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Starvation Wages
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jon_banquer
Aug 29, 2013, 9:59:21 AM8/29/13
to
"Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
F. George McDuffee
Aug 29, 2013, 10:58:28 AM8/29/13
to
***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
button issue for me) *****
===========================
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/americas-growing-income-inequality-problem-5339?google_editors_picks=true
<snip>
As we can see in 2010 only two nations, Mexico and Chile,
were worse in the gap between rich and poor than the United
States. Again, most of America is clearly in 3rd world
status at this point and the illusion of America being the
wealthiest nation on Earth is only for a select few.
<snip>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/25/income-inequality_n_3814333.html
<snip>
Income inequality increased dramatically between 1979 and
2007, when a global financial crisis rocked not just the
U.S. but the entire world. But maybe things have turned
around since then? No. Just take a look at what happened in
2011:
snip>
Real [that means inflation-adjusted] median
household income declined between 2010 and 2011, a second
consecutive annual decline.
The poverty rate in 2011 was not statistically
different from 2010.
Both the percentage and number of people without
health insurance decreased between 2010 and 2011.
<snip>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
<snip>
The return to high inequality�or what Krugman and journalist
Timothy Noah have referred as the "Great Divergence"�began
in the 1970s.
The income growth of the average American family closely
matched that of economic productivity until some time in the
1970s. While it began to stagnate, productivity has
continued to climb.
Studies have found income grew more unequal almost
continuously except during the economic recessions in
1990-91, 2001 (Dot-com bubble), and 2007 sub-prime bust.
<snip>
button issue for me) *****
If you want a third world society and culture, create a
third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
third world wages... Unka' George
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/americas-growing-income-inequality-problem-5339?google_editors_picks=true
<snip>
As we can see in 2010 only two nations, Mexico and Chile,
were worse in the gap between rich and poor than the United
States. Again, most of America is clearly in 3rd world
status at this point and the illusion of America being the
wealthiest nation on Earth is only for a select few.
<snip>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/25/income-inequality_n_3814333.html
<snip>
Income inequality increased dramatically between 1979 and
2007, when a global financial crisis rocked not just the
U.S. but the entire world. But maybe things have turned
around since then? No. Just take a look at what happened in
2011:
snip>
Real [that means inflation-adjusted] median
household income declined between 2010 and 2011, a second
consecutive annual decline.
The poverty rate in 2011 was not statistically
different from 2010.
Both the percentage and number of people without
health insurance decreased between 2010 and 2011.
<snip>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
<snip>
The return to high inequality�or what Krugman and journalist
Timothy Noah have referred as the "Great Divergence"�began
in the 1970s.
The income growth of the average American family closely
matched that of economic productivity until some time in the
1970s. While it began to stagnate, productivity has
continued to climb.
Studies have found income grew more unequal almost
continuously except during the economic recessions in
1990-91, 2001 (Dot-com bubble), and 2007 sub-prime bust.
<snip>
Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 12:23:03 PM8/29/13
to
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 12:29:41 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
> button issue for me) *****
>
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>
> ===========================
>
> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
> third world wages... Unka' George
You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
> button issue for me) *****
>
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>
> ===========================
>
> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
> third world wages... Unka' George
The jobs pay that much because that's what the labor is worth.
Ignoramus15215
Aug 29, 2013, 12:58:44 PM8/29/13
to
Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
can do their job better.
"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
computers, is constantly raised.
The implications of this are disturbing.
Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
understand why they became redundant.
i
With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
can do their job better.
"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
computers, is constantly raised.
The implications of this are disturbing.
Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
understand why they became redundant.
i
Dhu on Gate
Aug 29, 2013, 1:06:39 PM8/29/13
to
My guess is simple greed on your part.
Dhu
>
> The jobs pay that much because that's what the labor is worth.
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
azotic
Aug 29, 2013, 2:13:06 PM8/29/13
to
"Ignoramus15215" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.15215.invalid> wrote in message
news:6uednaUCVdtZ4ILP...@giganews.com...
to low wage contries/regions. Where does apple manufacture thier
products? Most people are coned into believing the government
controls the ecconomy when in fact it is controlled by multinational
corporations, wall street bankers and thier lobbyists. They are the
ones who decide who gets the wealth. Technological change is not
the cause of exporting jobs.
Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/
Message has been deleted
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 2:36:38 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 11:23 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> Who is supposed to buy what they're producing?
The customers, you fuckwit.
> In article <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
The customers, you fuckwit.
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 2:50:58 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 1:06 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>
>>> ===========================
>>>
>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>
>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>
> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>
>>> ===========================
>>>
>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>
>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>
> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
till an additional three or four million illegal immigrants arrive for
the amnesty in the next 12 months. The migration has already begun.
Think wages are low now? Just wait a bit when those folks, who live 10
to 15 in a room and subsist on rice and beans, take work at $5 or less
an hour.
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 3:02:45 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 9:58 AM, Ignoramus15215 wrote:
> Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
No, it isn't.
> Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
jon_banquer
Aug 29, 2013, 3:10:09 PM8/29/13
to
You have no real understanding of what "one way" free trade has done to the American middle class. Both political parties are responsible and both share equal blame.
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George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 4:08:18 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 12:23 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <6cfdb$521f9464$414e828e$29...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> What they going to use instead of the money you declared they haven't earned?
Customers have money. If they don't have money, they aren't customers.
Why do you think there won't be any customers? You stupid fuck - you
don't even know what the $13.79/hour laborers are making.
> In article <6cfdb$521f9464$414e828e$29...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
Customers have money. If they don't have money, they aren't customers.
Why do you think there won't be any customers? You stupid fuck - you
don't even know what the $13.79/hour laborers are making.
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 4:08:48 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 12:25 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>,
Customers.
I thought we had been through this already?
> In article <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>,
> Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2013 1:06 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than
>>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>>>
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>>>
>>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>>>
>>> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
>>
>> Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
>
> Who is going to demand the products they are producing?
>
>> On 8/29/2013 1:06 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than
>>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>>>
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>>>
>>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>>>
>>> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
>>
>> Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
>
Customers.
I thought we had been through this already?
jon_banquer
Aug 29, 2013, 4:16:04 PM8/29/13
to
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:23:03 AM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Well, that's the Obama economy for you.
Obama's economy hasn't worked.
> Well, that's the Obama economy for you.
Bush's economy didn't work.
Explain why neither has worked for the middle class and what both Obama and Bush have in common.
Message has been deleted
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 4:43:50 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 1:42 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <81b0f$521fa9e1$414e828e$41...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> The employees don't have the money, so they aren't the customers.
The employees *do* have money: they are paid wages for their work.
>
>> Why do you think there won't be any customers? You stupid fuck - you
>> don't even know what the $13.79/hour laborers are making.
>
> And once again you start with your
You haven't identified a problem.
> In article <81b0f$521fa9e1$414e828e$41...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
The employees *do* have money: they are paid wages for their work.
>
>> Why do you think there won't be any customers? You stupid fuck - you
>> don't even know what the $13.79/hour laborers are making.
>
You haven't identified a problem.
Message has been deleted
Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 4:56:18 PM8/29/13
to
I'm so glad you keep posting to tell us.
I mean, how would we ever know?
On 8/29/2013 4:46 PM, §ρamßuster wrote:
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> STILL NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
> From: Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:42:10 -0700
> Organization: Katie Holmes's iPhone
> Lines: 58
> Message-ID: <chine.bleu-C2A82...@news.eternal-september.org>
> References: <fe6b03d0-a93e-41d8...@googlegroups.com>
> <71nu19lo7f2na4vn5...@4ax.com>
> <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>
> <chine.bleu-13694...@news.eternal-september.org>
> <6cfdb$521f9464$414e828e$29...@EVERESTKC.NET>
> <chine.bleu-77ABD...@news.eternal-september.org>
> <81b0f$521fa9e1$414e828e$41...@EVERESTKC.NET>
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> X-It-Strategy: Hyperwarp starship before Andromeda collides.
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> or.politics:987683 can.politics:1483944
I mean, how would we ever know?
On 8/29/2013 4:46 PM, §ρamßuster wrote:
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> STILL NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> On 8/29/2013 1:42 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
>
> On 8/29/2013 1:42 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:42:10 -0700
> Organization: Katie Holmes's iPhone
> Lines: 58
> Message-ID: <chine.bleu-C2A82...@news.eternal-september.org>
> References: <fe6b03d0-a93e-41d8...@googlegroups.com>
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> <81b0f$521fa9e1$414e828e$41...@EVERESTKC.NET>
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> X-No-Archive: Yes
> X-It-Strategy: Hyperwarp starship before Andromeda collides.
> X-Face: $@Ae^D@4_kvHM5:gt9Rs2R1YXbOf7k8llAUWN.{H.u(2`>/U9jG2=1>DLT*WYm
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Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 4:56:44 PM8/29/13
to
I'm so glad you keep posting to tell us.
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 8/29/2013 4:02 PM, §ρamßuster wrote:
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
>
> =================================================================
>
> NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> On 8/29/2013 11:50 AM, Sancho Panza wrote:
> NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com>
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> Thunderbird/17.0.8
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> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> References: <fe6b03d0-a93e-41d8...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> <71nu19lo7f2na4vn5...@4ax.com>
> <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>
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Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 4:56:51 PM8/29/13
to
I'm so glad you keep posting to tell us.
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 8/29/2013 3:32 PM, §ρamßuster wrote:
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
> ab...@eternal-september.org
>
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> On 8/29/2013 12:23 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:23:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Organization: Katie Holmes's iPhone
> Lines: 38
> Message-ID: <chine.bleu-77ABD...@news.eternal-september.org>
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> X-Face: $@Ae^D@4_kvHM5:gt9Rs2R1YXbOf7k8llAUWN.{H.u(2`>/U9jG2=1>DLT*WYm
> X-Plain: Mayonaisse on white bread.
> X-Received-Bytes: 2765
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> or.politics:987667 can.politics:1483930
Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 4:56:57 PM8/29/13
to
I'm so glad you keep posting to tell us.
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 8/29/2013 3:31 PM, §ρamßuster wrote:
> ab...@eternal-september.org
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> On 8/29/2013 12:25 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:25:00 -0700
> ab...@eternal-september.org
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> On 8/29/2013 12:25 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Organization: Katie Holmes's iPhone
> Lines: 35
> Message-ID: <chine.bleu-E47FD...@news.eternal-september.org>
> References: <fe6b03d0-a93e-41d8...@googlegroups.com>
> <71nu19lo7f2na4vn5...@4ax.com>
> <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>
> <zcLTt.33005$Zd2....@fx02.iad> <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>
> Injection-Info: mx05.eternal-september.org;
> posting-host="bf08981276d0f9553673b0653b56481e";
> logging-data="24358";
> mail-complaints-to="ab...@eternal-september.org";
> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+IpOXQ1KpcJdt6uT2wGjhvw66t7Nn69I4="
> posting-host="bf08981276d0f9553673b0653b56481e";
> logging-data="24358";
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> Cancel-Lock: sha1:eAHpYR8ilDXJWyX4M89W7yN+yM4=
> X-No-Archive: Yes
> X-It-Strategy: Hyperwarp starship before Andromeda collides.
> X-Face: $@Ae^D@4_kvHM5:gt9Rs2R1YXbOf7k8llAUWN.{H.u(2`>/U9jG2=1>DLT*WYm
> X-Plain: Mayonaisse on white bread.
> X-Received-Bytes: 2638
> Xref: e rec.crafts.metalworking:994976 alt.california:909690
> or.politics:987668 can.politics:1483931
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 5:00:22 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 3:25 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>,
> Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> In article <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>,
> Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2013 1:06 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than
>>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>>>
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>>>
>>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>>>
>>> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
>>
>> Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
>
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than
>>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>>>
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>>>
>>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>>>
>>> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
>>
>> Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
>
> Who is going to demand the products they are producing?
>
People who have the initiative, the education, the training, the
>
integrity to advance themselves to better-paying positions.
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 5:16:15 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 3:25 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>,
> Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> In article <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>,
> Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/29/2013 1:06 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than
>>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>>>
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>>>
>>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>>>
>>> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
>>
>> Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
>
>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:29:41 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
>>>>> button issue for me) *****
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than
>>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
>>>>>
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
>>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
>>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
>>>>
>>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
>>>
>>> No less than you. What makes you such an expurt on "wage structure"?
>>
>> Simple basic economics. Supply and demand. Don't buy that? Just wait
>
> Who is going to demand the products they are producing?
>
Once again, the answer to the question was poorly trimmed in the
>
preceding sentence. Here it is for the sake convenience: "Just wait till
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 5:25:13 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 5:22 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <BSOTt.34513$ob7....@fx03.iad>,
> You said they are going to be paid even less so they will have even less money
> to spend, and so not increasing demand as fast as they increase supply.
>
A Big Mac is a big Sunday meal for many people. Too bad you are not so
much in touch with the common people you pose as vouching for.
> In article <BSOTt.34513$ob7....@fx03.iad>,
> to spend, and so not increasing demand as fast as they increase supply.
>
A Big Mac is a big Sunday meal for many people. Too bad you are not so
much in touch with the common people you pose as vouching for.
Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 5:26:10 PM8/29/13
to
I'm so glad you keep posting to tell us.
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
I mean, how would we ever know?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 8/29/2013 5:12 PM, §ρamßuster wrote:
>
>
> =================================================================
>
> STILL NOT INTERESTED IN CANADA, THANKS. . . .
>
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> =================================================================
>
>
> On 8/29/2013 2:00 PM, Sancho Panza wrote:
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801
> Thunderbird/17.0.8
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
> On 8/29/2013 2:00 PM, Sancho Panza wrote:
>
>
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: Sancho Panza <otter...@xhotmail.com>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801
> Thunderbird/17.0.8
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.california,or.politics,can.politics
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> Subject: Re: Starvation Wages
> References: <fe6b03d0-a93e-41d8...@googlegroups.com>
> <71nu19lo7f2na4vn5...@4ax.com>
> <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>
> <zcLTt.33005$Zd2....@fx02.iad> <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>
> <chine.bleu-E47FD...@news.eternal-september.org>
> <71nu19lo7f2na4vn5...@4ax.com>
> <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>
> <zcLTt.33005$Zd2....@fx02.iad> <nKMTt.230891$po1.2...@fx15.iad>
> In-Reply-To: <chine.bleu-E47FD...@news.eternal-september.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 130829-0, 08/29/2013), Outbound message
> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
> Lines: 36
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 130829-0, 08/29/2013), Outbound message
> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
> Message-ID: <HDOTt.34420$ob7....@fx03.iad>
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@cv.net
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 21:00:23 UTC
> Organization: Optimum Online
> Bytes: 2468
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:00:22 -0400
> Xref: e rec.crafts.metalworking:995005 alt.california:909707
> or.politics:987692 can.politics:1483949
>
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cl...@snyder.on.ca
Aug 29, 2013, 6:00:05 PM8/29/13
to
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:58:44 -0500, Ignoramus15215
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.15215.invalid> wrote:
>Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
>
>With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
>and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
>can do their job better.
>
>"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
>teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
>of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
>the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
>
>As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
>trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
>better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
>computers, is constantly raised.
>
>The implications of this are disturbing.
>
>Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
>understand why they became redundant.
>
>i
The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
or their children's lifetimes.
And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
mechanics, etc.
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.15215.invalid> wrote:
>Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
>
>With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
>and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
>can do their job better.
>
>"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
>teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
>of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
>the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
>
>As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
>trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
>better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
>computers, is constantly raised.
>
>The implications of this are disturbing.
>
>Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
>understand why they became redundant.
>
>i
The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
or their children's lifetimes.
And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
mechanics, etc.
Stormin Mormon
Aug 29, 2013, 6:27:59 PM8/29/13
to
I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
give it to farmers.
> shut down those subsidies.
>
give it to farmers.
On 8/29/2013 5:52 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>
>> A Big Mac is a big Sunday meal for many people. Too bad you are not so
>> much in touch with the common people you pose as vouching for.
>
> The price depends on beef and potato subsidies from USDA. Republicans want to
>>>
>> A Big Mac is a big Sunday meal for many people. Too bad you are not so
>> much in touch with the common people you pose as vouching for.
>
> shut down those subsidies.
>
Message has been deleted
Steve Walker
Aug 29, 2013, 6:56:32 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 18:00, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
<SNIP>
>> i
> The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
> intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
> tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
> or their children's lifetimes.
True. However, the youth of today has been conditioned into believing
they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of
jobs. Unfortunately, as is the same for all the athletes who base their
future on becoming a pro, there aren't enough openings are available.
You must be VERY good at what you do, have a few connections, and have a
backup plan in case you don't succeed in achieving the elite status you
desire. Most do not.
>
> And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
> than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
> mechanics, etc.
>
True. Those trades cannot be outsourced.
--
Steve Walker
Fusi...@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)
<SNIP>
>> i
> The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
> intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
> tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
> or their children's lifetimes.
they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of
jobs. Unfortunately, as is the same for all the athletes who base their
future on becoming a pro, there aren't enough openings are available.
You must be VERY good at what you do, have a few connections, and have a
backup plan in case you don't succeed in achieving the elite status you
desire. Most do not.
>
> And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
> than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
> mechanics, etc.
>
--
Steve Walker
Fusi...@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)
Message has been deleted
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 7:14:00 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 3:58 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <AVPTt.38438$Ic2....@fx12.iad>,
Price supports are not intended to prevent famine.
> In article <AVPTt.38438$Ic2....@fx12.iad>,
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>> give it to farmers.
>
> Do you believe famine is impossible even without government support?
>
>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>> give it to farmers.
>
Price supports are not intended to prevent famine.
Tom Gardner
Aug 29, 2013, 7:17:34 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 12:58 PM, Ignoramus15215 wrote:
> Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
>
> With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
> and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
> can do their job better.
>
> "Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
> teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
> of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
> the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
>
> As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
> trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
> better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
> computers, is constantly raised.
>
> The implications of this are disturbing.
>
> Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
> understand why they became redundant.
>
> i
>
My latest PLC machine: I have hired a person in the morning and trained
> Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
>
> With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
> and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
> can do their job better.
>
> "Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
> teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
> of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
> the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
>
> As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
> trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
> better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
> computers, is constantly raised.
>
> The implications of this are disturbing.
>
> Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
> understand why they became redundant.
>
> i
>
him to put two parts and 6 bundles of wire in place and put his hands
into the two hand cuffs then take the finished part out and put it in a
barrel. Repeat. That new hire makes exactly the same number of parts
as a 15 year veteran. And five times as many as an artisan makes by
hand on a simple machine. The product is of higher quality, can be run
at higher speeds and use high-tensile wire.
We and working on automating the insertion of the parts. I don't need
to send jobs overseas or train an operator for months. But, I have to
compete with Chinese products using junk materials.
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 7:35:42 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 5:22 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <HDOTt.34420$ob7....@fx03.iad>,
> So you're depending on faith based economics.
>
Just where does it say that those are "faith based," as you so
stretchingly put it? The only relationship is that basic decent human
values and attributes are usually found in religious tenets, too. Too
bad if that poses a problem for you.
> In article <HDOTt.34420$ob7....@fx03.iad>,
>
Just where does it say that those are "faith based," as you so
stretchingly put it? The only relationship is that basic decent human
values and attributes are usually found in religious tenets, too. Too
bad if that poses a problem for you.
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 7:41:30 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 5:52 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <%_OTt.175886$9C2....@fx31.iad>,
supply and demand. Then in a nonresponsive and non sequitur you start
referring to government subsidies. Enterprises like Mickey D's tend to
buy the bulk of such products from sources that have nothing to do with
USDA subsidies.
> In article <%_OTt.175886$9C2....@fx31.iad>,
> The price depends on beef and potato subsidies from USDA. Republicans want to
> shut down those subsidies.
>
You just wrote three paragraphs above that the Big Mac depended on
> shut down those subsidies.
>
supply and demand. Then in a nonresponsive and non sequitur you start
referring to government subsidies. Enterprises like Mickey D's tend to
buy the bulk of such products from sources that have nothing to do with
USDA subsidies.
Ed Huntress
Aug 29, 2013, 7:59:03 PM8/29/13
to
"very high paying, non physical labor type of jobs."
Here are the actual unemployment figures for the jobs mentioned, from
a Wall Street Journal analysis of Bureau of Labor Stastics figures
from 2012:
Electrician 11.2%
Plumber 10.2%
Millright 6.9%
Automotive mechanics 7.9%
The national average at that time was 7.8%. Here are the geek jobs
mentioned above:
Computer scientists and systems analysts 3.6%
Computer and IT managers 3.2%
And so it goes. Computer hardware engineers, 1.9%. Biomedical
engineers, 0.4%. Brick and stone masons, 18.8%.
The kids have been "conditioned" right.
http://tinyurl.com/apejd2o
--
Ed Huntress
Wayne
Aug 29, 2013, 8:09:06 PM8/29/13
to
"Siri Cruise" wrote in message
news:chine.bleu-C2A82...@news.eternal-september.org...
In article <81b0f$521fa9e1$414e828e$41...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 8/29/2013 12:23 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> > In article <6cfdb$521f9464$414e828e$29...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> > George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/29/2013 11:23 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> >>> In article <c6e12$521f76bd$414e828e$19...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> >>> George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
> >>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
> >>>>> button issue for me) *****
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
> >>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less
> >>>>>> than
> >>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ===========================
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
> >>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
> >>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
> >>>>
> >>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
> >>>>
> >>>> The jobs pay that much because that's what the labor is worth.
> >>>
> >>>> On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
> >>>>> ***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot
> >>>>> button issue for me) *****
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
> >>>>> <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less
> >>>>>> than
> >>>>>> $13.80 an hour."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ===========================
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you want a third world society and culture, create a
> >>>>> third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay
> >>>>> third world wages... Unka' George
> >>>>
> >>>> You are incompetent to be discussing wage structure.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Who is supposed to buy what they're producing?
> >>
> >> The customers, you fuckwit.
> >
> > What they going to use instead of the money you declared they haven't
> > earned?
>
> Customers have money. If they don't have money, they aren't customers.
# The employees don't have the money, so they aren't the customers. Who are
the
# customers?
So what the hell difference is it that employees can't buy stuff from their
employer?
Minimum wage jobs are paid at what they are worth. That's the same at any
job.
But minimum wage jobs are just passing jobs on a career path. If someone
chooses to stick with a dead end job, there's no reason for me to pay more
because of their lack of initiative.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 8:19:20 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 8:09 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <M_QTt.116892$Le.5...@fx13.iad>,
> I don't know who is stupider you or George. The dependence on subsidies means
> this not a free market transaction, so you're an idiot to bring it up.
You are the person who brought up the basics of free markets, as
referenced: "They will have even less money to spend, and so not
> That you
> are unaware of subsidies to corn, potatoes, and cattle shows why you say such
> stupid things about politics.
Maybe you want to adopt the agitprop tactic of putting words and/or
ideas in other people's mouths. Show any indication of my being "unaware
of subsidies" in agriculture. The point that eluded you is that
Why Does The U.S. Both Import And Export Beef?
Jun. 11, 2010
The job of markets is to seek out the highest value for products
produced and encourage the most efficient use of resources to facilitate
that production, says Derrell Peel, Oklahoma State University (OSU)
Extension livestock marketing specialist.
The job of markets is to seek out the highest value for products
produced and encourage the most efficient use of resources to facilitate
that production, says Derrell Peel, Oklahoma State University (OSU)
Extension livestock marketing specialist. Keeping this in mind helps
explain current production and trade relationships in the U.S. beef
industry.
“The U.S. is the largest producer, the largest consumer, the
third-largest exporter and the largest importer of beef in the world. I
get many questions about U.S. beef trade and particularly why we need to
import beef,” he says.
The role of beef exports is obvious, on the one hand, in that it
represents an addition to domestic beef demand and thus expands the
total size of the market for U.S. beef. However, beef exports play a
more subtle role that’s often not well understood.
One of many complexities that make the beef industry so challenging is
the fact that the set of animals processed into meat results in a vast
array of different products of different qualities. The set of products
produced does not, in general, exactly match the preferences of domestic
consumers. For instance, U.S. beef demand largely consists of demand for
ground beef and steaks. Ground beef can, of course, be made from a wide
variety of qualities of lean but steak demand is mostly oriented towards
high-quality middle meat cuts.
It’s a fact that we’ll eat what we produce, so if we don’t produce
exactly what we prefer, the total value that consumers will offer the
industry will be adjusted down as prices are reduced in order to entice
consumers to purchase what we have, as opposed to what they really
prefer. This makes the role of exports, particularly exports of lower
valued products, especially important because it allows the industry to
adjust the product mix to more closely fit the demands of the domestic
market. Thus, the export of things like Select chucks and rounds to
Mexico is very complimentary to the U.S. market.
The import side seems harder to understand but it mostly relates to the
hamburger market. Ground beef production requires much additional lean
to mix with the trim resulting from steer and heifer slaughter in order
to make ground beef.
Of course, most any quality of lean is suitable and we utilize our cull
cows and bulls for this purpose. We don’t produce enough cull cow meat,
so additional lean must be added to the mix. We could (and do) use some
of the chucks and rounds that have relatively low demand to grind back
into hamburger. However, this is relatively expensive product since we
have paid to feed it in the feedlot.
It’s not very efficient to feed cattle to higher quality and then grind
the meat back into hamburger. This is particularly true when we can sell
the meat in an export market. Even at a relatively low value as a muscle
cut, these products have a higher value for export than for grinding.
Not only that, but there are sources of additional lean that are cheaper
and support the extremely competitive fast food industry in the U.S. It
is at the hamburger market level where the beef industry competes most
intensively with pork and poultry and even a fraction of a cent/pound
change in cost for ground beef affects competitiveness of the industry.
Lean beef imports sourced from Australian range beef, New Zealand dairy
beef or Canadian cull cows are mixed with steer and heifer trim, thereby
providing competitively priced ground beef and a way to utilize trim
product that would have almost no value otherwise.
-- OSU Cow-Calf Corner
--http://beefmagazine.com/cowcalfweekly/0611-why-does-us-import-export-beef
> In article <M_QTt.116892$Le.5...@fx13.iad>,
> this not a free market transaction, so you're an idiot to bring it up.
You are the person who brought up the basics of free markets, as
referenced: "They will have even less money to spend, and so not
increasing demand as fast as they increase supply."
Maybe you have difficulty understanding what you yourself posted.
> That you
> are unaware of subsidies to corn, potatoes, and cattle shows why you say such
> stupid things about politics.
Maybe you want to adopt the agitprop tactic of putting words and/or
ideas in other people's mouths. Show any indication of my being "unaware
of subsidies" in agriculture. The point that eluded you is that
"Enterprises like Mickey D's tend to buy the bulk of such products from
sources that have nothing to do with USDA subsidies."
To wit:
sources that have nothing to do with USDA subsidies."
Why Does The U.S. Both Import And Export Beef?
Jun. 11, 2010
The job of markets is to seek out the highest value for products
produced and encourage the most efficient use of resources to facilitate
that production, says Derrell Peel, Oklahoma State University (OSU)
Extension livestock marketing specialist.
The job of markets is to seek out the highest value for products
produced and encourage the most efficient use of resources to facilitate
that production, says Derrell Peel, Oklahoma State University (OSU)
Extension livestock marketing specialist. Keeping this in mind helps
explain current production and trade relationships in the U.S. beef
industry.
“The U.S. is the largest producer, the largest consumer, the
third-largest exporter and the largest importer of beef in the world. I
get many questions about U.S. beef trade and particularly why we need to
import beef,” he says.
The role of beef exports is obvious, on the one hand, in that it
represents an addition to domestic beef demand and thus expands the
total size of the market for U.S. beef. However, beef exports play a
more subtle role that’s often not well understood.
One of many complexities that make the beef industry so challenging is
the fact that the set of animals processed into meat results in a vast
array of different products of different qualities. The set of products
produced does not, in general, exactly match the preferences of domestic
consumers. For instance, U.S. beef demand largely consists of demand for
ground beef and steaks. Ground beef can, of course, be made from a wide
variety of qualities of lean but steak demand is mostly oriented towards
high-quality middle meat cuts.
It’s a fact that we’ll eat what we produce, so if we don’t produce
exactly what we prefer, the total value that consumers will offer the
industry will be adjusted down as prices are reduced in order to entice
consumers to purchase what we have, as opposed to what they really
prefer. This makes the role of exports, particularly exports of lower
valued products, especially important because it allows the industry to
adjust the product mix to more closely fit the demands of the domestic
market. Thus, the export of things like Select chucks and rounds to
Mexico is very complimentary to the U.S. market.
The import side seems harder to understand but it mostly relates to the
hamburger market. Ground beef production requires much additional lean
to mix with the trim resulting from steer and heifer slaughter in order
to make ground beef.
Of course, most any quality of lean is suitable and we utilize our cull
cows and bulls for this purpose. We don’t produce enough cull cow meat,
so additional lean must be added to the mix. We could (and do) use some
of the chucks and rounds that have relatively low demand to grind back
into hamburger. However, this is relatively expensive product since we
have paid to feed it in the feedlot.
It’s not very efficient to feed cattle to higher quality and then grind
the meat back into hamburger. This is particularly true when we can sell
the meat in an export market. Even at a relatively low value as a muscle
cut, these products have a higher value for export than for grinding.
Not only that, but there are sources of additional lean that are cheaper
and support the extremely competitive fast food industry in the U.S. It
is at the hamburger market level where the beef industry competes most
intensively with pork and poultry and even a fraction of a cent/pound
change in cost for ground beef affects competitiveness of the industry.
Lean beef imports sourced from Australian range beef, New Zealand dairy
beef or Canadian cull cows are mixed with steer and heifer trim, thereby
providing competitively priced ground beef and a way to utilize trim
product that would have almost no value otherwise.
-- OSU Cow-Calf Corner
--http://beefmagazine.com/cowcalfweekly/0611-why-does-us-import-export-beef
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 8:36:25 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 5:10 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <bf3d0$521fd565$414e828e$82...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> Hi, Idiot George. Rant some more.
Not a refutation.
> In article <bf3d0$521fd565$414e828e$82...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
Not a refutation.
Sancho Panza
Aug 29, 2013, 8:38:34 PM8/29/13
to
jon_banquer
Aug 29, 2013, 8:49:06 PM8/29/13
to
jon_banquer
Aug 29, 2013, 8:49:22 PM8/29/13
to
John B.
Aug 29, 2013, 8:52:54 PM8/29/13
to
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:58:44 -0500, Ignoramus15215
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.15215.invalid> wrote:
>Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
>
>With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
>and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
>can do their job better.
>
>"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
>teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
>of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
>the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
>
>As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
>trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
>better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
>computers, is constantly raised.
>
>The implications of this are disturbing.
>
>Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
>understand why they became redundant.
>
>i
This is not specifically an Obama thing. Nearly 30 years ago I met a
>Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
>
>With the continued development of computer technology, people of low
>and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that
>can do their job better.
>
>"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot
>teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people
>of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while
>the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
>
>As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this
>trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become
>better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by
>computers, is constantly raised.
>
>The implications of this are disturbing.
>
>Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not
>understand why they became redundant.
>
>i
bloke who was an engineer for a chip making company. He mentioned that
he had built plants in Korea, Malaysia and Indonesia, and that in a
few years they would be building a plant in the U.S. When I asked
about the high cost of labor in America he said "automation".
--
Cheers,
John B.
Message has been deleted
Harold Burton
Aug 29, 2013, 9:09:55 PM8/29/13
to
In article
<chine.bleu-40C12...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <M_QTt.116892$Le.5...@fx13.iad>,
> I don't know who is stupider . . .
Why do you crosspost to rec.crafts.metalworking? What does this thread
have to do with them?
Prove YOU'RE not stupid. Answer that simple question. Know you won't.
snicker
<chine.bleu-40C12...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <M_QTt.116892$Le.5...@fx13.iad>,
Why do you crosspost to rec.crafts.metalworking? What does this thread
have to do with them?
Prove YOU'RE not stupid. Answer that simple question. Know you won't.
snicker
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 9:18:06 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 6:07 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <kvonrh$lcc$1...@dont-email.me>, "Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net>
> How many of these high paying jobs are available?
Plenty. As nsf eddie has already shown, unemployment is lower in very
high skilled jobs requiring more education than in the higher skilled
blue collar trade jobs.
You don't know what you're talking about on this subject.
> In article <kvonrh$lcc$1...@dont-email.me>, "Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net>
Plenty. As nsf eddie has already shown, unemployment is lower in very
high skilled jobs requiring more education than in the higher skilled
blue collar trade jobs.
You don't know what you're talking about on this subject.
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 9:27:20 PM8/29/13
to
On 8/29/2013 7:58 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
> [economics-illiterate nonsense flushed]
The very thread title is preposterous and shows that the original poster
doesn't know what he's talking about.
The reason two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less
than $13.80 an hour is because those are the jobs that primarily
disappeared in the great recession (caused by CRA), and now those jobs
are coming back. Note that $13.80 is nearly double the current minimum
wage, and exceeds the amount proposed for a raised minimum wage.
"economicpopulist.org" - ha ha ha ha ha! Contrary to the irrational and
hyperemotional ranting of leftists, there is nothing intrinsically bad
about income inequality.
Larry Jaques
Aug 29, 2013, 10:19:04 PM8/29/13
to
>On 8/29/2013 18:00, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
><SNIP>
>
>>> i
>> The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
>> intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
>> tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
>> or their children's lifetimes.
>
>True. However, the youth of today has been conditioned into believing
>they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of
It's either that or head for the welfare roles. Both are strongly
><SNIP>
>
>>> i
>> The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
>> intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
>> tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
>> or their children's lifetimes.
>
>True. However, the youth of today has been conditioned into believing
>they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of
conditioned roles, depending upon the family's income level (and
somewhat along racial lines) and moral/ethical level.
>jobs. Unfortunately, as is the same for all the athletes who base their
>future on becoming a pro, there aren't enough openings are available.
>You must be VERY good at what you do, have a few connections, and have a
>backup plan in case you don't succeed in achieving the elite status you
>desire. Most do not.
about to be displaced and have never even considered a backup
profession or moneymaking hobby. Oy vay!
>> And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
>> than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
>> mechanics, etc.
>>
>
>True. Those trades cannot be outsourced.
--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Ignoramus15215
Aug 29, 2013, 10:31:27 PM8/29/13
to
make reliable toilets due to progress, that do not need fixing.
There is only so many toilet fixers that are needed.
As for digging ditches, I cannot see why a computer could not dig
ditches, or drive a OTR semi truck.
It is also natural that computers would make bad "IT geeks"
unemployed. I used to work for a financial firm in Chicago. I set up a
system of Linux servers, 120+, that did not need even one system
administrator. They did not need administrators, because they was
managed properly by scripts, as opposed to "IT geeks" walking from
computer to computer. We did not fire existing system admins, but did
not need to hire anybody either.
I managed them, which took at most 2 hours of my time per week. It was
great. Not the endless labor intensive drudgery it used to be.
i
Ignoramus15215
Aug 29, 2013, 10:33:52 PM8/29/13
to
Did you talk to any automation companies about setting up a robot to
do this work? I am thinking that you can spend $20k and get rid of
that employee or repurpose him or her.
i
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Aug 29, 2013, 11:00:55 PM8/29/13
to
Programmers and engineers can be, and are every day.
"The reason most people do not recognize an opportunity when they meet
it is because it usually goes around wearing overalls and looking like
Hard Work
"
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Aug 29, 2013, 11:02:56 PM8/29/13
to
down.
George Plimpton
Aug 29, 2013, 11:11:05 PM8/29/13
to
because they perform vastly better than cars of the past, but they're
also vastly more reliable and last far longer. Important stuff used to
break on cars all the time. Now very little ever breaks. I almost
never have to take my car (2008 VW) to a garage for repairs.
> There is only so many toilet fixers that are needed.
>
> As for digging ditches, I cannot see why a computer could not dig
> ditches, or drive a OTR semi truck.
owned in the 1920s and 1930s and very early 1940s. The current
farmer/owner - amazingly, there was only one between when my grandfather
sold the place in 1943 and when this man bought it - was telling me
about GPS-controlled combines that harvest fields of corn with
astonishing precision. There still is someone in the cab, but he's
watching Youtube videos or porn or maybe checking the price of corn
futures; not driving the machine.
>
> It is also natural that computers would make bad "IT geeks"
> unemployed. I used to work for a financial firm in Chicago. I set up a
> system of Linux servers, 120+, that did not need even one system
> administrator. They did not need administrators, because they was
> managed properly by scripts, as opposed to "IT geeks" walking from
> computer to computer. We did not fire existing system admins, but did
> not need to hire anybody either.
servers (formerly AS/400, iSeries, etc.) in Ventura county (CA) and
Indianapolis from my house in Pasadena. There was never any need
physically to lay hands on the machines. I sent operators and IBM techs
in to do that.
Now I work for another firm that has a dozen or so big IBM "i" boxes,
and the admins are not on site. The boxes are divided into probably
120-150 logical partitions (a form of virtualization), and there are
maybe half a dozen or so admins for the lot of them. The admins seldom
go into the data centers.
The history of automation is one of *increasing* productivity and thus
increasing the relative wages of the people doing the work. It is also
a history of eliminating tedious, ugly drudge work that no one really
wants to do.
You still see Luddite reactions, though. Recently I had the misfortune
to have to buy gasoline in Oregon. That benighted state, otherwise a
beautiful place, still outlaws self-service gasoline. An attendant
still has to pump the gas into your car - utterly stupid and unnecessary
and economically wasteful. The pumps even have the ATM/credit card
readers built into them, so there's no reason the driver couldn't pump
his own gas, but no. When the grouchy attendant came out to pump the
gas for my car, I asked if Oregon had ever considered repealing its
stupid, Luddite law. She huffed something about how they "valued" their
jobs, and it would never happen. I considered asking the cunt if she
ever used an ATM or perhaps the self-service checkout lines at the
grocery store, but I wasn't in the mood to pick a fight right then.
What a stupid cunt she was - probably a drug addict as well, doing
stupid donkey work like that.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Scout
Aug 30, 2013, 12:45:56 AM8/30/13
to
"Siri Cruise" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:chine.bleu-4FDAF...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <3731a$52200d02$414e828e$17...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>
>> The history of automation is one of *increasing* productivity and thus
>> increasing the relative wages of the people doing the work. It is also
>> a history of eliminating tedious, ugly drudge work that no one really
>> wants to do.
>
> Does automation increase or decrease the number of employees for the same
>
>> The history of automation is one of *increasing* productivity and thus
>> increasing the relative wages of the people doing the work. It is also
>> a history of eliminating tedious, ugly drudge work that no one really
>> wants to do.
>
> level
> of production?
Depends on the nature and extent of the automation. Generally speaking it
decreases the number of employees needed for the same production since that
is often a factor in why automation can be cost effective.
George Plimpton
Aug 30, 2013, 12:59:58 AM8/30/13
to
On 8/29/2013 9:15 PM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
Good for them. That means they have a good business model.
> On the backs of their lowpaying employees
No.
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The very thread title is preposterous and shows that the original poster
>> doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
> WallMart made $126.54 billion in profits last year.
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The very thread title is preposterous and shows that the original poster
>> doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
Good for them. That means they have a good business model.
> On the backs of their lowpaying employees
No.
George Plimpton
Aug 30, 2013, 1:06:16 AM8/30/13
to
On 8/29/2013 9:30 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <3731a$52200d02$414e828e$17...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>
> In article <3731a$52200d02$414e828e$17...@EVERESTKC.NET>,
> George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>
>> The history of automation is one of *increasing* productivity and thus
>> increasing the relative wages of the people doing the work. It is also
>> a history of eliminating tedious, ugly drudge work that no one really
>> wants to do.
>
>> increasing the relative wages of the people doing the work. It is also
>> a history of eliminating tedious, ugly drudge work that no one really
>> wants to do.
>
> Does automation increase or decrease the number of employees for the same level
> of production?
In which jobs?
> of production?
George Plimpton
Aug 30, 2013, 1:17:45 AM8/30/13
to
On 8/29/2013 9:15 PM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
> wrote:
>
>>
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The very thread title is preposterous and shows that the original poster
>> doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>> doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
> WallMart made $126.54 billion in profits last year.
>
> On the backs of their lowpaying employees, held to minimal hours to
>
> get out of paying any benefits
>
> Add up all the fucking profits of all corporations and it makes it
> hard for idiots like you to claim the companies are hurting
Straw man: No one claimed any companies are hurting.
Message has been deleted
PrecisionmachinisT
Aug 30, 2013, 1:56:37 AM8/30/13
to
"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:kvonrh$lcc$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> But minimum wage jobs are just passing jobs on a career path. If someone
> chooses to stick with a dead end job,
It's invariably because nothing better is available.
> But minimum wage jobs are just passing jobs on a career path. If someone
> chooses to stick with a dead end job,
> there's no reason for me to pay more
form of taxes for food stamps, section 8 housing and so forth, in order that
the already-rich can continue lining their pocket-books.
> because of their lack of initiative.
gobbling up dollar menu hamburgers on MY fucking tax dime, getting fat and
then stiffing me a once again by showing up at the emergency room with
clogged arteries.
George Plimpton
Aug 30, 2013, 1:59:55 AM8/30/13
to
On 8/29/2013 10:54 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <kvp82a$j0t$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Which would mean production would have to increase to employ the same number of
> people. That means demand would have to increase. But average wages in the US
> are dropping. So who will supply the demand?
You're looking at this wrongly and stupidly. You are mistaking the
prospects of those workers in an industry that sees increased automation
as typical of the prospects of workers in all industries.
You are an idiot. You have *NO* background, neither academic nor
practical, that enables you to comment authoritatively on this. Shut up.
> In article <kvp82a$j0t$1...@dont-email.me>,
> people. That means demand would have to increase. But average wages in the US
> are dropping. So who will supply the demand?
You're looking at this wrongly and stupidly. You are mistaking the
prospects of those workers in an industry that sees increased automation
as typical of the prospects of workers in all industries.
You are an idiot. You have *NO* background, neither academic nor
practical, that enables you to comment authoritatively on this. Shut up.
George Plimpton
Aug 30, 2013, 2:01:45 AM8/30/13
to
On 8/29/2013 10:56 PM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> "Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:kvonrh$lcc$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> But minimum wage jobs are just passing jobs on a career path. If someone
>> chooses to stick with a dead end job,
>
> It's invariably because nothing better is available.
It doesn't happen. People's skills increase, and to the extent they can
> "Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:kvonrh$lcc$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> But minimum wage jobs are just passing jobs on a career path. If someone
>> chooses to stick with a dead end job,
>
> It's invariably because nothing better is available.
do anything economically valuable at all, their wages increase.
>> there's no reason for me to pay more
>
> I don't even eat there, yet I'm probably paying even more than you, in the
> form of taxes for food stamps, section 8 housing and so forth, in order that
> the already-rich can continue lining their pocket-books.
>> because of their lack of initiative.
>
> No,
jon_banquer
Aug 30, 2013, 2:09:00 AM8/30/13
to
jon_banquer
Aug 30, 2013, 2:10:36 AM8/30/13
to
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:15:50 PM UTC-7, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> >The very thread title is preposterous and shows that the original poster
>
> >doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>
>
>
> >doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>
>
> WallMart made $126.54 billion in profits last year.
>
>
>
> On the backs of their lowpaying employees, held to minimal hours to
>
> get out of paying any benefits
>
>
>
> Add up all the fucking profits of all corporations and it makes it
>
> hard for idiots like you to claim the companies are hurting
Walmart is America's welfare queen. The Pimple is too stupid to understand this.
>
>
>
> On the backs of their lowpaying employees, held to minimal hours to
>
> get out of paying any benefits
>
>
>
> Add up all the fucking profits of all corporations and it makes it
>
> hard for idiots like you to claim the companies are hurting
jon_banquer
Aug 30, 2013, 2:14:40 AM8/30/13
to
The Pimple is far too stupid to understand this and actually thinks this is a good business model and what America should be all about.
The Pimple is a world class moron as well as a drunk.
PrecisionmachinisT
Aug 30, 2013, 2:31:56 AM8/30/13
to
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8c97ae7e-cabe-4daa...@googlegroups.com...
Who will supply the demand?
--(the rich can only eat so much cake)....
Stormin Mormon
Aug 30, 2013, 7:14:55 AM8/30/13
to
I believe that famine is far more likely with
the addition of government interference.
A properly working free market will have farmers
and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
Spending tax dollars to pay farmers not to farm,
is beyond absurd.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 8/29/2013 6:58 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <AVPTt.38438$Ic2....@fx12.iad>,
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>> give it to farmers.
>
> Do you believe famine is impossible even without government support?
>
the addition of government interference.
A properly working free market will have farmers
and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
Spending tax dollars to pay farmers not to farm,
is beyond absurd.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 8/29/2013 6:58 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <AVPTt.38438$Ic2....@fx12.iad>,
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>> give it to farmers.
>
> Do you believe famine is impossible even without government support?
>
Stormin Mormon
Aug 30, 2013, 7:16:43 AM8/30/13
to
Aren't many min wage jobs held by kids living
with parents? Kids who don't have a lot of
expenses, yet.
> to pay more because of their lack of initiative.
>
with parents? Kids who don't have a lot of
expenses, yet.
On 8/29/2013 8:09 PM, Wayne wrote:
>
>
>
> Minimum wage jobs are paid at what they are worth. That's the same at
> any job.
>
>
>
>
> Minimum wage jobs are paid at what they are worth. That's the same at
> any job.
>
> But minimum wage jobs are just passing jobs on a career path. If
> someone chooses to stick with a dead end job, there's no reason for me
> to pay more because of their lack of initiative.
>
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Aug 30, 2013, 8:15:00 AM8/30/13
to
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 07:14:55 -0400, Stormin Mormon
maintain a healthy long term agricultural (food producing) sector.
By "managed production" I mean a system like Canada's marketing
boards, with quotas andstructured pricing. More effective than
subsidies, and also more fair, as the consumer pais for it - not the
taxpayer.
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I believe that famine is far more likely with
>the addition of government interference.
>
>A properly working free market will have farmers
>and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
>
>Spending tax dollars to pay farmers not to farm,
>is beyond absurd.
>
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.
>
>On 8/29/2013 6:58 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> In article <AVPTt.38438$Ic2....@fx12.iad>,
>> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>>> give it to farmers.
>>
>> Do you believe famine is impossible even without government support?
>>
Government subsidies OR managed production are two options to
>I believe that famine is far more likely with
>the addition of government interference.
>
>A properly working free market will have farmers
>and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
>
>Spending tax dollars to pay farmers not to farm,
>is beyond absurd.
>
>.
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.
>
>On 8/29/2013 6:58 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> In article <AVPTt.38438$Ic2....@fx12.iad>,
>> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>>> give it to farmers.
>>
>> Do you believe famine is impossible even without government support?
>>
maintain a healthy long term agricultural (food producing) sector.
By "managed production" I mean a system like Canada's marketing
boards, with quotas andstructured pricing. More effective than
subsidies, and also more fair, as the consumer pais for it - not the
taxpayer.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Aug 30, 2013, 8:23:19 AM8/30/13
to
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 22:15:50 -0600, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
>wrote:
>
>>
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:27:20 -0700, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>The very thread title is preposterous and shows that the original poster
>>doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>>doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
>WallMart made $126.54 billion in profits last year.
>
>
>On the backs of their lowpaying employees, held to minimal hours to
>get out of paying any benefits
Worse yet-- each and every one of them was chained- literally- to
>get out of paying any benefits
their work stations 24 hours a day. They were not able to go to school
to get a degree, not allowed to start their own business, and not
allowed to get another different job.
They lived in huge pens with the rest of the employees, hosed down in
the morning, and fed in large troughs. After shifts ended, they were
bred to produce more Walmart working stock.
Just terrible.
[chuckle]
Stormin Mormon
Aug 30, 2013, 8:27:51 AM8/30/13
to
In the USA, we used to have something called a
free market. People did what paid the best. Now,
for example, ethanol for gasoline pays better than
corn for food. I expect that's due to government
interference.
I don't think the US Constitution gives the powers
for government regulation of farming.
free market. People did what paid the best. Now,
for example, ethanol for gasoline pays better than
corn for food. I expect that's due to government
interference.
I don't think the US Constitution gives the powers
for government regulation of farming.
On 8/30/2013 8:15 AM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>>>> give it to farmers.
>>>
>>>> I see no reason for the government to take money from the tax payer, and
>>>> give it to farmers.
>>>
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Ed Huntress
Aug 30, 2013, 9:48:01 AM8/30/13
to
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 06:36:59 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>In article <ga%Tt.330746$Su6....@fx16.iad>,
>Americans for some decades now. Productivity and profits are up, but those
>aren't being shared with the people who create them.
A few highlights about minimum wage workers from the BLS:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25
represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up
about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among
employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the
minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25
and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)
In 2012, 6 percent of women paid hourly rates had wages at or below
the prevailing federal minimum, compared with about 3 percent of men.
(See table 1.)
About 5 percent of White, Black, and Hispanic or Latino hourly
paid workers earned the federal minimum wage or less. Among Asian
workers paid at hourly rates, about 3 percent earned the minimum wage
or less. (See table 1.)
Among hourly paid workers age 16 and over, about 10 percent of
those who had less than a high school diploma earned the federal
minimum wage or less, compared with about 4 percent of those who had a
high school diploma (with no college) and about 2 percent of college
graduates. (See table 6.)
Never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely
than married workers to earn the federal minimum wage or less (about 8
percent versus about 2 percent). (See table 8.)
About 11 percent of part-time workers (persons who usually
work less than 35 hours per week) were paid the federal minimum wage
or less, compared with about 2 percent of full-time workers. (See
table 1 and table 9.)
By major occupational group, the highest proportion of hourly
paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage was in
service occupations, at about 12 percent. About three-fifths of
workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2012 were employed in
service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving related
jobs. (See table 4.)
The industry with the highest proportion of workers with
hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and
hospitality (about 19 percent). About half of all workers paid at or
below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the
vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of
these workers, tips and commissions supplement the hourly wages
received. (See table 5.)
The states with the highest proportions of hourly paid workers
earning at or below the federal minimum wage were Louisiana, Oklahoma,
Texas, and Idaho (all between 7 and 8 percent). The states with the
lowest percentages of hourly paid workers earning at or below the
federal minimum wage were Alaska, Oregon, California, Montana, and
Washington (all under 2 percent). It should be noted that some states
have minimum wage laws establishing standards that exceed the federal
minimum wage. (See table 2 and table 3.)
wrote:
>In article <ga%Tt.330746$Su6....@fx16.iad>,
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Aren't many min wage jobs held by kids living
>> with parents? Kids who don't have a lot of
>> expenses, yet.
>
>Generally speaking wages have climbed slower than the cost of living for most
>
>> Aren't many min wage jobs held by kids living
>> with parents? Kids who don't have a lot of
>> expenses, yet.
>
>Americans for some decades now. Productivity and profits are up, but those
>aren't being shared with the people who create them.
A few highlights about minimum wage workers from the BLS:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25
represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up
about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among
employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the
minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25
and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)
In 2012, 6 percent of women paid hourly rates had wages at or below
the prevailing federal minimum, compared with about 3 percent of men.
(See table 1.)
About 5 percent of White, Black, and Hispanic or Latino hourly
paid workers earned the federal minimum wage or less. Among Asian
workers paid at hourly rates, about 3 percent earned the minimum wage
or less. (See table 1.)
Among hourly paid workers age 16 and over, about 10 percent of
those who had less than a high school diploma earned the federal
minimum wage or less, compared with about 4 percent of those who had a
high school diploma (with no college) and about 2 percent of college
graduates. (See table 6.)
Never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely
than married workers to earn the federal minimum wage or less (about 8
percent versus about 2 percent). (See table 8.)
About 11 percent of part-time workers (persons who usually
work less than 35 hours per week) were paid the federal minimum wage
or less, compared with about 2 percent of full-time workers. (See
table 1 and table 9.)
By major occupational group, the highest proportion of hourly
paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage was in
service occupations, at about 12 percent. About three-fifths of
workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2012 were employed in
service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving related
jobs. (See table 4.)
The industry with the highest proportion of workers with
hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and
hospitality (about 19 percent). About half of all workers paid at or
below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the
vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of
these workers, tips and commissions supplement the hourly wages
received. (See table 5.)
The states with the highest proportions of hourly paid workers
earning at or below the federal minimum wage were Louisiana, Oklahoma,
Texas, and Idaho (all between 7 and 8 percent). The states with the
lowest percentages of hourly paid workers earning at or below the
federal minimum wage were Alaska, Oregon, California, Montana, and
Washington (all under 2 percent). It should be noted that some states
have minimum wage laws establishing standards that exceed the federal
minimum wage. (See table 2 and table 3.)
Ed Huntress
Aug 30, 2013, 9:53:09 AM8/30/13
to
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 06:45:51 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>In article <A8%Tt.330745$Su6.1...@fx16.iad>,
A properly working free market drives farmers and ranchers into
periodic cycles of bankrupcy. That's why we have price supports and a
variety of other ag subsidies.
Whether that matters to you depends a lot on how you feel about
family-owned agriculture and monopoly, and how deeply you are in
either ideological tank. And there is an endless supply of argument
and confounding argument about all of it.
>
>Without government support when farmers produce as much as they can, they
>produce a glut which forces their prices to drop and they lose money. Without a
>coordinated response their individual responses are to grow more further
>depressing prices. This can lead to overfarming and catastrophe if the weather
>adds further stress.
>
>See also the farm crisis that proceeded the Oklahoma dust bowl and how that was
>partly responsible for the dust bowl. See also that due to government
>interference there has been no such crisis since then anywhere in the US. Or
>anywhere where the government interferes with agriculture. However in
>libertarian paradise like parts of Africa famines are a regular occurence.
Right you are.
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
>In article <A8%Tt.330745$Su6.1...@fx16.iad>,
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe that famine is far more likely with
>> the addition of government interference.
>>
>> A properly working free market will have farmers
>> and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
>
>I see. So you have no idea how a free market works.
>
>> I believe that famine is far more likely with
>> the addition of government interference.
>>
>> A properly working free market will have farmers
>> and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
>
A properly working free market drives farmers and ranchers into
periodic cycles of bankrupcy. That's why we have price supports and a
variety of other ag subsidies.
Whether that matters to you depends a lot on how you feel about
family-owned agriculture and monopoly, and how deeply you are in
either ideological tank. And there is an endless supply of argument
and confounding argument about all of it.
>
>Without government support when farmers produce as much as they can, they
>produce a glut which forces their prices to drop and they lose money. Without a
>coordinated response their individual responses are to grow more further
>depressing prices. This can lead to overfarming and catastrophe if the weather
>adds further stress.
>
>See also the farm crisis that proceeded the Oklahoma dust bowl and how that was
>partly responsible for the dust bowl. See also that due to government
>interference there has been no such crisis since then anywhere in the US. Or
>anywhere where the government interferes with agriculture. However in
>libertarian paradise like parts of Africa famines are a regular occurence.
Right you are.
--
Ed Huntress
Joe Gwinn
Aug 30, 2013, 9:55:18 AM8/30/13
to
In article <n5nv195ku00e9aq3n...@4ax.com>, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:56:32 -0400, Steve Walker
> <fusi...@frontierbrain.com> wrote:
>
> >On 8/29/2013 18:00, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> ><SNIP>
> >they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of
> >jobs. Unfortunately, as is the same for all the athletes who base their
> >future on becoming a pro, there aren't enough openings are available.
> >You must be VERY good at what you do, have a few connections, and have a
> >backup plan in case you don't succeed in achieving the elite status you
> >desire. Most do not.
>
> Myth. The jobs that have consistently low unemployment numbers are the
> "very high paying, non physical labor type of jobs."
>
> Here are the actual unemployment figures for the jobs mentioned, from
> a Wall Street Journal analysis of Bureau of Labor Stastics figures
> from 2012:
>
> Electrician 11.2%
> Plumber 10.2%
> Millright 6.9%
> Automotive mechanics 7.9%
>
> The national average at that time was 7.8%. Here are the geek jobs
> mentioned above:
>
> Computer scientists and systems analysts 3.6%
> Computer and IT managers 3.2%
>
> And so it goes. Computer hardware engineers, 1.9%. Biomedical
> engineers, 0.4%. Brick and stone masons, 18.8%.
>
> The kids have been "conditioned" right.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/apejd2o
This data goes back to 2011. During the current recession, the
building trades got hit pretty hard. Engineering is less cyclical.
One big dip was after the Soviet Union died: The engineering trade
rags were full of doom-and-gloom, and letters from people emigrating to
Australia (which at the time had an open immigration policy for
high-skill people). The nationwide engineering unemployment rate had
quadrupled! -- it went from about 1% to about 4%.
To fill out the picture, it's useful to also know the number of people
in the various job categories. For instance, there has to be a factor
of ten more electricians than electrical engineers.
Joe Gwinn
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:56:32 -0400, Steve Walker
> <fusi...@frontierbrain.com> wrote:
>
> >On 8/29/2013 18:00, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >>> i
> >> The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
> >> intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
> >> tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
> >> or their children's lifetimes.
> >
> >True. However, the youth of today has been conditioned into believing
> >>> i
> >> The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower
> >> intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and
> >> tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes,
> >> or their children's lifetimes.
> >
> >they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of
> >jobs. Unfortunately, as is the same for all the athletes who base their
> >future on becoming a pro, there aren't enough openings are available.
> >You must be VERY good at what you do, have a few connections, and have a
> >backup plan in case you don't succeed in achieving the elite status you
> >desire. Most do not.
> >
> >>
> >> And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
> >> than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
> >> mechanics, etc.
> >>
> >
> >True. Those trades cannot be outsourced.
> >>
> >> And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there
> >> than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights,
> >> mechanics, etc.
> >>
> >
>
> Myth. The jobs that have consistently low unemployment numbers are the
> "very high paying, non physical labor type of jobs."
>
> Here are the actual unemployment figures for the jobs mentioned, from
> a Wall Street Journal analysis of Bureau of Labor Stastics figures
> from 2012:
>
> Electrician 11.2%
> Plumber 10.2%
> Millright 6.9%
> Automotive mechanics 7.9%
>
> The national average at that time was 7.8%. Here are the geek jobs
> mentioned above:
>
> Computer scientists and systems analysts 3.6%
> Computer and IT managers 3.2%
>
> And so it goes. Computer hardware engineers, 1.9%. Biomedical
> engineers, 0.4%. Brick and stone masons, 18.8%.
>
> The kids have been "conditioned" right.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/apejd2o
This data goes back to 2011. During the current recession, the
building trades got hit pretty hard. Engineering is less cyclical.
One big dip was after the Soviet Union died: The engineering trade
rags were full of doom-and-gloom, and letters from people emigrating to
Australia (which at the time had an open immigration policy for
high-skill people). The nationwide engineering unemployment rate had
quadrupled! -- it went from about 1% to about 4%.
To fill out the picture, it's useful to also know the number of people
in the various job categories. For instance, there has to be a factor
of ten more electricians than electrical engineers.
Joe Gwinn
Ed Huntress
Aug 30, 2013, 10:08:46 AM8/30/13
to
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:55:18 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>
wrote:
That's data reported in Jan. 2013, from employment figures for 2012.
> During the current recession, the
>building trades got hit pretty hard. Engineering is less cyclical.
During any recession, building trades are almost ALWAYS hit hard. They
are highly unstable jobs, depending a great deal on home sales and
business building investment rates -- which swing like a yo-yo.
>
>One big dip was after the Soviet Union died: The engineering trade
>rags were full of doom-and-gloom, and letters from people emigrating to
>Australia (which at the time had an open immigration policy for
>high-skill people). The nationwide engineering unemployment rate had
>quadrupled! -- it went from about 1% to about 4%.
Engineering and related jobs are much more stable than building
trades, but anything related to manufacturing is also vulnerable to
rates of consumer sales.
>
>To fill out the picture, it's useful to also know the number of people
>in the various job categories. For instance, there has to be a factor
>of ten more electricians than electrical engineers.
>
>Joe Gwinn
That's easy to determine, Joe. The Bureau of Labor Statistics produces
vast amounts of data, which I've used in my research for close to 40
years.
--
Ed Huntress
wrote:
> During the current recession, the
>building trades got hit pretty hard. Engineering is less cyclical.
are highly unstable jobs, depending a great deal on home sales and
business building investment rates -- which swing like a yo-yo.
>
>One big dip was after the Soviet Union died: The engineering trade
>rags were full of doom-and-gloom, and letters from people emigrating to
>Australia (which at the time had an open immigration policy for
>high-skill people). The nationwide engineering unemployment rate had
>quadrupled! -- it went from about 1% to about 4%.
trades, but anything related to manufacturing is also vulnerable to
rates of consumer sales.
>
>To fill out the picture, it's useful to also know the number of people
>in the various job categories. For instance, there has to be a factor
>of ten more electricians than electrical engineers.
>
>Joe Gwinn
vast amounts of data, which I've used in my research for close to 40
years.
--
Ed Huntress
Stormin Mormon
Aug 30, 2013, 10:09:36 AM8/30/13
to
And when the prices drop, farmers go into other products.
I have more confidence in the American free market, than
I do in socialized command economies.
As to Africa, isn't that the place where the skinnies on
jeeps with AK-47 steal relief supplies at gunpoint? And
where tribes use famine as a weapon of war?
On 8/30/2013 9:45 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <A8%Tt.330745$Su6.1...@fx16.iad>,
I have more confidence in the American free market, than
I do in socialized command economies.
As to Africa, isn't that the place where the skinnies on
jeeps with AK-47 steal relief supplies at gunpoint? And
where tribes use famine as a weapon of war?
On 8/30/2013 9:45 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <A8%Tt.330745$Su6.1...@fx16.iad>,
> Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe that famine is far more likely with
>> the addition of government interference.
>>
>> A properly working free market will have farmers
>> and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
>
>
>> I believe that famine is far more likely with
>> the addition of government interference.
>>
>> A properly working free market will have farmers
>> and ranchers who produce as much as they can.
>
> I see. So you have no idea how a free market works.
>
>
Message has been deleted
George Plimpton
Aug 30, 2013, 10:16:18 AM8/30/13
to
> Who will supply the demand?
Say's Law answers that.
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