT), edhun...@gmail.com wrote:


>> > There are no robotic freight trains in the United States.

My son has been installing ore trucks on the mines in the Pilbara with
remote controls. No drivers on board, just a warm body in Perth,
about 1000 km away controlling them. Probably requires more skill to
control them remotely.

Alan

[goodsoldi...@invalid.junk]

On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:24:17 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Sort of like that Wieber guy when someone posts the list of all the
exciting and heroic things that he claims he has accomplished.
The two tours in Vietnam, the (what was it) 365mph motorcycle, the
expensive lot his decrepit double wide sits on, and on.

The problem seems to be that Ed gets it right most of the tine while
Wieber and his ilk get it wrong most of the time.

And, to make it even worse that snake in the grass Ed frequently posts
references to prove he is right while Wieber, et al, never provide
proof.

It must be some sort of inverse reality when those who prove their
statements are wrong while those that do not prove their statement are
right.
--
Cheers,

Schweik

[Jim Wilkins]

"Winston_Smith" <inv...@butterfly.net> wrote in message
news:p9jujc5e4eoql2u07...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:29:58 -0700, Richard Persing
> <gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:
>>On 6/9/2017 8:45 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>
>>> All of this begs the 800 pound question no one at the top wants to
>>> address. What happens to the 70% of the economy that is consumer
>>> spending when no one has a job.
>>
>>People will have jobs. There will always be some tasks that aren't
>>automated. "Lump of labor" is a fallacy. "Lump of labor" is the
>>idea
>>that there is only so much work to be done, and once machines are
>>doing
>>it, there will be no demand for any human labor. It's fallacious.
>>At
>>any given time there are countless tasks that aren't being done at
>>all
>>because people are busy doing other tasks. As some of the tasks
>>that
>>people are currently doing become automated, the undone tasks will
>>start
>>to be done.
>

> We have plenty of unemployed. I don't see any of those as yet undone
> jobs being staffed.
>
> The bottom line is who pays for it. What's being done is paid for by
> someone that makes a buck out of it. What's not being done is in
> that
> state because no one can make a dime doing those jobs.
>
> How do I sell stock in my great new company if all I can promise
> investors is that their money will be used to tidy the park and
> paint
> some abandoned buildings and then it will be gone?

>
>>Throughout history, automation has always *increased* employment,
>>albeit
>>not in the tasks that become automated. There is no reason to think
>>it
>>won't do so still.
>

> I wish I lived in your world.
>
> "Throughout history" amounts to 50 years at any activity level of
> what
> we call automation today. In reality, automation wasn't all that
> much
> until fairly high performance computers became cheaply available.
> That's 20 years tops. Not a very long track record and the last
> decade
> has certainly seen more jobs destroyed than created.
>

The usual consequence of a large surplus of angry, unemployable youth
has been war. WW1 is a fine example of a war for no better reason,
though many have been proposed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

In 1898 Britain nearly went to war with France over a minor colonial
incident:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashoda_Incident

-jsw

[Richard Persing]

On 6/12/2017 7:36 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:29:58 -0700, Richard Persing
> <gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:

>> On 6/9/2017 8:45 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>
>>> All of this begs the 800 pound question no one at the top wants to
>>> address. What happens to the 70% of the economy that is consumer
>>> spending when no one has a job.
>>
>> People will have jobs. There will always be some tasks that aren't
>> automated. "Lump of labor" is a fallacy. "Lump of labor" is the idea
>> that there is only so much work to be done, and once machines are doing
>> it, there will be no demand for any human labor. It's fallacious. At
>> any given time there are countless tasks that aren't being done at all
>> because people are busy doing other tasks. As some of the tasks that
>> people are currently doing become automated, the undone tasks will start
>> to be done.
>

> We have plenty of unemployed. I don't see any of those as yet undone
> jobs being staffed.

Unemployment, no matter how you want to measure it, is at historic low
levels. Some of those are people between jobs. Chronic unemployment is
due to some defect in the person. It's not that there isn't some task
they might be able to perform - it's that they have bad or no work
ethic, no ability to organize themselves to get to work on time and stay
there, insubordination, etc.

[Richard Persing]

He only "officially" claimed 264mph, but I wouldn't be surprised to see
the speed fluctuate over time.

The story is a lie, of course. No one even believes he has ridden a
motorcycle at 150mph.


> the expensive lot

...which he doesn't own...

> his decrepit double wide sits on, and on.
>
> The problem seems to be that Ed gets it right most of the tine while
> Wieber and his ilk get it wrong most of the time.

Yes, exactly.

>
> And, to make it even worse that snake in the grass Ed frequently posts
> references to prove he is right while Wieber, et al, never provide
> proof.

Occasionally Wieber posts a link to some nonsense fake news site, but
the garbage is easily discredited.

>
> It must be some sort of inverse reality when those who prove their
> statements are wrong while those that do not prove their statement are
> right.

"Alternate" facts.

[Hurricane]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:38:53 -0700, Richard Persing
<gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:

>On 6/13/2017 3:53 AM, goodsoldi...@invalid.junk wrote:

>> Sort of like that Wieber guy when someone posts the list of all the
>> exciting and heroic things that he claims he has accomplished.
>> The two tours in Vietnam, the (what was it) 365mph motorcycle,
>
>He only "officially" claimed 264mph, but I wouldn't be surprised to see
>the speed fluctuate over time.
>
>The story is a lie, of course. No one even believes he has ridden a
>motorcycle at 150mph.

I wouldn't be surprised if Wieber's motorcycle experience is
essentially non-existent. His habit is to make up crazy stories about
whatever thing he wishes he'd accomplished. Even giving the benefit of
the doubt to his story that he used to ride an old BMW twin, it's most
likely he's never been over 100mph. He has, or had, a dust encrusted
junker in his yard. http://tinyurl.com/ycmtqswa Gotta' love that sissy
bar! LOL He says it's an R90/6, but of course, the engine emblems and
side covers are long gone, which is exactly the type of thing Wieber
would do to further inflate his story. So it's very likely an R60/6.
Regardless, somewhere between 40 to 60 hp if it was in good condition
and tune, two things that would never be true of anything Wieber owns.
He won't post a photo of registration because even if the thing was
ever registered in his name, it would show how many decades it's been
since he's ridden. BTW, those old BMWs were highly overrated in their
day. I know, because I had a '77 R100RS, and was very happy when I got
rid of it.

[Richard Persing]

On 6/13/2017 10:37 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:32:08 -0700, Richard Persing

> <gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:
>> On 6/12/2017 7:36 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:29:58 -0700, Richard Persing wrote:
>>>> On 6/9/2017 8:45 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>> All of this begs the 800 pound question no one at the top wants to
>>>>> address. What happens to the 70% of the economy that is consumer
>>>>> spending when no one has a job.
>>>>
>>>> People will have jobs. There will always be some tasks that aren't
>>>> automated. "Lump of labor" is a fallacy. "Lump of labor" is the idea
>>>> that there is only so much work to be done, and once machines are doing
>>>> it, there will be no demand for any human labor. It's fallacious. At
>>>> any given time there are countless tasks that aren't being done at all
>>>> because people are busy doing other tasks. As some of the tasks that
>>>> people are currently doing become automated, the undone tasks will start
>>>> to be done.
>>>
>>> We have plenty of unemployed. I don't see any of those as yet undone
>>> jobs being staffed.
>>
>> Unemployment, no matter how you want to measure it, is at historic low
>> levels.
>

> No matter how you "define" it. The term has been redefined by
> politicians for decades now. Always to hype up the situation and hide
> developing flaws in the system. In terms of one person being able to
> earn enough to support a family in decent style by working 40 hours,
> at a middle class skill level, is a miserable parity of 50 or even 20
> years ago. Two working members, more than 40 hours, often achieved
> only by multiple part time jobs stitched together is the norm and the
> standard of living is dropping by the year.

That is simply false. It is not the norm to have to work multiple jobs,
and the standard of living of a family at the median income has risen,
not fallen.

> All they get for their
> efforts now is a menial hourly wage and zero benefits of any kind.

Bollocks.

> The number of middle class is declining and the number of poor are
> increasing. Half of them would be dead if it weren't for some form of
> welfare support.

The middle class is shrinking because a huge slice of what formerly was
middle class are now rich.

>
>> Some of those are people between jobs.
>

> Most of the population is between full time jobs that pay a living
> wage and offer any benefits.

Bollocks. You're repeating debunked left-wing boilerplate.

>
>> Chronic unemployment is due to some defect in the person.
>

> I get the feeling I'm being trolled but I'll play. If that's the case,
> the entire race is developing that defect. Across ethnic, religious,
> racial, and nationality. Perhaps it's just a symptom of the world
> education system failing to generate graduates worthy of the degree in
> recent decades.

Could be. Nonetheless, unemployment is at historic lows.

>> It's not that there isn't some task
>> they might be able to perform - it's that they have bad or no work
>> ethic, no ability to organize themselves to get to work on time and stay
>> there, insubordination, etc.
>

> "Some task" hardly demands a living wage with benefits, from 40 hours
> work. You have gone from fairly skilled factory work for the majority
> to "some task" as the standard to support your claim automation is not
> killing jobs.

It isn't exactly clear what new jobs are replacing those lost due to
automation.

[rbowman]

On 06/13/2017 01:47 PM, Richard Persing wrote:
>
> The middle class is shrinking because a huge slice of what formerly was
> middle class are now rich.

You are deluded.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Winston_Smith" <inv...@butterfly.net> wrote in message

news:fu60kcdlqnmsp8apf...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 07:09:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
>>"Winston_Smith"wrote
>
>
> Indeed. Hitler achieved a following by ranting about unemployment
> and
> the poverty Germans were suffering under the reparations of WW1.
> Nazi
> translated is National Socialist Workers Party. What ever he really
> believed in terms of nationalism, the party obviously started by
> making an appeal to workers and promised impoverished people the
> support of a socialist system.
>
> Sound familiar ?? Nationalism, socialism, and politically active
> workers are all center stage today. Globally.
>

We might consider what he meant as tribalism more than nationalism, as
the Germanic "Volk" or people were spread across several political
entities from Alsace in eastern France to pockets well into Russia and
up into the Baltic states, which together they called Grossdeutschland
or Greater Germany. They are far from alone in claiming the permanent
right to every place they ever conquered and settled.

The nations of Germany and Italy were assembled in 1871 from what had
originally been a host of small independent principalities that began
as feudal city-states. The outer borders were relics of wars and
didn't always match the population distribution. Notably missing was
Hitler's German-speaking homeland, Austria.

Mussolini created National Socialism on the ancient Spartan model in
response to his fellow Communists' disregard for Italian claims in the
turbulent Balkans as the Austrian empire lost its grip there. The rest
of the Party were fervent followers of Marx/Lenin's one-world
position. Then the rival National Socialists and International
Communists fought each other like Protestants vs Catholics.

At the end of WW2 US troops blocked another war from starting between
the Italians and the Balkan Slavs in the hotly disputed region around
Trieste.
http://www.ce-review.org/01/6/pozun6.html
1923 means Mussolini.

-jsw

[Richard Persing]

On 6/13/2017 2:25 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:47:19 -0700, Richard Persing
> <gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:
>> On 6/13/2017 10:37 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>
>>> All they get for their
>>> efforts now is a menial hourly wage and zero benefits of any kind.
>>
>> Bollocks.
>

> We disagree.

You have no basis for your disagreement. You have no expertise and no
awareness of any income and benefits data. You're just mouthing the
habitual discontentment line.

>>> The number of middle class is declining and the number of poor are
>>> increasing. Half of them would be dead if it weren't for some form of
>>> welfare support.
>>
>> The middle class is shrinking because a huge slice of what formerly was
>> middle class are now rich.
>

> We disagree.

See above.

>>>> Some of those are people between jobs.
>>>
>>> Most of the population is between full time jobs that pay a living
>>> wage and offer any benefits.
>>
>> Bollocks. You're repeating debunked left-wing boilerplate.
>

> Odd, since I'm a fiscal conservative that considers the left wing to
> be a major cause of the problems. The right-wing (that is only so at
> campaign time) are the other causes.

There isn't much difference between Trump right-wingnuts and Occutards
when it comes to evaluating the economy and its future.

>> Could be. Nonetheless, unemployment is at historic lows.
>

> We disagree. It all hinges on the ever changing definition of
> employment/unemployment.

The definitions are not changing. Stop lying. It depends on the
*measure* used, but all of them - U1-U6 - are at historic lows.

>> It isn't exactly clear what new jobs are replacing those lost due to
>> automation.
>

> We agree on one thing. Except I suspect you think they are there and
> undetected as of yet and I suspect the new jobs are few and those are
> very low quality.

The new jobs are coming into existence all the time, and the quality is
suitable to the skills of those who take them.

[goodsoldi...@invalid.junk]

Yes, I did know that but as Wieber sees no fault in embellishing his
posts I thought I'd just follow along in his footsteps :-)

>The story is a lie, of course. No one even believes he has ridden a
>motorcycle at 150mph.
>
>
>> the expensive lot
>
>...which he doesn't own...
>
>> his decrepit double wide sits on, and on.
>>
>> The problem seems to be that Ed gets it right most of the tine while
>> Wieber and his ilk get it wrong most of the time.
>
>Yes, exactly.
>
>
>>
>> And, to make it even worse that snake in the grass Ed frequently posts
>> references to prove he is right while Wieber, et al, never provide
>> proof.
>
>Occasionally Wieber posts a link to some nonsense fake news site, but
>the garbage is easily discredited.
>
>>
>> It must be some sort of inverse reality when those who prove their
>> statements are wrong while those that do not prove their statement are
>> right.
>
>"Alternate" facts.

--
Cheers,

Schweik

[PaxPerPoten]

On 6/13/2017 12:37 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 07:09:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
>> "Winston_Smith"wrote
>

>>> "Throughout history" amounts to 50 years at any activity level of
>>> what
>>> we call automation today. In reality, automation wasn't all that
>>> much
>>> until fairly high performance computers became cheaply available.
>>> That's 20 years tops. Not a very long track record and the last
>>> decade
>>> has certainly seen more jobs destroyed than created.
>>
>> The usual consequence of a large surplus of angry, unemployable youth
>> has been war.
>

> Exactly. And currency wars are the traveling companion of
> unemployment. It starts by one nation devaluing its fiat currency to
> gain some sort of trading advantage over one or more other countries.
> That is almost always a reaction to falling employment. Print more
> money, spread it around, keep the illusion of prosperity.
>
> The target has to respond with their own devaluation to maintain their
> position. On and on and other countries have to do the same sooner or
> later. The classic race to the bottom we have seen in history and are
> seeing now.
>
> More devaluation by the original actor, or as retribution by the
> target, or just a third country trying to get ahead of the game by
> playing the same scam.
>
> On and on until fiat currencies becomes almost worthless. A nice
> little war. When it's over a "new world order" in economics, and the
> world starts over with what appears to be a new money system.
>
> Until some fool tries it again.

>
>> WW1 is a fine example of a war for no better reason,
>> though many have been proposed.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations
>>
>> In 1898 Britain nearly went to war with France over a minor colonial
>> incident:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashoda_Incident
>>
>> -jsw
>

> Indeed. Hitler achieved a following by ranting about unemployment and
> the poverty Germans were suffering under the reparations of WW1. Nazi
> translated is National Socialist Workers Party. What ever he really
> believed in terms of nationalism, the party obviously started by
> making an appeal to workers and promised impoverished people the
> support of a socialist system.

Hey Dumb fuck... Hitler was created by 3 million unemployed
"Germans starving to death and that cocksucker Churchill blocking food
and all other shipments past 1923. As for the reparations and the nasty
Versailles treaty...Hitler was absolutely correct. The French Jews
insisted on the French Army taking over Germany's Industrial Rhine
region creating terrible human suffering in Germany. Churchill and
Degaul started WWI and Germany paid the price. Poland was far from being
innocent.

>
> Sound familiar ?? Nationalism, socialism, and politically active
> workers are all center stage today. Globally.

How can it sound familiar when you fictionalize it to fit your agenda
rather then actual history?

Winston are you in training to replace Rudy as the groups bullshitter?
>


--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

[PaxPerPoten]

On 6/13/2017 12:37 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:32:08 -0700, Richard Persing

> <gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:
>> On 6/12/2017 7:36 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

>>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:29:58 -0700, Richard Persing wrote:
>>>> On 6/9/2017 8:45 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>> All of this begs the 800 pound question no one at the top wants to
>>>>> address. What happens to the 70% of the economy that is consumer
>>>>> spending when no one has a job.
>>>>
>>>> People will have jobs. There will always be some tasks that aren't
>>>> automated. "Lump of labor" is a fallacy. "Lump of labor" is the idea
>>>> that there is only so much work to be done, and once machines are doing
>>>> it, there will be no demand for any human labor. It's fallacious. At
>>>> any given time there are countless tasks that aren't being done at all
>>>> because people are busy doing other tasks. As some of the tasks that
>>>> people are currently doing become automated, the undone tasks will start
>>>> to be done.
>>>
>>> We have plenty of unemployed. I don't see any of those as yet undone
>>> jobs being staffed.
>>
>> Unemployment, no matter how you want to measure it, is at historic low
>> levels.
>

> No matter how you "define" it. The term has been redefined by
> politicians for decades now. Always to hype up the situation and hide
> developing flaws in the system. In terms of one person being able to
> earn enough to support a family in decent style by working 40 hours,
> at a middle class skill level, is a miserable parity of 50 or even 20
> years ago. Two working members, more than 40 hours, often achieved
> only by multiple part time jobs stitched together is the norm and the

> standard of living is dropping by the year. All they get for their
> efforts now is a menial hourly wage and zero benefits of any kind. The

> number of middle class is declining and the number of poor are
> increasing. Half of them would be dead if it weren't for some form of
> welfare support.
>

>> Some of those are people between jobs.
>

> Most of the population is between full time jobs that pay a living
> wage and offer any benefits.
>

>> Chronic unemployment is due to some defect in the person.
>

> I get the feeling I'm being trolled but I'll play.

Yep! Jonathon Ball aka richard Persing is toying with you.

If that's the case,
> the entire race is developing that defect. Across ethnic, religious,
> racial, and nationality. Perhaps it's just a symptom of the world
> education system failing to generate graduates worthy of the degree in
> recent decades.
>

>> It's not that there isn't some task
>> they might be able to perform - it's that they have bad or no work
>> ethic, no ability to organize themselves to get to work on time and stay
>> there, insubordination, etc.
>

> "Some task" hardly demands a living wage with benefits, from 40 hours
> work. You have gone from fairly skilled factory work for the majority
> to "some task" as the standard to support your claim automation is not
> killing jobs.
>
>
>

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

<edhun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:23c550e4-989e-4e13...@googlegroups.com...

- hide quoted text -

> On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 1:25:35 PM UTC-4, Richard Persing wrote:
>> On 6/9/2017 4:45 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>> > I was doing some fishing up near the townsite of Toland off the
>> > Burlington Northern railroad near the Moffat Tunnel and noticed
>> > their
>> > are no humans controlling the locomotives waiting on the siding
>> > while
>> > some train coming the other direction gets the right of way. I
>> > guess
>> > some Silicon VAlley startup has figured away to put all railroad
>> > engineers out of work, losing their pensions and livelihood to
>> > robots. I
>> > wonder if they're is going to be an uprising as good paying jobs
>> > get
>> > eliminated by automation and Amazon.
>>
>> No, there will be no uprising.
>
> There are no robotic freight trains in the United States. There are
> a few light-rail passenger lines, especially monorails and subways
> that have no other traffic intersections, that are autonomous.
>
> As for "losing pensions," not that either.
>
> I think we're getting a look at the way attitudes are shaped among
> the people who became Trump voters. Facts have nothing to do with
> it; it's all attitude, conspiracy theories, and empty accusations.

Loners way out in the hills.

[Jim Wilkins]

"PaxPerPoten" <P...@USA.org> wrote in message
news:ohqg0i$6jj$1...@dont-email.me...

The Treaty of Versailles was no more punishing than the Treaty of
Brest-Litovsk that the Germans inposed on the defeated Russians. Lenin
accepted it because he expected Germany to soon turn Communist and
join him. Russians also starved after the war, causing Lenin to
abandon pure Marxism as unworkable.

The German people weren't told how thoroughly their army had been
defeated in WW1 and instead heard the positives such as their Army
hadn't been forced back onto German territory. To them the Armistice
was a draw and they were incensed to be treated as a defeated nation
afterwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
Thy were entirely ready to believe that the next time would be
different.

The USA rescued Germany from its post-war misery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Plan
Left-leaning academics probably didn't teach you that part of history,
only the ones they could attack the USA for.

In rec.aviation.military we spent several years refuting in extreme
detail the persistent myth that Germany could have won WW2 if only
things had been slightly different. I covered the electronic parts
like the British HF/DF which located U-boats by their radio
transmissions. Once they had been roughly located, our carrier planes
dropped sonobuoys to pinpoint them underwater and homing torpedos to
make the kill. You rarely if ever hear how good our WW2 tech was.

http://www.historynet.com/interview-with-world-war-ii-luftwaffe-general-and-ace-pilot-adolf-galland.htm
".. I believe the 262 [jet] could have been made operational as a
fighter at least a year and a half earlier and built in large enough
numbers so that it could have changed the air war. It would most
certainly not have changed the final outcome of the war, for we had
already lost completely, but it would have probably delayed the end,
since the Normandy invasion on June 6, 1944, would probably not have
taken place, at least not successfully if the 262 had been
operational."

He also said elsewhere that slowing us would only have allowed the Red
Army to advance further.

Galland was in disgrace for speaking the painful truth and busted from
General of the Fighters to leader of an experimental jet squadron. In
reality the 1200+ jet fighters they did build made little difference.
Their primitive jets were effective against bombers but unable and
forbidden to tangle with our fighters, hordes of which pursued them
hoping for their frequent engine failures or a kill when they slowed
to land. Prop fighters were assigned to defend jet airfields because
the jets themselves couldn't.
-jsw

[Richard Persing]

On 6/14/2017 11:00 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> And the quantity ????

With unemployment down to about 4%, the quantity obviously is quite high.

[PaxPerPoten]

Gee... I guess that makes it alright then. Guy down the road shot a
fellow through the head...So it would be OK for me to shoot you through
the head,Eh? Please put some real logical thought into your responsive
posts.

>
> The German people weren't told how thoroughly their army had been
> defeated in WW1

It was an Armistice that the Germans honored and we did not. A travesty
and a criminal act by us!

and instead heard the positives such as their Army
> hadn't been forced back onto German territory. To them the Armistice
> was a draw and they were incensed to be treated as a defeated nation
> afterwards.

Well..Golly gee whiz...I wonder why. We fucked them good and created
WWII...Think about that as consequences. 70 million dead and over 100
million displace because of the arrogance of the French and the vast
corruption of President Wilson...Add that fat half Jew cocksuker
Churchill to the mix. didn't he invent killer concentration camps in
South Africa for Women and Children of the Dutch Boers?

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
> Thy were entirely ready to believe that the next time would be
> different.
>
> The USA rescued Germany from its post-war misery.

That is a lie!! We turned down their appeal for justice when Frrance
seized the Rhineland and Churchill continued the Blockade for 65 years
after the war.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Plan
> Left-leaning academics probably didn't teach you that part of history,
> only the ones they could attack the USA for.

Yopu are fucking moron that buys everything the corrupt Democrats have
fed you.Next you will be sucking them off also.

>
> In rec.aviation.military we spent several years refuting in extreme
> detail the persistent myth that Germany could have won WW2 if only
> things had been slightly different.

Absolutely not... Every country knew that the logistics and production
would win. Apparently you flyboi's inhaled too much Nitreous Oxide.

I covered the electronic parts
> like the British HF/DF which located U-boats by their radio
> transmissions. Once they had been roughly located, our carrier planes
> dropped sonobuoys to pinpoint them underwater and homing torpedos to
> make the kill. You rarely if ever hear how good our WW2 tech was.

What fucking Sonobouys?? 1944 was the first MADF aircraft. The English
invented ASDIC which we call SONAR. Homing Torpedoes?? Bullshit!

>
> http://www.historynet.com/interview-with-world-war-ii-luftwaffe-general-and-ace-pilot-adolf-galland.htm
> ".. I believe the 262 [jet] could have been made operational as a
> fighter at least a year and a half earlier and built in large enough
> numbers so that it could have changed the air war. It would most
> certainly not have changed the final outcome of the war, for we had
> already lost completely, but it would have probably delayed the end,
> since the Normandy invasion on June 6, 1944, would probably not have
> taken place, at least not successfully if the 262 had been
> operational."

We won dumb ass.. It is over and it was a for-drawn conclusion when we
were dragged kicking and screaming into it.

>
> He also said elsewhere that slowing us would only have allowed the Red
> Army to advance further.

Galland was a fighter ACE and had no input to the Wermacht..So he didn't
have a clue. Keep in mind that Germany proper was down to old men and
school boys. Yet the Hitlers Muslim SS of Berlin died to a man making
Russia pay very very dearly for its taking of Berlin.

>
> Galland was in disgrace for speaking the painful truth and busted from
> General of the Fighters to leader of an experimental jet squadron. In
> reality the 1200+ jet fighters they did build made little difference.
> Their primitive jets were effective against bombers

They didn't have the fuel!! Or the pilots...or the ground crews.
but unable and
> forbidden

Bullshit
!

to tangle with our fighters, hordes of which pursued them
> hoping for their frequent engine failures or a kill when they slowed
> to land. Prop fighters were assigned to defend jet airfields because
> the jets themselves couldn't.

they didn't have those either..

I suggest that you learn to read German and stop attaining your
knowledge of bullshit from whatever! Galland was never a disgrace and
neither was the top ACE friend of his. The problem with America today is
idiots like you sucking up all that bullshit for facts and the damned
Country making decisions on that foolishness. We never would have won
any war with that kind of stupidity. Keep in mind Winners write the
History and real Historians dig deep for the real truth. Politicians and
the Media blew the Vietnam war for us...But maybe we should not have
been there in the first place. Kind of like the Middle east. We need
some so-called leaders to educate themselves on Von Clausewitz and Sun
Tzu. Or better yet...Publicly executed Politicians that fail and get us
into these Brouhaha!

[Preston Hamblin]

No, that's bullshit - a lie.

[Jim Wilkins]

"PaxPerPoten" <P...@USA.org> wrote in message

news:oht4a7$c8l$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 6/14/2017 8:36 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> What fucking Sonobouys?? 1944 was the first MADF aircraft. The
> English invented ASDIC which we call SONAR. Homing Torpedoes??
> Bullshit!
>>

Here's one proof of how throroughly wrong you are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_24_mine

-jsw

[rbowman]

On 06/14/2017 11:04 PM, PaxPerPoten wrote:
> Well..Golly gee whiz...I wonder why. We fucked them good and created
> WWII...Think about that as consequences. 70 million dead and over 100
> million displace because of the arrogance of the French and the vast
> corruption of President Wilson...Add that fat half Jew cocksuker
> Churchill to the mix. didn't he invent killer concentration camps in
> South Africa for Women and Children of the Dutch Boers?

And don't forget his brilliance at Gallipoli... One of the few things
Obama did right was to send his bust back to where it belongs. He and
Roosevelt were traitors of a feather.

[Richard Persing]

On 6/15/2017 12:29 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 11:54:11 -0700, Richard Persing wrote:
>
>> With unemployment down to about 4%, the quantity obviously is quite high.
>

> That's a lie.

It's not.

"Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 138,000 in May, and the
unemployment rate was little changed at 4.3 percent, the U.S. Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today [June 2, 2017]."

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm


U6 is falling steadily as well:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE


Just admit you're wrong and don't have any clue what you're bullshitting
about.

[Fletch]

On 6/15/2017 9:54 AM, Richard Persing wrote:
> Just admit you're wrong

PARK THAT JETTA!!!

PICK THOSE ORANGES!!!

SELL THOSE SOLAR PANELS!!!


https://www.arivify.com/property/search/Lj5tUOUy7

Owner Name Jonathan Ball
Address 5327 Shepard Ave
City Sacramento
State CA
Zip Code 95819
Land Use Resid. Single Family
Land Size 0.168 acres
Appraised Value $420130
Assessed Value $420130
Legal Description Sac:00501110170000

http://reach150.com/solarcity-northern-california/review/62015/jonathan-ball

Jonathan Ball
Field Energy Consultant SolarCity Northern California
Sacramento, CA

Recommendations

Be the first to leave a recommendation for Jonathan Ball.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-ball-271869132

[Richard Persing]

On 6/15/2017 9:01 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017, Richard Persing wrote:
>> On 6/15/2017 12:29 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:

>>> On Wed, 14 Jun 2017, Richard Persing aka Jonathan the troll wrote:
>
>>>> With unemployment down to about 4%, the quantity obviously is quite high.
>>>
>>> That's a lie.
>>
>> It's not.
>>
>> "Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 138,000 in May, and the
>> unemployment rate was little changed at 4.3 percent, the U.S. Bureau of
>> Labor Statistics reported today [June 2, 2017]."
>>
>> https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
>>
>>
>> U6 is falling steadily as well:
>>
>> https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
>>
>>
>> Just admit you're wrong and don't have any clue what you're bullshitting
>> about.
>

> That too is a lie.

No, it isn't. You really don't have any clue what you're bullshitting
about. You have an ignorant understanding - that is, no real
understanding - of the effect of innovation and technological progress
on the economy. You have no understanding of economics at all.

[rbowman]

On 06/15/2017 10:25 AM, Richard Persing wrote:
> No, it isn't. You really don't have any clue what you're bullshitting
> about. You have an ignorant understanding - that is, no real
> understanding - of the effect of innovation and technological progress
> on the economy. You have no understanding of economics at all.

You mean those grossly overpriced tech stocks that are on the down
escalator?

[Richard Persing]

<chuckle> You can't name any. For any you try, I'll name 10 in the
other direction.

[PaxPerPoten]

On 6/15/2017 5:04 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "PaxPerPoten" <P...@USA.org> wrote in message
> news:oht4a7$c8l$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 6/14/2017 8:36 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>

>> What fucking Sonobouys?? 1944 was the first MAD aircraft. The

>> English invented ASDIC which we call SONAR. Homing Torpedoes??
>> Bullshit!
>>>
>
> Here's one proof of how throroughly wrong you are:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_24_mine

Wikipedia is open source for anyone that wants to make a statement or
change one. I doubt seriously that such a weapon was used in anything
other then research. Our resources were heavily targeted on Methods of
finding Submarines. The chief weapons were K-Guns and Depth Charges.
Catalina Aircraft used depth Charges that sometimes blew up on striking
the water. To my knowledge..The first productive Homing Torpedo was
called a Weapon Able or MK-108. It was rocket launched. MK 48 Torpedoes
came toward the wars end if I remember correctly. But Sonar and MAD gear
were priority installs as was the MK-37 and MK-56 Radar/Computer fire
control for the Naval guns. A number of surfaced subs fell victim to
these type of weaponry. If you are really into this...why don't you
peruse the Archives at the Naval War College?

[Jim Wilkins]

"PaxPerPoten" <P...@USA.org> wrote in message

news:ohvuoq$gs1$1...@dont-email.me...

So you know more than Wiki, which is essentially a consensus of the
rest of us.

The Mark 24 "Fido" acoustic homing torpedo.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.php
"340 [Fido] torpedoes [were] dropped in 264 attacks of which 204 were
against submarines. In 142 attacks US aircraft sank 31 submarines and
damaged 15; in 62 attacks against submarines other Allies, mainly
British, sank six and damaged three...."
--"US Navy Torpedoes" by Frederick J. Milford:

The small warhead was intended to force the target U-boot to surface
so we might capture its Enigma coding machine and Kurier burst
transmitter.
https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=60019
That was written in 2004, before I demonstrated that British HF/DF
could easily pinpoint the very first 1 milliSecond pulse. We also knew
about spread spectrum and and how to compensate for shifting transmit
frequencies. Kurier defeated only -German- radio direction finding. We
concealed our secret technological advantages by sending a search
plane to see and be seen by the target before attacking it.

WW2 Sonobuoys:
http://uboat.net/allies/technical/sonobuoys.htm
"On March 7 1942 blimp K-5 tested this new device on submarine S-20.
It was found that detection was possible up to 3 NM."

The Dawes plan:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/weimarsurviverev1.shtml
"Under his [Dawes'] advice, the German Reichsbank was reformed and the
old money was called in and burned. This ended the hyperinflation.
Dawes also arranged the Dawes Plan with Stresemann, which gave Germany
longer to pay reparations. Most importantly, Dawes agreed to America
lending Germany 800 million gold marks, which kick-started the German
economy."

But don't let reality challenge your arrogance.

-jsw

[rbowman]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-15/asian-shares-to-gain-as-dollar-rebounds-after-fed-markets-wrap

"U.S. stocks fluctuated near two-week lows, while the dollar weakened as
housing data added to signs the American economy’s growth rate may be
slower than forecast. Oil rose with metals."

Sounds just peachy.

[PaxPerPoten]

Heh! Heh!...Who is we.. Got a mouse in your pocket? Ronald Reagan had it
right..Trust but verify... You did not check the archives of the Navy!

>
> The Mark 24 "Fido" acoustic homing torpedo.
> http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.php
> "340 [Fido] torpedoes [were] dropped in 264 attacks of which 204 were
> against submarines. In 142 attacks US aircraft sank 31 submarines and
> damaged 15; in 62 attacks against submarines other Allies, mainly
> British, sank six and damaged three...."
> --"US Navy Torpedoes" by Frederick J. Milford:

I again call bullshit... How come none of that appeared after the war
when all naval records of the Axis were opened. Aircraft had a very poor
record of sinking any submarine.

>
> The small warhead was intended to force the target U-boot to surface
> so we might capture its Enigma coding machine and Kurier burst

Well one of Fletcher class destroyers did get enigma and prized a
Submarine, with a Mexican Boiler-tender winning a Medal of Honor for
disabling the pig mines aboard the abandoned submarine.

> transmitter.
> https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=60019
> That was written in 2004, before I demonstrated that British HF/DF
> could easily pinpoint the very first 1 milliSecond pulse. We also knew
> about spread spectrum and and how to compensate for shifting transmit
> frequencies. Kurier defeated only -German- radio direction finding. We
> concealed our secret technological advantages by sending a search
> plane to see and be seen by the target before attacking it.
>
> WW2 Sonobuoys:
> http://uboat.net/allies/technical/sonobuoys.htm
> "On March 7 1942 blimp K-5 tested this new device on submarine S-20.
> It was found that detection was possible up to 3 NM."
>
> The Dawes plan:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/weimarsurviverev1.shtml
> "Under his [Dawes'] advice, the German Reichsbank was reformed and the
> old money was called in and burned. This ended the hyperinflation.
> Dawes also arranged the Dawes Plan with Stresemann, which gave Germany
> longer to pay reparations. Most importantly, Dawes agreed to America
> lending Germany 800 million gold marks, which kick-started the German
> economy."
>
> But don't let reality challenge your arrogance.

Name me one ship that was sunk by these weapons!

The Dawes plan was a failure.. Or at least that is what the University
of Berlin'a Econ9omics folks say.

[Jim Wilkins]

"PaxPerPoten" <P...@USA.org> wrote in message

news:oi2fs5$a11$1...@dont-email.me...

You just deny the facts. It isn't my job to puncture the armored
bubble you live in.
-jsw

[Gunner Asch]

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:04:33 -0500, PaxPerPoten <P...@USA.org> wrote:

>
>Well..Golly gee whiz...I wonder why. We fucked them good and created
>WWII...Think about that as consequences. 70 million dead and over 100
>million displace because of the arrogance of the French and the vast
>corruption of President Wilson...Add that fat half Jew cocksuker
>Churchill to the mix.

Wilson and America were totally against the terms of surrender.
America was shocked and horrified at how strict it was as they knew it
would cause serious problems down the road.

https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/march-19-1920-senate-rejects-treaty-of-versailles-for-second-and-final-time/?_r=0

etc etc etc


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Jim Wilkins]

"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aokakch7vg99r0kvq...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:04:33 -0500, PaxPerPoten <P...@USA.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>Well..Golly gee whiz...I wonder why. We fucked them good and created
>>WWII...Think about that as consequences. 70 million dead and over
>>100
>>million displace because of the arrogance of the French and the vast
>>corruption of President Wilson...Add that fat half Jew cocksuker
>>Churchill to the mix.
>
> Wilson and America were totally against the terms of surrender.
> America was shocked and horrified at how strict it was as they knew
> it
> would cause serious problems down the road.
>
> https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/march-19-1920-senate-rejects-treaty-of-versailles-for-second-and-final-time/?_r=0
>
> etc etc etc

Wilson's poor health, which was concealed from the public, greatly
hindered his efforts toward a fairer solution.
http://ahsl.arizona.edu/about/exhibits/presidents/wilson

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 17:50:18 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
wrote:

http://www.mybudget360.com/us-household-income-2013-median-household-income-declines-since-recession/

[edhun...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 12:47:51 PM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 17:50:18 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 06/13/2017 01:47 PM, Richard Persing wrote:
> >>
> >> The middle class is shrinking because a huge slice of what formerly was
> >> middle class are now rich.
> >
> >You are deluded.
>
>
> http://www.mybudget360.com/us-household-income-2013-median-household-income-declines-since-recession/
>

Note that there's no source quoted for what they claim is a "new report that came out." That's because it's a crock of shit.

Here are the real numbers, which are up, not down since the beginning of the recession:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

--
Ed Huntress

[Richard Persing]

Correct.

Of course, that still doesn't say anything about the size of the middle
class in absolute numbers. Suppose for simplicity that there are 100
million households (it's actually about 125 million), and that it
remains constant (remember: simplicity). Suppose there are 60 million
that are middle class, with 35 million below middle class and 5 million
above it. Now suppose that at the next census, 8 million formerly
middle class families have dropped below the bottom income level for
being middle class, while another 12 million have moved *above* the
middle class and are now classified as upper income. The number of
middle class households has now fallen by 20 million, or 1/3, but 50%
more of the families that left the middle class are better off.

I'm not saying it happened anywhere nearly that dramatically, but that
is essentially what's happened. From the Wall Street Journal cited in
Forbes:



The latest piece of evidence comes from economist Stephen Rose of
the Urban Institute, who finds in new research that the upper middle
class in the U.S. is larger and richer than it’s ever been. He finds
the upper middle class has expanded from about 12% of the population
in 1979 to a new record of nearly 30% as of 2014.

'Any discussion of inequality that is limited to the 1% misses a lot
of the picture because it ignores the large inequality between the
growing upper middle class and the middle and lower middle classes,'
said Mr. Rose. The Urban Institute is a nonpartisan policy research
group.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/06/21/sure-the-middle-class-is-shrinking-30-of-americans-are-too-rich-to-be-middle-class-now/#12cbf7be21c8

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Yeah, my son was a research analyst for them before he worked for McKinsey & Co. They're very straight shooters.

>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/06/21/sure-the-middle-class-is-shrinking-30-of-americans-are-too-rich-to-be-middle-class-now/#12cbf7be21c8

I didn't chase that one down, but I have run the numbers on this before and it's actually pretty simple to do. You get the quintile breakdowns from IRS and then compare the percentages of increase and decrease in adjacent quintiles. It wasn't easy to find actual numbers of people represented by the quintiles, but it was available, and I got it eight or ten years ago.

--
Ed Huntress

[Richard Persing]

On 6/17/2017 11:51 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:04:33 -0500, PaxPerPoten wrote:
>> On 6/14/2017 8:36 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>>> The USA rescued Germany from its post-war misery.
>

> Plus, not yet president Hoover almost single handedly managed to keep
> Belgium from starving. He gets nearly zero credit today for that feat.

He got complete credit for it at the time and up until his death. He
doesn't get mentioned for it today because that's ancient history to
Americans.

[Richard Persing]

As I said, it's not as dramatic as my hypothetical case, but it /has/
happened, and in appreciable numbers.

[Gunner Asch]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 10:09:27 -0700, Hurricane <h...@bd.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:38:53 -0700, Richard Persing
><gro...@fag.gummer.con> wrote:
>
>>On 6/13/2017 3:53 AM, goodsoldi...@invalid.junk wrote:
>
>>> Sort of like that Wieber guy when someone posts the list of all the
>>> exciting and heroic things that he claims he has accomplished.
>>> The two tours in Vietnam, the (what was it) 365mph motorcycle,
>>
>>He only "officially" claimed 264mph, but I wouldn't be surprised to see
>>the speed fluctuate over time.
>>
>>The story is a lie, of course. No one even believes he has ridden a
>>motorcycle at 150mph.
>
>I wouldn't be surprised if Wieber's motorcycle experience is
>essentially non-existent. His habit is to make up crazy stories about
>whatever thing he wishes he'd accomplished. Even giving the benefit of
>the doubt to his story that he used to ride an old BMW twin, it's most
>likely he's never been over 100mph. He has, or had, a dust encrusted
>junker in his yard. http://tinyurl.com/ycmtqswa Gotta' love that sissy
>bar! LOL He says it's an R90/6, but of course, the engine emblems and
>side covers are long gone, which is exactly the type of thing Wieber
>would do to further inflate his story. So it's very likely an R60/6.
>Regardless, somewhere between 40 to 60 hp if it was in good condition
>and tune, two things that would never be true of anything Wieber owns.
>He won't post a photo of registration because even if the thing was
>ever registered in his name, it would show how many decades it's been
>since he's ridden. BTW, those old BMWs were highly overrated in their
>day. I know, because I had a '77 R100RS, and was very happy when I got
>rid of it.

This the best you can do...trying to say a R90/6 is a R60/6?

https://goo.gl/photos/zSL5ietBG8r75rGE9

https://goo.gl/photos/z4mqvUcspm5TbUP67

https://goo.gl/photos/F3g2GGqYuDYsAKBx7


Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh!!

[Frank Tomaszewski]

None of them operating - at least not if you still own them.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

Nothing in that phot0 tells us it's an R90. The R60 looks the same -- I rode one from Lausanne to Dusseldorf, and it looks like the same bike.

--
Ed Huntress

[Hurricane]

On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 13:59:16 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

No. I said that you don't ride now, at best never rode much... decades
ago, and quite possibly have never ridden at all. I said you have some
old junk but you won't show the registration because at best, it would
show how long it's been since you've ridden, and at worst would show
that the bikes have never been registered in your name. And I was
right, you continue to blubber when a photo of the registrations would
prove your point... if only you had one. You're a wannabe biker,
nothing more. And you're never going to be a biker because that would
take some effort that you can't make because you're too busy telling
stupid lies.

[Gunner Asch]

Correct indeed.

[Gunner Asch]

Odd that he deleted the photos and now changed his story.

Who ever claimed Im "a biker"? Certainly wasnt me. Ive ridden a
shitton of miles over the years on bikes..having gotten my first one
somewhere around the age of 9 or so. But a "biker"? I did ride under
colors for a few months back in the early 70s....but realized only
morons would ride with people who planned and performed bank robberies
for drug and gas cash. Ive mentioned that years ago. Maybe you can
pull it up on google? Try "Renegades" for a search term.

Now was there some question about registration and last time since
riding asked? Ive not been on any of my bikes for at least since my
stroke. Back in 2009. And? Im not seeing what you are trying to
say. But then..thats pretty normal with you..lots of fluff everytime
you lie and get caught at it...shrug

Now Im going to be bagging up my 3 legged pup, "Tripod"..... he just
stopped breathing while sleeping in my lap. He wasnt doing well when
I got home last night...no idea what killed him, but Ive already got
$350 in him and am not going to sink any more money into a dead puppy.

I took 3 of my adult dogs to get their nuts cut this morning..and they
are doing just fine. 3 more to go and no more unneutered, unchipped
dogs in the kennel. Yippee!!

Sigh

[PaxPerPoten]

The SOB should have been suffering for his misdeeds. Germany tried to
negotiate a draw-down with everyone going home and retaining all the
land they had started with. But England and France wanted to suck
America into the fray. Idiot Wilson decided that if American blood was
all over those battlefields ..the world would let him institute the
League of Nations...Which of Course the Democrats in America would be
top advisors. In spite of promising not to get us into a war...He did
just precisely that.

[PaxPerPoten]

On 6/17/2017 10:30 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

> Not when Democrats want to blame him for the depression and tell us
> how FDR saved our asses.

Actually Hoover raised taxes just before the election..Kiss of death. It
gave the incoming president money to implement the already planned
programs that Roosevelt was credited with. Roosevelt's real donation to
easing the Great Depression was to encourage selling war goods to
France, Poland and England. In spite of the fact we were neutral and do
so was internationally illegal. It was good for big business, but did a
little for the workers who were paid a pittance of the gross. His next
act was to sneakily get us into a war that was promised not to. That
employed millions and ran the National debt into the stratosphere. We
still haven't paid that down! Please note that every war for the last
hundred years has been promoted by War Profiteering Democrats. Where do
y9u think the Klintons got so rich from? LBJ estate is still war
profiteering while the tax payer still pays to maintain the airstrip and
Security of the estates ranch.

[Hurricane]

On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 18:20:32 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

LOL

>Who ever claimed Im "a biker"?

Biker, as in, person who rides motorcycles. Which you are not.

> Certainly wasnt me.

Not long ago your were pretending you might buy some $600 jeans for
riding. A while back you were talking about your preferred fuel. All
Walter Mitty BS.

> Ive ridden a
>shitton of miles over the years on bikes..having gotten my first one
>somewhere around the age of 9 or so.

Nope. You're a wannabe, dreaming of the day you can afford to fix up
and license some old junk you're hoarding. No more chance of that than
there is of you catching up on your rent, or avoiding full dole. But
in the meantime you pretend, same as with everything else.

> I did ride under colors for a few months back in the early 70s.

No, that's just another of your ridiculous stories.

>Now was there some question about registration and last time since
>riding asked? Ive not been on any of my bikes for at least since my
>stroke. Back in 2009.

No, you haven't ridden for at least decades, and probably never. Post
that 2009 registration if you want to prove anything different. You
can't. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any registrations,
period. Missing registrations are the one of the things that make
bikes nearly worthless, and it's your habit to hoard nearly worthless
stuff.

>Now Im going to be bagging up my 3 legged pup, "Tripod"..... he just
>stopped breathing while sleeping in my lap.

No, you probably discovered him dead after a few days, same as when it
took you days to discover his mangled leg.

>no idea what killed him,

1. Your fucked up brain
2. Your dog hoarding
3. Your neglect, cunt.

[Hurricane]

I wish you lived close enough to take my bike for a spin. Almost 4
times the horsepower and light years better than the old beemers in
almost every respect. I see that the simpler boxers are finding new
life in hipster land, as retro "cafe racers." This guy's youtube
channel https://www.youtube.com/user/10341037 has many compilations of
examples. Stripped down, no battery, often no fenders, block tread
tires, etc. Some are more art than practical. But the class does
provide low cost riding for those who live where they can get
insurance for such things. I talked to a friend yesterday who owns a
vintage ('81 IIRC) bike. If he lets his insurance lapse, it can't be
renewed. He says that in his area some get around the problem with
vintage registration, which technically only allows limited use.

[edhun...@gmail.com]

It probably would scare the piss out of me. <g> My fastest bike was a 1967 Triumph TR6 -- the single-carb version of the Bonneville. It almost coughed and died going over Loveland Pass on old Rt. 6 (12,000 ft.), but that was before I-70 was completed and it was the only way to go. I thought I was going to have to push it over the top and that ain't easy at 12,000 ft.

> I see that the simpler boxers are finding new
> life in hipster land, as retro "cafe racers." This guy's youtube
> channel https://www.youtube.com/user/10341037 has many compilations of
> examples. Stripped down, no battery, often no fenders, block tread
> tires, etc. Some are more art than practical. But the class does
> provide low cost riding for those who live where they can get
> insurance for such things. I talked to a friend yesterday who owns a
> vintage ('81 IIRC) bike. If he lets his insurance lapse, it can't be
> renewed. He says that in his area some get around the problem with
> vintage registration, which technically only allows limited use.

Interesting. That explains a couple of things. In Paris, in the late '70s, a "cafe racer" was any smallish or medium pocket rocket with a lot of fairing.

I had never heard the term before, but after watching those videos, now I understand some bikes of the period. In Greenwich Village and East Village in the late '60s there were a few bikes with those long tanks and short saddles, usually Harley-engined but with a few Triumphs and BSAs, and with hard tails. From what I could tell, these were not original hard-tail Harley frames, but were welded into hard tails.

I saw a couple of the same bikes in Provincetown, Cape Cod, a few years later. I never knew what they were about and I never heard them called "cafe racers," but they looked a lot like the Brit examples, except with the hard-tail frames.

If I had a classic bike I'd want John Surtees's MV Augusta from the 1956 Isle of Man TT:

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-john-surtees-on-an-mv-agusta-waterworks-corner-isle-of-man-senior-60076747.html

Or maybe a Norton Manx of the same period:

http://www.racingvincent.co.uk/25_Bike_Gallery_5.5/Gallery_270812/Photos_800/DOHC%20Manx%201.jpg

I'll bet that those bikes, particularly the Norton, were the styling cues for the cafe racers.

--
Ed Huntress

[edhun...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 10:41:46 AM UTC-4, Hurricane wrote:

BTW, are you getting my emails?

--
Ed Huntress

[Hurricane]

Yeah, but I didn't see them until I looked just now. Got company
coming, will respond later.