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David Lesher

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Sep 17, 2017, 8:51:23 PM9/17/17
to
I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.

It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.

If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
would be ideal.

This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
battery recharging.

Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
speak up.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Jim Wilkins

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Sep 17, 2017, 9:25:33 PM9/17/17
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"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:opn5a9$d47$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
> By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>
> It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
> It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>
> If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
> would be ideal.
>
> This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
> battery recharging.
>
> Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
> speak up.

Like a Honda EU1000i with a propane or tri-fuel conversion kit?


Larry Jaques

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Sep 17, 2017, 9:47:01 PM9/17/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
>By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>
>It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
>It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>
>If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
>would be ideal.
>
>This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
>battery recharging.

Will this work? How many horsies does that genset take?
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-79cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-69733.html
It appears to be a 4-stroke with a 5/8" shaft.
11-3/4 x 12-1/4 x 11-3/4 fits your size requirement.
Ball bearing crank, cast sleeve, seems un-junk to me, but I've never
even seen one.

Do you already have a nice solar panel for your yacht?


>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
>speak up.

Would be nice, huh? I'd build a motorcycle with one since I don't have
a boat. (Shut up, Gunner. I don't need one. ;)

A Zero DS or Hayes Kaw Diesel would make me happy.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/specs.php
http://www.trucktrend.com/news/0604dp-100-mpg-diesel-motorcycle/
Solar fuels the former, stored diesel the latter.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

John B.

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Sep 17, 2017, 10:01:02 PM9/17/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
>By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>
>It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
>It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>
>If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
>would be ideal.
>
>This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
>battery recharging.
>
>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
>speak up.


If you meant 12" x 12" x 12" then possible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_z4dzVBZ1g
or
one of the small Honda generators which have a good reputation but
aren't exactly cheap. There is also a "Robin" look alike that is
cheaper but I don't know the quality.

Depending on the size of the boat you might look into solar panels. I
used them on a 40 ft. boat for a number of years and while they didn't
supply all the power I used they did prolong the time between battery
charges :-)

As an aside, all of the really small generators I've seen had a "hot
exhaust" and shouldn't be used in closed quarters.
--
Cheers,

John B.

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 17, 2017, 10:07:47 PM9/17/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
>By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>
>It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
>It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>
>If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
>would be ideal.
>
>This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
>battery recharging.
>
>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
>speak up.
Briggs and Stratton 800 or 900 series engines.
Northern Tool carries them. 8 ft lb torque, so 5.4HP at 3600 RPM.

$260 for the 800 series, $350 for the 900 series 6 HP (9 ft lb at
3600)
The Honda GX200 is another option - $429 at Tractor Supply.

Tose are 200-205cce engines - or 12 cu inches, which I believe was
your specification.

The GX160 is the 4HP honda 163cc. The Briggs 550 series is 127cc
4hp.

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 17, 2017, 10:33:13 PM9/17/17
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:00:58 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The ROBIN motor is made by Subaru and sold as a Wisconsin,

David Billington

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Sep 18, 2017, 4:28:14 AM9/18/17
to
On 18/09/17 01:51, David Lesher wrote:
> I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
> By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>
> It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
> It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>
> If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
> would be ideal.
>
> This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
> battery recharging.
>
> Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
> speak up.
>
Yanmar do the L40 which is a 4hp (12cuin) diesel and I have one on a
mixer, works well. I think the Chinese do a knock off of them.

Gunner Asch

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Sep 18, 2017, 7:15:43 AM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
>By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>
>It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
>It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>
>If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
>would be ideal.
>
>This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
>battery recharging.
>
>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
>speak up.

what is 12"^3 mean?

The HF Preditor gensets arent half bad.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html

buy the extended warranty


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Gunner Asch

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Sep 18, 2017, 7:28:40 AM9/18/17
to
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 18:46:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
><wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
>>By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>>
>>It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
>>It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>>
>>If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
>>would be ideal.
>>
>>This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
>>battery recharging.
>
>Will this work? How many horsies does that genset take?
>https://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-79cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-69733.html
>It appears to be a 4-stroke with a 5/8" shaft.
>11-3/4 x 12-1/4 x 11-3/4 fits your size requirement.
>Ball bearing crank, cast sleeve, seems un-junk to me, but I've never
>even seen one.
>
>Do you already have a nice solar panel for your yacht?
>
>
>>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
>>speak up.
>
>Would be nice, huh? I'd build a motorcycle with one since I don't have
>a boat. (Shut up, Gunner. I don't need one. ;)

(VBG!!!)
>
>A Zero DS or Hayes Kaw Diesel would make me happy.
>http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/specs.php
>http://www.trucktrend.com/news/0604dp-100-mpg-diesel-motorcycle/
>Solar fuels the former, stored diesel the latter.

Putting a bank of 900 ah and 125-300 watts of solar cells above the
stern railing...easy peasy

Gunner Asch

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Sep 18, 2017, 7:46:44 AM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:28:10 +0100, David Billington <d...@invalid.com>
wrote:
Propane appliences in sailboats can be a real problem. Propane is
heavier than air and if it leaks..it settles into the bilge like an
explosive waiting for a spark.

There are fairly regular reports of boats exploding for this reason.
Diesel is much..much better

Jim Wilkins

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Sep 18, 2017, 7:55:30 AM9/18/17
to

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:lq9urchm8b6tcifd5...@4ax.com...
Parts to adapt and modify Honda GX160, GX200 and Harbor Freight
Predator 212 engines are readily available:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/clone-engine

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24215

My Predator 212 engine has split two cords of firewood and cut two oak
beams on my sawmill satisfactorily. It's easier to start and vibrates
less than a Tecumseh OHH55. My only complaint is that I have to remove
the gas tank and unscrew its outlet fitting to fully drain the
gasoline before long term storage.

There are lightweight sub-kilowatt generators out there, I have an old
Kohler 500 Watt PowerPlay (loud 2-stroke) and Honda made an EM600.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-EM600-Generator-With-Manual-/391889309504

I don't know how good the current production models are.
http://www.powerhouse-products.com/powerhouse_product/500wi/

500 Watts is enough to charge a 12V battery at over 30 Amps, if you
can find a suitable Variac and transformer to build the charger.

-jsw


Larry Jaques

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Sep 18, 2017, 9:20:26 AM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 04:28:39 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 18:46:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
>><wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm seeking a small engine that can drive a generator.
>>>By small, I mean in the 12"^3 range.
>>>
>>>It must be 4 cycle as it will need to run on propane.
>>>It will drive a 13.8V generator, or 120VAC, say 800 watts.
>>>
>>>If H-F Item#63025 was 4 cycle, (and it was un-junk....) that
>>>would be ideal.
>>>
>>>This to fit aboard a sailboat for stationary power/starter
>>>battery recharging.
>>
>>Will this work? How many horsies does that genset take?
>>https://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-79cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-69733.html
>>It appears to be a 4-stroke with a 5/8" shaft.
>>11-3/4 x 12-1/4 x 11-3/4 fits your size requirement.
>>Ball bearing crank, cast sleeve, seems un-junk to me, but I've never
>>even seen one.
>>
>>Do you already have a nice solar panel for your yacht?
>>
>>
>>>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!],
>>>speak up.
>>
>>Would be nice, huh? I'd build a motorcycle with one since I don't have
>>a boat. (Shut up, Gunner. I don't need one. ;)
>
>(VBG!!!)

I thought you might see that. <g>


>>A Zero DS or Hayes Kaw Diesel would make me happy.
>>http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/specs.php
>>http://www.trucktrend.com/news/0604dp-100-mpg-diesel-motorcycle/
>>Solar fuels the former, stored diesel the latter.
>
>Putting a bank of 900 ah and 125-300 watts of solar cells above the
>stern railing...easy peasy

He said "charge the battery", not "battery bank". I was thinking a
simple 80w for LED lights, radio, and laptop. One battery ought to
handle that. BUT, if he had a larger boat, solar panels could be
utilized to replace the sail while the batteries replaced a
significant portion of the ballast. VBG.

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 18, 2017, 10:50:30 AM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:28:10 +0100, David Billington <d...@invalid.com>
wrote:

Noisy buggers though!!! we were going to put one on a generator on
little brothers semi to run heat and air etc on "overnights" instead
of leaning the main engine run, but they were WAY too noisy and way
too rough running to sleep through - - -

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 18, 2017, 10:51:14 AM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 04:15:42 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -

Gunner Asch

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Sep 18, 2017, 12:53:19 PM9/18/17
to
He said 800 watts load as well. (2) Deep cycle batteries will give him
far more than 800 watts if he is on a 145 watt solar charging system.

Jim Wilkins

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Sep 18, 2017, 1:28:38 PM9/18/17
to
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2bavrclvq7jvtakhn...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>
> what is 12"^3 mean?

12 cubic inches. ^ signifies a superscript exponent.

>
> The HF Preditor gensets arent half bad.
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html
>
> buy the extended warranty

Do you have one?

I bought the previous 2500W model #61169 and like it so far after
about 11 hours of running and testing it every 3 months. The output
voltage and frequency are very stable up to its 19A steady-state
current limit.

If mine fails under warranty HF will replace it with the current
#62523 model. I could have traded when the carb pilot jet clogged but
that was an easy fix. Pay attention to how the stepper motor linkage
connects to the throttle before you take one apart.
-jsw


Jim Wilkins

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Sep 18, 2017, 1:31:05 PM9/18/17
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:opoc7g$3us$1...@dont-email.me...
> ...
> There are lightweight sub-kilowatt generators out there, ...
> ...
> I don't know how good the current production models are.
> http://www.powerhouse-products.com/powerhouse_product/500wi/

Another one:
https://www.amazon.com/Porta-Source-Portable-Invertor-Generator/dp/B00P2FOX4C/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

> -jsw


Robert Roland

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Sep 18, 2017, 4:36:10 PM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:51:21 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Of course, if instead you have a Diesel in that size [Ha!]

Lombardini used to make small diesels. Their site still exists, but
the engines I found have a Kohler tag on them. They still seem to fit
your spec, though.
--
RoRo

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 18, 2017, 4:42:56 PM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:53:20 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
That depends on how many watt hours he needs. with 8 hours od
sunlight and a tracking panel sysyem he will get a MAXIMUM of 1160
watt hours of power from the panels - so 1150 watt hours out of the
battery if he is very lucky. That is 800 watts for about an hour and
15 minutes. Yes, he can get more out of the battery, but the battery
will not recover it's charge unless charged with more than the 145
watt panel, or charged for a few days with no load.

David Lesher

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Sep 18, 2017, 5:30:14 PM9/18/17
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> writes:


>He said "charge the battery", not "battery bank". I was thinking a
>simple 80w for LED lights, radio, and laptop. One battery ought to
>handle that. BUT, if he had a larger boat, solar panels could be
>utilized to replace the sail while the batteries replaced a
>significant portion of the ballast. VBG.


It has solar panels now, but with not enough sun, the battery
soon succumbed. Given you can't push-start a sailboat, this
caused a major issue. Especially since we had no car available.

David Lesher

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Sep 18, 2017, 5:32:17 PM9/18/17
to
cl...@snyder.on.ca writes:

>>what is 12"^3 mean?


> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -

An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....

Jim Wilkins

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Sep 18, 2017, 6:41:51 PM9/18/17
to
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:pmb0sc5im3kh28kf3...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:53:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
> <gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 06:20:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>............
>>>He said "charge the battery", not "battery bank". I was thinking a
>>>simple 80w for LED lights, radio, and laptop. One battery ought to
>>>handle that. BUT, if he had a larger boat, solar panels could be
>>>utilized to replace the sail while the batteries replaced a
>>>significant portion of the ballast. VBG.
>>
>>
>>He said 800 watts load as well. (2) Deep cycle batteries will give
>>him
>>far more than 800 watts if he is on a 145 watt solar charging
>>system.
>>
>>
> That depends on how many watt hours he needs. with 8 hours od
> sunlight and a tracking panel sysyem he will get a MAXIMUM of 1160
> watt hours of power from the panels - so 1150 watt hours out of the
> battery if he is very lucky. That is 800 watts for about an hour
> and
> 15 minutes. Yes, he can get more out of the battery, but the battery
> will not recover it's charge unless charged with more than the 145
> watt panel, or charged for a few days with no load.

There are several multifunction DC wattmeters available to monitor the
system's condition and performance. Unfortunately I haven't found one
that does everything necessary. The ones which are powered by the
system battery measure current with a ground-referenced shunt and read
only shunt voltage higher than ground, ie they display current of one
polarity and ignore the other, so you'd need two to show both charge
and discharge current. They can be different, one matched to the
higher voltage and lower current from the panels and the other sized
for the maximum load current out of the battery.

The type that measures current in both directions with differential
inputs needs its negative supply to float below the system negative,
meaning they require batteries or a separate isolated power supply,
like a cheap obsolete miniUSB phone charger. I've suggested to DROK
that they should offer an isolated 12VDC - 5VDC converter for meters
that need it.
https://www.amazon.com/VAC1030A-wireless-bi-directional-voltagemeter-Multimeter/dp/B01JD6ZN8A

The low-cost analog panel ammeters aren't too bad.
https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Analog-Panel-Ammeter-Accuracy/dp/B00GLQ2GAY/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1505774074&sr=8-14&keywords=analog+ammeter+dc&refinements=p_89%3Auxcell

I have only more accurate digital meters on the batteries.

-jsw


Gunner Asch

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Sep 18, 2017, 10:29:21 PM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:30:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> writes:
>
>
>>He said "charge the battery", not "battery bank". I was thinking a
>>simple 80w for LED lights, radio, and laptop. One battery ought to
>>handle that. BUT, if he had a larger boat, solar panels could be
>>utilized to replace the sail while the batteries replaced a
>>significant portion of the ballast. VBG.
>
>
>It has solar panels now, but with not enough sun, the battery
>soon succumbed. Given you can't push-start a sailboat, this
>caused a major issue. Especially since we had no car available.


"the battery"....(1)? Thats a problem right there.

How big si the boat and what model is it?

Gunner

Gunner Asch

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Sep 18, 2017, 10:30:31 PM9/18/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:32:15 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>cl...@snyder.on.ca writes:
>
>>>what is 12"^3 mean?
>
>
>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -
>
>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....

Into the locker? For transportation only..right? Best not be running
your genset from inside the locker......nope..

Jim Wilkins

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Sep 19, 2017, 8:23:34 AM9/19/17
to
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:o801schg53borqe2h...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:32:15 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>cl...@snyder.on.ca writes:
>>
>>>>what is 12"^3 mean?
>>
>>
>>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic
>>> inches - - -
>>
>>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....
>
> Into the locker? For transportation only..right? Best not be
> running
> your genset from inside the locker......nope..

The 500Wi measures 12.6" x 14.1" x 8.2". It appears to be the very
similar little brother of the discontinued HF 2500/2200W inverter
generator.

I was wondering about that 12"^3 spec, as 12 cubic inches of engine
displacement is enough to generate over 3000 Watts in a machine that
needs wheels. I lifted a 3750W Coleman into the back of my car but I
wouldn't want to step off the dock into a small boat with it.

I've never seen a Honda EM400 or EM600 for sale, and only that one
500W Kohler Powerplay that I carried up onto the roof to patch holes
after a storm.
https://www.ebth.com/items/3587795-kohler-gas-powered-powerplay-500-watt-generator
16" x 14.5" x 9.5", and a loud 2-stroke like the little $99 HF genny.

A Honda EU1000i would be enough to keep my backup batteries charged,
but not to repair structural storm damage, cook with the microwave,
run an A/C or do laundry. The 3750W Coleman is barely enough to start
the washing machine or 1/2HP air compressor.

-jsw


Larry Jaques

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Sep 19, 2017, 8:57:26 AM9/19/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:30:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> writes:
>
>
>>He said "charge the battery", not "battery bank". I was thinking a
>>simple 80w for LED lights, radio, and laptop. One battery ought to
>>handle that. BUT, if he had a larger boat, solar panels could be
>>utilized to replace the sail while the batteries replaced a
>>significant portion of the ballast. VBG.
>
>
>It has solar panels now, but with not enough sun, the battery
>soon succumbed. Given you can't push-start a sailboat, this
>caused a major issue. Especially since we had no car available.

Ayup. Consider adding a wind turbine to your mast, too. And
definitely consider the noise before purchase. While you're docked in
a marina, a loud turbine could keep folks awake.

What size is the battery? If you simply drain the battery daily, it
will die quite a bit more quickly than if you only drain it 20%.

What is your watt usage? Is it a set amount daily, or not much today
and heaps tomorrow? Can you plan your usage around the battery?

What devices are you using on the system? Are they optimized for
mobile use?

Have you converted to LED and/or CFL lighting to save watts?

What size panels do you have? Solar panels still put out energy
without direct sun, through the overcast, but they don't put out
nearly as much.

And how can you order up more sun?

Larry Jaques

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Sep 19, 2017, 9:12:35 AM9/19/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:32:15 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>cl...@snyder.on.ca writes:
>
>>>what is 12"^3 mean?
>
>
>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -

1728 cubic inches, clare.


>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....

Even the nasty Tailgator, putting out about ten watts per decibel of
godawful noise, are 16x19. http://tinyurl.com/ybs8dtly I wouldn't
wish (curse) one of these on my worst enemy.

Rockin' Chair

unread,
Sep 19, 2017, 10:17:24 AM9/19/17
to
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:53:20 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:


>He said 800 watts load as well. (2) Deep cycle batteries will give him
>far more than 800 watts if he is on a 145 watt solar charging system.

Will you ever learn the difference between watts and watt-hours? Nope.
Yet you're convinced you're qualified to give advice!

Jim Wilkins

unread,
Sep 19, 2017, 6:31:08 PM9/19/17
to
"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:oppdt3$plo$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> writes:
>
>
>>He said "charge the battery", not "battery bank". I was thinking a
>>simple 80w for LED lights, radio, and laptop. One battery ought to
>>handle that. BUT, if he had a larger boat, solar panels could be
>>utilized to replace the sail while the batteries replaced a
>>significant portion of the ballast. VBG.
>
>
> It has solar panels now, but with not enough sun, the battery
> soon succumbed. Given you can't push-start a sailboat, this
> caused a major issue. Especially since we had no car available.

I haven't found anything less than a foot long. Perhaps you could belt
a car alternator to something like these:
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/small-4--stroke-engine.html

-jsw


cl...@snyder.on.ca

unread,
Sep 19, 2017, 10:51:02 PM9/19/17
to

David Lesher

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 12:55:48 AM9/20/17
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> writes:

>>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -
>>
>>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....

>Into the locker? For transportation only..right?
Absolutely.

>Best not be running your genset from inside the locker......

Hardly. If we were underway, the iron genny would be charging
both sets of batteries. But when you show up at the mooring and
the bilge pump has run the house battery string down, and the
Volvo would not crank fast enough to start..... then what?

And anything onboard not lashed down/stowed is soon in midair...

(It's a Alberg37, displacing 16,800+ lbs, with a 3 cyl. Volvo.
And no oars included....)

John B.

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 1:38:37 AM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 04:55:45 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -
>>>
>>>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....
>
>>Into the locker? For transportation only..right?
>Absolutely.
>
>>Best not be running your genset from inside the locker......
>
>Hardly. If we were underway, the iron genny would be charging
>both sets of batteries. But when you show up at the mooring and
>the bilge pump has run the house battery string down, and the
>Volvo would not crank fast enough to start..... then what?
>
>And anything onboard not lashed down/stowed is soon in midair...
>
>(It's a Alberg37, displacing 16,800+ lbs, with a 3 cyl. Volvo.
>And no oars included....)

I know a number of people, myself included, that kept a small gen set
in a locker for just that sort of thing. In my case the stern locker
was vented overboard so I kept the cooking gas and the gen set in the
stern locker and just moved the gen set on the aft deck when I wanted
to use it.

It was an AC generator which can be quite useful of you have any
electrical tools or kitchen gadgets and a small battery charger served
to keep the batteries up to snuff.
--
Cheers,

John B.

David Lesher

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 2:24:38 AM9/20/17
to
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:


>I know a number of people, myself included, that kept a small gen set
>in a locker for just that sort of thing. In my case the stern locker
>was vented overboard so I kept the cooking gas and the gen set in the
>stern locker and just moved the gen set on the aft deck when I wanted
>to use it.

>It was an AC generator which can be quite useful of you have any
>electrical tools or kitchen gadgets and a small battery charger served
>to keep the batteries up to snuff.

Yep, but we won't carry gasoline, which makes it harder.


>John B.

Can I assume you're a sloop?

goodsoldi...@invalid.junk

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 3:12:13 AM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:24:34 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>I know a number of people, myself included, that kept a small gen set
>>in a locker for just that sort of thing. In my case the stern locker
>>was vented overboard so I kept the cooking gas and the gen set in the
>>stern locker and just moved the gen set on the aft deck when I wanted
>>to use it.
>
>>It was an AC generator which can be quite useful of you have any
>>electrical tools or kitchen gadgets and a small battery charger served
>>to keep the batteries up to snuff.
>
>Yep, but we won't carry gasoline, which makes it harder.
>
>
>>John B.
>
>Can I assume you're a sloop?

Yes 40 ft. actually registered LOD was 39-7/10 Ft. GW 16 tons
We lived aboard for about 10 years and sailed mainly in S.E. Asia.

As for gasoline aboard, I carried about 5 gallons in a bright red
jerry can on the side deck, forward. And was careful about filling
outboards and gen sets :-)

--
Cheers,

Schweik

Jim Wilkins

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 7:11:13 AM9/20/17
to
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:krl3schle3hglrjp6...@4ax.com...
Nice job! I have a slightly newer Briggs & Stratton model 6BS, on a
Hahn Eclipse Rocket reel mower.

I try to suggest currently available products as old stuff like most
of my machinery is hard to find and may have antique value:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/222647289470?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Any similarity of this place to a museum.is purely coincidental.
-jsw





Jim Wilkins

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 9:07:35 AM9/20/17
to
"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:opssch$ice$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic
>>>> inches - - -
>>>
>>>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....
>
>>Into the locker? For transportation only..right?
> Absolutely.
>
>>Best not be running your genset from inside the locker......
>
> Hardly. If we were underway, the iron genny would be charging
> both sets of batteries. But when you show up at the mooring and
> the bilge pump has run the house battery string down, and the
> Volvo would not crank fast enough to start..... then what?
> ...

Bring a freshly charged lightweight Lithium jump starter pack?

Lithiums are expensive for their Amp-hour capacity but they are small,
light and well packaged to bounce around in a vehicle. The power
terminals on my Whistler Mighty are recessed behind a snap-shut rubber
flap. It comes with a rugged zippered nylon case to protect the
battery, cables and chargers.

Better rated:
https://no.co/products/power/jumpstarters

Perhaps you should look into why the solar panels didn't charge the
starting battery.

Older batteries may require higher charging voltage. My testing
indicates that they come back to normal if topped up periodically,
like monthly, though some of mine have degraded in two weeks and
needed 15V or more to restore them, which the usual charger won't
provide. That's why I built my own metered adjustable grid / solar
charging controllers and prefer batteries with caps to check and top
up the electrolyte.

I don't (yet) have a good plan to obtain long life from unattended
outdoor batteries. I have to set the charger voltage and current to
match their condition. My industrial experience was all with systems
the users maintain, like telephone exchanges, portable medical devices
and the Segway.

Recently two of my 12V 7A-h AGMs failed with a bad cell. The only
symptom while charging is the current doesn't decrease below 1% of the
A-h capacity in a few hours, otherwise the charging voltage appears
normal, but they drop below 11V when briefly loaded.

There are computerized chargers that test battery condition although I
think I can do more with lab test equipment including a carbon pile
load tester. An automatic charger that included one would be dangerous
if it malfunctioned.
-jsw


cl...@snyder.on.ca

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 10:23:25 AM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:24:34 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>I know a number of people, myself included, that kept a small gen set
>>in a locker for just that sort of thing. In my case the stern locker
>>was vented overboard so I kept the cooking gas and the gen set in the
>>stern locker and just moved the gen set on the aft deck when I wanted
>>to use it.
>
>>It was an AC generator which can be quite useful of you have any
>>electrical tools or kitchen gadgets and a small battery charger served
>>to keep the batteries up to snuff.
>
>Yep, but we won't carry gasoline, which makes it harder.
>
>
>>John B.
>
>Can I assume you're a sloop?
Put a "motor snorkel" conversion on and run Propane.

Gunner Asch

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 11:12:14 AM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 04:55:45 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -
>>>
>>>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....
>
>>Into the locker? For transportation only..right?
>Absolutely.
>
>>Best not be running your genset from inside the locker......
>
>Hardly. If we were underway, the iron genny would be charging
>both sets of batteries. But when you show up at the mooring and
>the bilge pump has run the house battery string down, and the
>Volvo would not crank fast enough to start..... then what?

I never have that problem. I keep my daily driver on a trailer which
is never more than extension cord length from my house. I leave out
the drain plug in case it rains. Works for me so long as the old lady
pays the Pacific Gas and Extorsion bill. VBG

>And anything onboard not lashed down/stowed is soon in midair...

Yeah, earthquakes, BTDT. Supplied food and power to my entire
neighborhood several times.

>(It's a Alberg37, displacing 16,800+ lbs, with a 3 cyl. Volvo.
>And no oars included....)

I'd like to have that. I usually get my boats for free but Id be
willing to pay a few bucks for yours. Cash is a little tight but I
could make $10 a month payments now that the Trump economy is gaining
traction! Six months OK? Let me know.

Gunner Asch

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 12:05:37 PM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 04:55:45 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>>> I'm guessing 12 inches to the power of 3 - or 12 cubic inches - - -
>>>
>>>An approximate size of what will fix into the locker....
>
>>Into the locker? For transportation only..right?
>Absolutely.
>
>>Best not be running your genset from inside the locker......
>
>Hardly. If we were underway, the iron genny would be charging
>both sets of batteries. But when you show up at the mooring and
>the bilge pump has run the house battery string down, and the
>Volvo would not crank fast enough to start..... then what?
>
>And anything onboard not lashed down/stowed is soon in midair...
>
>(It's a Alberg37, displacing 16,800+ lbs, with a 3 cyl. Volvo.
>And no oars included....)


And it doesnt have space in the engine locker for another (2-4) deep
cycle batteries and a battery switch A/B/All/None?

Hell..Ive got at least (2) in each of my 7 sailboats.


Shrug. So put it a genset on the foredeck so it is harder to hear
when its running.

Gunner

Gunner Asch

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Sep 20, 2017, 12:51:14 PM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:12:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
<Gunne...@gmaiil.com> wrote:

>Path: not-for-mail
>From: Gunner Asch <Gunne...@gmaiil.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
>Subject: Re: Tiny engines
>Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:12:12 -0700
>Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Snicker....Poor Johnny...no wonder he is desperate to be superior to
somebody..anybody....

But he does have it right...I generally pay little or nothing for my
boats..just fuel to go get them, then I fix em up and roll them over
for enough cash to pick up and fix up another boat.

My latest boat..and an overview of my rolling and sailing stock....

https://goo.gl/photos/gaFkPC11Zs9Qn54Z9

My group on Yahoo Groups..."Cheapsailboats"

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/cheapsailboats/info

Feel free to join (free of course) and we can find you a free or
cheap sailboat.
Even Johnnyboi..but his will have to be small...very small...so he can
sail it in the toilet in his room, at the Home.

That certainly does bring up a fascinating mental picture doesnt
it...him, with his head in the toilet bowl..blowing at the sail on
this 2" toy sailboat...trying to get a broad reach and not hitting the
floating turds......snerk!

The most recent boat on Cheapsailboats:

https://plattsburgh.craigslist.org/boa/d/macgregor-venture-21-project/6228468171.html
MacGregor Venture 21 project includes trailer with brand new tires -
$250 (Plattsburgh NY)

condition: fair
length overall (LOA): 21
make / manufacturer: MacGregor
model name / number: Venture 21
propulsion type: sail
I purchased this as a project but realized it is not what I want to be
doing in the summer and have no indoor place to do it in the winter.
Passing it along at my cost. I believe it is all there with the
acception of the mast step plate which was missing when I bought the
boat. Trailer has brand new tires 2017.

The MacGregor Venture 21 has a swing keel and is easy to trailer and
launch even at shallow ramps.

The owners manual states that it is capable of planing downwind at 16
knots!"

(If you are in New York...the Mac 21 is a very fun boat...and it is
fast as hell. One of the fastest production boats of its type ever
made.

My most recent boat...I need to go pick it up before long

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=6604

Once I get it, Ill set up another album and document its restoration.


Some of the other boats I own and have fixed up..or are on the fixup
list.

https://goo.gl/photos/CWtpsL3UPsaixbqK8

https://goo.gl/photos/oYg1BhQ2XShyJ1ca8

https://goo.gl/photos/9oD63QzMwZ1kx4he8

https://goo.gl/photos/Ke9AdFsiJrTWrVLc6

https://goo.gl/photos/qvUCNgSYoiTeiNaw8

etc etc. Shrug

Sailing season here in Central California is almost here....and we
have water in all the lakes!! Yippeee!!!

Gunner

Rockin' Chair

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 2:14:13 PM9/20/17
to
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 09:51:09 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Why don't you fuck him up instead of writing impotent nonsense? What
was the point of all the tough guy talk if all you're ever going to do
is yap?

>But he does have it right...I generally pay little or nothing for my
>boats..just fuel to go get them, then I fix em up and roll them over
>for enough cash to pick up and fix up another boat.

When will that generate enough cash to pay your current taxes, <$200,
admiral?

http://www.kcttc.co.kern.ca.us/Payment/ATNDetails.aspx?NUMBER=03930320008&NUM_TYPE=AT&YR=C

How much more boat hoarding/"investment" until you can pay even one of
those bills?

Gerry

unread,
Sep 20, 2017, 7:51:55 PM9/20/17
to
Beautiful! At about four years old, I remember discussions about how
to hook up an exhaust pipe to the one on my aunt's washing machine.
The discussion degraded to how the exhaust system could be applied to
my Grandmother.
I wish I still had some of the motors I collected over the years then
donated to numerous nephews as power sources for go-karts - small B&S
with both vertical and horizontal spark plugs, Iron horse like yours,
Muncey outboards, Evinrude four cylinder 5HP (cylinders fired in pair)
outboard that I bought for five bucks in two cardboard boxes, a couple
of English "Suffolk Supreme"engines from reel mowers.
Ido have the 3HP Johnson that Dad and I bought new for $150.00 in
1954, must get it out of the shed and get it running, It only has
around 200 hous on it and hasn't been run since 1981.

David Lesher

unread,
Sep 21, 2017, 12:12:35 PM9/21/17
to
goodsoldi...@invalid.junk writes:

>>>John B.
>>
>>Can I assume you're a sloop?

>Yes 40 ft. actually registered LOD was 39-7/10 Ft. GW 16 tons
>We lived aboard for about 10 years and sailed mainly in S.E. Asia.

I guess I wooshed you on that reference....

<https://youtu.be/nSAoEf1Ib58>

David Lesher

unread,
Sep 21, 2017, 12:20:07 PM9/21/17
to
Gunner Asch <Gunne...@gmaiil.com> writes:

>>But when you show up at the mooring and the bilge pump has run
>>the house battery string down, and the Volvo would not crank
>>fast enough to start..... then what?

>I never have that problem. I keep my daily driver on a trailer which
>is never more than extension cord length from my house.

Not sure what brand of trailer winches up an Alberg37; and mast
clearance and power wires, overpasses etc. while towing it home
just *might* be an issue...

As for free, I'm not the owner, just a deckhand. But he must have
been wearing a mask, as he stole it at what he paid for it.

goodsoldi...@google.com

unread,
Sep 21, 2017, 8:02:41 PM9/21/17
to
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 16:12:31 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>goodsoldi...@invalid.junk writes:
>
>>>>John B.
>>>
>>>Can I assume you're a sloop?
>
>>Yes 40 ft. actually registered LOD was 39-7/10 Ft. GW 16 tons
>>We lived aboard for about 10 years and sailed mainly in S.E. Asia.
>
>I guess I wooshed you on that reference....
>
><https://youtu.be/nSAoEf1Ib58>

(smile ) But I came on the sloop "Kestel II".
--
Cheers,

Schweik
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