Loctite help

[Ivan Vegvary]

Installing valve seals on 1991 Mazda B2600. Engind still in truck.
Valve guides are oddball size and the best I could find (Felpro) are seals that are 0.005" too large in diameter to go around the guides.
Picture an upside down cap approximately 0.5" in inside diameter and about 0.5" tall. Said cap should fit snugly on the valve guide, with the valve exiting through a seal in the top (0.274" valve).
Since the cap is 0.005" larger than the seal, I have 0.0025" to make up with glue all the way around. I could cut shim stock, place symmetrically, and shove the seal thereon.
Would any of the glues (Loctite or otherwise) take up a 0.0025" gap?

Any advise or other workarounds would be greatly appreciated.
Also, if there is a product available, any clever ways of de-greasing the guides? Not a lot of room to work, and the cleaning should not get mixed up with the motor oil.

Thanks,
Ivan Vegvary

[dca...@krl.org]

On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 5:39:07 PM UTC-5, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Installing valve seals on 1991 Mazda B2600. Engind still in truck.
> Valve guides are oddball size and the best I could find (Felpro) are seals that are 0.005" too large in diameter to go around the guides.
>

> Thanks,
> Ivan Vegvary


I am easily confused. I thought that all Mazda small trucks were rebadged Ford Rangers. And as such ought to have all parts readily available.

Dan

[Clare Snyder]

It's a SEAL. You can't glue it. Get the right sized seals.Part
Number: SS72680-1 or Part Number: SS45588 available from Autozone.

[Clare Snyder]

Early Mazdas were Mazdas, also sold s Ford Couriers.

[Ivan Vegvary]

> It's a SEAL. You can't glue it. Get the right sized seals.Part
> Number: SS72680-1 or Part Number: SS45588 available from Autozone.

This is a rebuilt head and somebody installed fatter valve guides. Already purchased sets from Autozone and Rockauto. They are all 0.010" too small in diameter.
Here is a decent photo:

https://www.google.com/search?q=valve+seals&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj50Zmh5IjYAhUE2GMKHbY9BV0Q_AUIDCgD&biw=1641&bih=804#imgrc=BP7PR8EuVGxf-M:

It's simply matter of fixing the shell part (no sealing function) to the valve guide. All the function (sealing) happens at the rubber, spring reinforced ring. Hell, I could drill and pin it. Maybe cut a groove into the guide with a dremel and stake the thin shell into the groove. The thin copper shell cup that fits over the guide does not have to seal, only hold on and not go on an up-and-down ride with the valve.

Any suitable glues? BTW the cap (shell part) seems to be about 0.010" copper.

Thanks again.

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:39:02 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
<ivanv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Given the heavy-duty requirements of the seal, the temperature ranges
at which it will operate, and the massively oily enviro, I doubt
shims, etc. will work.

Ask a Mazda engine specialist at the local Mazda dealer or Mazda club
for help. They'll know. Clare will likely pipe up, too.

--
A sound mind in a sound body is a short but full
description of a happy state in this world.
--John Locke

[Terry Coombs]

  Ivan , I assume you have this head disassembled . I have a small
device that has a pilot that fits into a cartridge case neck and carries
a lathe bit that shaves a little off the outside , to make the case neck
a uniform thickness . Would a device like this work to shave a few
thousandths off the outside diameter of those guides ? Then you could
use one of those seal sets that are just under-size .

  --

  Snag

[Clare Snyder]

is it possible to swage or stretch the shell? or shave/machine the
oversize guides in place? Assuming bronze guides? Make a piloted
cutter that runs in the guide and cuts the outside of the guide to
accurate size so stock seals fit next time too? Or "resize" the
oversize guide by squeezing it over a mandrel?
If not, red high temp silicone will hold them to the guide.

I had originally understood they were too big for the valve, not the
guide. Given it is the guide, even loose they will work like a "cap"
or "umbrella" seal like GM used to use, shedding MOST of the oil.

I'd go for permatex red high temp silicone if I didn't have the
capability to modify the seals or guides.

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:47:14 -0600, Terry Coombs <snag...@msn.com>
wrote:

exactly.

[wws]

I would use a spring clamp, any rtv or glue in the oil could lead to blocked passages.

[et...@whidbey.com]

Try Loctite 638. It is good for gaps up to .01". It resists hot motor
oil well. Use brake cleaner to degrease the valve guides. Spray the
cleaner on a rag and wipe the guides clean. Same for cleaning the seal
cup. Don't get the seal itself wet with the cleaner. 638 is permanent,
so make sure you really want the seal cups glued on.
Eric

[Leon Fisk]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:11:01 -0800
et...@whidbey.com wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:47:28 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
><ivanv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>

> [...]

>>
>>This is a rebuilt head and somebody installed fatter valve guides. Already purchased sets from Autozone and Rockauto. They are all 0.010" too small in diameter.
>>Here is a decent photo:
>>
>>https://www.google.com/search?q=valve+seals&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj50Zmh5IjYAhUE2GMKHbY9BV0Q_AUIDCgD&biw=1641&bih=804#imgrc=BP7PR8EuVGxf-M:
>>
>>It's simply matter of fixing the shell part (no sealing function) to the valve guide. All the function (sealing) happens at the rubber, spring reinforced ring. Hell, I could drill and pin it. Maybe cut a groove into the guide with a dremel and stake the thin shell into the groove. The thin copper shell cup that fits over the guide does not have to seal, only hold on and not go on an up-and-down ride with the valve.
>>
>>Any suitable glues? BTW the cap (shell part) seems to be about 0.010" copper.
>>
>>Thanks again.
>Try Loctite 638. It is good for gaps up to .01". It resists hot motor
>oil well. Use brake cleaner to degrease the valve guides. Spray the
>cleaner on a rag and wipe the guides clean. Same for cleaning the seal
>cup. Don't get the seal itself wet with the cleaner. 638 is permanent,
>so make sure you really want the seal cups glued on.
>Eric

No knowledge of use but the spec page looks promising for what
you want to do:

http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797714153473

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

[Gunner Asch]

Ivan...that should be..should be the Ford Ranger 2.6 engine. Those
seals should be easily availble.


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[Gunner Asch]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:08:41 -0500, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

Mazdas were superior trucks to the existing Ford products..so Ford
entered into a relationship where they rebadged Mazdas with Ford
emblems.

[Gunner Asch]

Measure the diameter and go to just about any engine shop and have
them order you the right ones. They obviously were "stock" from some
source.

Powerhouse in Bakersfield, is where I get most of my stuff..odd or
standard...Im sure there are similar places in your neck of the woods

http://www.enginekits.com/

The problem with "gluing them in" is thermal dynamics.

Gunner

[Jim Wilkins]

"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:25n53dt98mcbl2gn0...@4ax.com...

Maybe not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_G_engine

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:56:35 -0800 (PST), wws <wsti...@gmail.com>
wrote:

RTVsealer is used by the manufacturer instead of gaskets - just have
touse it properly.

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:23:48 -0800, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

The courier was made BEFORE ford made their own small pickups - Ford
rebadged the Mazda as a courier. When ford designed the Ranger,
Mazda's volume went WAY down and it didn't make sense for Mazda to
continue building their own (inferior) small truck, so THEY rebadged
the Ford designed Ranger as their B Series.

The Ranger was a FAR superior truck compared to the Courier in SO many
ways.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:b4u53dtq8p13n81ur...@4ax.com...

My 1991 Ranger has the Ford-built 2.3l I-4 engine. According to the
VIN decoding section of the factory shop manual the other engine
options were Ford 2.9l, 3.0l or 4.0l V-6's. It does have a Mazda M5OD
transmission.
-jsw

[Clare Snyder]

The "mazda" tranny is about the only "mazda" part in any Ranger

[Jim Wilkins]

"Clare Snyder" <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

news:75663dpa0jet9oplv...@4ax.com...

The Ranger Wiki states that they were sold as B-series Mazdas
beginning in 1994.

[Larry Jaques]

<gulp> That's a $178 bottle of goo he's using in the picture.

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 2:39:07 PM UTC-8, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Installing valve seals ...

> Since the cap is 0.005" larger than the seal, I have 0.0025" to make up with glue all the way around.

My first thought: high-temperature heatshrink tubing, to bulk up the OD of the
head your cap goes onto. There's heatsnrink made of teflon (PTFE)

<http://cdn.techflex.com/assets/pdfs/catalog/hfa.pdf>

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:20:30 -0500, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>

IIRC, the Courier had interference valves, so when the timing chain
went, it at half the valves in the head, and ate many a head and
pistons. The engine guy at Dixon Ford in the early '70s hated them.
(That was a whole 'nother life ago!)

[Clare Snyder]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:59:20 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Like I said - Mazda gave up on building small trucks whenFord stopped
selling them as Couriers - and started selling ford designed and
ford-built rangers rebadged as Mazdas. The Mazda 5 speed is used in
the Ranger and the F150 - the only "good" part from the Mazda parts
bin.